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November 16, 2008

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Robert Hoffmann [South Africa]

To all the gentiles and Jewish people in Postville

We watched your program on television today about the successfull merging of your comunity.

Thank you kindly for such an exhample you as a people of HaShem set for our town here in South Africa !

May this short "problem" be a test for your steadfastness in His ways.

Shalom to you all in the Name of Yahshua ha Mashiach.

Robert Hoffmann [ South Africa]

Shmarya

My criticism of Chabad in this situation is that they (as a national Jewish organization) did nothing for the non-Jews that helped kill and process the food that they have eaten. I find this lack of action absolutely disgraceful, but at the same time I am glad that they have done something for the Jews (better than doing nothing at all in my opinion).

If that tractor trailer had arrived last week stocked with food for Jews only, there would have been riots and, I fear, murders.

Please update on the status of all of your charity efforts and clarify the relationship with the Minnesota synagogue

Go to the post asking for donations. The total raised is posted there, in the comments.

It's about $1,050 in online donations and another $6,000 to $7,000 in pledges, including people who sent checks to St. Bridget's.

The Minnesota synagogue did its own food drive because Rabbi Allen was called just before Shabbat and told Jews were starving. He did not have time to plan a response. He just sent out a group email asking for food, and then spoke about it in shul, I'm told, both Friday night and Saturday.

I announced the drive here and then directed locals to give there. I also coordinated with Rabbi Allen.

Please clarify what will happen if no preference is listed on the PayPal form

We'll use the money where it's needed most.

Jerome Soller

Shmarya,
Thank you for all of the good you do. I am glad that Chabad finally did something here also.

http://chabad.info/index.php?url=article_en&id=12974

Who cares who gives, as long as the people in Postville receive. My criticism of Chabad in this situation is that they (as a national Jewish organization) did nothing for the non-Jews that helped kill and process the food that they have eaten. I find this lack of action absolutely disgraceful, but at the same time I am glad that they have done something for the Jews (better than doing nothing at all in my opinion).

Please update on the status of all of your charity efforts and clarify the relationship with the Minnesota synagogue. I am preparing a packet for some groups here in Utah. Please clarify what will happen if no preference is listed on the PayPal form. Will it go to both? The following does not represent me, but the realities of some: I mention that as some conservative Jews have reservations about contributing to a Catholic church, but still want to support the non-Jews in Postville. In other words, they would probably feel uncomfortable writing out a check to Saint Bridget's. The ideal situation would be something like money put into the PayPal account goes to both Jews and non-Jews, if nothing is specified.

I am posting these questions to the blog, so others can benefit from your response. On Thursday, I will leave to visit my parents and brother in Long Island for Thanksgiving and may not have Internet access for a few days.

Jerome

P.S. One last note from college football news. University of Utah 48 - Brigham Young University 24, second BCS bowl for the University of Utah football in 4 years!!!!!!!!!

Shmarya

Total PayPal Donations through Thursday, 11-20-08:

$1055

Pledges (both checks on their way to me or those on their way to St. Bridget's):

Approximately $7,000

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We will try to do another needs assessment Monday and let you know where the effort stands then.

Thank you!

chickenman

announced on chabad.info
a large effort in ny to load a 40 foot trailer with food and supplies for pistville jewish community relief.

finally!

Just a Goy

> 'The level of charity you will see is not going to help anything.' - BTA

I disagree... anything is appreciated.

By being passive we'll also be stoking the flames that are already showing volatility along with the suffering.

BTA

Shmarya, surely there has to be a better use of your time than this? You did a great job advocating for more investigation of Rubashkin, don't ruin it.

The level of charity you will see is not going to help anything.

Un-Orthodox and Unimpressed

3 days of fundraising. At that is only PayPal donations, as clearly specified.

If all the checks come in as promised we have raised about $8000.

Posted by: Shmarya | November 19, 2008 at 06:28 PM

IF they all come in. Talk is cheap.

CG

Anyone hear about the Rubashkin Bailout Plan?

Yochanan Lavie

This thing is breaking so fast, instead of PayPal, you should use Pay Per View.

Shmarya

3 days of fundraising. At that is only PayPal donations, as clearly specified.

If all the checks come in as promised we have raised about $8000.

Un-Orthodox and Unimpressed

Tuesday's Update:

$122 in PayPal Donations for a new total of $1037.

