Chaos On Mount Meron

Details:

Lindenstrauss: Chaos at Mt. Meron
By DAN IZENBERG

One-and-a-half million people visit the grave of Rabbi Shimon Bar Yohai on Mt. Meron each year, but the holy site is improperly administered and in a state of disrepair, state comptroller Micha Lindenstrauss has found in a special report released on Sunday.


The state comptroller also found that the celebrations on Lag Ba'Omer draw 250,000 to 400,000 people each year but are illegal because the regional council does not issue a permit, and dangerous because there is no supervision of the accommodations and the activities that take place there.

In summing up his conclusions, the state comptroller wrote: "In view of the status and importance of the site to the Israeli public and the severe findings of this report, there must be an urgent and comprehensive examination of the possibility of handing over the administration and maintenance of the site and the surrounding area to one central body, either government appointed or under the government's supervision."

More people visit Bar Yohai's grave than any other holy site in Israel, other than the Western Wall. Nevertheless, there is no effective management of the site. Four religious trusts claim to have rights over the grave and each acts as it sees fit. The Merom Hagalil regional council has not tried to assert its own authority over the site.

As a result of the administrative chaos, there has been a great deal of illegal construction at or near the grave. For example, "in 1980, an awning was added to the visitors' center supported by iron beams connected to the northern wall of the original building, which conceal part of the upper windows and ruin the unique and ancient look of the northern façade." All the additional construction was executed without building permits.

The grave itself was built in the 18th century. The Antiquities Authority Law states that any man-built structure from the 18th century on which has historical value may be declared an antiquity. The law imposes severe restrictions on what can be done at an antiquities site. However, the Antiquities Authority has not declared Bar Yohai's grave an antiquity and therefore it is unprotected by the law.

On the other hand, the grave is considered a holy site according to the Law for the Preservation of Holy Sites. This law also applies certain restrictions to the site, but in the case of Bar Yohai's grave, these restrictions, including prohibitions against establishing kiosks or stalls, begging or soliciting contributions, are ignored.

Lindenstrauss found that the regional council refuses to grant a permit for the Lag Ba'Omer celebrations because the site is unsafe for the large number of people who attend them. It does this even though it is fully aware that hundreds of thousands of people will come anyway. In other words, the council chooses to "solve" the lack of
security, safety, sanitation and efficient transportation by shutting its eyes to the problems and refusing to grant a permit.

The state comptroller found that during last year's celebrations there were severe problems in transporting the pilgrims to the grave site. For example, there were not enough car parks, too many vehicles were allowed to reach the site itself, causing severe traffic jams, and the police lost control of the traffic.

Individuals set up mobile homes and awnings for those wishing to spend the night at the site. The mobile homes are inflammable and the pilgrims make bonfires nearby. The homes siphon water from taps paid for by the government and divert sewage to the fields nearby.

The site is overcrowded so that rescue workers cannot easily reach it in case of an accident or terrorist attack.

Yehiye b'seder. It will be okay.

That Israel mantra, which basically means "no matter how negligent we are, no matter how much we screw up, in the end everything will work out for the best," has a lot to do with the chaos in Meron every year, just as it provides the cultural underpinnings for much else unruly in Israeli society.

But, in Meron's case, there is also fighting between the four religious groups that claim control over Bar Yohai's tomb – haredim and Sefardi haredim.

Meron on Lag Ba'omer is like Woodstock – but with far fewer safety precautions and much less organization.

What Meron lacks in nudity and free love it more than makes up for with chaos.

Will the comptroller's report bring order and safety to the Lag Ba'omer chaos?

I doubt it.

It's election season in Israel and no Likud or Kadima politician will move to enforce order, because that move will be seen in haredi circles as anti-haredi.

And, truth be told, few non-religious politicians care about something that primarily effects haredim and Sefardim – especially when haredim and Sefardim themselves do not care.

So, it's probably yehiye b'seder until, God forbid…

Comments

[Archie Bunker]

"What Meron lacks in nudity and free love"

You could have gotten the point across without mentioning that.

Then again, this blog is just a mirror of all your pent up frustration of what you feel you were deprived of during your 20 years as a Chabadnik.

