BREAKING! Reform Rabbis Endorse Hechsher Tzedek

They're calling it an "historic move." Here's the money quote:

“This is not about Conservative or Reform or Orthodox Judaism,” said Dr. Raymond Goldstein, international president of United Synagogue. “It is about ethics. We are commanded to act ethically and the Hechsher Tzedek helps us do that.”

The entire press release follows:

Reform Rabbis Endorse Hekhsher Tzedek Pledge to Promote Ethical Kosher Initiative, Work Together with Conservative Rabbis and Synagogues
"Conservative Judaism Has Sparked a Community-Wide Discussion
About Keeping Kosher in the 21st Century,” States Rabbinical Assembly President, Rabbi Jeffrey Wohlberg

September 3, 2008 (New York, NY) – In an historic move, the board of trustees of the Central Conference of American Rabbis issued a resolution yesterday that endorses and promotes Hekhsher Tzedek, the new ethical kashrut certification from the Rabbinical Assembly and the United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism.

On July 31, Hekhsher Tzedek published its working guidelines for the kosher food industry. The endorsement of the Reform rabbinate one month later is especially noteworthy because keeping kosher has not been on Reform Judaism’s agenda although it is a central tenet of Conservative and Orthodox Judaism. The endorsement is both a striking gesture of fellowship towards another denomination and a bold, first-time embrace of a traditional hallmark of Jewish observance.

“It is clear that Conservative Judaism has sparked a community-wide discussion about keeping kosher in the 21st Century,” stated RA president, Rabbi Jeffrey Wohlberg, rabbi emeritus of Adas Israel in Washington, DC. “Keeping kosher is a central value of being Jewish and Hekhsher Tzedek weds the ethics with the ritual. I am greatly moved by the support of my Reform colleagues and continue to encourage every rabbi regardless of denomination to endorse, support and promote this important effort.”

“This is not about Conservative or Reform or Orthodox Judaism,” said Dr. Raymond Goldstein, international president of United Synagogue. “It is about ethics. We are commanded to act ethically and the Hechsher Tzedek helps us do that.”

In their resolution, the Reform rabbis applaud the RA and United Synagogue “for their efforts to enfold this ethical dimension into their understanding of what constitutes the appropriate preparation of food through their Hekhsher Tzedek initiative,” and pledge to “explore means by which it can work cooperatively with the Rabbinical Assembly and the United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism in efforts to establish and promote a certification established by the Hekhsher Tzedek Commission, which is consistent with our understanding of Jewish values and justice.”

The resolution further encourages Reform Jews and others “to consider the guidelines to be established by the Hekhsher Tzedek Commission and to uphold ethical guidelines in their dietary practices, as in all areas of life.” The complete text of the resolution appears below.

Hekhsher Tzedek has grabbed nationwide attention with its assertion that keeping kosher is not only a ritual imperitive but an ethical necessity. Rabbi Michael Siegel, co-chair of the Hekhsher Tzedek commission has called it “one of the most exciting and timely projects in contemporary Jewish life.”

Hekhsher Tzedek is non-denominational and intends to coexist with other rabbinic certifications of kashrut, typically administered by Orthodox rabbis. The Hekhsher Tzedek commission envisions its certification appearing alongside such established kashrut symbols as OU, OK, Star-K, KSA and Kof-K, to name a few.

The prospect of such double certification is made possible by the fact Hekhsher Tzedek has nothing to do with methods of slaughter or other conditions that might make a food technically kosher. Instead, the focus of the initiative is on such matters as employee health, safety and training; wages and benefits; the environmental impact of the company; corporate transparency and product development, among others.

The commission is optimistic that the concept of kosher foods produced by companies that have attained this “God Housekeeping Seal” will have tremendous consumer appeal and the resolution of the CCAR is a positive indication of the initiative’s marketability.

Within the Conservative movement, the effort has won praise and support and several institutions have announced their own programs to promote the observance of Hekhsher Tzedek. Last week, letters were sent to the rabbis and synagogue presidents of the Conservative movement, announcing a multi-pronged joint undertaking to promote Hekhsher Tzedek, spearheaded by the RA and United Synagogue. Some measures include forming local Hekhsher Tzedek committees; suggesting that rabbis preach about the effort on the High Holidays and throughout the year; promoting teaching material on the importance of ethics in business; drafting and signing resolutions in support of the program and educating local kosher food merchants about the importance of buying food from companies that are ethically sound; to name a few.

