BREAKING! Obama Blasts Agriprocessors

According to the Des Moines Register, US Senator Barack Obama, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, said this in response to a question about Agriprocessors:

"We’ve got to crack down on employers who are taking advantage of undocumented workers,” he said. “When you read about a meatpacking plant hiring 13-year-olds, 14-year-olds – that is some of the most dangerous, difficult work there is. … They have kids in there wielding buzz saws and cleavers? It’s ridiculous. And the only reason they’re hiring these folks is because they want to avoid paying people decent wages and providing them decent benefits.…

“We’re a nation of laws and we’re a nation of immigrants, and I think those two things can go hand in hand."

Comments

[craig]

I think that Lubinsky should invite Obama to Postville for another tour. Rabbi Lerner will show him around and Obama will see that all is good.

[estye]

I hope this doesn't cost Obama Florida.

[Carol Ann Varley]

Did he say Agriprocessors was an "obamanation"?

[State of Postville 2]

Carol Ann - I think you're confusing that with the lyrics from and old Moody Blues song. They were a barack and roll band in the 70's.

Just another reason why not to vote for Obama

[McCainman]

another reason why not to vota for Obama

[Rachel Batya]

Carol, I don't know where you're getting your information. Agri is definitely *not* part of the obama nation. The Rubashkins donate to Republicans, I told.

[Rachel Batya]

*I'm told*

[just sayin]

he's for illeagal immigration, just not 4 taking advantage of them...

[pulitzer4shmarya]

amazing.
can shmarya make this story get any bigger.
The front cover of the NY Times many times, the op-ed section of the NY times, numerous articles in every publication in the country.
The governor of Iowa and now Obama.
It seems everyone reads this blog.

[isabel]

Iowa is the HEARTLAND of America,and we have been just stabbed in the heart again America,Obama may not know that this nation was settled 150 years ago,now people only can come by legal means not jumping the fence and stealing what they want when they want it.Regan tried amnesty and look what happened,we need our laws to be obeyed and we expect our leaders to keep their oath of office. Postville Iowa is a third world hellhole and innocent people that pay their taxes are under seige!!! Where is the calvery?

[rebitzman]

isabel - perhaps you need to RE READ THE MESSAGE.

Obama spoke out against everything you say you oppose (so you rant against him really doesn't make a lot of sense).

[JN]

Not sure where to post this:

Have you seen the documentary Leaving the Fold?

An insightful documentary about people leaving chasidic communities. Its funded by a Canadian television station and is airing on TV in a few weeks (and some film festivals too)

I caught the preview last night at Concordia University in Montreal, it was awesome. the place was packed with about 400 people. Afterwards there was a Q&A with the director and some of the people from the movie. The crowd expressed a lot of concern about what is going on in the hasidic communities.

[isabel]

rebitzman...please check out the Des Moines Register story,sounds like Obama wants to grant amnesty to those illegals that are already here...thats millions of ALIENS,Reagan already done that in the 80's We need a leader who will stop this intrusion,Fine the big companies that are hiring them .

[Rachel Batya]

--this nation was settled 150 years ago,now people only can come by legal means not jumping the fence and stealing what they want when they want it--

Actually, it was "settled" by Europeans starting over 400 years ago, and they were only too happy to steal what they wanted when they wanted it--from the people who had actually been LIVING here for, oh, about 10,000 years.

Except for the people whose land was taken from them, there is no one in this country who is not descended from an immigrant. To start railing against desperate people who only want the same things our ancestors wanted is really a bit over the top.

[steve]

I'm switching to Obama! Just kidding, no way! At least he's right about one thing.

[isabel]

rachel....maybe when you meet the next desperate person, you could just hand over you SS#,keys to your car ,and your home.Our ancestors were immigrants, but they came thru Ellis Island and had a sponsor.I welcome all immigrants if they follow the rules.

