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November 20, 2008

Postville's Shame: Man Who Reports Threats Against Jews Attacked

And, I'm sorry to say, this is also Chabad's…

… shame, as well.

I worked for many years in the Jewish community on a national level. I have some experience evaluating and dealing with threats against Jewish targets.

No one has any way to know with certainty whether the threats reported this morning will be acted on, on whether these crimes will be committed.

But I can say with certainty the report itself is credible.

The proper way to react to this type of report is to take every precaution possible.

Unfortunately, the Jewish community of Postville is doing the opposite. They are attacking a man, Jeff Abbas, who as soon as he heard threats, recorded the information and then called Jewish community leaders to warn them.

He did not broadcast the interview, even though he could have, because he did not want to cause panic.

I know the State of Iowa is taking the reported threats very seriously – even if Jewish community leaders like Aaron Goldsmith are not.

Abbas has played a major role in diffusing tensions. He has fed hundreds of people. He played a major role in getting the Jewish community emergency kosher food supplies.

But Abbas has also reported the very real problems of Agriprocessors, and Goldsmith – a Rubashkin crony – and other Jewish community leaders resent him for that.

So they attack Abbas for doing something that may have saved their lives.

It's a company town, and no good deed – even hundreds of them – goes unpunished.

Threat aired against Jewish community in Postville
By Orlan Love

POSTVILLE — Police here are taking seriously an indirect threat against the Jewish community broadcast and posted Thursday on failedmessiah.com, a Web site covering Orthodox Judaism that is focused intently on recent problems at struggling kosher meatpack Agriprocessors.

A disgruntled former Agriprocessors worker, who is not identified by name, told KPVL station manager Jeff Abbas he has heard other disgruntled Agricprocessors workers discussing robbing Postville businesses if "they don't get the money they work for."

The anonymous worker says he has also heard discussion of kidnapping children of Sholom Rubashkin, the former CEO of the troubled kosher meatpacking plant. "Who they really want is the man running Agriprocessors," who is believed to have money inside his Postville home, the man said.

Abbas said he did not broadcast the interview on his radio station but sent it to failedmessiah.com and played it for local law enforcement agencies.

The failedmessiah.com Web site advised Postville's Jewish schools to evacuate immediately and urged members of the Rubashkin family to take precautions.

"This is like yelling 'fire' in a crowded theater. It goes way beyond free speech," said Aaron Goldsmith, a former Postville City Council member and a leader of Postville's Jewish community. "It's absolutely irresponsible. They're taking some guy's venting and turning it into widespread public panic."

Officer Mitch Seitz said the Postville Police Department is taking the threats seriously and has stepped up patrols in response.

Seitz said Jewish schools are operating normally, and there is no credible evidence anyone is in danger.

Asked his opinion of the KPVL broadcast, Seitz said, "We can't tell radio stations what to say or what not to say."

Seitz said police know the identity of the unnamed man on the broadcast but have no intention to interview him, "because he has committed no crime."

Father Lloyd Ouderkirk, a retired pastor at St. Bridget's Catholic Church in Postville, praised Abbas for going public with the interview.

"It's real; it's reflecting a reality of human pain and trauma caused by continual mistreatment of workers at the Agriprocessors plant," Ouderkirk said.

The Agriprocessors plant, which managers said might resume production today, did not, and employees at the now-shuttered plant were not paid, as they had hoped.

Audio.

Comments

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Such threats ought to be reported to the police, not the media or blogs. Advising people to evacuate is denying that we live in a law abiding community, and is akin to shouting fire in a crowede theater. Contacting the law enforcement authorities is the proper thing to do. READ IT CAREFULLY, LAW ENFORCEMENT. These are the people who enforce the laws and protect and serve the community members, the Jews too.

The identity of the person making the threats should be made known to everyone so they can call the police if they see him lurking around. The identity of this person who is calling for people to violate the law should be called in for questioning by the law enforcement members and they can assess if the threat is credible. There is no reason to hide his identity, he has made a threat and needs to pay the price for that.

Such threats ought to be reported to the police, not the media or blogs.

They were. And the Jewish community was notified, as well.

Alvin - This man was not making the threats - he was warning us on his way out of town.

How does one go about reporting to the Jewish community? Who was told and when? Were they told by the authorities to evacuate? No, they weren't. It was you, I accuse you of trying to foment and create more hostility and angst. The civic duty and moral thing was done when the authorities got the information. Were the law enforcement members told the identity of the person making the threats?

Has this man been taking in for questioning so they law enforcment officials can find out who made the threats that this guy reported?

How does one go about reporting to the Jewish community? Who was told and when? Were they told by the authorities to evacuate? No, they weren't. It was you, I accuse you of trying to foment and create more hostility and angst

Jewish community leaders were called, and they called members of the community and warned them.

As for evacuating the school, if you would read what I wrote, you'd see I already had a report that this was being done. But if it was not, until police protection could be put in place, evacuation was the correct thing to do.

As far as I'm concerned, Goldsmith is as much to blame about the current state of affairs as is Agri's management. Any time in past years when anyone tried to speak out against injustice at Agri, he would attempt to silence them by claiming antisemitism. As written, Goldsmith has been a Rubashkin shill from the moment he walked into the public scene as a council member.

Thanks for releasing the audio, Jeff. Everyone deserves to know things like this.

If something awful were to have happened and people learned Mr. Abbas has information he did not share, he would be roundly criticized. I'm sure Mr. Abbas did the best he could under the circumstances.

Since the Police are reading this blog:

I believe that it's abundantly clear that Shmarya Rosenberg should be arrested for his role in the INCITEMENT TO RIOT.

Abas did not broadcast the audio and Shmarya Rosenberg did.

What Shmarya Rosenberg is doing is not unlike when AlQuida releases a hate filled audio or video threat, which serves as a signal to Islamics and AlQuida sleeper cells to incite hate and to lead to criminal activity and acts of violence.

Shmarya Rosenberg has absolutely nothing to do with himself all day and all night except to incite RACIAL HATRED against Religious Jews, who he disapproves of.

Every word on Shmaraya Rosenberg's blog is filled with Racial Hatred against the Religious Jews in Postvile and in other places.