[Anon]

--You could have gotten the point across without mentioning that.--

He drew a parallel - and a contrast between the two events.

That's called "writing". That's why we call him a writer.

You want to know why we call YOU a pedophile?

[Archie Bunker]

You call people pedophiles when you don't even know who they are because you're a perverted nut.

[Anon]

--You call people pedophiles when you don't even know who they are--

You assume a lot.

[G-d]

You are forgetting that G-d watches over those who can't watch over themselves.

If you want to criticize or shut down Bar Yochai, you can use the same reasoning to shut down the entire state of Israel.

As a whole, Israel is severely overcrowded with Jews in a very Small geographic area which makes them vulnerable to attack, much more than if they remained spread out all over the world.

Israel as whole is a liability and is vulnerable to attack so let's "shut it down" because no "permit" can guarantee that Jews will not continue to be attacked by terrorists and they are in fact attacked nearly every day.

How else can you explain the FACT and it is a FACT that Bar Yochai has not been attacked by terrorists, in recent years, although it has no proper security so far, and is impossible to protect as is, yet it is not and has not and will not be attacked?

Unless you concede that there is a G-d who is in control and watches over us and G-d can do his job even without a "permit".

[Archie Bunker]

Anon is either completely nuts or purposely lying, hoping that if he calls an anonymous poster a "pedophile" enough times, readers will begin to believe it, thus discrediting what the person writes.

[Anon]

--Unless you concede that there is a G-d who is in control and watches over us and G-d can do his job even without a "permit".--

So.......

By your logic the Orthodox Jews who were killed in Mumbai were......sinners who deserved what they got?

[Anon]

--readers will begin to believe it,--

SOME Orthodox rabbis are pedophiles - therefore you MUST be.

That's YOUR line of logic, Archie - I am merely co-opting it.

Actually - I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt - your ACTUAL line of logic is that if ONE member of a groups believes or does something..............

I at least waited until there were a few dozen Orthodox rabbis so accused before I (correctly) concluded that you personally like little boys.

[Archie Bunker]

Anon forgot about the Conservative, Reform & Reconstructionist "rabbis" who are even more numerous.

[Yoel B]

You are forgetting that G-d watches over those who can't watch over themselves.
[snip]
Unless you concede that there is a G-d who is in control and watches over us and G-d can do his job even without a "permit".

אל תסמוך על הנס

[Anon]

--Anon forgot about the Conservative, Reform & Reconstructionist "rabbis" who are even more numerous.--

I forget nothing, but do note 2 things:

1. Those so convicted inside those movements were tossed FROM the movements.

2. You are trying to use the old "well, THEY did it too" excuse to justify your own sick behavior.

Pathetic.

[WoolSilkCotton]

+++ if he calls an anonymous poster a "pedophile" enough times, readers will begin to believe it, thus discrediting what the person writes.

Posted by: Archie Bunker | December 07, 2008 at 09:44 AM+++

I believe that you may very well be a pedophile.

You seem able to justify anything you want to say or believe, because you are convinced that you know the will and word of God.
A good haredi guy like you can easily convince yourself that pedophilia is ok, just like so many haredim use prostitutes and justify it by saying the women aren't Jewish. And even if those women are Jewish, they're not religious, so it's ok to have sex with them.
Look at the classified ads in the Village Voice or New York magazine, and you'll see 'escort services' that specialize in 'yiddish speaking clientele'. Archie, you should call.

Just like your haredi friend who molested a patient at Columbia Presbyterian, I see you as potentially no different. Your reasoning and his are identical.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Haredim riot across Israel in protest of slain rebbetzin's autopsy

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=998788

Golly gee Archie, I thought it was only black people who riot.

[Archie Bunker]

WoolSulkingCottonPicker, you are a very twisted man.

All of the sexual acts you just listed are forbidden and I never justified them.

[Archie Bunker]

Regarding the Haaretz story, let me know when they trample people to death.

Thanks

[Anon]

--I believe that you may very well be a pedophile--

In fairness - probably not (but it has been a nice ride watching him get rattled - and he IS rattled).

