Rubashkin Legal Costs May Reach $5 Million – Rabbis Lobbying For Rubashkin "Never Considered" Helping Agriprocessors Workers

Details:

Orthodox Rabbis Rally Around Rubashkin as He Sits in Jail

By Nathaniel Popper

The Forward

During past presidential transitions, when pardons were in the air, many Orthodox Jewish activists set their sights on securing a pardon for Jonathan Pollard, imprisoned since 1987 on charges of spying for Israel. This year, though, members of the Orthodox community had another jailed cause célèbre to focus on: Sholom Rubashkin.

Rubashkin, former CEO of the kosher meat company Agriprocessors, has been confined to a five-person Iowa jail cell since November, awaiting trial on charges of bank fraud and helping workers at his plant to falsify their immigration status.

Tales of the working conditions at the slaughterhouse that Rubashkin ran in Postville, Iowa, have earned him widespread criticism, including that of members of the Orthodox community. In recent months, however, people from a wide range of Orthodox groups have gone to great lengths to rally behind Rubashkin, who has been denied bail pending trial as an alleged flight risk. According to his lawyer, more than 30 people have offered to put up their homes as collateral if Rubashkin is released on bail. Multiple groups have been formed to raise money for Rubashkin’s legal costs. And a delegation of rabbis representing a cross-section of the Orthodox community traveled to Iowa to visit Rubashkin in jail and make a plea for his release.

“This is very unusual,” said Guy Cook, Rubashkin’s Des Moines-based lawyer. Cook, who has been in private practice for nearly 30 years, said he had never seen another client receive the sort of support that Rubashkin has been given.

“This is a community that really feels an obligation to defend one of their own,” Cook added.

Support for Rubashkin does not come only from the Chabad-Lubavitch Hasidic community that Rubashkin grew up in. Among Rubashkin’s visitors have been leading rabbis representing the centrist Rabbinical Council of America, the country’s largest Orthodox rabbinical association, as well as the Orthodox Union, the main umbrella body for Modern Orthodox synagogues and the largest certifier of kosher food. Rabbi Moshe Elefant, who visited the jail as a representative of the O.U., said he was there not to say whether Rubashkin was guilty or innocent, but merely to support a fellow Jew.

“We were there to give him support as a Jew who is incarcerated,” Elefant told the Forward. “People I speak with don’t understand why the government is taking such a tough stand on him.”

Those who have visited him say that Rubashkin is confined to a cell with four other men in the Dubuque Law Enforcement Center. Rubashkin told the rabbis that he spends most of his days praying and studying Jewish texts. While the rabbis say that his wife has been able to bring him kosher food, he has been unable to visit with some of his 10 children, including an autistic son who has become a part of the legal wrangling in his case.

Rubashkin has a lengthy legal fight ahead of him. On January 15, federal prosecutors handed down a new 99-count indictment against Rubashkin and a few supervisors who worked under him at the Postville slaughterhouse. That slaughterhouse was the subject of a massive immigration raid in May 2008 in which nearly 400 workers were arrested. Rubashkin’s trial is set to begin this coming September. One rabbi who has been raising money for the case said that he had heard that Rubashkin’s legal fees will likely total between $2 million and $5 million.

For now, the immediate rallying cry has been the court’s decision to keep Rubashkin in jail rather than release him on bail. The prosecutors initially argued that if the judge allowed Rubashkin to be released, he might flee to Israel, where he would be granted immediate citizenship due to Israel’s Law of Return. Another defendant in the case, Hasam Amara, has already fled to Israel, according to the new indictment.

But the reference to the Law of Return has inflamed many of the activists on Rubashkin’s behalf.

“He’s sitting in there only because he’s Jewish,” said Rabbi Shimon Hecht, a Chabad-Lubavitch rabbi from Brooklyn who was in the delegation visiting Rubashkin in jail.

Several non-Orthodox Jewish organizations have written briefs supporting Rubashkin on this point, arguing that if courts used the Law of Return in this way it could lead them to deny any Jewish person bail.

