Rabbi Pesach Lerner On Agriprocessors – The Agriprocessors-Paid Spin Continues

The EVP of Young Israel who helped broker and run the Agriprocessors-paid junket to Postville aimed at exonerating Agriprocessors has a lot to say about that trip.

Unfortunately…

…much of it seems to be not quite true.

Here is the mp3 of Rabbi Lerner's appearance on Zev Brenner's Talkline Network radio show last night.

Listen.

Then ask yourself how what Lerner did is any different from what the Red Cross did, for example, during WW2, when it "inspected" Theresienstadt ghetto. (Hat Tip to Luke Ford for this striking observation.)

Lerner misrepresents what took place in the St. Bridget's meeting and how that meeting came to be.

Lerner doesn't even begin to think about why a worker would tell Lerner or any other rabbi about Agriprocessors' abuses when that worker is standing in Agriprocessors talking to a rabbi who is clearly friendly with the Rubashkins and plant management.

And, as you'll see, Lerner avoids the real issues.

What Lerner does not address:

1. After a months-long investigation, a few hours before Lerner spoke Iowa's Department of Labor asked the state attorney general to prosecute Agriprocessors for "egregious" violations of child labor law on a scale never before seen in the state. 24 child laborers were arrested in the May 12 immigration raid. One was 13 years old.

2. 12 days ago, Jeff Abbas of Postville Radio (with a small assist from me) broke the news that federal officials seized almost 100 fake green cards and other fake identity documents from Agriprocessors' Human Resources department. Some of those fake green cards were were found in a neat stack on an HR desk, apparently waiting to be used.

3. This dovetails neatly with hundreds of depositions taken from Agriprocessors illegal workers, may of which claim that Agriprocessors itself arranged fake green cards, fake social security numbers, and other fraudulent documents.

4. It also dovetails neatly with the testimony of a translator employed by ICE who worked with the arrested workers. He claimed most workers are illiterate even in Spanish, and could not when shown tell the difference between a green card and a social security card. Many of the workers he translated for claimed Agriprocessors gave them their fake identity documents – for a price.

5. And then, of course, Agriprocessors and the Rubashkin family have a long history of state and federal regulatory actions taken against them, along with other questionable behavior. (Much more here.)

These five things – and there are more that could be added – are not "rumors" or wild allegations.

They are facts and evidence that demonstrate a pattern of lawlessness and disregard for large chunks of the Code of Jewish Law.

Rabbi Lerner does not address these issues because he cannot. To do so would effectively mandate removal of kosher supervision from Agriprocessors.

And Rabbi Pesach Lerner will never advocate that.

Comments

[yidandahalf]

To hell with all their apparatchiks, Agri made it onto Bill O'Reilly FN last night. Although not mentioned by name it served to further illustrate the wake up call the country seems to be beginning to hear. Just a few days ago gross collusion between the regulatory agencies and BigAgri was covered in a story about the FDA and Salmonella and members of Congress. I saw the very end and cannot provide any more detail.
The ICE raid has opened up a huge can of worms. As Jews we seem to be proving far more of a cotz to Ka$hru$ than any other movement against any other agribusiness. Rubash-in's goin' down no matter what desperations he engages in to save himself.

[critical_minyan]

wow! That blank green card news is really damning for Rubashkin.
Right now almost 400 Guatemalan "illegal" workers are sitting in jail because of crimes Rubashkin allegedly committed.
They are sitting in jail accused of identity theft when in fact the blame is elsewhere.
All they wanted to do is work and feed their families and now they are sitting in jail because of Agriprocessors allegedly printed up fake documents.
Imagine if these were Jews in prison instead of Guatemalans. They would be busing Yeshiva students everywhere to protest.

[steve]

Rabbi Hezfeld's Op-Ed article in the NY Times:

DARK MEAT

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/06/opinion/06herzfeld.html?_r=2&ref=opinion&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

"What is needed is for the Orthodox Union to appoint an independent commission whose members have not in the past been paid by either the Orthodox Union or Agriprocessors. Such a commission would select a team of rabbinic experts to spend an extended period of time at the plant and then make suggestions and recommendations. This independent team would make sure the plant upholds basic standards of kashrut and worker and animal treatment — and that it is in full compliance with the laws of the United States.

