Haredi Girl Gets Donated Heart – Father Says,"It's easy for us to receive organs, but we would never donate"

Why won't they donate?

Because the haredi understanding of Jewish law will not allow it.

Ynet reports:

Heart recipient's father: We'll never donate organs
Haredi man whose daughter's life was saved thanks to heart, lungs donation from Arab child killed in car crash says Halacha prohibits him, his family from donating organs
Dr. Itay Gal

The father of an eight year-old girl whose life was saved thanks to an organ donation from an eight year-old boy killed in a car accident said Wednesday that as an ultra-Orthodox Jew, he or his family would never donate organs themselves.

"It's easy for us to receive organs, but we would never donate," said the man, whose daughter received the heart and lungs of Anwar Abu Arar from the village of Qalansawe.

Anwar's family decided to donate his organs last week after he died in a car accident. His heart, lungs, liver and kidneys saved the lives of four children.

How did you feel when you found out that the donor was Arab?

"I was actually relieved to hear that it came from an Arab family. We cannot donate organs because the Halacha prohibits it from doing so, but for them it's not a problem, so there was no dilemma here. We can receive organs, but not give.

"But I must admit that many in our family asked questions – what would happen when Arab blood flows through my daughter's veins. But the blood is replenished so this isn't a problem.

"I saw the Arab family next to the operating room, and I was very pained to see them. I sent them a thank-you letter and I personally have no problem with the fact they're Arab," he added.

Will you be willing to sign an organ donor card now?

"Organ donation is very noble. It's a beautiful thing to save lives… But I said all along that the transplant wouldn't change our minds and that there is still no Halachic approval for donating organs."

Surgeon: Clearly immoral behavior

The father's words angered Prof. Yaacov Lavee, director of the Heart Transplantation Unit at the Sheba Medical Center. "This is outrageous," he said. "I've heard such statements from many of my candidates (for a transplant), who weren't ashamed to admit they wouldn't donate organs.

"Such statements led me to initiate the bill that prioritizes transplants for people who have signed an organ donor card. This [the father's behavior] is clearly immoral behavior," he added.

The new transplant law, which will go into effect in May, states that any person in need of a transplant and who has had an organ donor card for at least three years will be given priority on the organ transplant waiting list.

"I know for a fact that the refusal to sign such a card originates in extreme haredi circles. I've encountered many haredim who signed the card. Those who don't accept brain death (as an indication for death) represent a very small stream of Judaism… many rabbis view organ donation as a great mitzvah," Lavee concluded.

Dr. Lavee is, I believe, incorrect.

The "small stream" he mentions is growing rapidly, and now includes most Israeli haredim. That is because Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv, the undisputed leader of non-hasidic haredim, has labeled organ donation murder, and launched a vicious public campaign to stop Jews from donating organs – and doctors from harvesting them.

At the same time, Elyashiv allows his followers to receive donated organs – often before someone who would donate.

Elyashiv's policy has exacerbated an already difficult situation.

Israelis donate far fewer organs per capita than other First World countries. And, because countries share available organs with other countries, which means Israeli use more foreign organs than they contribute to the pool.

The disparity is so great that many foreign countries now ban Israelis from receiving organs.

The US has so far resisted that move, but it is unique among Western nations in this regard.

Rabbi Elyashiv's narrow understanding of Jewish law has contributed to the deaths of many people. And that narrow understanding is shared by hasidic rebbes and hasidic courts like Ger, Belz, Bobov and, to a large extent, Chabad.

(Chabad followers who do carry organ donation cards are often ba'alei teshuva, so-called returnees to Orthodoxy, who signed up as organ donors before their conversion or very early in the process of conversion.)

To take donated organs (which means someone else does not receive those organs) but to refuse to donate organs is obscene.

It is also bringing near the time when, as Rabbi Moshe Tendler noted, all Jews – not just Israelis – may be barred from receiving organs by Western countries.

The Halakhic Issues.

How Jewish Law Killed Yossie Raichik.

Previous Posts: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

Halachic Organ Donation Society.

[Hat Tip: Yankel.]

Comments

[Yochanan Lavie]

Tis better to receive than to give...

Note: Prof. Lavee is not related to me.

