No Pity For Mr. Rubashkin

Here's how the Agriprocessors scandal looks to…

…an average Iowan:

No pity for Mr. Rubashkin
PATRICIA TERRY

Poor Sholom Rubashkin. He is stuck in jail because he is charged with bank fraud, harboring undocumented aliens for profit, aiding and abetting document fraud, and aiding and abetting aggravated identity theft.

So-called high-profile supporters and Mr. Rubashkin's lawyer want us to believe that he is being singled out because he is Jewish. Detaining criminal suspects because they have links to foreign countries -- especially countries that make it difficult or will not extradite these people to answer for their crimes, thus making them a flight risk -- is nothing new.

I do not find the government's handling of this case offensive. What I find offensive is the support Mr. Rubashkin is receiving. Mr. Cook states that fleeing would dishonor Mr. Rubashkin's faith.

My question is, did Mr. Rubashkin not dishonor his faith by taking advantage and profiting from the desperation of those employed illegally? Also, would these same high-profile supporters of Mr. Rubashkin be accusing the government of discrimination if Mr. Rubashkin was not Jewish, but black, Hispanic or Muslim?

Comments

[sage]

Kudos to Patricia Terry for her comments.

I might add that it is an equal dishonor to Judaism, that our Orthodox Leadership utterly failed to take care of the "Rubashkin Scandal", when it was first brought to public attention back in 2004.

To date, this leadership, or lack thereof, is still an utter failure.

[Paul Freedman]

"Detaining criminal suspects because they have links to foreign countries -- especially countries that make it difficult or will not extradite these people to answer for their crimes, thus making them a flight risk -- is nothing new."

What is new sage, is defining a born Jew as someone who has an automatic de facto link with a foreign country. Patricia Terry appears to assume that all Jews, as Jews, have this link. Patricia misses the point. Rubashkin does not have a second passport, has not indicated a desire to return to Israel, this link exists only given that he is independently asserted to be a flight risk. But the prosecution asserts, and convinces Ms. Terry, that this "link" exists by right of his birth--that indeed *the right of return itself* automatically makes any Jewish defendant a flight risk.

Yeah, I find this anti-Semitic.

[Paul Freedman]

So G-d forbid Shmarya, you end up in a legal jam, by this reasoning, no bail for you either. Your "link" to Israel (through birth or conversion) that, bad body it is, doesn't extradite nicely, means that you are also a flight risk--nobody needs to find money stashed in a travel bag. Ms. Terry agrees you need to stay in the slammer.

[rabbi yaacov]

Exactly Paul. Well said.

[sage]

Hi Paul,

I partially agree with you. There were other considerations, besides the Law of Return, that led Judge Scoles to deny bail. Patricia should have added these to her article, to make it complete.

But this part of her article is what really caught my attention and was the basis for my comment:

+++ My question is, did Mr. Rubashkin not dishonor his faith by taking advantage and profiting from the desperation of those employed illegally? Also, would these same high-profile supporters of Mr. Rubashkin be accusing the government of discrimination if Mr. Rubashkin was not Jewish, but black, Hispanic or Muslim? +++

[Shmarya Rosenberg]

So G-d forbid Shmarya, you end up in a legal jam, by this reasoning, no bail for you either. Your "link" to Israel (through birth or conversion) that, bad body it is, doesn't extradite nicely, means that you are also a flight risk--nobody needs to find money stashed in a travel bag. Ms. Terry agrees you need to stay in the slammer.

Why not actually read what the prosecutor and judge wrote?

Being able to get automatic Israeli citizenship is one factor in making a decision about flight risk.

For some people, that one factor would be enough to deny bail. For the vast majority of people, it would take much more than that to deny bail.

Like it or not, the operative factor here is flight risk.

As I've noted before, Israel has sheltered criminals fleeing from US justice for years.

If Israel had a more straightforward and timely extradition process – and if Israeli police actually found these wanted criminals – the Law of Return would at the very worst be a minute factor in determining flight risk.

Shea Hecht, the Chabad rabbi heading Chabad's Rubashkin Defense Committee, fought against extraditing Avrohom Mondrowitz. He also very publicly said Jews could not and should not turn Jewish criminals over to police.

Direct your fear and anger where it rightly belongs – at rabbis like Shea Hecht, at Chabad, at Agudath Israel, etc., and at Israeli justice.