But the magistrate judge overseeing the case has rejected Rubashkin’s appeals and said that his lawyers have put too much emphasis on the reference to the Law of Return. The magistrate judge, Jon Scoles, wrote that the primary reason Rubashkin was kept in jail was the thousands of dollars in cash and precious coins that government officials say they found at his home when he was arrested in November.

Rubashkin’s lawyers are disputing exactly what those officials found, but the rabbis supporting Rubashkin are hoping that by speaking up for him, they can convince the judge that Rubashkin would never flee. “The bottom line is if you look across the country, there are people who have done a heck of a lot worse things and have gone out on bail,” said Rabbi Pesach Lerner, executive vice-president of the National Council of Young Israel, who organized the delegation of rabbis that visited Rubashkin. “Sholom Rubashkin has no funds. His family is here. He’s not going to run.”

While his Orthodox supporters say that Rubashkin has been treated unfairly, several people involved in the Agriprocessors case say that he has received far better treatment than many others caught up in the company’s problems. After the government’s raid of Agriprocessors in May, most of the 400 non-Jewish workers who were arrested were given six-month jail terms after hasty trials in which each public defender was representing nearly 20 workers.

Jewish Community Action, a social action group in nearby Minnesota, helped raise funds to assist the immigrant workers and their families. The executive director of that organization, Vic Rosenthal, said that during the drive to give the immigrant workers support, he never heard any interest from the same Orthodox leaders who are throwing their weight behind Rubashkin today.

“Had the Orthodox community, which had such an interest in Agriprocessors, been willing to say, ‘We’ll make lawyers or resources available for these workers,’ that would have sent a real message,” Rosenthal said.

As it is, Rosenthal said, the different handling of Rubashkin and the immigrant workers has been a “perversion of American justice.”

“You have one person who has resources and access to good attorneys, and who will get his day in court. And you have another group of people that gets railroaded through the legal system,” Rosenthal said.

Most of the Orthodox rabbis who are supporting Rubashkin and spoke to the Forward said that they had never considered providing support to the immigrant workers last year. But Rabbi Shea Hecht, a Chabad rabbi who helped establish a committee that seeks to spread awareness of Rubashkin’s case — and that has already given money for his legal defense — said he wished he had done more in the raid’s immediate aftermath.

“If I would have done more in May — to help the company and the 400 Guatemalans — maybe we wouldn’t be here now needing to form this committee,” Hecht said.

Comments

[sage]

+++ “If I would have done more in May — to help the company and the 400 Guatemalans — maybe we wouldn’t be here now needing to form this committee,” Hecht said. +++

Well, Rabbi Hecht, how about helping many needy non-Jews in Postville NOW!!!!!!

[WoolSilkCotton]

Ironically, the Dubuque Law Enforcement Center is located at another '770' address:

770 Iowa St., Dubuque, IA

[yidandahalf]

Yes, "Rabbi" Hecht, if you could find it in you to help the non-Jewish victims of Agriprocessors, your argument of "He's sitting in there only because he's Jewish." would maybe carry some weight.
In the meantime keep that hot dog line going, make sure Sholom "Rico" Rubash-in has plenty of Aaron's Worst to fortify himself with from all that shuckling.

[sage]

Great posts, WSC and Y&1/2!!!!!

From one "770" to another. Aftsaluchus!!!!

[David]

Ha! Is the OU sending delegations to visit Bernie Maddoff as a "fellow Jew?"

[Archie Bunker]

Great speech by Former President Bush on his arrival in Midland, Texas.

http://www.foxnews.com/video-search/m/21775817/good_to_be_home.htm#q=bush+midland+texas

In the 7 years since 9/11 we haven't been attacked, because we took the war to them.

[sage]

Hi Archie,

With all due respect to you and the former President, what do his remarks in Midland have to do with the topic on this thread?

[Archie Bunker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G4DjmRhMXM

[sage]

The video was no answer to my question.

Sorry.

[Archie Bunker]

People post off topic on blogs all the time.

[sage]

Yes, but it destroys the continuity of the discussion at hand, not a good thing in keeping contributors properly focused.

