BREAKING GETZEL RUBASHKIN OUTED BY AP and FAILED MESSIAH: Anonymously Started And Ran "Grassroots" Pro-Agriprocessors Blog Postville Voices, Hid Identity – Also Sockpuppeted On FailedMessiah.com

Getzel Rubashkin Sockpuppet Comments Found Defending Agriprocessors, NCSY-OU, and Baruch Lanner. Comments date back to early 2007.

First, the Astroturfing uncovered by the AP. In a wonderful piece of investigative work, the AP outed…

…Getzel Rubashkin, the son of "former" Agriprocessors CEO and current
Agriprocessors VP Rabbi Sholom Mordechai Rubashkin.

Getzel – who frequently commented here while claiming not be an an official representative of Agriprocessors, even though he spent hours during his workday commenting here and on other websites – and two friends anonymously created…the fraudulent "grassroots" blog Postville Voices.

There is one clear mistake in this AP report. Getzel claims to work at Agriprocessors "part time." Yet, when commenting on this blog Getzel clearly wrote that he was a manager at the company and was able to devote so much time to blog commenting because he was judged on how much work he completed each day, not how much time he actually spent working.

I think the truth is, Getzel Rubashkin was paid by Agriprocessors to do his blogging, just as it paid him to do his "managing."

Getzel also admitted in comments left on this blog to using two different computers in the plant, one in his department and one in his father's office. Another, anonymous commenter claiming to be an Agriprocessors employee wrote that Getzel used a computer in his father's office all day, almost every day.

I can tell you that when I tracked those comments a couple months ago, almost all of them came from the same IP address – presumably the one linked to Sholom M. Rubashkin.

But that is not all.

I can also tell you that several pro-Agriprocessors comments were left early in the Agriprocessors immigration raid scandal from that same IP address, meaning from that same computer. Those pro-Agriprocessors comments were left by "John." Not surprisingly, John's comments sound uncannily like Getzel Rubashkin.

The identifying information "John" left in that post leads to several other IPs with the same exact identifying information, most shared by "John" comments, as well. One of those comments, left on Yochanan Lavie's guest post about his days in NCSY under now-convicted child abuser Rabbi Baruch Lanner is especially noteworthy:

Our history? I think this was an issue of a few people, its not like mr.
Lanner was rehired by ncsy so everyone needs to be reminded of what he
did. Rather we must hope that he has been rehabilitated, and as JEWS
give him that chance to do teshuva.
Posted by: proudjew |January 09, 2008 at 10:14 AM

Here is Getzel as Getzel, followed by Getzel as John and Peterson. Please click to enlarge:

 

Here is Getzel as John, proudJew, Bitzy and Anon posting via Blackberry. Identifying information left as John here matches the same identifying information left as John above. Please click to enlarge:

These are only a few out of many examples.

There are also comments as "John" questioning the assertion that KAJ dropped its supervision of Agriprocessors due to kashrut reasons and otherwise defending Agriprocessors.

Some of you told me you were impressed, at least in the beginning, with Getzel's "honesty." My response was that you were being duped. I think you can see that now.

You know Getzel Rubashkin sockpuppeted on this website (and perhaps others) just like Agriprocessors' PR firm 5WPR. And you now know he Astroturfed, as well:

Blog on meat plant was astroturf, not grassroots

NIGEL DUARA

IOWA CITY, Iowa (AP) — As Agriprocessors Inc. was getting stung by criticism after a federal immigration raid snared hundreds of its workers, "a blog by people who live and work in Postville" appeared in its defense in May.

The blog defended the hiring practices of the plant in the small Iowa community, rebutting allegations in a federal affidavit and railing against the media, government and a labor union.

"We've had enough of every organization with an agenda cynically misrepresenting our town and workplace to further their own ends," PostvilleVoices.com said. It added that "there is one thing we do know _ the people that run Agriprocessors are good, decent, honest people and we trust that they have acceptable answers."

It was grassroots activism at its finest _ if you think the son of the plant CEO at the time and two of his friends count as grassroots activists.

The anonymous blog was an odd twist in the case against Agriprocessors _ since expanded to include child-labor charges _ as well as an example of an increasingly common practice known as astroturfing _ inventing grassroots support without the trouble of engaging a community.

"There's not a big penalty associated with doing this and being caught," said Herman B. Leonard, a professor at Harvard University's John F. Kennedy School of Government. "There's a potentially substantial benefit from being able to get out there with something that seems like a well-informed and active and energetic view that does not seem to be self-interested.

"So if you get away with it, it's a plus. If you don't, they say, 'Well, it's not too surprising.' "

Aiding the deception was a new development in astroturfing: Web hosts that protect a site owner's identity from anyone not holding a subpoena.

