Agriprocessors' Housing In Pictures

Pictures of Agriprocessors' "campus-style" housing are posted immediately below. Please click to enlarge.

[Hat Tip: Postville resident with a digital camera.]

Comments

[yidandahalf]

This is unforgiveable. Do they pull this crap in Crown Heights?

[yidandahalf]

Rubbishcan, make some posters of this and put them up in your soupkitchen.NU?

[sage]

Justice would be served if the housing was switched.

Have the Rubashkins and their Jewish staff move into these houses and the non-Jewish workers live in the homes that Rubashkin, etc. live in.

[rebitzman]

What's the problem? Moon roof, hot and cold running water right by the bed and a coffee maker........ Afh yenems tukhes is gut sepatchen!

Luxury. Well worth $60 a week. (times HOW many residents?)

Please thank whoever had the courage to let you shoot these pictures - as it's odds on that they will be unemployed by days end.

[Rachel Batya]

Okay, you bleeding hearts. Enough with the meshugenah outrage already. What's the problem?

As Barbara Bush said about the happy, gutsy, high-spirited poor people living in football stadiums after Katrina: "They don't mind. They're underprivileged anyway."

Plus, didn't you see that exposed natural wood in the ceiling? Where I come from, you pay extra for that kind of rustic charm.

[duh]

"chabad is as chabad does"

[State of Postville]

To Rachel: you should be ashamed of yourself. You ask, "What is wrong with this?" I wish someone would call the Allamakee Department of Health in Waukon, Iowa about the condition of these houses. No one(except the Rubish-kins)should be living in these houses.

[Archie Bunker]

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_02/b4066052089432.htm

As seen with Swift, just the disruption in production and costs for new recruiting & training cost $45 million. This will be dwarfed by Rubashkin's legal fees & penalties.

[Isa]

Hey!
Look at the upside down 5 gallon pail serving as a bed side night stand.
(mimicking Rubushkin)
Find out whose bed that is!! He stole an empty 5 gallon pail from us!

[Archie Bunker]

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080821/NEWS/808210372/-1/ENT05

Meanwhile, Sen. Charles Grassley asked Iowa Attorney General Tom Miller on Wednesday for expedited consideration of the 57 child labor violations that have been referred to his office by the Iowa Department of Labor. Grassley sent the letter with U.S. Rep. Tom Latham, whose district includes Postville.

[Isa]

Hey!
Look at the upside down 5 gallon pail serving as a bed side night stand.
(mimicking Rubushkin)
Find out whose bed that is!! He stole an empty 5 gallon pail from us!

Seriously
Take a look at the right side of the bed-that is a dryer vent outlet
Take a look at the pipes at the left side of the bed
THIS USED TO BE A LAUNDRY ROOM!!

[Isa]

Hey!
Look at the upside down 5 gallon pail serving as a bed side night stand.
(mimicking Rubushkin)
Find out whose bed that is!! He stole an empty 5 gallon pail from us!

Seriously
Take a look at the right side of the bed-that is a dryer vent outlet
Take a look at the pipes at the left side of the bed
THIS USED TO BE A LAUNDRY ROOM!!

[Isa]

Hey!
Look at the upside down 5 gallon pail serving as a bed side night stand.
(mimicking Rubushkin)
Find out whose bed that is!! He stole an empty 5 gallon pail from us!

Seriously
Take a look at the right side of the bed-that is a dryer vent outlet
Take a look at the pipes at the left side of the bed
THIS USED TO BE A LAUNDRY ROOM!!

[Rachel Batya]

State of Postville wrote--"To Rachel: you should be ashamed of yourself. You ask, "What is wrong with this?"

Oh my G-d, did you think I was serious? I was being ironic. I'm as disgusted by all this as you are.

[WoolSIlkCotton]

The Lubavitcher Yeshiva wasn't much better than this in the 1980's. Perhaps this really is what Lubavitch considers 'dorm-style living'.

[Al]

Rachel: Your original post was obviously sarcastic.. Not sure how anyone confused it with a serious statement.

A friend told me that their inlaws have a home nearby Rubashkins summer cottage in the new york mountains and its quite the mansion. You really have to wonder how anyone could confuse the basic pronciples of Judaism ("be a light onto Nations") with the kind of behavior exhibitged by the Rubashkin family.

[steve]

As Getzel would say, "If they don't like it, they have other options in town." $100 per bed, per week without having to spend a dime on repairs. And I thought the Lakewood Section 8 slumlords were bad.

[Archie Bunker]

"I thought the Lakewood Section 8 slumlords were bad."

If Postville ever tries to institute a building code like Lakewood did, you'll probably have the Rubashkins & Gal's people protesting outside Penrod's office. But something tells me that Mayor Penrod doesn't want to rock the boat because he knows who butters his bread.

[Herschel]

I see . . . "campus housing" really seems to mean, "housing like you'd find in a student ghetto."

So, it should really be called "(really crappy) off-campus-style housing."

[mike]

I am curious with Senator Grassley's involvement now. As everyone knows the Rubashkins and their family members and other interests have given him much money in campaign contributions, so it seems that he is trying to intercede on their behalf.

Shemaya, I find it rather humorous that Rubashkin's main critic in Iowa is their local Congressman, since the Rubashkin's did not support him in this past election, where he beat the incumbent which had received Rubashkin $$ for years.

Eventually some "friends" of Rubashkin wont be able to take the political hit any more and will cut bait.

[state of the Jews]

The City of Postville has no housing code on the books governing multiple occupancy housing for unrelated people. No code for fire escapes. No code requiring fire extinguishers. So GAL and NEVEL can put as many people as they like into a three bedroom house using the dining room for example, as a bedroom with mattresses on the floor.
Heard about a guy who left the plant on a bereavement leave (with permission from his supervisor). When he returned to Postville a few days later, the locks on his apartment door had been changed. Seems there was a clause in his rental agreement that if the premise was not occupied continuously for 48 hours, the landlord could consider the premise abandoned. They guy stuck around for a couple of days in order to get his personal effects out of the apartment, then left town. Great labor relations. A real caring community the Rubashkin's are building.

[?]

This is nothing new. The Rabbis who don't want to pay alot of money have similar problems. The ones who pay more get a nicer house.

[sage]

A really sad thing to consider is that the prison housing for the Rubashkins and others will be an order of magnitude better than what they have arranged for their workers.

