Kosher Slaughter Can't Be Done Without Worker Exploitation, Rabbi Says?

That seems to be what Rabbi…

…Yosef Wikler is saying.

[UPDATE 8-4-08 – Rabbi Wikler says he was misquoted by the Forward. But what he claims to have told the Forward exposes more questionable behavior from Agudath Israel and Orthodox kashrut organizations.

Read Rabbi Wikler's correction, unedited and in his own words, here.]

The Forward reports:

…After viewing the initial guidelines, Rabbi Yosef Wikler, editor of Kashrus Magazine, said, “These guidelines do not give us enough freedom for us to complete a proper ritual slaughter without being impeded by these arbitrary rules.”

“At this time, I don’t believe that any kosher organization is prepared to work together with them in any which way,” Wikler added.

What does Hechsher Tzedek mandate?

Nothing that should interfere with any kosher processing.

However, there are a number of things that would interfere with price fixing, collusion and fraud. Here is the entire Hechsher Tzedek guidelines. What, other than having to work with the Conservative rabbis, can you find that would "impede" kosher slaughter?

POLICY STATEMENT
The Hekhsher Tzedek will indicate that a kosher product was made in compliance with a set of social justice criteria, in keeping with the teachings of the Jewish faith. In order to qualify for the Hekhsher Tzedek, a product must have been produced in a way that aligns with a strict set of standards regarding Wages and Benefits; Employee Health and Safety/Relations/Training; Product Development; Corporate Transparency and Integrity; and Environmental Impact. Compliance will be assessed, as applicable and wherever possible, at the level of the facility where the product was manufactured, although overall company performance will also be taken into account.
The qualifying process will take a multi-faceted approach. Data will be collected in a disciplined process from independent sources of information, including governmental agencies, non-governmental organizations, and the media, as well as from the companies whose products are under consideration for the Hekhsher. Engagement with companies will play a key role in the process, as Hekhsher certification will require a detailed knowledge of company/facility policies, procedures and performance. Transparency and a willingness to enter into dialogue with the United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism (USCJ), the Rabbinical Assembly (RA), and their partners will therefore be essential for a company’s products to qualify for the Hekhsher Tzedek.

SUMMARY OF WORKING GUIDELINES
The following criteria and standards serve to summarize the guidelines for the implementation of the Hekhsher Tzedek Policy Statement and provide an overview for its implementation. The USCJ, RA and KLD Research & Analytics, Inc. will maintain a more exhaustive version, which will continue to evolve over time. Our approach to assessing compliance with the Hekhsher Tzedek standards includes the use of reputable third-party sources and direct contact (engagement) with companies.

Wages and Benefits
Companies must offer fair wages and benefits to all employees. Companies will be favored for the Hekhsher if they pay their workers the industry average or above; offer comprehensive health insurance and retirement benefits; and provide workers with paid time off for vacation, sick, and maternity leave. Companies may be disqualified from receiving the Hekhsher if they perform poorly in the aforementioned areas or if they have been involved in serious or widespread controversies relating to employee compensation and benefits. Compliance with these criteria will be assessed using the following indicators.

The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism The Rabbinical Assembly Hekhsher Tzedek Policy Statement and Working Guidelines Public Version (June 2008) 2

▪ Worker Pay. The focus of this indicator is on how well factory-level workers are paid compared to national and industry averages.
▪ Health Insurance. Companies will be favored for the Hekhsher if they offer affordable health insurance to all full-time employees and a meaningful percentage of employees take advantage of the program
▪ Retirement Benefits. Companies will be favored for the Hekhsher if they offer all full-time employees an adequately funded defined benefit pension plan or a 401(k) plan through which they match employee contributions. The level at which the company matches employee contributions will also be assessed.
▪ Vacation. Companies will be favored for the Hekhsher if they offer paid vacation time to all full-time employees and a meaningful percentage of employees take advantage of the program.
▪ Sick Leave. Companies will be favored for the Hekhsher if they offer paid sick leave to all full-time employees.
▪ Maternity Leave. Companies will be favored for the Hekhsher if they offer maternity leave that exceeds the 12 unpaid weeks mandated by the federal government.
▪ Controversies. This indicator considers the company’s record with regard to controversies associated with worker pay and benefits, e.g. non-compliance with minimum wage or overtime laws, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) wage discrimination lawsuits, or violations of the Family and Medical Leave Act.
▪ Subcontractors. Companies under consideration for the Hekhsher will be asked about their subcontractors’ policies and practices as they relate to the Wages and Benefits criteria above.