Hebrew National used to run a commercial that said: “We answer to a Higher Authority.” Well, we do. We need to express shame and embarrassment about the reports coming out of Iowa, and we need to actively work to change these matters. Then we should ask ourselves if our behavior and our values need improvement. Only if we truly think about these issues will we truly be keeping kosher."

[Yisrael Medad]

I hope this doean't rub off anyway on Jay Pollard. Rabbis Lerner is his spiritual advisor.

[bernice]

Why doesn't enough people realize that we are involved with a non-kosher operation (70%+). We should encourage a few more smaller shchitas across the country.

You just can't tame the monster.

They just don't know how to walk a straight line in kashrus or otherwise.

Getzel-You still didn't answer some kashrus issues.

Does it realy matter when serving treif if the truck had 9,000 chickens or 7,500 chickens? You sound like Bill Clinton.

Chevra: They must firt divest themselves from operating a non-kosher facility like the Takanah by Agudas Harabonim. we can now see the briliance of the Takanah Rubashkin is the biggest proof.

[R Lee Smith]

Thank you for posting the interview along with your comments. It could be that the Unions and newspapers are correct, but for now I find Rabbi Lerner's comments credible. Did he hope that he wouldn't find major problems when he went there --- no doubt. However his credibility and that of Young Israel are now on the line as well. Do the Unions and the Forward and the New York Time want to find things wrong -- I have no doubt but even their mistakes sell papers and advance there cause. Hence I'll stick with the visiting Orthodox Rabbinical group for now. I think/believe/hope they have the edge when it comes to objectivity and ethics and I'm sure that they realize if they are proven wrong their reputations will be severely damaged.

[C-G]

Steve, thanks for the great link. For anyone who's not familiar w/ Rabbi Herzfeld, he's the rabbi of the DC shul known as the national Synagogue. He's also an RCA-affiliated, YU grad that spent a few years with Avi Weiss in Riverdale before coming to DC.

[Shmarya]

The only viable inspections would be from independent third party professionals, not from rabbis.

He means well, but his solution is flawed. And it's too little, too late.

[steve]

I agree that it's too little, too late. However, proper kashrut inspections can only be done by trained rabbis. The other inspections need to be done by professionals. In the end, it all doesn't matter. Their ship is sinking, and it's sinking fast.

[steve]

Lubinsky keeps on spinning:

http://koshertoday.com/sixthsense.asp

I Too Was Looking for the Smoking Gun - August 4, 2008

I couldn’t help but observe the faces of the 20 or so rabbis from around the country that were part of a mission to the Agriprocessors plant in Postville last week. They had heard and read so much about the plant that they were expecting the worse. I have to admit that I too was on the lookout for any sign that perhaps justified some of the criticism against me that I had chosen to represent Agriprocessors. Like many of the rabbis who were there, I expected to find unsafe conditions, tormented and abused workers, and a plant that was “medieval” as one paper put it or a “Jungle” as the New York Times classified the plant in an editorial last week. But almost to a man, the reaction of the group was one of shock that a plant could be as maligned as it has been in the media. Each of us took the time to talk to employees from diverse backgrounds and all seemed happy with the working conditions, safety and pay scale. We saw an ultra modern plant, fully computerized and cleaner than most plants that I have visited (probably 100 or so in my lifetime). USDA officials who are present at every facet of production seemed to know nothing about underage workers, people with deformed hands working long hours, people not being allowed to go to the bathroom and so forth. That day I read Rabbi Morris Allen’s guidelines for Hekhsher Tzedek, a Conservative Jewish certification that the Orthodox and the certification agencies reject, and thought that what I and the group saw far exceeded his guidelines in every respect. “A blood libel,” yelled out one of the rabbis, when he saw the conditions at Agriprocessors.

