Agriprocessors Beef Line Said Flooded, Inoperable

How will this impact the plant's new owner?

I had a credible report from Postville earlier this week that Agriprocessors' beef line is flooded, with much of the equipment ruined and beyond repair.

I just spoke with another extremely credible source who was in Postville for the raid anniversary 10 days ago. He told me he spoke with many Agriprocessors workers who told him about that flooding.

What does this mean for the sale of Agriprocessors, the sale that is to be announced in a few minutes?

I think it means Agriprocessors will be primarily a poultry facility for the foreseeable future. It will also process cold cuts, some of them beef. This will be done by buying beef from other producers. Or it will be done because the buyer is working as a front or in partnership with another kosher beef producer – perhaps Satmar hasid-owned Alle Processing.

We should know soon.

Comments

[Max]

The flooded area is in the basement where the motors that drive the beef line hydraulic system are located. They have been flooded since November, 2008 which means that most of that equipment would have to be replaced.
Water in the basement at Agri has always been a problem. That is where the main lunch room was for the workers and water dripping down the walls as well as standing water in the lunch was an ongoing problem. Eventually, OSHA forced them to close the lunch room.

[Yochanan Lavie]

I am tempted to call this Divine retribution.

[Scott Prahl]

For one thing, there are no pumps for the beef line in the basement!! All are located behind the rabbi room. Second of all, if there was standing water in the basement, USDA would shut them down!! Even if the beef side was not running! They can't have that kind of health hazard in or near the plant!! Your "source" needs to check his eyes and quit smoking the good stuff!

[Hometown Postville]

You know Y.L.- you are absolutely right! We spend lots of time speculating or ruminating about what will or what has happened or who did what. God has had a plan in mind all along and it is the best one yet!

[State of Postville]

What Scott says is exactly right. If they USDA saw one teeny tiny thing out of place they shut them down immediately. He should know, he was(and maybe still is) their electrician for years.

[2nd shift QA]

The beef kill area is not flooded. i walk through it daily. and it runs every time i turn the chain on. always someone telling a bunch of lies.

[Dark Side of The Moon]

A little flood water is nothing. I'm surprised "Jewish Lightening" hasn't struck the plant yet.

[Curious Postville Native]

Greetings Yochanan-

I agree. I am prompted to add ‘Divine Intervention’. G_d intervenes when absolutely necessary. G_d’s will prevails.

[Shmarya]

What Scott says is exactly right. If they USDA saw one teeny tiny thing out of place they shut them down immediately. He should know, he was(and maybe still is) their electrician for years.

The USDA does N-O-T inspect the basement or other non-food areas. It barely inspects food areas. And there have been specific problems with the USDA in kosher plants – especially in Agri. Bad things happen and inspectors are not allowed to shut the plant down. You can try googling USDA on this website to see details.

[mordecai]

WHEN IT RAINS IT POURS!

[s]

there is basement flooding in a commercial building across the street down from Vesterheim (Decorah) sure wish some plumber could fix.

[state of Disgust]

Scott, where are the hydraulic motors that run the Weinberg pen?

[Scott Prahl]

What is the Weinberg pen?

[state of disgust]

It is the pen used to slaughter cattle. The cow enters and the pen inverts so that the ritual slaughter can perform the cut.

[fair is fair]

Schmayra,
Where do you get your info. the USDA most certainly checks all areas of this facility and that includes the basement and other areas not in contact with food. You need to get your facts straight. The USDA is constantly checking the food product and other areas. I don't know where your always get your info, but lies lies lies. The USDA can shut down at any time any part of the property inside or outside.

[steve]

Their "GLATT KOSHER" chicken is still available. Since Sarachek ramped up the production, they made sure to put "GLATT KOSHER" in big bold letters on the package.

[Shmarya]

Where do you get your info. the USDA most certainly checks all areas of this facility and that includes the basement and other areas not in contact with food. You need to get your facts straight. The USDA is constantly checking the food product and other areas. I don't know where your always get your info, but lies lies lies. The USDA can shut down at any time any part of the property inside or outside.

I suggested you do a search for USDA on this website. You did not do it.

