Israel's Top Olympic Swimmer Not Jewish Enough For Haredi Rabbis– When Having A Jewish Mother Isn't Enough

She's Israel's top swimmer. Her parents and grandparents are Jews. She is recognized as a Jew all over the world except one place…

…Israel:

Being written out of the Jewish people
By Seth Farber

As Anna Gostamelsky shattered Israel's national swimming record for the 100-meter freestyle on Sunday evening in Beijing, once again demonstrating her incredible endurance, I couldn't help thinking about another battle she has been fighting, this one for more than six years, and to date unsuccessfully: her bid to be recognized by the rabbinate as Jewish.

Gostamelsky is one of thousands of immigrants from the former Soviet Union who have been unable to convince the rabbinate here that she is Jewish according to halakha (Jewish religious law). As such, she has been denied the right to be married in Israel. When she turned to the organization I direct, ITIM: The Jewish Life Information Center, for help following the Athens Olympic Games, she summed up her feelings as follows: "In more than 150 countries in the world, not only am I Jewish, I represent the Jewish people. Only in Israel do people question my Jewishness."

Gostamelsky's "problem" is that the paperwork she used to establish her eligibility to come on aliyah comes from her paternal line, simply because when she immigrated to Israel in the early 1990s those documents were more readily accessible. But the rules for marrying in Israel are different than the requirements for immigrating and the rabbinate will only accept documentation from the maternal line. Although Gostamelsky has significant evidence - primarily oral testimonies - demonstrating that her mother was born Jewish, the absence of the paperwork the rabbinate takes seriously (in Anna's case, her grandmother's original birth certificate) has thrown Gostamelsky's Jewishness into doubt. The rabbinate refuses to accept these testimonies without the supporting documentation.

Last year more than 4,000 files were opened in rabbinical courts in Israel by people wishing to establish their Jewishness, primarily so they can marry here. Hundreds of other immigrants have not even bothered opening files, knowing that their documentation doesn't meet the bar of the rabbinate, even though they know they are Jewish. And yet not one Israeli politician or public servant has spoken out on this issue. Gradually, thousands of legitimate Jews are slowly being written out of the Jewish people.

The challenges of proving Jewishness don't relate only to immigrants. ITIM, an organization that helps Israelis navigate the rabbinate's labyrinths, has helped hundreds of native Israeli families confront the rabbinate on this issue after their children have become engaged to children of immigrants.

Moreover, the children of thousands of Israeli couples who choose for a variety of reasons to marry outside of the rabbinate's framework (in Cyprus for example) or who choose not to marry at all, will, in the next generation, find themselves in the awkward position of having to prove their Jewishness, despite having grown up as full Jews. I estimate that at least 60 percent of Jewish Israeli families will have to go through this process in the coming two decades.

The fact that a member of Israel's national swimming team is forced to marry outside the rabbinate is scandalous - especially since she respects Jewish tradition and desperately sought a way to be able to marry within the fold. But the issue is much bigger than Anna Gostamelsky's personal story.

Rabbinical courts insist on authentication of Jewishness because the assumption that someone who claims he is a Jew is a Jew - a principle that is, incidentally, codified in the Shulhan Arukh (code of Jewish law) - has been challenged in recent years by ultra-Orthodox poskim (halakhic authorities). These rabbis claim that such an assumption can be made only so long as the claimant is an observant Jew. However, in a society whose members are secular Jews - "those who don't act Jewish," in their words - no such claims hold any real credence.

Thus, just about anyone who seeks to get married in Israel needs to prove his or her Jewish bona fides. Sometimes this means bringing witnesses, but more often than not, especially when those involved were not born in Israel, it means providing documentation. ITIM has developed expertise in helping individuals meet the rabbinic requirements, even though the entire endeavor is deeply troubling.

As an Orthodox rabbi, I care deeply about high standards of halakha. At the same time, when suspicion and unjust behavior become the calling cards of those authorities whose mission is to preserve Jewish law, I feel it is important to speak out. As a nation, we may and perhaps should agree on one definition of Jewishness. But there ought to be room for multiple expressions within that definition. And more important, the level of proof demanded to meet that definition ought not to be unreasonable.

Given the fragile and temporal state of Israeli politics, it seems unrealistic to expect that the rabbinical courts will be dismantled over this issue. However, it is within our grasp to insist that those rabbinical judges who are appointed understand that the Jewish people transcend the Orthodox community. Moreover, it is important that both secular and Orthodox Jews understand that they have the right to demand that rabbinical court judges engage the issue of Jewishness authentication. The status quo is untenable. Jewishness authentication is an issue that relates to the entire Jewish people, not merely to the Orthodox.

If we don't begin to speak out soon, it won't only be one of our Olympic swimmers who can't prove she's Jewish.

Rabbi Seth (Shaul) Farber, Ph.D. is the founding director of ITIM (www.itim.org.il) and the founding rabbi of Kehilat Netivot in Ra'anana.

Comments

[uncle joe mccarthy]

shmarya,

i would like to say that i empathize with anna, but i dont.

fact is, many people who were labeled as jews in the old soviet system, were in fact not...and many who emigrated to israel and the us are not.

this isnt the falasha experience revisted...anna needs to have a halachic conversion, or else there is a very great danger of more children being placed in saphek.

[steve]

I agree with Uncle Joe. We had all kinds of problems with Russians that arrived here in the early '90's claiming to be Jewish, and with a little investigating, it was proven that they were not. Let them provide the necessary documents or undergo a halachic conversion.

[OHEV YISROEL]

This is a difficult subject and delicate issue, the who's and what's of "WHO IS A JEW?"

[ben]

I feel sorry for Anna - but being Jewish is like anything else - you either are or you aren't...she needs (sadly, and through no fault of her own) to prove her case...

[Nachum]

To the last two commenters: You have no idea what goes on in the Israeli Rabbinate, do you? Let me tell you a story:

My sister, born and raised an Orthodox Jew in New York, made aliya a few years ago. She met a wonderful guy (also an oleh) and they are now happily married.

But you should have seen the hoops they had to jump through. They "lucked out" in becoming friendly with some random guy who works in the Jerusalem Rabbinate office who helped them out, or it would have been a lot more complicated. The example most appropriate to this post is:

She needed to prove to the Rabbinate's satisfaction that she was Jewish. (Never mind that she'd done so already in order to become an Israeli citizen.) So her rabbi in New York- the one she davened by for years- had to write a letter. No problem, I daven in his shul, and many of his congregants have made aliyah, so he knew the procedure. He wrote up the standard letter, and then, to put a little "icing on the cake" so to speak, added one more line at the bottom- that not only had he known my sister and her family for years, but that, in fact, our father had been his rebbe in the third grade, in yeshiva.

Can't get better than that, huh? And what do you think the first reaction of the functionary at the Rabbinate was when he saw the letter? Can you guess?

"It says here that your father was his rebbe. It doesn't say anything [in the last line] about your mother."

GIVE ME A BREAK! This is mindless bureaucracy defined.

Ever since then, I've wondered how on earth anyone manages in Israel. If my sister, frum her whole life had problems like that, how is it for baalei teshuva? For gerim? For non-Orthodox people? For people from small Jewish communities whose rabbi may no longer be there? For people with no paper trail?

One of my Russian cousins- who also represents Israel in international competitions, and is nationally famous- married his (Jewish) wife in Cyprus. I don't blame him one bit.