Dan Handy, the general manager of the Postville site's Web host, Bluehost.com, said the intention of his site is to stop spammers from stealing personal information from online registries. But he acknowledged there's also the benefit of complete anonymity.

Tracking such sites is difficult because of the anonymity, but other examples include:

_ Tennesseans Against Teen Drinking was promoted as a font of grassroots opposition to Internet sales of alcohol, but its Web site didn't mention that the group was backed by major alcohol lobbying firms that wanted to kill legislation allowing people to buy wine from other states.

_ Consumers Organized for Reliable Electricity ran a Web site warning about the consequences of an electricity rate freeze. It was later revealed the group was largely funded by Illinois electric utility company Commonwealth Edison.

The pro-Agriprocessors site was formed by 24-year-old Getzel Rubashkin and two friends not connected to the company. His father, Sholom Rubashkin, was until this summer the plant's CEO, and his grandfather, Aaron Rubashkin, owns the New York-based company.

The blog drew the suspicion of area residents, including a radio host. Getzel Rubashkin said in an interview with the host that he provided some technical assistance for the site, then acknowledged in an interview last month with The Associated Press that he and his friends created it.

Rubashkin, who lives in Postville and worked part time at Agriprocessors, said he didn't use plant money to work on the blog, but did film the interviews in the plant and had unfettered access to it and its employees.

Getzel Rubashkin said he and his friends started the Web site about two weeks after the May 12 raid, in which 389 workers were arrested on immigration charges. The hope, he said, was to counteract false media reports.

Rubashkin said that, in hindsight, he should have attached his name to the site, but that he wanted the claims to stand on their own merits.

"I do see now in retrospect that it could look deceptive," Rubashkin said. "That was not the intent."

He said he had been discouraged by management from maintaining the Web site and expressing views there.

"Humanity benefits from honest communication," Rubashkin said.

A call to Agriprocessors seeking comment was not returned Friday.

Aside from picking a Web host that provided anonymity, he said, he and his friends didn't try to fool anyone.

"No extra effort went into pretending that this was a neutral site or that the blogger didn't have any opinion," Rubashkin said.

At the same time the Web site was supposedly giving voice to Postville residents, the company became tangled up in an embarrassing situation in which a New York public relations firm paid by Agriprocessors had to apologize when an employee falsely used a rabbi's name to post Web comments about the plant and question its critics.

The rabbi, Morris Allen of Minnesota, threatened legal action but said Monday that the matter was resolved "in an agreed-upon manner." He declined to be specific.

Forms of astroturfing can pay off for companies and interest groups, and the practice is undoubtedly becoming more common, said Eric Dezenhall, who heads Dezenhall Resources, a Washington, D.C., corporate crisis-management firm.

Dezenhall recalls talking to a group representing a prospective client who spent time building blogs. He asked the lead manager whether the group "had a roomful of people who pretend that they're Mr. Joe Citizen on blogs all day."

"There was a lot of squirming," said Dezenhall, who has written two books on astroturfing.

He said he opted not to work with them out of concern that the practice would backfire. And that's something companies and groups should keep in mind before setting loose a roomful of bloggers-for-hire or launching a positive-spinning Web site, he said.

"If you're under fire for something, a wholesale front group causes the media, regulators, legislators, natural opponents to dig in, because it validates the notion that (the group is) doing something wrong," he said.

In the weeks since the site announced its final chapter, a new Web site has emerged, one that Getzel Rubashkin said he has nothing to do with.

Agrifacts.info clearly states that it is run by "friends, family and supporters of Agriprocessors and the Rubashkin family."

Comments

[857]

WHO CARES - GET A LIFE

[Archie Bunker]

If Getzel isn't behind Agri-"facts", then what about Mendel Rubashkin who recently promoted that propaganda website here?

I wonder if there is an electronic trail that leads to Chabad of Brandon, Florida or other computers like Chabad of Colonie, NY, Moishe Rubashkin controlled entities like the CHJCC or any of the Balkanys.

[Archie Bunker]

If anyone recalls, Getzel would always dodge questions over the issue of sockpuppeting by 5Wankers Torossian / Engelmayer.

Shmarya should compare notes with the JTA to see where else Getzel has been typing away.

[formely frum]

Archie Bunker

I see you believe in conspiracy theories

[Archie Bunker]

So if it's proven that Getzel has a Blackberry, didn't he categorically deny that is the case?

MIDVAR SHEKER TIRCHOK

[Archie Bunker]

FF,

"Uncle Milton" Balkany showed up a meeting to intimidate Rubashkin critics and several members & agents of the family have been active on blogs. You don't need to be paranoid to think there's more tham meets the eye here.