Employee Health and Safety/Relations/Training
Companies must provide a safe and healthy workplace to all employees as well as adequate training regarding occupational hazards. Companies will be favored for the Hekhsher if they exhibit a low lost-time incident and employee turnover rate; are transparent about safety inspection performance; have strong health and safety programs; provide support for immigrant workers; and offer a satisfactory workplace environment.
Specific to the issue of labor relations, companies will be favored for the Hekhsher if they have demonstrated a hospitable and progressive relationship with their employees and the labor organizations that represent them. These companies will value their employees’ contribution to their endeavor, and will involve them and the labor organizations that represent them in decisions that affect them in the workplace, and their loved ones at home. They will also foster and encourage the employment and promotion of women and minorities, and those physically and mentally challenged. They will also provide

The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism The Rabbinical Assembly Hekhsher Tzedek Policy Statement and Working Guidelines Public Version (June 2008) 3
appropriate mechanisms for resolving disputes that are binding, easily accessible and fairly administered. Companies will also be favored who respect employee wishes concerning representation by labor organizations, whose majority status has been appropriately demonstrated and maintained, and who adhere to the purposes and provisions set forth in the National Labor Relations Act. Companies will be disfavored if they have demonstrated a record of violating labor and employment laws or who promote or instigate conflict with labor organizations or employees.
Companies may be disqualified from receiving the Hekhsher if they perform poorly in the aforementioned areas or if they have committed health and safety violations. The following indicators will be used to assess compliance with these criteria:

􀂃 Violations, Fines and Penalties. Health and safety violations, at the facility level. Compliance with this indicator will be assessed by monitoring third-party media reports, using data provided by regulatory agencies, such as the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OHSSA) for U.S.-based operations, and engagement directly with the company.
􀂃 Lost-time incident rate. Companies will be favored for the Hekhsher if their lost-time incident rate is better than the industry average.
􀂃 Safety Inspections. This indicator focuses on the facility’s record with regard to recent safety inspections - the company’s willingness to share any results from the inspection with the USCJ/RA, or willingness to request such an inspection and share the results.
􀂃 Awards and Certifications. Company and facility-level health and safety awards and certifications. Companies with, for example, OSHA Voluntary Protection Programs (VPP) Star facilities and those recently acknowledged for good safety practices by an industry association will be favored for the Hekhsher.
􀂃 Safety Management Systems. Health and safety management systems will be assessed based on the details of the company’s training program relative to industry peers, and on how many employees receive training and how often. Companies will be favored for the Hekhsher if they have safety committees that include worker participation as well as management, and if language-appropriate training is provided.
􀂃 Employee Turnover. Companies will be favored for the Hekhsher if the turnover rate is better than the industry average. Turnover due to the employment of seasonal workers will be taken into consideration in assessing performance (depending on the availability of this information.)
􀂃 Union Relations. Companies will be favored for the Hekhsher if they have a record of positive relations with unions. Indications of positive relations include union accounts that a company has taken steps to treat its unionized workforce fairly; encouragement of unions to organize new workers through cooperative policies or programs; multiple long-term union contracts; and the absence of strikes, lockouts or union-related controversies. Indications of poor union relations

The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism The Rabbinical Assembly Hekhsher Tzedek Policy Statement and Working Guidelines Public Version (June 2008) 4
include historic patterns of acrimonious relations with unions; the adoption of union-busting tactics, including the use of replacement workers during strikes; prolonged strikes/lockouts; expired contracts; strong and well-documented opposition to unionization efforts; and National Labor Relations Board or labor law violations at non-union or union facilities.

􀂃 Discrimination. Well-documented incidents of discrimination towards employees. Indicators of poor performance in this area include significant fines, penalties, or lawsuit settlements over allegations of sex, race, age or disability discrimination against an individual or group; and unresolved discrimination lawsuits that have attained class-action status. Companies will be favored for the Hekhsher if they have avoided any major, recent employee discrimination incidents.
􀂃 Support for Women, Minorities, and the Disabled. Companies will be favored for the Hekhsher if they make proactive efforts to have a diverse workforce, including women, minorities, and the disabled.
􀂃 Support for Immigrant Workers. Companies will be favored for the Hekhsher if they make proactive efforts to support their immigrant workers and have avoided controversies associated with the poor treatment of these workers.
􀂃 Workplace Environment. Companies will be eligible for the Hekhsher provided they offer an adequate workplace environment for employees, including restroom and lunch breaks.
􀂃 Subcontractors. Companies under consideration for the Hekhsher will be asked about their subcontractors’ policies and practices as they relate to the Employee Health and Safety/Relations/Training indicators above.