This Link proves the point that it is Shmarya who is behind all the hatred and arousing the attempted racial violence:

Shmarya is what Jews call despicably an "INFORMANT" who's only purpose in Rosenberg's miserable pathetic life is to incite non-Jews to Racial Violence against Jews.

http://iowaindependent.com/8753/as-postville-implodes-hostility-to-rubashkin-grows

Alvin:
Read the previous post about 20-30 former workers (ex-cons brought to Postville by Rubashkin's "manpower" company to fill the slots left vacant by the arrested Guatemalans) standing outside the makeshift food kitchen set-up by Abbas and shouting for their paychecks. Some of these guys, hired by the "trusted" temp agnecy, were drunk. This was step 1.
Next came the very real report of threats in this mornings interview. That was step 2.
Do you really want to wait for step 3 before taking action???
The problem is Aaron Goldsmith's "shta, shtil" position puts the community in danger. I can assure you all proper authorities took the threats quite seriously - much more seriously then Aaron Goldsmith.
Trying to sweep such matters under the rug, just like the frum community has done with child molestation, doesn't help anyone.

SRSBA:

Just as you have the freedom to practice your religion (worshipping a false messiah), Shmarya has the right to look out for and protect the underdog here, something the Jewish community in Postville sadly has not done.

Please spare us your "Racial Violence against Jews" please. The employees of the company could care less that you or the owners are Jewish. They have every right to collect their wages from a fraudelent and corrupt company. Your entry is full of "RACIAL HATRED towards Non-Religious Jews and Non-Jews alike".

So, what's your point?

A curious observer

curious observer,

The point is that this is a matter of Law, right now.

Right now, it is 100% against the Law, for Rubashkin to pay these workers.

So the gripes of these potential criminals is that they now want Rubashkin to violate the law, so that they should get paid and the person paying them will get arrested again, for being in violation of law.

It is simply illegal for Rubashkin or anyone else at Agri to pay these workers because it's up to the sole jurisdiction of the court appointed trustee and they must also abide by the law which says that past due, owed to workers, shall not be paid, not before the banks secured loans, are paid first at which point there will be no money left to pay anyone else.

If Shmaraya Rosenberg is suggesting that Agri or Rubashkin pay these workers, then Shmarya Rosenberg should be arrested for this alone, for his role in inciting people to break the law by illegally paying these x-workers.

It's real; it's reflecting a reality of human pain and trauma caused by continual mistreatment of workers at the Agriprocessors plant," Ouderkirk said.

In other words its ok to kidnap people, rob business or attack other people because we didnt got paid?

Father Ouderkirk, sounds the same as the people justifying terrorist attacks in the middle east or other countries , blaming the inocents for the killing by terrorist

this is so sad. its not the jews of postville fault! there in the same boat and its even harder for them. people are so quick to point blame and when they find out that its not the people they blame they just get mad. if you want to blame any one blame the slow prossess of the court system. goverment is always slow. look at the hurricain folks. there still hurting, and look at how slow they got help. still! if they use that energy to help each other rather than try to start riots and plan to rob innisent jews, all agri employees whould be better off.

Father Ouderkirk was referring to the frustration felt by workers and was not a justification for kidnapping, robbery or attacking other people.
Taking people's words out of context is a practice of despots. Please do not insult the intelligence of the people who read this blog with such high school debate antics.

The People reading this blog encounter only negative posts by shmarya.

He spend all day and all night digging dirt and painting a totaly distorting the jewish orthodox chabad way of life.

I agree , we are not perfect but after reading this site people. are really wondering if the jews have long noses and horns !!

This his not how we leave or behave !!

Did people know that the jewish communitie in postville cooks for a new mother and their entire family 3 meals every day for 2 weeks !
We watch their kids till their mother feels strong again!

We help people who are in need of medical treatment,
We have a 24 hour a day OTC medication if you run out,
Chairs and tables are loan out for free if you need,
free use of food utensils,
Baby cribs
Food for shaboos and yom tov
( Matza , wine , meat etc )

Biggers cities have many other services

Hatzala ( volunter ambulance and firs reponders ,
We use our their own top of the line ambulances
And top of the line equitmant.

Zaka ( search and recovery services all over the world )

Soup kitchens serving every day 3 meals to any one who wants to eat !

And many many more services.
And all this is done with any publicity are with out especting any thing in return

(We don't destroy a community and the send food and we make shure the pictures are all over the news !!)

The problem is that peole only read waht shmarya wants you to read,

Just like I post before, shmarya rosemberg reject any thing or any one who dosnt agree with is sick twisted mind!
Jeff I thing you are a nice guy and u r trying to do good

So I'm asking you JEFF ABBAS.

How you can patronize this hateful site !!

If you don't agree with shmarya stop posting here!!

Otherwise you are guilty by association !!!

Are you willing to use the KKK or any other white extremist site ? Even if the have any truth ?

SHMARYA SCOTT ROZENBESRG IS THE KKK OF THE ORTHODOX COMMUNITY !!!

What the heck is wrong with Officer Seitz?

The guy speaking on KPLV, if telling the truth, has information about a criminal conspiracy.

What kind of "law enforcement" wouldn't want to interview him?

To state of disgust:

" Taking people's words out of context is a practice of despots. Please do not insult the intelligence of the people who read this blog with such high school debate antics."

" And, I'm sorry to say, this is also Chabad's…

… shame, as well. "

( Post by shmarya )

I see an intent to associate all chabad. To postville !!

Like I have been trying to explain people on this blog what the trugh agenda of shmarya is!
But I guess some people are like you, and only read and understend what they want the trough to be

So go back to high school and learn how to read !!

Alvin,

Why are you so angry?

In the interview...

You heard something, I didn't?

You read something, I didn't?

Understand, no one is perfect. Some of us are evil.

Shmarya is a good man. Why? Because he brings to our attention our failings and misdeeds.


Every one of you, ask yourself this - are all those who observe Orthodox Judaism (or any other theological belief), perfect? Are there some bad people who are jews? Are there some good people who are jews? Are all people who are jews, good people? Or is it OJs are always good people no matter what they do?

Is racism and theological persecution practiced by some OJs? Were people abused by the OJs at Agri? Yes.

FACT: OJs should've spoken up when they saw or heard of abuses at Agri AND refused to participate. Do you think G-d will perceive them as innocent, or guilty by association? They were not only violating G-ds law, they were violating man's law, as well. And all of this, all of this could have been avoided if it weren't for greed AND racism.

And yes, this happens to be the prevailing views gentiles who are uniformed, that what is exactly taking place in the OJ community at Agri is the stereo typical jewish behavior they've learned. Is it any wonder, gentile racists in their own right, react by stereo typing observant OJs, as well as modern and reformed, when they see such behavior, from the so-called elitists of the faith? Especially, when its true, in OJs Agri's case?