My point was - and I think your point is, that he (Archie) can apply the most asinine logic, make the most vile suggestions, make the most disgusting statements (like the sexual one concerning monkeys and blacks) and we are supposed to simply accept it AND sit on our hands while the owner of this blog sits on his and uses those comments to drive readers to his site - BUT, turn the same words, the same innuendo the EXACT same logic back on Archie.................

I have enjoyed watching you challenge Archie, and have GREATLY enjoyed watching the man who says he is only going over the top to jerk the chain of liberals not recognize that his chain is getting jerked just as hard - in exactly the same manner.

[Shmarya]

My point was - and I think your point is, that he (Archie) can apply the most asinine logic, make the most vile suggestions, make the most disgusting statements (like the sexual one concerning monkeys and blacks) and we are supposed to simply accept it AND sit on our hands while the owner of this blog sits on his and uses those comments to drive readers to his site…

NO.

I do not censor people. I have said very clearly that Archie's racism is representative of haredi racism and, as such, having him display it here is a good thing.

The more people who realize how hateful haredi really are toward other minorities (and to non-Orthodox Jews and to Modern Orthodox Jews), the better.

[Anon]

--I do not censor people. --

Hmmmm.......

Then who was it trying to censor me 1 thread beneath this?

He's using your handle.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Anon, agreed.

+++Archie Bunker | December 07, 2008 at 11:26 AM ++the sexual acts you just listed are forbidden and I never justified them+++
A lot of stuff is forbidden, like senseless hatred of nonJews and nonreligious Jews, but that doesn't stop you. A religious person can justify anything if he can rationalize to himself that God is ok with it.

And regarding the Haaretz story, are your rioting haredi friends being careful not to trample anyone? What if they succeeded in breaking into the Forensic Medicine Institute? Those a-holes would have trashed the place, and you'd be cheering them on.

[Anon]

--The more people who realize how hateful haredi really are toward other minorities (and to non-Orthodox Jews and to Modern Orthodox Jews), the better.--

Here's the problem with that.

Archie does not speak for the Haredi - he speaks for Archie. Archie filth is Archie filth - it is NOT Haredi filth.

That's been my point from the beginning - that is is twisted and sick when he tries to paint the Conservative, the Reform, the Reconstructionists and the Modern OJ around the singular words and/or actions of individuals (and not LEADERS) within these movements is simply wrong. THAT is what he does - and he squeals like a baby when the same logic is turned back on him. And it APPEARS that you are doing the same thing with HIM as your example.

You're better served doing what you do best - uncovering REAL examples of attrocities and writing about it.

I do not dispute that there are a great many haredi who think and believe as you have suggested, but also know for fact that there are a great many more who are more concerned with their own path to Olam Habah then they are with mine - or yours. Can't say that there are a LOT of haredi Jews around here - but frankly I get along with them famously even though they don't choose to daven with me.

[critical_minyan]

i agree with shmarya,
meron is an accident waiting to happen.
hopefully the police can organize the site without a disaster having to happen first.

[critical_minyan]

thank you shmarya for featuring this story,

[ANONY]

Archie IS a pedophile who lives in Monsey.

[Just a Goy]

> 'What Meron lacks in nudity and free love it more than makes up for with chaos.' - Shmarya

It think the associated analysis, witty - a bit, tongue and cheek.

And after all, if we can't laugh at ourselves, once in a while, we're defanetly screwed.

Does G-d have a sense of humor? I know G-d does - after all, He created me.

[Shmarya]

--I do not censor people. --

Hmmmm.......

Then who was it trying to censor me 1 thread beneath this?

He's using your handle.

I told you to stop calling Archie a pedophile.

[Shmarya]

Archie does not speak for the Haredi - he speaks for Archie. Archie filth is Archie filth - it is NOT Haredi filth.

It is very similar to the filth I heard daily for 20 + years as a haredi living in several different haredi communities.

You have to love the orthodox bashing on this blog. No wonder Moshiach hasn't come yet, we are too busy fighting amongst ourselves.

[WoolSilkCotton]

+++Posted by: | December 07, 2008 at 12:11 PM+++

There is only one orthodox person being bashed here, and he richly deserves it.

[critical_minyan]

if archie is a pedophile report him to the police, don't accuse him without justification on this website.
i don't agree with everything he writes, but he is entitled to his opinion.