Product Development
Companies must offer quality products and services, and market them responsibly. Companies that work with animals should have policies and practices in place to ensure they are treated humanely at all points of the production cycle. Companies will be favored for the Hekhsher if they have strong quality management and animal welfare policies in place. Companies may be disqualified from receiving the Hekhsher if they perform poorly in the aforementioned areas or if they have been involved in serious or widespread controversies relating to product safety, marketing, or the treatment of animals. The following indicators will be used to assess compliance with these criteria:

􀂃 Animal Welfare Policies. Companies will be favored for the Hekhsher if they adhere to the Global Animal Partnership™ 5 Step Animal Welfare Rating Standards (GAP 5) or the Humane Farm Animal Care Standards (HFAC). Companies will remain eligible for the Hekhsher provided they adhere to animal welfare guidelines that are endorsed by the Food Marketing Institute (FMI) or National Council of Chain Restaurants (NCCR.) These include the animal welfare guidelines of the following producer groups:

The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism The Rabbinical Assembly Hekhsher Tzedek Policy Statement and Working Guidelines Public Version (June 2008) 5
o American Meat Institute
o Dairy Quality Assurance-National Milk Producers Association
o National Cattlemen’s Beef Association
o National Chicken Council
o National Turkey Federation
o United Egg Producers

The USCJ and RA view adoption of, and compliance with, FMI-NCCR animal welfare guidelines as a minimum standard, but encourage the adoption of more robust animal care standards (i.e. GAP 5 and HFAC.)

􀂃 Animal Welfare Controversies. The company’s record with regard to animal treatment/cruelty controversies. Companies will be favored for the Hekhsher if they have avoided any major, recent controversies. In the case of controversies, efforts will be made to corroborate the claims, including requesting company comments on the allegations.
􀂃 Product Marketing Controversies. The company’s record with regard to marketing controversies or violations, including those relating to deceptive advertising practices and consumer fraud. Companies will be favored for the Hekhsher if they have avoided any major, recent controversies or violations.
􀂃 Product Safety Issues. The company’s record with regard to product safety. Companies will be favored for the Hekhsher if they have avoided any major, recent controversies or violations.
􀂃 Quality Management Systems. Company or facility-level quality management systems. Strong quality management systems may include those that adhere to management methodologies such as Six Sigma, The Deming Method, ISO 9000, and QS 9000.
􀂃 Subcontractors. Companies under consideration for the Hekhsher will be asked about their subcontractors’ policies and practices as they relate to the Product Development indicators above.

Corporate Transparency and Integrity
Companies must operate transparently and with integrity, respecting ethical standards of conduct and corporate governance. Companies will be favored for the Hekhsher if they exhibit strong Corporate Social Responsibility (CSR) reporting practices and demonstrate a willingness to engage in a productive dialogue with the USCJ/RA. Companies may be disqualified from receiving the Hekhsher if they perform poorly in the aforementioned areas or if they have been involved in serious or widespread controversies relating to corporate governance and accounting practices and standards. The following indicators will be used to assess compliance with these criteria:

▪ Corporate Governance Controversies and Violations. The company’s record with regard to controversies and violations associated with allegations or convictions of bribery, insider trading, or other fraudulent activities. Companies

The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism The Rabbinical Assembly Hekhsher Tzedek Policy Statement and Working Guidelines Public Version (June 2008) 6
will be favored for the Hekhsher if they have avoided any major, recent controversies.

▪ Accounting Controversies. The company’s record with regard to controversies concerning accounting practices. Companies will be favored for the Hekhsher if they have avoided any major, recent controversies.
▪ Transparency. The company’s CSR reporting practices and willingness to respond to questionnaires from, or meet with, the USCJ/RA. Strong CSR reporting will be gauged by the frequency and depth of reporting as well as by whether a company is a signatory to frameworks such as the Global Reporting Initiative or Ceres Principles. Companies that have taken an active stance against transparency, or concealed or lied about CSR performance, will not be eligible for the Hekhsher.

Environmental Impact
Companies must avoid having a negative impact on the environment, and by extension, communities located near company facilities. Companies will be favored for the Hekhsher if they employ strong environmental management systems and demonstrate a commitment to the environment through the adoption of proactive environmental initiatives. Companies may be disqualified from receiving the Hekhsher if they perform poorly in the aforementioned areas; have been involved in serious or widespread environmental impact controversies; hold substantial liabilities for hazardous waste; are notably high emitters of toxic chemicals; or have paid substantial fines or civil penalties for violations of environmental regulations. The following indicators will be used to assess compliance with these criteria:

▪ Community Controversies. The company’s record with regard to controversies concerning environmental contamination and its effects on communities, particularly incidents that lead to community health concerns. Companies will be favored for the Hekhsher if they have avoided any major, recent controversies, and efforts will be made to corroborate third party claims, including requesting company comments on the allegations.
▪ Regulatory Problems. The company’s record with regard to environmental fines or penalties. Companies will be favored for the Hekhsher if they have avoided any major, recent fines, penalties and settlements (or proposed fines, penalties and settlements) from a government regulatory authority.
▪ Hazardous Waste Liabilities. The company’s record with regard to accrued liabilities for hazardous waste sites, or fines and civil penalties related to hazardous waste management violations. Companies will be favored for the Hekhsher if they do not have significant liabilities and have avoided any major, recent hazardous waste violations.