Understand, the entire Nation is watching, the world is watching - Jew and gentile. Now comprehend the SHAME derived through these misdeeds these people have brought upon their own people.

So agin, you wonder why Jews are stereo typed...?

OJs are the first to cry anti-semitism when they perceive what they deem, injustice. But what do you call it when OJs perpetrate misdeeds upon gentiles? Is there a word to describe such behavior? And why does such behavior happen in the first place? Could it be, OJs at Agri feel they are superior human beings to their subhuman counterparts? Sounds reminiscent of what Hitler used to justify, doesn't it (rebitzman, please forgive me - I know how you feel)?

Indeed, you are G-d's chosen people, but does that mean G-d doesn't love me, or does the love me, too? Am I not too, created in HIS image or am I just a freak, in thine eyes?


Indentured servitude...

What ever you what to call it, it's there at Agri - Modern Slavery. Lies and ploys - saying one thing and doing another. Cheating people out of their miniscule wages, after they were promised FREE transportation and FREE housing. How much more pathetic can one get?!!

Is it not a sin to cheat, lie or steal? Or is it NOT lying, cheating or steeling when an OJ does it to a gentile? Which way is it? Does G-d differentiate?

Roles can be reversed - the abused become the abuser. It's a vicious cycle mankind can't seem to shake.

So in the end, instead of OJs being persecuted, they are the one's persecuting the gentiles.

What do YOU think G-d thinks about all of this? What justification is there for such behavior? Will He turn a blind eye? I think NOT!

So I ask you, why all the hostility? Is it possible the OJ community in Postville brought all this and more upon themselves? Yes.

Let me say, I am in no way justifying what was said, from the interview, but I can in some ways rationalize the thought process. It is a wrong perception and unjust. But there could be a simple way to address all of this - ask the certifying rabbinical community to right the wrong. They condoned such behaviors. Have them help BOTH jew and gentile. End the perceived racism. I believe it would be a first step. After all, it's time OJs acted like Americans, and not only respected their fellow citizen of the US, but of the of the world. Otherwise, why are you here, and not in Israel? Live here and live by the G-ds law, and man's law.

So I ask YOU, why are YOU are attacking Shmarya?

What did YOU do to stop all of this?

"It's real; it's reflecting a reality of human pain and trauma caused by continual mistreatment of workers at the Agriprocessors plant," Ouderkirk said.

Let's give Father Ouderkirk the benefit of the doubt and believe that he didn't mean any harm by his statement. But he may want to remember to include the word "alleged" in his future comments pertaining to Agriprocessors.

Also, I am perplexed as to why Mr. Abbas "did not broadcast the interview, even though he could have, because he did not want to cause panic", yet 3 1/2 hours later the full audio was posted on this site. I am also trying to understand his closing remark to the interviewee: "Go now, while you can." What is that supposed to mean? I am having a little bit of a harder time giving Mr. Abbas the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he can shed some light on his actions and words?

Also, yesterday the following was reported on this site:

BREAKING! Angry Mob Of Agriprocessors Workers Protest Outside Multicultural Center

An eyewitness said it was 4 or 5 people.

Please excuse the typos - I'm tired, worried, disappointed, and believe it or not, speechless at this point.

Let us all fix this thing, together - please.

From KCRGM.COM

Just look how the police responded to a 10 year old girl " hit list "

And how the police in postville reacted when they have Threats Against Jews


( And how the feds rected to some one,
That may be saw a meth lab and weapons in agri )


November 20, 2008 News MIDWEST: Wisconsin Girl in Trouble for 'Hit List' By Becky Ogann


KENOSHA, Wis. (AP) - A 10-year-old Kenosha girl says she didn't mean any harm, but she's in trouble anyway for drafting a so-called "killing spree hit list."
A police report said officers were called to McKinley Middle School Monday after a teacher caught the girl passing a note and found it listed 25 people, including the teacher, who "were going to be killed or maybe killed."
The back listed others who would not be hurt.
Police said the girl told them she was upset at students who accused her of spreading rumors or were mean to her, and at the teacher for sending her out of the classroom when she talked.
But she didn't have any plan for her list, although she knew it could scare people.
She was suspended until school officials review the incident and was referred to juvenile court .

Also, I am perplexed as to why Mr. Abbas "did not broadcast the interview, even though he could have, because he did not want to cause panic", yet 3 1/2 hours later the full audio was posted on this site. I am also trying to understand his closing remark to the interviewee: "Go now, while you can." What is that supposed to mean? I am having a little bit of a harder time giving Mr. Abbas the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he can shed some light on his actions and words?

Please.

Abbas called police and government played the tape for them. He called local Jewish leaders and played the tape for them. He warned those in immediate danger immediately.

He did not the man to go while he can because the man was fleeing after committing a crime. He told him to leave before things got worse, before the workers with guns went after him for snitching.

Also, yesterday the following was reported on this site:

BREAKING! Angry Mob Of Agriprocessors Workers Protest Outside Multicultural Center

An eyewitness said it was 4 or 5 people.

Have your eyewitness contact me.

I heard 2 to 3 dozen from people – all of them eyewitnesses. Perhaps your eyewitness can give us a more rounded picture of what happened.

Shmarya

You are a sick person.
Get some help
Go to the doctor

Blogin all day long 24/7 against chabad.

Just because u didn't got the response u wanted from the lubavitcher rabbi.
You are doing so much damage in this blog.
Have mercy on your soul.

You are a faild messenger
You are a pathetic , hypocrite
Sone israel, moser & loser

I tell you the truth.
Some one so obsess with 1 or 2
Thing like you been so obsess with child molestation and chabad, brings me to the maskana of you 1: must have a big lust for small boys.
2: Ihave doubt if you are a jew at all.

Wow. I lived in Postville 20 years ago, just when Agri came to town. I've been following all the news and this blog closely for about the past week. The long post by Just a Goy is the most reasonable thing I've read about this whole mess.

Wow. I lived in Postville 20 years ago, just when Agri came to town. I've been following all the news and this blog closely for about the past week. The long post by Just a Goy is the most reasonable thing I've read about this whole mess.

Wow. I lived in Postville 20 years ago, just when Agri came to town. I've been following all the news and this blog closely for about the past week. The long post by Just a Goy is the most reasonable thing I've read about this whole mess.

