Obama "Anti-Semitic Jew-Hater"

Israeli Religious extremists go the gutter.

 

Far-right wing activists launch anti-Obama campaign
Abe Selig , THE JERUSALEM POST

Chanting "No, you can't!" and waving signs bearing messages in a similar vein, nearly 200 people held a demonstration outside the US Consulate on the capital's Rehov Agron on Wednesday evening, protesting the growing American pressure to stop construction in West Bank settlements.

Speakers at the event included MK Michael Ben-Ari (National Union) and Esther Pollard, the wife of convicted spy Jonathan Pollard. All brought a similar message - that the American government does not have the right to dictate where Jews may or may not live within the Land of Israel.
"Mr. Obama, we started demonstrating 16 years ago," said Rabbi Shalom Gold, the founder of Kehillat Zichron Ya'acov in Jerusalem's Har Nof neighborhood, alluding to the early days of the Oslo Accords. "You were in your '30s and you probably didn't know the first thing about Eretz Yisrael... but we're part of God's divine plan, we're here and we're staying here!"

"Be a friend of Israel, but even if you won't be, we have the greatest ally in the world," he said, pointing to the heavens.

Esther Pollard followed, telling the crowd that her message to the US president was that "your problem isn't with Prime Minister Netanyahu, nor is it with the People of Israel. Your problem, Mr. President, is with the almighty God of Israel!"

The protest continued for more than two hours, as the demonstrators ebbed and flowed and consular staff across the street came out to watch the goings-on.

The protest was only a part of a wider campaign launched by activists on Wednesday, in which they will try to counter the American stance by portraying Obama as an anti-Semite whose policies would harm the Jewish state.

Over the coming days, activists plan to hang posters throughout the country of Obama wearing a keffiyeh, flanked by the words, "Anti-Semite," and "Jew-hater," written in red in both English and Hebrew. Another poster published by the campaign shows Obama shaking hands with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad against a background of a mushroom cloud from a nuclear explosion.

The Jewish National Front, which is backing the protests, said in a statement: "We decided to launch a campaign against the president of the United States and to say that Barack Hussein Obama is bad for the Jews."

"From the moment that he entered the White House, we have been feeling anti-Semitism and hatred toward Israel," the statement continued. "We have a number of plans, among which are demonstrations in the US and protests in front of the consulate and homes of the ambassadors."
Later Wednesday evening, Peace Now issued a statement harshly criticizing the campaign, saying the anti-Obama posters and demonstrations would cause considerable damage to the friendship between the US and Israel.

"The radical Right is damaging our strategic alliance with the US, and is embarrassing Israel in front of the world," the organization said. "[Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu] must renounce this campaign of the settlers at once, and act decisively against the hilltop youth and those who are breaking the law in the settlements."

Jerusalem Post staff contributed to this report.

Comments

[really?]

So you would define support for Iran's nuclear program as "Jew-loving" ?

[Nigritude Ultramarine]

Forgive the thread jack, but I just saw something interesting. You know how a criminal was killed by skila? He was given an intoxicating drink and pushed off a cliff. It looks like the Phoenicians thought of it first:

Elderly people who could no longer care for themselves and criminals "were intoxicated with the sardonic herb and then killed by dropping from a high rock or by beating to death," according to the new study.

Complete article here:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/06/090602-smiling-death-potion.html

[MisterApikoros]

Since when does Obama support Iran's nuclear program, really Archie?

[Yoel B]

In Cairo, President Obama spoke of Palestinian ties to the land and their "resistance" but just disapproved of their violent tactics.

He also predicated the USA's ties to Israel and Israel's legitimacy itself on oppression and the Holocaust:

the aspiration for a Jewish homeland is rooted in a tragic history that cannot be denied. Around the world, the Jewish people were persecuted for centuries, and anti-Semitism in Europe culminated in an unprecedented Holocaust...

Other than the fact that Obama just accepted two of the main themes of Palestinian propaganda for the last sixty years ("the Jews' sole claim to the Land is their having been killed in Europe" and "we're even bigger victims") and led up to it by

•telling Israel that if it doesn't agree to indefensible borders he'll give the Iranians enough time to get a bomb before he does anything to stop them
•serially and publicly disrespecting the UK and Israel, the 2 main historic "special relationships" the USA has had after having a State Department official (AFAIK unrepudiated) state that the USA should have no "special relationship" with any nation
•promulgating the completely spurious "7 million Muslims in the US" statistic -- that on top of calling the US "one of the biggest Muslim countries in the world"

he's a great friend to Israel. Even Bush never said anything that awful and when he did, everybody tended to write it off. But Obama is the Great Orator.

Oh, well, one good thing: Obama's continued popularity among American Jews helps disprove the old antisemitic canard that Jews are smarter than everybody else.

[ML]

Yoel B., you must be one of those "not smarter" ones.

The only thing he's asked of Israel at this point is to stop expanding the settlements. He and the rest of the world. The Israeli far right are the only ones for this. DO YOU really support increased expansion of the West Bank settlements? At the cost of what?

[MisterApikoros]

Most Israelis are not in favor of expanding the settlements, either.

If I were in the IDF, I'd be a pretty pissed off soldier if I were called upon to ensure the safety of those who (1) in large part, don't support the State of Israel, (2) are exempt from paying taxes, and (3) are exempt from serving in the Israeli Defense Force because they are "bochurim."

IMHO, they call all go to hell.