Do it. You'll learn something.

Where do I get my information?

The USDA.

[Equal T i m e]

--Do it. You'll learn something.--

Can you narrow the search a bit? I can't find anything to support that they do or do NOT inspect non-food areas.

[Max]

The USDA inspects for food safety. However much of what you think is food safety actual falls under ther perview of OSHA. Hydraulic systems, flooding in the plant etc are OSHA issues. Water in the basement is only a USDA issue if there is contamination of tools etc that come into direct contact with food. On the other hand rodent investations are a USDA concern. Overhead conveyors which can injure a worker are not considered USDA concern unless there is a visible amount of food stuck in the machine that could cause contamination.
IOSHA asked numerous time to be allowed into the Agri in order to inspect. Unless there is a complaint they cannot do so .. unless they get a court order. So every time they showed up at the door, Agri staff would tell them to go and get a court order. Gee, you'd think they had something to hide.
BTW, the lunchroom under the plant was ordered closed, but Agri continued to use it. It was only after a court order was issued that Agri closed and sealed the room.

[Shmarya]

Can you narrow the search a bit? I can't find anything to support that they do or do NOT inspect non-food areas.

Besides what Max just wrote, you can look at the search again and you'll see the USDA barely inspects food production. Inspectors have their hands toed by decisions made in Washington during the early Bush years and not yet overturned.

[2nd shift QA]

Shmarya,

is there a usda employee at agri you get your info from? if so, do you care to share there name?

[yidandahalf]

steve's info imparted at 2:05, amazing and scary. There is now chicken sold that is glatt, advertised as glatt, labelled as glatt. This means that McHechsher has succeeded in the reclassifying the nomenclature of kashrus and is reinventing itself. That is really fantastic, it shows how our people have remained in existence for millenia even though many entities have tried to extinguish us. We can adapt and survive. The rabbonim of the OU are showing us the way, we can have a Jewish equivelent of the Long March now safely and no one will think we have totally lost it.

[yidandahalf]

The Agri apologists keep piping up with their USDA propaganda. We get it, this sort of crap has been posted forever. Wake up. Everyone knows about the USDA. Your shitpile of a plant is not slaughtering cows and your glory days are over. A few puny posts here now and then serve only to re-establish your ignorance, lack of morality, and pitiful education.
Put Heshy on, him we'll talk to.

[steve]

The only one's that mark poultry as "Glatt" are Rubashkin and Empire. Rubashkin's label is much more conspicuous. I'm not sure who started this deceptive advertising. The OU should put an end to it immediately as they have their logo on both brands. Then again, their logo on both brands is also deceptive advertising.

[state of disgust]

The people at Agri and Empire were confronted over the use of term GLATT in reference to chicken. Their response: "what can we do - its just marketing." One should ask Geneck if he personally inspects the lungs of each and every chicken that comes out of these plants.(They'll tell you they inspect more then just lungs. That they check for pendulus crop, abnormal intestinal growths, etc. That is true. But they doen't inspect each and every bird. They conduct "spot checks." It would not be economical for them to check every item for each and every bird.)

[steve]

None of the other brands such as Kiryas Yoel, Vineland, Chabura and Marvid, dare claim that their poultry is "glatt" kosher or "more" kosher, even though any brand is more reliable than Rubashkin.

[Curious Postville Native]

I have a friend, a USDA inspector, who left the Agriprocessor facility because her conscience did not permit her integrity to be compromised. [Posted by: Shmarya | May 23, 2009 at 09:57 PM], most assuredly, has merit. I will not, therefore, discount the flooding concern without certain proof. That is all.

