Lying About Child Sexual Abuse – Agudath Israel of America

Does truth matter?

The Jewish Week has two op-eds on child sexual abuse. The one that I find problematic is written by Rabbi David Zwiebel, the executive VP of Agudath Israel of America:

Bill’s ‘Window’ Unfair, Yet More Must Be Done
Rabbi David Zwiebel, Special To The Jewish Week

As reported in these pages one week ago, a small group of protesters picketed this year’s annual dinner of Agudath Israel of America to show their displeasure with Agudath Israel’s opposition to the “Markey bill” — legislation pending in Albany that would, among other things, suspend for one year the statute of limitations in New York for any civil claims based on allegations of childhood sexual abuse.

The picketers handed out a one-page color flier bearing the logo of Agudath Israel, with the header “A message from Rabbi Chaim Dovid Zwiebel, Executive Vice President, Agudath Israel of America.” At the conclusion of the message appeared a photograph of said executive vice president — me — followed by the tagline: “Agudas Yisroel: Our children are our future.”

The purported message itself was quite an eye-opener. It described Agudath Israel’s opposition to the Markey bill as having been motivated by personal concern regarding potential legal claims the bill would allow to be brought against Agudath Israel itself and the yeshivot headed by the organization’s senior rabbinic leadership. It claimed, in classic first-person confessional prose, that “I have been ordered to work tirelessly with our partner in this holy mission, the Catholic Conference of New York State, to oppose this legislation. ... My job is to follow orders and I am obligated to obey ... or lose my job.”
As readers may have guessed, the message was fabricated. I never wrote it. It was materially false. It was a cheap shot.
And yet, in a certain sense, it was a welcome contribution.

Sexual abuse of children is an unspeakably terrible thing. And, to our great pain and chagrin, we in the Orthodox Jewish community have discovered over recent years that it is also apparently a far more common thing than any of us had ever imagined. Whether, as some claim, the problem is even greater in Orthodox circles than in broader society, whether it is just as bad or whether it is less prevalent, the bottom line is by now clear and undeniable: significant numbers of children growing up in Orthodox homes and attending Orthodox institutions are victims of sexual abuse.

It is also by now clear and undeniable that the scars left by such abuse are often deep and permanent, affecting victims’ social and emotional development, undermining their religious identification and observance, even leading to acts of self-destruction.

Once we could say we didn’t know. Now we know. And part of the reason we know is that victims and their advocates — like those who picketed our dinner — have made their voices heard. As I told a Jewish Week reporter last week, these people have a special claim on our attention and conscience.

But their brash indictment of our organizations and rabbinic leaders is both misguided and offensive. 

As it became apparent that the problem of childhood sexual abuse in Orthodox circles was a serious one — both in scope and in severity — responsible rabbinic leaders began to assess and address the situation. With little fanfare, away from the media limelight, the Vaad Roshei Yeshiva (senior yeshiva deans) of Torah Umesorah – The National Society for Hebrew Day Schools, and the Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah (Council of Torah Sages) of Agudath Israel, convened many meetings to discuss the problem and develop meaningful responses. This led, six years ago, to the publication by Torah Umesorah (with a strong assist from the professionals at Ohel) of internal school guidelines for preventing and dealing with abuse, including reporting to civil authorities when appropriate. Workshops on the topic are a regular feature of Torah Umesorah conventions.

Agudath Israel, similarly, has developed guidelines for Jewish summer camps, as well as for its year-round extracurricular youth programs.

The organizations have encouraged schools and camps to urge their parent bodies to talk to their children about inappropriate touch. They have encouraged institutions to perform background checks on all prospective employees, including a criminal records check, and have supported laws authorizing non-public schools to screen prospective employees through a state fingerprint checking system.
On the rabbinic front, halachic responsa have been published addressing the question of reporting cases of suspected abuse to the secular authorities. Special Jewish courts have been established in several Orthodox communities across the country to deal with allegations of abuse. 

But yes, despite all this — and despite recognizing that yet additional steps need to be considered — Agudath Israel and Torah Umesorah oppose the Markey bill.

More precisely, we oppose one specific aspect of the Markey bill. As our organizations’ joint statement makes clear, we would not object to legislation designed to give victims greater recourse against their abusers. Our concern is with the bill’s potentially crippling real-world impact on Jewish schools, camps and synagogues — institutions that are the very lifeblood of our community — and their hard-pressed parent bodies and supporters who have no connection whatsoever to decades-old claims of abuse.