In addition, the websites of the RA and United Synagogue have started posted educational and programming material, including text study and rabbinic papers prepared by scholars. This material will go soon go live on www.hekhshertzedek.org and is currently available at www.rabbinicalassembly.org and www.uscj.org.

Yet, Hekhsher Tzedek has also drawn criticism from some Orthodox Jewish leaders who have accused the initiative as being divisive. Yesterday’s surprise endorsement by the CCAR -- coupled with friendly conversations with individual Orthodox rabbis -- proves that just the opposite is true, observed Rabbi Morris Allen, the founder of Hekhsher Tzedek.

“The CCAR’s resolution is a big victory for kashrut, elevating it to the point where the Reform movement is thinking seriously about it,” said Rabbi Morris Allen. “Hekhsher Tzedek transcends denomination and is proof that all the critics who said that it is divisive are completely wrong. Hekhsher Tzedek is bringing Jews together because it is a kiddush Hashem – sanctification of the Lord’s name. This is historic. Kashrut is at the heart of who we are as Jews.”

Rabbi Allen sees Hekhsher Tzedek as a sign that the Conservative movement is uniquely possessed of the power to address the relevant and timely issues of the day. With its adherence to traditional observance in a context that also addresses the reality of contemporary life, Conservative Judaism has produced the most important and influential Jewish leaders of the day.

Though part of the publicity garnered by Hekhsher Tzedek arose from its proactive response to the federal raid on the Agriprocessors meat processing plant in Postville, Iowa this past May – when nearly 400 undocumented workers were arrested, charges of worker abuse were levelled and the RA and United Synagogue called for a boycott-less boycott of meat manufactured by the Rubashkin’s company -- the initiative s wholly independently of that situation and any of the charges being leveled against the company.

The Hekhsher Tzedek commission released its working guidelines this summer and is currently in the process of marketing itself to food companies. Now that the program’s popular appeal is clear, the next phase is for food companies to seek to earn the Hekhsher Tzedek label on their products.

Rabbi Wohlberg is energized by the support Hekhsher Tzedek has enjoyed, seeing the initiative as potentially attractive to companies well beyond the food industry. “While others have undertaken the effort to work towards creating a friendly, safe or fair work environment, we are the first group to take our inspiration from Jewish teachings. Hekhsher Tzedek is about bridging the gap between ritual observance and social justice.”

ABOUT THE RABBINICAL ASSEMBLY

Founded in 1901, the Rabbinical Assembly is the international association of Conservative rabbis. The Assembly actively promotes the cause of Conservative Judaism, publishes learned texts, prayer-books and works of Jewish interest, and administers the work of the Committee on Jewish Law and Standards for the Conservative movement.

Rabbis of the assembly serve throughout the world in congregations, on campus, as educators, hospital and military chaplains, teachers of Judaica and officers of communal service organizations. Its membership spans over 20 countries and numbers 1600 rabbis.

ABOUT THE UNITED SYNAGOGUE OF CONSERVATIVE JUDAISM
United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism represents and supports the synagogues of the Conservative movement in North America. We work with lay leaders and Jewish professionals on the national, regional, and grassroots levels to teach, inspire, and motivate Conservative Jews to live lives increasingly filled with Jewish learning, ethical behavior, spirituality, and mitzvot.


KASHRUT & HEKHSHER TZEDEK
Adopted by the Board of Trustees - August 2008
Central Conference of American Rabbis
Background

Over the past several years, the use of undocumented laborers in several industries has given rise to a growing number of legal, social and ethical problems. Those who employ individuals who have entered this country illegally too often take cruel and inhumane advantage of the legal status of these employees. Abusive employment practices may include paying such workers less than minimum wage; denying them benefits typically provided in the industry; requiring them to work in conditions that violate civil and criminal law; or, in far too many instances, subjecting them to physical, sexual, and emotional abuse. Painfully for the Jewish community, it has come to light that certain kosher meat processors may be numbered among such abusive employers. recent allegations about the business practices of the kosher meat processing plant in Postville, Iowa – including, but not limited to, the abusive and unethical treatment of workers, the inhumane treatment of animals, and the flouting of American law – are particularly distressing.