[Original Postville resident]

I have been reading through several articles and the comments afterward. I notice Getzel Rubashkin quite often. You need to keep in mind when you read or hear his statements. He received his basic education at the local Yeshiva for boys (Jewish school) which is also their synogogue and an old converted house. A Rabbi in charge of the school spoke publicly a few years ago and told us that these boys do NOT receive a formal public school type education. They are mainly taught the Torah and Jewish customs. In fact, they do not use the books or take any type of state tests that are required in the public schools to show they are learning the 3 R's. So I would take his egotistical, arrogant comments with a grain of Kosher salt. When the Jews first came to Postville, the do-gooders said give it time, another generation from now we won't know the difference and will be living in peace and harmony. HA!!!!! It sounds more like a 3rd generation of the same egotistical, arrogant, crap they have been spewing for 20 years now. The sad thing is that they seem to believe that we are buying their lies and deceitful practices. Anyone who has lived here all this time, knows better. We have heard from enough people working in that plant and for them personally to know what has been going on. Getzel: you are digging yourself a big hole right beside your mafia Grandfather and Father. Give it up and shut up.

[Rachel Batya]

"When the Jews first came to Postville, the do-gooders said give it time, another generation from now we won't know the difference and will be living in peace and harmony. HA!!!!! It sounds more like a 3rd generation of the same egotistical, arrogant, crap they have been spewing for 20 years now."

Oy vey.

Um, excuse me, but I think maybe you stumbled into the wrong blog? We know what a yeshiva is, thank you, and what is taught there, thank you, and there are commenters here who can think, write, and argue circles around most anyone, thank you, and in case you hadn't noticed, there are JEWS here, thank you, and we don't much like it when people say things like "When the Jews first came to Postville," as though one group of Jews represents all Jews, thank you, because, you see, it often tends to work out rather badly for us in the end, so perhaps you need to take a deep breath and realize that you've just acted like a garden-variety anti-semite in public.

Thank you.

[Archie Bunker]

http://www.iowapolitics.com/index.iml?Article=134078

Senator Grassley is really after Rubashkin. He even issued a press release.

[Original Postville resident]

I apologize to Ms. Batya and the other Jewish people who have made an honest attempt to live here peacefully. I should have clarified that for the most part, I was speaking about the Rubashkin family and their actions.

[WoolSIlkCotton]

Rachel Batya: A lot of unkind things are said about the Rubashkin family and Agriprocessors on this site each moment of the day.

A lot of suburban Jewish communities here in the USA don't like it when Orthodox/Chassidic/Haredis start moving into their towns, because they know about the baggage the religious crowd tends to bring. Very acrimonious planning/zoning board meetings occur; I've been to enough of them, both when I was a 'Lubavitcher' and when I no longer was.

A lot of folks on this site have told of hostility in Israel towns when the Black Hat crowd takes over a neighborhood and they start to bully the nonreligious people out.

Now imagine a small midwestern town, with people who may have never, or rarely, met a Jew in their lives, and the Rubashkins & Co. arrive and change the landscape, and decidedly not for the better.

If the Rubashkin family moved into your town and the Agriprocessors water tower was visible from your front porch, I wonder what kind of article you would be writing.

All things considered, I think 'Original Postville resident' showed remarkable restraint in their 11:19 entry.

[Archie Bunker]

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj292/conatz/DSCF1854.jpg

"Agriprocessors - A great place to work"

That may be the biggest misnomer since "Arbeit macht frei". No wonder Agri got a visit from the Red Cross delegation led by Pesach Lerner.

And what's the deal with the year round menoras? Does the plant double as a Chabad house?

[steve]

Original Postville Resident's post is a classic example of the chillul hashem caused by the Rubashkins. We don't need to give the goyim more excuses to hate us. They are also endangering the future of shechita in this country. Jews need to understand the ramifications of supporting them and keeping them in business. Nobody is buying into their aggressive PR campaign and it's message of how innocent they are. It is time to end this chillul hashem and shut them down permanently.

[Archie Bunker]

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj292/conatz/DSCF1866.jpg

"It may be kosher - but not legal"

Wonderful. Some more Rubashkin inspired anti-Semitism.

WoolSilk, I'm sorry you got disillusioned in Lubavitch but most orthodox are not like that. There have been some bullies in select neighborhoods that have acted the way you describe but most of these types of complaints are not valid and are generated by people with ulterior motives.

[Archie Bunker]

Amen to that, Steve.

[State of Postville 2]

Let me reiterate that same thought. I live in Postville and have befriended many of the "Lubavitchers". I have learned more about the Jewish faith in the last two years than I ever knew before and I both admire and would aspire to the morality espoused by my friends. Their sense of community, their devout and deeply-rooted faith set examples that would be well-followed by anyone, no matter their spiritual affiliation.

In short, this is NOT a Jewish thing in my eyes...it is an Agriprocessors thing.

[WoolSIlkCotton]

Archie, Steve, Rachel Batya: The horrific Chillul Hashem perpetrated by the Rubashkins is going to have repercussions for Jewish people of all degrees of observance, globally, for years to come. How can anyone blame 'Original Postville resident' for feeling the way they do?

I have always lived in Jewish communities, some more religious than others, and I will always do so; I wouldn't have it any other way.

Lubavitcher schluchim are virtually always good decent and educated people who quickly become an asset to any community that hires them. They are keenly sensitive to the concept of their image as Jews in the general community, and as religious Jews to the nonreligious Jewish community. I know many that privately cringe at the mention of the word 'Rubashkin'.

I suspect that the Chabad crowd that moved to Postville were not selected by the Lubavitch organization as schluchim. The prospect of slaughterhouse work, even as a 'supervisor', only attracts those who don't have what it takes to be a schaliach. The job description results in a much more 'coarse' contingent moving out to Postville. Unfortunately, when such Chassidim become the de facto representatives of Judaism, the results are awful. If the Gotti family moved to Iowa with a gang of Brooklyn wise guys, and started a slaughterhouse, you would probably get similar results.

[alternative childcare]

I dunno, the rooms looks like the bunks in the frum summer camps I used to go to, Munk, Mogen Av, Dora Golding. What's so terrible about these rooms? :)

[Archie Bunker]

You're a Munkie? How can you compare the gashmiyus to the other camps? Just be glad you weren't anywhere that Kolko could have gotten his paws on you.

[David]

I've been reading this blog for many months now following the never ending lies and corruption of the orthodox. I've never really commented on anything as I do not have the time nor what to say really. The rubaskins along with the majority of the "religious jews" are scums. I cannot even tell you how many times I have seen "religous jews" who dress up in the religious jew costume and act religious turn astray...

Rachel Batya: Shut your smart ass mouth up and go back to your miniature apartment (it probably looks like the pictures above; hence you do not see what is wrong) in your brooklyn crown heights sheytl with the rest of your corrupt scums and continue talk about how this whole rubaskin scandal is a anti-semetic government conspiracy against Jews. Afterall you guys could care less about your passover brisket being made by less than minimum wage, 13-17 year old, 18+ hour shifts w/ no breaks slave labor and cows alive and trying to run away after their "schita"(slaughter), among MANY more other things.