One can still maintain that, even so, it makes sense to suspend the statute of limitations for civil suits against institutions. Reasonable people can debate the issue. But opposition to the Markey bill’s “window” does not bespeak, as has been repeatedly and angrily charged by some of the bill’s proponents, lack of concern, God forbid, for victims.

No one at Agudath Israel or Torah Umesorah has ever insinuated that proponents of the bill don’t care about Jewish schools. We know that the bill’s proponents are well-meaning even if, in our view, they are not adequately weighing all the factors. We only wish they would extend to those of us who oppose the bill similar courtesy — or at least the courtesy of not disseminating fabricated “statements” designed to cast us and our community’s most revered rabbinic leaders in a poor light.

The picketers, though, are right. Our children are our future. They — and the schools that play such a central role in their Jewish development — are the most precious resources the Jewish community possesses. They deserve, both of them, our care and protection.

Rabbi David Zwiebel is executive vice president of Agudath Israel of America.

1. Every positive step Zwiebel mentions are voluntary. Haredi schools do not have to follow them. Many – perhaps most – do not. There is no penalty for failing to adopt these voluntary measures. Zwiebel omits this important fact. 

2. Agudath Israel of America is rife with rabbis who actively covered up for or turned a blind eye to child sexual abuse, including rabbis who did so after those voluntary steps were taken, including those who did so very recently. Zwiebel omits this important fact.

3. The head of Agudath Israel's council of rabbinic sages, the Novominsker Rebbe, allegedly refused to call the police on the notorious Brooklyn Fondler, Rabbi Yehuda Kolko. The esteemed Rabbi Perlow's reasoning for this refusal? Kolko, he said, was a Flatbush problem. I live in Borough Park – as if living in a different Brooklyn neighborhood excuses anyone, let alone a Jewish leader, from saving the lives of children.  Zwiebel omits this important fact.

4. The Markey Bill will haul people like the Novominsker Rebbe into court. And it will expose institutions that knowingly harbored sexual predators – like Agudath Israel's own Camp Agudah where Kolko once worked – to legal scrutiny. And that scrutiny could result in some serious shame, and some real change in the haredi community. And that is why Agudath Israel of America opposes it. Zwiebel omits this important fact.

Here is the second op-ed, written by Asher Lipner:

The Markey Bill And Beyond: If The Rabbis Really Cared ...
Asher Lipner, Special To The Jewish Week

For years I was a proud, card-carrying member of Agudath Israel of America, a leading haredi communal organization; sadly, I have allowed my membership to lapse. But I, like many others, do not feel that I left the Agudah. Rather the Agudah has left us.

The Agudah has come out in opposition to the Child Victims Act, known as the “Markey Bill” in the New York State Legislature (its lead sponsor is Queens Assemblywoman Marge Markey). The bill would allow victims of childhood sexual abuse recourse toward obtaining justice against their abusers by providing a one-year “window” in which to file a civil lawsuit at any age, and would extend the statute of limitations for pressing criminal charges from age 23 to 28. 

Many survivors of child abuse have been waiting for years in shame, pain and agony, hoping that one day our religious leaders would hear their cries and address their plight. Survivors were just beginning to feel empowered and accepted after recent media attention and political and communal statements calling attention to their suffering. 

Courageously, some survivors were able to speak out, and there were those who traveled to Albany last month to lobby for passage of the Markey bill. Orthodox Jews stood together with Catholics and Protestants, blacks and whites, to support survivors of child abuse and to ensure protection for children in the future. 

But we were deeply disappointed to learn, on the bus ride home, that the Agudah and Torah Umesorah, the National Association of Hebrew Day Schools, whom parents expect to promote child welfare and school safety, had come out against the bill.

One survivor of abuse from 29 years ago, a friend of mine, wondered aloud: “Does it take a situation where the children or grandchildren of the religious leadership are molested before they will finally start doing the right thing?”

The Agudah is concerned with yeshivas and other institutions becoming financially insolvent due to lawsuits, should Markey pass. But the only lawsuits that could possibly win are those against yeshivas that knowingly harbored molesters, not the vast majority of innocent institutions. Are we to believe that yeshivas that would enable the abuse of innocent Jewish children are, in the words of the Agudah and Torah Umersorah, the “lifeblood of our community?” 