[itchiemayer]

Yoel B., you must be one of those "not smarter" ones. So sayeth ML, and I totally disagree. Very accurate comments by Yoelly!

[Yoel B]

Ah yes. The "settlements."

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has issued an unprecedented statement clarifying President Barack Obama’s demands for Israel to stop expanding Jewish communities in areas it acquired following the 1967 Six-Day War, including Jerusalem.

[snip]

There are now 128 Jewish communities in these areas, with a population of almost 300,000 Jews.Mrs. Clinton explained President Obama demands that there should be no expansion in these communities for the purpose of “natural growth.”

That would include an American demand to stop construction of kindergartens, schools and housing for young couples.

“West Bank maps” issued by the United Nations also include 18 Jewish neighborhoods inside the municipal boundaries of Jerusalem, in areas inside the city that Israel formally annexed after the 1967 war.

One of the Jerusalem neighborhoods resettled by Jews after the 1967 war is the Old City of Jerusalem, which hosts the Temple Mount, the holiest place in the world to the Jewish people.

Ms. Clinton’s press spokesman was asked if President Obama’s demand to halt expansion of “West Bank Jewish communities” included a demand to stop expansion of Jewish neighborhoods in Jerusalem.

The answer was affirmative. The U.S. State Department demands that Israel limit Jewish growth in these areas of Jerusalem, “whose status remains to be determined” in negotiations.

http://thebulletin.us/articles/2009/05/29/top_stories/doc4a1f3b3710e19186990802.txt

[justayid]

Yoel B

In fairness, centuries of persecution does not mean "only" the Shoah. It could also mean persecution in muslim lands, from the Almoravids right up to the Baghdad pogrom of 1943. Of course he didnt say that in a make nice speech - its OUR job to say that (and of course his spinners have spent the last day telling the press that Obama also is aware of historic Jewish ties to the land)

OTOH - re settlements. Yeah, only the far right is supportive of the overall settlement enterprise. I think a good piece of the center is supportive of modest housing construction in existing settlements west of the security fence to accommodate natural growth. Even if you are not, the question becomes if a confrontation between the US and Israel is good for the peace process - Jackson Diel, or the Wash Post, thinks that Abbas may be getting the idea that he can sit back and wait for Obama to give him peace on a platter, and so does not need to make any concessions of his own.

[Yoel B]

OK, Obama recognizes a Palestinian national claim to the Land, then say "Jews were oppressed, that's why they got the Land, but now they're oppressors and the Palestinians are Oppressed and Resisting." This differs from what Fatah et al and the Hamas have historically said how? And Israel shouldn't "confront" this?

Not to mention his conceding the legitimacy of Iran's "nuclear aspirations."

[Yochanan Lavie]

Mr. A: Most settlements are national religious or secular and army serving, but I agree with you about chareidi settlements.

Obama is not an anti-Semite, but he is naive about the power of diplomacy to heal and he is also misinformed. His support of "peaceful" Iranian nukes is mind-numbing. He is becoming increasingly Carteresque. He is an amateur politician who became president too soon.

As always, I support some version of the Alon Plan, along with giving the Pals some of the Arab majority areas in the Galil in exchange for greater J'lem and parts of Shomron. But only when they're ready for peace. They're not there yet.

[justayid]

"OK, Obama recognizes a Palestinian national claim to the Land, then say "Jews were oppressed, that's why they got the Land, but now they're oppressors and the Palestinians are Oppressed and Resisting." This differs from what Fatah et al and the Hamas have historically said how? "

He did not say the Jews are oppressors. He was vague about the causes of Palestinian suffering, deliberately so. He also specifically called on Hamas to recognize Israel, and called on the arab states to go further than they have.

Note well, I do NOT like everything in the speech, (its dissing of democracy promotion, its focus on a "muslim world" rather than individual states, the sheer amount of attention to Israel and the Pals vs other issues) but its hard to get that out when folks are exaggerating like that.

[justayid]

"As always, I support some version of the Alon Plan, along with giving the Pals some of the Arab majority areas in the Galil in exchange for greater J'lem and parts of Shomron. But only when they're ready for peace. They're not there yet. "

the allon plan assumed a jordan option. The jordan option isnt real. we are talking a West bank statelet, not a hashemite kingdom on both banks of the Jordan, and that means greater territorial continuity is needed for the statelet than Allon envisioned. And handing over the Gallilee villages is toxic, as it suggests a desire to have an Israel with no arabs, which the rest of the world just doesnt understand.

And while I am skeptical that an agreement can be reached in the next four years, its clear that deferring any discussion of final agreement issues "sine die" stirs in the Pals the fear that we are NOT serious about reaching a final agreement that leaves them not under israeli sovereignty, and it DOES undermine anyone in Pal society who is not for violence.

[MisterApikoros]

YL:

I agree with the Alon Plan, always had. This would be in return for the outlawing of Hamas and Hezbollah.

[Yoel B]

Obama continues the unfortunate American fantasy that there are no other real players.
Amir Taheri's excellent "Showdown in Lebanon" in today's WSJ http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124416321780087
fleshes out the picture a bit.
Iran's goal: backing Hamas in Gaza, destabilizing Fatah, and consolidating Hizballah control of Israel's entire border with Lebanon, in coordination with Iran's clients in Syria. Then a constant rain of rockets whose launchers are under Iran's nuclear umbrella.
Obama just legitimized Iran's nuclear ambitions.

And justayid: True, Obama didn't explicitly call Israel an oppressor. He didn't have to. He talked about Palestinian "resistance." V'hamevin yavin.