"We know what a yeshiva is, thank you,"
^^ Well we all know you went to one, but unfortunately the one thing they do not teach is how to be a moral person. (I am real glad you all learned gemara though! Great job!)You pray continuously (as someone who speaks Hebrew it is amazing to me to see all you proudly read and sing things you have no idea what they mean and how ridiculous they are; its no surprise though as Hebrew is not something taught at yeshiva, even at the ones for English speakers in Israel) and wear the religious jew costume and tell other Jews (only Jews, as goys are subhuman afterall)that you are more religious than them, therefore better for it, yet just like the rubaskins and the countless more you are quick to fraud, embezzle, sexual abuse, among MANY other things. Since you are going to refute me, I invite you to read this blog with your eyes open...

"and in case you hadn't noticed, there are JEWS here, thank you, and we don't much like it when people say things like "When the Jews first came to Postville,"
^^ How would you like it if the town you have lived in for generations became infested with mafia jews who totally screw up the whole town? What else do you call people who dress up as jews and proclaim themselves "god-fearing" jews and call any criticism "anti-semetic" (just like you Rachel) I think they are being nice just calling them "Jews", if I lived there all my life and saw my town get destroyed by "the bearded people with black globs on their heads who are unwilling to shake my hand", I'd have much harsher words to describe them....

"garden-variety anti-semite in public."
^^ Great job pulling out the "your anti-semetic" card, if you were black you would be saying to any opposition, "das raycist" and you would probably be getting away with it as well just like rubaskin and the jew runed ACLU and NAACP, until people have enough and the tables turn. (remember Nazi Germany?) The Jews then were pulling the same shit they do today. I wonder why everyone hates Jews? While it is true not every Jew is bad, Judiasm is at the sorry state its always been at since its starting thousands of years ago. Besides having the trait of not caring for fellow Jews (Dear religious, remember Tisha B'Av, Did you bother to learn about the reason for that holiday coming about, or were you too busy praying?) usually Jews are the ones who are oppressed throughout the generations. Instead for pretty much one of the few times in history, God has given us the complete prosperity we are living in today. In pre-Nazi Germany there was this same type of prosperity for Jews until soon enough Hitler and his gang fixed that.... While I defiantly do not agree with gassing millions of Jews and other innocent people at concentration camps and persecuting all the Jews, I do not really think the behavior of some Jews was much different than it is today, which screwed it up for all the innocent Jews. The only difference between here and Germany was that the Germans had only so much tolerance for it... Now once again, we have the same prosperity and as intermarriage creates less and less Jews for the ones still Jewish on one side we have the corrupt orthodox lunatics which creates the godless reform movement as the reform see the orthodox as lunatics, so what do they do, do the opposite and both the orthodox and reform bring Judism to lower and lower levels every day. (Israel is the prime example of how orthodox lunatics cause utter godlessness; look at the Israeli government) Then there are those few in the middle which are far from the majority....
As the rest of remaining Jews are busy intermarrying and ceasing to be Jewish it is something I do not encourage, but it's really easy for me to see why 50%+ of Jews marry outside the religion,(their Christian partner is probably more God-Fearing than most Jews are anyways) however that inevitably means that their children will not be Jewish anymore, which means less Jews.... It is people like rubaskin and the other orthodox crooks and their actions that creates more intermarriages as people do not want to be associated with crooks like these scums.... (Dear Getzel, you now have another thing you can thank your mafia wannabe father for!) So before it used to be oppression killing off the Jews, now it it is prosperity and the actions of the corrupt Jews who thrive in prosperity.

Dear Original Postville resident:

My heart truly goes out to all of Postville's original residents. Its really hard for me to imagine how it is possible to put up with all this. I really do not know what to say to all of you.... Please ignore nasty comments from people like "Rachel Batya", they are from the same group of scums the rubaskins are from.
I am very glad you all have found Failed Messiah as it does byfar the best job of reporting everything going on, both in this rubaskin scandal but also Judaism as a whole. True Jewish people who really do believe in God and his commandments and are righteous, are people like Shmarya, who write this blog. People who dress up like they are religious and play that whole game means absolutely nothing. It is interesting to note that in the end of days, in Judaism it does not say only Jews will survive and everyone else goes to hell, rather it says that only the "righteous" will survive. That's people like non-jewish workers at agri treated like slaves and loosing limbs, it's people like you guys, the original Postville residents who have to put up with this mess, all the God-fearing Christians who care more about Israel than the Jews as the Jews are currently piloting it to its self-destruction at full throttle, and it's people like Shmarya. It's not at all people like the rubaskins and all that defend them along with all the other corrupt godless jews that ruin everything for the few decent Jews left.

(Talk about the subject of the end of days to the "orthodox" jews and they are for the most part completely clueless as they never learn about any of this in their "yeshivas" rather they learn about the most primitive and irrelevant topics that have absolutely no relevance to anything... and we can see the result on this blog.... hell, chabad people (rubaskin is totally chabad affiliated) think "rebbe" (their rabbi leader who proclaimed himself the messiah, except he died something like 10 years ago) is the messiah and "770" (their brooklyn headquarters since like 1940ish; Getzel can clarify...) is the third temple.... what dumbasses)

Anyways, I truly wish all of the original residents of Postville all the best!

Postville resident with a digital camera:

Words, as we have seen, get nothing done, but pictures can indeed say a thousand words and are impossible to refute (unless of course we keep our eyes closed; I learned that method from the "orthodox union", chabad, and the other "kosher" organizations :-) )
Thank you so much for taking pictures above along with your "paycheck" (if you even want to call it one) and please keep the pictures coming! I wish you and your family all the best and I truly hope everything will be O.K. for you and your family in the end!
Hang in there, you will get out of the shithole the rubaskin scums tricked you into, sooner or later....
Gosh, its hard to think about what it is like there for you guys....

There are no words to describe the rubaskin scum.

My prayers are with all of you....

Lastly...

Shmarya:

Thank you so very much for continuing to do this blog day in and day out! Your tireless work is truly appreciated. It took me well over two hours to write this comment. I can only imagine how much time you much spend every day to make this blog what it is today with its almost daily updates and superb reporting. Unfortunately, pretty much each new update something new and only getting worse and worse, nevertheless to not report it is defending the ones committing the atrocities and for reporting it you are doing a HUGE mitzvah.
Your about me page really says a whole lot about you and why and how you got here. I respect you very much and I truly believe what you are doing is something God meant for you to be doing and I feel your role is much greater than it may seem now.
You are truly an incredible person! Thank you again for everything you do!