On the one hand, the Markey bill is not necessarily an absolute litmus test of whether the rabbis care or not about victims of sexual abuse. But the fact is that Agudah’s denunciation of the Child Victims Act marks the first time that the current gedolim (Torah sages) have acknowledged the problem of sexual abuse — and then only to focus on the institutions they are afraid will be financially hurt by it. As I have heard repeatedly from those who have suffered, this leads survivors of abuse to feel that the rabbis care more about the financial safety of their institutions than the physical, emotional and spiritual safety of the children. 

Survivors of abuse wonder why the rabbis remained silent for so many years about this issue. Yated Neeman, the primary haredi newspaper, reported recently that the leading rabbis have been meeting to discuss the problem for at least five years. So why is it only now that they publicly admit that molestation exists in their community? And where is the apology to the victims for not protecting them all this time, for not believing them and for silencing their voices? 

Why have these rabbinic leaders not openly endorsed the position paper of the Jewish Board of Advocates for Children (www.jewishadvoctes.org), which calls for mandated reporting of suspicion of abuse by rabbis and teachers in yeshivas; mandated fingerprinting and background checks of all employees in yeshivas; mandated safety plans with full transparency and written instructions to parents; and mandated firing and punishment of employees for any sexual or physical abuse?

These actions should have begun already — voluntarily — even before legislation is enacted. It is a chilul Hashem (desecration of God’s name) that our yeshivas would need the government to legislate and enforce the fundamentals of our Torah. Enforcement of these values, which conform to halacha, would be easy enough for our leaders. Any school that does not provide for the safety of our children should be deemed as outside of Orthodoxy, as would be a school that sponsored a Tisha b’Av dance party or Yom Kippur banquet.

Surely if a school was found to be distributing treif lollipops it would soon be forced to shut its doors.

Why have the gedolim not yet signed a proclamation stating that both victims and witnesses of abuse must go to the police, as some rabbinic authorities have stated? Why have they fostered the misperception that it is forbidden to do so because of mesirah (the prohibition of reporting Jews to non-Jewish authorities)? Why do they not also clarify to the uninformed that sexual abuse is a sin and a crime whether there is sexual penetration or not — that it includes such mistreatment as fondling, coercing a child to touch an adult sexually, exhibitionism, voyeurism and even inappropriate sexual speech to a child?

If the rabbinic leaders are too afraid of damaging their own institutions to support the Markey bill, let them implement the above suggestions. That surely would go a long way toward reaching out to survivors and promoting healing and teshuva in our community. 
 
Asher Lipner is vice president of the Jewish Board of Advocates for Children and works as a therapist with survivors of abuse and their families. 

There is a special place in hell for the Novominsker and his rabbinic colleagues. Before they get there, there is another special place they need to go: it's called federal penitentiary. That's where people who conspire to cover up crimes that violate the civil rights and safety of others go when they're prosecuted by the federal government under RICO.

Will it happen?

Sadly, I doubt it.

But it could happen. And it should happen. And the US Attorney needs to know you want it to happen.

Comments

[Days Are Coming]

Shmarya,

Very well put.

The sad fact is that the Agudah and Torah Umesorah rabbis are less afraid of the financial impact litigation will have on their institutions (yes, they are all yeshiva "owners") and simply frozen in fear of what discovery will disclose about what they knew, when they knew it and what they did to cover things up. Once that information is disclosed, their run is over and they'll have to find real jobs.

The point they miss is that many if not most Orthodox Jewish victims are within the statute of limitations and as the Agudah and Torah Umesorah rabbis continue exposing themselves as the heartless scoundrels they are, the message is getting out that there is nothing to fear from them and lawsuits will follow.

E.g., three years ago there were zero civil lawsuits and zero criminal cases pending. Today there are dozens of civil lawsuits and 19 criminal cases in the Brooklyn DA's office.

Shmarya, sharpen your pencil. You will have a lot to write about in the coming months.

[Genuk]

In Halacha there is no such thing as a statute of limitations. So this business about old accusations is sheer nonsense. Halacha believes that irrespective of the age of the accusation it is justiceable and its credibility can be weighed like any other claim.