[PulpitRabbi]

It's not only Chareidim who do not accept brain death. Most Modern Orthodox rabbis don't accept it either. In fact, nn Jewish doctors are increasingly aware of the flimsy foundations of brain death.

[PulpitRabbi]

That should have read:
In fact, *non* Jewish doctors are increasingly aware of the flimsy foundations of brain death.

Sorry for typo.

[Shmarya]

It's not only Chareidim who do not accept brain death. Most Modern Orthodox rabbis don't accept it either. In fact, nn Jewish doctors are increasingly aware of the flimsy foundations of brain death.

This is absolutely false.

[Tehiya]

Why are the foundations for brain death flimsy?

[face]

I heard a rumor that the reason Shmarya likes black chicks so much is that he got a kidney transplant from a black man and all of a sudden had a desire to eat chicken and watermelon ad get it on with a shvartze.

[face]

That should have read:
*and* get it on with a shvartze.

Sorry for typo.

[getzel rubaskin ( not )]

" Rabbi Elyashiv's narrow understanding of Jewish law"

Shmarya , I don't know if you learn in any yeshiva,

But one thing for shure , you have much less understanding in torah , and jewish law.
Than any small boy in cheder !

Sitting in your mother basment,
Eating non kosher food, not keeping shabos, doing a shvartze . And running this blog , full of hate dosnt give you a more clear view of the torah,

Your twisted pervert mind twist every thing frum jews do , and you share every brain fart you have with the others,

Making them to see us as low fack@$.

But, the people that read your blog and rejoice when you have a story about frum jews, also are like you, now nothing or almost nothing about jewish law, they now nothing about chabad, they now nothing about chasidim , and the only source of info its this blog and yochanan a katan songs.

When you have an agenda against rubashkin, chabad , chasidim because they reject your twist sick mind you became a bias blog just like air america , or rush limbo.

You are not imparcial.

I may don't know how to spell good, but for shure can see your agenda and bias.

But please keep going. You r making all the others day.

You r giving them life and joy every time you fart .

Keep going DOCTOR LO TOV.

If you want to know what's wrong with you just read yesterday Yom Yom

Save the world !
Save postville!
Get the jews!

Get them all shmarya!

[getzel rubaskin ( not )]

" Rabbi Elyashiv's narrow understanding of Jewish law"

Shmarya , I don't know if you learn in any yeshiva,

But one thing for shure , you have much less understanding in torah , and jewish law.
Than any small boy in cheder !

Sitting in your mother basment,
Eating non kosher food, not keeping shabos, doing a shvartze . And running this blog , full of hate dosnt give you a more clear view of the torah,

Your twisted pervert mind twist every thing frum jews do , and you share every brain fart you have with the others,

Making them to see us as low fack@$.

But, the people that read your blog and rejoice when you have a story about frum jews, also are like you, know nothing or almost nothing about jewish law, they know nothing about chabad, they know nothing about chasidim , and the only source of info its this blog and yochanan a katan songs.

When you have an agenda against rubashkin, chabad , chasidim because they reject your twist sick mind you became a bias blog just like air america , or rush limbo.

You are not imparcial.

I may don't know how to spell good, but for shure can see your agenda and bias.

But please keep going. You r making all the others day.

You r giving them life and joy every time you fart .

Keep going DOCTOR LO TOV.

If you want to know what's wrong with you just read tuesday Yom Yom

Save the world !
Save postville!
Get the jews!

Get them all shmarya!

[Shmarya Rosenberg]

Posted by: getzel rubaskin ( not )

The real Getzel Rubashkin asked me last night to stop you from posting using his name.

So, from now on, you'll have to post using another screen name – or, better yet, your own name.

As for my grasp of halakha, I can assure you it is, at the very least, as good as yours.

[Yochanan Lavie]

face; your racism isn't funny.

Pulpit: I can understand the rabbis' reluctance to accept brain death. Many of them suffer from it.

[face]

"Sitting in your mother basment,
Eating non kosher food, not keeping shabos, doing a shvartze . And running this blog , full of hate dosnt give you a more clear view of the torah,"

Quoted for truth

[face]

why do you call halacha halakha?

[Archie Bunker]

Shmarya, do you even know what you are saying?

