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October 04, 2008

BREAKING GETZEL RUBASHKIN OUTED BY AP and FAILED MESSIAH: Anonymously Started And Ran "Grassroots" Pro-Agriprocessors Blog Postville Voices, Hid Identity – Also Sockpuppeted On FailedMessiah.com

Getzel Rubashkin Sockpuppet Comments Found Defending Agriprocessors, NCSY-OU, and Baruch Lanner. Comments date back to early 2007.

First, the Astroturfing uncovered by the AP. In a wonderful piece of investigative work, the AP outed…

…Getzel Rubashkin, the son of "former" Agriprocessors CEO and current
Agriprocessors VP Rabbi Sholom Mordechai Rubashkin.

Getzel – who frequently commented here while claiming not be an an official representative of Agriprocessors, even though he spent hours during his workday commenting here and on other websites – and two friends anonymously created…the fraudulent "grassroots" blog Postville Voices.

There is one clear mistake in this AP report. Getzel claims to work at Agriprocessors "part time." Yet, when commenting on this blog Getzel clearly wrote that he was a manager at the company and was able to devote so much time to blog commenting because he was judged on how much work he completed each day, not how much time he actually spent working.

I think the truth is, Getzel Rubashkin was paid by Agriprocessors to do his blogging, just as it paid him to do his "managing."

Getzel also admitted in comments left on this blog to using two different computers in the plant, one in his department and one in his father's office. Another, anonymous commenter claiming to be an Agriprocessors employee wrote that Getzel used a computer in his father's office all day, almost every day.

I can tell you that when I tracked those comments a couple months ago, almost all of them came from the same IP address – presumably the one linked to Sholom M. Rubashkin.

But that is not all.

I can also tell you that several pro-Agriprocessors comments were left early in the Agriprocessors immigration raid scandal from that same IP address, meaning from that same computer. Those pro-Agriprocessors comments were left by "John." Not surprisingly, John's comments sound uncannily like Getzel Rubashkin.

The identifying information "John" left in that post leads to several other IPs with the same exact identifying information, most shared by "John" comments, as well. One of those comments, left on Yochanan Lavie's guest post about his days in NCSY under now-convicted child abuser Rabbi Baruch Lanner is especially noteworthy:

Our history? I think this was an issue of a few people, its not like mr.
Lanner was rehired by ncsy so everyone needs to be reminded of what he
did. Rather we must hope that he has been rehabilitated, and as JEWS
give him that chance to do teshuva.
Posted by: proudjew |January 09, 2008 at 10:14 AM

Here is Getzel as Getzel, followed by Getzel as John and Peterson. Please click to enlarge:

Getzel As John, Peterson, And Getzel 1 

Getzel As John, Peterson And Getzel 2

Here is Getzel as John, proudJew, Bitzy and Anon posting via Blackberry. Identifying information left as John here matches the same identifying information left as John above. Please click to enlarge:

Getzel Blackberry As John, Proudjew, Bitzy And Anon

These are only a few out of many examples.

There are also comments as "John" questioning the assertion that KAJ dropped its supervision of Agriprocessors due to kashrut reasons and otherwise defending Agriprocessors.

Some of you told me you were impressed, at least in the beginning, with Getzel's "honesty." My response was that you were being duped. I think you can see that now.

You know Getzel Rubashkin sockpuppeted on this website (and perhaps others) just like Agriprocessors' PR firm 5WPR. And you now know he Astroturfed, as well:

Blog on meat plant was astroturf, not grassroots

NIGEL DUARA

IOWA CITY, Iowa (AP) — As Agriprocessors Inc. was getting stung by criticism after a federal immigration raid snared hundreds of its workers, "a blog by people who live and work in Postville" appeared in its defense in May.

The blog defended the hiring practices of the plant in the small Iowa community, rebutting allegations in a federal affidavit and railing against the media, government and a labor union.

"We've had enough of every organization with an agenda cynically misrepresenting our town and workplace to further their own ends," PostvilleVoices.com said. It added that "there is one thing we do know _ the people that run Agriprocessors are good, decent, honest people and we trust that they have acceptable answers."

It was grassroots activism at its finest _ if you think the son of the plant CEO at the time and two of his friends count as grassroots activists.

The anonymous blog was an odd twist in the case against Agriprocessors _ since expanded to include child-labor charges _ as well as an example of an increasingly common practice known as astroturfing _ inventing grassroots support without the trouble of engaging a community.

"There's not a big penalty associated with doing this and being caught," said Herman B. Leonard, a professor at Harvard University's John F. Kennedy School of Government. "There's a potentially substantial benefit from being able to get out there with something that seems like a well-informed and active and energetic view that does not seem to be self-interested.

"So if you get away with it, it's a plus. If you don't, they say, 'Well, it's not too surprising.' "

Aiding the deception was a new development in astroturfing: Web hosts that protect a site owner's identity from anyone not holding a subpoena.