The real problem is that names will be named and some very "shaine yidden" will no longer look so shain. Agudah values the shidduchim prospects of the pedophiles and their families over the interests of the victims. Dov Hikind is protecting the pedophiles for similar reasons.

Make no mistake -- pedophiles cannot be cured. Yudi Kolko over the age of sixty was arrested for molesting kids in the last few years. It was UOJ -- and lawsuits by David Fromowitz who was molested over thirty years ago-- who got him out of the classroom -- not the Agudah.

These new prospective lawsuits by the victims who fall in the window period will expose previously unknown molesters who are very likely around children and molesting children right now. The Agudah will not expose them. Ohel will not expose them. Dov Hikind will not expose them. Charlie Hynes will not expose them -- he sends them to Ohel. The Markey bill will expose them.

So Zweibel is full of garbage because the Agudah does not give a flying rip about kids. If they did they would not be opposed to a bill that will expose molesters and protect children. As Lipner said they only care about themselves and only rear their ugly head when their interests are at stake. They should go back to the rock they climbed out from under and stay there.

[yudel]

the survivors either ought to give up and live with your wounds or get civil courts proceedings going. The truth is you are afraid. I get that but for those of you who are in your careers and have a life strike now. Band together and stop the talk and the press and cut the head off the snake.

You can live as children of the secret but that living will bend your children's mind and all of you victims married with kids already see it.

i am not talking about those of who are just surfacing.

Or admit defeat and admit you are not as tough as the catholics who have fought back ---nor as brave as those who go after the neo nazi's and take them to court and always win. Nor as valiant as the catholic victims who fought back..

Do not prove these predators correct. Don't you know they think you wanted it ? Think you enjoyed it? Think you really are aba's little love child deep down?

sorry for being blunt. But the truth hurts and as long as you remain in little tiny isolated talking units and little new organizations or whatever you are just running your own group therapy.

i am happy you found each other but you are damaged people. Deeply wounded until you claim the hirer ground and act. Get to higher ground and you heal all the way back. Stay down low and you never touch your soul which is pure and crying out to you to do something and set it free again in through your nefesh.

You sit and feed newspapers articles and protest? What a pathetic joke. Fight back . Jews only love cavod and money. Go take it away from them. You do not have to win but win for your souls. Fight back. Terrorize them with depositions. Long one. Eight hours a day for a few days.

I have been fighting for you and many of you know just who is telling you this... you know who this is...

And you know i went underground to fight for you. But i have ethics. I fight for your lives but you have to do the court fight. That is crossing an ethical line for me. It must be your choice to not be afraid anymore.

Fight back. While you chew the fat and pat each other on the back for a good meeting and a good cry and have your refuges with others..which you deserve..all that is good but first step only..

.it is time to fight. Slay the snake and cut its head off in civil court. Depose the hell out of people, when the depositions go down let the press know where the deposition is happenning..

NO quarter ----no depose of the rosh yeshiva in his office. Downtown in storage closets are what tough lawyers use on tough depositions. Believe me i know that routine well enough.

Get the blood in the water.

Go to the Zero and read about andrew vachss and read his articles not mine.

you sit and chat and they spread sex to the next generation. Do you actually believe we are talking about rabbi little X fondling you in some camp and car?

Do you think that is all that is going on?

Are you so wounded you do not know that using kids is big business.Worth millions.

some of you know you were part of a ring of masters..using you, filming you, using friends of yours, your own parents enjoying that....

i cannot do the lawyer thing. The rules are such that only you can go and fight.My word is court is not worth much. I am not primary source.

Get the people in the know that will speak to your hearts and explain you are not damaged people and that you carry the cure in your own heart..then get the lawyers .

It is there job to do their job in court. Do not mix and match and smooze and dream those angry dreams....this is eating you alive inside and you know it.

Stop punishing yourself by clucking over the pain of more newspaper articles thinking ..oh boyo now it is out in the open....it is no where...

look at the press and the jewish week et al. Good they cover these stories but they have not gone the next step to not just discuss court power but education power, prevention power.

They are so out of the loop they do not know just how deep much of this stuff is and it can be stopped dead in the water with arrests in high schools, help kids self medicating, having high risk sex, empowering friends to intervene education and empowering parents.

This time is now. Sieze the time. Power to the people here is what is needed.