Those who produce kosher meat are engaged in sacred work and therefore are expected to adhere to the highest standards and values of Jewish tradition. Those who keep Kosher, including the growing number of Reform Jews who are embracing the observance of kashrut, should not be forced to choose between their ritual observance and their ethical values.

Jewish law and values impose ethical guidelines governing labor, business practices and the treatment of animals. The Torah repeatedly calls upon us to deal justly with the laborer and the stranger in our midst. The Central Conference of American Rabbis has a long history speaking out against abusive labor practices, going back at least as far as its 1918 resolutions urging the abolition of child labor, the institution of a fair minimum wage and workman’s compensation for industrial accidents and occupational diseases. Tza’ar ba’alei Hayyim, concern for animals’ pain, is a Jewish principal enshrined in Torah and Talmud (e.g., B. Shabbat 128b).

The Rabbinical Assembly of Conservative Judaism and the United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism have established a Hekhsher Tzedek Commission, the purpose of which is to create an additional certification for Kosher products taking into account ethical considerations in addition to ritual laws. Such considerations will include how kosher meat processing companies conduct their businesses, particularly with regard to treatment of workers, health and safety, animal welfare and environmental impact.

THEREFORE, be it resolved that the Central Conference of American Rabbis:
Adjures all those who are engaged in the sacred work of producing kosher meat to conduct their business according to the highest Jewish ethical standards as well as ritual standards;

Applauds the Rabbinical Assembly and the United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism for their efforts to enfold this ethical dimension into their understanding of what constitutes the appropriate preparation of food through their Hekhsher Tzedek initiative;

Will explore means by which it can work cooperatively with the Rabbinical Assembly and the United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism in efforts to establish and promote a certification established by the Hekhsher Tzedek Commission, which is consistent with our understanding of Jewish values and justice; and
Encourages Reform Jews and others, whether or not they have elected to observe kashrut, to consider the guidelines to be established by the Hekhsher Tzedek Commission and to uphold ethical guidelines in their dietary practices, as in all areas of life.

Comments

[Jason]

The Orthodox community's response to Hechsher Tzedek is unconscionable. HT does not impose any requirements on anyone, nor does it change or affect the kashrut of food. It merely says that for those who care about the ethical treatment of workers and animals (it is unbelievable that this is not a concern of everyone's, but what can you do), you now have a way to choose which food you feel comfortable consuming and which companies you feel comfortable supporting. It seems like a no-brainer, yet the reaction from some in the Orthodox community is mind-boggling.

I have been affiliated with Orthodox all my life, but on the basis of this issue, as well as several others, I am finally considering severing my ties to the Orthodox community once and for all.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Yashar koach to the Reform rabbis. I have my disagreements with their ideology, but here they did the right thing. Unfortunately, this makes it less likely that moderate Orthodox will follow, even those inclined to agree with HTz, because of pressure from the Ortho right.

Orthodox Judaism has become "not-them-ism;" them meaning Gentiles or non-Orthodox Jews. In the past, they were able to make common cause with others, for things like Israel, etc. What a shame.

[Paul Freedman]

well yeah, no surprise there, this is *REFORM* who never came across a cliche about justice they couldn't expiate over in rhapsodic length--the tragedy for the Rubashkin family management is, I would think, dovka in that one way to avoid endless philosophical pereginations with all and sundry over HT is to institutionally separate from AgriP--btw this is a mission statement by UK Reform vis a vis kashrus from an outreach website--I think the long and short is that my normative apikores practice of avoiding treif and thinking, by gosh, there are Jews keeping more mitzva for sure than I do places me in the very center of Reform life or maybe not, it's kind of vaprous:

"Reform Judaism is not so prescriptive as to be able to answer your questions with simple yeses or nos. Reform Jews, whether by birth or by choice, would be taught about Kashrut, the laws of it and the essence and understanding of it. They would then be expected to make personal choices about the religious life they lead. For some that may be choosing to only eat kosher meat or in kosher restaurants, for others looking at a menu and remembering there are things on it that as a Jew they don't eat is more of a reminder for them. Reform Jews are also expected to lead ethical and moral lives and so if they have undertaken solemn vows of marriage of course they would be expected to respect the laws of marriage and the essence of those laws. However it is also understood that they are adults living in 21st century Britain and live their lives accordingly. The fact that we live among people of other religions means that we may well find ourselves in their places of worship at important times in their lives. Although joining in with liturgy which goes against the Jewish faith would be inappropriate, attending important events in other people's places of worship would not be misconstrued as worship and is perfectly acceptable. "

[critical_minyan]

question:
can the ht seal appear on non-kosher meat also or only on kosher meat?

[Yochanan Lavie]

Jason:

Consider the Union for Traditional Judaism. Their website is www.utj.org.

They also sponsor the Kosher Nexus. I found this article there:

http://www.koshernexus.org/index.php?s=tzedek&submit=Go

(Especially post numbers 1120, 1102.)

Although originally started by traditionalist conservative Jews, UTJ has modern Orthodox rabbis and shuls in its affiliation now.

[state of the Jews]

HT can only appear on products which already carry Hechsher from a recognized, mainstream, kosher certifying organization. So Uncle Billy Bob's Kosher Seal of Approval and Beef Jerky Rating Service would not be acceptable.

[Paul Freedman]

imo the sincerity with which observers fail to discern even a hint of denominational cynicism in a pronouncement beginning "This isn't about..." is very sweet. Some might be tempted to believe that it such cases it is *always* about....

[Paul Freedman]

state, the HT's commitment to prior reocgnized certification was confirmed to me by their staff

[state of the Jews]

Keep in mind there are over 300 separate hechsherim in the US (which should put to rest the idea that there is only one standard for Kashrut and everyone agrees on the interpretation of the Shulchan Aruch).

[Jason]

Thanks Yochanan. I have heard about UTJ and find it compelling. Unfortunately I can't tell what shuls are affiliated, if any, outside of teaneck. I live in the area, but not within walking distance, so I'd likely have to move to really become a member.

[rebitzman]

++The Orthodox community's response to Hechsher Tzedek is unconscionable.++

Not really - I personally never actually expected (or expect) them to embrace it, but will have to accept it (HT - or an Orthodox) version) once a (as in ONE) major hecksher embraces it.

And several are engaged in negotiations now.

[Jason]

Rebitzman, whether or not you expected them to embrace it, or whether they end up accepting it as a result of being dragged along by a major hechsher, the attitude of the so-called leadership as well as the lay people is distressing, even if not surprising. They purposely obstruct anything proposed by non-Orthodox or non-establishment Orthodox. It is all about power and influence, and they can't stand it if they think theirs is slipping away.

[Rachel Batya]

--Some might be tempted to believe that it such cases it is *always* about....--

Paul, your denominational cynicism is showing. Sometimes, when people say, "This isn't about..." they are actually attempting to step out of the denominational warfare and say (and do) something useful. (At least, when I say it, that's my intention.) I think that's what the good rabbi was trying to get across.

[Rachel Batya]

--Orthodox Judaism has become "not-them-ism;" them meaning Gentiles or non-Orthodox Jews.--

I agree, and I would extend it further to say that all the branches have become "not-them-ism." I grew up Reform, and one of the primary things I learned was that we were NOT ORTHODOX. I've belonged to Conservative shuls where it was very important for people to repeat like a mantra "we are NOT REFORM."

These are the reasons I don't belong to a shul. But I think it's great that Reform is going across denominational lines, at least this time. I've seen individuals reach across these lines time and time again, but institutions rarely do.

[Nigritude Ultramarine]

It is all about power and influence, and they can't stand it if they think theirs is slipping away.

The O community, in certain sectors, doesn't seem to be very secure in its Judaism.

++They purposely obstruct anything proposed by non-Orthodox or non-establishment Orthodox. It is all about power and influence, and they can't stand it if they think theirs is slipping away.++

Could it possibly be as well that they disagree with the approach to Judiasm taken by the more liberal arms - so don't trust their rulings?