Admittedly none of us were at the plant prior to May 12th, but underage workers? I discovered that the Iowa Department of Labor had sent in experts to find the under aged workers in February, some 3 months before the raid, and removed 2 who later turned out to be older than 18. Yes, it was apparent that many new systems were put into place since May 12th. Illegal immigrants were ferreted out through an e-Verify system, posters advised workers of an anonymous hotline, and even shorter shifts, but most of what we saw certainly preceded the day of the raid. The beautiful clean plant was clearly not built in 8 weeks. The beautiful housing that Agriprocessors built for its employees as opposed to the shanty trailers rented to them by a city councilman could not have gone up in about 10 weeks, nor could the $12 million sewage treatment plant to protect the environment. I heard church officials and the mayor describe how wonderful the Rubashkin family was. I listened to officials now at the plant speak about the state of compliance, safety and worker’s relations. We were all impressed with the high kashrus standards. But most of all we wondered how these stories of abuse, safety, and working conditions ever saw the light of day. Said one official,“They play telephone in this town. A rumor is passed along and pretty soon it makes the newspapers and is accepted as fact, so much so that the coveted New York Times, without ever stepping into the plant calls it a Kosher Jungle. Hard to believe that this could happen in America in 2008!”

The only line I agree with is the last one.

[Shmarya]

the $12 million sewage treatment plant to protect the environment.

I think Agri was forced to build this as part of its EPA settlement.

Like pretty much everything else Lubinsky touches, truth is hard to find.

[critical_minyan]

If I remember correctly, Rabbi Herzfeld is one of the few YU semicha graduates who is also a trained shochet.
He definitely knows what he is talking about.
If Rabbi Herzfeld questions the Rubashkin shechitah process then there is probably serious problems there.
Orthodox jews who are serious about keeping kosher should kasher their dishes and their kitchens.

[Stephen Mendelsohn]

BS"D

More spin from Rabbi Pinchos Lipschutz, one of the visiting rabbis:

http://rabbipinchoslipschutz.blogspot.com/2008/08/tale-of-two-cities.html

Perhaps we can understand the need to vilify Agriprocessors in part by pondering the controversy surrounding Wal-Mart. This chain store has become the all-around scapegoat for media and liberal Democrat bashing. Despite all the decent jobs they provide and all the products they sell at lower prices, which make them affordable for the lower-class families, the media and politicians profess to care so much about, they have been virtually demonized. Politicians and demagogues who seek a cause and a headline have set up Wal-Mart as their convenient whipping boy.

From the day Wal-Mart decided to keep their expertly managed stores union-free, they have been targeted. Vicious rumors are continuously fabricated about the company. The jobs, products and convenience they provide, and the charity they give, are negated. The wealth they create is ignored. The unions lobby against them relentlessly, while a rumor-mongering media and self-promoting politicians throw in their punches wherever possible.

And near the end he has the chutzpah to conclude with this:

We need to show our compassion for the poor, the maligned, and the abused, and feel their pain. We need to help people affected by the current economic downturn, along with those who worry where their children are and what they are doing, and others who can use our support.

Where is his compassion for the fifteen year-old undocumented immigrant slaving away on the night shift?

[Yochanan Lavie]

Yid & 1/2: Agriprocessors also made the Savage Nation website (I don't know if he talked about it on his radio show). So now both liberals and conservatives are appalled at Agri-vation, perhaps for different reasons. They must be doing something good if they can unite both "red" and "blue" America...

[Getzel Rubashkin]

I'm told Rabbi Herzfield is affiliated with Uri L'Tzedek. If that is true, I'm sure we'll hear from Shmarya about the importance of full disclosure etc etc.

Because we all know that Shmarya does not have a double standard...

[steve]

Uri L'Tzedek was started in response to the abuses at Rubashkin. If Rabbi Hertzfeld does belong to that organization, it is because he is outraged at the abuses, just as he writes in the article. Plus I don't believe he is getting paid to post his views. This is totally different than Juda Englemayer posting comments using fictitious names or posing as a Rubashkin critic, or Lubinsky writing favorable editorials in Kosher Today. They are paid consultants and are paid to post favorably.

[Archie Bunker]

I believe that Rabbi Herzfeld is affiliated with Avi Weiss and not Uri Lezedek itself.

What's refreshing for a change is that Rabbi Herzfeld is the first among the left wing modern orthodox who is not just bent out of shape over social justice. I know a Charedi rosh yeshiva he contacted to express his grave concerns that Rubashkin is guilty of passing off tarfus as kosher.

[sage]

I believe that Getzel needs to begin spending more time ruminating about his plans for the post-Rubashkin Postville.

The Iowa State criminal charges re: Illegal Child Labor are just the beginning. Iowa State criminal charges re: wage violations are likely to follow.

Then will come a host of Federal Criminal Charges.