[eliyah]

steve and uncle joe mccarthy (apposite nick!):

documents and "halachic conversions" do not go far enough. what we need is testing of the mitochondrial DNA to prove an unbroken female chain back to Sarah. BS"D, once we have established and separated the "wheat", so to speak, from the "chaff" amongst this rabble of russian riff-raff, we can turn our attention to the ethiopians, and eventually b'ezrat HaShem to the entire population of (the illegitimate godless zionist entity of) Israel. this will be the first scientific halachic step towards setting up R' Eliyashiv(shlit"a)'s brilliant, humane and never-been-done-before (at least not since 1945, or "the doctor's plot", anyway mid-century sometime) plan to draw up extensive lists of jews. this is not the final stage however, as Cohanim must be subjected to chromosomal testing to weed out those those mistakenly believing themselves to be "Cohens". These people can then be exposed for the fact that somewhere along that unbroken matrilineal chain back to Sarah, someone saucy lass either dallied where she wasn't supposed to, or a Roman, Cossack or Crusader took forcefully something he wasn't supposed to, and therefore the "Cohen" in question is unfit to deliver priestly blessings, let alone serve in the temple (may it be built speedily in our time, and with as little fallout as possible from the Islamic hordes when we bulldoze the udder of their "Egel Zahav")

all in all, the goal is total humiliation of these interbred, mongrelized, walking desecrations of the holy name (a.k.a. patrilineal "jews", and to a lesser extent halachic™ jews which still are a little soiled due to intermarriage). it is plainly evident that the enforcement of these babylonian edicts which Moses our Rabbi received at Mount Sinai retain their relevance in a modern and enlightened society. after all, as chaza"l make abundantly clear, Torah is what your Holy Rabbi says it is, and G-d forbid you should EVER (and i mean EVER) challenge his divine wisdom and knowledge.

[Harold F]

There was an article in the New York Times Sunday magazine about the same problem. Now that the haredim have the power, they'll rule with an iron fist.

[Nachum]

Eliyah, the uncomfortable fact is that mDNA testing shows that many Ashkenazim, while patrinlineally the same as Sephardim, matrilineally seem to be descended from non-Jews. Apparently Jewish men moved further afield than women, and when the time came to marry, they chose local wives. How "kosher" the conversions were- if they were converted at all- is an open question.

[steve]

It is okay to feel sorry and to feel bad for a Jew that is going through this. However, it is extremely necessary to investigate their backgrounds. We had several cases in the '90's where Russian immigrants who seemed to be Jewish, were looking to marry into the community. We had a few working in the kitchen in the synagogue. We later found out that they weren't Jewish at all and we had to kasher all the keilim. These are only a few of the possible ramifications. Let's not be naive and ignore all the "refugees" that came out of the former Soviet Union as fake Jews. If they are sincere, there is nothing to stop them from undergoing a halachic conversion.

[Herschel]

Rabbinical courts insist on authentication of Jewishness because the assumption that someone who claims he is a Jew is a Jew - a principle that is, incidentally, codified in the Shulhan Arukh (code of Jewish law) - has been challenged in recent years by ultra-Orthodox poskim (halakhic authorities). These rabbis claim that such an assumption can be made only so long as the claimant is an observant Jew. However, in a society whose members are secular Jews - "those who don't act Jewish," in their words - no such claims hold any real credence.

The Rabbinate is two-faced.

If the above is the case, then why are people in the observant community being threatened with having their conversions nullified?

They say they are Jews. They are living as observant Jews.

"These rabbis claim that such an assumption can be made only so long as the claimant is an observant Jew."

So why do some gerim and children of gerim in the observant community have to worry that they won't be considered Jews?

The Rabbinate is full of crap.

[Hyman Rosen]

I like to describe this as being trapped in unlocked cages. In the U.S., and to some extent in Israel, the mullahs have no power over you that you do not yourself grant them.

[Jason]

Hyman, if only that were so. For those who choose to be part of the observant community, or whose children might one day choose to do so, the mullahs hold lots of power, including the power over recognized marriage. And don't forget, this directly impacts the availability of immigration to Israel under the "who is a Jew" question.

[endthemadness]

Great another Orthodox drug bust!?!

http://www.hamercaz.com/hamercaz/site/news_item.php?id=798

According to Hamercaz the kids are still in jail

[Ben]

uncle joe mccarthy, steve, ben and everyone else here writing about necessity to check potentially impure Anna and Russian Jews in general.
It is clear that you have no idea as to how this check is being performed. As usual the devil is in the details.
For example, a requirement to present birth certificate of maternal grand mother seems simple enough right?
Now lets consider details:
1) In the former USSR birth certificates as well as passports were confiscated from the relatives of the deceased and exchanged for Death Certificate, which doesn't mention either parents or ethnicity;
2) You'd say, Ok, here in the US people also may loose birth certificates, why don't you ask for a copy. Eureka! Here is the solution! I’ll ask for a copy of the birth certificate from the Russian government! But, wait a minute, another Detail from the Rabbinate - only birth certificate copies that were issued before nineteen eighties are accepted.

Considering that it is not either simple or possible to travel back in time, this task becomes IMPOSSIBLE. Now this Jew becomes non-Jew by decree of very strict Haredi Rabbinate.
Where in Halacha there is a rule that Rabbi can make a non-Jew out of a Jew? Please point me to the place.

Taking in account the “details” the Haredi Rabbinate action in Israel could be named for what it truly is – an Extreme Criminal Abuse of Power.

[steve]

Here's a perfect example why one should not consult a rabbi for business advice(unless he's a financial expert), nor for medical advice (unless he's a physician), nor if you or a loved one are a victim of sexual abuse (unless he's a cop). One should only consult his rabbi for halachic advice, period. Our rabbis are too overwhelmed as it is dealing with issues that they are capable of dealing with. It is not fair to burden them with all these problems. They are not fortune tellers or psychologists:

Editor of Wall Street Journal:

It is never pleasant to see your name in print in a negative connotation, especially in a publication as well regarded as the Wall Street Journal. It is even more disconcerting when the information in about you is wrong.

In the August 15 front-page article, The Rabbi, the Do-Gooder, The Lost $100 Million, the reporter gave readers the impression that I recommended to my congregants that they should feel comfortable investing with fellow congregant Joseph Shereshevsky of Wextrust Capital, now the subject of a federal fraud investigation. That is simply not the case. I told Mr. Shereshevsky himself and potential investors on a number of occasions that I do not give business advice since I have little expertise in that area. When asked by the WSJ why I thought people would invest with Mr. Shereshevsky, I said that I guess people trusted him and you invest with people you trust. I never called him “trustworthy” myself.

Our community is devastated by the charges against Mr. Shereshevsky and the unwanted publicity it has brought to our synagogue. We hope all persons of faith will pray for us as we deal with the damage this matter has caused, both for our congregation and for those who lost money.

Sincerely
Rabbi Chaim Silver
B’nai Israel Congregation
Norfolk, VA

[steve]

Ben,

The whole Russian Jewry situation is very sad. It is unfortunate that the ones that are really Jewish are being victimized by the frauds among them. If you have any better suggestion on how to separate the two groups, other than blindly accepting each person's assertion of their Jewish background, please post it. I understand the difficulty of obtaining valid documents. All I'm suggesting in the absence such documents, is that they undergo a valid conversion due to a safeik.

[maven]

Why are you limiting this to Russian Jewry? I recall when I made aliyah it was very difficult to get myself certified since my parents were holocaust survivors, and that actually delayed my aliyah by six months.
Its important to recognize that already in the Chareidi world most American Jews are suspect, particularly if they or their parents are from anywhere outside of boro park, or were ever chozrim b'teshuva.

I'm assuming that Eliyah is joking, right? But Nachum, are you a nazi? Why is this an "uncomfortable" "fact"? (both words need to be in quotation marks). The only one who genuinely made this claim was Uzi Meshullam, who claimed that all Ashkenazim AND Sepharadim are eirev rav, and when the moshiach comes (with the insinuation that it was him) the pure unintermarried Yemenites will be saved as the true shearith hapleitah (I heard this myself at his talks in Bareket).
Anyway, this pseudo-science of racial anthropology needs to be rapidly discarded in terms of this subject.