[eye for an eye]

If you think that USDA doens't inspect the plant, than why are there so many NR's written over the years. If you actually knew anything about the FSIS inspection process, you would be dangerous, but I don't think you know sh-t! The USDA does inspect 100% of the site in which they oversee. As far as your inspector, whom I am guessing is initials (MM) got her teet in a ringer a few times by not following proper procedures. But I don't think she will coment on that!!! She will say "I don't know what you are talking about"

[eye for an eye]

OHH - In case you don't know what NR stands for it means noncompliance report

[state of disgust]

The USDA can write all the NR's they want to -- and they may on occassion take steps to enforce them. But anything dealing with worker safety - training, avulsions, falls, cuts, broken bones, stabbings, donning and doffing, sanitary lunch rooms, proper equipment -- overtime pay, etc, these are OSHA problems and FSIS has nothing to do with them. And neither OSHA nor FSIS have anything to say about environmental issues. That is the perview of EPA.
Now if you want to make an argument that there should be permanent OSHA and EPA inspectors in the plant (just like USDA) we could have a good discussion.
No?
You don't want to go there?
Didn't think so.
Of course had the OU been doing its job and not been cherry picking which of the halacha it wanted to enforce, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

[Shmarya]

If you think that USDA doens't inspect the plant, than why are there so many NR's written over the years. If you actually knew anything about the FSIS inspection process, you would be dangerous, but I don't think you know sh-t! The USDA does inspect 100% of the site in which they oversee. As far as your inspector, whom I am guessing is initials (MM) got her teet in a ringer a few times by not following proper procedures. But I don't think she will coment on that!!! She will say "I don't know what you are talking about"

You could try Googling FSIS and "USDA inspectors" on this site. You'll see I interviewed lots of FSIS people – including in Washington, DC.

You'll also see pretty clearly that you are at least as ignorant as you are rude.

[Curious Postville Native]

[Now if you want to make an argument that there should be permanent OSHA and EPA inspectors in the plant (just like USDA) we could have a good discussion.
No?
You don't want to go there?
Didn't think so.]

[Posted by: state of disgust | May 26, 2009 at 06:47 PM], equally has merit. I will not, therefore, discount the flooding concern without certain proof. That is all.

. . and if you are so certain your information is correct, identify yourself.

[Curious Postville Native]

eye for an eye-

[You don't want to go there?
Didn't think so.]

Thanks state of disgust.

[fair is fair]

The USDA has every right to contact OSHA, just like anyone else can. The plant had issues just like any other plant. Plant Management just went around the horn as best they could to just get by to meet compliance. You are correct in saying that OU should be to blame as well. As far as what eye for an eye said, way to go. USDA has had there OSHA staff in the plant as well for safety concerns, including those reported by USDA staff. Those reported by USDA staff and investigated found no merit. It was just a way want to go home to get out of work

[Shmarya]

The USDA has every right to contact OSHA, just like anyone else can.

Please.

Iowa is a state plan state. That means all enforcement is done by the state of Iowa, not the feds.

And you forget that Agriprocessors refused to let state OSHA inspectors in the plant.

And the idea that the USDA brought in OSHA and OSHA found the USDA's complaints to be be baseless is wrong. It is also foolish. And it is also ignorant. Either that, or both you and e4e are lying, because it did not happen.

[State of Postville III]

Lest one forget the plant was fined numerous times for safety issues--large amounts of money, then the fines would be reduced considerably-one instance $70,000 to $4,000. This was state. One can wonder why the state reduced these fines and never collected them per media. If this place is sold, and the state is working "so diligently" to obtain a sale due to the unemployment in this area, will area people be employed or more of the "imports" from all over the world?

[Curious Postville Native]

SOPIII-

[If this place is sold, and the state is working "so diligently" to obtain a sale due to the unemployment in this area, will area people be employed or more of the "imports" from all over the world?]

I will be asking this question at the next strategy meeting (. . . and everywhere else I can 'introduce', 'interject', &/or 'invoke' this concern.)

[sage]

Hi CPN,

Just for information, what happened at the last "Strategy Meeting"?

Was any Agri person there, and, if so, did he make any positive contributions?

It's been almost a week since Sarachek said that a sale was imminent.

Seems to me that the whole mess is still bogged down.

If the plant is sold and employs locals, it will have to be with Living Wages, ability to Unionize, Health Insurance Available, etc.

It doesn't seem to me that any buyer that Sarachek may have in mind will be able to offer any of these.

But, if the State of Iowa buys the plant, or subsidizes its purchase by an honest business concern, there's hope.