[justayid]

Is resistance always against an "opressor" with the connotations of that word? we speak of Indians resisting the Raj, yet Britain was our brave democratic ally, we honor churchill, etc, etc.

Are we suggesting that the administration of the territories is more benevolent than the Raj was? Its more justified (London wasn't in artillery range of Calcutta) but more benevolent to the folks who lived there?

[Choni Davidowitz]

I maintain that Obama is nothing but God's "messanger" to intice millions of Jews to leave the exile and come to their true Home.
Those that refuse will perish as in the first redemption from Egypt. (80% of Jews in Egypt perished in the plague of darkness because they refused to leave)

[MisterApikoros]

I live in New Jersey. I'm not living in exile, unless you consider that I used to live in Manhattan, and was "exiled" by ridiculous housing prices there.

I would never, ever, make aliyah to a theocracy, and where my wife wouldn't be considered a citizen unless she converted under the auspices of fundamentalist theocrats who believe the universe was created about 15 billion years after it actually was.

A moot point, of course, as we're not moving to Israel and because my wife is a good Christian and would never convert.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Apologies to Smokey Robinson, and Obama (just for fun):

Spoken:

When I became of age Obama called me to his side
He said, "Bibi, you're prime minister now, pretty soon Iran will tan your hide".

Sings:

And then he said -
'Just because you've become a head of state now
(state, now)
There's still some things that aren't too great now
(Bibi, nu)
Before you ask for us for some planes now
(My son)
'Keep 'em grounded for as long as you can now'

Obama told me, 'You'd better not bomb Iran'
(Bomb Iran) a whoa-yeah
You'd better (uh-uh) not bomb Iran
(Bomb Iran)

Uh-uh-uh

''There's some things that I want you to know now'
(Uh-huh-ooo)
'A just as sure as Dinnerjob's gonna blow now'
(Uh-huh-ooo)
'The tyrants come and the tyrants go now'
(Uh-huh-ooo)
Before you bust a cap in their ass, nu

Obama told me, 'You'd better not bomb Iran'
(bomb Iran) whoa-yeah
You'd better (uh-uh) not bomb Iran
(bomb Iran)

'You gotta get your wife a burqa son'
'Don't be sad, being a dhimmi is fun'
'72 virgins come a dime a dozen'
'Only a martyr us gonna get their true lovin'
(Uh-uh-ooo)

'Before you make a treaty and say 'I do, now'
(Uh-huh)
'make sure the Palestineans love you now'
Obama told me, ('you'd better not bomb Iran)

Instrumental

Oy-vey-vey-vey

(ooooy)
'Don't try to get yourself Jerusalem son'
it's a settlement like any one'
(any one, any one)
Holy Cities come a shekel a dozen
Tel Aviv's the one that's gonna give ya our lovin'
(Uh-huh-ooo)

'Before you make a vow and say, 'I am a [proud] Jew' now' (uh-uh)
'Make sure that you won't get screwed now(uh-huh)
'Make sure that we love what you do now' (uh-uh)
'I'd hate to see you lowerin' the white and blue now'

Obama told me, 'You'd better not bomb Iran'
(bomb Iran)

Uh-uh you gotta let the first one get you'
(don't bomb)
Oh no, cuz I don't wanna see pre-emptive bitchin'
(Uh-uh, 'before you enter the fight'
A yeah-yeah 'make sure we say it's alright'

Uh-huh, 'before you head the land my son'
'Understand my son'
'Don't be a man my son'
'You're in my can my son'

FADES-
I hate it...don't bomb Iran

[MisterApikoros]

A little halaichic arithmetic for you, Choni Baloney:

The great "sages" claim that 5 million Jews fled Egypt and wandered in the desert. If that represented only 20% of the total, then 20 million Jews lived in Eqypt before Exodus. That only overstates the actual number 100-fold.

[justayid]

choni,

Wouldnt he have to make Jewish life in teh US worse in order to achieve that? how has he done so?

[MisterApikoros]

Correction: 25 million.

[dovidk]

To Choni. Stop bullying people to follow your life-style, making aliyah by threatening them with death. You are like the taliban.

[radical feminist]

The only thing he's asked of Israel at this point is to stop expanding the settlements.

You do know that most of that expansion is Jerusalem right?

[radical feminist]

I maintain that Obama is nothing but God's "messanger" to intice millions of Jews to leave the exile and come to their true Home.

hmmmm where do you live CD?

[invisible hand]

So how many readers of this blog are fundamentalist advocates for "Greater Israel" on the grounds that it is divinely ordained and hence inevitable? No arguing with this any more than we can argue with real Hamas fundamentalists who believe that no part of the Muslim Ummah (including Portugal and Spain, by the way) can legitimately be ruled by non-Muslims. God said so, that settles it, end of story.

For the rest of us:
Reject the two state solution and you will wind up with a one state solution. One person, one vote for everyone living between the Jordan and the Mediterranean. Sound good? If not, pay attention to Obama. Demographic trends make a two-state solution less likely the longer we wait.
Real friends are not those who tell us what we want to hear, they tell us what we need to hear, however difficult to accept.

[justayid]

RF

The fact that one lives in the US doesnt mean one cant continued the practice of referring to galus, exile. That was used by Jews in the middle ages who had the possibility of making aliyah. I may now be exiled by my yetzer harah, which keeps me from risking a career change and the difficulties of aliyah at my age, rather than by a Roman decree. Also, of course, Galus can be intepreted spiritually, in which sense even jews in Israel are still in Galus.