[rebitzman]

++These are the reasons I don't belong to a shul.++

2 things

1. Post above is mine - forgot to sign.

2. The above quote of yours is simply an excuse. You are free to use it, but don't expect other to buy it.

++"we are NOT REFORM." ++

Odd - I've been Conservative all my life - and I've never heard anything like this.

[Paul Freedman]

rebitzman, my nephew as a Jewish youth leader attended a seminar where a Reform lecturer went on about Conservative "fetish" about mitzvot --when a complaint was lodged afterward it was explained via an apology that had the lecturer known, of course, that attendees other than Reform/Reconstruction & leftwards were in the audience he would, naturally, have used different words.

My nephew somehow remained unconvinced that this was apology got to the point...

[Noclue]

Sure.

But let them demand good working conditions, including full health insurance, for the treif meat that they allow their congregants eat. And also for the Nike shoes etc. made in China.

Better yet,lets make a deal. The orthodox support the Hechsher tsedek and their constituency eats only truly kosher meat and other food. And also send their children to day schools and not work on Shabbot.

Good deal all around!

[Yochanan Lavie]

Jason: Contact the UTJ and see who is affiliated. (One of the 2 remaining Orthodox shuls in Jersey City is now a UTJ shul.) Chovevi Torah is not bad, either, except I don't like how Uri and Rabbi Take-no-Riskin caved on Rubbishcan. I think there is a Chovevi Torah shul in Engelwood.

Rachel: Although I don't always agree with you, I enjoy reading your posts. They're very thoughtful. I can't claim credit for the phrase "not-them-ism." A Conservative friend of mine coined it to describe why some rightwing Orthodox won't celebrate Thanksgiving (although MO usually do, and Rubbishcan is happy to flog their turkeys for the holiday).

Rebbitzman: Your experience may not be the same as Rachel's. Personally, I have belonged to Conservative shuls in the past, and still visit them occasionally. Some of the people are very positive, and others make a religion of Ortho-bashing. It's the kind of thing that turns some people off.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Noclue: An increasing number of Conservative Jews are keeping kosher and sending their kids to day school: both Conservative Solomon Schecter and Modern Orthodox schools. Yes, we should focus on both bain adam l'makom as well as bain adam l'chaveiro. It's a package deal. On the other hand, something is better than nothing.

I may not have coined the phrase "not-themism," but I think the expression "all-or-nothingism" is mine.

[rebitzman]

++my nephew as a Jewish youth leader attended a seminar where a Reform lecturer went on about Conservative "fetish" about mitzvot++

And?

I've never claimed that one branch owned ALL the assholes.

[rebitzman]

++I may not have coined the phrase "not-themism," ++

maybe not - but I appreciate you sharing it.

[Archie Bunker]

What a joke. Considering that about 95% of the Reform eat treif exclusively, maybe they should focus on all the abuses at Smithfield & Pilgrim's Pride.

I'm surprised these Central Conference of American Pork-eating "Rabbis" were able to take their focus away for a few moments from bashing Christian supporters of Israel and other Republicans.

[Rachel Batya]

++These are the reasons I don't belong to a shul.++

--The above quote of yours is simply an excuse. You are free to use it, but don't expect others to buy it.--

Rebitzman, are you having a bad day? This is simply motzi shem ra. How can you say this when you don't even know me?

It's *exactly* the reason I don't belong to a shul. I'm sick of the cheerleading, I'm sick of being defined by what we're not, and I'm sick of having to choose a battle line and defend it. I practice Judaism--not Orthodox Judaism, not Conservative Judaism, not Reform Judaism--but Judaism, every day, now and for the rest of my life. And I do so to keep alive my relationship with The One Above and find the energy to make it through the difficulties of life.

If you're happy in a shul, wonderful. To each his own.

And by the way, in the C shul I belonged to people spent an awful lot of time defending themselves as not Reform on the one hand, and not Orthodox on the other. It was a constant, unremitting conflict and it very nearly destroyed the shul--and my desire to practice Judaism. The only thing that saved yiddishkeit for me was my own tenacity and the help of G-d.

[rebitzman]

++How can you say this when you don't even know me? ++

Because the excuse of "THEY made me stay away because...." is rather thin - and not overly original.

Excuses to bow out are easy - being involved is hard.