[State of Postville 2]

Well said, Patricia.

Sage -

I've questioned the very thing you point out in your post; Agriprocessors received notices from the Social Security Adminstration beginning in 2004 (and every year after that up to the raid) informing the company that large percentages of their employees' social security numbers did not match the names supplied.

Ignoring those letters, Agriprocessors continued to operate openly with increasing numbers of undocumented workers for four full years. In addition to the flagrant disregard of the law by Agriprocessors, the lack of action by the Federal Agencies aware of the same problems continues to baffle me.

If the SSA was fully of the non-compliance at at Agriprocessors, why was nothing done? Why did that agency continue to send the letters of non-compliance and not take any action for four years?

This instance of inaction on the part of our own government and their monitoring agencies is only one of many. Countless infractions, violations and inconsistencies were noted and filed by government agencies, but no action was ever taken; that is, until the raid itself. By then, the violations and infractions in place at Agriprocessors had become a part of their daily operation.

By allowing Agriprocessors to operate so freely outside of the law, our own federal, state and local agencies allowed things to get so out of hand, the raid was exponentially more destructive than it would have been had some proactive steps been taken earlier.

I'd appreciate anyone's ideas as to why these things were allowed to continue as long as they were.

[Archie Bunker]

Let's have a hearty round of applause for Jason & the Obama Liberals who "know best" how to protect the public from themselves.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/23/world/middleeast/23yemen.html?hp

January 23, 2009

Freed by U.S., Saudi Becomes a Qaeda Chief

By ROBERT F. WORTH
BEIRUT, Lebanon — The emergence of a former Guantánamo Bay detainee as the deputy leader of Al Qaeda’s Yemeni branch has underscored the potential complications in carrying out the executive order President Obama signed Thursday that the detention center be shut down within a year.

[sage]

Hi SOP2,

Yes, our governmental agencies did fail to deal with Agri early on. My opinion is that this is due to the "cattle lobby" having Bush and Cheney in their back pocket.

But the Orthodox Leadership also utterly failed, by not pulling their certifications from Agri, after PETA exposed it's inhumane non-Kosher slaughter activities back in 2004. That would, in my opinion, have put Agri out of business, with or without Iowa or Federal action.

[State of Postville III]

There is no pity for SMR by the residents of this town who are not Jewish. It is felt he would flee. The town is in dire straits thanks to him and many are suffering, not only immigrants but our business people and others. He manipulated and manipulated the administrations to get his way in relation to the plant. The landlords are ridiculous expecting more than the HUD guidelines and whinning. What about Cedar Rapids? Those landlords have to fix up buildings destroyed by the floods and are not getting income from those particular buildings. What about the people who stayed here and now property is worth nothing, not only from the recession but because of the town's blighted reputation. We are left to pay high water bills because of the mess some of the landlords dumped on the city. No, no pity whatsoever for this man who had it made with a company that clearly could have made much money were it not for greed and criminal behavior.

[Paul Freedman]

Shmarya--I was responding to what Ms. Terry wrote and the de facto dual-citizenship claimed by the prosecutor, not what the judge ruled which was not what the prosecutors asserted to that point--go back, I'm serious, and take a look at their claim that, unless my eyes deceive me, *all Jews* are "defacto citizens of Israel"--pishposh on that--this is a very serious predicate if taken seriously (the judge didn't) and would have imo disproportionate weight skewing flight risk analysis for Jewish defendants--again, this is not where the judge ended up

So my comment is that Ms. Terry buys into the most egregious interpretation of the prosecutors' Jews are de facto citizens theory not that the judge was incorrect himself in weighing all the facts and presentations before him and keeping Mr. Rubashkin under wraps and away from flammable accelerants.

Re: the gymnastics of ultra-orthodox interpretations of their status (American citizenship as convenient, on alternate Tuesdays they are I guess still in the old country according to their halachic system surrounded by peasants with pitchforks and lanterns) -- two wrongs don't make a right.

Sage: I don't know that these same prosecutors would advance their defacto citizenship theory for non-dual citizens who were Hispanic or African American etc. and not Jewish so I can't follow her point. But personally I don't hail from the same shtetl as Rubashkin's high-profile defenders--I'm too secularized to understand what is going on in their noggins.