[Anon]

--I told you to stop calling Archie a pedophile.--

And threatened to lock me out if I didn't.

Maybe the word "censor" isn't in the dictionary you personally own, but I assure you that you met the criteria.

Mind you - I accept that you have the right to do so (question the means given how quickly one can generate a new IP), but you simply can't say you don't do something WHILE doing it - and come across as credible.

[Anon]

And let me add one thing, Shmarya.

Read the comments of your non-Jewish posters. More and more often they are reading what you are writing, and they are blaming "the Jews". Not the Rubashikins - not the Lubavich - not the haredi......

The Jews.

You proud of that are you?

[WoolSilkCotton]

There is no evidence at this time that Archie is a pedophile. No children have come forward yet.

Shmarya, you came down pretty hard on Anon over the pedophile nonsense. I've been looking at this blogsite for the past 4 months or so, and I don't recall you ever threatening Archie with censorship.

I guess we don't want to risk losing Archie, do we. These threads would be less than half their size if we did, and so, de facto, you certify Archie's filth as kosher.

How about a little 'Command key-X' next time Archie goes into an anti-black or anti-gay diatribe?

[Anon]

--How about a little 'Command key-X' next time Archie goes into an anti-black or anti-gay diatribe?--

Or anti-Reform, or anti-Conservative, or anti-Reconstructionist, or anti-Modern Orthodox, or anti-Intermarried, or.......

Especially when he gets personal - which is always.

[Anon]

--but he is entitled to his opinion.--

As am I.

Be thankful I am not sharing my opinion right now.

"On the other hand, the grave is considered a holy site according to the Law"

So is the Temple Mount and its environs, but we see how little they do there. I guess they only can intimidate Jews who disrepect holy sites and not Arabs.

[omg]

Are the Chabad Lubavich considered to be haredi??

[Anon]

--Are the Chabad Lubavich considered to be haredi??--

By Chabad Lubavich - yes.

There are a LOT of other haredi who would say "no".

[Just a Goy]

> 'Read the comments of your non-Jewish posters. More and more often they are reading what you are writing, and they are blaming "the Jews". Not the Rubashikins - not the Lubavich - not the haredi......' - Anon

We're not that ignorant, Anon.

Anyone who'd jump to such conclusions reading FM, would already have issues OR were NOT reading the full context of discourse.

But the chastising - doesn't help anyone, one iota. You too help to feed the flames, at times, as well as others (my sole intent - enlightenment, not insult).

[Anon]

--We're not that ignorant, Anon.--

Really?

I quote:

"Your (sic) no longer welcome to this town" (referring to Jews in General)

"Why did all of you come here in the first place? " (again, referring to Jews in General)

"You and the plant can both leave on the same train back to NY where you came from." (again, referring to Jews in General)

"This town needs to go back to "Mayberry", with Andy and Barney, where we can walk the streets and get back to knowing our neighbors, neighbors we used to know and trust." (He is clear in his meaning - Jew free)

"The only obstucle (sic) that we need to be saved from is the Jewish community!"

"Let the winds blow the crap out of town." (meaning Jews - all Jews.)

"This is my fear. If it remains kosher and we have to have the Jewish community involved the public in general around this area is totally pissed off with them."

"Let's get the kosher business out of here,"

"hit Hiway 18!!!!"

""I think it is pretty ignorant on your part to expect us citizens to put our trust in individuals we do not know!"

I have dozens of others - statements made NOT about the Rubashkins - but about "the Jews" and "the Jewish community".

So......apparently you ARE that ignorant.

[Anon]

--So......apparently you ARE that ignorant.--

Note: Generic "you"

Specific "you" has never been anything BUT respectful.

[David]

Archie, you are constantly full of shit. Go back to your Crown Heights dump and worship rebbe.....

[state of disgust]

The biggest problem with the ramblings above - and for the most part they are ramblings - is that they have nothing to do with the issues raised for discussion. If you guys want to lock yourselves in a closet and beat yourselves black and blue be my guest. Archie and Anon -go off site, and do what you like but don't subject the rest of us to your rants. I have better things to do with my time and don't wish to to wade through the blather in order to get to meaningful discussion.