Lobbying4Peace - Good questions. Let me try to shed some light.

At 6:40 this morning the gentleman in the audio came into my studio to catch his pre-arranged ride to Waterloo. The ride was set up with a volunteer (using her own gas, I believe) the night before. In many cases, these ride arrangements have been hit and miss, and she happened to be in the studio while the gentleman was with me. My statement "Go now, while you can" simply meant that he should go, because his ride was there and waiting. There was no dark, foreboding element to the statement.

As to why I didn't broadcast the interview but sent it here 3 1/2 hours later - the answer is in the 3 1/2 hour wait. Once I had conferred with Mitch from our local PD, the Mayor, the Allamakee County Sheriff, a couple of friends (one Jewish and one not) and Ralph Rosenberg, I was left with the consensus that the majority of those people who heard it agreed that it was a credible threat. From that point, I took no further action as to the dissemination of the information I had, relying instead on the phone calls made by the people I had spoken with to get the word out to anyone they felt necessary. (I do not know who called who, but I do know the information spread very quickly.)

Some 3 hours later and after playing and re-playing the audio for people coming by the station who wanted to hear it, I decided the best way to make it available without going on the air was to send it here.

Finally, as to the eyewitness you spoke of who saw last night's crowd, please ask your witness the words I spoke to disperse the crowd before before Mr. Brook arrived. It was a short statement, loud and clear and could have been heard well up or down any of the side streets. I have included my email address for your private reply.

If this whole thing wouldn't have happened, I would likely feel much better tonight. It has not been an easy day. Rest assured, if I ever find myself in the same position, I will not do a thing differently. Sometimes the hard choice is the only choice.

KPVLRadio@KPVLRadio.com

I apologize for the triple-post. I'm traveling on business and the wireless at this hotel leaves something to be desired. I hope Postville is able to recover from this. I am deeply saddened that what could have been an example of rich cultural diversity (and tolerance of such) in a tiny midwest town, has turned into something so ugly.

Getzel Rubashkin has a dangerous mind. Horrible, you are interested ONLY in yourself and your own. Your writings reek from danger. Please keep your thoughts to yourself and your own chabadniks and stay off this blog.

Tanya,
Out of respect for Getzel, whether I agree with him or not, I am making this post. "getzel rubashkin ( not )" is NOT Getzel Rubashkin. The really Getzel Rubashkin can actually spell. "getzel rubashkin ( not )" has what seems to be equivalent to a second or third grade education, at least based on his/her level of spelling and grammar.

Jerome

Sorry, in the last post, I meant "real," not "really."

[getzel rubashkin ( not ) posting from my jewberry]:

[Taking people's words out of context is a practice of despots. Please do not insult the intelligence of the people who read this blog with such high school debate antics.

Posted by: state of disgust]

Thank you [state of disgust].

I could not have expressed it better.

[SHMARYA SCOTT ROZENBESRG IS THE KKK OF THE ORTHODOX COMMUNITY !!!--getzel rubashkin ( not ) posting from my jewberry]

getzel rubashkin ( not ) posting from my jewberry]:

Do you honestly believe people think what you post is credible when you post a statement such as this.

[So go back to high school and learn how to read !!
Posted by: getzel rubashkin ( not ) posting from my jewberry]

--Getzel Rubashkin (not) . . .:
Go back to high school and learn how to WRITE.

Shamarya,
You didn't answer the question as to why Mr. Abbas chose to send YOU the audio of his interview, for all the world to hear, even though he supposedly did not want to cause panic to the community.

Perhaps, just maybe, rather than encouraging the informant to "Go now, while you can", he should have escorted him to the station so he could be properly questioned by the POLICE? And if Mr. Abbas wasn't able to escort him the full four blocks down the road to the police station, there is always 911.

But anyway, I'm sure the Rubashkin family thanks Mr. Abbas profusely for the personal phone call he made to warn them of the threat right away. He didn't wait to contact them, did he? He DID contact the Rubashkins, didn't he? You said: "He warned those in immediate danger immediately." You call MORE THAN 2 HOURS LATER AN IMMEDIATE RESPONSE? Have you been associating with FEMA? AND IT WASN'T EVEN THE RUBASHKINS HE CONTACTED! Guess he was too busy preparing to send you the audio.

But maybe Mr. Abbas has a very good reason for waiting. And for waiting an hour to contact the authorities as well.

By the way, this whole thing happened at least two hours before school started. If you and he were so concerned that the warning get out there that school be "evacuated" immediately (love the choice of words...you wouldn't have wanted to say "dismissed", that might have caused less panic for the community that you both were so concerned about keeping calm) then you might have discussed getting the lead out of your feet and contacting the "leaders" BEFORE SCHOOL BEGAN.

My eyewitness declines your offer. She stands by her statement.

Mr. Abbas,
Thank you for your response. I regret that I didn't refresh my page previously and see it until after I made my post. However, I would appreciate it if you would please read it carefully and address the issues presented. I have a lot of unanswered questions.

Maybe next time, Jeff will hold the tape for his 6 pm news broadcast.

The man called everyone in law enforcement and in government that he could.

He – not you, not Aaron Goldsmith – is responsible for getting in extra police.

Why release the tape?

I'll let Jeff answer that for himself.

But I'll tell you this: releasing that tape and the media attention it garnered did more to protect your community than you realize.

When the tape was released, there still was not any extra police protection, and police had NOT, to the best of my knowledge, warned the Chabad community or the Postville business community.

It was still wholly unclear what, if anything, Postville's police and government would do.

You fault Abbas for using my site to warn people. You fault Abbas for his actions.

But what you do not do is fault the town's police and government, which did not properly react.

And you do not fault people like Aaron Goldsmith, who went out of his way, it seems, to do the wrong thing.

This speaks volumes about your intentions and your grasp of the situation.

By the way, this whole thing happened at least two hours before school started. If you and he were so concerned that the warning get out there that school be "evacuated" immediately (love the choice of words...you wouldn't have wanted to say "dismissed", that might have caused less panic for the community that you both were so concerned about keeping calm) then you might have discussed getting the lead out of your feet and contacting the "leaders" BEFORE SCHOOL BEGAN.

You need to ask why the police did not do this.

I'll also tell you something that should worry you.

I spoke with Postville ambulance service late this morning. It was an error. I dialed the wrong number.

But I took advantage of the situation to ask if it had been told to be extra vigilant, or to prepare for possible violence.