[Shalom]

What don't you understand? there is a MITZVA of Pidyon Shvuyim for which you can even sell a Sefer Tora and a shull in order to preform...

This is not people looking to "help" all the downtrodden people on Postville, the USA and the world, rather doing their part in Pidyon Shvuyim. and therefore are only focused of Sholom Rubashkin

[nachos]

Woolsilkcotton:

I have known about the address thing for months, but did not write anything because I didn't want to get people started.

The address is not ironic, but spiritual. To me, the address is a statement that G-d is in control of the situation.

I really pray that G-d has opened up Shalom's heart to repentance in this situation.

How about tonight, we all do a mitzvah. Let's all sit down and pray for Leah Rubashkin. Let's pray that G-d stands beside her as she raises her children and gives her the strength to get through things.

I mean the above with all sincerity.

[sage]

With all due respect, Shalom, Pidyon Shvuyim does not apply when dealing with Jews who are held under Criminal Indictment.

[Beam me up Scotty]

What will Shmatta's legal bill be if he gets sued by the Jewish Week for slander?

Extra costs might include extra blogger attire (underwear) when he goes peepee after being served.

[shutup!]

wat the fuck!
just shutup
all of u!
u dont know wat the hell u r talkin bout
OF COURSE PIDYON SHVUYIM APPLIES HERE!
just shutup if u dont have anything TRUE to say!!!

[WoolSilkCotton]

Nachos, good points.
I also hope Mrs. R will encourage SMR onto the path of tsuvah.
It's long overdue.

[Jon]

They're goyim. Good for turning on lights on the Sabbath; otherwise subhuman.

[Jon]

+++ “If I would have done more in May — to help the company and the 400 Guatemalans — maybe we wouldn’t be here now needing to form this committee,” Hecht said. +++

Well, Rabbi Hecht, how about helping many needy non-Jews in Postville NOW!!!!!!

Posted by: sage | January 22, 2009 at 06:05 AM
-------------------------------
And notice how he only regrets not helping because he might have needed the help later on.
He doesn't regret helping because it was the right thing to do and he failed to do it. No. He regrets helping because if he had helped it would have helped HIM out later.

[Jon]

Ha! Is the OU sending delegations to visit Bernie Maddoff as a "fellow Jew?"

Posted by: David | January 22, 2009 at 08:17 AM
-----------------------------

If his victims were goyim they would.

[Shalom]

SAGE,

I don't know how much a sage you are (as we don't know each other) but even a cursory glance at the Shulchan Aruch, Rambam etc. you will find that it CLEARLY DOES apply.

When did you start playing Hashem and decide who needs help and who doesn't?

The Baal Shem Tov teaches us that we should search and find faults in ourselves. but in OTHERS we should always search the positive (and NOT the negative... positive people alway/usually see positive in others - their reflection. while negative people always see.....)

[sage is not]

Nothing personal sage but please try to let others disagree with you once in a while. Some of your earlier comments were uncalled for

[sage]

If there are those who feel that SMR is being kept in jail illegally, then a valid way to help him is to petition Judge Linda Reade of the Federal District Court in Iowa.

Tomorrow, she is holding a hearing on the matter. That is where folks can go.

Holding a demonstration outside the jail is not appropriate.

SMR is not a captive. He is a US citizen who has been indicted by the State of Iowa and the United States Government and is being held in jail until trial.

My understanding of Pidyon Shvuyim is, that it applies to captives, not to those under criminal indictment by the secular authorities.

[FirstGenerationBavarianAmerican]

Sage,
Was the hearing rescheduled? From this post:
http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2009/01/rubashkin-bail-appeal-set.html
the hearing is set for TODAY, January 22nd, at 4 PM CST.

[Shalom]

SAGE,

That is YOUR understanding. the Rambam talks about a Jew who SOUSED himself DELIBERATELY to be a captive (thus he is NOT innocent) and nevertheless the Rambam rules unequivocally that we MUST redeem him - even if he does this REPEATALY. so honorable Sage, please don't pretend to be an expert in this.

for 1 Jew to be jubilant and overly exited at the incarceration of another Jew [obviously unless the person in question is a IMMINENT, real physical danger to others - it shows that there is something seriously wrong with him... Dovid Hamelech questiond the Jewishness of a large group of people ONLY because of their lack of Rachmonus on people that did HARM TO THEM... please contemplate this and take a serious look in the mirror (this applies to me as well).