[Yoel B]

Is resistance always against an "opressor" with the connotations of that word?

Pretty much yes.

Unless, of course you define "oppression" differently from how the members of the "resistance" define it. Hence it depends on whether you are talking about our democratic ally Britain or the colonial oppressor Britain.

The Japanese tried to drive (with some success -- see S.C Bose) between nationalists in India of the Indian subcontinent and Great Britain. Both Jinnah and Gandhi more or less backed the British.

Sticking a thumb in Great Britain the colonial power's eye is also IIRC the main reason the USSR voted for Partition.

[David]

Choni Davidowitz is an avowed Kahanist, who spends his time trolling websites and trying to lure people into his filthy racist politics. Including websites and blogs primarily populated by teenagers, where he pretends to be "cool" and one of them.

[David]

This just about sums it up:

Quote Of The Day: Jeffrey Goldberg On Obama's Cairo Speech

"An African-American President with Muslim roots stands before the Muslim world and defends the right of Jews to a nation of their own in their ancestral homeland, and then denounces in vociferous terms the evil of Holocaust denial, and right-wing Israelis go forth and complain that the President is unsympathetic to the housing needs of settlers. Incredible, just incredible."

[Lawrence M. Reisman]

To Invisible Hand:

The problem with a two-state solution is that Israel wants one of those states to be Jewish. The Arabs, from Abbas on down, reject that idea, and in the end, two Arab states is little different from one Arab state. I don't believe in a "greater Israel," but I do believe in an "Israel" that is Jewish.

[justayid]

"Unless, of course you define "oppression" differently from how the members of the "resistance" define it. Hence it depends on whether you are talking about our democratic ally Britain or the colonial oppressor Britain."

Our democratic ally britain, was also a britain that ran India in such a way that one could legitimately call its opponents resistors. Those are not mutually exclusive. One can even do that while acknowledging positive aspects to the Raj.

The Japanese tried to drive (with some success -- see S.C Bose) between nationalists in India of the Indian subcontinent and Great Britain. Both Jinnah and Gandhi more or less backed the British.

Google on Quit India. Gandhi definitely "resisted" even during the war (and without supporting the axis, at least intentionally) albeit nonviolently, unlike Bose.

[Shine the light]

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has issued an unprecedented statement clarifying President Barack Obama’s demands for Israel to stop expanding Jewish communities in areas it acquired following the 1967 Six-Day War, including Jerusalem.

Complete nonsesnse.

Clinton has made no such statement.

Visit the Department of State website. It lists all of the their press releases and statements, and even posts the remarks made by department officials in addtition to Clinton.

There is no statement to that effect listed anywhere, and there isn't a thing on the site that remotely resembles such a statement.

[radical feminist]

For the rest of us:
Reject the two state solution and you will wind up with a one state solution. One person, one vote for everyone living between the Jordan and the Mediterranean. Sound good?

I am game if it's a secular state.

[radical feminist]

For the rest of us:
Reject the two state solution and you will wind up with a one state solution. One person, one vote for everyone living between the Jordan and the Mediterranean. Sound good?

Come to think of it, it worked for South Africa.

[justayid]

South Africa has had its ups and downs. No blood bath or typical african dictatorship as some have said, but so far no rotation in office, a high crime rate. Not exactly the picture of good governance (cue remarks about Israeli pols) Anyway, the south African politics pre-1991 wasnt much like Pal politics. Also, white south africans can look elsewhere for homes for Protestant english or dutch culture. There is only one Jewish homeland. (also, zimbabwe hasnt worked out all that well)

A "binational secular democratic" state wouldnt remain so for long. Even if Abbas and Fayyed started out in control Hamas would be looking to push them out as soon as possible. IF hamas lost elections they could attempt to undermine the secularists by engaging in violence against the Jews. which some of our jewish friends would be glad to repay in kind. mutual violence back and forth. Not to mention pressure for nonovertly racist legislation aimed at harming the Jews economically. Plus corruption. And hamas pressure for right wing legislation on social morality, which some jews would support, if the arab-jewish violence hadnt reached the point where that was impossible. Before long most secular jews would be leaving. You would have hamasniks, the non-zionist frummies, the diehard kahanists eager for the final blood bath, and an embattle fatah govt.

Not a pretty picture. Look at Zimbabwe, Ivory Coast, Lebanon, Algeria, Pakistan.

There are many more examples where this can go wrong than there are positive examples (and again, RSA, while probably the best example, aint exactly getting floods of Israeli immigrants)

And why not have a state where the JEWISH people can show how JEWS make a democratic, and socially just state.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Apartheid was appalling but the current SA has a high crime rate and is not a rousing success.

I am perhaps a chauvanist pig, but I would like at least one ethnically Jewish country that could be a refuge in bad times and a source of pride in good times. Israel is not perfect, but it's no North Korea either and has the potential to be that kind of country. If there was another Jewish country somewhere, I'd consider it instead. (Biro-Bidzhan doesn't count). Just one country, on the face of the earth- for my people and culture. Too much to ask?

With the exception of Turkey, Muslim countries have not been successfully secular. This is not to denigrate Islam- but that's the case. Secularism is a western cultural artifact dating from the Enlightenment and is not a universal concept. It is cultural imperialism to expect all to follow it. And if you think Israel is a theocracy, it's a theocracy-lite, esp. compared to even moderate Muslim nations.

