Kiryas Joel Garden Of Eden, Jewish Week Editor Says

Details:

Route 17: Associate Editor Jonathan Mark on Just About Everything
Experts Wrong: No Link Between Crime & Poverty

New Census Bureau data released last week revealed that Kiryas Joel, the all-Satmar village (pop. 21,000) in upstate Orange County, is the poorest community in the entire United States, based on several economic criteria, such as the percentage living below the poverty line, the percentage on food stamps and median income. In alll the 50 states, only Carbondale, Illinois ($15,799) has a lower median income than Kiryas Joel. ($15,848).

Says The Times Herald-Record, Kiryas Joel “is poorer than crumbling big cities like Detroit and noted slums like East St. Louis.” Experts in this paper and elsewhere link KJ’s poverty to the village’s religious culture and the pressure to have many children.

And yet, THR’s great expert, Samuel Heilman, professor of Jewish Studies at Queens College, misses one extraordinary fact: There is virtually no crime in Kiryas Joel, beyond some broken windows and the occassional punch in the nose related to internal Satmar rivalries.

For many decades, we’ve been told by hundreds of professors and hundreds of editorials that poverty breeds crime, even terrorism, but there are no professors or editorials praising Kiryas Joel for having almost no crime despite the worst poverty, let alone explaining how this is possible. To doubt that poverty causes crime on the college campus is like doubting the certainty of global warming.

According to BestPlaces.net, which ranks communities according to FBI data on a scale from 1 (best) to 10 (worst), in violent crime and property crime, Kiryas Joel gets the best possible grade (1) in both categories. Carbondale (the city closest in median income) ranks 5 in violent crime, 7 in property. Buffalo, N. Y. has long been in a downward economic spiral, and ranks 8 and 7. In Westchester, White Plains, ranked 2 and 5. Most Jews may not realize it, but Sullivan County’s Monticello has become the devil’s plaground, with an 8 in violent crime; 7 in property crime. New York City ranks 6 and 5.

(Violent crime includes murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. The US average is 3. Property crime includes burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft, and arson. The US average is 3.)

How is it not a front-page story everywhere when a town that ranks worst in poverty, is ranked the safest, particularly when the median age there is 14 – teenagers, the worst demographic for crime?

Perhaps the answer is, simply, they love God and God’s laws. Many people call Satmar “extremists.” That’s true. They have extremely low crime, defying the social scientists because they won’t defy God.

Instead of blaming the families of Kiryas Joel for bringing on poverty by bringing up so many children, the opposite is true. The strength of the families is a blessing. The families of Kiryas Joel are the reason crime is so low. The biggest statistical tip-off to a high crime rate is children being raised by unwed single mothers. There are no – zero – unwed single mothers in Kiryas Joel. The lack of crime reflects that.

In no particular order:

1. There a no single unwed mothers in Kiryas Joel that the public knows about. That does not mean there are no single unwed mothers. There are. But Satmar doesn't rush to advertise this or to get state aid, bexcause of the shame publicity brings. Past that, Stmar children marry at 17 or 18 by decree, not by choice, and any unwed pregnacy can be swiftly turned into a pre-birth marriage. And this is what happens.
2. Kiryas Joel is a homogeneous community. It is so in part because of illegal tactics employed by Satmar to keep it that way. Homogeneous communities usually have lower rates of violent crime. In most societies, violence is saved for the Other, not your cousin or neighbor.
3. Past that, stealing from or injuring community members – or simply deviating from community norms in a small way – can easily lead to expulsion – which itself leads to loss of income, housing, social services and social networks. In other words, the costs of committing crimes against other community members are usually too high to make the crimes worthwhile.
4. But, while these crimes still happen, police are not called except in very rare cases. Crimes and other disputes are handled internally and therefore do not show up in census data or crime statistics. That does not mean these crimes do not happen.
5.  Rampant welfare fraud, tax dodges, and other illegal scams permeate haredi society. Kiryas Joel is no exception.
6. And there is the issue of sexual molestation of children and the coverups that go hand in hand with it.
7. Yemenite Jews were held against their will in Kiryas Joel. (That would be kidnapping, Jonathan.)
8. And we also have the issue of teenage kids who do not want to be Satmar hasidim and how those children are treated by Kiryas Joel and Satmar.

In short, Mark is either woefully ignorant or lying. Either way, he should not be an editor at the Jewish Week.

Kiryas Joel Housing Fraud.

Kiryas Joel Modesty Patrol.

Unchosen.

Comments

[MalachHamovies]

Mark is obviously acting on some sort of guilt trip. I'm sure there are good things that one can learn from Satmar and KJ. But don't paint it as some Shangri-La.

[Dovid Komarov]

bestplaces.net messed up data on religious life in KY. it says jews make 4.4% of population.

[Yochanan Lavie]

I heard that some chassidim get married al pi halacha in a rabbi's office, but don't register with the state. That way the mother can get welfare. Is that true?

Anyway, I heard Neturei Karta is setting up their own upstate shtetl- Kiryas Arafat. They will launch homemade rockets from it into nearby Modern Orthodox communities. (/humor)

[Shmarya]

I heard that some chassidim get married al pi halacha in a rabbi's office, but don't register with the state. That way the mother can get welfare. Is that true?