The ambulance service had not been told anything.

I told them what had taken place.

That call was made several hours after police and city government were made aware of the threat.

Direct your anger to where it belongs and leave Jeff Abbas, who only tried to help you, alone.

I may don't know to spell
I may don't have any education
One thing for shure, I can see shmarya rosenmberg trouth agenda !
Jeff abbas and all others don't want to face the reality
Of this blog.

Try to open a new blog with out shmarya
Ablog were we can stop fighting each other, ablog we can use to spread love to each other religion.
A blog to help the people in need.

With out shmarya and is agenda

If you try I'm shure shmarya will turn againts every one of us.

This is the way shmarya works.
I can see is agenda with out any education, should be no problem for Curious Postville Native

If you fail to see what shmarya is trying to do, you need to go the west union hospital and see the emergency doctor on call

Shmarya you are an angel!

You care about the jewish chabad community ??

You care about the jewish and no jewish of postville ?

Jeff abbas cares about us,
The only thing he dosnt understend is your agenda and the poison you are spreading all over the USA with this blog!

He should stop posting in this blog !!

He should open a new blog with out giving you a plataform for your twisted sick mind.

Please take your medication.

its beautiful

for centuries the heebsters have been sayin hogoneiv min haganav potur

well ...
now the shoes on the other foot.

"I worked for many years in the Jewish community on a national level. I have some experience evaluating and dealing with threats against Jewish targets." Scott, what fantasy world are you living in? I think you ought to share the list of places you worked and describe your experience and why you were dismissed from each place and have no job at present. Where are your letters of recommendation from these community positions that you held? You have inserted yourself in this story and are a valid point of discussion. Come clean and lay it on the line.

Shmarya,
I am not angry. Really. I think you are annoyed because you know I am right. Yes, the authorities were contacted. But time was wasted. Mr. Abbas clearly has connections. He certainly could have found that man another ride out of town after he made sure he was questioned properly by the authorities. But he apparently doesn't feel he erred. It blows my mind, but he is entitled to his opinion. The facts are the facts, though. He waited an hour to call authorities. He waited even longer to notify the "leaders" of the community.

"When the tape was released, there still was not any extra police protection, and police had NOT, to the best of my knowledge, warned the Chabad community or the Postville business community." --

Nothing could be further from the truth. The Postville Police Department, Officer Seitz, and the Chief of Police were in constant contact with the "leaders" of the community today.

Just curious, who told you the school was evacuating? Might want to get a better informant.


Scott, what fantasy world are you living in? I think you ought to share the list of places you worked and describe your experience and why you were dismissed from each place and have no job at present.

American chairman of the World Union of Jewish Students. North American Representative to WUJS-Jerusalem and the Israeli government. Member, North American Governing Board, World Union of Jewish Students.

After this I worked for Chabad in Philadelphia (briefly) and then for Chabad and for Heritage House in Jerusalem.


The facts are the facts, though. He waited an hour to call authorities. He waited even longer to notify the "leaders" of the community.

Please.

I'll let Jeff answer this accusation. But I will again state that he did more for you than ungrateful people like you will ever understand.

The Postville Police Department, Officer Seitz, and the Chief of Police were in constant contact with the "leaders" of the community today.

There were no extra police cars and no cars from the sheriff or state police until after the tape was released.

Just curious, who told you the school was evacuating? Might want to get a better informant.

Some parents took their children home. I was initially told all were doing this. That was wrong.

Now, direct your accusations to the mayor and the local police – who knew about the threat long before your community did.

"Some parents took their children home. I was initially told all were doing this. That was wrong."--

again, might want to be better informed before posting misinformation. ONE parent took her children home.

I see you still find it difficult to direct your focus to the police and mayor.

After all, they knew about the threat very early but they did not react in the correct way.

When you're done with that, do the same for Goldsmith.

"There were no extra police cars and no cars from the sheriff or state police until after the tape was released." --

released to who? to you? Outside help was dispatched first thing, before that audio tape was put on your website. Maybe your informant didn't see any extra cars because they were unmarked? Or maybe they had a little lead in their feet this morning, too. But I know for a fact that outside help was dispatched BEFORE you posted the audio.

I know for a fact that outside help was dispatched BEFORE you posted the audio.

So, you resort to these clever lies, do you?

Here is what I actually wrote:When the tape was released, there still was not any extra police protection…You see, there is a difference between "dispatched" and present on the ground.

Your mayor and police chief waited a very long time before asking for help.

Your school should have been evacuated – unless the police were providing adequate stepped up protection. But for the first couple hours of school, they were not.

"I see you still find it difficult to direct your focus to the police and mayor."--

I have no beef with our police department. They did their job without inciting panic in the community. Their presence was felt and seen. They were professional. YOU on the other hand, thrive on attention and sensationalism and will not be happy until pure panic hits every home, Gentile or Jew.

Perhaps I was unclear. I was not trying to "resort to clever lies". Police protection was at the school first thing in the morning. OUTSIDE HELP was dispatched to beef up security of the entire town, before the audio was posted on your site. Sorry if I previously was unclear.

lobbying4peace -

Would we be having this same discussion if someone had actually gotten hurt this morning?

Would that have validated my actions enough for you?

We will never know what didn't happen. Let's just hope that because of the actions of MANY individuals this morning, maybe, just maybe we did stop something bad from happening.

Try to see the good in it instead of so viciously attacking it from every side.

When are you claiming police arrived at the school?

American chairman of the World Union of Jewish Students. North American Representative to WUJS-Jerusalem and the Israeli government. Member, North American Governing Board, World Union of Jewish Students.

After this I worked for Chabad in Philadelphia (briefly) and then for Chabad and for Heritage House in Jerusalem.

You work for all this people
And now you are blogin 24/7
47 years old
Living in your mother home And no job?

They fire you ?

Or you stop working with them because they didint want to do your way?

You are the bigest looser
I ever saw!

How they work with you ? They dinnt see your twisted maind ?


Mr. Abbas:

"Would we be having this same discussion if someone had actually gotten hurt this morning? Would that have validated my actions enough for you?"--

Simplified, there are two major choices you made today regarding this issue:

#1. You waited to contact the authorities.

#2. You sent the audio to be posted on this website.