[susan]

Obama visited Gunder (about 6-7 miles south of Postville, much smaller than Postville). One thing I had wondered if readers from larger cities realized was that there were few choices of places of employment for teenagers than in larger cities. Some of those teenagers might have been working in suburban grocery stores, fast-food restaurants if those opportunities were available. One teenage employee's mother was widowed and she was disabled from a fall. I'm sure she had no things like social security payments for her kids that other widowed people from the U.S. might get or disability payments. This was done due to economic need of the kid's families in Postville and in Mexico, Guatemala. I am sad to read that many of the Somalian workers in Postville had been dismissed (if that was true). They have been good employees at turkey plants in Minnesota and western Wisconsin. It may take time to work at desired speeds if that type work was new to them.

[Rachel Batya]

rachel....maybe when you meet the next desperate person, you could just hand over you SS#,keys to your car ,and your home.--

I'm sorry, Isabel, but I can't remember any halacha that requires that.

And by the way, I co-direct a Jewish community service organization that sends money on a regular basis to desperate people here and abroad. And did I mention that I take no salary?

--Our ancestors were immigrants, but they came thru Ellis Island and had a sponsor.--

Actually, my great-grandfather came through the port of Boston, along with the rest of my immigrant ancestors, and the only reason that were allowed to enter is that American industry needed cheap labor. And guess what? It still does. Most agribusiness could not run with the sweat of underpaid undocumented immigrants, and it's a shanda that these people put food on our table and we give them no rights and no security. Shame on us.

--I welcome all immigrants if they follow the rules.--

Kinda like the immigrants following the rules at Wounded Knee?

[Rachel Batya]

--I'm switching to Obama! Just kidding, no way! --

Could I tempt you with an Obama bumper sticker in Hebrew? (Not that I'm trying to buy your allegiance or anything. I just have an extra one and I dislike clutter.)

I would have an extra two, but the last time we were in NYC, someone swiped two of our three Obama bumper stickers off our car. They did leave the third one, however. It said "McCain: Bush's Third Term." I guess the person thought that was a pro-McCain sticker.

[Aharon Varady]

I'll take that extra Obama sticker, thank you.

[Jake]

I give Nobama credit.

Not sure if he understands the myriad number of potential complications it could engender in the Jewish community

If a presidential candidate could say somthing I would think some Orthodox rabbis should be speaking up.

Herring you listening?

[Isaac Balbin]

Obama said that the USA should pressure Iran soon so that Israel doesn't feel forced to attack them. Gee, that's innovative. I mean, that's all been said before. Populism?

Obama said they should crack down on employers taking advantage of undocumented employees. What is this political speak? Is he happy not to crack down on illegal immigrants using fake documents who are working in an organisation with a recognised safety certificate? What does undocumented mean? More populism?

Wait for it. If he thinks he'll get Orthodox votes by visiting Agriprocessors and saying he thinks they have learned from their past undocumented errors, he'll do it. You can bet on it.

If Agri donate to his campaign, I'm sure that will be called bribery :-)

[Isaac Balbin]

Jake,
I'm not sure one of your mentors would have approved of you dropping Rabbinic titles. He often dropped his own, but that was his prerogative. I'd suggest Rabbi Herring is more appropriate and costs you just 5 letters?

[estye]

Wow... really disturbing how much anti-Obama stuff came out with this little, innocuous post.

[shmuel]

"...and it's a shanda that these people put food on our table and we give them no rights and no security. Shame on us."

Don't be silly. Shame on lawbreakers, that is, illegal aliens. They have no legal right to be here---sorry to break the news to you--- even though some corrupt businesses put them to slave labor. The fact that they jump the fence and run to a town and take any job they can doesn't mean they have the right to be here. Why is it so hard for you liberals to understand that lawbreakers have no right to cut to the head of the line, ahead of those waiting their turn? Your ancestors, and mine, emigrated legally from their original countries. They broke no rules, and were naturalized. These illegal aliens can do the same. They choose not to. No sympathy for lawbreaking illegal aliens, many of whom are violent criminals as well. Catch them, prosecute them, imprison them for decades. Fine to death the businesses who hire them. That'll stop the avalanche of illegal aliens. They'll stay in Mexico and Guatemala where they belong. Let them build up their own miserable economies.