Shmarya, Postville resident w/ camera, Original Postville resident + all the other original residents plus the many workers treated worse than slaves and the many who were negatively affected,
MAY GOD BLESS ALL OF YOU!

[michael ben drosai]

yeah - its no worse than mogen av - where are the dooskies? huh indoor plumbing - I stand correcte - its bette than MA

[WoolSIlkCotton]

David, I feel your pain.

Jews along the entire continuum of religiosity have existed, and even thrived, for thousands of years. Not all Jews since Day One have been Orthodox, and yet we are all still doing just fine.

Judaism has withstood the test of time because of its inherent virtue. Once it is no longer considered good and morally desirable, that's when all of us will go the way of the dinosaurs- not because of physical attack, God forbid- but because we will no longer feel it is worthwhile to be Jewish.
I should add that making dozens of orthodox babies will not assure anything; it hasn't achieved a positive effect for any religion or ethnic group that has tried that approach.

If there is something good to come out of the Rubashkin disaster, it's that everyone's core beliefs have been shaken, and dialogues have been open amongst Jews of all kinds, even if those dialogues get a little nasty sometimes, as you so vividly showed in your outpouring. We are all struggling with the implications and repercussions of Postville.

So to all my fellow blogmeisters, hunched over your computer screens after a long day's work, trying to sort out your feelings over this thing and that thing, please keep up the good work.

Just don't start throwing furniture, and we will all emerge stronger and better from this.

[Archie Bunker]

David, get a grip.

You've obviously been burned by some bad people but the world is not the way you describe it.

[Archie Bunker]

"Not all Jews since Day One have been Orthodox, and yet we are all still doing just fine."

Don't give up all hope because of crooks like the Rubashkins who hide behind orthodox garb. Whoever left orthodoxy in eras past has no descendents who are Jewish as they were completely lost to assimilation.

[steve]

David,

Rachel Batya was being sarcastic. I think you owe her an apology along with all the decent, hardworking, law abiding, tax paying Orthodox Jews you insulted.

[?]

I want David to understand something and Shmayra can't argue with this point, Not all religious Jews are same as the Rubashkins. First of all, The Rubashkins have done alot of good for different people which I have seen with my own eyes.(not bribes) What has been written I have seen also in the plant. No question on that. The Rabbis had every right to walk out as any other worker who hasn't been paid. Not all religious Jews are evil as David claims. Some of us live quiet lives taking care of our families and communities to live true TORAH lives. Don't say that all Religious Jews are evil, the evil ones are the ones who choose evil over good.

[WoolSIlkCotton]

++The Rubashkins have done alot of good for different people++

The Gambino and Gotti families are also known for their charity, donating to hospitals and community organizations where they live. Al Sharpton is a 'highly regarded community leader' in Harlem, like Moshe Rubashkin is in Crown Heights. These thugs use largesse as a tactic to solidify a base of rabble who will then act as sycophants on their behalf.
Different religions, different ethnicities- thugs are thugs, and get the power and attention because they know how to manipulate people.

[Carol Ann Varley]

For the most part, my social affiliations have been with reformed Jews. I moved into a neighborhood near several synagogues. On weekends I observed how so many residents chose to walk instead of drive cars.

"Boy, they sure like to exercise," I mentioned to a friend. She burst out laughing.

"They're Orthodox," she explained. "They aren't allowed to drive on the Sabbath.

I'm glad she educated me; otherwise, I'd swear they were all jocks.

My point is, it's important to learn about people and not assume things.

[rebitzman]

++To Rachel: you should be ashamed of yourself.++

Context is everything, Jeff. If you read the body of Rachael's posts, it would be pretty clear to you she is being extremely sarcastic.

[WoolSIlkCotton]

++Whoever left orthodoxy in eras past has no descendents who are Jewish as they were completely lost to assimilation++

Archie, I respectfully disagree, but will leave that discussion for another time.

[David]

Let me clarify myself,
Looking back at my post, I saw I put "majority of the "religious jews" are scums" which I guess being so pissed off at "rachel batyas" completely rude remark and then remembering all the times I have personally seen that kind of rudeness in person, I put that the "majority" are no good by accident.
If there was an edit post button I'd go back and change that to "there are plenty" as while everyone goes astray somewhat, THE MAJORITY (like well over 90%+) of regular MODERN ORTHODOX Jews (like the ones without the black hats and all those gimmicks) are good people. Furthermore a good number of people who indeed do wear black hats and stuff like that (even many chabadniks) are good people as well and are moral and ethical. These people are the regular people that you do not see and live normal lives like everyone else. These are the ones who are >>God-Fearing<< (key word; religious means nothing) and do not go around boasting how religious they are and they pretty much just follow along simply wanting the best for their family and for their children, and I respect them for that. I think they are much better off being religious as opposed to non-religious and I am happy for them.

As for the leaders of the orthodox, and by leaders I mean like the people at the top or anyone with the least bit of power, THE MAJORITY turn their back against God many times and are pretty much all corrupt.(and many times turn the regular people astray at the same time as a result of their godlessness) We saw this perfectly with the rubaskin scandal and all of them declaring that everything is great and all these allegations are unfounded and in the end not punishing them or anything close to that.

Its not to say that non-orthodox Jews don't have problems. They have plenty of problems also, except they do not dress up and act as God-fearing people..... (I totally despise non-religious Jewish crooks as much as orthodox ones) That's the biggest problem I have with the orthodox crooks, especially when they start lying in the name of God, as does rubaskins and plenty

"You see it and you are reminded of your commitment to do good," said Getzel Rubashkin when talking about mezuzahs..... in other words trying to say that nothing bad happens at rubaskins

As for everything else I wrote in my post, I stand by it entirely.
Like I said in the post above, at the same time, I seriously cannot tell you how many times I have seen regular orthodox people turn astray. Nearly all are smoking away among many other immoral things.(and from what I have personally seen, thats not really guys sneaking out with girls, rather other things) Yes the majority of the non-religious jews are doing the same thing as well, but to me its like, so whats the difference, except one group dresses up to be religious and pretends to be, but does the opposite of the bible, while the other group does not try to portray themselves as anything and does whatever...

Listen it is much more complicated than this simple post....

---- Then there is people like "?"

"The Rubashkins have done alot of good for different people which I have seen with my own eyes.(not bribes)"

How can you say that the "Rubashkins have done alot of good for different people which I have seen with my own eyes".

WHAT ABOUT THE WORKERS BEING TREATED LIKE SLAVES AND BEING ABUSESED??? Is there nothing wrong with the pictures above??? I've been camping in a tent before and my $20 tent off ebay is luxury compared to the pictures above.... The worker abuse is so bad the situation of the animals that are surely going through hell is tottally forgotten. Is your kosher meat worth this???