The first issue speaks for itself and you still have not answered it. And the second issue poses the question of why you didn't alert the real media. What was your point in sending it to Shmarya? Why not do a press release? Why just put it on this guy's website? I have spoken to a lot of people today that didn't even know this website existed...not to mention that the jewish community, for the most part, does not patronize this website, or the internet at all. Were you seriously trying to alert the citizens of Postville by blogging it? Do you really think that you saved the day BY BLOGGING IT? REALLY? Did you send the audio to any news stations before you sent it to Shmarya?

So, to answer your question, thankfully no one got hurt today. But I don't think you made the sharpest decision to blog it and assume that all the right people would hear it. And, I don't think the police department was the one dropping the ball today.

"Try to see the good in it instead of so viciously attacking it from every side."

Maybe it's just me, but no, I don't see the good in how you handled yourself today, Mr. Abbas. Could it be that you have an agenda? Your answers are making it harder and harder for me to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Shmarya,
If you want the EXACT minute they arrived, I can not be that precise, but they were there at 8:45 and I understand they had already been there for a while by then.

hey getzel! if its acctually you, when we getting paid and going back to work!? this site is driving me crazy, but its really the only thing covering the plant right now. let me know something ok? im one bored qc right now!

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2008/11/21/2008-11-21_expose_child_sex_abuse_in_the_orthodox_j.html

Expose child sex abuse in the Orthodox Jewish community
By Marci Hamilton
Friday, November 21st 2008, 4:00 AM
...
This is infuriating. In the name of protecting victims, a state assemblyman is shielding people accused of committing the most heinous crimes imaginable.

Enough is enough. First, the Brooklyn district attorney should convene a grand jury to investigate abuse within the Orthodox Jewish community - just as the district attorney did in Philadelphia to investigate the Catholic Archdiocese there.

Second, the state mandatory reporter law, which requires health care professionals and others to inform authorities of child abuse cases, must be amended to include elected representatives. There is no sound public policy that justifies permitting these officials to hoard such information to the detriment of children.

Most important, New York must enact Assemblywoman Margaret Markey's bill to extend the statute of limitations on child sex abuse and create a "window" - making it possible for those victims whose statutes of limitations have expired to file, for a set period of time, a civil lawsuit against perpetrators and the institutions that hid the truth.
...

[You are the bigest looser . . .
Posted by: getzel rubashkin ( not )]

GOOD GRIEF ! ! !

PLEASE, LEARN HOW TO WRITE; or buy/borrow a dictionary and make use of it.

[I can see is agenda with out any education, should be no problem for Curious Postville Native]

Actually, I hold a degree in Human Services which has been helpful post-raid and throughout the aftermath, not that it would be any of your concern.

As a trained observer, I have concluded your statements seem to lack a mature perspective, to say the least.

Posted by: Curious Postville Native | November 21, 2008 at 09:36 AM --

I posted this response to a statement --[Posted by: getzel rubashkin ( not ) | November 20, 2008 at 11:27 PM].

The real Getzel Rubashkin speaks three languages fluently. How many do you speak, Curious Postville Native? You've gotta realize he is under some stress. But Getzel, if that's really you, you do need to use spell check man. And do some deep breathing exercises before you comment. AND, don't take what Shmarya says so personally. Don't let him get to you. It's not worth it.

It isn't Getzel.

Okay, but I still recommend spell check and deep breathing exercises.

"Alvin,

Why are you so angry?"

Because the chipmonks disbanded.

getzel rubashkin ( not ),

Please stop your ranting as you are simply showing your ignorance in the face of facts WHILE substantiating your OJ perspective; your superiority to all others, and no matter what you do, you can do no wrong. It's arrogant and inexcusable, equating to racism.

Truly embarrassing.

All of you, STOP your attacks on Shmarya and Abbas or anyone else who shows the slightest hint at being a concerned with humanity.

You should be thanking these people for protecting ALL peoples.

Furthermore, the public is very well aware of FM and reads your ignorant rants. It does NOT fair well for you OR your people.

And yes, please use spell-checker. If you can use a computer, you can most certainly use a spell-checker.

There's no excuse nor place for ignorance in this world.

> 'Because the chipmonks disbanded.' - Yochanan

I forgot. Sorry Alvin! But Dave should have taught you better!

"All of you, STOP your attacks on Shmarya and Abbas or anyone else who shows the slightest hint at being a concerned with humanity.

You should be thanking these people for protecting ALL peoples."--

JaG,

Don't get me wrong. I do appreciate that Mr. Abbas was finally able to locate his telephone and report the incident to the police department. Thank you Mr. Abbas. And thank you for being a very public shoulder to lean on when people feel like reporting a potentially horrific act of violence.

"Furthermore, the public is very well aware of FM and reads your ignorant rants."

He could have reached a lot more people a lot faster by reporting it to the news media, if that were his true intention. Clearly, it wasn't. (My "ranting" isn't ignorant, by the way. Check the facts.)

"It does NOT fair well for you OR your people."

My people? Do I sense a hint of prejudice?

JaG,

I don't like your screen name. It reeks of degradation. I try to refrain from using that word anyway, but the fact that you have "Just a" in front of it makes matters worse. That being said...

What actions would you like to see from "my people"? (And please don't say you'd like to gaze at the tail lights of our Uhauls leaving town.) Seriously, what could we do to improve relations?

L4P: JAG was responding to faux Getzel, not you.

JAG: Alvin was always the problem Chipmonk. Dave always had to yell at him.

Don't get me wrong. I do appreciate that Mr. Abbas was finally able to locate his telephone and report the incident to the police department.

He reported it at approximately 6:50 a.m., and I confirmed this.

As for the media. believe me, many of them read my site – and some contacted me yesterday late morning about the story.

You're a very bitter person. Jeff Abbas did you a great favor but you repay this favor with venom.

Sick.

Let me be clear: Jeff Abbas reported the warning to police almost immediately after taping it.

Any concerns about response time, warning the community, etc., should be directed to them.

lobbying4peace -

I will happily repeat this for you so you are absolutely on the timeline yesterday morning.

I finished the recording at 6:46 AM. One Minute later, at 6:47, my first call was to the Allamakee County Sheriff's Office dispatch center. The dispatcher told me she would contact the Postville PD, as there is generally no one in the office at the Postville that early in the morning.

My next call was at 6:52 to a Jewish friend.

At 6:56 I called another friend to ask his opinion as to credibility.