[Jason]

As if we needed it...one more indication that, contrary to Archie's beliefs, Jews have no less a propensity to violent crime than others...http://www.forward.com/articles/13991/

[eliyah]

maven - yes, i was joking.

[rebitzman]

eliyah - Beautiful!

[Rachel Batya]

Eliyah--

Brilliant! I read your piece aloud to my husband and found myself laughing so hard I could barely get the words out. Many thanks.

[rebitzman]

eliyah - let me add. I can trace my family (both sides) back to the late 13th century.

I'm guessing that's not far enough - is it?

[eliyah]

13th century! well, to me and most tribal peoples i'm sure that's plenty far enough, but then again i'm not an orthodox rabbi, dayyan or posek so what does my humble opinion matter a fig?

[Jake]

Use to be a time when a person went on Aliyah they just accepted your US drivers license and let you import a car with immigrant rights.

Ah then came massive Russian immigration and they discovered that many Russians came with forged drivers licenses in order to take advatange of this immigranrt right.

( NOte the right was only bestowed on those who came on Aliyah with a valid drivers license from their country of origin.)

Now every oleh must take one driving lesson and then a road test to have their foreign license accpeted.

Use to be that board certified physicians would come to Israel and their certification was automatically accpeted. Then came the massive Russian aliyah. ( The second wave which was for the most part not idealistically based as wave number 1 was.) That has now chaged as well.

At one point Russians would do whatever they could to get out of the Soviet Union including providing forged documentation as to their being 1/4 Jewish so they woudld qualify for aliyah.

Being accepted as an immigrant only requires Hitler's definition of who is a Jew. One grandparent having been a Jew.
Serving and eveing dieing in the IDF does not make one a Jew. ( Druze, Cherkesians ,Christians etc.)

Being a member of Israel's olympic team does not make one a Jew. ( Please note I have no posiiton on this woman's Jewish identity.) Just a citzen of Israel who is on the Olympic team.

Yes there are problems with the current Rabbinate but lets not be ostriches and ignore real issues as to who is a Jew.

[Jake]

Note re drivers licenses in Israel

If an Israeli wants to get a drivers license they must take approximatly 30 drivers lessons wiht a licensed instructor to qualify for a road test. ( yes it is a racket.)

Olim wiht valid foreing driver's licenses only need to have one lesson and then with the approval of the driving instructor they can qualify for the road test with only ones session.

[Ben]

Steve,
I agree with when you said "whole Russian Jewry situation is very sad". I can not agree with your second statement: "really Jewish are being victimized by the frauds among them".

The Russians are not victimized by the frauds among them. They are victimized by the frauds in the Rabbinate.

As for solutions, I'll write about them next week.

[Just an apirkores]

Forgive me, but the comments of those of you defending the rabbinate here a damned appalling. Just appalling...

...we have enough Jews in the world that we make those who want to be a part of us go through unnecessary bureaucratic hoops. Absurd....

[Let Down]

The comments of those defending the rabbinate aren't appalling because they prevent those who want to be Jews from becoming part of the fold. The comments are appalling because these are human beings we are talking about, who have every right to happiness without a group of deranged, insecure, power-mad old men directing them to squelch whatever desires they have in this life in return for their leading them to a dubious eternity of happiness in some unproven afterlife.

Once we're dead, we have ZERO interest in how many Jews, Muslims, Blacks, Whites, or whatever other classifications there are roaming the Earth. None. This is all mind control to keep the least worthy of leadership in power and to take your mind off pleasure so you are more malleable in their hands. And it's a shame.

Damn your rabbis, families, or whoever will sit shiva for you or judge against you if you marry a non-Jew or marry outside the fold, or decree YOU outside the fold. Your happiness should come before theirs. It's a crying shame I believed the twaddle of my rabbi and family until so late in the game that I still have problems realizing why I am with any particular girl: To make my "community" happy, or to make ME happy.

We have enough turmoil and prejudice in the world without having to add the totally unnecessary and extremely transparent pedigree of religious purity and supremacy to the mix.

All the false prophets of Judaism (and other religions) who would seek to deny another's happiness over some perverse concern for God's order when they really are concerned about their own power base can gey kockn afn yam.

I doubt God would be so petty as to give as much as a passing whit over who we marry and why. If he does care, then the entire religious community better snap themselves out of their stupors and realize we are all one people, promptly.

[An oleh - soon a yored]

You want to become an antisemite?

Do aliyah.

[mordechai]

I don't understand the problem. Halacha tells us who is a Jew and who is not. In Judaism Jewishness is determined by the mother, and with out the proof (halachikly accepted proof) she can not be verified as being Jewish by Halacha, and therefore you should have no complaint of the Rabbinate.

[Let Down]

Mordechai, I have no problem with your justification of your stance. Just that in my opinion, the stance itself is an ass.

Look at how much energy is being expended defining who is or isn't a Jew, whether someone could get married or not, who they should marry, being accepted into a specific cult group based on their genealogy . . . all for what? To ensure the power of those who are so uptight, insecure, and dictatorial that they don't dare let someone be happy without them giving their stamp of approval.

It's looking like Israeli halakhic law is becoming no better than Saudi Arabia's Sharia law in ensuring that a few self-ordained keepers of the faith dictate to the masses how to live their lives, while they themselves rot from within with their own scandals of pedophilia and dishonesty amply chronicled on this site.

It's a power and money grab. It has nothing anymore to do with God.

[rebitzman]

++I don't understand the problem.++

I'm sure you don't.

I'm equally sure that no line of logic will sway you - because you really don't care. However - for those who are NOT practicing self colonoscopy I will try to explain.

1. Russian Jews had to leave - now - they did not have the benefit time, and even if they had time - the government allowed them to take precious more than the clothes on their back - they certainly did not have the luxury of bringing their "proof" of Jew-ness with them. Are YOU willing to accept that were you (God forbid) to be forced from YOUR house and life, that YOU could be declared goyim, because all you were able to bring were the clothes you were wearing? No?

Didn't think so.

2. It never occurred to them (or me) that such proof would be required.

3. THEY HAVE PAID IN BLOOD and persecution and have earned the right to be called Jews (while you - you sanctimonious little twit - would very likely start eating ham and singing "What a Friend We Have in Jesus" if you had to face 1/10th the tzuris of these noble JEWS).

4. I don't have a "card" that declares me a Jew - neither do you.

5. No rabbi - not ONE has the right to revoke anyone's Jewishness.

Bottom line - this is just another case of a runaway rabbinate more interested in preserving their positions and status than they are with preserving anything Jewish.

[Rachel Batya]

Mordechai--

One of the many problems at hand is that the documentation required to prove one's Jewishness is simply impossible to obtain for many, many people. This is clear both from the original article, and from ben and nachum's comments.

Halacha is not supposed to be a straitjacket. It has always adapted itself to the particular circumstances of different communities across time and geography. Surely, in this case, the rabbinate needs to be cognizant of the fact that they are putting an impossible burden on the community when they demand documents that people simply cannot get. Setting up this requirement, and then telling people that if they can't meet the bar, they can always have an Orthodox conversion, shows incredibly bad faith. Its only virtue is that it makes clear the rabbis' real agenda--to manipulate people into O conversions in order to recognize them as Jews.

And by the way, this lack of access to documentation doesn't just affect Jews who flee persecution. I'm an American Jew and can trace my ancestry back to pre-expulsion Spain, but I don't have access to my grandmother's birth certificate either. All that the records office in Boston has is a handwritten list of names showing the children born during the same month and year as my grandmother. She is on the list, but there is no indication of her parents' religion, and her mother's name was so badly mangled by the non-Jewish records keeper that it sounds Swedish instead of Jewish.

Does this mean that I'm not a Jew? That every shul I've ever attended needs to re-kasher its kitchen, just in case, because I worked there and you just never know, maybe I ate a ham sandwich as I was stirring the matzo ball soup? It's absolutely nuts--and that's the kind word for it.

