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November 24, 2008

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How many of these Jewish starving community members were drinking with Sholom after his first release? How many houses and farms have the Jewish community purchased? Funny how they would NEVER integrate with the community till now. Seems this community will eat up any pity story and be used as pawns for their benefit. Why doesn't Sholom open his house and his money bags up at Kosher Hill? It's bad enough we get sucked into all of this but know the churches (out of the goodness of their faith) have included surrounding towns to clean up our mess.

Well, if so many Jews who were indicted and scheduled to be tried did not previously flee the country to Israel and some other countries we do not have extradiction treaties with, the government would have no cause to claim this man presents a flight risk.

They should save the "20th century pogrom", it might become valuable one day given that it 8+ years into the 21st century.

Do the words tempting fate mean anything? With Iran building a bomb and anti-semitism on the rise, whining about getting caught in crooked business dealings is a bad idea.

There are many members of the OJ community and Lubavitchers that feel very bad about this mess but are not willing to cry antisemitism or pogrom. Yes the Rubashkins were great supporters of Chabad institutions and people in need. But that does not exempt them from the law. They knew after PETA and the EPA mess that they were targets but acted like fools. They knew the unions were targetting them. But they acted like Brooklyn butchers and not the managers of a $100 Million dollar business. They screwed up and they are taking many wonderful sweet people Jew and non-Jew down with them.

No one has had a house burned, no one B"H has been killed a or other horrible events associated with the pogrom. I have not yet read or scene one word of remorse or accountability for the mess there from Agri or its owners. In May they could have done something positive and real but instead they laughed at the world when Aaron removed Shalom yet he was still in charge. Hiding behind war on kosher petitions, protest for kosher, and such reminds me of how the italian community in NY protected the mob. Are we worshipping a Jewsih John Gotti?????

It is easy for folks whose who existence depends on agri to cry foul, and perhaps there is some anti-semitisim. Laws were broken, rules were bent lives are being ruined.It is painful and terrible. we are seeing evil words written and people divided. But not once did AGri say we will change, we will improve. It is time for real owner to take this place over and run it as a responsible 21st century business. It is time for the kosher certification agencies to pull their heads out of the sand a look at the entire Torah when being involved in a plant.

Frum Yidden we are lucky to be here in the US, we a lucky to be able to work and live in places like Iowa. My family was slaughtered in pogroms and I find it sad to throw that word around so easliy for the Postville mess, it is smear on the memories of the Lubavithsrs that died in the Gulag and in the camps and at the hands of the Cossacks and Communists. The children of Postville are still learning Torah and no one is carting young men off to the Russian Army. We are in the 21st century and lets face this crisis by Living int the Times.

they are barely jewish anymore...so they need to quit their bitchin...no one cares

Your blind hatred of Chabad knows no limits. Somehow you divined that the author of the "pogrom" statement is Chabad. Harris referred to him as an unnamed customer. Anyway, how would the Chabad affiliation been relevant and how do you differentiate this from the way **your** blog would have been quoted in Der Sturmer as the blog run by "the Jew Rosenberg"?

Shame on you.

The judge might have sufficient reasond to keep Rubashkin in jail, but bringing Israel into consideration does smell bad.

I wonder whether or not he judge allows any american of German origin on bail? Germany also offers citizenship to all Germans. And what about Spain and host of other countries.

This judge does look like a guy who has special rules for the Jews. That is called anti-semitism in my book.

Such utter ignorance... Open thine eyes. Stop spreading false rumors, unjustifiable self pity and self proclaimed anti-semitism. How utterly embarrassing!

A Pogrom? Oh, Please!

We've all heard enough of this blind, ignorant, juvenile denial.

G-d's people are NOT an ignorant people.

You are in America as Americans. For G-d's sake, act like it!

Integrate! You behave as if the rest of the world is so unworthy. The same world who is reaching out to help you. How utterly ungrateful, thou art!!!

G-d's law and man's law must be respected! People and animals must be treated humanly, and especially in Agri's position, spiritually. You mustn't cheat nor steel nor lie. Why? Because the Torah says so.