Go study what the catholic victims did and use their paradigm and use their lawyers.

get blood in the water. Be brave, Be warriors.Stop acting like victims. These rabbis are evil period. Stop the delusion.

some of you want to come back to me. Write me . You know where to find me. Group meeting can happen on telephones. I am not about to surface again just yet. I have work to do.

i am surprised only a couple of you have made the call. Do you not remember the power you found again in your neshama? Do not leave the next generation of babies to these people. Be moser nefesh, Stand Kiddush Hashem.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Juden: kauft nicht bei Goyim.

[sick of Agudah]

In the Ohel letter from a few weeks ago it stated that the Rabbonim have already been discussing the issue of sexual molestation within the frum community for 5 years now, now Zweibel writes in his Op-Ed piece in this weeks Jewish Week - 6 years.

So Agudah now openly confirms that there has been a known "problem" of sexual molestation within the frum community for many many years, way before UOJ started to deal with it, and they kept it quiet and did not warn anyone!!!

And this is what they call Daas Torah?!!!

Who do they think that they were protecting? The young children, those poor victims of Kolko or Mondrowitz or Reichman, etc.

No, they were protecting their own names and reputations, they were protecting the enablers of molestation, they were protecting the pedophiles themselves - the Murderers living within our communities and teaching within our Yeshivas and camps.

Torah Umesorah knew about Kolko, the senior management of Camp Agudah and Agudah Israel itself knew about Kolko, the senior management of Yeshiva Torah Temimah knew about Kolko - but what did they do - they hushed it up and threatened anyone who tried to talk about it or who tried to worn the community at large. The same goes for Mondrowitz and Reichman and Eisenman, etc.

For how long has Ohel kept up the farce of protecting children? When did they know about Mondrowitz and who did they tell? How many patients did Ohel send to Mondrowitz for "treatment"? And do you think that Ohel has ever approached any of these victims of Mondrowitz and offered help? Or again, did they just hush things up as if things never happened?

Why, over all of these years, didn't Ohel demand Mondrowitz's arrest and extradition? Who were they protecting - the victims or their own backs and board of directors?

And this is what they call Daas Torah?!!!

And remember what Mattisyahu Salomon said only 2 and a half years ago at the Agudah Convention - how he made a point of declaring his lack of cowardice in dealing with the issue of sexual abuse by rabbeim in yeshiva and insisting that keeping his efforts discreet or as he put it to “sweep under the carpet,” is a choice that he made in order to protect human dignity. Whose dignity was he referring to? The dignity of those few victims courageous enough to step forward and confront these powerful monsters or the dignity of these monsters and their poor families?

Agudas Israel and the wholes Moetzes had one thing in mind - to hush it up and cover it up. They were not and never were concerned with the young victims. By their ongoing silence they actively aligned themselves with the dignity of the pedophiles and assisted in sweeping their heinous acts under the carpet, thereby subjecting their victims to another round of abuse at the hands of the community while enabling the molesters and murderers to continue their reign of terror on unsuspecting victims.

SHAME ON YOU AGUDAS YISROEL - SHAME ON YOU!!!

You make me sick to think that I believed in you and trusted you - for all that you are interested in is your titles, and honor, and dinners and fat salaries.

SHAME ON YOU!!!

[steve]

Zwiebel and the Agudah have been very consistent in the past 5-6 years in their approach to this problem. Despite what they want you to believe, they have come out against every piece of proposed legislation that would have given any sense of protection to our children. They came out against mandatory reporting in 2005 when Zwiebel himself was quoted as saying that "this bill would take away the power of the rabbis to do their own investigating." They opposed mandatory fingerprinting and background checks (although they now claim that they will not fight it). Now they are "vigorously opposed" to the Child Victims Act- the Markey bill. You would think that if they were having meetings for 5-6 years on the subject, that by now our children would be safer from child molesters. Instead, they have handed the molesters one victory after another by continuing the coverups, the muzzling of the victims and the lack of any safety guidelines. This is how they have been "dealing" with the issue.

When he says that they "encouraged" institutions to do background checks, he knows very well that it is toothless and meaningless. None of the yeshivos will voluntarily fingerprint their employees and perform background checks. The RCA put out guidelines in 2003, 2005 and 2007 calling for mandatory reporting, fingerprinting, and background checks. They have also come out publicly in favor of the Markey bill? What has the Agudah done other than to thwart all of these efforts?