[Nachum]

Jason, I was joking as well- going along with Eliyah's post. The tangled origins of the Jewish people interest me, but don't really bother me.

Steve, she should just convert, huh? That simple? First, imagine the hoops she'd have to jump through to do that. Imagine that every descendant of hers forever would have to worry if someone would invalidate her conversion. Imagine if she's not frum and doesn't want to be. Imagine if she wants to marry a Kohen.

Above all, imagine someone telling *you* that you have to convert.

[Bartley Kulp]

This is an unfortunate result of galus. However the fact that she represents Israel on the olympic team does not elicit any more sympathy for her from me. There are thousands of unfortunate individuals who are in bureaucratic limbo.

The fact is that many changes have taken place with the Jewish people over the past few hundred years making many rulings inaplicable. In the times of Ezra there was a similar delema on what to do with people whos lineage was in doubt. They were mass converted l'chumra.

There are a lot of things that I may not like about the rabbinate, however one must realize their limitations in being able to process people without documentation. Hundreds of thousands of people come from all over the world with their stories. Believe it or not many people will brandish false witnesses (this is not paranoia but a fact)in order to facilitate their claims. The ministry of the interior itself will not admit undocumented people into the country without testimony from some sort of known community leader. Outside of some place like the Cayman Islands, no bureaucracy in the world would register somebody whos acceptance criteria would be undocumented. If there were witnesses to back up this person they would need it from some sort of recognized official.

[Ben]

Rabbinate doesn't give Russians an option of giur lehumra. This option is given to Ethiopians, but not to Russians. Russians suppose to go through regular conversion procedure.
However, as of this year it no longer makes any sense, since any giur made by the Rabbinate is in essence CONDITIONAL and could be revoked by ANY Rabbi many years down the road (some people happen to remember case of Rabbi Drukman's converts and their children)

[Bartley Kulp]

Rebitzman the angry blogger said...

"I'm equally sure that no line of logic will sway you - because you really don't care. However - for those who are NOT practicing self colonoscopy I will try to explain."

Rebitzman, Rebitzman, Rebitzman. You said;
"Russian Jews had to leave - now - they did not have the benefit time, and even if they had time - the government allowed them to take precious more than the clothes on their back."

Really? That drastic? Did they only have time to take matza with them because their doe did not have time to rise? I am not aware that these people were forced to flee and were dispossessed. It was not about luxury. Some people had documentation and some did not (unfortunately).

You said;
"It never occurred to them (or me) that such proof would be required."

This is b.s.! It never occurred to people who were raised in a police state that they would need documentation. That they could just show up at the Jewish agency singing "if I were a rich man" like Tuvya? Did the people from the Jewish agency not turn away people who did not have documentation? Give me a break. Moreover you did not know that all Israelis religious and secular alike have to bring documentation to the rabbinate? You really have know experties in this matter and you should not be preaching to the choir.

You then wined;
"THEY HAVE PAID IN BLOOD and persecution and have earned the right to be called Jews"

Before you screech at everybody with your sanctimonious hot air. Keep in mind that many of these people who payed in blood have brought neo-nazism to this country as well as x-mas sales to the Israeli culture. I suspect that most of those people presented themselves falsely to the Israeli officials. Now most Russians that I know are very sincere people but there is a reason why there is a filtering process.

You then said;
"I don't have a "card" that declares me a Jew - neither do you."

You once mentioned that you have a son. Did you get married in an Orthodox ceremony? Either you showed your card which usually consists of your parents ketuba or some other document or there were recognized community leaders who knew your family. Why should the rabbinate be less stringent that most other orthodox institutions world wide. Do you think that Israel is the only7 country that has Russian Jewish immigrants?

You then declared;
"No rabbi - not ONE has the right to revoke anyone's Jewishness."

Well said, I could not agree more however nobody was calling the woman in this article a shiksa. They just would not register her for marriage.

You then finished with this rant;
"Bottom line - this is just another case of a runaway rabbinate more interested in preserving their positions and status than they are with preserving anything Jewish."

So causing political storms which bring down the wrath of politicians and the supreme court (as is happening now) works to their advantage how?

I personally think that the rabbinate should be dismantled. Although my reasons are not so emotionally based as the ones that you have posted.

[Ben]

Bartley Kulp, I agree that there must be some process to establish Jewishness of a person. The problem is that he method currently practiced by the Rabbinate is deficient.
By the way, many American Jews that are not connected to an established Jewish community would not be able to prove their Jewishness if method that is currently applied almost exclusively to the Soviet Jews would be applied to their cases.
As for Christmas trees in Israel, it is sad, but look around US and you'd find plenty of Halachic (matrelineal) Jews putting them here as well. Also many of them are going to church. The same, unfortunately, goes on in Russia today as well.
Sometimes I wonder whether or not the humras of Haredi ruled Rabbinate is partially to blame for this situation.

[david]

I don't understand the problem.

Of course you don't. Because sheep don't give a rat's ass about anything other than shitting and chewing their cud, while the actual human beings among us care about such crazy values as dignity, freedom, and a few other things other than obedience and boot-licking servility. At least the bovine herds in Saudi Arabia and Afganistan have the excuse that they were born into their brutish theocracies; the Israelis have no excuse whatever for subjugating themselves to this cabal of scheming, money-grubbing religious huslters.

First of all, this doesn't have a damn thing to do with halacha; this disgusting emphasis on purity of Jew blood is simply the most recent evidence of the continuing descent of the ultra-Orthodox establishment into a cesspool of ignorance and fanaticism. The real question is when America's Jews are going to finally wake up and recognize this state of affairs. Of course, Israel has the right to do whatever the hell it wants. And the American Jewish community should refuse to give another dime to any institution in the State of Israel that isn't committed to a total and immediate end to this loathsome discrimination.

[Bartley Kulp]

"As for Christmas trees in Israel, it is sad, but look around US and you'd find plenty of Halachic (matrelineal) Jews putting them here as well. Also many of them are going to church."

What you are saying is true however generally American immigrants do not take their x-mas tree baggage with them to Israel.

Also what you are saying about Jews not connected to a Jewish community in the US is also correct. This is backing up what I am saying. Everybody has to bring documentation or witnesses in the form of community leaders to the table. However this is to be expected. If one wants to immigrate to Israel period you need this documentation for the Jewish agency and the ministry of the interior. As you would

This is not some hareidi chumra. Even dati leumi require this. We live in the global st century. Granted that there are some rabbinic clerics who are more helpful than others, but that is in any bureaucracy. But if you think that the rabbinate is bad, you do not know the beast that is the ministry of the interior. For people who try to immigrate from inside the country look out. Many people with proper documents get held up by bureaucratic mistakes. They overstay their visas while trying to straighten things out and then that same bureaucracy sicks the police on them.

[Bartley Kulp]

David said...

"First of all, this doesn't have a damn thing to do with halacha; this disgusting emphasis on purity of Jew blood is simply the most recent evidence of the continuing descent of the ultra-Orthodox establishment into a cesspool of ignorance and fanaticism."

Nobody cares about pure Jewish blood. However that blood has to be matralineage. This is not a recent ultra-orthodox chumra. Everybody agrees with this except the conservative and reformed. There is absolutely no argument about this or minority opinions. The only thing that is new is your raving like an ignorant lunatic. I however give you the benefit of the doubt. You are not ignorant, you are just trying to grind your axe. Please bring something in the relm of relevant facts to an adult discussion. Not a bunch of lunatic ravings.

[Isa]

Regarding:""For example, a requirement to present birth certificate of maternal grand mother seems simple enough right? ""

My wife's grandmother never had a birth certificate because in Wishik, North Dakota, one did not have to register children (circa turn of the century).OK then how about the grandmother's parents Ketuba? The house burned down cause an oil lantern got tipped over.
Now when we were going to get married, my rabbi asked about the lineage of my wife.I told my rabbi that somebody on her side made up a chart with the lineage going back to 1600 to 1700, which I had seen.