After all this... As a jew, If you honestly feel you're being persecuted... As a jew, if you feel no responsibility... As a jew, If you cannot see the difference between right and wrong... As a jew, If YOU don't feel American in America due to you own self inflicted isolationism, then there's obviously no reason to remain here, is there? Return to the Homeland. At least there you'll find solace in YOUR own community.

(This isn't meant as racism, only as an appeal at rational common sense.)

There's NO anti-semitism in this case the Rubashkins had no regard for the law and that's why they're in trouble.

They could have cleaned up their act after they knew they were being watched but they choose not to.

Why?

Moreover these Haradi often run to Israel when they're bad so they're flight risks.

anti-semitism??!! Progroms??!!
Ha!
It is HaShem who is doling out the punishment left and right!
HaShem hears the pleas and the lamentations of the abused workers!
Hashem hears his name taken in vain when an animal suffers needless pain and suffering when it is shecht!
HaShem hears all and sees all!
HaShem sees Treif being sold as Kosher and consumed by frum Yidden as if it is Kosher.
In the old days a lightning bolt would kill the wicked
Now it is the agents of the government that act as the 'arm' of HaShem.(I suppose also like the old days when foreign kings would deal out punishment)
Now, tonight, we learn another arm of the government is planning further prosecution!
HaShem also sees 'idol worship'[Rebbe Worship]a horrible sin.

Judge Scoles made the decision not based upon whim, but upon evidence and arguments by Council, offered in a court of law.

His words in part from the Order; "The evidence against the Defendant, however, would appear to be substantial. Not only have the transactions left a paper trail, ......." seem to fit the law regarding this situation (18 U.S.C. § 3142(g)).

I agree with many of the posts. There are laws in America as there are in any country. The Rubbishcans think that they are above the law. Funny, the same Postville Jews that cry anti-semitism by the government will be the first to have their hands out to get government money. P.S. that's "my" money that will be helping these people after the Rubbishcans have created this mess. I guess law biding honest citizen always get stuck with the bill, even someone like me who is not Orthodox and therefore morally inferior to the Holy Chabad and the Rubbishcans!

Isa- I agree!!!!!! What type of example is Chabad trying to show? Me the goy is often seen as bad. I'm a Noahide and must look to the Orthodox Rabbis for spiritual adviice.What type of advice will I get? Does a hasid care about me enough to give me sound spiritual dirrection? I try to be a TOG - Torah observant goy. Does anyone care that I look to the Chosen but what am I seeing? Will a Postville Jewish family invite me to Shabbos? Can I go to Shul and dance with Israel? People like to call my neighbors anti-semites. Who is the real anti-fraction here? Does anyone come together out of LOVE as children of the one G-d? Questions,Questions,Questions. I want answers not roadblocks!!!!! Shalom from Nathan the Noahide.

Ditto to Simon Rose, JAG, libby, Isa, Uncle Joe, CJ2. My grandfather lived through actual pogroms in what was then Czarist Russia (now part of Ukraine). These Rubbishmen are whining about a situation they created themselves. It's a self-inflicted "pogrom."

In the words of Dr. Evil: "Boo-frickety-hoo!"

Nathan: You'd be welcome as a guest in my synagogue. Keep the faith!

Yochanan:

Are you in charge of the choir at your shul? Loved your Dayenu bit!!

Just a Goy said ...

"Return to the Homeland."

You mean, return to Monsey???

Yes Yochanan,
It is only natural to invite Nathan to your synagogue.
"Birds of a feather..."
And now this:
The government in my opinion is acting senselessly. They are shooting themselves in the legs. Do the math.
Don't go on telling me how silly and ignorant I am. I already know how great I am. God loves you too. Don't be jealous...

God loves you too, Nachman. If the gov't doesn't prove its case, Mr. Rubashkin will walk. That's the rule of law. He'll have his day in court. However, where there's smoke, there is usually fire.

Nachos: Glad you liked it. My shul has no choir, but I am often shaliach tzibur. Not that I am worthy, but I know the nusach and have a pretty fair voice.

The Agri record includes: foul enviromental violations, thousands of wage violations, obnoxious child labor, slum lords, identity theft, bank fraud, hiring undocumented workers for profit. I think I missed a few. Its not a religious issue the actions of this company and its ownership are morally repulsive. Why would anyone buy a product from an exploitative company like Agriprocessors. Regardless of religon the owners and managers need to be held accountable to our laws.