The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism The Rabbinical Assembly Hekhsher Tzedek Policy Statement and Working Guidelines Public Version (June 2008) 7

▪ Toxic Emissions. The company’s emissions of toxic chemicals. Facilities whose toxic emissions are notably high may not be eligible for the Hekhsher. “Notably high” will generally be defined as facilities that have emissions above the median amongst all facilities in the United States. Because this measures absolute emissions, it eliminates any bias relative to company size.
▪ Environmental Management Systems. Company and facility-level environmental management systems. Companies with high-quality environmental management systems, such as ISO 14001 certification, will be favored for the Hekhsher.
▪ Environmental Initiatives. Company and facility-level environmental initiatives. Companies that demonstrate a commitment to the environment, e.g. through the adoption of initiatives such as pollution prevention and recycling programs, will be favored for the Hekhsher.

Engagement
Companies that do not meet any of the preceding standards will be engaged with in an attempt to address concerns about, and ultimately improve, their performance relative to the indicators.

Hechsher Tzedek guidelines in PDF format.

UPDATE 8-4-08 – Rabbi Wikler says he was misquoted by the Forward. But what he claims to have told the Forward exposes more questionable behavior from Agudath Israel and Orthodox kashrut organizations.

Read Rabbi Wikler's correction, unedited and in his own words, here.

Comments

[Gary]

That's it. Kosher chicken will be $10 per lb. by next year.

[Kishkeman]

I would say not one Conservative Jewish insitution could get a Heksher Tzedek.

[steve]

This same Rabbi Wikler posted on UOJ last year seeking information about Rubashkin. I didn't trust him then and I still don't trust him or the organization he works for.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

I don't suppose you asked the Rabbi to clarify his statement? Out of quite a long list you seem to have "arbitrarily" chosen the most incendiary interpretation of his words.

[Shmarya]

Give another plausible explanation for his remark.

[Shmarya]

Getzel,

Did you get a new office recently? There is a contention that you got a new office and that new office is somehow linked to blogging.

Any truth to either?

[Getzel Rubashkin]

I did not get a new office. I do not have my own office, and I do not have any workplace association with blogging. My current responsibilities are connected with accounting as well as researching and implementing a number of improvements.

[.....]

Who would trust This so called kosher that demands more than kosher? Ethics is important period. What they want is something beyond that and that will destroy the whole kosher industry. I do agree that changes have to be done in regards to orthodox standards. What this so called kosher standards call for is a piece of the kosher pie and whip cream on top. They should work with the orthodox is have standards instead of starting something on their own.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

That he was thinking of worker exploitation is implausible. Why don't you shoot him an email asking for clarification before you write incendiary headlines? He may have a legitimate point.

[sage]

+++They should work with the orthodox is have standards instead of starting something on their own.+++

Hechsher Tzedek came into being precisely because the Orthodox have refused to adopt similar standards for Kosher Animal Agribusinesses, in spite of one scandal after another in recent years.

For them, the mantra is, "If the animal is shechted properly" the meat is Kosher. Other issues are left up to government agencies.

[Shmarya]

I did not get a new office. I do not have my own office, and I do not have any workplace association with blogging. My current responsibilities are connected with accounting as well as researching and implementing a number of improvements.

[grin] Well, I hope they gave you a new computer, at least! [/grin]

[Getzel Rubashkin]

I'll tell them you said that.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Why is it that Perdue can treat workers and animals okay, but if someone proposes the kosher industry does the same, the lament is that prices would skyrocket? If so, why haven't we heard the same horror stories about other concerns such as Hebrew National or Empire?

As an historical analogy: When the British Empire outlawed slavery, sugar plantation owners in the West Indies (a small minority of them Jewish, unfortunately) bitterly complained to Parliament that they would not be able to stay in business. Yet somehow they managed.

[steve]

Getzel,

Why did you backtrack on the "glatt kosher" poultry issue?

You still didn't answer how we are supposed to be assured that your non-kosher meat is being labeled as kosher. Please don't answer that I should ask Rabbi Weissmandl because he already said that he's not involved in the packaging and shipping dept.

[Shmarya]

I'll tell them you said that.

More posts in less time. Push efficiency.

