Agriprocessors Production At 50% Of Pre-Raid Output, Spokesman Claims

That spokesman is Chaim Abrahams, and he's quoted in a long AP feature on Postville published in yesterday's International Herald Tribune.

A small town struggles after immigration raid
The Associated Press

POSTVILLE, Iowa: A vague unease whispered through this tiny town in northeastern Iowa, where the rolling hills are a study in vivid colors — red barns, white clapboard houses, and vibrant green cornfields plowed with almost architectural precision.

It drifted through Postville's downtown, where restaurants serving tamales share three short blocks with El Vaquero clothing store, a kosher food market and the Spice-N-Ice Liquor and Redemption store.

It nagged at Irma Rucal that Monday morning after Mother's Day weekend, as the Guatemalan immigrant worked her regular shift salting chickens at Agriprocessors, the world's largest kosher meatpacking plant and Postville's biggest employer.

Then, just after 10 a.m., that insistent murmur burst to the surface with a frantic shout: "La Migra! Salvese el que pueda!" Immigration! Save yourself if you can.

The bulk of the plant's 900 workers — mostly Guatemalan and Mexican immigrants — dashed out doors, through hallways and into corners, trying to escape federal agents conducting what would be the largest immigration raid in U.S. history.…

A small town struggles after immigration raid - Print Version - International Herald Tribune.pdf

Comments

[Archie Bunker]

I don't believe Abrahams one bit, just like Lubinsky has been lying all along about production levels and only "spot shortages here & there"

[rebitzman]

MSNBC just picked this story up as well.

Looks like Agri's just rolling in publicity.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

I hate to rain on your parade, Shmarya, but %50 is actually a low estimate for the beef, and poultry is actually a lot closer to %100.

[WoolSIlkCotton]

I wonder what brand of meat they will serve the Rubashkin family when they demand kosher food in prison.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

By the way, woolsilkcotton, I responded to your bigoted assumption on an earlier thread, but in case you do not see it I will reiterate here that I am the author of these posts, I receive no "help" from anyone nor do I need any.

Frankly, it's a bit delusional to think that FailedMessiah would be the focus of a PR effort. This is a personal interest of mine. Try to cloak that bigotry - it taints your other comments.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

As token evidence that I am capable of expressing myself, and to hopefully lay that bigoted position to rest, here is a short-lived blog I blogged in 2005.

[WoolSIlkCotton]

Meow, scratch! I didn't know cat meat was kosher, but at Rubashkin's, anything goes.

Nice try, acting indignant and even attempting to lay a guilt trip on me. Keep in mind I've had a Jewish mother, wife and daughter. You cannot possibly induce guilt in me, because you are an amateur.

Imagine, a Hasid accusing someone else of being bigoted. This blogsite, by the way, is the perfect place for a 5W PR effort. And of course, it's just a personal interest of yours.

Your elementary school level of English skills could not possibly be generating 'your' postings. Nobody here believes you are writing alone.

[rebitzman]

++Frankly, it's a bit delusional to think that FailedMessiah would be the focus of a PR effort. ++

Was the fact that your PR firm MADE it such a focus also "delusional"?

[rebitzman]

++Nobody here believes you are writing alone.++

Broad brush - not entirely accurate.

[sparky]

Getzel sure can B.S.,and so fluently, too!I'm sure he does his family proud! Too bad no one else is impressed!

[Carol Ann Varley]

I understand kosher and halal is available to the observant in federal prisons.

The AP article is not objective reporting--where are the quotes from victims of identity theft?

There is a legal process to work in this country. If a citizen of Postville violated a state or federal law the force of law would be upon them--no exemptions.

Is meat worth the price of human exploitation and animal misery?

The dinner plate is a mirror and its reflection is you.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

Woolsilkcotton: Nice. In one comment you managed to call me bigoted and ignorant without even knowing me, and all in response to your bigotry in asserting no Chassid could possibly be literate.

And yes, this blog would be a good place for a PR effort. For a guy calling strangers illiterate I suggest you look up the word focus.

Rebitzman, while 5WPR did post here, it was by no means a focus. I have been more or less exclusively posting here. To believe an initiative would focus specifically on FM is delusional.

Finally, a note of clarification. A reader with whom I correspond via email challenged my %100 on the poultry, and I will clarify.