[Rachel Batya]

--Why is it so hard for you liberals to understand that lawbreakers have no right to cut to the head of the line, ahead of those waiting their turn?--

Yup, just the other day, I says to my husband, I says: "You know, honey, I could really use a change. Let's go find a place, you and me, where we can clean urinals, pick lettuce in the blazing sun, live in substandard housing, and work below minimum wage. And you won't mind if I'm sexually harassed, will you? Because if you say something to the boss about it, we'll have to go all the way back to the end of that long line of other Americans whose dream it is to live like this."

But enough about me.

The fact is that a) agribusiness could not run without undocumented workers and b) there is no provision, such as an amnesty or guest worker program, that would make them legal. I would be all for that.

--Your ancestors, and mine, emigrated legally from their original countries. They broke no rules, and were naturalized. These illegal aliens can do the same. They choose not to. No sympathy for lawbreaking illegal aliens, many of whom are violent criminals as well. Catch them, prosecute them, imprison them for decades.--

You realize, of course, that the KKK uttered similar sentiments at the beginning of the 20th century regarding the hordes of immigrants that included your ancestors and mine (including the part that "many of them are criminals").It was this anti-immigrant sentiment that fueled a great deal of KKK activity during that period, particularly in the north. I had a friend (now deceased) who remembers cross burnings as a child--not in Mississippi, but in New England. It was not a race issue, then. It was an immigrant issue.

--Fine to death the businesses who hire them. That'll stop the avalanche of illegal aliens. They'll stay in Mexico and Guatemala where they belong. Let them build up their own miserable economies--

One of the reasons their economies are so miserable is that American trade policies and monopolies on major exports have crippled a number of countries, not just in Latin America, but around the globe.

[uncle joe mccarthy]

Rachel

for years, meat packing plants were filled with legal citizens who did an honest days work for an honest days pay...to say that these places couldnt exist without illegals misses the fact that the reason illegal labor is used is only to increase profits...profits that are not passed down to the consumer in lower cost

the idea that americans wont do hard work is the greatest myth ever foisted upon the american people

americans built this country...

yes, we have always used immigrant labor...but there was always upward mobility...in today's system...this does not exist

please explain to me how americans wont do contruction or housecleaning...it isnt so

yes, our trade policies have hurt other economies...they have also crippled our own...which is why we dont need immigration reform...we need to rethink our trade policies....we need to bring back our manufacturing base...we need to stop outsourcing tech and customer service jobs

and yes, we need to fine and jail those who would take advantage of any labor

[Rachel Batya]

“When a stranger resides with you in your land, you shall not oppress the stranger. The stranger who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you. You shall love the stranger as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt I am the Lord your God.”
(Vayikra, 19:33-34)

I believe this passage requires us, among other things, to do what we tell our kids to do: share. Ir doesn't say, "Send the SOBs back to the miserable economies they came from."

The current hysteria over immigration is resulting in threats, physical assaults, and the murder of not only undocumented immigrants, but people of Hispanic origin who are here legally and are, in some cases, US citizens. They're being scapegoated for the fact that our country is in a shambles.

If you really want to go after the people bankrupting our schools, our towns, and our children's futures, go after Bush and Company, because they are the ones who are "stealing what they want when they want it." Guatemalans who work 12-14 hour days and end up in jail, essentially for the crime of being poor, aren't the source of the problem. They are some of its casualties.

[Rachel Batya]

--I'll take that extra Obama sticker, thank you.--

If there were a confidential way for you to send me your address, I would gladly send it to you! The Hebrew bumper stickers are available at www.barackobama.com.