Dan Handy, the general manager of the Postville site's Web host, Bluehost.com, said the intention of his site is to stop spammers from stealing personal information from online registries. But he acknowledged there's also the benefit of complete anonymity.

Tracking such sites is difficult because of the anonymity, but other examples include:

_ Tennesseans Against Teen Drinking was promoted as a font of grassroots opposition to Internet sales of alcohol, but its Web site didn't mention that the group was backed by major alcohol lobbying firms that wanted to kill legislation allowing people to buy wine from other states.

_ Consumers Organized for Reliable Electricity ran a Web site warning about the consequences of an electricity rate freeze. It was later revealed the group was largely funded by Illinois electric utility company Commonwealth Edison.

The pro-Agriprocessors site was formed by 24-year-old Getzel Rubashkin and two friends not connected to the company. His father, Sholom Rubashkin, was until this summer the plant's CEO, and his grandfather, Aaron Rubashkin, owns the New York-based company.

The blog drew the suspicion of area residents, including a radio host. Getzel Rubashkin said in an interview with the host that he provided some technical assistance for the site, then acknowledged in an interview last month with The Associated Press that he and his friends created it.

Rubashkin, who lives in Postville and worked part time at Agriprocessors, said he didn't use plant money to work on the blog, but did film the interviews in the plant and had unfettered access to it and its employees.

Getzel Rubashkin said he and his friends started the Web site about two weeks after the May 12 raid, in which 389 workers were arrested on immigration charges. The hope, he said, was to counteract false media reports.

Rubashkin said that, in hindsight, he should have attached his name to the site, but that he wanted the claims to stand on their own merits.

"I do see now in retrospect that it could look deceptive," Rubashkin said. "That was not the intent."

He said he had been discouraged by management from maintaining the Web site and expressing views there.

"Humanity benefits from honest communication," Rubashkin said.

A call to Agriprocessors seeking comment was not returned Friday.

Aside from picking a Web host that provided anonymity, he said, he and his friends didn't try to fool anyone.

"No extra effort went into pretending that this was a neutral site or that the blogger didn't have any opinion," Rubashkin said.

At the same time the Web site was supposedly giving voice to Postville residents, the company became tangled up in an embarrassing situation in which a New York public relations firm paid by Agriprocessors had to apologize when an employee falsely used a rabbi's name to post Web comments about the plant and question its critics.

The rabbi, Morris Allen of Minnesota, threatened legal action but said Monday that the matter was resolved "in an agreed-upon manner." He declined to be specific.

Forms of astroturfing can pay off for companies and interest groups, and the practice is undoubtedly becoming more common, said Eric Dezenhall, who heads Dezenhall Resources, a Washington, D.C., corporate crisis-management firm.

Dezenhall recalls talking to a group representing a prospective client who spent time building blogs. He asked the lead manager whether the group "had a roomful of people who pretend that they're Mr. Joe Citizen on blogs all day."

"There was a lot of squirming," said Dezenhall, who has written two books on astroturfing.

He said he opted not to work with them out of concern that the practice would backfire. And that's something companies and groups should keep in mind before setting loose a roomful of bloggers-for-hire or launching a positive-spinning Web site, he said.

"If you're under fire for something, a wholesale front group causes the media, regulators, legislators, natural opponents to dig in, because it validates the notion that (the group is) doing something wrong," he said.

In the weeks since the site announced its final chapter, a new Web site has emerged, one that Getzel Rubashkin said he has nothing to do with.

Agrifacts.info clearly states that it is run by "friends, family and supporters of Agriprocessors and the Rubashkin family."

Comments

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WHO CARES - GET A LIFE

If Getzel isn't behind Agri-"facts", then what about Mendel Rubashkin who recently promoted that propaganda website here?

I wonder if there is an electronic trail that leads to Chabad of Brandon, Florida or other computers like Chabad of Colonie, NY, Moishe Rubashkin controlled entities like the CHJCC or any of the Balkanys.

If anyone recalls, Getzel would always dodge questions over the issue of sockpuppeting by 5Wankers Torossian / Engelmayer.

Shmarya should compare notes with the JTA to see where else Getzel has been typing away.

Archie Bunker

I see you believe in conspiracy theories

So if it's proven that Getzel has a Blackberry, didn't he categorically deny that is the case?

MIDVAR SHEKER TIRCHOK

FF,

"Uncle Milton" Balkany showed up a meeting to intimidate Rubashkin critics and several members & agents of the family have been active on blogs. You don't need to be paranoid to think there's more tham meets the eye here.

Archie,

Rav Yudel asked that you e-mail him at [email protected]

steve –

Getzel sockpupeted you once. I'm adding that to the post now…

The Rubashkins will exploit ANY angle as long as it suits their needs.

So if it's proven that Getzel has a Blackberry, didn't he categorically deny that is the case?

MIDVAR SHEKER TIRCHOK

Perhaps the company owns the Blackberry and that's how Getzel "escapes" lying.

++didn't he categorically deny that is the case?++

Directly to me - yes he so denied.