A single shift produces very close to what was produced pre-raid. That was what I meant. To me that is an indicator of a degree of success in the rebuilding effort.

As far as output, we are beyond %50 on poultry output, but not near %100. For the record.

[Anonymous]

I hate to rain on your parade, Shmarya, but %50 is actually a low estimate for the beef, and poultry is actually a lot closer to %100.

Getzel, aside from junkets from non-impartial Rabbis, what can you do to convince people that Agri is on the up and up.

Personally, I have totally eliminated beef from my diet because of serious questions.

I do not regard Rav Weissmandel as a reliable source after his repeated failures in Monsey.

Time for KAJ exclusive Kashrut. Everyone knows they can't be bought.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

Anonymous: In matters of trust, you set your own bar.

About the KAJ:
There are those on this blog who argue that KAJ was bought. You see, they would like to present KAJ's departure from Agri as being because of Kashrus concerns - in other words, these are people who put Kashrus before profit.

Trouble is, they gave notice before they left, and allowed continued production without modification. This calls into question the argument that there is a problem with the process, so they argued KAJ was paid off.

So, the argument is inconsistent and self-contradictory, big deal.

[rebitzman]

++Rebitzman, while 5WPR did post here, it was by no means a focus. ++

Well - please share with us. Other than pretending to be people other than who they were not, and posting to blogs (PRIMARILY this blog) - what EXACTLY has 5WPR done for you?

The lies absolutely were a focus - and part of a concentrated effort to discredit those who "oppose" Rubashkins. Whether that "opposition" was to the Rubashkins themselves, or the reported practices at Rubashkin owned facilities didn't seem to matter.

You can't change history, Getzel - especially when it's recent history.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous: In matters of trust, you set your own bar.

And right now, Agri doesn't measure up.

Tens of thousands of Jewish homes are seeing your full court publicity press and saying to themselves (as my grandmother used to say)

The fish stinks from the mouth.

So right now, I'm passing on your beef.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

I was not involved in PR, rebitzman, but I think you recall a guy named Engelmayer? You should - he was quoted in just about every article on Agri from when they were hired until about the time the sockpuppetry was uncovered. Don't tell me you forgot such recent history...

When said sockpuppetry hit the fan I believe there were a number of blogs which uncovered the same IP address being used - I don't think you can argue that there was a focus on this blog. It was one of a number of blogs.

The fact remains that FM itself is not exactly a critical PR point. I believe you yourself mentioned MSNBC. Have you seen any AgriP PR addressing those areas at all?

To believe that Agriprocessors would spend PR money and direct it at FM instead of in the national media is a case study for delusions of grandeur.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

Anonymous: It's a free country and a free market, although many would like to change that. As a consumer you are free to make your choices based on media reports, blogs, and allegations. G-d bless America.

[rebitzman]

++I was not involved in PR, rebitzman, but I think you recall a guy named Engelmayer? You should - he was quoted in just about every article on Agri from when they were hired until about the time the sockpuppetry was uncovered. Don't tell me you forgot such recent history...++

What I remember is that he continued to release statements - well after you told me you didn't think they represented you any longer.

Getzel - pre sockpuppet, I can count on one hand the number of statements I read from Engelmayer. I have seen more SINCE. And the fact is - words are words and actions are actions. Their words are meaningless in the face of what they DID.

Frankly - your "it's everyone's fault but ours" attitude is starting to wear thin with me. I live in a world of facts - let's review a few"

1. There are no allegations facing Rubashkins that they could not proactively say "we reject this behavior" today. Now.

2. There is nothing preventing Rubashkins from becoming transparent on the subject of these issues and these issues alone.

3. If your company is clean and so remains, they have nothing to lose and everything to gain from said transparency.

4. From the outside - and from your own words, it seems clear that the strategy is instead "damn the torpedoes - full speed ahead". If you paid 5W to formulate said strategy - I suggest that you demand a refund.

5. That over 1/3rd of your workforce was deemed illegal is a matter of fact - not "media reports, blogs, and allegations".

6. It is fact that since the raid, in spite of very aggressive recruitment efforts, you have had trouble attracting, and more telling - KEEPING talent.

7. The KAJ DID walk away from you just prior to the raids. Opinion: that they have not said way speaks to THEIR integrity (I would suggest - they have some).