How about the morals of all the lying orthodox organizations from their staged plant all paid for plant walk around a couple days ago in which they did not even bother to meet a single former employee??
Indeed as Shmarya said, Agriprocessors is very open – just like a Potemkin Village.

For your sake, lets not even get started about all the other unethical and immoral issues in the orthodox community......

And no "?" I never said "all Religious Jews are evil" and I completely agree with you that "the evil ones are the ones who choose evil over good." however it sometimes seem that too many choose evil over good.

And no Steve, the batya lady was being entirely serious not sarcastic as you allege.

People like you and her are pretty ridiculous aren't they?

And Steve, I indeed do have some appologies to make.
I want to say sorry again to all the abused workers being exploited in Postville thanks to the rubaskin scums as well as to Postville's original residents whose town was changed forever. I have absolutly no relation to both rubaskin nor chabad yet I feel almost as if I am personally responsible for the atrocities they committed simply because of the fact they are also Jewish and giving Jews a horrible name. (and looking at their actions, it is rightly so)

It's really pathetic to me how rubaskins and its many defenders (many regular people led astray by their godless leaders)do not feel the least bit of sympathy to anyone, even the slave workers making their passover brisket and yearround meat supply. Totally forget the animals suffering by rubaskins cruel USDA forbidden slaughtering technique that at any other slaughter house is banned due to something called "Human Guidelines" (rubaskin bribed them to not enforce them; read this blog for the dozens of posts about this and everything else).

The list can go on and on and on and on...........................................

.....and its much more than rubaskins

[isabel]

Please someone explain how the government lets this go on in modern USA?We hear they now want to bring in third world legals from the south pacific island of palau,they probably are good people,but why bring workers 8000 miles to the midwest for more of what has been going on?

[rebitzman]

++Whoever left orthodoxy in eras past has no descendents who are Jewish as they were completely lost to assimilation.++

Gee - you'll need to tell that to the Hassidim who regularly count me toward their minyon. They don't seem to have got that memo.

[State of Postville III]

GAL owner came to a city council meeting regarding a housing ordinance and proceeded to cry that he didn't have the money to fix up his houses and threatened to file Chapter XI bankruptcy. He would leave the keys of 131 houses on the banker's desk. The city shouldn't be putting a housing ordinance in place at this time because it was inconvenient for him. The mayor said they would procede with the housing ordinance and it probably wouldn't be in place for six to 12 months. He didn't like that and stomped out like a child who didn't get the candy he wanted. Actually the man bought several houses after the May 13th raid. Do you know the history of the Native American? It is the same scenerio in Postville. On the foreheads of these do-gooders was stupid and easily duped. No one talks about the million dollars this plant cost the community. Lawyer fees of $900,000 and $100,000 EPA fine all our taxpayer money. The locals were duped of money while performing tasks for the "new folks." You wonder why people would like to see them "hit the road." We are pitied by most of the area towns. "Poor Postville" we know there are lots of problems there. There are no excuses for their behavior and lack of respect for the people in this town. The treatment of the workers in the plant and their living arrangements are nothing short of despicable. Please this is the 21st century.

[David]

The verse below is from Deuteronomy 24:14-15.

"You should not abuse (not abusing does not mean treating people worse than slaves)a needy and destitute laborer, whether a fellow countryman or a stranger in one of the communities in your land. (notice it is not talking about Jews, it's talking about ANYONE) You must give him his wages on the very same day before the sun sets, because he is needy and he urgently depends on it (The only reason illegals come to this country is due to the fact they can barley make a dollar a day back in Mexico and the Latin/South American countries and that they want to support their families)– otherwise he will cry out to God against you >>and you will be guilty<<(sound familiar?; I can't speak for God but I think it is a safe assumption to believe that those defending the guilty are also guilty)."

Before the rubaskin defenders like getzel, batya, "?", "yo", Steve and the many others try to start blasting me and Shmarya and all the others against disgraces of God's name in order to justify their unethical godless ways,

:: Think for a second ::
Would God side with rubaskin or would he utterly condemn them?

Seriously, for once GET OUT of your corrupt and godless mindset and actually go home and read the words of God and better yet, FOLLOW THEM.

On an unrelated note,
Shmarya put on Jewcy last week a really interesting article (as always)titled: Exploiting Undocumented Workers Exploits Judaism

If you haven't read it already read it here:
http://www.jewcy.com/post/heretic_torah_agriprocessors#

[alternative childcare]

David-
Anyone who can write this:
n pre-Nazi Germany there was this same type of prosperity for Jews until soon enough Hitler and his gang fixed that.... While I defiantly do not agree with gassing millions of Jews and other innocent people at concentration camps and persecuting all the Jews, I do not really think the behavior of some Jews was much different than it is today, which screwed it up for all the innocent Jews. The only difference between here and Germany was that the Germans had only so much tolerance for it...

is someone who should stop pretending to be a member of the Jewish people, or go back on his medications. He certainly should not be offering advice or be insulting to real actual concerned Jews, you stinking Nazi bastard. And before you leave, thanks for not agreeing with gassing us all, Nazi bastard.

[rebitzman]

++While I defiantly do not agree with gassing millions of Jews and other innocent people at concentration camps and persecuting all the Jews,++

Good to know (he says.....backing away slowly).

[Rachel Batya]

David--

Whoa! This is a case of one person's upset triggering another person's very deep (and I'm sure very justified) pain. It was very hard to read the things you said about me, because I'm so utterly different from the person you think I am.

I'm not Orthodox. I didn't go to a yeshiva. I am self-taught in most things Jewish. I have a very eclectic approach to Judaism, and I am happy with it that way. I have no particular Jewish affiliation; when asked, I say that I am a practicing Jew. If pressed, I say that I am a liberal Jew. If pressed further, I say that I follow my own path and my own conscience and I hope everyone else does too. I dislike (and even fear) True Believers of any variety, and I certainly don't feel that the world is a massive anti-semitic conspiracy.

I like and respect Arthur Waskow (who many of the posters here think is a loony), I'm big on unions, I march in demonstrations against the war (on Shabbos yet--after all, it's to save a life), and I've told my daughter that if she is gay, straight, or bisexual, it is all fine with me.

I'm probably one of the most liberal people on this blog. In fact, with this post, I may have clinched the title of "Most Liberal Commie Union-Loving Leftie Fanatic Who Doesn't Even Practice Authentic Judaism on FM." So whatever pain I triggered in you, I'm very sorry, as it was not at all my intention.