[itchiemayer]

Archibald - of course you are right regarding Gitmo, but we already knew this. However, those who back Obama worry about the "rule of law" more than the practical disaster that will come to pass if Obama's plan happens and Gitmo is closed. Thank heaven that Murtha has agreed to take in the Gitmo prisoners in his district, because I don't want these lower than dust of the earth, islamo fascist terrorists anywhere near me! There is also the Robert Reich garbage from yesterday which is incredibly offensive, and notice the libs are the ones who always bring up race. Then you have that civilian brigade that Obama wants to start. I question his motivation. After all, we have a military, police forces, and National Guard units. What is the point, other than to trample on State's rights by making national guard units obsolete. I believe he wants these units to be empowered to shut up anyone who does not think like he does. And in his first 3 days of office, he issued 5 executive orders. Carter and Clinton issued one in that time frame, and Ford, Reagan, and both bushes issued ZERO. In other words, Obama is looking to bypass the congress and bypass the electorate and do whatever he wants. This man is so dangerous to this country and the free world, and so many of you think he is so incredibly Presidential, poised, articulate, etc...I don't mean to offend anyone, but he has been handed power on a silver platter and it is DANGEROUS! Some of you will say that I'm making much to do about nothing, but when you put all of these things together, they are incredibly troublesome.

[rvrav]

Hevreh,

One of the culprits is the OU which part of the problem and no longer reliable as part of the solution.

They stated that if indicted, they would leave. Then they stated that unless the indicted leadership would change, they would withdraw supervision. Then when the new CEO was the Rubashkin attorney who was able to negotiate repayment of 1.3 million to Alou rather than have anyone serve time for money-laundering, they accepted this CEO as "objective" and arms-length. Now that Sholom Rubashkin is indicted for remaining de facto CEO running Agri, the OU continues to provide kosher supervision.

This is an embarrassment to the world of kashrut, a hillul Hashem to the Jewish and non-Jewish world IMHO.

The suggestion that the OU stayed in place to provide kosher food products just doesn't wash. They stayed IMHO for their fees for hashgacha, which for their sake I hope that they receive regularly and don't invest with a ponzi.

This isn't over immigration, legal or otherwise. This is a complicated issue of brazen criminal activity while the real victims - the kashrut observing community and the abused employees and defrauded Postville citizenry - remain out in the cold.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Maybe the Al-Qaeda-niks should convert to chareidism. They don't have to change clothing. That way, the rabbis will scream anti-semitism and pidyon shevuyim.

On a serious note, the Law of Return argument is bad throwback to charges of dual loyalty. Even before the Medina, Jews were accused of loyalty to the fictional Elders of Zion, or some such thing. And the L of R did not help Meyer Lansky. The problem is, Israel is afraid to take on the black hat community; imagine if it was as shy on suspected terrorists?

Israel should obviate such accusations by establishing a good extradition treaty. Jews can get a fair trial here; it's not Czarist Russia. But maybe not for long if recrudescent Judaephobia raises its ugly head here, as it has in Europe. Patricia is unintentionally adding fuel to that fire by implying that Jews are all Israelis and therefore flight risks. Mr. Rubbishcan's suspicious activities (cash and passport on hand, etc.) were enough to deny him bail.

[sage]

Welcome onboard rvrav!!!!!!!!!

Your sentiments are shared by many on this blog.

[Emphaty]

To Sage and all those who question the support SMR is getting for his case I could assure you that when you will be in his situation (and you WILL be becouse G-d is following EVERYTHING from above) NO ONE WILL GIVE A DAM ABOUT YOU...

[FirstGenerationBavarianAmerican]

After comparing the actual court documents posted on this web site with the reporting by Iowa media over the last few months, I have come the conclusion the supporters of Rubashkin are supplying the media with camera-ready copy (OK, maybe now it is files on a CD) and a lot of that fluff is what gets into print or on the air.

The moderator here posted the judge's actual ruling denying Mr. Rubashkin bail right after it was released, and no one picked up on the fact the Law of Return was cited. I think it was the spin doctors who made an issue out of it. If somebody can point out that it was someone in Iowa media who first made the connection to "All Jews are flight risks", I would be grateful.

[Archie Bunker]

Is WSC out there? He should learn how to spell Senator Norm Coleman.

Associated Press
ST. PAUL, Minn. -- A three-judge panel in Minnesota's contested Senate election denied Democrat Al Franken's motion to dismiss his opponent's recount lawsuit, clearing the path for the trial to start next week.