[as a side note - not related to the above - the entire concept of PRISON is in direct opposition to everything the Tora stands for. if a person is guilty for something he needs to punished. but EVERY person has a job-destiny that he needs to archive in this world (with the alloted time that he has). holding a person in prison is a total WAST of life. (unless a person in an imminent danger (physical) to others.]

[nachos]

Shalom:

Doesn't the same Shulchan Aruch say that a Jew is not allowed to violate the Sabbath to save the life of a gentile?

Wasn't Rambam a resident of Egypt contrary to what the Torah says?

[Joe]

I wouldn't call it support for SR - I call it a cult.

[Jason]

“The bottom line is if you look across the country, there are people who have done a heck of a lot worse things and have gone out on bail,” said Rabbi Pesach Lerner, executive vice-president of the National Council of Young Israel, who organized the delegation of rabbis that visited Rubashkin.

The bottom line is that these rabbis don't understand the first thing about American law (or else they are being purposely deceitful on this issue). Bail has been denied because of SMR's risk of flight, not because of the severity of his crime, and it is not unusual that someone is denied bail (if he is judged to be a flight risk) while others indicted on "less severe" crimes are granted bail.

Perhaps the rabbis should educate themselves about the law and SMR's case before rallying to his defense.

[Sarg]

Of course the rabbis will rally around Rubashkin, they are in on his scam too, remember?? Everybody keeps talking this Jewish law bullshit, last I looked, this is the United States of America, not little Tel Aviv. Sorry, I'm not buying the "because he is Jew" crap. Every criminal in the country can make a country of origin claim, Gotti died in Fed pen because he was an Italian??? Get over it.

[southernJew]

I post with trepidation, seeing that many posters here are more interested in bashing than in sharing opinions. Nevertheless, in reference to the issue of pidyon shivuim (ransoming captives), see an article written by Rabbi Michael Broyde, which can be found at

http://www.jlaw.com/Articles/mesiralaw2.html#85.

Rabbi Broyde sits on the Bet Din (religious court) of the Rabbinical Council of America (known to be a one of the few non-corrupt batei din in America or Israel - sad, but true).

Start by reading note 16, then read the whole article. For those who are able, don't rely on his rendition. Look up the sources.

The upshot is, like many things in Jewish law, there are many opinions. Some authorities would say that pidyon shevuim applies, some say no, and some say maybe. (This issue also applies to Jonathan Pollard.)

For people who want to bash Jewish law, or its morality, feel free. This rabbi and attorney really doesn't care. But, for those who believe in Jewish law, don't make blanket statments until you have had the opportunity to learn what all noted opinions (piskei halacha) are in regard to an issue. And also remember, under any legal system, law (as opposed to legislation) must be applied without emotion.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Next time I get a ticket, I'm going to scream anti-Semitism, and insist on a rally outside traffic court.

[Archie Bunker]

"Next time I get a ticket, I'm going to scream anti-Semitism, and insist on a rally outside traffic court."

Marvin Schick's brother tried that already.

[yidandahalf]

Enough of all the mishugas. A couple of weeks ago people were giving one another 'cyber hugs' on this blog, since then the majority of comments have degenerated into bullying and bullshit. People go from one thing to another after being led into the fray by the blogmeister's Obama Jungle Fever. It recalls the days of the worst of usenet.
I say if things get really tough for the Golem he can participate in the jail bird hook up industry that has sprung up to provide losers in freedom with the promise of the extreme in 'forbidden fruit'. He would be quite an attraction and it will give him a rest from his holy prayer marathon.
As for the rest of us, I say let us once again learn, learn, and learn some more. Afterall the best and brightest may be found on this blog.

[Archie Bunker]

Both Sage & his critics are incorrect.

Pidyon shvuyim COULD apply in America but generally in cases of thievery from others and other major crimes it does not and especially not in the Rubashkin case.