[Just a Goy]

Anon,

Some Jews and gentiles are ignorant/blind/prejudice. We all have the ability to see around their distorted/views, and hopefully enlighten. Not all of us may have the education or the background to seek out the truth.

The world is full of conflict/disagreement... does it mean we must accept it?

You've got to admit, some gentiles have a d-mn good reason to hold hostile feelings towards OJs in Postville; especially those responsible for the crimes committed against Postville, illegals, the banks, animals, etc...

These people have no idea what a reformed, modern or ortho is, let alone the sects within - so they generalize - categorize as one and the same.

When they read the bickering between Jews here at FM, racists rants, bickering between sects, witness the deep divisions within the OJ community, read supporters of Rubashkin, perhaps not fully understanding how complicated Judaism and various interpretations are, their perceptions, views - Therefor in their eyes, Judaism as one, devoid of sects.

You and I both know, it is wrong to look at a people and categorize them as one; there are too many things that make each and everyone use unique within our general categorization.

Are all Americans good?

Are all Israeli's good?

Are all Postvillian's good? (is that even a word?!!)

You know the answer.

Ignorance is bliss. We have to educate, to help them understand.

[Just a Goy]

state of disgust,

Agreed.

[Anon]

--These people have no idea what a reformed, modern or ortho is, let alone the sects within - so they generalize - categorize as one and the same.--

So......their ignorance excuses their bigotry?

Not in my house.

[Anon]

--state of disgust,

Agreed.--

Then don't respond.

It's really quite simple.

[Anon]

--We have to educate, to help them understand.--

Been doing that for 1800 years now - and at the end of each "education" cycle a whole bunch of us end up dead.

Come in - join the tribe and wear the moccasins and see how you feel about it then. You can't really understand what it means to be the target - until the cross hairs actually land on you.

[Shmarya]

And let me add one thing, Shmarya.

Read the comments of your non-Jewish posters. More and more often they are reading what you are writing, and they are blaming "the Jews". Not the Rubashikins - not the Lubavich - not the haredi......

The Jews.

You proud of that are you?

Please.

I report the Rubashkins' crimes and the crimes of the people who cover for or aid them.

Direct your blame to the criminals – not to the messenger.

[Just a Goy]

No Anon,

We have to educate, explain, enlighten.

There's no excuse for bigotry, not in anyone's house.

But if you're raised by white supremacist who hate everyone other than their own, a sect of Hasidic Jews who hate everyone other than their own... have little education, etc... we have an obligation to reach out and enlighten. Reaching out, explaining who, what we are, is the first step in enculturating others.

And as to me, I am a Jew, Anon, but likely NOT by your standards nor personal interpretation. That doesn't mean you should mistreat me nor belittle me. All I would hope, you would respect me, and perhaps one day, accept me.

[Just a Goy]

Never say never Anon. Never quit - Never give up.

[Office of the Chief Rabbi]

We last visited Kever Rashbi on Mt Meron in 1990, and we believe we encountered the closest thing we'd ever seen to out and out Avodah Zarah: candlesticks with the Baba Sali's likeness (for the Sfardim) and with R" MM of 770's on ones for his people, which are, according to Yehuda Krinsky speaking at the funeral last week, everyone ("...reaching every Jew, till no Jew is left behind.") Mind you, he [Rebbe] was still alive at this point.
Avodah Zarah. Mammash.

[Anon]

--And as to me, I am a Jew, Anon, but likely NOT by your standards nor personal interpretation.--

My "standards" and "interpretation" are hallachic.

What are yours - and what exactly do you believe give you the right to supersede a few thousand years of said hallachah?

--accept me--

undergo a hallachic conversion - not a problem.

--We have to educate, explain, enlighten.--

You mean like the Ramban did - in Spain?

[Anon]

--Never quit - Never give up.--

Jim Valvano? You're alive?

[Just a Goy]

Anon,

I am entering Halachic conversion. It's difficult because there isn't an Orthodox synagogue within 60 miles, but do what I personally must.

I must study diligently before presenting myself before a rebbe and be prepared for the challenges presented, as well as potential rejection.

Understand, my road isn't initiated by marriage or any other necessity - it is one guided by my own heart.

I would appreciate any guidance you might have to offer... Although the internet is filled with materials, it is and can be overwhelming.

