Army Rabbi Stops Female Soldier From Saying Kaddish In Synagogue

The soldier's grandmother had just passed away.

IDF prevents soldier from saying kaddish
Matthew Wagner , THE JERUSALEM POST

The Military Rabbinate denied a Masorti (Conservative) female soldier access to her army base's synagogue last week to recite the kaddish mourning prayer for her deceased grandmother.

Rabbi Eyal Krim, head of the IDF's Halacha Department, ruled in accordance with many Orthodox rabbis who forbid women from reciting kaddish in a synagogue, even when there are men reciting kaddish simultaneously.

Krim ruled instead that the soldier, who serves in a Nahal unit affiliated with the Masorti Movement's Noam youth organization, would be allowed to use a classroom on the base and assemble a quorum of women there.

However, the soldier, who initially abided by Krim's ruling and prayed in a classroom, opted instead to leave the base during the shiva for her grandmother and recite kaddish in a synagogue, Rabbi Barry Schlesinger, president of Masorti Movement's Rabbinical Assembly in Israel, said on Thursday.

"She felt rejected and discriminated against for being forced to pray outside the synagogue," Schlesinger said. "She wanted to honor her grandmother by reciting the kaddish in a house of prayer."

"But," he added, "I think the dialogue that took place between our movement and the IDF Chaplaincy during the incident helped deepen understanding that there are soldiers in the IDF who are religious but choose to express their faith in a way that does not necessarily fit the Orthodox rubric.

"These are young men and women who went to TALI schools [which provide pluralistic Jewish education], progressive high schools, and were members of our Noam youth movement. And they have a religious self-identification that obligates them to adhere to religious deeds such as saying kaddish for a deceased relative, but in a way that does not always fit in with Orthodox practice."

The IDF Spokesman's Office said in response, "Last week, a female soldier asked the rabbis of her army base if she could be allowed to organize a women-only minyan so that she could recite kaddish. Several options were offered which would allow the bereaved soldier to give expression to her faith while at the same time maintaining the customs of the synagogue on the base. In the end it was agreed that the soldier would be allowed to organize a minyan in a classroom in accordance with her faith. And that is what the soldier chose to do.

"It should be emphasized that the IDF is doing its best to respect and maintain its soldiers' freedom of religious expression in accordance with the different religious streams to which they belong."

The soldier, who plans to enter an officer training course, preferred anonymity out of concern that being publicly connected with the incident would hurt her army career.

The soldier was notified last week that her grandmother passed away. She was granted a seven-day leave by the IDF to enable her to take part in the mourning.

However, she opted to return to her base after one day, since the funeral was to take place in the US while she planned to remain in Israel.

The soldier's father, who traveled to the US for the funeral, asked his daughter to recite kaddish for her grandmother since there would not be a minyan at the home where he and other close relatives of the grandmother would be sitting shiva.

When the female soldier first turned to the rabbi of her base, he allowed her to recite the kaddish in the synagogue, in accordance with more lenient Orthodox rabbinical opinions, according to sources in the Masorti Movement.

However, an Orthodox female soldier on the base who apparently disapproved of the rabbi's decision notified her personal rabbi, who ruled that it was unacceptable to allow a woman to recite kaddish in the synagogue. Krim intervened and overturned the decision of the rabbi on the army base.

A source in the IDF said in response to the decision by the Conservative Movement to notify the media of the incident, "We are sorry that, despite the willingness and honest desire for cooperation on our part, Conservative rabbis chose not to exhaust channels of communication agreed upon in a meeting last week between the Conservative Movement and the IDF's Rabbinate."

The army source was referring to a meeting that took place between Schlesinger and Rabbi Andrew Sacks, director of the Rabbinical Assembly in Israel, Krim and IDF Chief Rabbi Brig.-Gen. Avichai Ronski. The meeting took place before the kaddish dispute became known.

Sources in the Conservative Movement said in response that "this incident has shown clearly that attempts to create channels of communication with the IDF Rabbinate have failed. IDF rabbis are unable or unwilling to provide our soldiers with the desired religious freedom they need. We see our only option as turning directly to the chief of the General Staff."

Orthodox rabbis who oppose women reciting kaddish argue that it weakens the legal strength of generations of custom. It also gives the false impression, they say, that a woman can be counted as one of 10 people needed to complete a minyan. Rabbis are also concerned about the prohibition of hearing a woman's voice in public, which could lead to sexual fantasizing. Finally, they note, the textual source for the custom of reciting kaddish refers solely to males.