8. The AG of Iowa is currently considering a recommendation that your business be charged for violating child labor laws.

9. It is a fact that your firm says that they are sending food to the local food bank - it is also a fact that the local food bank says that you are not.

10. Fact - after 5W was caught posing as R. Allen, Agri not only did not condemn them - they did not fire them (in spite of your suggestion to the contrary).

11. Fact - your company has in the past, and continues to treat many its dealers with utter contempt and disregard. Spoke to our supplier here (out of respect and concern for the Charadi families who rely on the supply) - and he reports that attitudes toward him have not improved, and in fact have degraded. He has not seen a single scrap of kosher food come into his store in well over a month.

++Have you seen any AgriP PR addressing those areas at all?++

Nope - they aren't doing such a good job, are they? Let's face it - they are armed only with words - while what few facts there are rest firmly in the "other" camp.

You know - when we started talking - you were willing to concede issues - willing to accept that changes had to be made - openly stated that the idea of Glatt Kosher chicken and fish was silly.....

....and it's all come tumbling down.

With all respect, my friend. You need to examine whether instead of pulling Agri out of the poo pile (which you told me with absolute sincerity was your goal) that it has in fact sucked you into it. Company loyalty is fine - family loyalty is better still - but not whe n it comes at the cost of personal integrity.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

Long post.

Re: Engelmayer. I don't believe the facts back up your portrayal. Since you are keen on facts I would be interested in seeing the number of times Engelmayer represented the company since the sockpuppet thing. Not the amount of times he was contacted, the amount of times he said something.

Until #6 you haven't said anything I disagree with or that is not in progress.

On #6 I am sad to say you are misinformed.

On #9 I assume you either misunderstood something, or are misinformed. I saw invoices of donations with my own eyes.

As to #10, maybe Agri has the integrity you find so laudable in KAJ. If I remember correctly they did issue a statement which said they did not authorize or condone that behavior, and contrary to your assessment I have not seen activity from 5W aside from him passing on media requests.

On #11, I am sorry to hear that and am working to improve those types of issues.

I agree with that last sentence of yours, and will remain true to the values of loyalty and integrity even in the face of disapproval by people who judge from their living rooms based on partial information.

[WoolSIlkCotton]

++As token evidence that I am capable of expressing myself, and to hopefully lay that bigoted position to rest, here is a short-lived blog I blogged in 2005.++

Brilliant work; that is, brilliantly taken from various Chabad publications and remixed into some pseudo-intellectual pious claptrap.

Getzel, you are too inept to be a good con artist.

[Nigritude Ultramarine]

I wonder what brand of meat they will serve the Rubashkin family when they demand kosher food in prison.

I wonder if they'll be able to crush beer cans with their buttocks by the time they enter prison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous: It's a free country and a free market, although many would like to change that. As a consumer you are free to make your choices based on media reports, blogs, and allegations. G-d bless America.

Choice, believe the governmental authorities or a group with a history of criminal activity.

Give me some time to think this through....

[Getzel Rubashkin]

I would challange you, bigot, to find any evidence of plagiarizing. It was "brilliantly taken from various Chabad publications" in the sense that I study the philosophy and buy it.

And that writing quality puts the lie to your bigoted rhetoric about illiterate Chassidim either way. So crawl into some hole somewhere and stop giving bigotry a bad name.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

Anonymous: Or, choice 3, which is allow for the systems we have in this country to ascertain facts before you crucify someone. I didn't mean to complicate things for you.

[WoolSIlkCotton]

++Or, choice 3, which is allow for the systems we have in this country to ascertain facts before you crucify someone.++

Now Getzel is comparing himself to Jesus Christ!

[WoolSIlkCotton]

The 5WPR guy who is writing this must not be Jewish, and momentarily forgot his audience here is all Jewish.
Sort of like the Brooklyn politician who told a group of Jewish residents that, if elected, he would "bring home the bacon".

[rebitzman]

>>On #6 I am sad to say you are misinformed.>>

Really?

Then why after bringing in a few hundred folks from Texas, Chicago, Somalia (and apparently the Marshall Islands - among other locations)are you (by your own admission) somewhere over 50% in poultry production - and still way behind in beef (and we haven't even begun to discuss lamb or veal)?