The Markey bill is the ONLY way that we are going to be able to expose these child molesters. Those that were victimized and are past the SOL have no recourse at this point. What are they supposed to do, shout from the rooftops? If they go to Dov Hikind, he will only open a new file and keep the molester's name confidential. They can't go to the DA since it is past the SOL (even in new cases Hynes will make sure the perp is not prosecuted if he is well "connected"). If they try to convene a bais din, they will be laughed out of the community if not excommunicated entirely. If they go on this blog or on UOJ, they will be called liars, motzi shem ra, cowards, heretics, etc. The only recourse they have is to sue the molesters and those that wronged them in the past. Only those lawsuits that have credibility will see the light of day. In California, they were able to expose over three hundred sexual predators when they passed a similar bill. We need to ignore these liars and hypocrites at the Agudah and work to pass this legislation in Albany immediately. We have no more time to waste bickering with these enablers.

[Elias]

A book should be written about this and then widely distributed. Piecemeal information in the blog sphere will not catch the attention of the masses. The masses need to educated in order for this madness to stop and the Agudah crushed.

[shmuel]

"And, to our great pain and chagrin, we in the Orthodox Jewish community have discovered over recent years that it is also apparently a far more common thing than any of us had ever imagined."
Explain what precisely transpired in the Orthodox community "over recent years" that led to this epiphany. Was it the non-stop crusade of UOJ, and this blog, that you refer to? Explain how "common" a problem you imagined it was for years, and what that understanding was based on. What actions were you prepared to implement based on that knowledge years ago? Did you implement it? Why not? When Rabbi Solomon addressed your annual convention and ripped bloggers, was he wrong, since you now admit that something occurred---bloggers, perhaps?--- which brought this to your attention? When he publicly stated that all is well, everything was taken care of the Torah way, maybe one case slipped through his/your/their fingers, was that contention accurate? Why did we not hear about a single position paper addressing this common problem during that period from the Agudah?

"The bottom line is by now clear and undeniable: significant numbers of children growing up in Orthodox homes and attending Orthodox institutions are victims of sexual abuse."
How long have you known this? Were these children in your schools? Your camp(s)? Your synagogues?

"It is also by now clear and undeniable that the scars left by such abuse are often deep and permanent, affecting victims’ social and emotional development, undermining their religious identification and observance, even leading to acts of self-destruction."
Repeat questions as above. Did you know this for the past 20 years? Ten years? Last year? Is it only clear "now" thanks to the blogs and survivors and their lawsuits? "Once we could say we didn’t know. Now we know." Thanks to whom do you now know this important information?

"And part of the reason we know is that victims and their advocates — like those who picketed our dinner — have made their voices heard."

So, picketing your dinner was a good thing, right? That's what we in the blogosphere thought. So was Rabbi Perlow wrong, then, when he condemned the picketers for purporting to know more than the Council of Torah Sages?

"As I told a Jewish Week reporter last week, these people have a special claim on our attention and conscience."

Had no one picketed, had no one raised this problem over the past few years, would you still say this?

"As it became apparent that the problem of childhood sexual abuse in Orthodox circles was a serious one — both in scope and in severity — responsible rabbinic leaders began to assess and address the situation."

When did it become apparent? Who raised this problem such that you became aware of it? Rabbis began to address it? When? Which rabbis? What prompted them?

"Our concern is with the bill’s potentially crippling real-world impact on Jewish schools, camps and synagogues — institutions that are the very lifeblood of our community — and their hard-pressed parent bodies and supporters who have no connection whatsoever to decades-old claims of abuse."

If certain schools, etc. harbored child abusers for decades, don't you agree that that was wrong? Don't you agree that such schools must answer to the law as to: i. why they did nothing to fire the molesters? ii. Why they did nothing to protect their students? iii. Why they were wrong in silencing their victims and their parents? If the pattern in California is any evidence, most schools are not going out of business there even with such legislation in place. Only schools which have a history of child abuse have what to fear. Don't you agree that those schools which knowingly harbored child molesters should fail? Are such schools still to be considered the "lifeblood" of your community?

Rabbi Zweibel, I am delighted you addressed this problem. But you have much to answer. Perhaps you can call a press conference, like elected leaders do in the free world, and state your position, and then open the floor to questions from reporters who know how you and the Agudah have done everything possible to quash this problem over the years. You may start by responding to these questions in a public forum.