In contrast, Orthodox rabbis who argue in favor of the practice say that women, like men, have an obligation to sanctify God's name by declaring their continued faith in God despite their bereavement. In addition, recitation of the kaddish is a way of respecting the deceased relative. Also, the practice is seen as a way for the person reciting the kaddish to come closer to God. Finally, these Orthodox rabbis argue that being more open to women's desire to honor the deceased prevents them from having to resort to Conservative Judaism.

In contrast, most Conservative rabbis have a completely gender-equal approach to religious adherence with both men and women able to perform all ritual acts, including serving as a rabbi, being counted along with men in a minyan, reading from the Torah and reciting kaddish.

The Military Rabbinate's ruling on the recitation of kaddish could also pose a problem for Orthodox female soldiers from more liberal streams within Orthodoxy. There are numerous educational institutions and communities such as the Shalom Hartman Institute's Midrashiya high school for girls and the Kehilat Shira Hadasha congregation, both in the capital, which view themselves as Orthodox but which promote a more egalitarian role for women in prayer and other roles.

This is not the first time Conservative soldiers have clashed with the IDF's Rabbinate. Last Yom Kippur, a group of Conservative female soldiers were denied the right to organize a minyan and use the Torah scroll on an army base.

[Hat Tip: Chicago Sam.]

Comments

[Dr. dave]

Are they going to court martial her for saying kaddish?

[S]

In Australia a chabad rabbi in an orthodox synagogue allows women to say Kaddish(behind a mechitsa) This is not the only orthodox synagogue that this happedns. I don't see the problem (She is not singing and anyhow other men usually but not always say Kaddish as well)

[radical feminist]

maybe they're going to get sexually aroused by hearing her pray for her dead grandmother?

[A. Nuran]

If the men's sensibilities are so delicate that they will lose their faith and get eerections at the sound of a woman praying they are obviously not fit to be in a synagogue. They should be the ones who leave.

[Letz B. Frank]

It seems that you responders don't like Judaism.

[Yoel B]

...an Orthodox female soldier on the base who apparently disapproved of the rabbi's decision notified her personal rabbi, who ruled that it was unacceptable to allow a woman to recite kaddish in the synagogue. Krim intervened and overturned the decision of the rabbi on the army base.

The mara d'atra, the base rabbi approved. The troublemaking soldier should have been disciplined and her "personal rabbi" should have told her to butt out.

[itchiemayer]

Women can say kaddish in a minyan. However, since it was her grandmother, I would say the father should have had someone else (yes, a male) do it.
That being said, I certainly think she should have been allowed to say it. This was not a fight worth picking. Also, women should say it in a quieter fashion.
Just my opinion. Again, it was not a fight worth picking at all.

[Jacob]

re: It seems that you responders don't like Judaism

As well as the board host.

[Hometown Postville]

They can't walk the same side of the street, talk in the same building, bare their heads... how do these couples reproduce if their presence is so vile??? Do they don a surgeon's cape with only the needed parts exposed? Woman was made as a "companion" for man, but guess which version this Rabbi chose according to Merriam Webster:
1:one that accompanies/keeps company with another
2(obsolete): rascal
3a:one that is closely connected with something similar b:one employed to live with and serve another
4:a celestial body that appears close to another but that may or may not be associated with it in space
Sound like #4, huh?

[rabbidw]

It is more exceptable to say kaddish with a real minyan than with a woman's prayer service, which is not, in the Orthodox view, a minyan at all. Kaddish can only be said with a minyan. It is nobody's business what a woman says behind a mechitza. The men talk sbout sports and the stock market and nobody stops them.

[Chicago Samson]

++If the men's sensibilities are so delicate that they will lose their faith and get eerections at the sound of a woman praying they are obviously not fit to be in a synagogue. They should be the ones who leave.++

I agree with A.Nuran's observation. If the men cannot control themselves, they should get some serious therapy.

Women have been allowed to say Kaddish for centuries and people for the most part did not interfere.

[MisterApikoros]

Jacob, we love Jews, otherwise we wouldn't be here. What we detest is when a bunch of bearded frumbags try to hijack a basic principal of religious freedom so that worship of the God of Jews and Gentiles alike can only be done THEIR way.

[Equal T i m e]

I missing something - under what rules of hallachah is someone (regardless of gender) required to say kaddish for a grandparent? The father's request - while touching, isn't particularly meaningful because the obligation is HIS and he is not allowed to delegate it.