You yourself have openly groused about workers coming in for short stints - then skipping out without replaying loans. That alone seems to support what I'm saying - not support the idea that I'm misinformed.

++On #9 I assume you either misunderstood something, or are misinformed. I saw invoices of donations with my own eyes.++

So....you are suggesting the priest is lying?

Someone is.

Perhaps you could post a pdf of the dated invoices of donations (invoice?) and clear this up?

[Getzel Rubashkin]

We are over %50 output on both. There is a learning curve. A second shift of poultry which is starting should bring us back to %100 in a relatively short time. The turnover rate is actually very low, contrary to what you are saying.

I did not "grouse" about workers working short stints. The story you are referring to is a particular instance where a worker who was portrayed in the press as exploited not only turned out to be one-sided reporting, but the guy got his deposit back from the rental and left town without repaying a $50 cash loan the rental company gave him.

About the food bank, don't play the clergy card, especially not on a blog that considers all clergy suspect, or is that only Jewish clergy?

I have seen invoices documenting product released as a donation, and I don't think the priests claimed that no donations were made, which is why I said you perhaps misunderstood. Unless they did say we never sent food in which case, yes, they lied.

[Shmarya]

So release pdfs of those food shelf donations, Getzel.

We can see if they compare to what the food shelf people say.

[rebitzman]

++About the food bank, don't play the clergy card, especially not on a blog that considers all clergy suspect, or is that only Jewish clergy++

Not me - I tend to give them all the benefit of the doubt.

++and I don't think the priests claimed that no donations were made++

That citation was given - suspect Shamarya will be along shortly to repost it.

Again - post a pdf - clear this up (and for the record - I am not singling you out for "proof" and have challenged Shamarya to do the same on another issue).

[Getzel Rubashkin]

I will find out if it is possible to get one out there. I saw two recent invoices, each for over 100 lbs, I don't remember the exact counts.

[WoolSIlkCotton]

Hey Getzel, here's another Chabad website you should study for your family:
http://jewsinprison.org/

I'm sure the meat that was 'donated' to the food bank was first-quality merchandise, well worth whatever amount the mysterious invoice will state.

[?]

Getzel,

I would like to ask you some private questions. Is there a way for that?

[state of the Jews]

As I noted earlier, there were three "donations" of meat products from Agriprocessor. The first was from Shalom, who showed up at St. Bridget's immediately after the raid while the church served as a sanctury for workers. Shalom brought meat that could be used to feed the refugees from Agri.
The second came after Father Ouderkirk and the lay priest Paul Real went to the plant and asked. The Church arranged for a truck to come to the plant and pick up 30 boxes of meat. Agri had to be asked - taking resposnsibility to help their employees wasn't exactly the first thing on their mind.
The last "donation" occured a few days prior to the Immigration Reform Rally. It was hardly a donation. An employee of Rubashkin went around to Nevel apartments distributing boxes of product - with a request: that they not take part in the rally.

[Shmarya]

The first was from Shalom, who showed up at St. Bridget's immediately after the raid while the church served as a sanctury for workers.

That is the Sholom Mordechai Rubashkin who was my friend so long ago.

It's almost like there are two of him – one whose first thought is to make sure people have food and are safe, and the other who exploits them.

[Archie Bunker]

"the argument is inconsistent and self-contradictory"

Getzel is describing his own "argument" without realizing it.

KAJ's official letter for public consumption made no mention of kashrus. The secret letter addressed to Getzel's grandfather told him he was being dumped for kashrus related problems. The secret letter was later leaked, presumably by a KAJ insider disgusted with the cover up.

[Archie Bunker]

Nothing we say will make a dent on Getzel on though. The KAJ issue has come up before and he keeps arguing as if no facts have been presented that pull the rug out from under him.

[?]

how does state of the jews know about the donations? Does he work for Agri

[Anonymous]

Anonymous: Or, choice 3, which is allow for the systems we have in this country to ascertain facts before you crucify someone. I didn't mean to complicate things for you.

Comparing yourself and your family to Jesus?

Hmmmm. Wonder what the Rebbe would say about that?

As for me, I've just turned my back on your products.

Your attitude convinces me you couldn't give a shit.

There are other sources of beef and chicken.

None of them have your family name on them.

See your family on Court TV.