[shmuel]

"E.g., three years ago there were zero civil lawsuits and zero criminal cases pending. Today there are dozens of civil lawsuits and 19 criminal cases in the Brooklyn DA's office."

To quote Mr. Zweibel, kein yirbu.

[Genuk]

As many have pointed out, Zweibel keeps digging himself deeper into the muck. There are a number of fundamental inherent contradictions in his positions which become more glaring with every desperate attempt to defend Agudah by its various apologists Zweibel/Agudah/Solomon/Yated etc.

On the one hand in order to protect the Moetzes they have insisted that they were unaware of the problem and or its scope. They realize the implications of admitting that the Moetzes were aware of the problem and did nothing. Not only does it display a complete lack of leadership but it shows an almost criminal indifference to the most terrible crimes and the suffering of the most vulnerable victims in klal yisroel. It would be instant disqualification of the entire Moetzes.

That position, as incredulous as it may seem, nevertheless begs the question, since Agudah was admittedly completely clueless, as to who brought it to their attention. The only answer, of course, is those detested bloggers, UOJ and friends. So, in order to protect the Moetzes, Agudah has now completely reversed position and given a tremendous Yasher Koach to UOJ and friends for enlightening the Moetzes and saving Klal Yisroel from the scourge of molestation. I'm sure they will be extending him an invitation to their next meeting for any more enlightening advice he may have for klal yisroel.

Now along comes the Markey bill, the culmination of the efforts of the bloggers and UOJ, to finally address the molestation issue in a meaningful way. Naturally, we would expect Agudah will heartily endorse the efforts to rid klal yisroel of this scourge, which they were admittedly completely clueless about until very recently.

But no, suddenly we find out that Agudah vigorously opposes the Markey bill. One second, how can Agudah even have a position on a bill which addresses a problem that Agudah and the Moetzes knew absolutely nothing about. Why not stand aside and let the people who have addressed the issue and enlightened Agudah and the Moetzes, deal with the problem appropriately and intelligently.

Now Agudah, once again, completely reverses course and claims that they have known about the problem all along and have been having meetings all these years to address the issue. Right. So why did you let Yudi Kolko hang around kids.

Sorry David it doesn't work. None of it. We see through all the nonsense. Do the respectable thing now and save your reputation while you still have one. Resign from the Agudah. Its your only option.

[shmuel]

Resign, Mr. Zweibel.
Resign, Gedolim.
Close up shop, Agudah. Do the honorable thing. Shut down.

[Sam]

++Resign, Mr. Zweibel.
Resign, Gedolim.
Close up shop, Agudah. Do the honorable thing. Shut down.++

So you're not for the protection of victims of child abuse, after all. You're simply against the notion of Orthodox Judaism. Like the rest of you who commented before shmuel.

Oh well, we shall see who shuts down first.

[Sam]

++In Halacha there is no such thing as a statute of limitations. So this business about old accusations is sheer nonsense. Halacha believes that irrespective of the age of the accusation it is justiceable and its credibility can be weighed like any other claim.++

If you're so concerned with Halacha why do you omit the fact that according to Halacha an accused cannot be convicted of a crime without the credible testimony of two witnesses, who witnessed the crime from the beginning until the end, and who forewarned the accused before committing the crime?

According to Halacha the accused Rabbis would never be convicted, however credible the accusations.

[Shmarya]

If you're so concerned with Halacha why do you omit the fact that according to Halacha an accused cannot be convicted of a crime without the credible testimony of two witnesses, who witnessed the crime from the beginning until the end, and who forewarned the accused before committing the crime?

According to Halacha the accused Rabbis would never be convicted, however credible the accusations.

Perhaps he just knows more than you.

Why do I say that?

Because you certainly do not know the halakha.

What happens in capital cases when there is an umdena of guilt is the criminal is put in kipa (a cell) until he dies of thirst and starvation or until God grants him a miracle.

Because normative halakha views a child abuser as a rodef, if a sanhedrin existed, a Mondrowitz or Kolko would end up in kipa (or, perhaps, kipa with food, water and mandatory chemical castration).