A one state solution would leave the Jewish people as castrated victims once again, with the potential for new SS St. Louises in the future. (The ship that couldn't dock). I don't relish victim status, and I don't want to be a member of a bunch of weepy losers waiting for Godot/Moshiach.

Meanwhile, let the Palestinians, who have a counter-claim, have yet another Arab & Islamic state (yes- I know, not all Arabs are Muslims and not all Muslims are Arabs). Let them build, instead of destroying. Unless they prefer to wallow in victimhood- which I hope not for both our sakes.

May God bless and keep the Palestinians- far away from us.

[Ben]

Mister Apikoros you are completely off the mark regarding settler population. Your comment shows that you have never been there and that you didn't take time to learn the question, but already have a strong opinion.

Here it is: "If I were in the IDF, I'd be a pretty pissed off soldier if I were called upon to ensure the safety of those who (1) in large part, don't support the State of Israel, (2) are exempt from paying taxes, and (3) are exempt from serving in the Israeli Defense Force because they are "bochurim." IMHO, they call all go to hell. ".

All wrong: 1) Settlers support the state of Israel 2) They work and pay taxes. There is no exception for the settlers in this regard 3) Settlers do go to the army and represent the most motivated part of IDF. They are disproportionally represented in elite combat units and disproportionally killed during the conflicts.

Very small part of settlers are Haredi to whom your vitriol would be properly applied.

I suggest you go and learn. You may disagree with their ideas, but can not blame them for things they don't do. Also, I suggest you go to Israel visit the "settlements". They are nothing like press trying to portray. Many of them are modern cities. Like any city here in US is a settlement on Indian land, including one where you live. Ask yourself are you ready to move? If not why the people of those cities (3rd generation often) have to move? Why Arabs can live in Israel, but Jews can not live in Palestinian state? Why every Arab state must be Jew-free?

[Clue]

Any person who advocates the removal of 300.000 Jews from the land of Israel is no friend. Period.

[MisterApikoros]

First of all, Ben, I have been to Israel. Twice.

Second, while some settlers support the State of Israel, many don't. Some are my relatives, so I ought to know.

Third, there are plenty of settlers who are haredi, and don't serve.

[Yosef ben Matitya]

if there will be a bat qol certifying these people as jews, may be it's time for the sane among us to become apostates!

[Just a Goy]

' Israel now receives on average about $3 billion in direct foreign assistance each year... about 75% [of it] military aid... In per capita terms, this level of direct foreign assistance amounts to a direct subsidy of more than $500 per year for each Israeli. By comparison, the number two recipient of American aid, Egypt, receives only $20 per person, and impoverished countries such as Pakistan and Haiti receive roughly $5 per person and $27 per person, respectively... All this largesse is especially striking when one realizes that Israel is not a poor or devastated country like Afghanistan, Niger, Burma, or Sierra Leone. On the contrary, Israel is now a modern industrial power. '
- The Israel Lobby & US Foreign Policy

It baffles me how Israel believes it is entitled to such funds, with no strings attached.

[Paul Freedman]

YL: with fear and trembling I note that israel did sign on to agreements putting an end to settlement growth--with reservations later declared but they signed on--with awareness that Obama's corps of advisors contains a full complement of anti-"neocon" winguts along with Jew-friendly figures like Ross and Clinton and Emanuel, I'm hoping that part of the strategy is just go get some traction with an israeli government implementing this one commitment--actually implementing it, without requiring Israel to freeze all development in "East Jerusalem"--which would, of course, exclude development of the Jewish Quarter, well-established Jewish neighborhoods, Mt. Scopus etc.

[Paul Freedman]

Just a Goy--maybe they think they're GM or AGI or something eh? This is chump change considering the lump sums and obligations, now up to trillions all of us American citizens are in the hole for now, Jews and gentiles alike--also keep in mind, by law, a lot of this money must be spent on American products so it recirculates back here--it's shovel-ready stimulus, OK?

[Paul Freedman]

Quoting from known anti-Semite goofballs will not advance your cause here--the authors of that piece of excremental drivel circularly define any and all support for Israel as part of some preternatural "lobby"--the more and more support Israel receives is not for them confirmation that this democratic society happens to favor that cause, but, as with Heidegger and the rest of the pseudo-intellectual semi-literal rabble professoriate who flocked to national socialism merely confirmation for them that the International Lobby is many tentacled.

[Paul Freedman]

btw JustAG, If israel or Iran disappears our lives would not be all that affected--people tend to overestimate the role "politics" plays in their own personal lives--that guy over there is not the author of our sorrows

[Yochanan Lavie]

Paul: well said.

[Just a Goy]

Agreed, to the aforementioned, PF. I thought it interesting, the 75% relationship with regard to defense and the US defense industry.

The reference, considered anti-semite...? If so, it was never my intention. I'd tried to establish just how much foreign aide was provided to Israel by the US. It did show, in comparison, just how disproportional the spending is. But all be it, Israel stands alone, within the region. Rest assured, if Iran were to attack Israel, it would bring upon itself such a wrath from Israel itself, and its allies, doubtful Iran would try - That is overtly, and that is where in lies, the rub...

I am one who really wants to see settlements frozen. Expansion in Jerusalem, at present, is unjustifiable - from my perspective. Nor in the previously agreed upon territories... It makes Israel look quite irresponsible / irrational - Do as I say, not as I do.

It's a difficult conundrum; secular or religious State, secular/religious State, or religious State.