[steve]

Archie,

Rav Yudel asked that you e-mail him at kashrusy@aol.com.

[Shmarya]

steve –

Getzel sockpupeted you once. I'm adding that to the post now…

[Ex-Employee]

The Rubashkins will exploit ANY angle as long as it suits their needs.

[Shmarya]

So if it's proven that Getzel has a Blackberry, didn't he categorically deny that is the case?

MIDVAR SHEKER TIRCHOK

Perhaps the company owns the Blackberry and that's how Getzel "escapes" lying.

[rebitzman]

++didn't he categorically deny that is the case?++

Directly to me - yes he so denied.

[steve]

I do remember making that comment regarding the truck accident where the chickens fell off the truck. Getzel was arguing that there is no way that 9,000 chickens can fit on the truck, and I answered that maybe that's why they fell off, since the truck was overstuffed. I may have used my blackberry that day. The other comments under that IP are surely not mine, as those posts are clearly not my views and I wouldn't post under another name.

The "John" comment:

If KAJ did indeed leaave because of kashrus, as alleged based on a 'secret' letter, wouldn't it behoove them to shout this from the rooftops and if they have not, isn't this proof positive that it was NOT a kashrus issue?

Posted by: john | July 30, 2008 at 07:24 PM

That comment is clearly in line with Getzel's reasoning. The other comment by "anon" regarding the rabbis and the Mir was not mine either.

[Shmarya]

So RIM/Blackberry is shuffling IPs. What are the odds, though, that you and Getzel woulld briefly share one or that so many of these Blackberry IPs match Getzel?

I'd say very slim.

I'll delete that Blackberry section, though.

[steve]

Maybe upper case John is Getzel and lower case john is someone else.

[Shmarya]

Other data matches.

[rebitzman]

++I'd say very slim.++

I'd say you are a master of understatement.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

Shmarya, aside from my involvement in PostvilleVoices, which I have responded to over there, none of this other crap is true.

I do not own a Blackberry. I use a company phone and could not justify the extra cost of the data package.

I have never sockpuppeted. Ever.

I posted under a screenname on this site, maybe 7 years ago, for about a week. Otherwise all of my posting has been with my own name.

I don't know how IP assignments work on a large network of computers using the same internet access, but I most assuredly did not post the comments you are accusing me of posting.

I work part-time. Like it or not, that is the arrangement I made when I joined the company.

What I said about different computers was that I sit in different locations in the plant when working on different projects. As a matter of fact, I am currently sitting in the accounting section.

I have not lied or deceived. I have seen in the past few months that justice is dead and buried, but I will go on the record whether anyone will believe me or not.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

If the authors of the other comments would identify themselves, I would appreciate it.

Thank you steve.

[Shmarya]

Getzel –

The information matches. It isn't just IP addresses.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

I know it is not true. What other information matches?

[Shmarya]

Other identifying information.

You left comments defending the company but used the name John.

You also left other comments using other names.

[Shmarya]

I know it is not true.

Coming from the Astroturfer behind Postville Voices, that carries a lot of weight – not.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

That is a lie. What identifying information other than IP adresses?

[Getzel Rubashkin]

You can call it whatever you want. My involvement was common knowledge from day one, you can ask your buddy Jeff, and the posts and videos are the words of the people. I helped provide the platform.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

Steve already showed that your investigative methods are, shall we say.. faulty?

[Shmarya]

False.

You concealed your involvement, Getzel.

Past that, you lie with alarming regularity.

As for what other information, I'll share that with the AP or with the Forward or JTA.

I'm not posting it here so you can add another line of lies.

[Shmarya]

Steve already showed that your investigative methods are, shall we say.. faulty?

No, he did not.

Blackberry IPs are only a small part of the information I have on you, Getzel.

Past that, the odds of you and steve sharing an IP are astronomical.

That means something else happened with that one comment – something that is now being investigated.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

I did not conceal my involvement, and that is a documented fact.

I lie with alarming regularity now? Care to give an example that you are man enough to substantiate?

[me]

Neutral comment---
Just some background about those IP's they do not change per computer rather per gateway, so a large company can have 100's of computers behind one gateway (thats just how it works).
RIM devices all share one or two gateways, so anyone posting with a Blackberry would have the same IP.
AOL is also all behind one gateway, so any AOL users would share an IP address.

Just FYI.

[Shmarya]

I did not conceal my involvement, and that is a documented fact.

I lie with alarming regularity now? Care to give an example that you are man enough to substantiate?

You just did it again.

[Shmarya]

RIM devices all share one or two gateways, so anyone posting with a Blackberry would have the same IP.