The judges rejected Mr. Franken's argument on Thursday that their review should be confined to determining if the recount was mathematically correct, saying the court has jurisdiction to determine whether votes were legally cast.

[yidandahalf]

State of Postville 2 asks "If the SSA was fully aware of the .....". Ultimately their goal is to accrue as many funds paid into the SSA as possible through taxable income and pay as little out as possible; for example in the case of taxes paid by illegals. I have seen similar cases with older immigrant workers who will soon be a burden on the SSA. They don't care who is paying in to them as long as someone is and if it is an illegal who will be booted out before their time to collect..BINGO

[Yochanan Lavie]

To Sage and all those who question the support SMR is getting for his case I could assure you that when you will be in his situation (and you WILL be becouse G-d is following EVERYTHING from above) NO ONE WILL GIVE A DAM ABOUT YOU...

Posted by: Emphaty | January 23, 2009 at 11:44 AM

I don't need a dam, because I don't have a river on my property.

And I don't know what "emphaty" is, but I doubt the Rubbishclan need it.

[justice seeker]

Denying SMR bail is not anti semitism, its common sense to keep jailed a high profile criminal who violates conditions of his bail and gets caught with his bags packed. Now there is plenty of bias and prejudice to discuss, lets talk about the way the Guatemalans were treated by Chabad. As illegals they have a tough time speaking for themselves, which doesn't mean they should be ignored. To witness the orthodox community screaming anti semitism, after mistreating the undocumented workers and their children is offensive and disgusting.

[TheHebrewHammer]

I think Patricia Terry has been drinkin to much of the Failed Messiah Kool-Aid.

HeBrew Hammer OUT!

[yidandahalf]

G-d is ain sof. It is not possible to speak on G-d's behalf, Emphaty. All holy rollers of whatever mould or stripe unceasingly think they can and should do this especially when ranting against any transgressor. It really is absurd and naive. Also you should make use of a dictionary or thesaurus.

[FirstGenerationBavarianAmerican]

Speaking of the OU, take a look at the OU trademark on this 5 pound tub of recalled peanut butter:
http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2009/01/16/kellogg_urges_cracker_caution/

[yidandahalf]

The OU would put a hechsher on bacon if they could get away with it. How much does their stampel affect the price an unaware consumer pays each time he or she buys something with a hechsher on it?

[Equal Tim e]

--Let's have a hearty round of applause for Jason & the Obama Liberals who "know best" how to protect the public from themselves.--

Bush released this man, you putz.

[goodtime]

--Let's have a hearty round of applause for Jason & the Obama Liberals who "know best" how to protect the public from themselves.--

Bush released this man, you putz.

Posted by: Equal Time

Bulls-eye! Right on bros.

[Archie Bunker]

Yes, geniuses. So Bush erred by releasing one Arab terrorist. Now Barack Hussein Osama will finish the task by letting all the killer monkeys out of the sandbox.

Brilliant. All the al Qaeda sleeper cells in the world couldn't accomplish as much as what happened this week with one executive order.

[Paul Freedman]

an analogy (for effect not for moral equivalence) as to why I find the prosecutor's statement that Jews are "de facto citizens of Israel" so wrongheaded and troubling.

Let's say that the Law of Return operates semi-automatically for sake of argument:

1) any American male with an Internet connection can, should he choose, be a customer of online porn

2) that does *not* mean, however, that to make a point you could say that every American male with an Internet connection is a "de facto viewer of onsite porn"

Not true--access to qualification is not the same as using that access--American Jews do not pay Israeli taxes, serve in miluiim and on and on and on

[Rachel Batya]

"G-d is ain sof. It is not possible to speak on G-d's behalf"

Thanks Yid + 1/2. This so badly needed to be said.

[Equal Tim e]

--Now Barack Hussein Osama will finish the task by letting all the killer monkeys out of the sandbox.--

He's closing Gitmo and bringing the detainees into the world of US law and due process. No one is talking about random releases.

You oppose applying the rule of Law?

[Equal Tim e]

--All holy rollers of whatever mould or stripe unceasingly think they can and should do this especially when ranting against any transgressor. --

Generally just before they start killing people in G-d's name.

Well said, sir.

[Archie Bunker]

"applying the rule of Law" is a farce. They'll be back on the battlefield as invisible non-combatants with no uniform, violating international law, with the blessing of Liberals.