[Rachel Batya]

Back to the original post:

What I was responding to in Original Postville's comment was the line about "When the Jews first came to Postville..." I understand entirely what WoolSilkCotton and others are saying about the ways that the chillul hashem perpetuated by certain folks in Postville makes a certain amount of anti-semitism a given. It *explains* the anti-semitism. It does not *justify* it. My parents (who were atheists, by the way, and would have locked me in the basement rather than send me to a yeshiva) raised me to understand that one can simply not make a judgment on an entire group of people, that to do so is called stereotyping and bigotry, that there is never any justification for it, and that I should call it what it is when I see it. I would have had the same visceral reaction had Original Postville Resident said, "When the blacks first came to Postville, the do-gooders said give it time, another generation from now we won't know the difference and will be living in peace and harmony. HA!" Would there be any justification for a comment like that? I have lived in mixed neighborhoods most of my adult life, and I have seen people of all races do some pretty terrible things, but it would never occur to me to extrapolate from the specific to the general because it isn't how I was raised.

When Original Postville resident said "When the Jews first came to Postville," it was as though he weren't talking to Jews. He didn't say "the Rubashkins," or "Agriprocessors," or "the new Jewish people who seem to be on the fanatical/obnoxious side," he said "When the Jews first came to town," with no qualifier, as though he already had a preconception about what was going to happen in Postville, and as though all Jews are like the Jews who happened to show up and royally screw up his town. Now he has taken responsibility for his statement and clarified his feelings, and that is a very good outcome, in my opinion.

To Original Postville resident: I read your apology this afternoon, just before I had to leave for the rest of the day. I was thinking about what I would say when I got back. Here's what I came up with: Thank you for your apology and for understanding why I was upset. You seem like a well-meaning person. You've seen some pretty poor examples of Judaism thus far, and I hope you'll see some better ones here.

It sounds hopelessly trite now, I know. It's hard to sound sincere on a blog with all the screaming going on, but I am doing my best.

[State of Postville 2]

rebitzman -

Think you're a little confused on this one, I can assure you, "State of Postville"'s name is not Jeff.

"Context is everything, Jeff. If you read the body of Rachael's posts, it would be pretty clear to you she is being extremely sarcastic."

[State of Postville 2]

Rachel -

It is often the thoughtful and the well-meaning who are most maligned in these places. Blogs are great places for the exchange of ideas, discussions and the like, but the downside is they are open and (basically) available to everyone.

There was a story in Last Sunday's Des Moines Register about this very thing. There are people out there who get there jollies by making other people mad and by provoking anger and consternation simply because it "trips their trigger".

I've been doing this for years and can pretty much tell when someone is sniping without consideration. You learn to spot them and glean as much humor as possible at their feeble attempts to incite racism, hatred or just plain ranting. The thing that helped me remember that philosophy was the slightly crude but oh so appropriate idiom, "Don't let the bastards get you down!"

It takes a lot of courage to admit you have made a mistake and "Original Postville Resident" is to be applauded for owning up to what was obviously a mistaken interpretation on his part. Kudos to you both for the way in which you handled yourselves.

For David,
I see your points and understand what you are trying to say, but a semester or two in "Diplomacy 101" and "Civility 101 - 102 - 103" would go a long way to aiding your credibility

[rebitzman]

++Think you're a little confused on this one++

Wouldn't be the first time - not sure what I thought I read.

[Rachel Batya]

State of Postville2--

Thanks so much for your kind words. I hope Original Postville Resident sees them as well.

[State of Postville 2]

One more post for the night, and then I'm done. This one comes from the idealist within me who has never died.

I have read some great posts throughout these topics, with a lot of thought and research behind them, and it has truly cheered me to know I have learned from these from posters, broadened my perspective and added to own philosophies because of their passion and diligence to find a solution.

It is through open and thoughtful discussion that solutions are born. Sadly, open and thoughtful are concepts easily smashed by emotion and intolerance. I have seen a lot of that here, too.

If we could all put aside the ignorance and spite borne of intolerance and bigotry and remember that we share this little bit of time we have been given to live our lives together here on earth, it would be more like the place my idealist self believes in and longs for.

I know the world can never be that perfect place, and there is a better world beyond this one. That is at once a sobering and uplifting concept.

It is sobering because in order to reach that better world beyond this one, I have to leave the vessel containg my spirit in this world. My biggest fear when that time comes is that I have squandered so many opportunities to do the right thing or make the right choice.

My being in Postville at this point in my life is an opportunity I will not squander. I will do everything in my power, with guidance from the hand above, unencumbered by any or all organized religion. The hand above will guide me through what is right and/or wrong - all I have to do is follow. I really do believe it is just that simple. There are two choices for everything...one is right, the other wrong.

I have been given the chance to make the choices and I am making the best of it for myself and all those who are or will become a part of what my world is in the time I have left.

Idealistic? You bet it is! Will it solve the world's problems? Nope. Does it make me feel better? Damn skippy!

[Rachel Batya]

Just to clarify, when I said that I dislike and fear True Believers, I was not talking about Orthodox people or Chabadniks or any other group in general. I was referring to Christian fanatics who shoot abortion doctors, Jewish settlers who threaten to fire on the IDF, and crazy militia folks who want to make America into a "Christian nation"--you know, the people who believe that G-d can come out of the barrel of a gun.

In other words, no one here present.

I am not against Orthodoxy or any other branch of Judaism. I draw from all of them, and I've been given great insight and tremendous, loving support from people all across the spectrum.

Just so's you know...

[David Bar-Magen]

Sigh.

What can I say? I've been virtually silent thus far on the Agri scandal, watching it develop from the birth of the original allegations to the well-documented mess it is today. I've watched it enter the spin zone, and then I've watched it enter the counter-spin zone and the counter-counter spin zone besides. I'm dizzy from all the spinning. And, as a natural result of this dizziness, I feel like vomiting.

I wish we Jews could understand the gift that is modern society. I wish we didn't behave as though we were born with all manner of honors due us and cry anti-Semitism when these expectations are not met. I wish we understood that the most failsafe assurance of receiving is to give and give some more.

We sometimes feel, I believe, a sense of entitlement to that which we do not immediately deserve. We are told from early childhood that we are princes and princesses of God, but we mistakenly take that to mean that we're royalty. Perhaps we should be God's secretaries instead--his humble working class who busy themselves with keeping the world in order. Secretaries don't expect to be showered with adulation.

Most white collar scandals in the Jewish community seem to stem from this sense of misplaced superiority. We all believe that we are the chosen people, but we don't seem to understand that what we're chosen FOR is to be the guardians of morality. The Torah recognizes this. Hell, Hitler recognized it--he blamed most of the "softness" and "values" of the democratic world as having stemmed from the Judaic value system and thus despised it.