I think the religious question is whether the orthodox group treats Palestinians in a like manner. Like most of my neighbors I have always been a supporter of Israel. Perhaps I have been to close minded. We have seen our share of exploitative ministries, but the number of "Rabbi's" associated with this mess is unbelievable.

There are many questions, few answers. For instance, Why haven't the "several dozen" friends of Rubashkin put up their homes to raise money to feed the hungry (Jews and non-Jews) in Postville? Is there something in the Torah that allows malevolence towards employees? I'd be happy to read answers.

Shmarya:

There is a lot wrong with this piece. Rashi Raices works for Chabad.

On this basis there is everything wrong with your blog. You work against Chabad specifically and Orthodoxy in general. One difference, not many people it would seem are prepared to pay you.

- Yochanan, I hope you had an opportunity to read my humble thanks for your encouragement and guidance. You are truly a great man who recognizes mankind as a whole, attends an enlightened shul with a rebbe who heart is full of love, leading his congregation to true enlightenment.

Archie has enlightended me, as to the Chabad movement - it has not had any leadership since the passing of their grand rabbi many years ago. And describes the movement as completely dysfunctional with people just acting as they please. A rational explination for their irational behavior.

- Nathan, you'd be wise to seek Yochanan's guidance. I too find myself in your shoes, seeking a life lead by the Torah. I have begun reading articles and teachings in reference to Halachic conversion, as Yochanan has lead me to.

Given what I have read so far, embracing Orthodox Judaism is the only true way of an observant means, via Halachic conversion.

Refer to these links for a brief introduction:

http://www.geocities.com/orthodox_conversion_to_judaism/Article_YHerskowitz.html
http://www.wzo.org.il/en/resources/view.asp?id=1422
http://www.halakhicconversion.org/articles/article5.html
http://groups.msn.com/judaismfaqs/convertingtojudaism.msnw
http://www.rabbis.org/documents/Comprehensive%20and%20Final%20Geirus%20Policies%20and%20Standards%20Protocol.pdf

And of course, there's much, much more...

Perhaps Yochanan (and others) could suggest a source for a specific Halachic study.

My problem, my nearest shul, is reformed.

BTW, I'm a divorced dad (not by choice). Conversion for me is not motivated out of marriage, only by my heart, as well as my daughter's life, future, well being and enlightenment.

Shmarya,

I just tried to post a response, but was flagged for being a potential spammer and was told the post would be held for review…

Was it the links I included in my post, verbiage, what...?

> 'You mean, return to Monsey???' - state of disgust

Perhaps a bit further east!

Another new addition to Rubashkin's legal team. He's fighting that the bankruptcy proceedings should stay in NY

http://www.lawyers.com/finkgold/jsp2140041.jsp

Kevin J. Nash
Member
Email: kjnash@finkgold.com

Practice Areas: Bankruptcy; Debtor and Creditor Rights; Commercial Law.

Admitted: 1984, New York and U.S. District Court, Southern and Eastern Districts of New York

Law School: Fordham University, J.D., 1983

College: Bucknell University, B.A., 1979

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/03/nyregion/03wage.html

He's currently defending a high profile client in a case similar to Rubashkin's.

nachman,

Chill my brotha, chill...

I've said it before and I say it again.
Jews of America (and Diaspora) Liquidate the exile before the exile liquidates you.
Come Home! After nearly 2000 years of cruel exile you have your own Land (albeit far from perfect).The anti- semitism in the Diaspora is growing more and more severe.
It is Hashem's message to leave the exilic cemetries and return to the real mother-Eretz Yisrael

Note to "Just a Goy" about Shmarya's crappy spam filter. Break your message into smaller chunks and post each one individually. It should work. I think it flags off the size and the number of links.

Jerome

Your blind hatred of Chabad knows no limits. Somehow you divined that the author of the "pogrom" statement is Chabad. Harris referred to him as an unnamed customer. Anyway, how would the Chabad affiliation been relevant and how do you differentiate this from the way **your** blog would have been quoted in Der Sturmer as the blog run by "the Jew Rosenberg"?

I changed the headline.