[Archie Bunker]

I don't expect those weaklings from YCT to produce any results but have any newspapers reported on the Uri Lezedek visit to Agri a few days ago?

[rebitzman]

++but have any newspapers reported on the Uri Lezedek visit to Agri a few days ago?++

Been looking - haven't seen anything.

Yet.

[Isa]

Mr Rubashkin:
Most people here don't think too much of you...
Show them that you are caring sort of guy...
There is that story about a new hire who been getting stiffed $100.00 a week for a 10 man dormitory house. This new hire says his contract says he should only be paying $60.00 a week for housing.
FIX IT!!

[steve]

Getzel,

You've been spinning your wheels here for three weeks now. Had you taken my advice from the first day and started working on the list I had presented to you, there would be no need for any more posts from Shmarya or your verbose comments. This whole scandal and tragic episode in our people's history beezras hashem should come to an end soon and may the Jewish people be zoche to eat food that is not only kosher but also produced in the proper way.

Getzel,
As mentioned in my previous post, I recognize that you are the real 'Getzel Rubashkin'. I know that you and your family read this blog, and are sensitive to the criticisms expressed herein. Instead of dwelling on the past issues that can not be changed and will be up to the feds to investigate, please respond to the following questions/comments on the current state of your Agriprocessor's activities.
1)On the rabbi's visit video, the most disturbing part of the video (to me) was the workers saying that they only had two 15 minute breaks and a lunch break in a 12 hour shift. Please explain Agriprocessor's policy towards bathroom breaks, when employees need to go to the bathroom. Please explain the laws about permissable bathroom breaks (there must be some for the food industry). While I could see a normal, healthy person not needing to go to the bathroom for four hours, I could see many situations where this is physically impossible for a given person at a given point in time.

2)One of your contractors is being accused of shorting workers over $150 per month, in an apparent breach of contract. What does Pirke Avot say about shorting worker's wages? I know that in my industry (software), we would not tolerate this from a contractor. What concrete action is Agriprocessors taking to resolve this issue (I can not believe that this is an isolated case as I assume the rent contracts and processing of payrolls are somewhat standard for the contracted workers)? I believe that you (Getzel) have the power to talk to people in Agriprocessors to effect a resolution to this, for the sake of the well-being of your workers. Please keep this blog updated on your efforts to resolve this issue. If you put your time into accomplishing that, you will gain some of my respect!

Jerome

[Archie Bunker]

Getzel, the non-spokesman spokesman strikes again in a different AP dispatch.

http://money.aol.com/news/articles/_a/bbdp/kosher-meatpacker-struggles-after/136813?cid=5

Outside several rooms in the plant, doorways bear mezuzahs, small cases containing Hebrew verses from the Torah.
"You see it and you are reminded of your commitment to do good," said Getzel Rubashkin, a plant employee and grandson of the plant's owner.

(Hey Getzel, does the Torah also speak of lots of other things like oshek and that neveilos should be thrown to the dogs?)

Rubashkin said he believed the plant could recover but that it needed to burnish its image.
"We don't have much of a PR arm," he said.

(Striking endorsement of 5W & Lubicom there)

Earlier this month, a group of rabbis toured the plant and spoke to workers about their conditions. They left satisfied that the plant was safe and properly treating its kosher food, said Rabbi Dovid Eliezrie, a California rabbi sympathetic to the Rubashkin family.

Plant manager Abrahams said such openness is now part of the company's strategy, and workers are focused on day-to-day operations, not the plant's notoriety.

("Openness" like Pesach Lerner telling independent rabbis that the visit is closed to anyone not handpicked by him & Lubinsky)

[Avi]

http://www.crownheights.info/index.php?itemid=3255

[Archie Bunker]

That article is a farce.

CrownHeights.info is a Moishe Rubashkin organ.

The Crown Heights beis din is also a Rubashkin organ that was hijacked by Moishe Rubashkin.

Rabbi Osdaba is a Moishe Rubashkin lackey who has a number of sons on the payroll of Rubashkin entities including Agri.

The comment smearing Rav Schwei is typical. Rav Schwei was kicked off the beis din by Moishe Rubashkin's corrupt power brokers to solidify their power by eliminating anyone who is an independent thinker and not tainted by bribery.

[Archie Bunker]

Anyone notice that Larry Gordon is still headfirst into the Rubashkin cover up in the latest edition of the 5 Towns Jewish Times?