I do remember making that comment regarding the truck accident where the chickens fell off the truck. Getzel was arguing that there is no way that 9,000 chickens can fit on the truck, and I answered that maybe that's why they fell off, since the truck was overstuffed. I may have used my blackberry that day. The other comments under that IP are surely not mine, as those posts are clearly not my views and I wouldn't post under another name.

The "John" comment:

If KAJ did indeed leaave because of kashrus, as alleged based on a 'secret' letter, wouldn't it behoove them to shout this from the rooftops and if they have not, isn't this proof positive that it was NOT a kashrus issue?

Posted by: john | July 30, 2008 at 07:24 PM


That comment is clearly in line with Getzel's reasoning. The other comment by "anon" regarding the rabbis and the Mir was not mine either.

So RIM/Blackberry is shuffling IPs. What are the odds, though, that you and Getzel woulld briefly share one or that so many of these Blackberry IPs match Getzel?

I'd say very slim.

I'll delete that Blackberry section, though.

Maybe upper case John is Getzel and lower case john is someone else.

Other data matches.

++I'd say very slim.++

I'd say you are a master of understatement.

Shmarya, aside from my involvement in PostvilleVoices, which I have responded to over there, none of this other crap is true.

I do not own a Blackberry. I use a company phone and could not justify the extra cost of the data package.

I have never sockpuppeted. Ever.

I posted under a screenname on this site, maybe 7 years ago, for about a week. Otherwise all of my posting has been with my own name.

I don't know how IP assignments work on a large network of computers using the same internet access, but I most assuredly did not post the comments you are accusing me of posting.

I work part-time. Like it or not, that is the arrangement I made when I joined the company.

What I said about different computers was that I sit in different locations in the plant when working on different projects. As a matter of fact, I am currently sitting in the accounting section.

I have not lied or deceived. I have seen in the past few months that justice is dead and buried, but I will go on the record whether anyone will believe me or not.

If the authors of the other comments would identify themselves, I would appreciate it.

Thank you steve.

Getzel –

The information matches. It isn't just IP addresses.

I know it is not true. What other information matches?

Other identifying information.

You left comments defending the company but used the name John.

You also left other comments using other names.

I know it is not true.

Coming from the Astroturfer behind Postville Voices, that carries a lot of weight – not.

That is a lie. What identifying information other than IP adresses?

You can call it whatever you want. My involvement was common knowledge from day one, you can ask your buddy Jeff, and the posts and videos are the words of the people. I helped provide the platform.

Steve already showed that your investigative methods are, shall we say.. faulty?

False.

You concealed your involvement, Getzel.

Past that, you lie with alarming regularity.

As for what other information, I'll share that with the AP or with the Forward or JTA.

I'm not posting it here so you can add another line of lies.

Steve already showed that your investigative methods are, shall we say.. faulty?

No, he did not.

Blackberry IPs are only a small part of the information I have on you, Getzel.

Past that, the odds of you and steve sharing an IP are astronomical.

That means something else happened with that one comment – something that is now being investigated.

I did not conceal my involvement, and that is a documented fact.

I lie with alarming regularity now? Care to give an example that you are man enough to substantiate?

Neutral comment---
Just some background about those IP's they do not change per computer rather per gateway, so a large company can have 100's of computers behind one gateway (thats just how it works).
RIM devices all share one or two gateways, so anyone posting with a Blackberry would have the same IP.
AOL is also all behind one gateway, so any AOL users would share an IP address.

Just FYI.

I did not conceal my involvement, and that is a documented fact.

I lie with alarming regularity now? Care to give an example that you are man enough to substantiate?


You just did it again.

RIM devices all share one or two gateways, so anyone posting with a Blackberry would have the same IP.

RIM has a huge # of IPs, not one or two. And I get many comments from people using Blackberrys – but only those I originally posted matched Getzel.

Listen, clown. I know the truth. You cannot prove something that did not happen.

If the IP's match another commenter, it is either caused by the way IP's are assigned by the network or some other technical reason.

I don't know of any other identifying information that would be shared by commenting on a blog, but the information will reflect the fact that you are accusing me falsely. (Surprise, surprise)

Again, I DO NOT OWN A BLACKBERRY.

Regarding the stupid comment
""That is a lie. What identifying information other than IP adresses?""

It is ALMOST like someone saying "That is a lie. What identifying information other than fingerprints?"

++I did not conceal my involvement, and that is a documented fact.

I lie with alarming regularity now? Care to give an example that you are man enough to substantiate?

You just did it again.++

Whoa, there was a telling mark of maturity. You are an irresponsible child who uses his access to the internet to smear people without regard to truth or the consequences of your words.

Listen, Getzel – you're far from honest, that's clear.

You don't own a Blackberry? Does the company own one you might use? Your wife? Your brother or father or friend?

Please.

Past that, the comments posted as jpgs above are NOT Blackberry IPs.

Got that, Getzel, er, John?