RIM has a huge # of IPs, not one or two. And I get many comments from people using Blackberrys – but only those I originally posted matched Getzel.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

Listen, clown. I know the truth. You cannot prove something that did not happen.

If the IP's match another commenter, it is either caused by the way IP's are assigned by the network or some other technical reason.

I don't know of any other identifying information that would be shared by commenting on a blog, but the information will reflect the fact that you are accusing me falsely. (Surprise, surprise)

Again, I DO NOT OWN A BLACKBERRY.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

++I did not conceal my involvement, and that is a documented fact.

I lie with alarming regularity now? Care to give an example that you are man enough to substantiate?

You just did it again.++

Whoa, there was a telling mark of maturity. You are an irresponsible child who uses his access to the internet to smear people without regard to truth or the consequences of your words.

[Isa]

Regarding the stupid comment
""That is a lie. What identifying information other than IP adresses?""

It is ALMOST like someone saying "That is a lie. What identifying information other than fingerprints?"

[Shmarya]

Listen, Getzel – you're far from honest, that's clear.

You don't own a Blackberry? Does the company own one you might use? Your wife? Your brother or father or friend?

Please.

Past that, the comments posted as jpgs above are NOT Blackberry IPs.

Got that, Getzel, er, John?

[Getzel Rubashkin]

Isa: Or like calling someones bluff and saying, you say you have something else, what is it? Oh, you can't tell? Aha..

[steve]

The Peterson posts and the upper case John posts were from the same IP as a Getzel Rubashkin post. Also, the style of John and Peterson are very similar to Getzel's. Notice that once he started posting as himself, John and Peterson stopped posting. If Getzel never used a blackberry to post, then how did John and Peterson get access to your computer? Perhaps these are other Agri employess, perhaps Chaim Abrahams or Heshey, or perhaps Getzel's dad???

[Getzel Rubashkin]

SHmarya, your desire that I be deviously lying does not make it so.

I HAVE NEVER SENT ANY INFORMATION USING A BLACKBERRY. As a matter of fact, I have never done anything with a Blackberry other than turn one over in my hands and say "cool."

The IPs posted above will not show that I posted comments I did not post. If the commenter above is correct, anyone posting from Agriprocessors would or could have the same IP address.

Don't let that slow down the smear machine though.

[rebitzman]

++Past that, the odds of you and steve sharing an IP are astronomical.++

Current IP protocols allow for 4,294,672,296 combinations.

[me]

RIM has a huge # of IPs, not one or two. And I get many comments from people using Blackberrys – but only those I originally posted matched Getzel.

RIM owns exactly 3825 ip's, most are not used. Each carrier (ATT, Verizon, etc...) gets just one or two.

also
Unless you have the ISP's IP to MAC assigment log, the IP's mean nothing. Its a clue but not hard evidence.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

Thank you "me." I am uninformed on the technical details but I appreciate the voice in the wilderness.

[State of Postville]

Getzel, you may not own a blackberry but I am sure that Agriprocessors does and lets you use it.

[me]

Past that, the comments posted as jpgs above are NOT Blackberry IPs.

um, yes they are.

[me]

um, yes they are.
rather 216.9.250.97 is.

[me]

OK, I just read through the JPGS above...
sorry for the mutiple comments to myself.

In a small ISP like netINS IP assignments will overlap very often actually, so while I cannot say for sure but it can happen that many visitors to this site will share an IP.
They are all certainly in or around postville, however.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

SOP: I have never used a Blackberry in my life.

[Shmarya]

um, yes they are.
rather 216.9.250.97 is.

And the first is not.

John – who has the same IP as Getzel in the first series above, posts using a Blackberry in the second.

The other data matches the first John.

John stopped using Getzel's static Agriprocessors IP as soon as Getzel began posting using his own name.

[me]

It is ALMOST like someone saying "That is a lie. What identifying information other than fingerprints?
also no, while its sounds like evidence, IPs are not identifying unless static or used multiple time in a short period of time. (< 24hrs)

OK, enough. I go to zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[Shmarya]

Continuing my above comment, it is a remarkable coincidence that an IP coming from inside Agriprocessors would be used by "John" and then be taken over by Getzel and, when that "takeover" happens. John stops posting.

We see from his comments that John is an Orthodox Jew, he works for Agri, and he's inside the company.

His writing style matches Getzel's.

And john later uses a Blackberry to comment.

[Shmarya]

also no, while its sounds like evidence, IPs are not identifying unless static or used multiple time in a short period of time. (< 24hrs)

But we have exactly that here. Getzel left almost 50 comments per day some days using that same IP.