Most likely, Agri will have to be sold to an owner who may use the State-Of-The-Art Hebrew National facility as a model to be emulated.

[rebitzman]

++I believe that Getzel needs to begin spending more time ruminating about his plans for the post-Rubashkin Postville.++

The company grosses a quarter billion $ in revenue a year. If they sell - if they don't sell, I suspect that young Mr. Getzel need not worry too much about where his next kosher meal will come from - or how he will send his kids to yeshiva.

[state of the Jews]

Rebitzman: What is the source for the "quarter billion $ in revenue." Lots of people have thrown around numbers. I'm just curious if they are based on fact.

[yidandahalf]

Shmarya at @10:22 re. the sewage reatmeant plant - I seriously wonder if this is the 'infrastructure development' that was going to get Agri a place on the Iowa state quarter. Probably was.

[rebitzman]

++Rebitzman: What is the source for the "quarter billion $ in revenue." Lots of people have thrown around numbers. I'm just curious if they are based on fact.++

AP article - here's a link to a copy of it.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/K/KOSHER_SLAUGHTERHOUSE?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US

[sage]

From the 8-7-08 Edition of the Cedar Rapid Gazette on line Edition

THE GAZETTE’S EDITORIAL

Even more troubling charges

Charges that Agriprocessors violated child labor laws on a large scale may be the most damning indictment yet of the Postville meatpacking operation.

The Iowa Labor Commission announced Tuesday that its lengthy investigation has uncovered 57 cases with multiple violations of child labor laws. Allegations include minors working illegally in the plant, exposure to dangerous chemicals and working with prohibited tools.

The troubled company is still under federal investigation for possible violations of immigration related labor laws.

Agriprocessors has been under a national microscope since agents conducted the largest-ever, single-site immigration raid May 12. Most of the 389 workers arrested for using false identities are serving jail time before facing deportation. Six of those arrested were released because they were juveniles.

Advocates for the illegal workers say the company exploited them and even arranged for phony identity documents. Two supervisors have been accused of aiding and abetting illegal workers. So far, management has not been charged. All of which is very troubling and begs for some reform of U.S. immigration law that doesn’t seem to hold employers accountable for hiring illegal workers. Even more reprehensible, if true, are Agriprocessors’ alleged violations against minors.

Child labor is defined, in general, as work that harms or exploits children in some way or blocks their access to education. That doesn’t mean all work is bad for children.

Certainly, kids can learn good skills and responsibility and contribute to a family’s financial well-being with appropriate and limited job duties.

But there are compelling reasons for governments to enforce child labor laws. Abuse was rampant early in the industrial age. Even today, millions of children around the world are forced into jobs that are dangerous, with long hours, poor pay — conditions that most adults would shun unless desperate.

Because of federal and state laws, most Iowans may assume that exploitation of children is rare in our state. Indeed, when found, it usually involves lesser violations and one or two individuals.

But state officials said at least 57 juveniles ranging from age 14 to 17 years old worked illegally at the Postville plant. This is the same place where dozens of broken bones and hundreds of other injuries were reported between 2001 and 2006.

State officials fined the company earlier this year for multiple safety violations.

Iowa law is clear: No person under age 18 may work in a meatpacking plant. Other prohibited workplaces for minors include most manufacturing and mining sites.

Agriprocessors says its policy is not to hire underage workers and to terminate any employees found to be under 18. How well that policy has been enforced is clearly in doubt.

[steve]

It's all one big conspiracy engineered by the corrupt UFCW. Shmarya please stop all these Rubashkin posts. Read this fascinating breakthrough investigative report:

http://5tjt.com/news/read.asp?Id=2864

[sage]

My reaction to this dis-information is the same as President Truman's reaction to the MacArthur address to the joint session of Congress, after his dismissal: "It's nothing but a damn bunch of bull sh-t."

[Yochanan Lavie]

Maybe we should call him Chometz Lerner.

Not all frum Jews are decerebrate. Shame on Rabbi Lerner. Does he believe that Hashem gave us Torah and Halacha for the purpose of exploitation of vulnerable workers and for theft? When the Moshiach comes, the corruption and filth exemplified by this criminal enterprise will be dealt with. Otherwise we will soon need a second mechitzah in our shuls for the felons among us.