You're not fooling anyone with your charade which includes citing empty promises from Arab countries that they will take care of released prisoners.

[Archie Bunker]

Yeah, that really makes sense. Liberals are getting a hernia trying to "uphold" US law while enabling violations of international law and a threat to homeland & world security.

[state of disgust]

Paul:
As pointed out by the prosecution in their arguments, flight risk based on ties with foreign countries is a common argument for denying bail. The prosecutors noted several cases involving Americans who had ties with countries in South America and, if I remember correctly, Ireland, where the accused was denied bail. With that in mind, given the facts involved in this scandal the prosecutor’s argument is not totally off the wall, even if it is offensive.
By the prosecutor’s argument 20 million Irish-Americans are a flight risk, so it’s a stupid argument. I think the prosecutor made a huge error in including the Law of Return as a reason for denying bail because it gave the Rubashkin defenders an issue to latch onto. There was more then enough evidence to prove SMR a flight risk without introducing the Law of Return. Had the prosecution asked any professional in the Jewish community about this, they would have advised against using this argument. A simple call to ADL, AJCommittee or others would have saved them a lot of questions re their motivation. And, while I don't think the Law of return was introduced because the prosocution is in any way anti-Semitic, the use of this line of reasoning doesn't pass the smell test.

[Empathy]

"G-d is ain sof. It is not possible to speak on G-d's behalf"

Sorry Yid, this is the will of the "Ein Sof"
See Pirkei Avot Chapter 2 Mishna 6:

He also saw a skull floating upon the water. Said he to it: Because you drowned others, you were drowned; and those who drowned you, will themselves be drowned.

[yidandahalf]

You know no more of the will of Ein Sof than you do of me or yourself for that matter. G-d is unknowable. All the rest is commentary.

[ML]

You violate the conditions of your bail, you lose the right to be released on bail. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

Clinging to the letter of the law when it's Jewish, but not when it's American law is silly and hypocritical.

[Carol-Ann]

I met someone who believes illegal immigration is condoned to support the Social Security Administration, and once the quota is reached, the crackdown on illegals will really begin.

Is this person wise or a cynic?

[The Monsey Tzadik]

Stop complaining about anti-Semitism! the government does it all the time to people of Italian descent. Like Israel has the law of return Italy has the jus sanguinis, which is a way to receive Italian sitizenship via having Italian ansestors (no genetationa limits!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Citizenship

[Dr, Dave]

Yeah but they have cool last names like Soprano or Corleone not Rubashkin

[Equal Tim e]

--"applying the rule of Law" is a farce. --

My apologies, Archie. I wasn't aware that you are a Reform rabbi.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Carol-Ann: Your friend is wise. Social Security is a Madoffian Ponzi scheme. The average lifespan back in the New Deal was about 60 years. So the idea was that many people wouldn't live to collect anyway, and the newer investors would pay the earlier investors (sound familiar?). Europe has an even greater problem, with its imploding native populations and more liberal welfare-states. So they imported Muslim workers, who are not assimilated due to a mixture of their own preference and European prejudice. In the US, illegal immigration is seen as a prop for social security and the Catholic Church (despite the fact that most go either secular or Evangelical when they get here), a boon for the Democratic party, a boon for the multiculturalists, and cheap labor for the "conservative" Republican pluotcrats. It is also seen as a safety valve to prevent Mexico from becoming a failed state.

It has not worked. Illegals have become a net drain by using public schools and public hospitals they don't pay for. Some of them are not interested in becoming culturally American. And disaffected youth among them are joining gangs.

Mexico is imploding anyway. And many illegals work off the books and don't pay Social Security taxes. Social security will need to be drastically restructured anyway.

Also, Mexico and other countries send their undesirables, so a disproportionate number of crimes and DWI's are committed by illegals. Most illegals are good people, who are law-abiding apart from their entry, and work hard for a better life. I can see granting amnesty to that category, especially if they have put down roots in America and have learned English and otherwise desire to become Americans. But criminals, irrendentists, and drunkards should be deported. And we must gain control of the borders as Mexico implodes. Gang bangers, narco terrorists, destitute refugess with no skills, and even possibly Muslim terrorists taking advantage may come pouring in. We need to control our own borders and our sovereignty. If we need low-cost labor, start a legal guest worker program.

Parts of the southwest may have been once Mexico, true. But that ship has sailed. No law of return for them.