But the fact is, the Jews f Postville are either Chabad (the vast majority), or associate with Nitra (Rabbi Wiessmandl).

The Nitra Jews often speak little or no English. They are disinclined to speak with the press. And it is very unlikely any one of them would have been able to say the sentence as written.

In the Torah, G-d commands, "You shall eradicate evil out of your midst."

The Rubashkin Crime Family, unfortunately, is an evil in our midst.

What's currently happening, is in conformance with G-d's command, nothing more.

Everyone talks about Postville's mayor. If it were not for the churches in the area or Jeff Abbas prodding him to do many things like declaring Postville and economic disaster it would not get done. He is not a smart enough man to figure this out on his own.

JAG: Thanks. I am not such a great guy, but I appreciate it. I don't always do what God wants me to do.

There may be an Orthodox congregation in Cedar Rapids, or another big city in your state. You could perhaps try to correspond with them. They might require some face time, but I'm sure you can do much of your studying online and through Amazon.com books.

Don't be discouraged if they seem offputting at first. They just want to weed out the insincere. That's SOP.

Remember, Jew or Goy, God loves you and has made you in His image.

Chabad has some good individuals, and the late Rebbe was a great (although not perfect) man. But the movement has gone south since he died, and Rubbishcan is a disgusting travesty. I pray that they get back on track an do the good work that movement used to do (mostly with education).

Yochanan:

If they get back on track, what will you do for new material?

as far as feds concerned whole kit and kaboodle clan chabad orthodox Rubashkin on and on and on might as well be Amish who cares? but country bumpkin gypsy bunko artist check kiters--now got their attention

- Yochanan, none of us are perfect, least of all, me! But there's no question, you're a good man, and anyone who points others to enlightenment is doing good, by G-d's definition.

I don't distinguish all Chabad as dysfunctional, I know there are those who do have their heads screwed on right. But you have to admit, Archie's explanation is not too far off the mark.

Perhaps they could be defined as yet another lost tribe, trying to find their way home.

And to end a bit of confusion, I'm not in Postville nor Iowa...

- Jerome, Shmarya must have some sort of means of preventing his site from being abused - I understand. This was the very first time this has happened to me, and I've posted many lengthy responses... I believe it must had been the 5 links included in the body of my post.

- Choni Davidowitz, do you really believe what you are saying? Please open your eyes, and consider - Israel isn't what it is without the assistance of Americans. Don't be so quick to dis' us.

You'll find imperfection every where... even in Israel. Don't be such a defeatist.

- Yochanan, one more thing - you're d-mn funny, as well! You bring humor where there is little - warming hearts and minds, making bright smiles while opening eyes.

You should be your shul's cantor!!!

Humor is a great vehicle for getting one's point across, and the best medicine to boot ;-)

The "Pogrom!" schreiers have never been on the receiving end of anti-semitism or they would not carry on this way. First off they live in a Jewish bubble and they are far removed from the shoah so they dare to defile the victims past and present in such a dangerous way. They do not know what anti-semitism is beyond trotting out the card now and then when it suits their vulgarities. This will come back to kick them in the teeth; G-d forbid the rest of us poor souls get yanked into it.

There are also some Gerrer chassidim in Postville.

And didn't they attract some Lubavitchers because there is a yeshiva and the real estate is cheap?

Yochanan:

If they get back on track, what will you do for new material?

Posted by: nachos | November 25, 2008 at 07:02 AM

Good question. Unfortunately, there are still more foibles to provide fodder for this blog and my satirical parodies. BTW, not all my parodies are Rubashkin related.

but country bumpkin gypsy bunko artist check kiters--now got their attention

Posted by: StillNotShmarya | November 25, 2008 at 08:22 AM

That got MY attention! What a great turn of phrase. And try saying it 3x fast :)

JAG: Thanks for the kind words. Wherever you're located, try an Ortho synagogue. A Modern Orthodox one would probably be more open to prospective converts, but you never know.

BTW: You're right about Israel. America is her only friend, and has been good to the Jews. As our religion teaches us, miracles may happen but one shouldn't rely on them. Therefore, friendship between the 2 nations should be culitvated.

I do in fact function as the de facto cantor of my shul.

