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October 06, 2008


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Now that it's a proven hoax


Read the several comments I left on this thread. And learn what the word hoax means.

Now that it's a proven hoax and the IDF generals have complained that they were misrepresented, why don't you retract this shady propaganda designed to support your boy, which we know (at least, any of us not kidding ourselves), you would do whether some idiotic leftist general vouches for him or not?

Jerome Soller

I am not impugning your Jewish loyalty. This issue IS about people whose associations over a period of twenty some years clearly shows their judgment, values, priorities, and views of the world more strongly than what they say in an interview during a political campaign. This issue is equally valid for both Ron Paul and Barack Obama. Ron Paul chose to encourage participation by white supremacist elements in his newsletters by inflammatory articles against blacks (and to a much lessor extent Jews). For this reason, I would not vote for him. Obama chose to remain in an antisemitic, black nationalist church for twenty years, and only left this church when it was politically expedient. The leadership of that church (not just poor Reverend Wright - don't make him a scapegoat for the other decisions of that church's leadership) invited letters from Hamas terrorists for their church newsletters and those newsletters remained on their web site for years. Those newsletter articles accused Israeli Jews of planning biological warfare/genocide against the world's blacks and Arabs (along with other "grievances"), as a justification for painting Israel as evil and continued Hamas terrorism against Israelies and Jews worldwide. (Side note: when I read the newsletter to Black Christian friends of mine, they were absolutely stunned.) For this reason, regardless of any other issues, I could not vote for Obama. Have read these newsletters, which I referred to in previous posts? This is just one of many, many Barack Obama associations which I find deeply troubling.


Rachel Batya

Jerome--Please don't insult my intelligence or impugn my Jewish loyalty. It says "Obama" all over the question, and I've already answered it.

Jerome Soller

Read my post clearly. I asked the following questions, which you did not answer, "If you were a Christian, would you support a church that invited white supremacist figures, such as Don Black of StormFront, to write articles in their church's official newsletter about how the world Jewish conspiracy planned to kill off or enslave the world's "whites" and how this justified violence against Jews as self-defence? Please give me an honest answer here. As a Jew, what would you think about a person that attended such a church for twenty years? Would you vote for such a person?" It does not say the word "Obama" anywhere in those questions. Please answer them.


Rachel Batya


Don Black of StormFront writing in a black church's newsletter? This is simply untrue. Don Black did make contributions to Ron Paul and Dubya, but Stormfront has called Obama a pawn of the Jews. Needless to say, this exchange alone proves him wrong.

I could go into the fact that Sarah Palin has had wonderful things to say about Pat Buchanan, and that she quoted a white supremacist at the RNC, and that she went to a healing ceremony at a church where the pastor asked Jesus to protect her from witchcraft, but why? It's been done already. It leads to inevitable talk about Farrakhan, and Wright, both of whom Obama has denounced already. Abe Foxman seems to be taking Obama at his word, and that's enough for me.

Rachel Batya

--Dan Quayle?--

No, but he's another good example of someone who wasn't qualified to be vice president either.

Yochanan Lavie

Well, that would be an improvement over the guy who mistook his friend's face for a quail, but not by much.

Dan Quayle?

Rachel Batya

--She can see a moose pretty clearly in her gunsight.--

Well, that would be an improvement over the guy who mistook his friend's face for a quail, but not by much.

Yochanan Lavie

Well, at least she can see SOMETHING clearly.

Posted by: Rachel Batya | October 06, 2008 at 07:47 PM

She can see a moose pretty clearly in her gunsight.

Jerome Soller

I read your post and it implies "moral equivalence" between Obama's former church and Palin's current one. This could not be further from the truth. If you were a Christian, would you support a church that invited white supremacist figures, such as Don Black of StormFront, to write articles in their official newsletter about how the world Jewish conspiracy planned to kill off or enslave the world's "whites" and how this justified violence against Jews as self-defence? Please give me an honest answer here. As a Jew, what would you think about a person that attended such a church for twenty years? Would you vote for such a person?


Rachel Batya

--"they" being Obama's staff, that is.--

Obama's staff never talked to anyone in the film. It was made by the Jewish Council for Education and Research--clearly a pro-Obama group, but not his staff.

Rachel Batya

--But Rachel, Sarah Palin CAN see Alaska from her house...--

Well, at least she can see SOMETHING clearly.



And other interviewed say it was not done that way, that their words were NOT taken out of context, and that they stand behind their words.