That request is extended to any and all...

[Anon]

--I am entering Halachic conversion.--

Then you know that you WILL be a Jew - but aren't yet.

Good luck - the few I know that have taken it describe it as a hell of a trip.

[Anon]

--I would appreciate any guidance you might have to offer.--

milcham@new.rr.com

[Archie Bunker]

I started suspecting this morning that Anon is Rebitzman.

After he provided a Wisconsin email address to Just a Goy, he gave himself away.

Rebitzman is too much of a COWARD to post all the filthy language under his original moniker that people know him by so he starts using the Anon handle.

Rebitzman / Anon is a BIG BABY who went beserk after I directed comments at him and his Conservative "rabbi" wife and has tried every low trick and personal attack since then to discredit my posts.

[Anon]

--After he provided a Wisconsin email address to Just a Goy, he gave himself away.--

Uh...no, but a REAL nice try.

He's in Green Bay - I'm in Appleton.

And you are still an asshole.

[Archie Bunker]

A word of caution to Just a Goy.

It is not my job to encourage anyone to convert. If someone wishes to do so it is his or her business but you are wasting your time if you take any advice from the worthless fool from Wisconsin and his wife who wears the pants as a Conservative "rabbi".

The Conservatives sprung up recently as a watered down version of Judaism that is doomed to failure as their intermarriage rate is exceedingly high. Their sham "conversions" are not universally recognized and are not even considered by the Israeli government.

If you wish to convert as Orthodox, you MIGHT find an orthodox rabbi willing to get involved in a long distance case but many will expect you to relocate to where there is a religious Jewish community.

There also may be an orthodox rabbi closer than you think as many college campuses have resident orthodox rabbis.

[Anon]

--It is not my job to encourage anyone to convert. If someone wishes to do so it is his or her business but you are wasting your time if you take any advice from the worthless fool from Wisconsin and his wife who wears the pants as a Conservative "rabbi".--

There are a lot of folks who would say better her than a pervert who sucks off little boys.

--There also may be an orthodox rabbi closer than you think as many college campuses have resident orthodox rabbis.--

Which is where I would personally chose to direct him.

You see - I don't think Orthodox Judaism is evil.

Just you, Rab-boy.

[Archie Bunker]

You mean Jeff Conn-man doesn't do conversions?

[Anon]

--and are not even considered by the Israeli government.--

Well - this is a lie, but I guess considering the source.

Fact is, if YOU were to convert him, the rabbinate in Israel would reject him as well.

So, I suppose that SOMEWHERE in your ramblings you must have a point, but you hide it well.

[Anon]

--You mean Jeff Conn-man doesn't do conversions?--

He's a Cantor - not a rabbi.

Maybe YOU allow cantors to perform conversions - but REAL Jews do not.

[Archie Bunker]

Anon, cut the crap.

You know darn well that Conservative "conversions" are flatly rejected in Israel as invalid.

You're like the little kid who got caught picking his nose and yells no, Archie was picking his nose first.

[Anon]

--You know darn well that Conservative "conversions" are flatly rejected in Israel as invalid.--

The 2 families who just made alliyah from here, and were accepted under the Law of Return will be so surprised to hear that they are there illegally.

[Anon]

Archie - hate to bust your bubble, but on March 31, 2005, the Israeli Supreme Court ruled 7-4 that ALL conversions performed outside of Israel (Orthodox, Conservative, Reform......) would be recognized by the authorities under the Law of Return.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Archie, hurry on down to K-Mart!

Their ad in the Sunday newspaper says that boys' pants are half off.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Archie, you're giving advice to Just a Goy about how to go about becoming a Jew?

You are the LEAST qualified person to give such advice. You are the WORST example in the world of what a religious Jew is. Better he should remain a Christian, Muslim, atheist, agnostic, or anything else, than to become a Jew like you.

[Anon]

--Their ad in the Sunday newspaper......__

Humor Shmarya - IMPLY it's Archie, but don't say it directly.

I'll know who you mean.

[Archie Bunker]

WoolSilkCottonPicker, try improving your reading skills.

I said I am NOT encouraging JAG or anyone else to convert.