[Curious Postville Native]

Sage- REQUEST A COPY OF THE SUMMARY REPORT—

Jeff Schott
Institute of Public Affairs
University of Iowa
319-335-7586 (ofc)
319-329-6207 (cell)
jeff-schott@uiowa.edu

REQUEST A COPY OF:

POSTVILLE, IOWA LONG-TERM COMMUNITY RECOVERY STRATEGY MEETING

SUMMARY REPORT
MAY 19, 2009
Facilitated by: Jeff Schott

[State of Postville III]

There is a complimentary letter in the P-Herald today stating we are, indeed, a compassionate people. There has been such negative reports and complaining about the past year. Life is change, and bemoaning the fact of the "raid" which was precipitated by criminal actions at the plant, can not be the future of this town. Until the plant issue is resolved it is difficult to rebuild image and reputation. Parkersburg, New Hartford had a traumatic tornado, but were able to move on and rebuild without continuous self-pity. Postville needs a chance to rebuild with pride. There is industry here, build on that foundation.

[Curious Postville Native]

Sage-

[Was any Agri person there . . . ?]

Though,a seemingly simple question, it is actually a rather difficult question to answer.

If you count Yossi and Meir Rubashkin as representation of the Agriprocessors facility, then yes.

? ? ? ? ?

[sage]

Hi CPN,

I interpret this to mean the following:

1. Yossi and Meir did not have any productive input at the meeting.

2. They were primarily present for intelligence gathering and/or intimidation.

BTW, I will try to get the written report from Jeff Schott.

[State of Postville 2]

Sage - I sat at the table with Yossi and felt he had some very productive input. He came across (to me at least) as wanting to see a viable solution this mess that would benefit all involved.

[sage]

Thanks, SOP II.

I'm glad to hear this, but a viable solution must be an Agri that would employ local residents, pay living wages, permit workers to unionize, pay or subsidize health insurance, etc.

If Yossi has this in mind, does he have the cajones to see it implemented, in spite of the predilictions of the RCF?

[State of Postville 2]

Sage - I agree with everything you just outlined as a viable solution. The difficulties, I think, do not lie with the "RCF" making those things happen. I still believe as complicit as they were in all that has happened here because of what and how things have transpired, the "RCF" were simply willing accomplices to the much larger and more powerful Orthodox Union.

Although the "RCF" stands to lose a great deal if they do not retain (at the very least) an operating interest in the plant, the OU stands to lose a great deal more.

They will fight hard and dirty to keep that plant under their control.

[sage]

Thanks, again, SOP II.

Your analysis hits a point that few have wanted to confront head on.

Taking down the OU Kashrut Administration, through Federal Criminal Prosecution is, IMHO, the only way to rid the Jewish World of this ongoing Chillul HaShem.

Many on this site are in favor of RICO Prosecution of the RCF, Agri and the Kosher Certification Agencies that aided and abetted all of the criminal activity.

This is something that the new Iowa Federal AG should pursue.

[Curious Postville Native]

Sage-

I agree with [Posted by: State of Postville 2 | May 28, 2009 at 07:26 AM]

I posted on an earlier post [Uncertainty Tests Postville's Jews] -

[YG selected to work with the group I was participating with-'City Infrastructure'. He was very receptive to the idea of working together, recognizing unity as a crucial element in 're-establishing' our small city.
Posted by: Curious Postville Native | May 20, 2009 at 08:39 AM]

I agree with SOPII -

[Although the "RCF" stands to lose a great deal if they do not retain (at the very least) an operating interest in the plant, the OU stands to lose a great deal more.]

The OU is the 'puppeteer'. The Rubashkins, most assuredly, are the OU puppets.

[State of Postville 2]

"...hits a point that few have wanted to confront head on."

That's precisely what the OU is counting on. The less said by the people who use the "certified" products, the more likely they are to get away with fleecing everyone associated with their corrupt operations.

[State of Postville 2]

I would like to ask Mr. Prahl, who posted earlier there is no water in the basement, if he might be able to provide us with a photo of the basement showing there is no water.