Anyway, at least you have your own computer. Hard to do any posting with a timeshare.

[yidandahalf]

Hechsher Tzedek? HORSESHIT TZEDEK.

[sage]

It wouldn't surprise me if Hebrew National and Empire eventually adopt Hechsher Tzedek.

As for Agri, chances are between slim and none.

[Lawrence M. Reisman]

I think Shmarya is being too harsh on Yosef Wikler. What he said was not that kosher companies would have to exploit workers to stay in business. He said that he heksher tsedek guidlines will be too much for the kosher establishments. He might have a point; the laundry list is just way too large to be practical at this time. So what we are left with is relying on Iowa and the US gov't to enforce fair labor law, workplace safety, etc. I sincerely hope they do so. Someone has to, and the Conservative movement has painted itself into a corner.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

@shmarya: *laughing* I have a desk and computer, just not my own office.

@steve: I did not backtrack on the poultry issue. I posted on that here.

As far as labeling, retail packages are shrink-wrapped with the label on the plastic and bulk bags have inserts in the vacuum-sealed inner bags. The inserts and labels are in a locked cabinet which can only be opened by a Rabbi. These labels cannot be replaced in shipping, as they would need to use the traypack machine or vacuum to reseal the bag or tray.

[Shmarya]

Not at all. Most of HT standards say to meet accepted industry standards or exceed them.

Show me the standards kosher companies cannot meet.

[steve]

This is what Rabbi Heinemann writes about "glatt" poultry and Israeli "mehadrin" poultry:

Sometimes suppliers or proprietors will advertise glatt kosher chickens to promote their product. This implies that the "glatt" chicken is of higher kosher quality than "regular" kosher chicken, and that a chicken could be kosher without being glatt. This is a myth, since every chicken in the United States must be glatt in order to be considered kosher. In Israel, the lungs of the chickens are checked due to the prevalence of Newcastle Disease. Indeed, there are two types of chicken that are sold in Israel – Mehadrin and non-Mehadrin. Mehadrin chickens, whose lungs are checked, are considered glatt while the non-Mehadrin chickens would only be considered regular non-glatt.

Getzel, this is not Israel. Your chickens are not any more kosher than Kiryas Yoel, Vineland, Chabura, Marvad, etc. TAKE OFF THAT PHONY LABEL! IT IS DECEPTIVE ADVERTISING!!

In regards to the labeling, you still didn't answer how we know that non-kosher meat doesn't get mixed in with kosher.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

@steve: The Rabbi I spoke to about the poultry clearly said that the difference between Mehadrin vs. non-Mehadrin was not only lungs, but extended to many other questions. He had first-hand experience and no reason to lie. He told me the chickens labeled as being superior were only chickens about which no questions had been raised, and he listed possible questions. As long as the same standards are being kept it is not deceptive to indicate that.

+=Your chickens are not any more kosher than Kiryas Yoel, Vineland, Chabura, Marvad, etc.++

Another Shochet I spoke to shared with me a list of Chumros associated with the Shchita knives that are unique in the US.

All carcasses are clearly stamped multiple times to indicate the Kosher status, stamps which are visible in the boning rooms.
I believe there is a Mashgiach in the cooler.

[bernice]

Getzel, I feel bad for you as you are so young & have not had the privilage that we had years back. You see you grew up on Rubashkin / Supreme etc which we know wasn't a kosher product as WE understand kosher.

You never lived a life or experienced kosher so you can't relate to all of these kosher requests..It's not kosher-style that they want (you don't have to be Jewish to eat Levy's bread).

So just focus on the only items that might change as that ishat Hechsher tzedek & uri L'tzedek 7 all the other ones are bashing you even the 25 + Rabbis reporters Pr ....that made their junket to Agri.

Please don't attempt to get a crash course "basics on kosher".

Thanks,

[Archie Bunker]

Rabbi Wikler is muzzled to a large degree from speaking his mind because the OU-led mafia will shut him down through an advertising boycott. He already got a taste of the OU's wrath after he hinted in his magazine that there is a problem with Le Marais. I believe he was together in the same shiur as Genack in YU who seemingly gave the order last year to retaliate against Rabbi Wikler in a different way. Still, he does a lot of work applying pressure behind the scenes so I'm not sure why Steve would dismiss him out of hand.

[Archie Bunker]

That said, the "hechsher zedek" is viewed by the kashrus industry as a huge threat because they believe the agencies will lose accounts to Conservative "rabbis" as has happened on Long Island, NY. It's not clear if this is connected to the Morris Allen initiative, but they believe it is.

[Nigritude Ultramarine]

Hechsher Tzedek? HORSESHIT TZEDEK.

Thank you. How very inappropriate.