In other words, as I noted above, and as Rachel Batya put better, this all political spin, to be sure. But some of these generals really support Obama, and even those who do not support ether Obama or McCain said exactly what they are depicted as saying.

To be clearer: None of these former generals and mossad officials view Obama as a threat to israel. Some of them even view him as the best choice.

Arieh Lebowitz

From the Jewish Telegraphic Agency - http://www.jta.org/ -

SOURCE http://www.jta.org/cgi-bin/iowa/breaking/110672.html

Israeli army officers: Obama video misleading

jta - oCT 6, 2008: Retired Israeli army officers say their words were taken out of context in a video that claims they support Barack Obama.

The video released by the Jewish Council for Education and Research shows several retired Israeli army and secret service officials saying that Obama is their preferred candidate for U.S. president and that they support the Democrat's stated position of negotiating with Iran to avert a nuclear crisis.

Maj.-Gen. Uzi Dayan, a Former deputy chief of staff, told the Jerusalem Post that his words were taken out of context from an interview about what the next president would have to deal with.

"It wasn't about the campaign, it was about the political and security issues of the Middle East that the next president should be involved in," he said. "I don't want other people to interfere in my elections, and I must not interfere with the elections in the United States."

Former Mossad head Ephraim Halevy told the Post he was deceived in the same way.

Mik Moore, co-executive director of the Jewish Council for Education and Research, said the Israeli producers of the film "have assured us that all participants were fully informed of the nature of this project." He added, though, that if "there are folks who are unhappy, we will work with th


Later news articles has these same people claiming they were misled about the purpose of the interviews and their words were taken completely out-of-context.

IOW, the Jewish Council for Education and Research is a typical lying, left-wing front for the Democrats. I spit in their face.


"they" being Obama's staff, that is. (oops)


The Lekarav Report also had an article today excerpting comments from some of those "supporters" who said their words were spliced to make it appear they were supporting Obama and that his staff had said their interviews would not be used for campaign materials - obviously, they lied.

Yochanan Lavie

But Rachel, Sarah Palin CAN see Alaska from her house...

Rachel Batya

Oops, sorry, that was Sarah "I can see Russia from my house" Palin.

Off to work...

Rachel Batya

Yochanan: I went to UC Berkeley for college and graduate school, and I saw radicals there that gave me nightmares. Obama doesn't come anywhere close to being a radical. He's someone with a liberal agenda who will work with a range of people to forward that agenda. People in politics do it all the time.

It's analogous to Israel taking money from born-again Christians who think that the Jews killed Christ and that once all the Jews are in Israel, all of us who didn't accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior will be vaporized. Should Jewish leaders stop working with these people because they believe in the words of a "sacred" book that is largely anti-Semitic, whose words have contributed to the deaths of millions and millions of us? Should Jews not vote for McCain because these views are shared by his running mate Sarah "I can see Alaska from my house" Palin?

The fact is that as long as it is profitable for the US to support Israel, that support will continue. Whether the president is a Democrat or a Republican, it doesn't matter.

Rachel Batya

The film was made by the Jewish Council for Education & Research, clearly to help Obama. If I were just a regular person asked a question about Israel and did not know that the people asking me the question were going to use my answer in a political ad for a particular candidate, I'd feel pretty upset.

On the other hand, if I were an Israeli public figure, during an election year in my country's most important ally, I'd have to assume that my words might be taken out of context, and choose my words carefully (or not give the interview at all). Public figures are quoted out of context all the time--on the television news, in papers and magazines, in campaign ads, and on the Internet. It goes with the job. So the professions of outrage quoted in the article seem a bit thin to me.

In any case, the film is not a hoax. You can listen to what the people say about the Bush administration and their concern about McCain bringing more of the same. You can also hear what they say about Obama. If some pro-McCain material was left out (which I can well believe) it doesn't make the film a hoax. It makes it partisan. Surprise, surprise.

Yochanan Lavie

Ezer Weizmann endorsed a 2nd term for Jimmy Carter. Israeli politicians (and the generals and intell people ARE politicians) want to cozy up to whomever is in power in America. That's understandable, given Israel's position. So some will endorse Obama, some will endorse McCain, and whomever wins Israel can say "We were always on your side."

Many pro-Israel Jews like Obama. His former radical associates give me pause, more so than his cultural background. There are several possibilities:

1. He was never a radical, and cynically used radical politics to build a Chicago power base.

2. He is still a radical, and is cynically appearing moderate to be elected.

3. He was a radical, but had a change of heart as he matured politically. That's what probably happened to Hillary, who had a similar Chicago-Alinsky background.