[steve]

Halacha clearly states that we must go to the authorities. The Rashba refers to this as "tikun olam". He states that if we were to strictly rely on the letter of the law of the Torah when it comes to convicting the perpetrators, it will ultimately lead to the destruction of our society. That is why in the case of a child molester who is a "rodef" there is a mitzvah to turn him over to the police. Anyone who preaches otherwise from the pulpit is a "zaken mamreh" and according to the letter of the law, is deserving of death.

[steve]

So you're not for the protection of victims of child abuse, after all. You're simply against the notion of Orthodox Judaism. Like the rest of you who commented before shmuel.

You are the one who is perverting Orthodox Judaism with your halachic pronouncements. Just like Rabbi Perlow who "divined" from the Torah to oppose the Markey bill. You and the Agudah are certainly not for the protection of children but for the protection of your assets.

[Shmarya]

Anyone who preaches otherwise from the pulpit is a "zaken mamreh" and according to the letter of the law, is deserving of death.

By the hand of God, not by man.

[steve]

FROM THE HEILIGE RABBONIM OF BALTIMORE:

"As such it is already well established by our own Poskim that an abuser is to be considered a Rodef (literally, a pursue"), effectively poised to destroy innocent lives and, therefore, virtually all means may be used to stop him and bring him to justice. Communities and day schools — with the blessing of Gedolei Yisroel — have encouraged and facilitated the reporting of these crimes to the local authorities, who are most equipped to investigate and prosecute these complex claims.

In the past, many mistakes were made in handling these situations. Abusers were often not recognized for what they were, as it was too difficult to believe that otherwise good people could do such things, nor was it sufficiently appreciated what damage such acts could cause. It was often thought that if the abuser was spoken to or warned, and perhaps moved to a different environment, he would never do these things again. In responding this way many terrible mistakes were made arid tragic consequences resulted. We have seen too often the immediate or eventual failure of these “behind-the-scenes agreements” to keep the perpetrators away from others. Naïveté and a lack of understanding of the insidious nature of these perpetrators have allowed the toll of victims to rise. These failures haunt us — but they also motivate us to respond more effectively and wisely in the future."

[steve]

Shmarya, I beg differ in regards to a Zaken Mamreh. The passuk in Devarim 17:12 that discusses such a person clearly states that he receives the death penalty and closes with "and you shall purge the evil from your midst". In order to sentence him to death:
1) He must be a Torah scholar.
2) He must deliberately refuse to accept a psak halacha from a bais din or someone of higher authority.
3) He must have ruled that others must act and adhere to his faulty psak.
4) His faulty ruling must be in regards to a law whose punishment for willful transgression is "karet".

Any rabbi who rules that reporting a child molester to the police is "mesira" and thereby causes untold numbers of additional acts of child molestation, certainly falls within this criteria. If we had a Sanhedrin today, such rabbis would be put to death.

[Shmarya]

steve –

Only if the Sanhedrin (or one of its lesser courts) had first ruled that the halakha follows the Rashba and that halakha applied to child sexual abuse.

If not, he wouldn't be a zaken mamre – he'd just be wrong.

But today, when we do not have a Sanhedrin, rabbis who may fall under the category of zaken mamre would only be punished by the hand of God.

Of course, knowing coverups of sexual abuse and leaving said sexual abusers in place may easily fall under other laws and would clearly be punishable by a beit din, just as they could be punished by a secular court.

[Genuk]

"If you're so concerned with Halacha why do you omit the fact that according to Halacha an accused cannot be convicted of a crime without the credible testimony of two witnesses, who witnessed the crime from the beginning until the end, and who forewarned the accused before committing the crime?"

Its actually the Agudah who professes to be the great defenders of Halacha that's the reason I mentioned it. The point being that Agudah's argument that the age of the accusations somehow taints their credibility, runs counter to Halachic notions of justice.

Your wrong in any event, besides for all of the other reasons stated before, because the Rema in Choshen Mishpat states that the testimony of women and children is acceptable in certain situations where they are the only witnesses.

Agudah does not represent orthodox judiasim. It represents rich self serving fat cats who have perverted and distorted true torah judiasim beyond all words and description. Calling for the resignation of Agudah is not a knock against orthodox judiasim its actually a step towards restoring some sorely needed integrity in our faith

[robert gonsalves]

NO WONDER G-- has punished the hebrew people over and over again.Why have the most accurate living scrolls in the world and yet we can't follow the word in them. All we do is walk around the words given to us pretending we know more than our fathers. A man knows in his heart when he has done wrong.