>>>>>>>>>>>

A thousand bucks in almost a week of fundraising?

The old timers in my grandfather's shteibel did better than that on a decent shabbos morning!

chickenman

thank you state of the jews for the info on what is happening with jewish famalies. hopefully they will all find a way out of this.

StillNotShmarya

broken promises all over place to accept union workers has not worked so far--maybe latest court decision will force these old slavers to hire not shackle:

"In an unrelated legal setback for Agriprocessors, the U.S. Supreme Court declined to hear its case against the National Labor Relations Board, according to a report in the industry publication Meatingplace. A lower court had rejected the company’s argument that a union vote at its Brooklyn warehouse was invalid because its workers were illegal immigrants and therefore not entitled to organize.

Agriprocessors did not respond to requests for comment."

ML

Nechama should also be thanked for kindly donating the use of their transports.

www.nechama.org

 state of the Jews

I was asked to pass along the following:

The Jewish families in Postville are grateful for the kosher food that was delivered yesterday from Beth Jacob synagogue in St. Paul. The kashrus and quality of the products was great and much appreciated!

FYI -
A clear account of the number of Jewish families left in Postville remains hazy but best guess is 75-80. That would be between 150 and 160 adults. There are conflicting numbers about children and infants. On the high side: 400 children and infants. On the low side: 200.
Interesting question: If the workers receive pay checks this week, will they use the money to pay bills (heating, water, mortgage/rent), or use the money to pay for the transportation costs to leave Postville?

What would you do?

Shmarya

Tuesday's Update:

$122 in PayPal Donations for a new total of $1037.

A trailer of food, collected by Beth Jacob Congregation in Saint Paul, MN, arrived in Postville. Most of the food was kosher. Some of the food came from Cooper's Supermarket, which gave half of the food it had collected for its food shelf drive.

The food was sorted by volunteers from the Postville Jewish community and the kosher food was kept by them for distribution.

The non-kosher food (and kosher food Chabad and haredim generally do not eat) was due to be given to the Postville community food shelf this morning.

A portion of that food may be used to help Jeff Abbas and his crew of volunteers feed indigent workers at the temporary soup kitchen they have been running for the past week at the multicultural center where the radio station is housed.

chickenman

how amny jewish famalies are hanging on in Pville. with limited work are many staying???

Shmarya

Did that truck of food get to Postville today?

Yes. The food arrived about noon and was very well received.

neighbor girl

Did that truck of food get to Postville today?

Just a Goy

Thanks, Yochanan!

Un-Orthodox and Unimpressed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yf154tViSls#

Yochanan Lavie

JAG: I liked your 12:14 post. You're a "Goy" with a yiddische kup.

steve

Shmarya,

Sholom Mordechai needs your help to spring him from jail. Tell them how well you know him and that he's not a flight risk.

http://collive.com/show_news.rtx?id=741

Just a Goy

'The 3rd news item deals with manure application certificates. They should give an honorary one to Rubashkin and Lubinsky.'

Good one, Archie!

Archie Bunker

http://webstar.postbulletin.com/agrinews/310839227743693.bsp

If Alliant has 330 customers behind on payments (see the last item on that page), that must be at least half of Postville's population. Each customer in utility terminology is usually several people.

The 3rd news item deals with manure application certificates. They should give an honorary one to Rubashkin and Lubinsky.

Archie Bunker

Federal GIPSA investigation of Rubashkin.

http://webstar.postbulletin.com/agrinews/328544356059282.bsp

By Jean Caspers-Simmet

Agri News staff writer

POSTVILLE, Iowa -- USDA's Grain Inspection Packers and Stockyards Administration is investigating Agriprocessors, the kosher meatpacker and processor in Postville, according to a document filed with the U.S. Bankruptcy Court.

Agriprocessors filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection Nov. 4 In U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Eastern District of New York.

A document, filed Nov. 6 on behalf of creditor First Bank Business Capital asking for a change of venue/inter-district transfer to the Northern District of Iowa, lists as one of the reasons for the move that the Des Moines office of GIPSA is involved with Agriprocessors, "asserting trust claims under the Packers and Stockyards Act on behalf of allegedly unpaid sellers of livestock and live poultry" to Agriprocessors.

"Our policy is not to speak about ongoing investigations and that is an ongoing investigation," said Jay Johnson, regional director of GIPSA's Des Moines office. "We have people there."