And Attention K-Mart Shoppers, there seems to be a pervert staking out little clothes who posted something at 9:13 pm.

[Archie Bunker]

The secularist court of Israel did make a ruling in religious matters which is a farce for the so called Jewish state but unless they can get rid of the rabbis who administrate Jewish identity issues, the bogus Reform & Conservative "rabbis" don't have a fat chance of having their handiwipes, I mean handiwork, recognized.

Just give it up already as in a few generations there won't be any such thing as Reform & Conservative after all your descendants intermarry.

[Anon]

--The secularist court of Israel did make a ruling in religious matters --

So you lied.

Thanks for being man enough to admit it.

[WoolSilkCotton]

+++ December 07, 2008 at 09:31 PM+++

Yes indeed, Archie's brand of orthodox have a bright future, as they molest their children, all go on welfare, never work, never serve in the military, and cheat on their wives. Their expertise is complaining about how awful other denominations of Jews are.

No Jew is valid unless he is exactly like Archie.

But don't worry, folks. There is no proof that Archie is a child molester.

[Just a Goy]

I asked Anon, and any of you - for assistance, if willing.

We all have varying points if view. I happen to be more open to the choir, opposed to the individual.

Anon is controversial, deep regarding his theology... I don't always agree with his statements, but we ALL have the right to differ - something that will assure me a perspective of an encompassing theology.

You all have voices, not always in unison, but I'm truly honored by anyone who extends a hand.

Let's end the badmouthing here... in every person, there's a light.

[Archie Bunker]

You can always count on Anon and lately WSC too to lie in general and also falsely accuse me of lying when I speak up.

WSCottonPicker just ignores the fact that he was caught lying about Nobel laureates and Pulitzer prize winners, etc, among OJs.

Now he lies that they "all" go on welfare, "never" work and "never" serve in the military. It just so happens that there is an entire Orthodox brigade in the IDF and there are even a significant number of Orthodox Jews in the US military, considering the miniscule percentage of Orthodox Jews in the United States.

His constant insinuations about molestation & adultery and more a reflection on him than anyone he is trying to smear.

[Archie Bunker]

are more a reflection on him than anyone he is trying to smear.

[Archie Bunker]

One of these jokers also claimed that secular movements do not cover up for abusive "rabbis" in their ranks.

That is false.

I don't know much about Reform & Reconstructionist to comment but the COnservative Assembly has covered up for at least 2 members.

[Archie Bunker]

Parts of the Conservative movement have also jumped ship after the flagship JTS seminary started allowing open gays to run amok.

[Just a Goy]

Archie,

Are you rejecting me?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

[Archie Bunker]

JAG,

The answer is NO - I am NOT rejecting you.

I am cautioning you however that our religion is much more difficult and demanding that what you have been used to.

Jews are also targeted by much anti-Semitism including from self-hating Jews that are found on these pages.

When you make your evaluation, you should also consider becoming a follower of the Noahide laws. There are only 7 laws and that is all that is required in your situation.

The Jews are not a nation of proselytizers although we are commanded to love any convert who joins our ranks and warned repeatedly in the Bible to be extra careful to not slight the convert in any way.

[Michael Dorfman]

What Meron lacks in nudity and free love .
o_O. Great! I love it!

[Yochanan Lavie]

JAG: Some day your initials will stand for "Just a Ger." I do encourage converts, esp. ones like you. But it is a difficult religion, true. I think it's worth it, though.

Meanwhile, enjoy front row seats to Kamsa vs. Bar Kamsa, round IV.

[Redo]

"What Meron lacks in nudity and free love"

You could have gotten the point across without mentioning that.

Riiiiiight.

And if he hadn't noted that gathering at Meron is conducted without hedonism, someone would have made a "brilliant" observation like:

"Meron is NOTHING like Woodstock. There are no naked people running around, and no one is engaging in free love while wallowing in mud."

So . . .

[Sarah]

Archie,
Could you please explain what you mean by "...after the flagship JTS seminary started allowing open gays to run amok"? I have friends who teach there and family members studying there and they have not witnessed anyone "running amok," openly GLBT students or straight ones. And BTW, calling it JTS seminary is redundant as the S in JTS stands for seminary.
Sarah