[Rachel Batya]

--Obama said they should crack down on employers taking advantage of undocumented employees. What is this political speak?--

"Undocumented workers" refers to workers who don't have visas and other documents allowing them to legally work in this country under current law. It is a respectful and accurate alternative to the term "illegal aliens," which sounds (and is) pejorative, especially when people spell the second word with their caps lock on, as in "millions of ALIENS."

[Archie Bunker]

Did the Des Moines Register leave out the rest of Obama's words so as not to scare away people from voting for him?

http://www.qctimes.com/articles/2008/08/25/news/local/doc48b2d21680c15158885718.txt?sPos=3

On the immigration issue, when asked about the meatpacking plant raid in Postville, Iowa, he said: “We’re a nation of laws and we’re a nation of immigrants.”

Those two things need to come together in a way that makes sense, he said. “Make them learn English” on their way to citizenship, he said.

[Archie Bunker]

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080825/NEWS/80825013/-1/ent05

Governor's spokesman Troy Price said today that Culver "respectfully declines a visit to the Postville facility at this time."

Price said that "if Agriprocessors in the future choose to 'take the high road' in their business practices, the governor would be pleased with that course of action."

[sage]

The Governor is basically telling Agri in a polite politically correct way: "TAKE YOUR OFFER AND SHOVE IT; I'LL SEE YOU IN COURT."

[steve]

The following is the official response to Barak Obama issued by Nathan Lewin on behalf of Agri:

This is a shocking statement from a former president of the Harvard Law Review and former constitutional law professor who has sworn, as a United States Senator, to uphold the Constitution which prescribes a presumption of innocence until guilt is proved beyond a reasonable doubt. Before he made public accusations accusing a meat-packing plant of hiring 13 and 14 year olds “only……to avoid paying people decent wages and providing them decent benefits” and declared that the minors were assigned to work with “buzz saws and cleavers,” did Senator Obama look at the evidence or consider the plant’s categorical denial of these allegations?

Agriprocessors recruited only those who were over 18 and knowingly accepted for employment only applicants who said they were over 18. Applicants may have lied about their age to get a job.

Agriprocessors fired four girls in 2007 when it discovered, from its own internal investigation, that they were under age.

The Iowa Labor Department conducted an on-site inspection in April 2008 with an expert at spotting minors and did not identify to Agriprocessors any person on its work-force who looked to be under 18.

No one alleges that any employee who was later identified as under 18 was working at Agriprocessors with “buzz saws and cleavers.”

Everyone on the Agriprocessors payroll, regardless of age, received wages and benefits at or above industry standards.

[Archie Bunker]

Which propaganda outlets are publishing that crap from Lewin?

[shmuel]

"When a stranger resides with you in your land, you shall not oppress the stranger. The stranger who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you. You shall love the stranger as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt I am the Lord your God.”
(Vayikra, 19:33-34)
I believe this passage requires us, among other things, to do what we tell our kids to do: share. Ir doesn't say, 'Send the SOBs back to the miserable economies they came from.' "

That's not American law. It's Torah law. What Jews have to do in Israel, and what Americans have to do in America, are two different things. Look into it.

" 'Undocumented workers' refers to workers who don't have visas and other documents allowing them to legally work in this country under current law. It is a respectful and accurate alternative to the term "illegal aliens," which sounds (and is) pejorative, especially when people spell the second word with their caps lock on, as in 'millions of ALIENS.' "

No. They are indeed illegal, and they are alien to America. They don't belong here. They weren't born here. They are not citizens. They have no legal rights to education, hospital care, anything. They are illegal aliens in every single sense of that term. But, because you're so sensitive, I won't capitalize the word "alien" since it freaks you out.