[rebitzman]

++Really? That drastic? Did they only have time to take matza with them because their doe did not have time to rise?++

Yes - and if you took the time to study OR HAD taken the time to get involved when these people were rescued - you'd know this.

But you weren't and don't.

++So causing political storms which bring down the wrath of politicians and the supreme court (as is happening now) works to their advantage how?++

It's called power - it's called control.

They don't care about the wrath of politicians - they CONTROL the politicians because of that power.

++You once mentioned that you have a son. Did you get married in an Orthodox ceremony? Either you showed your card which usually consists of your parents ketuba or some other document or there were recognized community leaders who knew your family.++

I have two sons and two daughters - and no, I was not asked to prove anything - to anyone, and I did not grow up in the community in which I was married.

REAL sorry to hear about you living in one where it is assumed you are a liar.

[Rachel Batya]

"Nobody cares about pure Jewish blood. However that blood has to be matralineage. This is not a recent ultra-orthodox chumra. Everybody agrees with this except the conservative and reformed."

Speaking of relevant facts, the last I looked, C Judaism requires matrilineal descent. And "everybody" who agrees with this happens to consist only of C and O Jews. The rest of us are happy to recognize as Jewish those who actually practice Judaism and whose tie to the Jewish people is sincere and profound.

There is nothing more disgraceful than a mother being unable to bury in a Jewish cemetary a child who considered himself Jewish and died fighting for Eretz Yisroel. And it's past disgraceful when the only reason is that they didn't have the necessary paperwork in order before said child died a violent and untimely death.

[Ben]

Isa, yours was good and reasonable Rabbi. The chart approach is not available to Russians in Israel because of "what if". What if the chart is a forgery?
As for ketuba's burning in the "oil" fire. This situation is very typical. The areas where Jews lived in Russia were overrun by 3 wars. WWI (4 years), Russian civil war (3-4 years) and finally WWII. Many documents were destroyed in the first two wars. In the last one, almost ALL the documents of the great majority of Jews remained in the zone occupied by the Germans during WWII and were destroyed. Most of synagogues and their archives were burned.
But even if you are one of the few lucky ones that could go to archive and trace your lineage with documents, the copies are viewed with suspicion by the Rabbinate.

[rebitzman]

"Nobody cares about pure Jewish blood. However that blood has to be matralineage. This is not a recent ultra-orthodox chumra. Everybody agrees with this except the conservative and reformed."

Actually - Conservative Judaism does insist on matralineal descent to establish Jewish identity.

[rebitzman]

++The areas where Jews lived in Russia were overrun by 3 wars. WWI (4 years), Russian civil war (3-4 years) and finally WWII. Many documents were destroyed in the first two wars. In the last one, almost ALL the documents of the great majority of Jews remained in the zone occupied by the Germans during WWII and were destroyed.++

And everywhere else in Europe.....

So I suppose those Jews who survived the Shoah aren't really Jews at all.

[rebitzman]

Karo is reported to have said that he regretted that he would not live long enough to write a 5th volume - one he said he would title "Common Sense".

[Let Down]

Can't you see just by how much heat and acromony that is generated in just one microcosmic thread that all this checking, verification, pedigree, and gatekeeping is just a bunch of unnecessary hogwash?

THESE ARE PEOPLE'S LIVES, FEELINGS AND HAPPINESS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE and we're trying to curtail their pursuit of happiness because of what? Because an archaic, overly-regulatory, self-serving belief system is dictating to this woman and other unfortunate souls that they're not good enough, proper enough, or pedigree enough to enjoy the privileges of the belief system they [dementedly] so much want to be a part of.

It makes me sick. Parts of my own family think this way too, and damn me if I have to choose between my happiness (estranging my family) and their happiness (reducing me to a puppet) because of this petty pride and mind control.

We laugh at Sharia law (as well we should) for being so restrictive, discriminatory and Draconian, but we think nothing about the petty, paranoid self-preservation nonsense promulgated within our own ranks. And when we die, we have zero further interest in the subject. We've simply yoked our young into propagating what we wanted without any stake in the outcome.

Let the swimmer marry who she wants. Let her marry a Jew, a shvartzer, an Arab . . . whoever. It's her right as a human being. Let the rabbinate mind its own business and concentrate on its own dirty laundry.

Mazeltov to the mindbenders. They've achieved what they wanted -- universal suffering with them insulated from it at the helm.

[WoolSIlkCotton]

Let Down, I feel exactly the same way you do. Your thoughts are the same as mine, and probably many many other guys and gals out there reading this, and lots more who aren't aware of this blogsite.
The medieval mindset of the black hat crowd will be their undoing, no matter how many babies their wives keep cranking out. They will end up completely marginalized, like the lunatic christian cults walled off in compounds in Texas, eventually to be taken out in handcuffs by Federal marshals, or all of them being commanded by their rebbe to drink the Kool Aid.

Haredim on the West Bank are already planning violent assaults on the Israel Army. That may very well be their Waterloo.

[rebitzman]

++commanded by their rebbe to drink the Kool Aid.++

Hekshered by the OU!

[Rachel Batya]

"THESE ARE PEOPLE'S LIVES, FEELINGS AND HAPPINESS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE"

OhmyG-d, Let Down, are you suggesting that we think about the feelings of actual human beings when the survival of the Jewish people is at stake? Certainly you understand that writing Jews out of the Jewish people only makes us stronger and more vital, don't you? What would become of us if we showed a little leniency in an impossible situation toward people willing to live and die for the Jewish state? I shudder to think.

I, for one, am grateful that the Israeli rabbinate is stemming the flood-tide of goyim who, for their own obscure but no doubt nefarious purposes, wish to join our happy little tribe. I mean, look at the logic--you join the Jewish people, and you get to be persecuted by both non-Jews *and* Jews. What's up with that? What kind people would want to join under these circumstances? This is a mindset that must be strictly discouraged, or our people will be destroyed from within by halachically non-Jewish lunatics. Thank G-d the Israeli rabbinate is on top of the situation.

[rebitzman]

++Certainly you understand that writing Jews out of the Jewish people only makes us stronger and more vital, don't you? ++

It does more than that - it empowers the goyishe world to EASILY disenfranchise our people.

Side note - if the woman actually NEEDS her parents' ketubah to prove her Jeiwshness - she can actually go to ebay and BUY one from the era - already filled out and signed.

Every bit as honest as what the rabbis are pulling (that is to say - not at all).

[Let Down]

Rachel, I admire and bow down to your superb Yiddisher sarcasm. But even if what you said were true, I am cynically beginning to believe that the preservation of the Judaic pedigree and heritage is not in anybody's best interest.

As a Jew who was never brought up as Kosher, but has been raised to understand and respect his heritage, I find the subjects of anti-Semitism and Jew hatred quite fascinating. "Why," I ask, "Do people seek to hate those who, as a group, have probably contributed more to the wellbeing of ALL groups day for day, era for era?"

I have my hypotheses. They center on Jewish public relations with the rest of society. I feel that through stories amply chronicled here, the Jewish people made their own beds. Of course, some of the problem is jealousy, but I feel that the Jews as a people did nothing to dispel that jealousy by acting in an exclusive and arrogant manner throughout history. "We don't need you, but you seem to need us" is the attitude many Jewish scholars and rabbis seem to take, and this story is a glaring example. And then, the perpetrators have the unmitigated chutzpah to think they can wipe away all this wickedness with a few incantations on a Saturday, every Saturday, as a matter of right.

Like I said, I am let down by all the skeletons I am finding in the Jewish closet. And presumably like Shmarya, I believe that love of the Jewish people includes telling the cold, hard facts about ourselves despite it not putting the best face on our community.