Just had a woman return to the shul after 25 years. She left because her brother demanded she do so (he just died). His issue? The sanctuary (in his opinion) wasn't pointing EXACTLY in the correct direction (after a remodel).

She cries about the wasted years away from friends.

You will never convince me that EVERYONE in the shul behaved as you describe - because you and I know better.

You made a choice, Rachel. But you're offering excuses to justify - excuses that simply don't pass muster.

[rebitzman]

++I'm surprised these Central Conference of American Pork-eating "Rabbis" were able to take their focus away for a few moments from bashing Christian supporters of Israel and other Republicans.++

I, on the other hand, have been anxiously awaiting your arrival into this thread. So glad you didn't disappoint.

Your ability to slander everyone and anyone who doesn't agree with you is so damned predictable, that in predicting to my wife when you'd arrive and what you'd say in this discussion - I only missed the time.

And I only missed THAT by about 30 minutes.

[Hyim Ber]

> Conservative Judaism has produced the most important and influential Jewish leaders of the day.

Did anyone else notice this doozy in the press release?

[rebitzman]

++> Conservative Judaism has produced the most important and influential Jewish leaders of the day.

Did anyone else notice this doozy in the press release?++

I'm a humble man - I asked them NOT to use my name.

[Jake]

Per the Conservative Movements own research only 15% of Consevative Jews obseve kashrut in their own homes. ( Their plates will go to heaven. )

Jewish morals vis avis workers come from torah and halacha. In so much as the Reformed Movement reject the validity of halacha and the divinity of Torah I don't know what moral system rhey will follow.

And yes shame on the Ortodox Rabbinate for doing nothing!!!!!

[Anonymous]

What a joke. Considering that about 95% of the Reform eat treif exclusively, maybe they should focus on all the abuses at Smithfield & Pilgrim's Pride.

I'm surprised these Central Conference of American Pork-eating "Rabbis" were able to take their focus away for a few moments from bashing Christian supporters of Israel and other Republicans.

Posted by: Archie Bunker

Archie's shit continues to dribble out of his mouth and down his pants.

Did you ever think of going into kiruv?

Maybe if you weren't wearing smelly depends.

[Jason]

Whether Conservative or Reform keep kosher or not is really not relevant for this discussion. No one is trying to say that if a product doesn't contain a HT seal then it is not kosher. They are merely trying to offer people who do care about ethics and morals a way to identify products that meet their standards.

No one -- not Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, Reconstructionist, etc. -- has a monopoly on righteousness or hypocrisy. We should accept mussar from whatever the source. And Archie, this is not about politics either. It is about the market demanding a certain "product" and the market responding. Surely a good conservative (small c) such as yourself can understand that.

[michael ben drosai]

what's next - the reform and conservs saying that they keep Hechsher Tzedek in their homes! (but they "eat out")

[Rachel Batya]

Rebitzman--Who are you to judge me? And who are you to do it in public, and impugn my motives? You have no idea of how long I stay in fighting, in all kinds of situations, long after everyone else has said, "Rachel, let go. Move on. You're banging your head against a wall."

Yes, I made a choice and I'm not complaining about my choice. I'm very happy making my home and my family the center of my Jewish life, and I'm very happy being in my community, as a very visible Jew, doing mitzvot.

Far from offering excuses, I'm discussing my reasons for why shuls are not the right place for me. I'm not saying shuls are bad and all the people in them act badly. Of course not. I'm thrilled if they work for other people. I simply can't stay clear on the mission statement in the midst of all the fighting. That's me, and you've got no call to judge my sincerity, my choices, or the way I serve G-d.

Rebitzman, I read much of what you post, and while I often agree with the content, I often feel that you are way too hard on people. This is certainly one of those times.

[rebitzman]

++Who are you to judge me? And who are you to do it in public,++

Judgment? Hardly.

But it does appear that I have hit a nerve.

++I'm discussing my reasons for why shuls are not the right place for me. ++

Methinks the lady doth protest a bit too much.

You painted ALL shul life with your perceptions of life in one shul. That's not a reason - that is an excuse.

++I often feel that you are way too hard on people++

Who is being judgmental?

From your body of posts it seems you feel that when it comes to "judging" the Charadim - it's no hold barred, but with everyone else it's kid gloves.