The fact that hatemongerers like the KKK said what they said, and did what they did,
changes nothing. They hated, terrorized and discriminated against American citizens, and that's illegal. These people are not citizens. You have not explained, in your typical liberal way of selective tears and selective pity---these people deserve my pity, those don't---why twelve million Hispanic illegal aliens deserve to jump to the head of the line and gain amnesty when millions of others await their turn fair and square. These deserve a break, you feel. And what of those awaiting their turn? Silence.
That's not a way to run a kindergarten classroom. It certainly isn't a way to run a country of laws of 300 million people.
I, and millions of other conservatives like me, unlike the KKK, welcome immigration. Legal immigration. But that's a tall order for a liberal like you to understand.

[sage]

With friends like Nathan Lewin, does Agri need any enemies?

[pultizer4shmarya]

2 comments:
1) my ancestors did not come to this country legally. We are here legally now, but we had to buy our way out of Europe, and bribe for false papers. That was almost 100 years ago, so I think statute of limitations are up now.
2) Nathan Lewin is not pure scum. I have dealt with him personally and he does many questionably ethically things. However he has taken many cases pro-bono that help out the Jewish community as a whole. However, I think it is wrong for him to defend Agriprocessors legally and then also defend Kashrut morally by stating the story of Israel Salanter is false.
I think he is losing his stature in the Jewish community by defending the Agriprocessor thugs in the paper. He should stick to doing it in court.

[State of Postville III]

People here will be getting Obama stickers and parking their cars at Agri's gates. They cost this town over a million dollars on lawyer fees--nice IA town where a business can be established and settle all the folks and run the locals "out of town." Ethics is not a word that is used to describe the Rubashkin crowd.

[BaltimoreYid]

For the last thirty two years I have earned an honest living as an electrician. So much for the manual labor jobs that most American's don't want narishkeit. I agree that we should not take advantage of illegal immigrants but the question I have is why are they here in the first place if they are illegal?

[Brian Kresge]

My own ancestors came here illegally from Ukraine and Latvia during the Pale. They did things like claim that they lost records in fire in order to obtain legal documentation until they could make "natural born citizens" in the New World.

Businesses in Central Pennsylvania and Maryland were known to abuse the cheap labor afforded by the immigrant (legal and illegal) "Russian Hebrews" of the time, and I'm sure that's not unique to this area. BaltimoreYid, take note, a lot of illegal Jewish immigration at the turn of the 19th/20th century came through the port in your backyard, and it's not hard to understand why they came...just fast forward and apply, only in Spanish instead of Yiddish.

[Rachel Batya]

--1) my ancestors did not come to this country legally. We are here legally now, but we had to buy our way out of Europe, and bribe for false papers. --

Good point. It reminds me that my ancestors were among the best draft dodgers in eastern Europe. And they weren't alone. Every time a border changed and Jews came under the tzar's jurisdiction, many crossed the border ILLEGALLY in order to avoid conscription.

It's a good thing they did, too. From what I gather, the locals didn't have many good things to say about the invasion of those alien Jews into their countries, either. Who wants a bunch of foreigners? Who cares about their problems? Let 'em go back to where they came from. To hell with them. It's not our problem.

Sound at all familiar?

[isabel]

HEY, How about the commandment(Thou shall not covet thy neighbors goods) or thou shall not steal) I'm sure the illegals in Postville are saying 10 hail marys for their sins.

[Rebecca R.]

Just because Agriprocessors was Jewish-run, it should be totally exempt from criticism? Face it--just becaue something calls itself kosher, that doesn't mean it is.

Barack Obama is a mensch.

[shmuel]

"Every time a border changed and Jews came under the tzar's jurisdiction, many crossed the border ILLEGALLY in order to avoid conscription."

They sure did, and thank God they did. The czar was as evil as they come, and Jews were routinely beaten, persecuted, and killed in much of Poland, Russia, the Ukraine, etc. on a regular basis. And why were they so poorly treated? Strictly because of their religion. It was not economics, and looking for menial labor jobs so that they could send money back to their family, which forced them from border to border. They wanted to be left alone for a change and be allowed to live without fear of violence. That's a far different scenario than the one that confronts us here today. Illegal aliens are here for one reason only: money, which they send back to Mexico and Guatemala. Sorry, no sympathy there. But, of course, for you Marxists, for whom Amerikkka can do no right, it's all the same, isn't it?