It's hard for me to believe anyone concocting a falsehood about the condition of the plant would think water in the basement would be a damning statement about the operation as it stands today.

Secondly, I would encourage folks to join me in contacting the Iowa Civil Liberties Union about the practice of firing workers and hiring them back at a lower rate of pay. According to the Iowa AG's office, this all perfectly legal under Iowa's "right to work" law.

This is nothing more than worker abuse...legally sanctioned worker abuse at that.

It's time for a change.

[sage]

Also, it's Halachically illegal to pay workers less than the "Living Wage" for the geographical area they are employed in.

[State of Postville 2]

Sage -

Being Halachically correct has never been a major concern for the RCF or the OU. They are only concerned with their own bank accounts...collateral damage be damned!

[sage]

+++ I would like to ask Mr. Prahl, who posted earlier there is no water in the basement, if he might be able to provide us with a photo of the basement showing there is no water. +++

Better for some impartial group to be given access to the Agri basement in question to see for themselves.

Mr. Prahl could provide a picture of "some other basement" with no water and say: "Here's the proof."

But the Saracheck ongoing refusal to allow interested third parties access into Agri remains a stumbling block to be overcome.

[Curious Postville Native]

Greetings Sage-

[But the Saracheck ongoing refusal to allow interested third parties access into Agri remains a stumbling block to be overcome.]

Mr. Sarachek is taking this obvious measure of control to ensure/assure the outcome of the sale, maximizing the likelihood the buyer will be a party already affiliated with the 'Agriprocessors' facility.

Please note-

The goal is . . . to replace the tattered, torn 'front' cover. However, the content of the book will remain the same.

[Curious Postville Native]

Sage-

If you are unable to access the 'Summary Report', please post that you were unable to do so. I will work with you in making sure you receive a copy. The 'Summary Report' is paramount in bonding/participating in this endeavor, thereby, honoring the best interest(s) of the various components, intermingled as a result of this unique combination of circumstances.

[state of disgust]

The role of the OU in this mess is quite interesting – and frustrating.
Clearly, the OU was not involved in bank fraud, shorting of worker paychecks, sexual predatory behavior, or child welfare endangerment. These clearly occurred willfully or through the negligence of the owners. What the OU is guilty of is: A) failure to adequate provide oversight and insure the kashrut of products; B) selective enforcement of halachic standards; C) failure to report and/or take action re physical abuse of employees – sometimes at the hands of Rabbonim; D) Reliance upon others (Rav Wiesmandl) to verify the kashrut of products to the detriment of the kosher consumer; E) failure to use the threat of removal of their hechsher from Agri products, in order to force change at the plant – and probably a million other failures I’m sure others on this list can supply.
Members of the OU Board have said the staff refused to give up the Agri cash cow which they said would only result in the OU being replaced by some other hoshgocha granting organization. Consequently, Agri leadership knew the threats made by the OU were meaningless. To this day, Agriprocessor products have carried the OU imperator continuously without so much as one day’s interruption. The OU could have done something and they did not. It is not a sin of commission that occurred, but the sin of omission … and it continues.
The OU’s narrow interpretation of the laws of kashrut has done enormous damage to the image of kashrut in this country. I am not talking about the image of kashrut in the non-Jewish community, although that certainly has happened. Rather I am talking about the image of kashrut among our children. The hypocrisy is simply overwhelming. Every year the frum community points to the incredible birth rate among frum families and says look at how fast we are growing. What they don’t emphasize is the large number of children from orthodox families who leave the community each year because of blatant contradictions such as this, child abuse, etc. The OU is morally bankrupt and rotting from the inside. The stench of decay is overwhelming. And so, on the cusp of change in ownership at Agri does anyone really expect there will be a change at this plant?

[sage]

Amen, SOD!!!!!

Your incredible post mirrors the views of countless other frustrated people, Jews and Gentiles alike.

CPN, I'll follow through and try to get the 'Summary Report' after Shavuot, which begins very shortly here in VA.

Agri must never be allowed to be taken over again by the RCF or anyone else associated with it and we must also pray for Federal RICO Charges to be filed against the RCF, Agri, the OU, Weissmandl, etc.