All I can think of when I read about these scandals is: where have these values gone? Where are the values that we've died for?

And that's about all I can manage for now.

[Jerome Soller]

David,

I felt compelled to respond to your posting. It is unfair to categorize the corruption as "of the orthodox," just like it is not fair to categorize it as "of the Jews." The vast majority of religious Jews (whether they are sephardic, ashkenazi Jews from the Lithuanian tradition or hassidic), which themselves are a diverse community, are ethical and normal people who lead a quiet lifestyle.

As anyone that knows me, I almost never cry antisemitism. However, when I read your post, my reaction was that you are portraying antisemitic stereotypes about large segments of the Jewish population, but I am not calling you an antisemite. I am sensitive when someone portrays the Jewish community in that way, as that has in the past led to Jews being killed (e.g., middle age blood libels, Nazi Germany, pograms in Russia, terrorism against Jews in the Arab world). Sometimes, I think Shmarya goes a little overboard. However, I believe that if Shmarya lived in the time of the destruction of the first temple (as commemorated by Tisha'B'Av), he would have associated with Jeremiah the prophet. At the same time, one needs to put things in perspective. Jews, in general, hold themselves to a high ethical standard. You make accusations throughout your posting that Jews hold themselves to a lower ethical standard. B*llsh&t! There is no evidence for this, other than your biases. It is always better for criticism to come from within (including Shmarya's site) and for the Jewish community to fix its own problems. Unfortunately, that did not happen in this situation, but for better or worse justice will likely be extracted by the feds (acting as an agent of Hashem - the Jewish word representing the name of G-d). May Hashem show his mercy and kindness on innocents in this situation. David, I stand by my convictions about Jewish morality (as I and other Jewish business owners practice in our personal and professional lives), and unlike you I am willing to put my real name on this post to represent the integrity of that statement.

On Rachel Batya, your statements about her were somewhat arrogant, presumptious, and condescending. She, like me, is concerned when people attack major segments of the Jewish community, in general. Most of us, including Rachel (who I have never met or spoken with) and most of the Jewish posters on this blog, have not claimed it was an antisemitic conspiracy. I recognize that some individuals within the Jewish community, including some within the Chabad community, are making that unfounded accusation, instead of pushing for accountability. However, I know a greater majority of Jews (including many Black Hat orthodox and Chabad Hassidic Jews) that are disgraced by events in Pottsville, and do not claim it was an antisemitic conspiracy. On the contrary, most members of the Jewish community hold the people (who are visible representatives of segments of the Jewish community) responsible for their own actions and expect them to responsibly face the results of those actions. How do you know she lives in Brooklyn? Why do you lump her in with the Pottsville folks? How do you know what she believes on these issues? How do you know that she went to a Yeshiva? You are applying a stereotype to her and her actions. Who are you to challenge a person's connection to G-d? Whether they pray a certain way or worship G-d a certain way, the morality of the person is the most important thing. The bottom line is that you owe her an apology.

Like many on this blog and throughout the diverse Jewish community, I do have MAJOR problems with Jewish people that are outwardly observant and do not hold the moral standard expected of Jews. It is disgraceful to the Jewish community and to G-d what is alleged to have happened there, in the name of G-d. It is disgraceful that these things have occurred in the name of producing food that meets Jewish ritual requirements of kashrut, while ignoring Jewish ethics. The goal of "light unto the nations" requires a high moral standard in dealing with all people (Jews and non-Jews alike), a Jewish moral standard that from my experience would compare favorably (in my personal opinion hight than) even with other groups whose ethics I hold in high regard (e.g., Mormons, evangelical Christians, some Buddhists). After the occurrence of a rape by an individual black man, I would accuse you of being racist if you said, "Blacks, all of them just like going around raping women. They were pulling the same shit they do today in the past." Your comments about Jews are comparable to this, such as nazi Germany as being caused by "the Jews pulling the same shit they do today" and "I wonder why everyone hates Jews?"

In summary, I greatly sympathize with the residents of Pottsville adversely impacted by events there, the workers at some of these plants that were treated poorly, and some but not all members of the Rubashkin family (who are caught in the middle of an intractable situation). However, this does not excuse your personal attacks on people such as Rachel Batya and attempts to perpetuate antisemitic stereotypes of the Jewish community, orthodox or otherwise.

Jerome

[Jerome Soller]

A clarification. My response was to an anonymous "David " whose post attacked Rachel Batya and Jewish ethics, not to David Bar-Magen's later post.

[David Bar-Magen]

Jerome, I think you're confusing me with the "David" before. We are not the same person. He's just David; I'm David Bar-Magen.

[David Bar-Magen]

Oh, I just registered your post. Sorry about that.

[Jerome Soller]

David Bar-Magen,
Thank you for your courtesy.

Jerome

Original Postville Resident, keep posting. Your posts are valuable. The Rubash-ins have done more to fuel the anti-semites' fire than any contemporary entity that comes to mind. The effect they have on the attitude non-Jews harbor must be faced and understood. Therefore, I repeat your comments are valuable and needed.
I myself do not live in a Jewish bubble. Actually to be honest, I wish I did. Therefore I face anti-semitism very often in the real world. That is to say not the reporting of it in an outlet like VIN for example. It is very real.

Isabel, these things go on because BigAgri has been largely deregulated and our government, as is common with all governments is corrupt. The so called regulatory agencies are staffed with former industry insiders who work both ends but answer to BigAgri. Remember when you go to the polls; "No matter who you vote for the government always gets in.". Nothing but the transparency that comes from the efforts of blogs like this one and other uncorruptable media outlets will change this. This is the only good to have come out of this horror story the rubash-ins have begun.

[yidandahalf]

those were my two above comments. Something Rachel Batya posted has been niggling away at me. I commend her for schechting her own chickens properly. I do believe it is a holy thing although I am a vegan. She posted on an earlier thread about the blood being spilled on the ground and brachot. She had asked where the blood goes in the Agri operations. I ask the same thing. I want to know how the operations at Agri remain kosher during this stage of processing. Obviously many of us see the impossiblity of it. So I ask those of you who know, to educate us about this. Blood draining from the kill floor to a holding tank cannot be part of a kosher operation to some of us.

[Rachel Batya]

--How do you know she lives in Brooklyn?--

I know this is a trivial point, but I don't live in Brooklyn and have never been to Crown Heights (or most other neighborhoods in the city). It would be difficult to raise and shecht my own chickens in Brooklyn.

[anonymous ben klonymous]

this is so fake! these pictures are from 1414 right before it closed for renovations. i know because i was there and remember this room on the 7th floor!

[Rachel Batya]

"So I ask those of you who know, to educate us about this. Blood draining from the kill floor to a holding tank cannot be part of a kosher operation to some of us."