"It's a good thing they did, too. From what I gather, the locals didn't have many good things to say about the invasion of those alien Jews into their countries, either. Who wants a bunch of foreigners? Who cares about their problems? Let 'em go back to where they came from. To hell with them. It's not our problem. Sound at all familiar?"

Know something? If there had been a system of naturalization in place in those countries to where the Jews fled, the Jews would have lined up legally to get their citizenship, unlike the illegal aliens of today, who have absolutely no respect for American law.
And the negative response of the Russian and Ukrainian locals? Nu, what can you do? When you're running for your life, from one bad place to another, you run for your life, and the hell with what the locals say. The Jews weren't going from place to place looking to improve their cash flow, to send money back to their poor families. They were genuine refugees, trying to escape the harshest of laws which were legislated against them based strictly on their faith. How you can even begin to compare these two very different fact patterns...well, you're a Marxist, so yes, religion, economics, persecuted Jews, unpersecuted, undereducated Mexicans...it's all the same to you.

[Rachel Batya]

Shmuel--

First you say I'm a liberal. Now you say I'm a Marxist. Do you think they're the same thing?

Let me clarify:

Am I a liberal? Yes.

Am I a Marxist? No.

It's clear that we have very different ideas about the immigration situation, and that we are very attached our respective points of view. You are not going to change my mind, and I am not going to change yours. I don't enjoy arguing just for the sake of arguing, so I'll be moving on to another discussion.

Kol tuv,
Rachel

[Yochanan Lavie]

If McCain is Bush's third term, Obama is Carter's second term. He gets props for bashing the Rubbishcan, but I will be living in a rubbish can if he raises taxes. Scumbaggery is bipartisan, that's why I'm an Independent.

[Rubashkin still hasn't been charged with anything]

"When you read about..."
So Obama's criticism is based on trial by newspaper. I guess we should happy that he's not calling for prison terms for the weapons and drug factories that wasn't. Tell me Shmarya, when the smoke has clears and none of the Rubashkins are indicted are you gonna to realize that you're just another Jewish anti-semite trying to excuse your non-observance by trying to find ills amongst frum people? Your holier than thou attitude is based on....What? How many hundreds of people (Jews and non-Jews) did you give jobs to? How many hundreds of families we're supported because of your business. (Built from scratch over decades?) How many people have you given a substantial Tzedoka contribution over the last 6 months while stand with your hand outstretched to schnorr from the public while trying to destroy a man who has not yet been accused, let alone indicted for any crime? Keep bashing Rubashkin. I know it makes you feel that your so much more morally superior than he is when in fact your a professional crybaby.

[Shmarya]

So Obama's criticism is based on trial by newspaper.

Idiot.

Dozens of OSHA violations. Hundreds of former workers alleging mistreatment. Fake green cards found stacked in Agriprocessors' HR office by federal agents. Two guilty pleas to aiding and abetting identity theft and the employment of illegal workers. from senior Agriprocessors supervisors. Clear evidence that most workers were illiterate in Spanish and English and had no idea what documents were needed or what they looked like.

And that is a short list.

How many people have you given a substantial Tzedoka contribution over the last 6 months while stand with your hand outstretched to schnorr from the public while trying to destroy a man who has not yet been accused, let alone indicted for any crime?

That is simply false.

You have multiple repeat NLRB violations. Violation of Humane Slaughter law. 57 counts of child labor violations. The EPA violations. Employment of almost 800 illegal aliens. Massive evidence of extortion and abuse of those illegal aliens.

Past all this, you clearly have no understanding of halakha.

Nowhere in halakha does it say we should wait for a non-Jewish government to find someone guilty.

What halakha tells us to do is view the evidence – including past misbehavior – and then act accordingly.

What you do is disregard all the evidence – including judgments against Agriprocessors.

Process that.