[sage]

Please, let's try to stop the back to back ad hominems cease and realize that now, in the Jewish Body Politic, the vote for ethical business practices is 2 for and 1 against.

I believe that the majority rules.

[Paul Freedman]

Rachel: good for you. sage, that's if the Jewish body politic depended upon Reform for its kosher goods (and not just ethical supervision of kosher industry) they'd come up short--if it weren't for the Orthodox in today's America would there be any kosher business practices, any business to criticize?

[steve]

Why is Hechsher Tzedek so controversial? Why was it "banned" by the Agudath Israel? The answer is pure POLITICS. Simply because it was the idea of Conservative Jews and it is supported by Reform Jews, the Agudah and their cronies oppose it. The reason they give? It's not economically practical! What a joke! Pesach hotels are proper and economically practical, but a tzedek hechsher is not? They didn't only oppose it, they BANNED it. They banned tzedek, justice. In this week's parsha, hashem commands us "Tzedek Tzedek Tirdof", to pursue justice. The Agudah translates the word "Tirdof" to mean the opposite, to run away from justice. In their bible it reads, "Kesef Kesef Tirdof" (with apologies to Yochanan). If the Conservative Jews or Reform Jews would come out with a statement tomorrow against thievery, the Agudah will protest. Just look what happened when the RCA was the first to issue a proclamation against child molesters. The Agudah till this day refuses to follow suit. It's like when hashem gave the Torah, he offered it first to the goyim. Their response was that they cannot accept it, since it states "do not kill, do not steal, do not commit adultery", and the goyim thrive on murder, thievery and adultery. Similarly, the Agudah cannot accept proclamations against child molestation, thievery and unethical business practices, since an overwhelming number of their rebbes are child molesters, and an overwhelming number of their congregants are crooks. Add to that, the largest supplier of supposedly kosher meat, that they firmly support, is involved in all sorts of crime and mischief, how can they support a "Tzedek" movement?

[sage]

But more Reform Jews might start to buy more kosher meat, etc. with the Hechsher Tzedek in place than without.

Given that Rubashkin will be going down, the post-Rubashkin era will become a challenging one for the OU, etc.

Either they will, also, support the Hechsher Tzedek, or slowly become irrelevant.

[steve]

That should read the goyim "at that time" thrived on murder, thievery and adultery.

[Archie Bunker]

We know that "Anonymous", the potty mouthed Lubavitcher is ssssslow to grasp things, so we will provide a little extra clarification.

I only criticized the so called "rabbis" of the Reform movement, not the rank & file. The leadership is educated enough to know that what they are doing is wrong but don't let me get in the way of their abusive power trip and gluttonous indulgence of pork as they mislead the masses.

[Archie Bunker]

Steve, the Agudah is also corrupt. It doesn't change the fact that the Reform & Conservative are abunch of hypocrites.

But like Rabbi Shain points out, at least they may stop Rubashkin from cheating on weights as is alleged.

[steve]

Archie,

Focus on the issues at hand. It doesn't matter who came up with the idea. If it's a good idea, it should be adopted. The issue of the legitimacy of Conservative and Reform Judaism is a totally separate debate.

[Rachel Batya]

I once expressed amazement to an Orthodox rabbi friend of mine that we could disagree on so many things and yet still have such respect for each other. He is quite a bit to the right, and I am a pretty mainstream liberal, so our friendship somewhat mystified me. He said, "You're only surprised because you're looking at the differences. On everything of importance, we agree completely."

I sure wish he were running this show.

[Paul Freedman]

steve, I think that Shmarya's highlighting of the Reform "money quote" invited some debate as to Reform's reasons for "jumping on the bandwagon"--I hadn't realized that Aguda's non-participation or non-recognition was also a proactive ban

[Anonymous]

We know that "Anonymous", the potty mouthed Lubavitcher is ssssslow to grasp things, so we will provide a little extra clarification.

I only criticized the so called "rabbis" of the Reform movement, not the rank & file. The leadership is educated enough to know that what they are doing is wrong but don't let me get in the way of their abusive power trip and gluttonous indulgence of pork as they mislead the masses.