[Shmarya]

The responsibility can be delegated. It's done all the time.

[Nachum]

This Krim guy is really sad. It's halakhically allowed (according to many) for a woman to say Kaddish. It's *not* allowed, according to many, to have a "minyan" of women. So what does he do? He forbids the former and encourages the latter.

He encourages it, of course, because of regulations. Thus bureaucracy and ignorance go hand in hand to corrupt authentic Judaism.

[invisible hand]

I have been to a bunch of funerals led by frum Orthodox rabbis and never seen female members of the deceased's family NOT say Kaddish. The family and the rabbi wouldn't say Kaddish at all without a minyan of 10 adult Jewish males (and even a non-Orthodox Jew like me counts in the 10), but when it is being recited, everybody recites it.
Perhaps U.S. orthodoxy should be declared issur by the IDF's chaplains.

[OTD]

When my husband died I took our son to shul everyday so he could say kaddish; I stayed and said it from my side of the mechitza. Three minyanim a day for 358 days and nobody ever questioned my presence.

[Michael Makovi]

This is garbage. In Equality Lost, Rabbi Yehuda Herzl Henkin discusses the issue of women saying kaddish.

ALL of the traditional literature says women may not. But why?

Says Rabbi Henkin: back then, ONE individual said Kaddish for the whole congregation. Therefore, it was immodest for a woman to come down from the gallery, ascend the bima, and Kaddish.

Without even having to deal with the question of whether we'd consider this immodest today, Rabbi Henkin says that since today, the whole congregation says Kaddish simultaneously, there's no basis to forbid women to say Kaddish. What's the issue with women saying it to themselves while they stand behind the mehitzah? The situation is entirely unlike that of the earlier authorities, and so what they wrote is entirely inapplicable.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Krim iz krum.

[radical feminist]

The troublemaking soldier should have been disciplined..

Disciplined for wanting to grieve for a dead grandmother. The nerve! That uppity woman. Maybe she should have been whipped, that would teach the others not to try a stunt like that.

[OTD]

RF,

I'm pretty sure "troublemaking soldier" refers to the one who complained, not the one who was saying kaddish.

[radical feminist]

OTD
your right. the Orthodox women reminds me of the Jews that helped the Nazi's find hidden Jews During the war.
A Jewish woman betraying another Jewish woman to abusive authorities.

[rabbiyaacov]

This army "rabbi" should go back to yeshiva and this "orthodoc" female soldier should relearn her alef-bais. As is mentioned above, Rav Henkin had no problem with it as well as many others.

Both of these individuals "rabbi" and "orthodox" Need to remember compassion as well.

True then father would (and should) be saying kaddish for his mother but who is to say there is a regular minyan where he lives. His daughter has no obligation to say kaddish for her grandmother but it helps her in her mourning and I am sure her grandmother is comforted by her kaddish. Also, the father, if he is not sayong kaddish certainly arranged for it.

Where's the love people?

Rabbi Yaacov (orthodox)

[Yoel B]

I'm pretty sure "troublemaking soldier" refers to the one who complained, not the one who was saying kaddish.

Exactly. I'm sorry for not having been clearer. Some years ago, I became friends with a man who was in town for a few years as a postdoctoral fellow. He's Sephardi, knows a lot, is fairly machmir, has a rav. The local rabbi at the time was Ashkenazi, and his whole hashkafa was different from my friend's.
My friend made a point of taking almost all of his she'elot to the local rabbi instead of emailing or phoning his rav. (IIRC his rav confirmed he should do this.)
This case proves the wisdom of this approach. If the "personal rabbi" had followed it, this whole chillul Hashem would never have happened.

[Equal T i m e]

--It's done all the time.--

Didn't say it wasn't done - I am saying it's not hallachic. (unless you know of some sources I do not)

[Neo-Conservaguy]

When the female soldier first turned to the rabbi of her base, he allowed her to recite the kaddish in the synagogue, in accordance with more lenient Orthodox rabbinical opinions, according to sources in the Masorti Movement.

However, an Orthodox female soldier on the base who apparently disapproved of the rabbi's decision notified her personal rabbi, who ruled that it was unacceptable to allow a woman to recite kaddish in the synagogue. Krim intervened and overturned the decision of the rabbi on the army base.

That was the real problem. The rabbi of her base made a well-balanced decision, one that preserved the orthodox concept of minyan and also facilitated the woman to say qaddish with the intention of making a qiddush haShem. What happened after that decision is everything that is wrong with the Orthodox movement today.