Isa: Or like calling someones bluff and saying, you say you have something else, what is it? Oh, you can't tell? Aha..

The Peterson posts and the upper case John posts were from the same IP as a Getzel Rubashkin post. Also, the style of John and Peterson are very similar to Getzel's. Notice that once he started posting as himself, John and Peterson stopped posting. If Getzel never used a blackberry to post, then how did John and Peterson get access to your computer? Perhaps these are other Agri employess, perhaps Chaim Abrahams or Heshey, or perhaps Getzel's dad???

SHmarya, your desire that I be deviously lying does not make it so.

I HAVE NEVER SENT ANY INFORMATION USING A BLACKBERRY. As a matter of fact, I have never done anything with a Blackberry other than turn one over in my hands and say "cool."

The IPs posted above will not show that I posted comments I did not post. If the commenter above is correct, anyone posting from Agriprocessors would or could have the same IP address.

Don't let that slow down the smear machine though.

++Past that, the odds of you and steve sharing an IP are astronomical.++

Current IP protocols allow for 4,294,672,296 combinations.

RIM has a huge # of IPs, not one or two. And I get many comments from people using Blackberrys – but only those I originally posted matched Getzel.

RIM owns exactly 3825 ip's, most are not used. Each carrier (ATT, Verizon, etc...) gets just one or two.

also
Unless you have the ISP's IP to MAC assigment log, the IP's mean nothing. Its a clue but not hard evidence.

Thank you "me." I am uninformed on the technical details but I appreciate the voice in the wilderness.

Getzel, you may not own a blackberry but I am sure that Agriprocessors does and lets you use it.

Past that, the comments posted as jpgs above are NOT Blackberry IPs.

um, yes they are.

um, yes they are.
rather 216.9.250.97 is.

OK, I just read through the JPGS above...
sorry for the mutiple comments to myself.

In a small ISP like netINS IP assignments will overlap very often actually, so while I cannot say for sure but it can happen that many visitors to this site will share an IP.
They are all certainly in or around postville, however.

SOP: I have never used a Blackberry in my life.

um, yes they are.
rather 216.9.250.97 is.

And the first is not.

John – who has the same IP as Getzel in the first series above, posts using a Blackberry in the second.

The other data matches the first John.

John stopped using Getzel's static Agriprocessors IP as soon as Getzel began posting using his own name.

It is ALMOST like someone saying "That is a lie. What identifying information other than fingerprints?
also no, while its sounds like evidence, IPs are not identifying unless static or used multiple time in a short period of time. (< 24hrs)

OK, enough. I go to zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Continuing my above comment, it is a remarkable coincidence that an IP coming from inside Agriprocessors would be used by "John" and then be taken over by Getzel and, when that "takeover" happens. John stops posting.

We see from his comments that John is an Orthodox Jew, he works for Agri, and he's inside the company.

His writing style matches Getzel's.

And john later uses a Blackberry to comment.

also no, while its sounds like evidence, IPs are not identifying unless static or used multiple time in a short period of time. (
But we have exactly that here. Getzel left almost 50 comments per day some days using that same IP.

Not why you think 209.152.81.145 is static. Its not.

Peterson and john last comments are 17 days before getzel's comments.

And let me be clear. Even if Getzel's claims are true – and they are not – someone from inside Agriprocessors left comments on this site defending Baruch Lanner and Agriprocessors.

Not why you think 209.152.81.145 is static. Its not.

Peterson and john last comments are 17 days before getzel's comments.


Why do you:

a) think it isn't static and,

b) think that Getzel used it for months uninterrupted if the IP isn't?

Classic Shmarya. Posts a smear, (stickies it?), says oh, and even if it's not true...

Classic Shmarya. Posts a smear, (stickies it?), says oh, and even if it's not true...

Classic Getzel – get's caught lying and smear the people who caught him.

What I actually wrote:Even if Getzel's claims are true – and they are not – someone from inside Agriprocessors left comments on this site defending Baruch Lanner and Agriprocessors.Now process, Rubashkin:

You created a blog and pretended it had no connection to Agriprocessors. You lied.

You left comments here – which you admit – using fake names. Some of those comments defend Agriprocessors. (You say THOSE comments aren't yours – only the other fake ones are.)

Pathetic.

Why do you:

a) think it isn't static and,

b) think that Getzel used it for months uninterrupted if the IP isn't?

....erm, cause its assigned to netINS not Agriprocessors, and netINS is the ISP and dishes them out as needed.

its common to hold the IP for months if the gateway never resets, once it resets, there is a 50/50 (or so) chance of getting your IP back.


++Not why you think 209.152.81.145 is static. Its not.++

Rather looks like it from here - it's on a DSL line.

Curious as to what you are looking at.

Even if Getzel's claims are true – and they are not – someone from inside Agriprocessors left comments on this site defending Baruch Lanner and Agriprocessors

who is lanner?
but anyway, from the JPG's you posted you cannot say for sure that all those comments are from Agriprocessors, only that they are from in or around Postville.