[state of the Jews]

Last week in Postville I interviewed a Guatemalan who used to work in chicken cut-up. As chickens come into cut-up the only thing that changed was the packaging. Every hour os so they would change "labels" from Shor Bahor to "yellow" to something else. The implication was that their is one standard for kashrut no matter what the package said or what price was charged to the consumer. (Caveat: this worker would not see if the chicken was inspected ala the Israeli system for Mehadrn and non-mehadrin).Of course if there was a reliable Rabbi present at all times in cut-up, packaging and shipping and they coordinated a change in labels with the changes in shichita procedures, this would not raise a question. But since a Rabbi is not present at all times in cut-up, packaging and shipping it does raise interesting questions.

If I remember correctly from my kibbutz days, New Castle Disease is not transmited to humans. All birds in Israel are/were innoculated against New Castle. Once a bird has New Castle they are easily identified by unusual behavior including the head of the bird flopping at an angle over the back. The bird is then put down.

A number of issues can effect the kashrus of a bird including pendulous crop, tumors, broken limbs, etc. Thus after shichita the organs should be checked for nodules and other indications of problems. It is however next to impossible to check every bird in this manner in a high speed processing line. Thus a bird with a subdermal hematoma (discolor under the skin)might be deemed trief and separated from the kosher product based on visual inspection alone.

Getzel raises an another interesting question. Since kosher and non-kosher cut-up of beef and chicken occurs in the same area, what about the kalim used in the processing? Do workers change knives when cutting kosher and non-kosher? As I remember, workers do not carry two different knives, change gloves, change frocks, etc.

[Jerome Soller]

Some of my thoughts on this (taking a break), before I get back to work here. Overall, I believe that this is a worthwhile standard and support their efforts. In my opinion, I don't see that there is anything here that would adversely impact a proper ritual slaughter. Overall, the rules seem to be consistent with Jewish ethics.

Now, I will play devil's advocate. Some of the rules do seem to reflect a reflect a socio-political agenda that go beyond Jewish ethics and impose their own values on the organization (for better or worse).
I am cautious about Jewish groups that overuse the terminology "social justice", but realize that reform and reconstructionist groups love that terminology. One man's social justice can sometimes be another man's politically motivated hardship. It all depends on who sets the standards and what those standards are based upon. (The last Jewish person who mentioned to me the words 'Social Justice' was a Jewish woman I almost dated when visiting my parents in New York - who hopefully does not read this blog :) Her idea of social justice, that she described on the phone for an hour, was neo-marxism and small business owners like me were immoral. Let's just say that the date did not happen!)

What was most striking is the subjectiveness of the ratings. For better or worse, these ratings (in spite of their reliance on some statistical data) will be heavily impacted by the people responsible for them and their subjective judgment. Shmarya complains about the ethics of the OU, but this standard will be similarly impacted by the ethics of its leaders. I don't know that there is a way around this.

I believe that some in the orthodox world would be unconfortable because of the strong influence of the conservative rabbinate and the subjectiveness of the rules, as they evolve (a political thing - they can't control it - only react). I also believe that there will be a hesitancy of some privately-held businesses to open up their books and internal business practices to a group they perceive as an outsider.

I wish them success, but think that their future challenges will political in nature.

My thoughts,

Jerome

[steve]

Another Shochet I spoke to shared with me a list of Chumros associated with the Shchita knives that are unique in the US.

Give us a break. You know as well as I do that Rubashkin are not more machmir than any of the brands I listed. Take off the "GLATT" already. Your first comment on the subject was correct: it is "ridiculous".

I believe there is a Mashgiach in the cooler.

I should hope so, for the sake of your Jewish customers.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

steve:
++Rubashkin are not more machmir than any of the brands I listed.++

You know this how, exactly? I am awaiting your reply or apology, as the commenters on this blog seem awfully quick to make statements and accusations from a position of utter ignorance. Take "state of the jews" recent comment for example.

state of the jews:

You are not very well informed. You are also clearly not familiar with the workings and layout of the plant, yet you raise issues.

You mention Shor HaBor, "yellow" and something else. There are only two labels used for chickens. They signify a Rabbinical workforce certified by two different standards.

Secondly, labels are not changed often at all, and when there is a change, it occurs after a rabbinically supervised break between one and the other. As I mentioned earlier, the Rabbi has the key to the locker in which the labels are stored. I have worked in chicken cut-up and this is first-hand information.

Other inaccuracies in your comment:

There is no non-kosher chicken cut-up.

Cut-up for non-kosher beef takes place in an entirely different area in the plant by a different set of workers.

[steve]

You know this how, exactly?