Johnson said that any livestock producer that sells livestock and doesn't get paid or receives a bad check should contact the Des Moines GIPSA office as soon as possible.

Trust provisions in the Packers and Stockyards Act give cash sellers of livestock and poultry preferential treatment in a bankruptcy ahead of most secured creditors, Johnson said. Poultry growers who don't own birds, but grow them out for someone else have certain rights as well.

"Whenever there is a financial failure or complaints of people not getting paid, we send investigators to try to determine if there were any unpaid sellers or contractors," Johnson said. "We want to make sure that no one falls through the cracks. We want people to preserve their rights."

The regional GIPSA office is located in the Federal Building, 210 Walnut Street, Des Moines, IA 50309, telephone (515) 323-2579, fax (515) 323-2590.

you are going to burn in hell forever for false allegation you are making against the holy lubavtich community.

shmarya need a date

any of you girls here, would like to meat the lonely creater of this blog, he would love your company..keep him busy

Blogmeister

Let me see if I have this straight.

One governmental agency says they can't turn off the electricity and water to the chickens.

Another governmental agency says they CAN turn off the electricity and water to the people.

StillNotShmarya

another fund to help Hispanic workers stranded between Agriprocessor and the Immigration enforcement process:

St. Bridget's Hispanic Ministry Fund
PO Box 369
Attn: Deacon Pat Malanaphy
Postville, IA 52162

please make checks payable to:

St. Bridget's Hispanic Ministry Fund

Just a Goy

All humor aside,

We, that is, all of us, are extremely passionate regarding our posturing and positions. In some cases, quite clearly juxtaposed from one another, in stance as well as beliefs. Therefor, it is apparent at times, our passion and sincerity, has us at odds.

These are serious times complete with far reaching misfortunes.

For those who were offended by some of the occasional wit and controversial humor represented here, please understand - The vast majority of us are not cynical nor callus... It is in times like these - when we seek answers, we seek community. And within that community, we seek some sort of solace in comradery. On occasion, humor is the end result of our shame, frustrations and pain, as ALL of this is all too distressing to ignore. It is my belief, for not the occasional attempt at seeing some type of humor in these discussions, we all would seemingly go mad, simply through the guilt of any type of association we may hold, be it direct or indirectly to this crisis.

To remain action less and silent in these matters, would be, and is, irresponsible.

Those who are in denial of the facts must understand, you flaunt your ignorance not only before G-d, but our community as well. No one could possibly be ignorant enough to justify the wrongs of the Rubashkin syndicate. You know YOU are utterly held accountable for your own actions. IF that includes justifying the Rubashkin, you most definitely recognize, and know, right from wrong; know, your position is in no way sustainable concerning humanity OR faith.

How could anyone defend the indefensible?

Regarding inappropriate language, I would have to agree... we should be far more respectful, watching our language, as well as our meandering discussions. To the ladies and gentlemen who have called for censorship - It is NOT Shmarya's job to sensor posts, as that would defeat this site's sole purpose. In the same way many of us would not utter G-d's name in vain, we should consider the same, in respect for those who need not be subjected to such inappropriate language, be it English, Yiddish or Hebrew. WE must try to censor ourselves and judge the appropriateness of our own words and actions.

The entire purpose of this site is to SHARE so we may all become a more enlightened people.

Failed Messiah represents a gateway into TRUTH. If one has trouble with that, dispute it, but in terms in accordance with diplomacy. Make your point without blatant insults as that type of discourse leads to ‘Neverland’ (and it is now for sale).

To deny what is/has taken place, regarding the Rubashkin debacle, is senseless. You'll find no one here that’s that ignorant - who supports Shmarya's quest for truth, that will buy into your misdeeds.

To any one of you who have the audacity to point fingers at Shmarya, saying Agri's failure is in anyway his fault, is simply showing you utter ignorance of the facts. It is you who represent blind, in faith, that is representative of societies’ who have utterly failed their people as well as humanity.

You DON'T have to be a ortho, modern, reformed nor gentile to recognize the failings of man. All one has to do is open thine eyes, look... And if for some reason, you can still somehow justify your inhuman behaviors you may perpetrate on those less fortunate, of a different theological belief, a belief that you are in some way superior to the rest of mankind, you've missed the purpose, the wonderment and the beauty of the very, very short mortal life, we all are experiencing, right here, right now.