...erm, cause its assigned to netINS not Agriprocessors, and netINS is the ISP and dishes them out as needed.

its common to hold the IP for months if the gateway never resets, once it resets, there is a 50/50 (or so) chance of getting your IP back.


Well, it didn't "reset" for months and, when it "did" it was given to someone who

a) Knows details about the Rubashkin family and Agriprocessors

b) Is an Orthodox Jew

c) works for Agriprocessors

And that person has never commented since using his previous aliases or any similar IP owned by the same ISP.

In other words, you are, erm, full of it.

Rather looks like it from here - it's on a DSL line.

Curious as to what you are looking at.

DSL does NOT mean static.

In other words, you are, erm, full of it.
That's not nice, I am only commenting about the information you posted above from a technical point if view. Unless you have more information, I stand by my comments.


..and I just checked netINS is tiny!! they only have 16065 IP's, pleanty of overlap.

Well, it didn't "reset" for months and, when it "did" it was given to someone...

actually it went from john to peterson to getzel

and I just checked netINS is tiny!! they only have 16065 IP's, pleanty of overlap.

Check the population stats for NE Iowa in that area. It's like having 1.6 million IPs in NYC.

Well, it didn't "reset" for months and, when it "did" it was given to someone...

actually it went from john to peterson to getzel


No. That is what you claim, without any proof.

Check the population stats for NE Iowa in that area. It's like having 1.6 million IPs in NYC. good point, let me check the geographic allocation area.

No. That is what you claim, without any proof.

huh, its your log (the JPG's) I am reading, thats all. Is there more information somewhere else that I missed?

my comments above got mushed, sorry.
repost...

Check the population stats for NE Iowa in that area. It's like having 1.6 million IPs in NYC.

good point, let me check the geographic allocation area.

No. That is what you claim, without any proof.

huh, its your log (the JPG's) I am reading, thats all. Is there more information somewhere else that I missed?

There are hundreds more Getzel comments on that IP. It would take me an hour just to pull them all up, copy them and post them.

What's all this nonsense?? Getzel is NOT John; I am. If anyone needs an investigator, I would suggest not using the master of this blog!

As for style - so now you're an expert on similar styles?! Don't you see that I use more semi-colons?

There are hundreds more Getzel comments on that IP. It would take me an hour just to pull them all up, copy them and post them.

before or after 07/11/2008?

I will have to trust your analysis of those IPs and logs...

I am still kinda miffed at being called full of it.

What's all this nonsense?? Getzel is NOT John; I am. If anyone needs an investigator, I would suggest not using the master of this blog!

As for style - so now you're an expert on similar styles?! Don't you see that I use more semi-colons?


Nice try, Getzel.

Getzel- that was dumb.

It seems a lot of weight is entrusted in the "Name" field just above. Can put whatever I like in there?

Shmarya, you have, at best, circumstantial evidence. If it was murder, based on what you have provided, there could be no conviction ... believe it or not, you can even spoof MAC addresses if you want to.

I don't know what the correct story is, but heck, this is all about PR and Spin --- from both sides. To claim that protagonists on both sides don't use different tactics with a similar aim would be fanciful.

One could argue there is potential G'neivas Daas here. That's true if you can scientifically prove your allegations --- "on the balance of probabilities" is not enough.

Less than 2 weeks ago, someone tied to leave a comment using a spoofed IP.

It was immediately flagged as spam.

How do I know?

The person who did it sent me an email to tell me. He did it to test my system. His comment was flagged as spam.

My hopefully objective thoughts on the above discussion as a Computer Science PhD and president of a software company, not necessarily an expert in networking. It was not clear whether the Agri IPs were static or dynamic. Getzel could in ten minutes get information from the Agriprocessor system administration or their ISP to demonstrate whether this IP is definitely static or dynamic. In the absence of this, I believe it is static. Their ISP is netINS and they have approximately 16065 IP's, making it statistically near 100% likelihood that the messages were posted from the same subnet with Agriprocessors (and 100% if it is static).

It is correct that externally accessible static IPs don't change per computer, but rather per gateway or firewall. However, depending how a computer is set up, other information (beyond just the IP address) can also be pulled from a given desktop computer or cell phone with computer capabilities. I can not imagine an organization such as Agriprocessors having hundreds of computers. After all, their focus is slaughter, not software development. Getzel admitted in comments left on this blog to using two different computers in the plant, one in his department and one in his father's office. I would assume that they share the same subnet along with probably the computers for the company's most senior management, accounting / bookkeeping personnel, HR, and maybe marketing. I can only imagine that this is a relatively small percentage of their staff. Furthermore, I would assume that most of the staff that would be doing slaughter, not surfing the Internet and writing on blogs. I highly doubt that there are public access computers inside Agriprocessors with access to the Internet near the slaughter areas. Given that Agri supervisors limit even bathroom breaks, I can not possibly imagine any non-senior personnel having time and allowed use of computers to post on blogs. Shmarya did not post one piece of critical information, the times that "John" posted. If John's posts are in the middle of the day, John was acting as a representative of Agriprocessors. After all, would Agriprocessors let arbitrary employees post to blogs from the Agriprocessor offices while experiencing trouble with the feds during times that they are paid to work??? I highly doubt this.