There really is no need to continue this list, as you can see my first call was to the authorities. The local PD showed up here shortly before 8:00

as an in limbo agri worker who moved here several months ago for work, i am just as angry as anyone on not getting paid. however, me and most others know how to handle this situation in a peaceful LEGAL way. to me, it is quite obvious who these problem people are. i will not elaborate further. regarding us not getting paid, it gives no absolutely justification for violence against jews, local buisinesses and/or townspeople. to those who wish to take their anger out on the local jewish and gentile community, remember: "be sure your sin will find you out"

> 'What actions would you like to see from "my people"? (And please don't say you'd like to gaze at the tail lights of our Uhauls leaving town.) Seriously, what could we do to improve relations?' - lobbying4peace

First of all, let me preface with my handle, and a bit about me...

As to my handle - 'Just a Goy'; I use it in a multifaceted manor-

A.) Literally, ' Just a Nation,' and

B.) Because my parents are not jews, I am literally, a 'Goy.'

I use it humorously and sarcastically. I don't find 'goy' offensive, only when it's used in a derogatory manor.

I am one who embraces Judaism, but I am a convert, of sorts, though not officially. Here I use it as a reminder, If I were to truly convert, I wouldn't be truly accepted as a jew, by my ortho, modern and even some reformed brethren - and that troubles me; my genealogy does contain jewish lineage, but it is distant.


NO, there is absolutely no reason to leave Postville, as you are as American as apple pie, as any of us.

My contact and observations of some ortho as well as some modern and even some reformed jews, leads me to believe, I am perceived as less than a man, as well as less human and could never be accepted as a jew. There for I remain, agnostic.


I believe those perceptions, by those within the Postville OJ community were quintessential, when dealing with both gentile illegals and nationals, who were employed by Agri, as they were deemed, subhuman by OJs at Agri.

Furthermore, I'm deeply disappointed at some in the rabbinical kosher certification community, for knowingly condoning, turning a blind eye, to behaviors which took place at Agri. Refusing to intervene, concerning both animals nor helping those people displaced, abused.

I'm not happy with some jews and jewish aide agencies/societies, who believe money donated should only be used for the benefit of jews, not jews and gentiles.

Yes, I recognize shills who have come to both jew and gentile with aide. But there should have been far more done, by all.


How to resolve this situation? I don't have all the answers. But I do feel comradery and inclusion among community, is important, and a start.

How?

Invite gentiles to your home. Have them share in the celebration of Shabbos, High Holy Day, the lighting of the menorah, explain and show the meaning of a sukkot, and the like. Invite them to weddings, even a bris! Do things as community.

Diversity is good and it's what America is all about.

Yes, you can maintain your devout beliefs and mannerisms - but enculturate your neighbors. By creating a wall of non-inclusion, you create mystery, rumors and doubt - leading to misunderstanding, skepticism, prejudice and racism.

One of the best ways, I believe, is through one's stomach! I love multi-cultural food as well as multiculturalism! I yearn to visit far off, exotic places and their people's cultures. That's why I love to travel the world.


I love mankind. Yes, we've done horrible things to one another, but we've also done wonderful things with one another.


I'm personally not responsible for heinous actions perpetrated by those that were before me. Yet I do feel I an obligation to try to right the wrong and believe in doing so, I can make the world, in some small way, a better place, and atone for those before me who did wreak havoc on those, both past and present.


We're all not so different, yet some of us consider mingling with those outside out faith and community, unacceptable - as we'd become somehow would become impure and they unworthy.

This world is far too small to live alone. Let's embrace one another and appreciate our differences.

Mr. Abbas,

If you truly phoned the police one minute after your interview, then I apologize for accusing you of waiting for an hour. I don't feel at liberty to explain to you why I understood you had waited for an hour, but I had a very good reason.

I still will NEVER understand how you could have let that man leave your office without detaining him to speak to the police. I will forever believe you made a mistake in allowing, even encouraging him, to leave right away. But hopefully nothing will ever come from that poor decision.

I don't believe you are the enemy. I understand you have attempted in some ways to assist the entire community, and that is appreciated. In the event that any other potentially dangerous information come your way, G-d forbid, I am asking you, as a concerned citizen, to please escort the individual(s) to the authorities. Please.

And Shmarya, you missed the point. The fact that the news media had to contact you, instead of the opposite, that's the point.

JAG,

I was very moved by your last statements. I really want to respond to them, but haven't the time right now. You have renewed my hope in this community. I think we can all work together to do some good. Maybe something productive can come of all this nonsense afterall.

lobbying4peace,

As Abbas stated, the person who made the statement was leaving town and was fearful of retribution from those who sought revenge and even a pogrom. In other words, he ratted out those who trusted him with their scheme.

Please try to understand. Was it not better the individual shared, as opposed to seeing him harmed or even killed for helping the community?

I think him a brave man and an honorable man. It takes courage to announce to the world, he was a felon, and he didn't believe in such actions.

- regarding the aformentioned...

shulls NOT shills! OMG!!!

'i' is too close to 'u', on the keyboard!

'Yes, I recognize shulls who have come to both jew and gentile with aide. But there should have been far more done, by all.'

Actually, Shmarya is the one that said he left in a hurry b/c he was snitching.

Mr. Abbas said, "At 6:40 this morning the gentleman in the audio came into my studio to catch his pre-arranged ride to Waterloo. The ride was set up with a volunteer (using her own gas, I believe) the night before. In many cases, these ride arrangements have been hit and miss, and she happened to be in the studio while the gentleman was with me. My statement "Go now, while you can" simply meant that he should go, because his ride was there and waiting. There was no dark, foreboding element to the statement."

It was important that this man be questioned by the proper authorities, not Mr. Abbas. He had information regarding potentially heinous crimes. A later ride could certainly have been arranged for the man.

And I have to question the intelligence of the individual snitching. Wouldn't it have been logical to report privately to the police, rather than have his own voice TAPE RECORDED AND POSTED ON THE WEB FOR ALL TO HEAR?

That being said, at least he told someone. Thank you, Mr. Anonymous Snitch.

I still will NEVER understand how you could have let that man leave your office without detaining him to speak to the police.

Have you ever "detained" anyone?

Jeff did everything he could – exactly what law enforcement would say to do.

Please.

He encouraged him to leave.

t was important that this man be questioned by the proper authorities, not Mr. Abbas. He had information regarding potentially heinous crimes. A later ride could certainly have been arranged for the man.

Sigh.

If your police department had been able to respond to Jeff's call in a timely manner, the man would have been questioned.

But your police department was not equipped to respond that quickly.