I personally apologize, to whomever, wherever I may have offended, through my sometimes, crude humor. But understand, sometimes humor is the best medicine for what ails us; some of the pain, anger and disappointments we all can feel.

Shalom aleichem.

Archie Bunker

I haven't read the sticky post for a few days and had not realized that the two overgrown babies on the blog, Rebitz"man" and ANONY were so fixated on me.

http://www.gazetteonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081118/NEWS/711189932/1006

City clerk Darcy Radleff said today that she and Mayor Robert Penrod will meet at 4 p.m. today with Allamakee County Emergency Management Coordinator Chris Dahlstrom to plan an emergency shelter that could open at week's end in Postville's Turner Hall.

Workers said this morning that the Agriprocessors plant suspended operations. A security officer told workers that the company plans to resume processing chickens and turkeys on Thursday.

The security officers also said paychecks would be available Thursday for employees who had worked the week of Nov. 3 and on Friday for employees who worked last week.

Radleff said the city and county relief effort will involve volunteers who have been providing food, shelter and transportation to displaced workers.

She said as many as 200 displaced workers remain in the Postville area.

farkakter_yid

Seems like the author managed to shed his observance, his memship in a cult (chabad, inc.), and any vestige of sanity if he ever had any - but he still clings strongly to the SCHNOR like the best of them ortho-hassids.
Save Postville? or help out fat shmaya....
you decide

 state of disgust

Shmarya:

I respectfully request that you identify the IP address of the poster at 7:53 am, and ban any posts from that address in the future.

This language is simply unacceptable by any standard.

Yochanan Lavie

Does the holy Lubavitcher community approve of nivel peh? The Rebbe, zt"l, certainly would not have approved.

Un-Orthodox and Unimpressed

Potty mouth.

Yochanan Lavie

"there absouletly right-you must be feeling guilt-you caused this catastrophe -i hope your happy with yourself-now youll have to find another jewish company to attack to make you feel better- im not chabad but never seen a more vile angry human being then yourself-maybe therapy would be better"

If Shmarya had therapy, Agri would not have hired child labor, not have given phony documents to workers, not have mistreated animals, not have done improper schechita, etc., etc.

Maybe there would also be no global warming if Shmarya had therapy. What are you waiting for, Shmarya?

Yochanan Lavie

Sadly: We are a nation of laws. Of course I feel bad for any human being who is suffering, no matter what their culture or immigration status. But in addition to the majority of good people who came here illegally for work, there are a few rogues who snuck in, causing a disproportionate amount of crime (not to say "legal" Americans don't commit crimes- take the Rubbishclan- please). A country cannot exist w/o a rule of law, and by not safeguarding its borders, language, and culture. If there are jobs Americans don't want, a guest worker program might be the answer. Or changing the immigration laws. Simply ignoring inconvenient laws is not the answer. Look where it got Agri.

Shmarya

>>>Perhaps you ought to disclose the accounting documents, if there are any.Ideally, the fund would publish on the Internet a weekly accounting of funds raised and disbursed, and do the same with a more detailed report every three months.So far (which is about 28 hours) St. Bridget's has been promised by readers well in excess of $5,000.00
I am waiting for a $1000 check from a reader who will be sending it this week.

$436.00 has so far been donated online. Of that, $378.80 is for general Postville relief (St. Bridget's); $57.20 is for specifically kosher food. (This is gross. PayPal and credit card fees have not yet been subtracted.)

TODAY"S UPDATE:

On Monday 11-17 we raised $479 (gross, before PayPal fees).

That means we've raised $915.00 (gross, before PayPal fees) plus checks that are on the way to us or to St. Bridget's that total more than $7,000.

u get what u asked for

Shmary,

there absouletly right-you must be feeling guilt-you caused this catastrophe -i hope your happy with yourself-now youll have to find another jewish company to attack to make you feel better- im not chabad but never seen a more vile angry human being then yourself-
maybe therapy would be better

chickenman

thank you mistaken. This blog is a good place to find info, news and a sad place to see name calling and personal attack. No wonder we are in exile.

the city of Decorah, Iowa (30 miles NW of POstville) has sure come through in helping the people from Palau still in Postville. On Friday many were taken there to stay at the Skate country building south of town. the owner also has a charter bus service and had met some of these people transporting them to Postville weeks ago. some have been moved to a building the covenant church owns in Decorah.