My conclusion: The referenced posts may or may not have been written and/or posted by Getzel. They may have been written and/or by other senior personnel at Agriprocessors. However, I have no doubt that all of the above mentioned posts were coordinated with each other directly or indirectly and not spontaneous, isolated activities by lower level employees defending the honor of their management. Remember that Getzel stated that he wrote his own posts without assistance or coordination, in response to some of my earlier questions. At a minimum, there seems to be a coordinated effort by senior Agriprocessors personnel operating from the same computer subnet and posting during normal business hours.

One side note: My field of software research is artificial intelligence. There are several free open source software tools that compare writing styles of anonymous authors to statistically determine the likelihood of them being written by the same primary author. This field is called "authorship attribution." A friend of mine from years ago, Patrick Juola, is arguably the top US researcher in this area and has released open source software from the following site http://www.linguistlist.org/issues/19/19-2840.html
Shmarya, you may find this interesting, but I do not have time to look at their software and see how the writing styles of "John", "Peterson" and Getzel compare.

Best wishes to all (particularly members of the Rubashkin family who I have met or corresponded with on my personal email) for a healthy and prosperous New Year and a productive Yom Kippur full of Tshuvah.

Jerome

My hopefully objective thoughts on the above discussion as a Computer Science PhD and president of a software company, not necessarily an expert in networking. It was not clear whether the Agri IPs were static or dynamic. Getzel could in ten minutes get information from the Agriprocessor system administration or their ISP to demonstrate whether this IP is definitely static or dynamic. In the absence of this, I believe it is static. Their ISP is netINS and they have approximately 16065 IP's, making it statistically near 100% likelihood that the messages were posted from the same subnet with Agriprocessors (and 100% if it is static).

It is correct that externally accessible static IPs don't change per computer, but rather per gateway or firewall. However, depending how a computer is set up, other information (beyond just the IP address) can also be pulled from a given desktop computer or cell phone with computer capabilities. I can not imagine an organization such as Agriprocessors having hundreds of computers. After all, their focus is slaughter, not software development. Getzel admitted in comments left on this blog to using two different computers in the plant, one in his department and one in his father's office. I would assume that they share the same subnet along with probably the computers for the company's most senior management, accounting / bookkeeping personnel, HR, and maybe marketing. I can only imagine that this is a relatively small percentage of their staff. Furthermore, I would assume that most of the staff that would be doing slaughter, not surfing the Internet and writing on blogs. I highly doubt that there are public access computers inside Agriprocessors with access to the Internet near the slaughter areas. Given that Agri supervisors limit even bathroom breaks, I can not possibly imagine any non-senior personnel having time and allowed use of computers to post on blogs. Shmarya did not post one piece of critical information, the times that "John" posted. If John's posts are in the middle of the day, John was acting as a representative of Agriprocessors. After all, would Agriprocessors let arbitrary employees post to blogs from the Agriprocessor offices while experiencing trouble with the feds during times that they are paid to work??? I highly doubt this.

My conclusion: The referenced posts may or may not have been written and/or posted by Getzel. They may have been written and/or by other senior personnel at Agriprocessors. However, I have no doubt that all of the above mentioned posts were coordinated with each other directly or indirectly and not spontaneous, isolated activities by lower level employees defending the honor of their management. Remember that Getzel stated that he wrote his own posts without assistance or coordination, in response to some of my earlier questions. At a minimum, there seems to be a coordinated effort by senior Agriprocessors personnel operating from the same computer subnet and posting during normal business hours.

One side note: My field of software research is artificial intelligence. There are several free open source software tools that compare writing styles of anonymous authors to statistically determine the likelihood of them being written by the same primary author. This field is called "authorship attribution." A friend of mine from years ago, Patrick Juola, is arguably the top US researcher in this area and has released open source software from the following site http://www.linguistlist.org/issues/19/19-2840.html
Shmarya, you may find this interesting, but I do not have time to look at their software and see how the writing styles of "John", "Peterson" and Getzel compare.

Best wishes to all (particularly members of the Rubashkin family who I have met or corresponded with on my personal email) for a healthy and prosperous New Year and a productive Yom Kippur full of Tshuvah.

Jerome

getzel,
I believe Shmarya. I think you are a liar. Nobody that I know believes you or your family.
I don't believe your words on this website and I don't believe that the meat your family serves is Kosher.
I once read a kids story in Artscroll or Feldheim press about 2 butcher brothers that sold treyf meat on purpose for many years in Europe. In order to do teshuva the big Rabbi of the town told them they had to walk from town to town in rags for many years not eating anything except what they could beg. It was kind of like the Jain practice of "taking dishna". I think you and family should consider doing something similar to that to return your families good name.
Good luck on your future teshuva.