Eh, politics. But lives are at stake, on both sides. The situation with both Iran and N Korea - seeming insurmountable.

[Paul Freedman]

Thank you YL. JUsTAg: Mead and Weisenhymer (or Ward and Mesienheimer or whatever) have a cottage industry complaining about the Israel-Jewish lobby and championing their "courage" in "exposing" its machinations. The title of the book encapsulates the belief that a "the Jewish Lobby" (definition of which is situationally expandable depending upon the polemics required--in certain company it is called the "Israel Lobby") has hijacked "American" foreign policy. Their supporters also go on and on about how brave they are for publicizing MW (who are of course heroic to begin with), even as no body seems to get pulled out of their cubby holes and spanked for writing the nth opinion piece about how much better life woud be for everyone if israel could revert to a happy bedouin community with its enlightened inhabitants puffing on hubbly-bubblies, swapping concubines, and trading Koranic quotes and Al Asqa Brigades martyrdom cards. Actually, if you combine foreign assistance to Israel with that provided to Egypt plus Palestinians and now Pakistan Israel aid isn't disproportionate. Meanwhile, although the Pentagon has been known to dis Israel's performance and counter-insurgency cred of late, jobs are jobs. 78% percent of American Jews did vote for Obama and I don't think that millions of us can be shocked shocked that he is asking for a little more upfront and public return on those $.

[Paul Freedman]

& from the Shas front--we can disagree about Obama's wisdom, the role of religion, national identity etc. but this is one reason why a no-growth-means-no-growth standard is now in how-do-we-implement discussions state-side:

Israeli ministry wages settlement war against U.S.

By Mazal Mualem

Interior Minister Eli Yishai on Sunday began to make good on a pledge that he would exploit all the resources of the Interior Ministry, "its branches and its influences over local government" to expand settlements in the territories.

Yishai, who is also chairman of Shas, made the promise last Thursday to the heads of the Yesha Council of settlements. His party is concerned by the freeze on construction that has been in effect since Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu took office, which Yishai said is "drying out" the settlements.

Haaretz has learned that Yishai has instructed officials at the Interior Ministry to come up with ways to help the settlers, by allowing continued construction within the major West Bank settlement blocs where building has stopped as a result of American pressure.

Yishai wants to include additional built-up areas within the city limits of towns in the major settlement blocs, effectively expanding those cities' boundaries. Adjustment of the city limits, which is within the purview of the Interior Ministry, can mean the addition of several square kilometers to a locale's jurisdiction - or the subtraction of said amount of land.

[Paul Freedman]

ESTRAGON:
He should be here.
VLADIMIR:
He didn't say for sure he'd come.
ESTRAGON:
And if he doesn't come?
VLADIMIR:
We'll come back tomorrow.
ESTRAGON:
And then the day after tomorrow.
VLADIMIR:
Possibly.

[Dovid]

Washington - Salaam aleikum, dudes!
I thought I knew a little bit about the Middle East. Boy, was I wrong. Last week, President Obama set me straight. Here's what our president taught me during his Middle-Eastern pilgrimage:
There is no more terrorism.
Wow, cool! No more security checks at airports, right? It's unclear which side won, but it's all over. Obama didn't mention terrorism a single time in his star-turn speech in Cairo. Only a few "violent extremists" (our own troops?) remain at large.
America tortured.
I thought there was still a debate about that, but I guess not. And no regime in the Middle East tortures anybody, ever. Our bad.
Churches and synagogues are about to open in Saudi Arabia. Since "Islam has a proud tradition of tolerance" and there are "over 1,200 mosques within our borders," I can't wait for the first Baptist hymn-sing in Riyadh. Sign me up!
Behind closed doors with Saudi King Abdullah, our president must've mentioned the many hundreds of churches and synagogues that thrived on the Arabian Peninsula during the Prophet's lifetime. Muslims zealots destroyed them. Time to get the bin Laden family's construction firm on the job re-building!
And stoning converts who leave Islam to death is a no-no, right?
Women can dress any way they want in Saudi Arabia. Just my analysis, based on Obama's insistence that Islam recognizes "the dignity of all human beings" and that Muslim women must be free to make their own decisions about what to wear. Surely, fashion choices extend to Mecca and Medina, not just Detroit and Paris?
"Islam has always been a part of America's story." Guess the Founding Fathers missed that one. But I'm assured that George Washington turned to his mullah in the dark days at Valley Forge, that Daniel Boone read the Koran around the campfire, and that al Qaeda stood by us at the Alamo.
Yeah, there was that misunderstanding with the Muslim Barbary Pirates, when they killed, kidnapped and enslaved American citizens for years - but who's perfect?
There are "nearly seven million American Muslims." Who knew? We all thought there were three or four million, max. Is this a preview of the predetermined results of our upcoming census? [Note to editor: Confirm numbers with ACORN.]
"It was not violence that won full and equal rights" for black Americans. So much for the Civil War and my ancestor, who volunteered to wear Union blue and paid for it with his life. I thought a half-million Americans died fighting to end slavery. Silly me. Still, it was brave of our president to highlight slavery's "lash of the whip" in his speech, since his own ancestors, as Muslims along Africa's Swahili Coast, would have been complicit - if not actively engaged - in enslaving their fellow black Africans for Arab masters. As a self-proclaimed "student of history," Obama surely knows that.
Holocaust, schmolocaust.
Aren't those pesky Jews ever going to go away? Yes, denying the Holocaust is "hateful." But let's get a grip. Palestinians "endure . . . daily humiliations." Their lot's "intolerable." Israel "devastates Palestinian families." No wonder our president shunned wicked Israel during his trip - sending a clear, if unspoken, message that Jews are now fair game.
"America's strong bonds with Israel are . . . unbreakable." Yup. And they're issued by Chrysler.
Hamas is a legitimate, recognized voice of the Palestinians. Rocket attacks against civilians, suicide bombings and kidnappings really work.
Iran can have nukes.
Our president's acceptance of "peaceful nuclear power" for Tehran was coded language for "no pre-emptive military action."
Jordan doesn't matter.
So much for one Arab country's attempts at human decency. If you want attention from our president, you've got to be a desert gangbanger.
My wife wondered why Obama didn't make his speech in Indonesia, the world's most-populous Muslim state, where he would've been welcomed proudly as a home-boy. Obama just reinforced the stereotype that Muslim equals Arab.
Democracy isn't for everybody.
We're done peddling that particular drug.
Of course, our president didn't mention al Qaeda's catastrophic defeat in Iraq, where millions of Sunni Arabs rejected the terror organization. Iraq was Bush's war, so it's all bad.
And forget junk like modern medicine, telecommunications or even the internal combustion engine. Islam's been the source of real progress. Like "calligraphy." Medieval Islam's ballyhooed contributions actually were due to Greek-speaking Christians (including slaves) employed as court officials, to Armenian architects and Jewish physicians. But, yeah, Arabs had really good penmanship.
Our president's breakthrough message to the Muslim world was that America overthrew democratic regimes, slavery was our history's central feature, and we invaded people on a whim - but we're sorry now.
His crowd-pleasing speech sanitized and romanticized Islam, letting the disgruntled populations of the Middle East off the hook for their own self-wrought failures, their monstrous oppression of women (our president's women's-right-to-wear-hijab remarks were aimed at Europe), and the violent aggression toward others they often celebrated and generally tolerated.
To Arab ears, especially, the Cairo speech made America the guilty party in our confrontations, as if, on 9/11, crazed Presbyterians had attacked Mecca. Yet, the historical facts are that Islam's remorseless assault on the West lasted for more than one thousand years, its cruel occupation of Christian lands lasted into the 20th century, and the dream of an all-conquering caliphate remains very much with us.
The last mass slaughter of Christians in Iraq wasn't a millennium ago, but in 1933. Al Qaeda isn't an aberration. It's a manifestation.
Our president may or may not be a student of history, but he can't just make it up.
Aleikum salaam!
Ralph Peters is Fox News' Strategic Analyst.