[state of disgust]

Shalom is correct. We should have rachmonus on SMR, and prison is not the Jewish way of dealing with this. Perhaps if SMR is found guilty we should petition the court to mete out some good old Jewish justice as practiced in the time of Dovid HaMelech, and stone SMR instead.
And while you may not appreciate my sarcasm, know that the frum communities treatment of non-Jews - particularly in Postville - isn't and wasn't, much appreciated either.

[steve]

It's a simple kal v'chomer. If Mondrowitz, Kolko, Colmer, and the rest of the sexual predators qualify for pidyon shvuyim funds, why shouldn't SMR? The halacha of pidyon shvyuyim has been so perverted that even those that are guilty of the worst kinds of chillul hashem are included in these fundraising efforts. These rabbis lobbying to free SMR only adds to the chillul hashem. I do think that SMR should be granted bail. However, I do not believe that a federal case should be made out of this. Private lobbying and quiet diplomacy would be a lot more effective and would lessen the chillul hashem.

[state of disgust]

BTW, last time I checked, lawyers aren't real kean about taking IOU's in criminal cases. And, $5 Million could be a conservative figure given the high priced talent Rubashkin has used in previous situations.

[yankele der ganiv]

I am not here to defend Rubashkin. He should sit for all I care. However, if a judge in Iowa can say that a "frum" Jew (quotes done on purpose) can be denied bail because he is a flight risk to Israel, then all Jews need to worry.

I know that others in the agri case ran off to Israel. Also, I don't know exactly when they found Rubashkin's stash of cash and passport, and for all I know he was planning on running off to Israel, but still it is a dangerous precedent.

The Jewish community should make a stink about it, because if we are silent, then there is a dangerous possibility that the Rubashkin case can become precedent in every case where a Jew is convicted of a crime, especially if that Jew wears a beard and yarmulkah.

Following the Jonathan Pollard case, there were many in the Orthodox community that screamed for his pardon. However, others, especially Jewish government workers, were adamantly against it. A friend of mine's dad, who is a frum Jew, and had high security clearance (he has since retired) believes that the specter that Jews are more loyal to Israel than to the US, hurt him. I heard similar things from other Federal workers.

We need to make sure that, even if Rubashkin is never allowed to post bail, other Jews, especially frum ones, will not be denied their rights as American citizens.

[Yisroel Pensack]

The article says: "...Rubashkin, who has been denied bail pending trial as an alleged flight risk." This is poor writing, I think. The prosecution probably alleged he is a flight risk, but the judge apparently has ruled that he is in fact a flight risk.

[Rachel Batya]

"Next time I get a ticket, I'm going to scream anti-Semitism, and insist on a rally outside traffic court."

You should probably let your rabbi know about your intentions right now, just so he's prepared. He probably doesn't realize the extent of his responsibilities in a case like this.

Feel free to call on me for support as well. I'll bring the video camera and make sure that Shmarya has a copy of the tape.

[Yisroel Pensack]

On January 22, 2009 at 04:11 PM, yankele der ganiv wrote:
"...there is a dangerous possibility that the Rubashkin case can become precedent in every case where a Jew is convicted of a crime, especially if that Jew wears a beard and yarmulkah."

You mean accused, not convicted.

[southernJew]

Rubashkin has been accused of disgusting crimes. However, whether pidyon shevuim applies depends on several factors:

1. Is he a danger to the lives of others (rodef)? (This clearly means that sexual predators, who can kill by their actions, should be jailed.) This is probably true of Rubashkin, but one could make an argument to the contrary.

2. Is the United States of America a "malchus tzedek" (a country with a just legal system)? I believe it is, but there are many rabbis and lay people who would argue this. Again, the question may disgust many, but is a critical one from a Jewish legal perspective.

3. Is Rubashkin's life in danger in jail? This is a tough question to answer for anyone who is in prison. A lot of people would like to see him dead, but both Jewish law and American jurisprudence don't condone vigilante justice. From a Jewish law perspective, prisons must be safe, even if they house disgusting people.