Sadly Mistaken

I was steered to this blog for information on the plight of some fellow human beings. I was greatly discouraged to see the numerous non-human posts. We should all worry for our future when we can spend so much time debating the welfare of those who are suffering by blogging our high and mighty American principals against them. Unless you are applying for those jobs that no American seems to want to do ie, cattle-killer, grape-picker or other coveted $6.00/hour positions, maybe you should re-examine how your bread is buttered. Will you ever sacrifice your home country to work in a foreign land just to take care of your family? Will you sacrifice your privacy to live in a home with 12 other people to make sure the heating bill is paid? Will you step up for a life that is one of a constant state of fear because someone else controls your money, family or well-being due to your "illegal" status?
When did we cash in our humanity? When did we turn so intolerant of each other? Empathy is slowly becoming a lost virtue that our children won't even understand if we continue on this path. We are in more need of help than those who just need a cot or a hot meal. We lost our souls...

Just a Goy

Think of the love we share... have comfort in knowing, we are the THE dysfunctional family!

Yochanan Lavie

"but the place would be less for his participation."

I knew it! Underneath all that hostility was the tension of mutual attraction.

"Little darling, I feel the ice is slowly melting./ Little darling, it feels like years since it's been clear..."

chickenman

plant will reopen later this week, see des Moines Regiter article. but who will be there to do the work? with limited poultry production many of the folks working there may still not have any income under a limited operation.

rebitzman

++For one, I like Arch, even when he is being acerbic.++

Which, as we know - only takes place on days of the week that have vowels.

"Like" overstates my feelings - but the place would be less for his participation.

Yochanan Lavie

I am enjoying the repartee. For one, I like Arch, even when he is being acerbic. I also like many of his opponents. What can I say? Kumbaya, my Lord.

Just a Goy

'Sex or Death?"

Wait! Let me think think about that... uh...!

'now theres the key to survive the frigid temps even shmarya totally overlooked: Shared Bodily Warmth. and i was not refering to cows.'

Sick, dude!!!


mikey

Here is the good news , We are a Chinese company buying the plant, the bad news is we do not need peole to do the work and rely only on robots , we do not need light air or water from postville so the city will get nothing from us no work or fees and then postville and go back to being a disonaurs behind
have fun suckers!!!

thats the "special reserve" stock that is being saved for the rubashkin going away party. if u can find a paluan ho to serve as a belly warmer im sure she will enjoy the silk and 500 thread count cotton sheets in the master bedroom! not to mention the "magic fingers" vibrating mattress. now theres the key to survive the frigid temps even shmarya totally overlooked: Shared Bodily Warmth. and i was not refering to cows. how bout it any rebitzens wanna warm up some freezing frummies? pikuach nefesh, nuu??
anyone got a psak?
Sex or Death?

SR:
i got a new slogan for your fund drive: 'Khalua for Paluah'

lets roast a cow under the stars and
break out the khalua and hoola dancers and do some limbo on the rubashkin lawn
guest appearance by rabbi yaakov weiss who will perform the ancient coming of age initiation rite.

Just a Goy

'come join me brotha we'll split a bottle of jack daniels and shout at those heeb devils together'

I'll take a pass at the dolls (prefer the real thing)! After the Daniels' is gone, make sure there's plenty of Dew and vodka, as well!

Just a Goy

Hillel the Elder - just by invoking his words, you lead us reflection and truth. Amen!

Thank you, once again, rebitzman!

are there any look alikes for sholom rubashkin , he will pay u a "king's ransom" (a controlling interst of shares in Agri)if you can go to jail in his place. any taker's? Bubba wants a cell mate!

rebitzman

++Amen, rebitzman...++

Wasn't me - it was a guy named Hillel

RE:
Well put, cr!!! Thought provoking with a great big smile at the end. I had a great laugh! Thanks!!!

Posted by: Just a Goy | November 17, 2008 at 07:14 PM
-------------------------------------------
sorry to spoil your fun JAG but .. this is no laughing matter ..
I was serious..
-------------------------------------------
stay away from my jacuzzi, - you can have the rubber life size dolls in the BR to yourself though

-------------------------------------------
come join me brotha we'll split a bottle of jack daniels and shout at those heeb devils together


Just a Goy

Amen, rebitzman...

rebitzman

++I believe Archie will see the world clearer, one day. Until then, we know what we must do, and do we must. ++

The uneducated has no aversion to sin; the ignorant is not pious; the timid can not learn, nor the passionate teach; he who is busied with trade can not become wise. In a place where there are no men, study to show thyself a man.