Judaism is supposed to be a celebration, not a torment. No wonder so many of us are in therapy. We can no longer sit on this yawning pit of lies, deceit, and power-madness without it making us feel too guilty to function on our own.

Only after we root out the evil, the bonditts, and the gonevim in our midst, can we be respected and work to the reform that belies our alleged "chosen" status. As self-proclaimed leaders, we must be beyond reproach. The stories found within this site only give fuel to those who don't have our interests at heart, and I am sad to say, they could be right.

[Rachel Batya]

"I am cynically beginning to believe that the preservation of the Judaic pedigree and heritage is not in anybody's best interest."

And here I disagree with you vehemently.

I believe that one of the reasons we Jews have been persecuted for so long is precisely because we have refused to bow down to man-made deities, power structures, idols, and ideals. To me, this is at the core of Shmarya's work--he refuses to bow down to anything that offends his conscience--and, ironically, it is why he has been shunned and vilified by so many of our own people. Those who bow down to any power structure, including the rabbinate, are not honoring our people's reason for being. We weren't chosen because we are better than other people. We were chosen for the particular mission of showing the world that real power and real wealth have nothing to do with the idols of status and money, but with proper intent and right action. As Heschel said, a Jew is a person who "builds a cathedral that only G-d can see."

I don't feel that any individual or group is to blame for their own persecution, no matter what kinds of chillul hashem they may engage in. Everyone has free will and cannot blame someone else for his/her own violent or otherwise unethical actions (defense of one's life being a clear exception, to my mind). That being said, we must not give anti-semites any ammunition against us, rather in the same way that a woman ought not to walk home down a darkened alley in the middle of the night drunk and unclothed. If she gets raped, it isn't her fault--it's the rapist's fault--but she could have been smarter about keeping herself safe.

[WoolSIlkCotton]

Let Down, don't dismay.
Jews along the entire continuum of religiosity have existed, yes, and even thrived, for thousands of years. Not all Jews since the dawn of civilization have been Orthodox, and yet we are all still here. Most Jews in the world are not Orthodox; never have been, and never will be.
Moderation has always worked best for every religion, and the vast majority of people of every religion are moderate in their beliefs and observance. The extremists, fanatics and third-world types make the most noise and get the most attention.

There is a broad spectrum of belief and observance, and us Jews are all over it; many of us travel along the spectrum, in any given direction, on a regular basis. No matter what you think you are, there is always someone more religious and someone less religious than you.

Judaism has withstood the test of time because of its inherent virtue. If it is ever considered no longer good and morally desirable, that's when all of us will go the way of the dinosaurs; not because of physical attack, G-d forbid, but our own abandonment of a system we deem no longer worth maintaining.

I am as harsh a critic as anyone is of the Hassidic/Haredi, but I know they are self-limiting here in the USA, and will eventually push their luck just a bit too far in Israel. As soon as they physically assault Israeli soldiers, as they are planning to do on the West Bank, watch the reaction of the people of Israel.

If there is something good to come out of the exposure of Hassidic/Haredi malfeasance, it's that everyone's core beliefs have been shaken, and dialogues have been open amongst Jews of all kinds, even if those dialogues get a little nasty sometimes. We are all struggling with the implications and repercussions.

I truly believe in the goodness and greatness of the USA, Israel, and the fair-mindedness of their peoples. Fanatics and extremists are allowed to exist, but they never thrive outside of their own perverse little worlds.

[Rachel Batya]

WoolSilkCotton, well said. I couldn't agree more.

[rebitzman]

++Not all Jews since the dawn of civilization have been Orthodox++

Right wing Judiasm today is a construct that Moshe Rabbeinu simply would not recognize. Infact, the Jews of the "dawn of civilization" would look at charedi Jews today and say "what the....?"

[Rachel Batya]

--Infact, the Jews of the "dawn of civilization" would look at charedi Jews today and say "what the....?"--

Just look at the story of Ruth and Naomi. How did Ruth become a Jew? "They walked the path together." Naomi's people became her people, Naomi's G-d became her G-d. Simple. Just leave it to the women to get it right.

Of course, there is a midrash that says that Naomi taught Torah to Ruth during their long journey together, thus making her conversion valid, which is both wonderfully imaginative and incredibly ludicrous. I mean, they get to the end of their journey, and when everyone is saying "Hey, Naomi, good to see you again," she says that her name should be Marah, because G-d has made her life so bitter. Now if she had been teaching Torah to Ruth all along the road, wouldn't Naomi have felt slightly more spiritually elevated than that?

[Isa]

Two more generations...
Most American Jews will be in the same predicament as Russian Jews today.
Unless you can prove not only were you were FFB but your great-grandparents were FFB.
I can just see it now...
In matters of inheritance there will be great fights to see who gets the deceased's Ketuba.

FFB= frum from birth

[Let Down]

Rachel, et al, I thank you for your kind words and well-worded rebuttals. Maybe my views are simply reactionary to a great deal of knee-jerk upset those with the "best of intentions" had for me and their own faith at my expense. It's understandable enough.

But I tell you this: Rachel, if I were to ask you out on a date, and by some nes gadol you were to say "yes," there would come a time or three when I would begin to wonder why I was with you. Was it to make my family happy, or was it because you were my beshert regardless of anybody else's opinion in the matter?

That's unfair to me, that's unfair to you, that's unfair to everybody involved.

And just think: In New York City and the surrounding area, let's assume there are one million Jews. I'm male, so let's assume half are men, leaving 500,000 Jewish women for me to marry.

Let's say half of those are religious and either are married off shadkhans or otherwise want nothing to do with someone non-religious like I. That leaves 250,000 Jewish women to choose from.

They say sixty percent of Jewish people intermarry, meaning 150,000 are marrying shaygetzes, probably in defiance of their families to prove a point, and that leaves 100,000 Jewish women for me as prospective mates.

And did you see those 100,000? The chain smokers, the Prozac addicts, the spinsters, the JAPs, the bubbly ignorant kindergarten teacher types . . . the list goes on. And this is what my family deems is a suitable sphere of eligibles, only to perpetuate a faith that can't keep its own house in order?

There are over three billion women in this world. There are maybe seven million Jews worldwide. Using the same proportions as in my example above, only two-tenths of one percent of the world's population is eligible to me for marriage. All because a few people who think their presence is larger than life hath decreed that this is how it's going to be.

Nevermind my happiness and the happiness of thousands upon thousands of similarly-situated souls. Nevermind the happiness of a swimmer who wants to start a life in Israel, contribute positively to Jewish society whether or not she is Jewish. What these rabbis are doing isn't Godly. If it were, I would question my allegiance to such an arrogant and jealous deity. I already have, and am quite happy calling the question if it makes those I am calling it to -- those I purportedly love -- call it as well and improve themselves by answering it.

I don't believe that the purpose of Judaism, or any other religion, is to be a beacon to God. Judaism, more than most religions, yokes a heavy burden on its adherents to suppress desire, keeping them close to the leader of their congregation. Our holidays are restrictive and concentrate on recalling misery rather than celebrating strength.

There are ulterior purposes in ensuring your adherents spend 50% of their off time and 1/7 of their life unable to function in a modern society. There is a great deal of submission to eating tasteless, overpriced meat and not being able to enjoy a bowl of ice cream immediately after eating a hamburger.

You talk about "free will," but how come God revoked the free will of the Egyptians and Israelites by drowning the Egyptians in the Red Sea for enslaving the Israelites? Why did he have such a stake in the wellbeing of the Israelites in Egypt, but not once did he intervene in other atrocities like September 11, the Holocaust, and other inhuman acts ostensibly fought in his name in modern times?

Haverim, I feel our rabbis are revoking our free will the same way Kim Jong Il and others revoke the free wills of their subjects. I believe the time has come for a Judaic reformation similar to what has occurred in Christianity. Such obsession over minutiae is eating up precious resources for happiness during the short time we have on this earth.