The Rubashkins would never tell a lie.

Never sell traif as kosher.

Never mistreat an animal.

Never mistreat a worker.

Never underpay a worker.

Never cheat them on a paycheck.

Never intimidate local butchers or restaurants.

Never hire a PR company to make fraudulent posts.

Never make fraudulent posts themselves.

Yeah Getzel. We believe everything you say.

Not.

++DSL does NOT mean static++

I believe STA does.

++There are several free open source software tools that compare writing styles of anonymous authors to statistically determine the likelihood of them being written by the same primary author.++

Heck - we do the same thing at the office with an Excel spreadsheet (core use is to perform Hofstede Cultural Dimension Analysis) to do the same thing.

That said - thanks for the link. If there's a tool that is better than what we use now.......

Shmarya and "me": I did not make the comment attributed to John above.

John: Please contact me. I would appreciate any assistance you could give that would help set the record straight.

Jerome: There are at least 50-100 people I can think of that have access to computers on Agriprocessors premises that could have posted here. I have not examined the IP listings, but I have also on occassion posted from the Jewish library as well as the public library, and even, on occasion, from a private home. It is possible that comment not made by me share IP addresses with comments made by myself.

Shmarya: ++You left comments here – which you admit – using fake names.++

I have not made an official analysis but most of your commenters use fake or unidentifiable screennames: Archie, "me," Rebitzman, critical_minyan, ex-employee, steve etc etc.

I left comments here 7 years ago on a non-Rubashkin topic, using a screenname. Your attempt to make that sound criminal and a support for your ridiculous sockpuppeting allegations is disgusting.

Incidentally, the "wonderful investigative work" of the AP consisted of calling me up and saying "Jeff Abbas tells me you were involved with PostvilleVoices, can I ask you a few questions?" There was no need for "investigative work" because I was not hiding.

Your pal Jeff (I believe he "sockpuppets" as SOP2) could have told you about my involvement back when the blog first went up, and a simple phone call to any of the people videoed would have been all it took if you wanted to play investigator.

I wonder if 5W has anything to do with this.

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Aerosmith frontman Steven Tyler on Wednesday sued unknown bloggers who the singer said impersonated him on the Web, writing about the death of his mother and other "intimate details" from his life. In a lawsuit filed in Los Angeles, Tyler, 60, said he didn't know the real names of those who have impersonated him and girlfriend Erin Brady on the Web, but he believes the same group was responsible for similar postings in 2007.

+++John: Please contact me. I would appreciate any assistance you could give that would help set the record straight+++

Perhaps John could also help OJ find the 'real killers' of Nicole SImpson and Ron Goldman?

I left comments here 7 years ago on a non-Rubashkin topic, using a screenname. Your attempt to make that sound criminal and a support for your ridiculous sockpuppeting allegations is disgusting.

The blog has only been around for about 4 1/2 years, Getzel.

WSC: I have spoken to John. Shmarya really put his foot in it this time.

Then it was 4 years ago. I was guessing the amount of years based on my memory that I posted from the Postville Yeshiva. I was assuming it was when I was a student there. It must have been when I was on the staff.

Previous two comments were me.

Dear Getzel
Regarding:
""""

Isa: Or like calling someones bluff and saying, you say you have something else, what is it? Oh, you can't tell? Aha..

Posted by: Getzel Rubashkin | October 04, 2008 at 10:46 PM
""""
IP addresses are like fingerprints either YOU or someone inside Agri management has used a computer that used that IP address.
You CERTAINLY do not allow just plain old line workers to have Internet access?

In the days of old time dial up, one would probably get a different IP address each time but your Internet Service provider DO keep logs who used what address , when.
Either you have DSL or cable Internet access therefore you almost have a static IP address.
I have cable and a static (almost ) IP address but I know how to do a reset and obtain a different address BUT it IS still can be traced to me.

Isa, as I mentioned there are probably 50-100 people withe access to the internet and the ability to comment wherever they want. To pin the blame on me simply because Shmarya wants to destroy anyone with the last name Rubashkin is ridiculous.

Why Would you take down my post?

Why Would you take down my post?

???????

Your post is on a different thread, Tom.

How many times has Getzel claimed he would stop posting here? And if his father told him to stop, isn't that a breach of kibud av?

Apologies to Marshall Mathers:

"The Real Getzel Rubashkin"

[Eminem]
May I have your attention please?
May I have your attention please?
Will the real Getzel Rubashkin please stand up?
I repeat, will the real Getzel Rubashkin please stand up?
We're gonna have a problem here..