4. Did Rubashkin defame the name of G-d? Do rabbis and other Jews who try to have him released defame the name of G-d? Is it a sanctification of the name of G-d to have such a person in prison? After reading many of the clearly anti-Semetic and (sometimes justifiably) anti-orthodox posts on this site, my gut tells me it's wrong to advocate for his release under this criteria.

I don't think that the rabbis who have been to Postville have shown that they are competent to answer these questions.

[Isaac Balbin]

I think it's high time Jews diverted some of their money and energy from Israel to the children of Gaza. Surely their plight is as real as the Postville workers, and from what I can tell, Livni, Barak, Ashkenazy are being charged with crimes far greater than Rubashkin?

[Equal Tim e]

--and from what I can tell, Livni, Barak, Ashkenazy are being charged with crimes far greater than Rubashkin?--

By the Palestinians - perhaps.

But it appears the even most Western as well as a few Arab leaders see their actions as a legitimate response to attack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTu-AUE9ycs

[Successful Messiah]

"Rabbis Lobbying For Rubashkin "Never Considered" Helping Agriprocessors Workers"

Shmarya is seeing red because despite his best efforts he is barely able to schnorr five bucks while it looks like Rubashkin may actually be able to pull off five million - and all that without having to spend 24/7 blogging in his underwear. Can't say I blame him. I'd be jealous too.

[Max]

"However, if a judge in Iowa can say that a "frum" Jew (quotes done on purpose) can be denied bail because he is a flight risk to Israel, then all Jews need to worry."

The judge was much more concerned with a) SMR violation of the terms of his bail release on previous charges, and; b) the appearance of preparations for imminent departure.
Clearly the prosecutor made a huge mistake raising the issue of the Law of Return. Given that three other 'people of interest' in this scandal have disappeared at least two of whom are said to be in Israel, the judge had little choice but to deny bail.

[Paul Freedman]

Isaac B: if Hamas were to affirm the right of a Jewish polity not to be eliminated--that is revoke their hatred of Israel (and they wouldn't have to shell out any money to do this) your irony would have more force--but they don't/won't --their present strategy is to insert a wedge between Israel and its Western allies, establish themselves as a legitimate quasi-state presence in Gaza, *and* retain their Holocaust Covenant.

Israel's strategic decision to forego even partial permanent reoccupation of strategic lanes and to adopt a "mow the grass" tactic of periodic revolving door lunges into Gaza accedes to the sovereign vacuum within which Hamas retrenches itself. Perhaps the Fatah authorities can be brought in but Hamas has taken root like kudzu there and casts it eyes eastward.

But if you wish to contribute to the children of Gaza why not.

The problem is that this gesture is less humanitarian (why them? why not children of Somalia or abandoned old people factory housed in state retirement centers?) than a political gesture.

[Equal Tim e]

--than a political gesture.--

Worse still (and more likely) his money could end up in the hands of the Hamas "political" leaders.

[Curious Postville Native]

[Next time I get a ticket, I'm going to scream anti-Semitism, and insist on a rally outside traffic court.]

YL:

What a great idea! I realize that I am not Jewish, but I think I shall give it a try as well.

[Yochanan Lavie]

"Perhaps if SMR is found guilty we should petition the court to mete out some good old Jewish justice as practiced in the time of Dovid HaMelech, and stone SMR instead."

But I would not feel so all alone. Everybody must get stoned.

CPN: You can say the judge is an Ulster Protestant who hates Catholics. Try that. My fees are reasonable.

(Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, I just play one on TV).

[hancock park]

One manifestation of anti-semitism in old
Europe was to kidnap Jews and hold them for ransom. The victims were not charged with any crimes.

The Jewish community would get together and pay the ransom to free the captured Jew.

This was pidyon shvuyim. A side note:this is going on in Mexico today. Rich people, not Jews are kidnapped for ransom all the time.

[justice seeker]

SMR is an "alleged" head of a well documented crime syndicate, whose activites have been thoroughly discussed by this BLDG. He stands accused of thousands of violations ranging from illegal payroll deductions, to child labor, and fraud. Crimes that consistently took advantage of the less fortunate.