I say this all with the utmost of respect, and tikva that I can come to peace with myself and allow Judaism to flourish as a force of good rather than wanton repression.

Shalom.

[Let Down]

Rachel, et al, I thank you for your kind words and well-worded rebuttals. Maybe my views are simply reactionary to a great deal of knee-jerk upset those with the "best of intentions" had for me and their own faith at my expense. It's understandable enough.

But I tell you this: Rachel, if I were to ask you out on a date, and by some nes gadol you were to say "yes," there would come a time or three when I would begin to wonder why I was with you. Was it to make my family happy, or was it because you were my beshert regardless of anybody else's opinion in the matter?

That's unfair to me, that's unfair to you, that's unfair to everybody involved.

And just think: In New York City and the surrounding area, let's assume there are one million Jews. I'm male, so let's assume half are men, leaving 500,000 Jewish women for me to marry.

Let's say half of those are religious and either are married off shadkhans or otherwise want nothing to do with someone non-religious like I. That leaves 250,000 Jewish women to choose from.

They say sixty percent of Jewish people intermarry, meaning 150,000 are marrying shaygetzes, probably in defiance of their families to prove a point, and that leaves 100,000 Jewish women for me as prospective mates.

And did you see those 100,000? The chain smokers, the Prozac addicts, the spinsters, the JAPs, the bubbly ignorant kindergarten teacher types . . . the list goes on. And this is what my family deems is a suitable sphere of eligibles, only to perpetuate a faith that can't keep its own house in order?

There are over three billion women in this world. There are maybe seven million Jews worldwide. Using the same proportions as in my example above, only two-tenths of one percent of the world's population is eligible to me for marriage. All because a few people who think their presence is larger than life hath decreed that this is how it's going to be.

Nevermind my happiness and the happiness of thousands upon thousands of similarly-situated souls. Nevermind the happiness of a swimmer who wants to start a life in Israel, contribute positively to Jewish society whether or not she is Jewish. What these rabbis are doing isn't Godly. If it were, I would question my allegiance to such an arrogant and jealous deity. I already have, and am quite happy calling the question if it makes those I am calling it to -- those I purportedly love -- call it as well and improve themselves by answering it.

I don't believe that the purpose of Judaism, or any other religion, is to be a beacon to God. Judaism, more than most religions, yokes a heavy burden on its adherents to suppress desire, keeping them close to the leader of their congregation. Our holidays are restrictive and concentrate on recalling misery rather than celebrating strength.

There are ulterior purposes in ensuring your adherents spend 50% of their off time and 1/7 of their life unable to function in a modern society. There is a great deal of submission to eating tasteless, overpriced meat and not being able to enjoy a bowl of ice cream immediately after eating a hamburger.

You talk about "free will," but how come God revoked the free will of the Egyptians and Israelites by drowning the Egyptians in the Red Sea for enslaving the Israelites? Why did he have such a stake in the wellbeing of the Israelites in Egypt, but not once did he intervene in other atrocities like September 11, the Holocaust, and other inhuman acts ostensibly fought in his name in modern times?

Haverim, I feel our rabbis are revoking our free will the same way Kim Jong Il and others revoke the free wills of their subjects. I believe the time has come for a Judaic reformation similar to what has occurred in Christianity. Such obsession over minutiae is eating up precious resources for happiness during the short time we have on this earth.

I say this all with the utmost of respect, and tikva that I can come to peace with myself and allow Judaism to flourish as a force of good rather than wanton repression.

Shalom.

[Herschel]

Nobody cares about pure Jewish blood. However that blood has to be matralineage. This is not a recent ultra-orthodox chumra. Everybody agrees with this except the conservative and reformed.

You mean the Karaites and the Reformed. They accept patrilinial descent.

The Conservatives, as do the Orthodox, insist on matrilinial descent.

[Rachel Batya]

Hi Let Down--

You wrote: "You talk about "free will," but how come God revoked the free will of the Egyptians and Israelites by drowning the Egyptians in the Red Sea for enslaving the Israelites?"

In the long ago and far away, when I was a child in Hebrew school, we were studying the story of the Exodus. Someone in the class asked the teacher whether Moses had really lived and the Exodus had really happened. I don't recall the teacher's answer because everything in me knew that the question being asked was the wrong question. I knew then, as I know now, that it made no difference to me at all whether these stories were factual. I intuitively understood that they were written by human beings, inspired by G-d to greater or lesser degrees. What mattered was the energy they generated in me and the kind of life they inspired me to live. What was the greater miracle--that G-d thwomped the Egyptians, or that a group of Jews living in a world of oppression had the incredible insight that G-d wants to free slaves, overturn oppressive social institutions, and create justice in the world? To me, the latter miracle is far more compelling.

As I've gone through struggles similar to yours, I've come to the conclusion that studying Torah is a process that prepares one for engaging life with a critical and ethical mind. That is, when I read Torah, I listen to my conscience about what belongs to G-d versus what reflects the thoughts of human beings who are sometimes limited in their understanding. So when I read that G-d took away Pharaoh's free will, I do two things. First, I have some rachmones for the person who wrote that, who was probably trying very hard to understand G-d and didn't hit the center of the target. And then, I allow myself to let my own experience of G-d be present as I study. And this is what I try to do in life itself--to see the things that people say and do, to determine whether I believe they are ethically correct, to respect my own conscience, and to act accordingly. The Torah is full of ethical compexity, just like the world itself. And being able to struggle with Torah is the best preparation I've found for struggling with life itself.

I have to disagree with you about our sacred days being restrictive and full of misery. If that is the way that people celebrate them where you live, I'm sorry, but they are doing it wrong! In our family, we celebrate the holidays with a lot of joy--even Yom Kippur, which we observe mainly outside of shul in a very meditative way. I don't observe Tisha B'Av, mainly because I've had enough pain and sadness in my life that I don't need to go looking for more, but even on Tisha B'Av, one is not supposed to be miserable. It is said that on Tisha B'Av, joy diminishes (as in Adar joy increases). It doesn't say that joy goes away altogether.

Let Down, don't let anyone steal your joy. And don't live the life others want you to live. Live the life *you* want to live. It's the only way that you can serve G-d with any integrity. Each of us has a unique purpose in this world, and a unique mission. Only you and G-d know what yours is, and I hope you will be able to find it, name it, and feel joyful as you carry it out.

Much shalom to you--

[WoolSIlkCotton]

Let Down, a lot of us (especially me and you!) are struggling with this same stuff. Learn from me: Find a good therapist; make sure it is not a religious Jewish therapist. Do not go to a rabbi for therapy.
Here is a very radical idea, which you and others here may not like: Make friends with people who are not Jewish. Try going on a date with a woman who is not Jewish. There are a lot of nonjewish people out there with the same difficulties we have, but with the mess that their religion has become. You will be amazed at the common ground we all have over this.
Nonjewish people appreciate our thoughts and viewpoints a lot more than you can imagine. They are surprised to discover that we grapple with the same religious difficulties that they do.

[Rachel Batya]

"Nonjewish people appreciate our thoughts and viewpoints a lot more than you can imagine. They are surprised to discover that we grapple with the same religious difficulties that they do."

That is certainly true. My first marriage was to a non-Jewish man, and we had many of the same difficulties regarding religion and religious hypocrisy. He was the first person I'd been able to talk to about G-d and religion, and ultimately, our conversations led me back to Judaism. Plus, because he wasn't Jewish, it was completely up to me to educate and raise our daughter as a Jew. And so I immersed myself in Judaism and starting practicing it seriously, which would never have happened had I married a non-religious Jewish man (and non-religious people were the only ones I was interested in at the time). Our marriage ultimately didn't last, but it had nothing to do with religion.

Now I am married to a Jewish man, who is my basherte, we have worked together as lay rabbis, and we have an amazing Jewish life. Life works a little differently than we plan it. Do you know the Yiddish saying? "If you want to give G-d a laugh, tell him your plans"?