Just a Goy

Well put, cr!!! Thought provoking with a great big smile at the end. I had a great laugh! Thanks!!!

rebitzman

++"Neo-nazis" are not the same thing as "nazis". ++

Perhaps where you live..............

But among rational people - the word "nazi" has one meaning - regardless of prefix.

++and I stand by my characterization.++

And I stand by mine.

++which is that differing opinions should be tolerated.++

Agreed. How does attaching an invective to an opinion accomplish this?

cr

now lets ll calm down a bit, youre ignoring the real issue:
depsite the fact that established jews have been tellin us for millenia we are the chosen people
and the most benefecent , kindhearted, merciful , ad nauseum
we now see that when the chips r down frum jews have to go to of all places
the catholic church!
together with with all those dregs of society they r fond of calling the "mud races"
is it true there's a move on among grassroots jews to storm the rubbishcan
palaces and take possession by eminent domain in accordance with the law of possession being 9/10ths of the law as practiced by the rubbishcrime family for decades?

i get first dibs on the jacuzzi and fully stocked bar!


Just a Goy

And to your point, Jerome - We haven't seemed to learn much of anything, given the Rubashkin lead, as it does not fair well for any of mankind, be you jew or gentile. From my vantage, I see those in the past who were on the receiving end of abuse, simply inflicting the same behavior on another group, today. Inflicting the same disrespect for life upon others, keeping alive the seemingly never ending vicious cycle of abuse and ensuing hatred.

The Rubashkin are the epitome of what is exactly wrong with mankind.

And to Yidandahalf, your point is quite well taken - 'Shmarya is big enough to take the flak.' He is a bigger man, a stronger man, to put up with the slings and arrows that are seeming pointed his way, at almost every moment. I personally would gladly come to his side, to defend, at a moments notice - as he is only trying to lead all of us to richeousness, of the heart and mind - For the betterment of all of mankind.

I believe Archie will see the world clearer, one day. Until then, we know what we must do, and do we must.

Tanya

"cursing"--I thought there was no cursing allowed on this site----------

Tanya

I find myself cracking up while reading comments. Really funny. Its all so sad, what else is there to do but give, cry, laugh, and the idiocy of humankind. Unthinkable. Thank you Shmayra for your courage. Very brave of you.
meanwhile, I find myself laughing, really laughing, at the banter that you all get into. How you call each other names and curse-I thought there was no curing allowed on this site------

chicken dog

ditto to neighbor girl, please end the foul language. SR plese police your BLOG! It sis getting a bit rude.

chicken dog

ditto to neighbor girl, please end the foul language. SR plese police your BLOG! It sis getting a bit rude.

neighbor girl

I am a person with a business connection to Postville. I have been following this website since the May 12 raid. I've relied on this site for up-to-date information. I am sickened by the filthy words and name-calling I've seen in the past weeks. Doesn't anyone screen these posts? Doesn't anyone read the comment rules? Would someone please enforce your warning: ***Violation of these rules may lead to the violator's comments being edited or his future comments being banned.*** The town of Postville is hurting. People are hungry. Parents don't know if they'll get a paycheck. Would all of you please grow up and consider the people of Postville? Let's get back to focusing on the information we need.

Jerome Soller

Rebitzman,
I am not invoking the nazis, but you have done so. "Neo-nazis" are not the same thing as "nazis". When posters on this site presented antisemitic stereotypes that were consistent with literature from the Aryan nations, Stormfront, etc., what would you call them? I guess you could use the term "White Supremacist" if you prefer that term.

The views were broad sweeping stereotypes about all Jews, all Jewish businesses owned by particular kinds of Jews, etc. and I stand by my characterization. You know which posters I am referring to, and I am not the first person to make this statement about those posters (Shmarya himself did).

The bottom line is this is irrelevant to the main point of my note, which is that differing opinions should be tolerated.

Jerome

rebitzman

++neo-nazi posters++

He who invokes the nazis - loses the argument.

Always.

rebitzman

++Why is he being singled out.++

Because he singularly attacks people - not ideas. That's NOT particularly Jewish.

rebitzman

++Since when is there a Jewish way to dealing with spammers.++

The Jewish way is to understand that you don't defeat ideas by suppressing them. Any student of the Talmud learns that pretty quickly in the game.