Much discussion occurs with regards to whether denying bail to SMR is a danger to the "rights of Jews". The point has been missed and perspective lost. The defining issue is the indifference of the Orthodox community to the real victims of the Postville tragedy. Frankly it is a very uncomplimentary portrait.

Rabbi Hecht said “If I would have done more in May — to help the company and the 400 Guatemalans — maybe we wouldn’t be here now needing to form this committee"

He still doesn't get it. For years the Orthodox communty looked the other way pertaining to Rubashkin business practices.
By May it was years to late to help.It would have been a timely moment to show compassion for the many victims. The failure to even consider it was a defining moment in this continuing tragedy.

Think about not only the loss of trust, but the resulting suspicion that will endure for years to come. What will the long term consequences be?

It would be a cold day in hell before I selected SMR as my "poster child". I'll say it plainly the bail issue is not the danger.

[s]

the good rabbis in Postville were able to manipulate the Decorah judge early 1990's to release Lew to a non-existant program.

[Isaac Balbin]

Equal Time:
--and from what I can tell, Livni, Barak, Ashkenazy are being charged with crimes far greater than Rubashkin?--

By the Palestinians - perhaps.

By Israelis (on the left) too. Indeed, Israel is sufficiently worried about it that it is preparing legal defence.

Paul:
The problem is that this gesture is less humanitarian (why them? why not children of Somalia or abandoned old people factory housed in state retirement centers?) than a political gesture.

I am not sure how one grades humanitarian importance. This blog purports to know though, by lecturing Rabbis on where their money/efforts should or should not go. These decisions are made by individuals and I'm not sure we should be in the business of advising someone where to channel their Chesed. By all means, if someone feels that a different Chesed should be chosen, go ahead and give!

[Yochanan Lavie]

If World War II were fought the way the ACLU and Spam-nasty Int'l wants wars fought today, we'd all be lampshades and our friend CPN would be speaking German. The citizens of Dresden were not warned about that (admittedly questionable) raid, but the Gazans were, despite the loss of the element of surprise. Civilians get hurt in war, and that's horrible. But Hamas targets only civilians and uses human shield from among their own population. Israel is protecting its civilians, and is doing its level best to avoid killing their's.

If the Canadians were bombing Detroit from Windsor, Ontario for whatever reason, how would the US respond? (Provided they even noticed the difference, in Detroit). Or if the Mexicans were shelling San Diego from Tijuana, to avenge the Mexican-American war? But the press refers to "amateur rockets" as if they were harmless hobbyists (recall Michael Moore's happy kite-flying Iraqis). Or, they compare the body count, as if this was a soccer match.

War is hell. After the Shoah, if someone says they want to eliminate the Jews, and they act on it in any way, believe them. And stop them. I don't want to see a weepy Steven Spielberg movie years from now (if Madoff left him with enough money) about the flotilla of Jewish refugees fleeing the slaughter of a defeated Israel.

Yes, don't torture, and don't intentionally target civilians (except if they're human shields and you have to get at the enemy hiding behind them). But remember: "Die oylam iz ah Golem." The world loves dead Jewish victims but hates living Jewish victors.

That is why I am leery of international organizations, no matter how putatively well intentioned. They tend to be anti-Semitic, and anti-USA (because the US is the hegemon today). The IRC was unmoved by a burnt out bus brought to their faces, that a Phallustinean freedom fighter ignited with his homocide bomb, for example.

My grandparents didn't leave Europe to become "citizens of the world" and I don't trust unelected bureaucrats who have a hard-on for Israel and the USA.

Let them try to fucking arrest us.

Having said that, individual Jews have no right to flout the laws of their countries and use pidyon shevuyim or anti-Semitism as a fig leaf. And especially not in this happy republic, which has been so good to the Jews, to the extent that the world hates it as the "Jew-nighted States."

[Equal Tim e]

--Let them try to fucking arrest us. --

Sums it up about as well as it can be summed up.

[libby in the hood]

Yochanan Lavie: Right on the money!!

[Yochanan Lavie]

Thanks, guys. God bless America and Am Yisrael Chai.