[Yoel B]

It sounds from the news story as though the "Orthodox female soldier" who complained is a kochleffel and the the woman saying kaddish got caught in the Orthodox/Masorti crossfire.

[Equal T i m e]

-- (unless you know of some sources I do not)--

Did some study during the day today. Delegating kaddish in the narrow circumstances of when you are unable to attend a minyon IS hallachic.

Mea culpa.

[Alan Abbey]

The kind of rigid, knee-jerk (or is something else jerked?) reaction by IDF rabbis continues to suggest the ongoing religious fanaticism occurring in the IDF's chaplaincy ranks, as evidenced during Op Cast Lead, where there were some disturbing reports of what rabbis were saying to soldiers.

Find our more of the Shalom Hartman Institute Midrashiya - Experimental, Creative, Religious High School for Girls in Jerusalem - http://www.hartman.org.il/Center_Edu/Program_View.asp?Program_Id=12

[Office of the Chief Rabbi]

Alan - nice to see you here. I hope Sheryl's road trip with my British counterpart was successful. I keep meaning to order the siddur, may it speedily replace fArtscroll.

[itchiemayer]

if the granddaughter has never been in aveilus before, and never had to say kaddish, then she should not say it for her grandmother unless there is no alternative. I'm confident an alternative could be found. Even if she had a brother, it would be inappropriate for him to say kaddish on his grandmother if he himseld has never been an avel.

[LJ]

Just discovered this magnificent site today. Oh, all the years I spent trying to be orthodox and feminist. Shmarya - you just wasted 20. I divorced orthodox Judaism last week in a private silent non-ceremony after almost half a century. It was like leaving a deaf and blind indifferent husband. He didn't hear me say I was leaving but then he never had heard me (a woman's voice and all that). He didn't see me leave but then I always was hidden behind layers of wood and a curtain just to be sure. He didn't care then and he doesn't care now. At least I managed to get out of the "relationship"- he didn't deny me the "get".
I will not be manipulated any more.
I remain a committed, independent, proud, Zionist, Israeli Jew I remain a committed, independent, proud, Zionist, Israeli Jew and now I hope to serve Hashem without that "little help from my friends".

[radical feminist]

I remain a committed, independent, proud, Zionist, Israeli Jew I remain a committed, independent, proud, Zionist,

Me too
welcome home

[Yoel B]

Conservative Girl (hence CG) asked the base rabbi about saying kaddish. He approved.
To take it any farther you have to have a really good reason to think he didn't know what he was doing.
For some reason, maybe pure, maybe not, Orthodox Girl (hence OG) didn't like it. She goes to her personal rabbi (hence PR.)
Did PR contact the base rabbi? Did he find out that itchiemayer's halachic concerns hadn't been addressed -- or that they had, but he disagreed anyway? If it's the first possibility, it sounds as though the Army Rabbinate tried its best but got caught in the Orthodox/Conservative political struggle. If it's the second, then PR's conduct was reprehensible, since there is solid halachic ground to allow a woman to say kaddish, and it used to be considered to be a grave thing to dispute the psak of the mara d'atra.
I have no evidence for it, but reading between the lines it sounds to me as though OG had a bee in her bonnet about something, and that bee got under a bunch of kippot, too.
Actually, the interesting thing to me was that Rabbi Krim ruled that even though CG was not allowed to say kaddish with a kosher minyan, a gathering of 10 women would allow her to say kaddish!

I was under the impression that most poskim who approve of women's prayer groups do not permit kaddish, etc.

[Neo-Conservaguy]

Women can say kaddish in a minyan... Also, women should say it in a quieter fashion.
Just my opinion.

Why? I am not familiar with a model that provides louder/quieter recitation of any blessings that would desire/require a response from the kehilah. How can people answer, "Amen!", if they cannot hear the statement? There is no room for some perceived value of "demureness" imposed upon a woman when it comes to these matters. Rather, the model is: "Is you is, or ain't you ain't" saying a blessing, baby.

[Not at all conservative]

Ten women would be like the requirements of Ireland. Women witnessed women and men witnessed men. But, for the court, a man had to witness the last day of a legal protest (maybe this was only after Christianity was introduced).
Speaking as a U.S. ex-military, the military rabbi shouldn't be taking orders from a civilian rabbi. And the orthodox woman should have been disciplined (by her commander).