Y'all act like you never seen an impersonator before
Jaws all on the floor like the muchachos, when ICE just burst in the door
and started whoopin Agri worse than before throwin around furniture looking for Meth(Ahh!)
It's the return of the... "Ah, wait, no way, you're kidding,
he didn't just say what I think he did, did he?"
And Lubinsky said... the raid was nothing you idiots!
A mad cow's dead, he's locked into Aaron's Best hamburger! (Ha-ha!)
Feminist women hate 5W's Torossian
[*vocal turntable: chigga chigga chigga*]
"Shmarya, I'm sick of him
Look at him, walkin around grabbin his you-know-what
Flippin the you-know-who," Yeah, I probably got a couple of screws up in my head loose
But no worse, than what's goin on in the OU boardroom
Sometimes, I wanna get on TV and just let loose, but can't
but it's cool for Pesach Lerner to beat a dead horse
Read his lips, his whiskered lips
And that's the message that we deliver to little kids
And expect them not to know what tarfus is
Of course they gonna know who Weissmandel is
By the time they hit fourth grade
They got the Discovery Channel don't they?
"We ain't nothing but mammals.." Well, some of us cannibals
who cut Agri workers open like cantaloupes [SLURP]
But if we can proclaim kosher dead animals and antelopes
then there's no reason that Lerner and Eliezrie can't elope
[*EWWW!*] But if you feel like I feel, I got the antidote
Genack wave your pantyhose, sing the chorus and it goes

[Chorus: Eminem (repeat 2X)]

'Cause I'm Getzel Rubashkin, yes I'm the real Getzel
All you other "Johns" & "Steves" are just imitating
So won't the real Slim Shady please stand up,
please stand up, please stand up?

[Eminem]
Engelmayer don't gotta cuss to sell his flacking;
well I do, so gei kack in yam you too!
You think I give a damn about Glatt?
Half of you critics can't even stomach me, let alone stand me
"But Getzel, what if you win, wouldn't it be weird?"
Why? So you guys could just lie to get me here?
So you can, sit me here next to Attorney Bernie
Shreck, Jim Martin better switch me chairs
so I can sit next to Uncle Milton and hear 'em argue over who screwed up first

I should download the FBI recordings on MP3
and show the whole world how we sold tainted meat [AHHH!]
I'm sick of you activist groups, all you do is annoy me
so I have been sent here to destroy you [bzzzt]
And there's a million of us just like me
who defend Agri like me; who just don't give a damn like me
who dress like me; walk with a pinched fedora like me
and just might be the next best thing but not quite me!

[Chorus]

[Eminem]
I'm like a head trip to listen to, cause I'm only givin you
things you joke about with your friends inside your living room
The only difference is I got the guts to say it
in front of y'all and I don't gotta be false or sugarcoated at all
I just get on the keyboard and spit it
and whether you like to admit it [*ERR*] I just **** it

It's funny; cause at the rate I'm goin when I'm thirty
I'll be the only person where Agri once stood arguing
Pinchin myself when I'm mouthin off about bloggers
And I'm ventin' but this whole bag of floating IPs isn't working
And every single person is a Getzel Rubashkin lurkin
He could be workin at Burger King, spittin on your onion rings
[*HACH*] Or in the parkin lot, circling
Screaming "Can you help a guy down out on his luck?"
So, will the real Getzel please stand up?
And put one of those fingers on each hand up?
And be proud to be outta your mind and outta control
and one more time, loud as you can, how does it go?

[Chorus 4X]

[Eminem]
Ha ha
Guess there's a Getzel Rubashkin in all of us
let's all stand up

I posted here at 12:00pm about a bunch of Psycho orthodox who beat up woman that they feel don't conform to their bs.

Every time I decide to stop commenting, someone attacks me personally, and I let myself get pulled back in.

Sorry for not lying down and letting you step all over me.

I posted here at 12:00pm about a bunch of Psycho orthodox who beat up woman that they feel don't conform to their bs.

No, Tom. You posted here:

http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2008/10/postville-chede.html#comment-133478267

Tom "Klein" the pretender is back.

He's obviously a Nazi posing as a disgruntled secular Jew. Vicky Polin has had the same problem on her blogs with some Nazis & Muslims putting on the same act.

Let me ask a question. There was a Black Hat guy on a United airlines flight several months ago. The plane was pushing back from the gate and the man was in the back davening. He refused to take his seat when the cabin attendent asked him. He was removed from the plane by the suthorities. He broke the law which say you must obey the flight crew. Was this Anti-semitism? There is nothing more to the story than that.

I spoke to John, as I mentioned. This post is false.

There was absolutely no lack of sensitivity on the part of the flight crew. The man interefered with airline crew. The plane was ready to push from the gate every other passenger was seated with their seatbelts on. This gentleman will be getting a federal probation sentence of 6 months. All that he deserves. ALL people are created equal. I am Jewish and tired of the orthodox treating other like inferior citizens. You should all learn that every person on this earth is equal. Orthodox Jews use the system to benfit them then cry and complain of anti-semitism when it suits them. How many orthodox Jews who are 18 have registered for the selective service? None I promise. Remember your Americans First

"Americans First"

Another sign that "Tom Klein" is a Nazi. They always crow about the "Israel firsters".

Give it up you piece of trailer trash.

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