Taking organs from someone who already died in a major accident cannot by definition be "murder". This is a separate issue from brain stems and the like. Try taking things one step at a time so you don't get confused.

There are other reasons why orthodox Jews do not sign organ donor cards. There is nothing wrong with donating organs per se as it has been ruled permissable by the Noda Bihudah and other authorities.

[Rabbidw]

Rabbi Dr. Moshe Tendler translated and edited some of his father in laws teshuvot on medical questions. For those who don't know, Rabbi Tendler has a PHD in Biology and is a promonent researcher in the field of cancer. He is also a Rosh Yeshiva at Yeshiva University (RIETS). His father in law was Rav Moshe Feinstien ZTL'.
He discusses how Rav Moshe moved from the classic definition of death to that of brain death after transplants started to work. He tells of the hours that Rav Moshe spent with Doctors who explained what brain death was, why it was real, and why it has become accepted medically. So Rav Moshe revisted his original teshuva and accepted brain death as the new standard.
PulpitRabbi, you have got to have a pair of large brass ones to argue with that. I would say that any Rabbi who argues with brain death, is, by definition, not modern orthodox. And I challenge you to find ONE practicing physician who wants to go back to a heart beating definition of death. (I do not mean tightening the definition of brain death to prevent abuses and premature harvesting, I mean heart death)
Part of the no transplant rule, as I understand it, has nothing to do with brain death, because there are transplants possible after death using the traditional definition. It has to do with the revival of the dead. If you donate a liver, how is God going to resuscitate you when the Messiah comes? I would rather save a life in this world and let God worry about the next world. If this be heresy make the most of it.

[critical_minyan]

it is impossible to reconcile a moral position where you are able to take organ donations, but not be able to donate organs to other people.
it shows again the often non-sensical interpertation of halacha in regards to modern technology.
but the sheep who follow and will not change. they follow blindly. only 3-5% think. the rest are sheep.

[Archie Bunker]

There is a video on the HODS website where they ask Rabbi Dovid Feinstein if his brother in law Moses Tendler stands guilty as accused of distorting the rulings of R' Moshe. R' Dovid dances around the question without answering.

And why is ANYONE "editing" the writings of Rav Feinstein?

[save the world ! get the jews !]

Shmarya , do you like my new name ??

I know more about jewish law then you, and I know about your sick agenda more than any one in this blog.

Or may be they know but don't care if you have a sick agenda against us ! As long as you bash chabad, And you use the little you manage to learn in order to gore the frum community.

You are not looking for the truth you are looking only to bash and blemish our reputation.

We have some bad apples, and we do wrong thing just like any other religion or group.

Only g-d ( and you r perfect )

Their is two ways to look at another group/person.

Focusing on the good they do or focusing only in the bad they have.

You choose the second option and I will tell you why.

You fail to get any recognition from the luvabitchers and frum jewish group you work for, or force your self or push your nose in to. So you switch sides and now you are getting a lot of patting in your shoulder when you blog against the same groups you force your self up on them,

This also proves that your intentions, will working for chabad were only for self gratification.

You have a lot of anger because of your failed sting in the chabad movement.

From the begging you were never a luvabitcher chasid, demanding an answer and sending again and again a letter ( certefide mail ) to the rebbe and getting mad because the rebbe didn't answer or didn't want to send you the letter shows how little you know about what a chassidic rebbe is , and even if the secretary didn't.send you the letter because is own agenda dosnt give you the right to stabb the entire chabad movement .

The only reason behind this blog its your anger for people to recognise any of your work.

And your big self pride.

So chill out and read tusday yom yom .

Prove your self and do a in depth investigation about chabad in italy I know theirs more than you just post
Have a nice day

[R]

I would sign a donor card if i knew for sure it wasn't going to be abused. Sadly thousands of organs that were meant to go to patients on the NHS in the UK went to rich payers from over seas.
That is why i will not donate. Meanwhile the poor or middle class who have to rely on the NHS and the donor who thinks it goes to the NHS is being fooled.
The rich get it all and when you say money can't buy you health, it sure does buy you life, good doctors and better care.

[Shmarya]

Why are the foundations for brain death flimsy?

They aren't.