Let Down, talk to whomever you want, love whomever you want, believe whatever you want. Hold your head high and don't let anyone make you feel ashamed of yourself. If you are true to yourself, you are being true to G-d, and only good can come of that.

[Mikhael]

A lot of secular American Jews can face the same problem. I'm planning on making aliyah eventually. I found a copy of my parents' (Conservative) ketuba from the 1950s. I can also get my day school records. But who knows if that will be enough for halakhic marriage in Israel? I saw my maternal grandparents' Hungarian passports from the 1930s once, which lists them as "Iszralit" (if I remember correctly) but I can't locate those documents in the mess that is my parents' house at the moment. ANyone remmeber the article written by Zeev Chafets about a year ago in the Times describing the rigamarole that the daughter of a secular American Jew and a British non-Jew had to go through to make aliyah and get married halakhically in Israel?

[Miriam]

They should accept them into Judaism. All the Russian Jews living in Israel and abroad, even the ones that faked papers. They should do this because the conversion authorities should not be a divisive force within Judaism. They shouldn't stand in the way of Jewish unity or expel Jews who are actually Jewish. They have no right to do this! I believe it is worse to expel and alienate someone who is actually Jewish than to accept someone who isn't Jewish into our religion! You are supposed to love your neighbor as yourself and you wouldn't want your fellow Jew to do this to you! What if it was your identity being questioned? They have no right to say who is and who isn't Jewish as they are not elected leaders of the entire Jewish people! Most of the Jewish population is not orthodox. That is where the Jewish majority lies, not in the hands of the Orthodox few. If you discount, 70% of Jews just because you consider yourself more observant than them (and have the documents to prove it), you might be discounting Jews who are actually Jewish and as a result those Jews might stop referring to themselves as Jews and might turn to idol worship and then you who rejected them as Jews would be responsible for all the transgressions that they do, because they no longer consider themselves Jewish and this is all because of you rejecting them. So they should accept all the Russians who claim to be Jewish into Judaism without a conversion (so as not to create animosity from those who are many who are actually Jewish!). But as for present day Russians wanting to make Alliyah, they should have to prove their Jewishness fully with papers.

[Rachel Batya]

"But as for present day Russians wanting to make Alliyah, they should have to prove their Jewishness fully with papers."

What? Have you read any of the other comments on this story? Present-day *American* Jews wouldn't be able to prove their Jewishness fully with papers. I certainly couldn't. Produce my grandmother's ketubah? It's long since crumbled to dust. Produce her birth certificate? There isn't one. Produce records from Lithuania and Poland? Gone. (People weren't all that the Nazis destroyed.) Get a letter from the rabbi at the shul I grew up in? Won't work. He's long since passed away.

Oh, well, I guess I'll just have to have an Orthodox conversion. But wait a minute. I'm not Orthodox! That won't work.

Let's see...I have a need for religion, and there are other religions that would be happy to add me to their ranks without all this bureaucratic nonsense, so...

See where this is going? Is this what you want to happen to members of our people? From reading your post, I don't think you do.

[Mordechai]

I come from Australia, when a person comes to the Beis Din to prove their Jewishness, if they dont have sufficient documentation, they are given the option of doing Geirus L'chumra, and depending on the observabce level oh the person, he is given a Geirus, just to be 100 100% certain that the person is Jewish.
If you dont like it, i am sorry. Just like we are not allowed to eat pork, even if someone has a big desire to eat it, we cannot, the Torah does not allow it.
Again, your complaint is agains the Torah itself, not the Rabbi who teach, and are guided by the Torah.

[Take this Waltz]

Again, your complaint is agains the Torah itself, not the Rabbi who teach, and are guided by the Torah.

No, it IS against the Rabbis. The DEGREE - to which they are making people jump through hoops is NOT Torah-based. They are enforcing stringencies and demands that are recent rabbinic inventions, not Torah rules.

[Rachel Batya]

"No, it IS against the Rabbis. The DEGREE - to which they are making people jump through hoops is NOT Torah-based. They are enforcing stringencies and demands that are recent rabbinic inventions, not Torah rules."

Exactly right. As noted above, the principle that someone who claims he is a Jew is a Jew is codified in the Shulchan Arukh. The challenge to this comes from ultra-orthodox rabbis who apparently have no problem going against halacha when it suits their purposes.

It doesn't take much wisdom or courage to say no, to be strict. It takes a great deal of wisdom and courage to rule leniently, with due regard for the context of the ruling, its impact on the community, and whether it brings more tzedek into the world.

[Yochanan Lavie]

I agree with "Waltz" and Rachel Batya. Too much has been added on, to make our lives miserable rather than "darchei noam." I believe in traditional Judaism, but I think some of the crap that has been accumulated over the centuries needs to be culled out.

In the torah, both patrilineal AND matrilineal Jews were accepted. I think this should be the case today. But for the sake of unity of the Jewish people, I will go with the Conservative and Orthodox. However, we should make it easier for those with a Jewish father to convert.

My friend had a Jewish father, underwent an Orthodox conversion in the States, made aliya, no problem. He married an American Jewish woman in the States, returned to Israel, no problem. They received a kosher get from the Rabbinate, unfortunately. The problems began when my friend wanted to remarry. The rabbinate accepted HIS Judaism, but his new fiancee, a Canadian born-Jew oleh, was put through the third degree about HER Jewishness. Eventually they cleared it up, but here he is, a kippah-wearing, Modern Orthodox, observant, IDF veteran, and he HATES the rabbinate despite the fact he's Orthodox.

What we need is a seperation of synagogue and state. Religion flourishes in America because the churches are not arms of the government.

[chayim]

greetings. a very interesting discussion.
does any have the exact source in the shulchan aruch for the statement made above?

[Al]

Eliyah and Rachel Batya: Bravo for your thoughtful, open, and honset insights.

The issue of conversion is a difficult one. I know of too many stories where sincere individuals have embarqued on the process of conversion only to have a rabbi act as god and decide that these individuals did not meet their criteria. In one case, it was a two year old, adopted by a jewish family living as modern orthodox jews. Their rabbi gave them all the rules of adoption and conversion for their new son and only midway through decided to change the rules. Their crime ? an older child with ADHD who dared to attend a Solomon Schechter school which he did not approve of (despite the fact that his orthodox shul's website clearly identified this school as a local yeshiva). When the parents would not promise that their newly adopted son would not go to this pagan school (how could they, what if he had educaitonal challenges that the lcoal orthodox school was not equipped to handle), their rabbi refused to complete the conversion which he began and set all the guidelines for. He then wnet into action and threaten any rabbi that would consider the doing the conversion. Amazingly, this man who suggested that they adopt a non-jewish baby in an effort to aliminate any question that he might be a mamzer, now went to war to prevent his conversion. Imagine.. he preferred to have a Jewish family with a non-jewish child ! Interestingly, individuals on the board of directors of his shul suggestged that the family lie and make the commitment then do as they please later. To their credit, they would not lie. As a result, this rabbi chose to not only deny THEIR SON (not a kid or adult off the street) a conversion. In hindsight, it now seems that conversion credentials can be removed.. so the suggestion of the shul board would not work anyway.. good thing they did not take their advice.

I am troubled and have no good solution. I understand that if people think the law is devine and they are the guardians, then they must take it seriously. However, unfortunately, these rabanim seem to be incapable of acknowledging that mankind really does not have all the answers. Its sad because I have seen real tzadikim who live the hasidic life through and through who are capable of seeking out a way to use halacha to make things right. But unfortunately there are others who use it for power and domination. And it is always the dominator among men who seeks the power while the truly righteous are simply not inclined to dictate or claim to speak for god !

[Rachel Batya]

--greetings. a very interesting discussion.
does any have the exact source in the shulchan aruch for the statement made above?--

I don't, but Shmarya probably does.