It is very common, except it is a full, normal public Jewish wedding, and it is not registered with the state.

[moshe]

almost no crime? I'd bet it's the fraud capital of the country.

[critical_minyan]

it may have a low rate of violent crime, but you couldn't pay me to live there.
the crimes there are not petty acts of graffiti or vandalism, they are much worse. They are crimes against peoples freedom and dignity, when they try and think for themselves.
Nobody takes statistics of people blackmailed to marry someone they don't want to marry or women pressured with excommunication because they decide to get a high school diploma because it is so beyond the pale of what is considered normal in this country.
the crimes there are shocking and abnormal, I feel bad for the residents trapped there with no chance for parole.

[Ben]

Smarya, you are wrong on this one. It is impossible to cover up violent crime. At least it is impossible to cover up murders. Kiriat Joel apparently doesn't have them, while other poor communities have (even homogeneous ones, like all black for example)

[Shmarya]

Smarya, you are wrong on this one. It is impossible to cover up violent crime. At least it is impossible to cover up murders. Kiriat Joel apparently doesn't have them, while other poor communities have (even homogeneous ones, like all black for example)

All black does not in any way equal homogeneous.

All violent crimes short of murder can be covered up relatively easily.

Most murders in poor US communities are drug related, disputes between rival sellers and rival gangs or the result of robberies committed to get money to buy drugs.

Kiryas Joel has drugs, but not as much as the inner city. And, because it is homogeneous violent street crimes related to drugs will happen elsewhere.

[Shmarya]

And, of course, none of that matters.

Mark's supposed argument is that poverty does not breed crime.

But much crime is committed by Kiryas Joel residents.

Mark argues from his conclusion, and ignores all evidence that disagrees with that conclusion.

[WoolSilkCotton]

The flaw in Mark's argument is that KJ is a poverty stricken community. It is are not.
It is a community of experts at welfare/food stamp/medicaid/tax evasion fraud, and so, on paper, appear to be poverty stricken.
The added overlay is the bizarre fundamentalist dictatorship which governs everyone's daily existence, with strange mores.
Such a community cannot be compared to others where the poverty is genuine.

[Archie Bunker]

Man is SHmarya full of crap, as usual.

"In most societies, violence is saved for the Other"

Tell us about it. Explain then why Black on Black crime is more prevalent than Black on White crime.

It's also hilarious how Shmarya implies there is an epidemic of pre-marital pregnancies in KJ when they are virtually non-existant.

Shmarya then bends himself out of shape trying to come up with a preposterous explanation why KJ residents are forced not to commit crimes. He couldn't be more wrong. While someone would be forced out if his wife dresses immodestly, criminals get away with crimes because they are usually linked to one of two rival factions. The 2 factions also call the cops on each other all the time so there goes another one of Shmarya's bogus arguments. The reason why they don't show up in crime stastistics is because the crimes are so petty that they are usually classified as misdemeanors.

There is plenty of fraud however because of the backwater mentality they have retained from Satu Mare, ROmania.

In short, Shmarya is either woefully ignorant or lying. Either way, he should not be a pretend journalist.

[Archie Bunker]

"Most murders in poor US communities are drug related"

There are still plenty of murders where some Black lowlife steals a few bucks & then pulls the trigger on the robbery victim just for the heck of it.

And remember when those inner city Blacks ripped a baby out of a uterus and killed the mother?

We all know what happens when Liberals hear the uncomfortable truth. They attacked Newt Gingrich as a "racist" when he commented about that case.

[critical_minyan]

there is a lot of mortgage and other fraud in KJ, but there are other immigrant communities where this exists as well.
the difference is that in other communities the fraud is stage while they integrate and assimilate into the greater american community, while in KJ, it is considered normal, healthy and ideal.
They feel they are serving G-D by using somebody else social security number or lying about their number of dependents.

[A. Nuran]

Archie, Shmarya is right.

I used to study criminology, even got a couple papers published in refereed journals and presented at national conferences.

The facts haven't changed much. Better than 3/4 of homicides fall into one of two categories. The first is by existing criminals against other existing criminals over things related to ongoing criminal activity. The other is domestic homicide where the police have been contacted at least once within the previous year. The first is generally economic crime in the larger sense - over resources, territory or status in support of a criminal business. The second is a systemic failure of the justice system.

You know how to hate. You know slander. You need to learn something outside Haredi dogma.

[A. Nuran]

Any healthy organism can tolerate a certain parasite load. In recent decades the Satmar and the rest of that crowd could parasitize the Jewish people and the United States. But with their numbers swelling, the charities broke and their Jewish benefactors having trouble getting by that particular species has outstripped the resources it can steal from the hosts.

Look to see more investigation and less tolerance. The Haredi will shriek and wave their books and curse everyone, Jew and Gentile, upon whose largesse they depend. But they will ultimately learn to fend for themselves in the real, limit their insupportable breeding or go extinct. Unfortunately, they have systematically cut themselves off from the skills and connections which are necessary for survival. As a population they are highly specialized parasites. One hopes they can learn to be functional independent organisms.