Yid& 1/2: Jewish miscreants cry anti-Semitism the same way that African American wrongdoers and their cheerleaders cry racism. It is not only inaccurate, it demeans the actual victims of such crimes. If every jerk is a Nazi, then the Nazis were merely jerks.

Archie: My guess is that they are schochtim. To the best of my limited knowledge, a schathouse usually employs men of various backgrounds because it's not a common skill set.

Yeah! What kind of country is this, when a poshut Yid isn't allowed to run around breaking the law whenever he feels like it? It's an outrage! Don't these cossacks realize that arresting someone for a string of felonies creates a hardship for lots of other people? My gosh, what is the world coming to?

AB and YL,
Gerrers in Postville doing what? Shechting? More on this if you can. YL, I get the logic but this is a Lubab operation, no? Always learning or trying to, y 1/2

I am speculating, based on what little I know about how these places operate. It seems logical. Most chassidic groups get along fine, most of the time.

poor sholom rubashkin yotzeh min ha clal--last wandering levite in nineveh selling aluminum siding and running the short con before the first winds blew and things got shaky--sheriff & co concentrated on their aleph-bets and remembered just enough to bust him

everyone said it was a shame

BULLS IN A CHINA SHOP
Echos of Ruby Ridge

I think Rebbitsen Raices has a point... there is an element of "overprosecution" going on here.

This sorry script had hundreds of Chertoff's blackshirts decending upon a little town, closing down the local industry and leaving unemployment, despair, devastation and hunger in their wake -- not to mention crisis in the national food supply chain.

ICE bumbled, acted incautiously and callously. To buttress their own position, they must now lean even harder and harder on this prosecution as a matter of self-justification. This compounds one error with another.

One gets the impression that had the operation been under the Justice Department, it would have been performed with more forethought and less collateral damage.

A thorough investigation should have been performed before any charges were brought; this piecemeal, incremental raid-snatch-squeal-charge method is not only unfair to the defendants, but has caused grief, anguish and suffering for many hundreds of entirely innocent, non-complicit, legally-working individuals who have now had their financial security pulled out from under them as a direct result of the incaution and lack of foresight exhibited by ICE.

In this dismal economy, ICE together with any enforcer or regulator must display extra caution so as not to visit economic devastation ongoing business enterprises as much as innocent third parties.

I put it to Chertoff's boys: If you were able in advance to anticipate the need to arrest, incarcerate, prosecute and process many hundreds of individuals that May day in Postville, why did you not at the same time consider what direct and collateral damage such action might cause economically and socially?

Did you really think that phoning the governor's office absolves ICE of moral responsibility for the economic devastation that resulted from its May raid? For the suffering now being endured by all the resultant unemployed? For local business and industry?

You cannot stumble and bumble across the commercial landscape of America like a bull in a china shop, or a posse in hot pursuit of fleeing wetbacks. We a a peaceful, civil country. A few more of these, and your congressional and popular mandates will inexorably weaken.

Certainly immigration compliance and enforcement at Agriprocessors could have been handled with greater forethought, greater finesse and greater concern for the effect of what ICE proudly billed as its largest raid ever. Whatever Mr. Rubashkin may be, he was not a narcotrafficante nor was he an armed robber.

Frankly, I think ICE should have worked with the company, over time, to addresss the apparently widespread false document problems. It did not need to drive the company essentially out of business, which is clearly the effect that ICE heavyhandedness has had.

The only winner out of this whole affair is likely PETA: I am probably not the only one who, after visiting this website so often, has become utterly disgusted with the idea of killing and consuming animals.

"There may be an Orthodox congregation in Cedar Rapids, or another big city in your state. You could perhaps try to correspond with them. They might require some face time, but I'm sure you can do much of your studying online and through Amazon.com books."

Sorry, but the only community in Iowa that has an Orthodox shul (other than Postville)
is Des Moines. I live there and we have a small, but nice OU shul named Beth El Jacob. And there are tiny Chabad one-family homes in the Quad Cities and Iowa City.

Feel free to check out http://www.betheljacob.org, which is the website of Beth El Jacob in Des Moines.

Yaakov, although I like my community, I checked it out. it's great to see some positive yiddishkeit in Iowa.

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