Let's hope it's number 3.


That is not what the story says.

2 officials say they were misled about the nature of the film. But you can hear and see what they told the filmmakers.

2 others say they stand behind their remarks, including one who said he would personally vote for Obama.

That does not equal "hoax."

See the following link to the Jerusalem Post - http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1222017470356&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

The video is a hoax and the views contained therein have been deliberatley taken out of context.

Garnel Ironheart

This is actually a good thing for the McCain campaign.

After all, if the IDF and Mossad intelligence is as good as it was during the Second Lebanon War, then they've hitched themselves to the sure loser!


The ad is already being denounced as fraudulent by some of Israelis filmed in it.

Way to go SR!


Israel has more heavy hitters in the fields of intelligence , security and military affairs per capita than any other country in the world. bar none.

To find some who supposedly back NoBama isn't a relevant issue at all.

BTW a Hamas spokesperson has stated that they are looking forward to Obama's election as President. A wonderfull endorsement.


From Commnetary Magazine.
And I have read the same information from other sources.

Did Biden Call for a Cut-Off in Aid to Israel?
John Podhoretz - 08.26.2008 - 12:06 PM
A friend in Washington e-mails a quote about a confrontation between then-Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin and Joseph Biden, that would have occurred in the summer of 1982. The quote comes from a piece by Moshe Zak, one-time editor of the Hebrew paper Ma’ariv, that appeared in the Jerusalem Post on March 13, 1992 (sorry, no link):

In a conversation with Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan, after a sharp
confrontation in the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on the subject
of the settlements, Begin defined himself as “a proud Jew who does not
tremble with fear” when speaking with foreign statesmen.

During that committee hearing, at the height of the Lebanon War, Sen.
John Biden (Delaware) had attacked Israeli settlements in Judea and
Samaria and threatened that if Israel did not immediately cease this
activity, the US would have to cut economic aid to Israel.

When the senator raised his voice and banged twice on the table with
his fist, Begin commented to him: “This desk is designed for writing,
not for fists. Don’t threaten us with slashing aid. Do you think
that because the US lends us money it is entitled to impose on us what
we must do? We are grateful for the assistance we have received, but
we are not to be threatened. I am a proud Jew. Three thousand years
of culture are behind me, and you will not frighten me with threats.
Take note: we do not want a single soldier of yours to die for us.”

After the meeting, Sen. Moynihan approached Begin and praised him for
his cutting reply. To which Begin answered with thanks, defining his
stand against threats.

Joel Katz

Read Haaretz article and Video about this ad:

U.S. Jewish committee recruits former Israeli defense officials for pro-Obama ad

A Jewish political action committee that supports Barack Obama's bid for the American presidency has "recruited" former senior Israeli defense officials to the campaign by collating flattering statements about the Democratic senator from seven such officials into a new advertisement that will begin running on Monday.

However, it seems that some participants - including former Mossad chief Ephraim Halevy and Brigadier General (res.) Uzi Dayan - were unaware they were aiding an Obama campaign ad.

…some of participants, apparently were unaware they were aiding a campaign ad.

Dayan, for instance, claimed on Sunday that he had no idea he was appearing in the ad, that his words had been taken out of context, and that he neither supports nor opposes Obama, as he opposes any Israeli involvement in American politics.

"I never said I support Obama or his opinions," Dayan said.

"They interviewed me in early July and said the interview would be devoted to questions of Middle East policy that would be on the new president's desk ... I don't know what I'm doing in a campaign video."

He added that he has asked the council to remove him from the clip and that he would consider his next moves after receiving its response.

Halevy also denied ever having expressed support for Obama.

"I said he's a fresh, interesting personality and so forth, but I also said positive things about McCain," Halevy said.

"I told them I thought it was inappropriate for an Israeli to express an opinion on who should be president of the U.S.

I learned of this only today, and it angers me. I think it was an improper use of the interview with me, and I will demand that they correct it.

Joel Katz

Religion and State in Israel


Jerome Soller

Hi, Shmarya,
Why is this relevant to the objectives of the failedmessiah site? Periodically, you will post articles that promote Obama and never one promoting McCain. I would no sooner vote for Obama than I would Pat Buchanan or Ralph Nader, as I care about the future of Israel. Any person that would belong to a church (for twenty years) that posted blood libels on their web site for over a year (until pressure finally forced them to revamp that site) will not get my vote!

However, at the same time, thank you for putting in the disclaimor that the above statements are from leftists.

Best wishes,

McCain Palin 2008 (Just in case there was any question where I stand :) )

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