First of all that was not an accusation. You're the one that needs to back up your statement that Rubashkin is more machmir than the brands I listed. I follow my rabbi who is a lot older, more informed and more knowledgeable than MMW and all the OU rabbis and put together. He, as well as other kashrus experts list Kiryas Yoel and Vineland at the top, with Rubashkin at the bottom. Even if it is true that you are following more chumros than the others, the label should state "mehadrin" or "strictly kosher", not "glatt". Uneducated people who eat only glatt meat, will relate this term to beef and will refrain from eating non-glatt chicken. That is what I mean by deceptive advertising.

[Carol Ann Varley]

Getzel,
On Agri's website it states 70% of its products are sold as non-kosher.

Why so much non-kosher from a kosher meatpacker?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[Rabbi Yosef Wikler]

I am triply offended. First by being misquoted in The Forward, secondly by not being given the quote beforehand to review as had been promised by the writer, and thirdly by being discussed on this site without being given the courtesy of being contacted to see if indeed I said (meant) what I was misquoted as saying.
As to my asking information on this site last year regarding Rubashkin, it was an imposter. I have never written here before. Kashrus Magazine has been reporting in print (for 28 years) and on the web at www.kashrusmagazine.com and has worked behind the scenes for all kosher consumer for that time as well.
Rabbi Yosef Wikler

[Getzel Rubashkin]

@Carol: I hope I am not the only one who appreciates the humor here. Another commenter here insinuated Agri is somehow creative when it comes to Glatt, which would lead to high Glatt percentages. Now you are asking about high non-Kosher percentages. The reason for such high non-Kosher is the percentage of animals which qualify as Kosher is low to begin with, and adding to that the fact that all hind-quarters are non-Kosher you end up with a high-percentage of non-Kosher.

steve: You made a statement. "Rubashkin are not more machmir than any of the brands I listed." You now say that it may be. While remaining on the offensive, I might add.

I will be happy to post the examples he gave me, after I double-check to make sure I am not misquoting.

[steve]

Rabbi Wikler,

Thank you for clarifying that it was an imposter that was seeking information. I apologize for not realizing that it was an imposter.

[Carol Ann Varley]

Getzel,
{the percentage of animals which qualify as Kosher is low to begin with}

Question: Is that because of internal defects?

Also, someone on FM wrote the hindquarters are sold as Kosher in Israel.

Question: If so, why not here in the U.S.?

[Stephen Mendelsohn]

BS"D

Hechsher Tzedek is not very demanding, at least on animal welfare issues. THey still permit (though at least do not favor) eggs from battery caged hens per the standards of the pro-battery cage United Egg Producers, which is looking to pony up a whopping $50,000,000 to defeat Proposition 2 in California, which would ban battery cages. Polling shows Prop 2 passing with up to 2/3 of the vote, three months before election day. Thus a factory farming practice which may be soon banned is permitted by Hechsher Tzedek. And some Orthodox rabbis think Hechsher Tzedek is that demanding (leaving Rabbi Winkler out of this)? At least in this area, they fall quite flat with their standards, in my opinion.

It is also unclear whether Hechsher Tzedek would forbid the use of veal crates, another practice which would be prohibited by Prop 2, and is already in the process of being banned in Colorado and Arizona.

[rebitzman]

++What they want is something beyond that and that will destroy the whole kosher industry.++

Please SPECIFICALLY point out to and single item in their document that will "destroy the whole kosher industry" - because I sure don't see it.

Please be specific.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

Carol: The majority of non-Kosher or non-Glatt is due to the lungs, I believe.

Concerning the hinds, to the best of my knowledge: There are communities which have a tradition which allows them to remove the sciatic nerve and anything related to it, which is forbidden in the Bible. In the Ashkenazic community this is considered a lost art, and we therefore consider hinds non-Kosher.

[rebitzman]

++Rabbi Yosef Wikler++

Shmayra - 5W at it again, or is this the real item?

[rebitzman]

++Hechsher Tzedek? HORSESHIT TZEDEK.++

Don't suppose you'd point to a single thing in the document with which you take exception?

No?

[rebitzman]

++On Agri's website it states 70% of its products are sold as non-kosher.

Why so much non-kosher from a kosher meatpacker? ++

Because most of a cow is on the back half.

[rebitzman]

++Also, someone on FM wrote the hindquarters are sold as Kosher in Israel.

Question: If so, why not here in the U.S.?++

Because:

A) It's a poo load of work to make the back half kosher.

B) There is a ready market in this country for the back half of the animals making it FAR more cost effective to simply sell them to non-kosher sources. Economics.

[Shmarya]

++Rabbi Yosef Wikler++

Shmayra - 5W at it again, or is this the real item?

I just sent him an email.