[Al]

Let me quote a wise man:

"when you beleive in things that you don;t understand you suffer..... superstition ain't the way.."

By the way Shmarya: why not take an opprotunity to promote awareness that an arab family decided to save a jewish life ? I think these stories deserve more attention. Not every arab wants to hurt every jew.

[Al]

by the way.. the quote was Stevie Wonder.

[A. Nuran]

PulpitRabbi, that is simply false. Bullshit. Out and out lies.

The scientific community - not the haredi who are actively opposed to everything about science from its foundations to its conclusions - is in complete accord about brain death as the standard for death. There is no meaningful disagreement.

[Shmarya]

I would sign a donor card if i knew for sure it wasn't going to be abused. Sadly thousands of organs that were meant to go to patients on the NHS in the UK went to rich payers from over seas.

Any proof of this?

[uncle joe mccarthy]

"arab blood"

are these people serious?

time for them to get out of the 19th century

[A. Nuran]

Face, your racism tells us more about you than we really wanted to know. And the parts which aren't shameful are disgusting.

[Shmarya]

Taking organs from someone who already died in a major accident cannot by definition be "murder". This is a separate issue from brain stems and the like. Try taking things one step at a time so you don't get confused.

You're the one who is confused, Bunker.

[Archie Bunker]

"opprotunity to promote awareness that an arab family decided to save a jewish life"

Is there a way that a family donating a child's organs in Israel can be compensated? Maybe they are not so altruistic.

[Archie Bunker]

Shmarya, have you completely lost it?

Explain how you can "murder" a victim of a major car accident who is dead according to every definition, including Charedi ones. There is no heartbeat. There is no brain activity. Nothing to define as life.

[Rabbidw]

To Archie: First of all, as Rav Moshe ZTL' grew older, most of his teshuvot were edited by his grandsons. Second, specifically as to the Medical Teshuvot, since Rabbi Tendler translated them, he was instructed by Rav Moshe that the translation in English should explain the conceptd so that they should be easy to understand by the English speaking public. This required elaboration and editing.
Anyway, the fact that Rav Moshe reversed his psak and allowed brain death to be the halachic measure of death is indisputable. I cited Rav Tendlers book because of the story of how Rav Moshe took the time and effort to study medicine from experts, one of whom, Dr. Sam Korman, OH' was a good friend of mine. Rav Moshe was not embarassed to admit that there were subjects that he did not know and was willing to take the trouble to learn from experts. When did those who banned Slifkin meat with biologists and geologists to learn why Slifkin said what he said?

[Shmarya]

Explain how you can "murder" a victim of a major car accident who is dead according to every definition, including Charedi ones. There is no heartbeat. There is no brain activity. Nothing to define as life.

Doctors have about 45 minutes at most to take the organs after cardiac death.

There is no way the boy's heart last beat at the scene.

He was clearly brain stem dead and was kept 'alive' by paramedics and then the hospital until the surgical transplant crew could take the organs.

[save the world, get the jews]

If a rabbi or a religious group are against donating organs all hell breaks loose !

We have a narrow view in torah, we don't fit in this world, we are old fashion, we have crazy rabbis etc etc.

But can any one explain to me, how killing babys during an abortion makes you a enlighted person?

How this makes you a better person ?

Why if I don't want to donate mi organs after driving drunk and crashing, makes me less of a person than some women killing her baby because she got drunk and didn't use protection?

[Rachel]

--But I must admit that many in our family asked questions – what would happen when Arab blood flows through my daughter's veins. But the blood is replenished so this isn't a problem.--

How disgusting. I'm glad the little girl's life was saved, but her father needs a serious clue. This Arab child's family is responsible for saving the lives of four people after losing their little boy. And the father has the gall to say something like that? It's one thing to think it. That's bad enough. But to say it publically? That's a disgrace.

[PishPosh]

"I saw the Arab family next to the operating room, and I was very pained to see them. I sent them a thank-you letter and I personally have no problem with the fact they're Arab," he added."