[Archie Bunker]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ap-ia-postvillesupervis,0,1076516.story

Stalling tactics a la Rubashkin

[Archie Bunker]

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/world/story.html?id=726632

Since the raid, St. Bridget's, with a staff of four, has raised $500,000 to pay for rent, clothing, food and other necessities of life. Donations have come from other faith groups and individuals who have read about the raid.

(Does this include the few pieces of rotten meat donated by Rubashkin?)

The company said that since the raid, it has voluntarily gone to a more sophisticated electronic system to verify the documents of workers. It also said it was waiving rent for women living in company-owned apartments and making regular food contributions.

(Waiving rent???)

Aaron Goldsmith ... calls what the government did the height of hypocrisy. "They arbitrarily enforce a law when it's a well-known truth that there are millions of illegal workers. They could step into Los Angeles tomorrow and pick up a million people."

He said the raid looked like something out of the war in Afghanistan, with helicopters circling above. He does not understand why the government could not have sat down with the plant and tried to work something out.

(Idiotic comments)

[rebitzman]

++That article is a farce.

CrownHeights.info is a Moishe Rubashkin organ.++

Not entirely sure you can legitimately draw that conclusion - but one CAN note that there isn't a single non-Jew shown in ANY of the dozen or so pictures posted (even in places you would rather expect to see a few).

One can also legitimately note that the report does not go beyond the process, and in no way shape or form addresses a single issue as to the legal issues facing Rubashkin in Iowa.

I know you disagree - but the issue of whether or not they are killing animals properly (the PETA video not withstanding) is not high on my own personal worries about Rubashkins.

[rebitzman]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ap-ia-postvillesupervis,0,1076516.story

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/world/story.html?id=726632

Archie - thanks.

[Archie Bunker]

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/s_583224.html

So far, only two company managers have been charged in the May immigration arrests of 389 workers. Both are accused of aiding the use of fraudulent IDs, and one, Juan Guerrero-Espinoza, of aiding and abetting identity theft.

But court papers examined show evidence that an unidentified human-resources employee actually helped distribute false green cards to workers. Of the 96 fake ones found in that department, about a dozen had pictures of plant employees with other people's names.

The scam appears to work like this: Companies rely on a mid-level manager to create bogus documents to satisfy the government. When there's a raid, they claim ignorance and let the underling take the fall.

[Maverick]

Dear Getzel,
While I would not presume to be an authority on the impartiality of someone who I do not know, the present condition of Agriprocessors and the Rubashkin family make it very much in your interest to take up as bigoted a position as possible in your comments, to be aided in the writing of said comments, and to put forth a great deal of effort in commenting as much as possible.

In the interest of showing that I am attempting to post this comment with as little partiality as possible bigotry, I am going to disclose that I deem the risks involved in eating Agriproccesor meat to consume it myself. These risks include, but are not limited to, health risks from handling of meat that does not meet USDA standards, and the risk that the meat may not in fact be kosher, as it would be imprudent to trust your family's company to not cheat on something that is virtually impossible to detect (if a schita was done properly) if they are cheating on things much easier to detect (ex. the use of illegal workers and the abuse of workers).

One question I would like you to answer Getzel: how can Agriproccesors label almost all of its meat products glatt kosher when the vast majority of cattle do not meet the halachic requirments of glatt kosher?

[WoolSilkCotton]

Wasn't there a third manager the authorities wanted to arrest, but he has fled to Israel?
I assume he is not Hispanic. Anyone know his name?

[Archie Bunker]

The manager who fled Postville is a Palestinian Arab.

[state of the Jews]

His names is Hasom Amara.

I assume his first name is a variation of "Hassam" and the last name a variation of Amarah.

He and his brother Mohamed worked at Agri. Mohamed left 6-8 months ago. Hasom fled after the raid. Some folks in town claim to have been in touch w Hasom in Israel.

