Iconic Kiruv Ploy Examined In Light Of Agriprocessors Scandals

It's the iconic line uttered by almost every kiruv worker – a.k.a., missionary or outreach worker – Will your children and grandchildren be Jewish?

That question focuses on simple genetic identity and group affiliation. But it doesn't focus…

…on what type of person your descendants will be.

So, let's ask the question differently: Will your children and grandchildren be kind, moral, and ethical people?

Does Orthodoxy eve help with that? Does Chabad?

Let's ask The Heretic.

Comments

[steve]

I truly believe that the majority of Orthodox Jews (albeit silent)are appalled and embarrassed to be associated in any way with the Rubashkins and their business. Just go around talking to people in the shuls (after davening of course) and you will have a clearer perspective. The propoganda that Lubinsky and these hand-picked rabbis have unleashed on the press is not having any effect whatsoever. You can fool some of the people some of the time....

[David Bar-Magen]

Shmarya:

While I am in agreement over your analysis of the scandal, I have not missed your backhanded criticism of the kiruv movement's use of Jewish identity. Why should halacha as it applies to Jewish affiliation be a "ploy," while halacha as it applies to the exploitation of workers be the backbone of your expose?

Would it be fair if someone were to reverse it and say that halacha is merely a "ploy" to make Agri look bad?

[Shmarya]

Steve –

Until I see this silent majority become vocal and public – and use their real names – it's like they don't exist.

David –

I don't follow you.

My point is that, as long as the rabbis keep silent about (or shill for) the Rubashkins, any talk of a higher Orthodox morality is a lie.

Same for Kolko, Mondrowitz, WxTrust, etc., ad nauseum.

[David Bar-Magen]

Shmarya:

My point is that you refer to the common kiruv device of asking, "Will your children/grandchildren be Jewish?" as a ploy. This implies that it is in some way sneaky and calculating instead of a mere statement of halachic Jewish identity, albeit a polarizing one.

I'm only pointing out that using halacha to strengthen a kiruv argument is no more a "ploy" than using halacha to strengthen the impact of the Agri scandal. There is no disingenuity there--it's simply the law.

[David Bar-Magen]

But yes, I do understand and agree with your assertion that the rabbanim must speak up.

[Rachel Batya]

When my daughter was small, I was quite obsessed about the question of Jewish continuity for her and her children--was I observant enough, was I educated enough, were we doing enough mitzvot, and on and on and on. Then I began to realize that the single most important factor was whether she saw good, consistent, ethical Jewish role models--not just in our family, but in the community at large. If she saw a Jewish community full of hypocrisy (and hypocrisy is not limited to the Haredi or Chabad communities by any stretch of the imagination), why would she want to identify as a Jew? How would she feel as she watched people talk Torah at one moment, and then act in complete opposition to it the next? As she grew older, this became of much greater concern to me.

Unfortunately, there's a lot of chillul hashem out there, and oftentimes, there isn't a lot I can do about it except to call it what it is--which I have done, in my daughter's presence, early and often, for many years now. Thank G-d, she is now at an age in which she can be critical about these kinds of things. She is able to look at the world in the framework of Jewish ethics and challenge the world's insanities. To me, this is central to being a Jew, and central to Jewish continuity.

[Chaim]

I went shopping last night at a newly reopened kosher super. I really did not notice anything different from before when they closed due to finances. After paying for my purchase I had a few words with the mashchiach who was there in the earlier incarnation. I mentioned that they might want to bring in meat products other than Agri if they want to be more successful than before due to the growing Chilul going on. He immediately told me about the visit of the Rabbis to the Iowa plant and everything was"perfect" and that the local head of the ORB approves. Thats that. So here in S. Fl. everything is back to normal. I came home and read up on the whole visit since I have been otherwares lately. In short all the PR and support Agri has gotten from the OU establishment and others might bring them through unless the Feds do indict the real guilty ones. In the mean time the damage continues, I liken it to the erosion of the Israeli defense strategic position as long as Olmert keeps hanging around. I can hear the erosion going on as I write, so to the whole Kashrus industry has much to answer to.

[Yochanan Lavie]

IMO, traditional Judaism is the "true church." I define it as ranging from the right-wing of the Conservative movement and the Karaites on the left, to the "chardal" chareidim on the right. I think it needs a Refomation. Not the same as "Reform" Judaism, which started out as an imitation of Protestant Christianity and ended up not believing in revelation. (NO offense intended to my Reform bretheren, who are just as much Jews as I am- but with a different ideology). But a Reformation that will purge the hero-worship and superstition that has infiltrated it. The Rambam, Hirsch, and Chacham Yosef Qappach, amoung others, have tried to do this. The old institutions need to be overthrown. They are utterly corrupt. That is just my opinion.

[reader]

"chardal chareidim" ? What's that?