[Paul Freedman]

Well Dovid, there's oil on the waters and then again there's oil. And since everyone wants it nobody can just go in as is the way of the world and steal it. The Arabs are players.

[A. Nuran]

The great "sages" claim that 5 million Jews fled Egypt and wandered in the desert. If that represented only 20% of the total, then 20 million Jews lived in Eqypt before Exodus. That only overstates the actual number 100-fold.

Then the Sages were pulling numbers out of the sleeves. The archeologists have a pretty good idea of world population back then. Twenty five million would have been an impossibly large fraction of all the people in the world.

[Just a Goy]

So, in other words, PF - Yishai is willing to bite the hand that helps feed and protect him and his nation? Irrational, arrogant posturing, at best.

What would happen if Obama froze funding... Would that get his attention?

The problem, as I see it, the US is great at talking the talk, but poor at walking the walk.

Its all a little tough to swallow, this foreign aid without strings, while Americans go without healthcare. In Israel, the National Health Insurance Law (or National Health Insurance Act of 1995) established the legal framework which enables and facilitates basic, compulsory universal health care for all, of which a portion of the $3 billion may likely contribute to...

[Paul Freedman]

Just a Goy, they are actually hinting at a threat, well, they've explicitly laid it out, that is more severe than cutting of the money. You continue to emphasize the particular injustice of Israel getting money even though the Arab countries, who have available huge money vis a vis Sunni petroleum reserves get about the same amount. I think the belief that this 3 billion dollars is beggering Americans to be, to put it kindly, misplaced. Israel's technological sector has made contributions to America's computer and defense infrastructure. This three billion dollars is chicken feed--your objection is politcal-ethical, not economical. That said, as noted, Obama has floated an interesting proposal to the Israel government (due to coalition politics Bibi is not yet in control of Shas, just as Sharon, in his day, pursued his own policies)--the current US administration has told Israel it will continue to fund Israel at current levels, but may, well, abstain when the Security Council passes its nth plus 1 resolution against Israel.

I would think that the answer to Israel national health care would be American single-payer health care--the aid to Israel, while fungible, is defense and security related, and also assists in paying interest on Israel debt accrued before Israel began getting grants instead of loans.

imo you underestimate the willingness of the current Administration to throw Israel under the bus if necessary.

Also, as a Jew, I think you exaggerate the assistance America is actually giving Israel--it is clear that Hamas, Fatah, and Iran's default position is to kill as many Jews as possible, bury them, dig them up, and then kill the corpses. America's policy imo is to hold Israel's coat and see if she succeeds in keeping her enemies at bay. Israel's success to date is not due to America, that cheerfully stands aside at critical moments, 1967, the Al Asqa intifidah and watches Israeli citizens die or be threatened with imminent death. Israel's success is due to the fact that Israeli's get up every day and go to work and study and have the discipline to effectively (most of the time) wage self-defense and build their infrastructure. Fatah is a corrupt assemblage of time serving politicians and Hamas still can't make the leap Hezbollah did from street gangs/militias to a true militiary force; their obsession with rockets has been detrimental to a top-down bottom-up organization of ground troops.