How nice of him to send a note. How nice he has no problems with Arabs Here was a chance to do a Kidush Hashem by walking into that room to the family and embracing them and thanking them for their sacrifice and maybe even saying Tehillim for their comfort and grief, but what does he do? he sends a letter. Im gratefull to the family for doing this for the little girl who needed those organs and Im glad the Arab family had no problems with JEWS getting those organs. The father is pig and a mamzer though.

[Baal Shem Ra]

Wow, the Taliban -- I mean the Righteous are out of the caves. The honorable thing, I guess, would have been to let the little girl die. What happens if her Arab liver doesn't evolve into chopped liver? Every time she asks for cous-cous, it will freak her parents out.

This reminds me of an old Lenny Bruce routine He told his horrified aunt he got a tattoo on his arm in the navy. She said, "Now You can't be buried in a Jewish cemetery."

He said, "Don't worry, they'll cut the arm off and bury it in a goyishe cemetery."

Guess they'll have to do the same with her organs after she dies, right boychiks?

[Jon]

"Arab blood" in her veins!

I want to see that sidduch!

That man--and his family--won't survive another week in the community; and not because of his immorality.

[Jon]

"I saw the Arab family next to the operating room, and I was very pained to see them. I sent them a thank-you letter and I personally have no problem with the fact they're Arab," he added."

How nice of him to send a note. How nice he has no problems with Arabs Here was a chance to do a Kidush Hashem by walking into that room to the family and embracing them and thanking them for their sacrifice and maybe even saying Tehillim for their comfort and grief, but what does he do? he sends a letter. Im gratefull to the family for doing this for the little girl who needed those organs and Im glad the Arab family had no problems with JEWS getting those organs. The father is pig and a mamzer though.

Posted by: PishPosh | January 29, 2009 at 04:30 PM
----------------------------------

I saw that too!

He wouldn't even go talk to the family in person! He sent them a note and then expressed concern over the "Arab blood"!

These people provoke the worst stereotypes about Jews--greedy, only interested in ourselves, social parasites who take, take, take and live off of everybody else with no shame whatsoever.

I swear, who invented people like this man and Elyashim?

[Ben]

The father of the girl is as ugly a racist as some muslims in Iran that afraid to touch a Jew in order not to become impure. I looks like there we as a people can sink as low as the Iranians. This is absolutely shocking and the man is disgusting!

[WoolSilkCotton]

Who would want an organ donation from a haredi, anyway?
The haredi heart is filled with poison and hatred.

[fffuuu]

Ain't that just like a Jew. Take, take, take, and no give. Fuck'em.

[Yochanan Lavie]

I am tempted to do a "Hungry Heart" parody, but the post is old.

Shmarya: What's the point of allowing anti-Semite assholes to post here? You banned the Rev. "Rabbi" Neil, and at least he wasn't a hatemonger.

[maven]

Rabbidw-

Can you contact me through Shmarya? I was very close to Dr. Korman, and do what I do today as a result. Korman and Tendler had synthesized a novel anthracycline, similar to adriamycin, but it caused too much cardiac toxicity and didn't make it into practice, but there was an editorial about them back in 1964 in Time magazine!

Elyashiv, of course, is taking this extreme position because it was R. Ovadiah Yosef who offered up psak that allowed for skin transplants (he was moved by the torment of soldiers with burns who were unable to be helped because there was no skin bank). Elyashiv has an extreme political agenda that is geared to make halacha incompatible with any aspect of modernity, reversing a positive trend that had been gaining ground for many years (when the first liver transplant was done in Israel a few years ago, there was no opposition from any of the Rabbinical groups, and they allowed use of patient controlled anesthesia on Shabbat, I bet that too is being contested, though I haven't asked lately; it may explain why we've had some high profile Rabbis go to the US for treatment recently). *sigh*
The fact on the ground, however, is that I've participated in many many discontinuations of life support among chareidim, including rabbis, both in Israel and in the USA, because what happens in reality is very different than what they publish publically.

[Yakira]

I do not CARE WHAT THE HALAKHAH SAYS ABOUT ORGAN DONATIONS: I will donate all of my organs upon my death and have my body cremated. As far as afterlife is concerned, if God really wants me to have a physical body to resurrect then I am sure HE WILL PROVIDE ME WITH ANOTHER BODY!! It is far more important to donate organs to save lives than to preserve some MAN-MADE LAWS.