[Archie Bunker]

Nuran, you hypocrite.

You lecture about hate & slander before moving to paint all of Satmar as parasitic insects. There are plenty of honest & successful businessmen among their ranks but you, like Shmarya, are too blinded by your hatred of all things orthodox Jewish to admit or see it.

[Archie Bunker]

critical minyan,

"the difference is that in other communities the fraud is stage while they integrate and assimilate into the greater american community, while in KJ, it is considered normal"

Are you kidding? There are plenty of immigrant communities where the fraud is on a much greater, wholesale level and where it is considered a badge of honor. There are various Arab / Muslim communities, Nigerians, Russians and others who hail from COmmunist countries and it's rumored even some homegrown American Mormons (as long as they defraud non-Mormons).

Satmar is not sitting around pulling (Nigerian) money transfer scams via email. They are not engaged in (Arab) supermarket coupon fraud. They do not run (Arab) rings of baby formula theft (ever wonder why the stuff is locked up in so many stores?). Etc, etc.

[A. Nuran]

Archie, you love insults, the more personal the better. But you need to learn what the big words mean. If I were a hypocrite I'd saying that while defrauding the welfare system or living off the charity of other Jews when I could do useful work. That is demonstrably not the case.

The Satmar community in Kiryas Joel is absolutely a parasitic growth on America and on American Jewry. It adds little or nothing to the GDP. It subsists largely on government handouts and the charity of productive members of society. As a community it refuses to educate its young people in the skills necessary to produce the wealth it needs to survive.

It doesn't produce, but it does take. It ignores the laws which govern the rest of America but takes full advantage of their protection. It does things which are demonstrably harmful to the society to which it has attached itself like massive fraudulent acquisition of government social welfare money, immigration fraud, refusal to educate its children in the rights and duties of citizens and so on. It harms the host while taking sustenance from it. Again, textbook parasitism in the social rather than the biological sphere.

Unfortunately for itself, for Jewry and for America the host society does not have the resources to support it, particularly with its unconscionable birth rate.

Now, I may be wrong. It may be that this official poverty hides a healthy economy which is hidden from the government. If that is the case, then Kiryas Joel is one of the biggest and best-organized crime syndicates around, committing fraud, tax evasion and theft of government services on an epic scale.

You've left yourself with two ugly choices here: economic and social parasitism or an ongoing organized criminal enterprise on an epic scale.

Personally, I'd prefer that KJ grow up and join the real world. If nothing else it would be good for the Jews

[Archie Bunker]

Nuran calls the kettle black.

You started off with a broad stroke against all Satmar, now you are forced to retreat somewhat by limiting your diatribe to KJ. I agree the KJ political administration is corrupt but you cannot smear all the residents in town.

And can you back up your accusation of large scale immigration fraud?

[A. Nuran]

Do try to stay on topic. So far you've gone everywhere but there. And when you get around to speculating about my sexual habits don't waste the electrons. I have had non-White lovers (your favorite topic). And my beautiful Afro-Chinese wife is more woman than you could possibly deserve or survive.

[Archie Bunker]

That's funny Nuran, when it's a Herculean task to keep YOU on topic. You are the one straying off topic to discuss interracial sex instead of explaining the holes in your "case" against Satmar.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Kinder: Stop with the ad hominems and stick to the debating points.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Question: How do you make Roumanian pastrami?
Answer: First, steal a pastrami.

Could 'Satmar' be an acronym for Steal American Taxpayers' Money and Resources?

I'm riffing here, people.

[nobody]

"Either way, he should not be an editor at the Jewish Week."

The obvious deeyuk, Shmarya thinks he should be....

The revealed jealousy is not at all subtle to the reader.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Nuran, baby, you rule.
To avoid falling into certain traps here, study the techniques of our esteemed colleague Equal Time on other threads. He (or she) has it down to a science!

[Yochanan Lavie]

WSC: I LOVE your roshei teivot.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Thanks, YL!

[chabib]

Isn't Curcious George East of Eden ?

[Jon]

Crime is low in the Caribbean and in rural Africa. This is the same for rural America and just about any rural community where the people are predominantly poor.

Poverty indeed only causes crime where materialism is rampant and there is a breakdown in the family structure.

There is no word on what causes white collar crimes like Rubashkin and Madoff. Suggestions include a lust for wealth in an amoral community.

[Archie Bunker]

"Crime is low in ... in rural Africa."

ARe you kidding?

AFter the colonialists gave the locals their independence, they proceeded to slaughter each other in power struggles. It made the Texas CHainsaw Massacre look tame by comparison.

[R]

Archie, baby milk powder is not locked up. The Nigerian e-mail scams are not necessarily sent by black nigerians. Ever heard of Hustling? Well it makes no difference what colour skin you have when you do that sort of thing and scam people out of their money.

Archie you are just racist.

[Archie Bunker]

Cut it out "R"

Baby formula is locked up at many pharmacies, supermarkets & dept stores.

And yeah, I'm sure a bunch of milky white Swedes are behind those Nigerian email scams.

Get a life as you are just a fool.