[rebitzman]

++It wouldn't surprise me if Hebrew National and Empire eventually adopt Hechsher Tzedek.++

I have been told that at least with HN, that it's already being negotiated.

[sage]

Great news !!!!

[steve]

Just to clarify, the alleged imposter posing as Rabbi Wikler was on UOJ, not here. He even left an e-mail address.

[Archie Bunker]

Steve, you are mistaken. I have very reliable information that Rabbi Wikler had someone post his contact information on UOJ, Yudelstake (and VIN who censored him out to protect Rubashkin). Rabbi Wikler seems to have read your post in haste which he misunderstood and is only denying that he ever posted anything on Failed Messiah.

I also happen to know from someone in attendance the circumstances at some meeting(s) that led up to the Forward (likely intentionally) misquoting Rabbi Wikler. At a meeting for a group (FMI? or something like that), attended by Temple Grandin, Professor Regenstein of Cornell, various kashrus agency officials and other related industry officials, the group was giving a hard time to the orthodox. Granted, some of the orthodox themselves were giving a hard time to Dr. Regenstein who I believe has been sympathetic to observant Jews.

Rabbi Wikler, according to my source, is furious at the OU and company for giving an opportunity to the Conservative to jump in with their hypocritical HZ initiative. He once dared voice this concern at a kashrus industry meeting only to be greeted with dirty looks and disgust. Basically the OU and their cronies shot the messenger because they can't handle the truth.

[Archie Bunker]

I should add that UOJ found the Wikler post credible enough to highlight as part of a lead entry. The email and phone number do belong to Kashrus Magazine and the blog posts apparently generated some valuable tips.

Rabbi Wikler is also far from the only rabbi who has utilized UOJ's blog to get various messages out.

[Archie Bunker]

Getzel, in America the entire hind section is forbidden which is why your company should stop selling ox tail.

[Ruth]

On NPR's On Point, the NY Times reporter being interviewed about Postville explained that starting wages at the Rubashkin plant were about $6.25/hr. and at a nearby non-Kosher plant were more than twice that. So why then is kosher meat so much more expensive than nonkosher meat? Even hasgacha, is it just...profit?

[yidandahalf]

About the Horseshit Tzedek thing that has upset some of us. I thank Jerome Stoller for putting down what I should have said had I been up to the task. His comment is at 3:02 4 August.
Fundamentally I see the HT effort as being driven by high ideals but with a great chance of being hijacked by religious bureaucracy and political infighting. Of course I hope for the best but expect something far less.

[yidandahalf]

Anything that raises awareness is a good thing but I believe that if the HT is put into effect very few people will look for meat that has a HT logo. People buy by a brand not a hechsher. Again if it wakes some people up, that's good. But...

[state of the Jews]

Fair Trade Coffee has had astounding success in the marketplace as consumer became aware that the majority of profits go to the actual growers and not middlemen. Consumers were willing to pay a little more to insure a fair return to small growers.

In the same way HT has ther potential to raise awareness among Jews, that workers who make the kosher products they consume are treated fairly, receive industry or better wages, healthcare, etc.

To my knowledge, how HT will be paid for has not been established. In fact in initial discussions there was a desire NOT to charge manufacturers a fee for carrying the HT symbol. There are models other then the OU, etc.

There was also some discussion as to whether or not it should be called a "hechsher" since some might confuse it with existing organizations who check on ingredients, shichita, etc. The HT is about workers, the environment, etc.

All of this is in development and nothing is settled yet but the situation at Agri has greated a demand that the process be rushed and there is always a danger when haste replaces good halachic based thinking. We'll see.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Consumers paid more willingly for dolphin safe tuna.

[rebitzman]

>>Getzel, in America the entire hind section is forbidden>>

Uh....no. Not really.

This issue is the economics (but ox tail is problematic, since it's essentially the fat that makes it tasty - and it's chelev that's the issue) of processing v. just selling it non-kosher..

[rebitzman]

++I just sent him an email.++

Scott - any news?

[Getzel Rubashkin]

Shmarya, who contacted Rabbi Wikler after jumping to conclusions, although not "under pressure" like I was when I clarified my statement, has updated this post. He clarifies that Rabbi Wikler claims to be misquoted, but his clarification only drew more of Shmarya's fire.

We're still waiting on an update on the rental issue.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

Shmarya, who contacted Rabbi Wikler after jumping to conclusions, although not "under pressure" like I was when I clarified my statement, has updated this post. He clarifies that Rabbi Wikler claims to be misquoted, but his clarification only drew more of Shmarya's fire.

We're still waiting on an update on the rental issue.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

double-post* sorry

[Archie Bunker]

Rebitzman, the entire hind section is forbidden because of a rabbinical edict that makes no exceptions for America. It is permitted in Israel.