You try so hard to blame Jeff for what is not his fault.

You are so funny. Who was left to question? Only Mr. Abbas. Why hurry?

Please.

The fact that you are wholly ignorant of recommended police procedure for non-police "detentions," just as you are wholly ignorant of so much else, does not excuse your ignorance.

What an ungrateful person you are.

You are so funny. Who was left to question? Only Mr. Abbas. Why hurry?

Nope.

Why hurry?

To protect you, that's why. To protect your kids. To protect other people.

As it turned out, the ride did not leave immediately. The police could easily have questioned him.

Plus, Jeff knew where he was being taken. The police could have called the cops in that city and asked for a detention for questioning.

Postville police did not do this.

He didn't try to detain him. That's the point. He ENCOURAGED HIM TO LEAVE. It's on the audio. Did you hear the audio?

Maybe I'm ignorant. Maybe not. You don't even know me. Sticks and stones...

He didn't try to detain him. That's the point. He ENCOURAGED HIM TO LEAVE. It's on the audio. Did you hear the audio?

That's your understanding.

Past that, no responsible law enforcement official would allow or encourage Jeff to detain him.

Maybe I'm ignorant. Maybe not. You don't even know me. Sticks and stones...

I read what you write and I compare that to the truth and to the facts.

Stop blaming an innocent man that only tried to help you.

BTW, by ignorant, I don't mean generally ignorant. I mean ignorant of the specific facts of this case and ignorant of normative law enforcement procedures and recommendations for things like "detaining" ex-felons.

Good Shabbos Everyone.

Let bygones be bygones...

TORAH STUDY FOR THE RUBASHKINS

Proverbs 16:18

Pride goes before destruction,
and a haughty spirit before a fall.

JAG: "I am one who embraces Judaism, but I am a convert, of sorts, though not officially. Here I use it as a reminder, If I were to truly convert, I wouldn't be truly accepted as a jew, by my ortho, modern and even some reformed brethren - and that troubles me..."

My shul is exceptionally welcoming to sincere converts, even those who are Black or Hispanic. My rabbi requires an Halachic conversion and a Modern Orthodox lifestyle, but other than that our community has no reservations about accepting converts. There are other synagogues like ours, albeit they are rare.

I personally welcome all sincere converts and Gentile fellow-travellers. We Jews may be Bnei Avraham, but we are also Bnei Adam. All human beings are made in God's image. No one should be mistreated based on birth.

PS: Mordecai, good to hear from you.

JaG:

I really was very touched by your response to my previous question of what we could do to improve relations within our community. Hopefully the following will help shed light on some of the issues you addressed:

"If I were to truly convert, I wouldn't be truly accepted as a jew, by my ortho, modern and even some reformed brethren - and that troubles me; my genealogy does contain jewish lineage, but it is distant." "My contact and observations of some ortho as well as some modern and even some reformed jews, leads me to believe, I am perceived as less than a man, as well as less human and could never be accepted as a jew. There for I remain, agnostic."

You are incorrect. You are very, very sadly misinformed. On the contrary, converts to Judaism are well accepted and respected within the community--even looked up to in some cases. There are quite a few cases in the Bible where people converted and had famous children. "The" King David was the grandson of a convert. Moses married a convert. Rabbi Akiva, from the era shortly after the destruction of the second temple, was the son of a convert and an "icon". I am sure there are many more examples but I am tired and my mind isn't working for me very well right now.

You mention several times that you are perceived as less than a man and subhuman to orthodox jews. For this reason, I would like to reiterate my previous opinion that your screen name reeks of self-degradation. I understand there are times when you can use the word goy without the negative connotation, but in this case that undertone is certainly there and I personally don't like it. I can't even bring myself to write out your full screen name, thus the initials. It is unfortunate that you have made that perception. Unfortunate for you, because no one should be made to feel that someone thinks they are less of a person for any reason...and unfortunate for the Jews you have come into contact with because they should be ashamed of themselves for giving off an err of superiority to ANYONE.

I would like to ask you specific examples of what interactions you have had with Jews which brought you to the conclusion that you were perceived as sub-human to them. Maybe a woman didn't shake your hand, or an orthodox kid didn't play with your kid, or something else happened? Just curious.

"I'm not happy with some jews and jewish aide agencies/societies, who believe money donated should only be used for the benefit of jews, not jews and gentiles."--

Are you specifically referring to the Agri situation? (Initially I assumed you were a Postville resident, but now I realize you may not be.) There is someone in Postville, a Jew, who went door to door to the businesses in town soliciting money the minute she heard about the raid that day in May. She was not collecting for the Rabbis. She was collecting for the families left behind by ICE. She continued to collect for those families and to get other community members, Jew and non-Jew, to give in some way to help ease their pain. She has been a real activist in helping to rebuild our town post-raid. There have been other solicitations to outside parties which will hopefully bring in some kind of relief to the entire community soon.

"Invite gentiles to your home. Have them share in the celebration of Shabbos, High Holy Day, the lighting of the menorah, explain and show the meaning of a sukkot, and the like. Invite them to weddings, even a bris! Do things as community."--

This is done, but not on a regular basis, and the main reason is because we are not allowed, that is, it is "against our religion" to encourage people to convert. I realize that not everyone is going to WANT to convert just because they attended a bris (especially a guy) but it still opens that door. Have I ever invited a non-Jew to my kid's bris or to my house for a Shabbos meal? Absolutely. (By the way, if you don't know why we discourage conversion, let me know because it probably isn't the same reason you are thinking.)

I am a good citizen for Postville. I cut my lawn regularly. I shovel my sidewalk. I keep my house well-maintained. I don't speed. I pay my property taxes like everyone else. I wave to my neighbors and wish the clerk at the local IGA and post office a good day when leaving. I would like to do something more for the community. My friends would like to do something more for the community. But we are afraid of the criticism. Long before the raid I had several community service ideas which I had planned to accomplish when I "got around to it". Then, like so many other people (non-Jews, too), I pushed if off because it was never the opportune time for me. But now, just because I am a Jew, I fear that people will think I am only volunteering and helping others to volunteer because of the raid. Frankly, that attitude is undoubtedly in the air and it happened to me just a couple of weeks ago. So maybe, just maybe, the non-Jewish community could also be a little less judgemental when they see us trying to help, and not suggest that we are only helping now because of the raid. Frankly, we can not win for losing.

Mordechai-

Get a life.

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