Jerome Soller

All,
Even though I disagree with many (not all) of Archie's comments, I welcome them. Of course, his positions on Obama were/are, in my opinion, close to the truth :) ! I believe that he presents positions that he sincerely believes, even when many of us disagree with him. This is unlike others that attack Shmarya because they have nothing better to do and do nothing constructive. What is wrong with that!? Are people so insecure about their viewpoints that they can not tolerate differing viewpoints? Why is he being singled out. I will criticize people like UOU. However, the only kind of poster that I will severely criticize and ask to leave would be some of those closet neo-nazi posters that attack the Jewish people and all Jews, Jewish businessmen, etc.

Jerome

ANONY

Not a chance - I find what he says to be disgusting 8 of 10 posts,

Just 8 out of 10.

You are generous.

He's an old fart spammer who doesn't belong here.

Since when is there a Jewish way to dealing with spammers.

The guy is a fucking ingrate and should leave.

yidandahalf

I think Archie should stay right here. Shmarya is big enough to take the flak. Bunker is a brain and his work on the Rubbishcan has been totally insane. Alot of people read FM to read Bunker, a fact many would be loathe to admit.

rebitzman

++Anyone think Bunker should go off to another site and stop insulting the site owner after piling on his crap here?++

Not a chance - I find what he says to be disgusting 8 of 10 posts, but silencing him (or anyone else) is not the Jewish way and is NOT the answer.

Isa

Regarding:
""""Think about this one:
Our silly government shuts down a thriving business which employed X amount of people. ...""""
During the American Civil War the Federal government and its soldiers shut down LOTS of businesses... Called SLAVE PLANTATIONS
This guy was a slaver and deserved what he got

Just a Goy

write not right... oy

Just a Goy

Anyone think Bunker should go off to another site and stop insulting the site owner after piling on his crap here?
Posted by: Anonymous | November 17, 2008 at 10:13 AM


I, for one, am beginning to hear a change of tone, cadence and ideology, at times, from an evolving man. Yes, he does manage to say things, at times, that are quite acrid and hurtful to many of us. Yet, on many occasions, he shows deep compassion while contributing countless amounts of truly enlightening articles... research that is quite helpful to one and all. Don't be so quick to right Archie off...

- Vos lenger ein blinder leybt, dos mehr seht er.

nachman

Think about this one:
Our silly government shuts down a thriving business which employed X amount of people. In turn, those people will now ask for government help....
We all know that these arrogant government officials do not care about the outcome etc. The main thing is that they make headlines.

How sad.

les

There is an emergency hearing going on right now in New York Bankruptcy court.
The whole thing will be over soon.

Un-Orthodox and Unimpressed

Steve,

I'll let Bush know you OK'd it.

Yochanan Lavie

UOU: It was a bad attempt at humor.

steve

I have a feeling Bush may pardon Sholom and Moshe Rubashkin. I have no problem with that as long as they work for another company and stay out of the meat business altogether.

Un-Orthodox and Unimpressed

Steve: Maybe it's roshei teivot for "Then Go Fuck Off!"

Posted by: Yochanan Lavie | November 17, 2008 at 10:03 AM

Come on, Yo. You are creative enough that you don't need to get into the gutter to make a point.

Leave the out-of-controlblind hatred and blinding anger gig to TGFO.

He doesn't do parody and you shold respect his 'turf' in return.

chicken dog

it would be chapter 11 to 7. with all the alleged (being fair) charges and the past lack of credible change at agri; this makes sense. I worked for a company that went through a bannkruptcy chapter 11. It was a hard time. we did not have criminal and government issues and it still took months to get a new owner and years to get the estate resolved. If these guys can not even pay current employee wages then it is in courts interest to take control and appoint an overseer.

There are rumors of new investors, under Chapter 7 they would deal with the judge and not the Rubashkins.
Perhaps the new brand can be AARONS BUST!

I sent money to help and everyone here should too. this is a tragedy and at times a commedy of the Goniffs went Glatt. All said folks are hurting in Allamakee land.

Anonymous

Anyone think Bunker should go off to another site and stop insulting the site owner after piling on his crap here?

Yochanan Lavie

Steve: Maybe it's roshei teivot for "Then Go Fuck Off!"