Myself, I'd be happy if Israel gave up all American aid and adopted a forthright position of annexing Gaza and the West Bank, outlawing Hamas and Fatah and taking responsibility fully for civilian welfare. But this will never happen. If Israel signs agreements it should honor them.

[Paul Freedman]

If memory serves, the last time the United States actually placed direct military force at Israel's disposal in a battlefield-critical way would be in October 1973, when President Nixon organized an emergency air lift of materiale when Israel faced off against Egypt and Syria. Even then, Kissinger cut off the Israeli advance and forced the IDF to cease its encirclement of the Egyptian Third Army corps when the destruction of that critical force was at hand. I sincerely believe you underestimate the continuing factoring in of the amoral necessity for Arab support in American foreign policy, to Israel's detriment--the last Bush Administration represents the outside limit of support for Israel and even that Administration acceded to Israel's seige of Hamas in Gaza but did not actually offer, for example, to join Israel in the deployment of overwhelming military force to conquer a political-military organization that has declared in its covenant that at the Messianic age every single Jew will be slaughtered.

[Paul Freedman]

All that said the organized Jewish community is not mobilizing to support continued settlement growth outside Jerusalem (Jerusalem has some special issues)--Shas and orthodox supporters here in the States are on their own as far as I can see.

[Paul Freedman]

& the Obama complaint would not be that those Israeliis are "biting the hands that feed them"--taking the money and doing what they want--this is the anti-Israeli stereotype borrowed imo, as indicated, from the stereotypical image of cheap you-know-who's, from Shylock to Fagin and so on and so on--the issue for the American government is not the darn money (they are thieves) but the repeated attempts to wiggle out of commitments that prevents, this administration is convinced, an American intermediary from gaining economic traction, the bad faith as regards the money is important because of the diplomatic consequences of the bad faith, not the money. I would be surprised if this situation is permitted to stand.

[Paul Freedman]

excuse me, gaining *diplomatic* traction

[Monkeysuncle]

you want to worry about money? the debt is splurged 99.9 percent on other JuGs

frontpage.com

"The U.S. Treasury recently released its “2008 Financial Report of the United States Government.” In case you had any doubts, our government’s finances are in a terrible mess. According to the report, under generally accepted accounting principles (the ones that private businesses are required by law to use), Uncle Sam’s total financial liabilities—explicit debts and unfunded obligations—exceed $65 trillion. That’s five times as large as our national GDP—a GDP, by the way, that happens to be shrinking at an alarming rate..."

[justayid]

"Any person who advocates the removal of 300.000 Jews from the land of Israel is no friend. Period"

leaving aside the quibble that most of the 300,000 are inside the security fence and will never have to leave their homes, why would settlers hav to leave Israel? Did the Gaza settlers leave Israel? What would be the demographic strategive impact of a hundred thousand Jews moving to the Gallil?

[justayid]

"jobs are jobs"

Folks tend to forget that most of the aid to Israel goes for US made weaponry. Thats jobs, at Lockheed and Northrup Grumman.

[justayid]

"All that said the organized Jewish community is not mobilizing to support continued settlement growth outside Jerusalem (Jerusalem has some special issues)--Shas and orthodox supporters here in the States are on their own as far as I can see. "

so far bibi has not yet made the distinction between settlements west of the sec fence and east of the security fence, nor has he acknowledged that a Pal state would make sense under ANY circumstances. To support him, it makes you look like you too oppose a Pal state, and want natural growth based expansion of settlements whereever they are in the WB/Yesh. Not many moderates want to look like that.

Bibi speaks on Sunday. Lets see what he says.

[justayid]

"Its all a little tough to swallow, this foreign aid without strings,"

its not without strings. If Israel were not trying to please the US, israeli policy, at least under Likud govts, would have been more hardline than it was. No one wants to admit that - not Likud, obviously, not those who want to claim Israel (or at least Likud) defies the US, not the folks who want to deny that there are sane policie to the right of what likud has done in the past.

[Paul Freedman]

justayid--Bibi's in a bind--some of those strings certainly saved Yassir's scrawny tuchus when he was hunkered down in his command compound with his crew of wanted Tanziim headbangers, calling BBC on the telephone for midnight rants--

I like another of your points--not only for security reasons but the whole LandOfIsrael mythos some of these folks regard settling the Galil or the Negev as second class while floating schemes of swopping out Arab villages there for settlements.

[The Facks man]

The only thing that King Hussein Ben laden Obama has done positive, is to put Israel in their place. Israel needs to get out of Palestinian, Return all of Israels stolen settlements, and get out out of the City of Postville,Ia.
and thats the FacksMan!!!

[polonious almonious]

i just visited this site, and it seems like just the kind of thing for me to get worked up about.

but then again, it wont make any difference, will it?

[polonious almonious]

i will say just one thing, to you, just a goy.

the U.S. is the one vying for the settlement freeze. NOT the plstnians. the plstnians will agree to any demand the us makes, simply because its within their interests., however, they will not ask for it, because that would constitute de facto recognition of our right to exist.

the settlements, to quote (vaguely, im no computer) binyamin netanyahu, are not the cause of the problem, but a symptom.

the plstnians are not asking for a settlement freeze, because they are not asking for anything. they are jsut going to wait and see what they can get from the world's incomplete understanding of the history of the conflict.