The answer I received to these questions in the other thread was that we are only required to bury the blood of a bird or an animal that we hunt (and by that, I assume that we catch in a snare). The passage is in Vayikra; I don't have the exact cite right now. So, following from Vayikra, you don't have to bury the blood of four-legged mammals. From what I gather, halacha does not extrapolate past what the Torah text says.

All I can say is that the exemption of that requirement for the four-leggeds makes little sense to me. It may be that there is such a massive amount of blood when a large animal bleeds out that letting it run onto a bed on the earth would be impractical, especially if you're shechting more than one. But to me, burying the blood of the shechted animal shows such respect to it, and to the life-force that was in it, that I can't see why halacha does not address this in a more creative way.

I've seen plenty of barns in which there are manure pits under the place where the cows eat. The manure goes under the barn, where it composts down. It certainly seems like there could be a similar kind of arrangement to get the blood of a shechted cow to just flow out through an opening in the floor to the earth below (and in a way that isn't dangerous for the cow's footing). Farmers are nothing if not ingenious, so certainly there is a solution here. Even if you have it flow into a holding tank, you could certainly create a process in which the blood is taken to a piece of earth (if there is any actual earth left around a factory) and buried. Of course, you'd be saying a bracha over the whole big mess rather than the blood of each individual creature, but it would be a step in the right direction.

It's interesting that you brought this subject up, because I was thinking about what the end of the shechittah process looks like for us. When we're all done shechting, plucking, and gutting, we bury the blood and put a stone on top of each bed. We first did it to keep the hens from trying to peck at the blood (the little cannibals), but the rocks look like little memorial stones. It's very sobering to have that reminder of the death that was necessary so that you can carry the chickens up to to the freezer.

[Rachel Batya]

Re: four-leggeds...I should have said "domesticated four-leggeds," since if you catch a four-legged in the wild, you do have to bury the blood.

[rebitzman]

>>remember this room on the 7th floor!>>

Actually - at best you are mistaken - at worst (please draw your own conclusions).

Someone inside Rubashkins has told me he believes this IS house where their workers live - and claimed he was trying to do something (positive) about it.

[The Mysterians]

David -

Rachel Batya leaned into "Original Postville Resident" mainly because he referred to the Rubys/Agri as "the Jews," so she took that as OPR venting his anger at all Jews, not at Agri.

OPR later clarified what he meant, and it looks like things are smoothed over between OPR and Rachel Batya.

As for Rachel Batya being a supporter of Agri, etc. I have no idea where you got that from. A reading of her posts on this thread and others on this site shows her to be firmly in the camp of the Agri critics.

I hope you two smooth this over.

[Rachel Batya]

Well said, Jerome.

Good shabbos to everyone...

[yidandahalf]

Rachel Batya, thanks for your thoughtful post. I hope it gets many to think about the whole matter of proper schechting. Gitte Shabbos to all as well.

[I_am_sick_and_I'm_gonna_vomit]

I followed the link (http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=agri_short) on the T-shirt advertised on this page ("Aaron's Cruelest"). The page the link points to is a PETA video download, which I watched. The video was purportedly shot at a slaughterhouse in Iowa, run by Agriprocessors. I don't have an especially weak stomach, but what I saw on that video was nauseating. Cows, while still alive and obviously still conscious, had their throats slit and their tracheas torn out (why ?) by knife-wielding meat-factory killers. Apparently, not all of them are rendered unconscious by having their carotid arties cut, because there are scenes of cows being dumped on a blood-covered floor, and stumbling and sliding around trying to stand. NO animal, no sentient being on earth or any other planet, in any galaxy, should be subjected to this, not for any reason whatsoever. This is Kosher meat preparation ? I just now, at this moment, have given up eating meat. I don't know ; maybe we're all destined to burn in hell for allowing this to go on, whether through negligence or complicity. One thing I do know though is that if we do burn in hell, there is a special flame-thrower reserved for the sadists who are perpetrating this unspeakable abomination in Postville Iowa.

[I_am_sick_and_I'm_gonna_vomit]

I followed the link (http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=agri_short) on the T-shirt advertised on this page ("Aaron's Cruelest"). The page the link points to is a PETA video download, which I watched. The video was purportedly shot at a slaughterhouse in Iowa, run by Agriprocessors. I don't have an especially weak stomach, but what I saw on that video was nauseating. Cows, while still alive and obviously still conscious, had their throats slit and their tracheas torn out (why ?) by knife-wielding meat-factory killers. Apparently, not all of them are rendered unconscious by having their carotid arties cut, because there are scenes of cows being dumped on a blood-covered floor, and stumbling and sliding around trying to stand. NO animal, no sentient being on earth or any other planet, in any galaxy, should be subjected to this, not for any reason whatsoever. This is Kosher meat preparation ? I just now, at this moment, have given up eating meat. I don't know ; maybe we're all destined to burn in hell for allowing this to go on, whether through negligence or complicity. One thing I do know though is that if we do burn in hell, there is a special flame-thrower reserved for the sadists who are perpetrating this unspeakable abomination in Postville Iowa.

[WoolSIlkCotton]

That video is the reason I decided to send $16 and join PETA.

[Carol Ann Varley]

The PETA videotape is the reason I stopped eating meat.

This matter concerns gentiles since
Agriprocessors' non-kosher products (estimated at 70%) are sold in secular markets such as Wal-Mart.

[Ben]

These pictures seem to be of an apartment that experienced a water line break. Are these pictures typical of Entire Agri Processor housing projects?

[Shmarya]

1. It's a house, not an apartment.

2. Media reports say this is typical, that many of these houses are in disrepair.

[Susan]

the photos of mold on walls of Postville rental housing that were in an Iowa newspaper (or other media source) at the time people from Texas came to Postville were worse than these photos. In looking at titles of some "youtube" video clips from Postville months back I noticed several by young Jewish residents. One included the statement "too much time, too little to do". Couldn't they have been hired to help fix up some of the housing for the new employees coming into town? A friend told me a few years back when her relative in Postville had died unexpectedly that the family didn't have her buried yet when they were getting a call about someone wanting to buy the house. Hopefully as a privately owned family home and not rental housing.

[Ben]

Thanks for clarification Shmarya. If this state of disrepair is normal for Rubashkin's housing, then this is clear abuse that must be stopped.

[Joanne Groth]

Hopefully the courts will decide to punish Agri-Processers for the human right violations they committed as well as to the slave labor tactics they use. Deducting so much from the underpriviliged workers that at the end of the pay period they have no money in their paycheck. I won't think they could buy everybody off.What about workers they imported from Palau. They will owe their soul to the company store forever.