Un-Orthodox and Unimpressed

The Great Failed One

steve

TGFO

Thank G-d February is Over or Thank G-d For Olives?

Shmarya

I don't know if you've seen this, but the government has asked the bankruptcy court to appoint a trustee or to convert the case from Chapter 7 to Chapter 11. The thrust of the motion is that in light of the criminal allegations against the company and management, and the close relationship between the new CEO and the Rubashkins, Agriprocessors can't be trusted to act as debtor-in-possession.

I have not seen it! Do you have a link?

Do you mean Chapter 11 to Chapter 7 or the way you wrote it?

Un-Orthodox and Unimpressed

UOU, it is more difficult to create than destroy. While you criticize Shmarya for trying to do something positive with respect to charity, he is doing something concrete NOW! What are you doing!? It is ludicrous to think that Shmarya brought down Agriprocessors. Their most senior management, exercising their free will, created the possibility of their downfall and ultimately Hashem is responsible for what has happened.

Best wishes,

Jerome Soller

Posted by: Jerome Soller | November 17, 2008 at 01:28 AM

God???!!!! You guys are just as bad if not worse than the Haraidim who hide behind God.

Exactly which God do you think you are pinning this on? TGFO has appointed and annointed himself as the final word on which rabbis are good and which are bad. The only litmus test is whether or not they live up to TGFO's self-serving standards. Anyone who disagrees with TGFO is Satan himself! As Rabbi Heschel Ob'm taught, a man who worships God only as he understands Him worships himself and his own intelect (or, in the case of TGFO, lack thereof).

sage

It would be very nice if the OU contributed something.

But it would be just as nice if the OU made a public statement that its lack of oversite/enforcement has led to this horrible situation.

Un-Orthodox and Unimpressed

HEY!!!! All of you assholes have got so much to say.... Blah... Blahh... Blahhhhh!!!

With the exception of Shmarya who actually had the chutzpah to take on these asshole Rubashkin mamzer sumbags, your yelping and posturing is nothing but a bunch of armchair quarterback bullshit. All of you, please... GO FUCK YOURSELVES!!!!!

You ALL shout from the your computer keyboards and vomit your self righteouness at the same time the majority of you are masturbating to kiddie porn on the internet.

I think I am going to vomit!!!

Posted by: Shimon | November 17, 2008 at 01:27 AM

You just did.

Ted

I don't know if you've seen this, but the government has asked the bankruptcy court to appoint a trustee or to convert the case from Chapter 7 to Chapter 11. The thrust of the motion is that in light of the criminal allegations against the company and management, and the close relationship between the new CEO and the Rubashkins, Agriprocessors can't be trusted to act as debtor-in-possession.

Shmarya

That's being done.

hk

Can we petition the OU to help out as well?

Anderson

Rebitzman:

You object to the statement:

++Demand accountability from Jews.++

And ask instead: Can we use a brush that isn't QUITE so broad, please?

I'd prefer an even broader brush: Demand accountability from EVERYONE.

There's no use in playing make-believe, or encouraging it. If Shmarya's work proves anything, it's the danger of persisting in make-believe when it covers up illegal, irresponsible, and immoral actions.

Yochanan Lavie

You mean that pointing out that tearing down othes is easier than actually building anything yourself is twisted logic?

Posted by: Un-Orthodox and Unimpressed | November 16, 2008 at 01:24 PM

No, but blaming Shmarya for reporting on bad conditions is. The consequences are not his fault; the perps are responsible for the consequences of their actions.

Building something? Like a charity to help Jews and non-Jews in P'ville? Shmarya did that. If he didn't, he'd be blamed for NOT doing something by the same people who blame him for doing something.
That's twisted logic.

Tearing people down? Like insulting Shmarya and every poster who defends him w/o offering solutions yourself? You accuse Shmarya and myself of the same sin you commit. You bring nothing new to the table except how unimpressed you are. We get it. Time to sing a new tune. Maybe not twisted logic- just boring.

Anon

Perhaps most people within a 2 hours drive of NYC that I speak to have an idea who Shmarya is, among modern orthodox & yeshiva circles.

Most people don't know.

Most people don't care.

But what puzzles me is the amount of time
you Mr. Bunker spend on this site.

It's hours every day.

Don't you have a life?

You spend hours researching every time a Rubashkin takes a dump.

You dig up shmutz on them non-stop.

Now you turn around and blame Shmarya.

WTF is wrong with you?

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