Posted by: Archie Bunker

More shit leaks out of Archie's depends.

Why would you think I'm Lubavtich?

I'm not.

Far from it.

And your Depends still stink and make a squishy sound when you walk.

Whoops. You had another accident.

Another fart that turned liquid on you.

[Paul Freedman]

Rachel: how about Gil Studen'ts blog?

http://hirhurim.blogspot.com/

[steve]

Paul,

See link below.

http://www.vosizneias.com/19732/2008/08/26/new-york-agudath-israel-to-ban-hekhsher-tzedek/

The "money quote" is right on the money!

[Paul Freedman]

steve, I see the "publicly oppose"--hmmm, and I can understand how we could interpret Reform's endorsement in light of this--

personally I retain my skepticism re Reform's theology of ethics and their we-suport-mitzvot-if-they-aren't-"time bound" intellectual loop hole--it's a shame to have a machloket if the HT continues its policy of supporting recognized dietary certification

[Reform Drive On Shabbos]

The fact that reform joined Hechsher Tzedek shows the world "how good" Hechsher Tzedek is.

Reform have no problem eating a "disgusting Pig" (called ham) and driving on Shabbos nor with adultery and that's how good and "ethical" and civil the Reform and Hechsher Tzedek is.

Next Endorsement of Hechsher Tzedek will be from The Arabs.

What's wrong with Arabs? We are not racists right? so lets ask the Arabs for an endorsement of Hechsher Tzedek.

WHAT A GREAT HONOR for Hechsher Tzedek that will be!

Hechsher Tzedek will be so PROUD, that the Arabs "also" support Hechsher Tzedek.

[steve]

Muslims also don't eat pigs. Does that mean we should start eating pigs? Muslims are against abortion. Should we fight to legalize it? Your logic is impeccable.

[steve]

It is interesting to note that before Rubashkin came on the scene, this was a non-issue. Only when the corrupt kashrus agencies decided to give the corrupt Rubashkins their stamp of approval did this become an issue. Just get rid of Rubashkin and there won't be any need for Hechsher Tzedek. Better yet, get rid of the corrupt "supervisors" and there won't be a need for Hechsher Tzedek since the corrupt businesses will not be getting any hechsherim.

[rebitzman]

++I only criticized the so called "rabbis" of the Reform movement++

And the Conservative rabbis - oh and the ultra Orthodox, oh - and.........

Archie - you SLANDER anyone with whom you do not agree lockstep - and you agree with next to no one.

I do not agree with "Anonymous"'s tactics - but frankly have no problem understanding why you are the target.

[rebitzman]

++nor with adultery++

Love it - no answer for the argument, so you resort to slander.

"Reform Drive On Shabbos" meet "Archie Bunker" "Archie Bunker" meet "Reform Drive On Shabbos".

[Boyaley Niddos]

Reform are Boyaley Nidos and Marry Shiksos too.

All these hypocrites need is to eat Pig with a "Hechsher Tzedek" ?

[Felder]

Reform never eat Kosher period.

Reform don't need and Hechsher of any kind since they never observed any kosher laws, ever, in their entire life.

[Yochanan Lavie]

I don't believe in Reform Judaism, but they are not against kashrut per se. They just think it's invented by men and therefore optional (it's okay if you find it spiritual, etc.). Therefore, a small minority of Reform Jews observe kashrut (mostly rabbis). Again, I don't agree with them, but it's not that none of them observe it.

[DELIMAN]

Will the reforms arrange for Boarshead and Thumans to get this Hechsher Tzedek? What about Perdue and Tyson? If they expect thier members to eat any of the Hechsher Tzedek products the better hurry and get these companies on board.

Can Hecsher Tzedek be granted to Red Lobster is the workers who throw the live lobsters into boiling water get a good wage and benefits?

[lei yang]

I hope they won't try and put this on all of our Chinese restaurants that the Jews love so much. We couldn't sell at our low prices if we had to pay a union wage. Does the fact that we are helping pay off the snakeheads count for anything? My locations on Long Island would close without all of our much beloved Jewish diners.

[THINKER]

If I remember correctly, the Reforms rejected kashrut in the very bigining of their movement, back when they observed Sunday as their day of worship. Now they're accepting this new standard?