[Archie Bunker]

http://iowaindependent.com/3104/rotating-door-at-agriprocessors-keeps-spinning

paul
Comment posted July 30, 2008 @ 4:33 pm
i am an ex-employee of agri. first thing is this person getzel rubashkin is lying. labor ready pulled every one out. the only way they could have stayed is if they were directly hired by agri. i worked with somone that worked for labor ready and he got pulled out with everyone. he was hired back with the new staffing company jacobson. there is no such thing as 100 dollar a week rent. i worked with three guys they were paying upwards of 900 a month for an apartment. they all lived in the same apartment but were all paying diffrent rent. does that make sense to anyone? another person started the week before last and he was supposed to be paying 225 for his rent and they took his whole check and left him with nothing. they are not giving these people food, transportation or anything. and as far as the training gos it is true. the day you walk in there to start work your supervisor will come up to you take you where they want you to work and give you two seconds of training and walk away. then when your not doing it right or fast enough you get in trouble.

Getzel Rubashkin
Comment posted July 30, 2008 @ 5:28 pm
I did not say I am not related to the owners, I said I am not speaking for them.
Employees from Labor-Ready chose to take direct employment from Agri and remain on the job.
The rental options available in town (GAL’s rates) are 225 for individual, market value for a full house or apartment, usually starting at around 500, and there IS a staffing company that rented houses from GAL and sub-rents to its employees for $100 a week and also provides transportation, food and clothing.
Training to cut off a wing or to place a chicken in a tray is not a week-long endeavor. Being shown a few times is enough, in my experience. That’s why I asked what Mr. Nur’s job was.

paul
Comment posted July 31, 2008 @ 11:23 am
your full of sh#t. your a liar just like the rest of your family. there is no place in iowa the going rate for an apartment is 900 a month. no one is paying 100 a week! try more like 267 to 297 a week without food clothes and transportation. there are people starving there. just give up now, no one believes you or your family.

Getzel Rubashkin
Comment posted July 31, 2008 @ 5:07 pm
Oh… details are changing… how many people are there? Are they paying utilities? Are they receiving other services such as cleaning of general areas? Please, if you are going to use your information to holler about criminals etc try to maintain some degree of accuracy and detail.

paul
Comment posted July 31, 2008 @ 11:35 pm
how many people? im talking about three people who live in a three bedroom apartment paying from 267 to 297 each,all differnt rent amounts. cleaning of general areas wtf are you talking about? the apartment grounds? no one cleans the apartment for them. and now why did you suddenly drop the food,clothing and trasportation? no they dont pay utilities but in what part of the united states do utilities cost 500 dollars a month? answer me that? and can you point out a detail that has changed? im going to have to end this conversation with you because you and your family are assumed criminals and i dont know what will happen if you find out my identity.

[Archie Bunker]

Brilliant.

http://westlibertyindex.com/article.php?viewID=1877

“This raid shut down the entire town,” he said. “They locked the school down and put all the Hispanic kids in the gym, according to Mayor Penrod. He said it was to tell them what was going on, which incited panic among the kids.

[Jerome Soller]

Shmarya,
One other post for tonight. When I read your other post about the contractual promise of $60 / week being implemented as $100 / week, I was furious and wrote my earlier post. Anyway, Shmarya, can you substantiate that? Right now, from the perspective of a reader, it is still "he said, she said." Was it a written contract or an oral promise. Obviously, breaking either is unethical. I am throwing this out to Shmarya and Getzel. I assume that Agriprocessors owns the rental property in question. Is that true? Was OneForce authorized to offer $60/week after the first week? If not, what is Agriprocessors doing to resolve this breach of what was promised? What does the standard contract say? Can anyone get a copy of the contract that says either $100/month for subsequent months or $60/month for subsequent months (names and specifics blackened out). If the written contract actually says $60/month, my earlier p'd off post applies.

Jerome

[yidandahalf]

WoolSilkCotton @11:07 wonders what meat the rubash-ins will be served in prison. I have wondered this myself. IMHO it looks like the Aleph Institute may have this covered. Looking as the latest shill for BigChabad and Agri, making sure all the obscure Jews in prison have the opportunity to keep kosher and lay tefillin. Anyone care to investigate this outreach we hear little about? From supplying the locked up yidden it's just one step to opening up a lucrative market, whether the prisons are privatized or state run, this bears a closer look.

Getzel posts that FM suffers from delusions of grandeur. Lubinsky himself said that 5Wankers was hired in part to tackle the vilification and attacks on Agri in the blogs. His quote was printed in the mainstream media which Shmarya posted and you can easily find. At this point in time it is obvious that you are being kept around to waste your time posting corruption and lies to save face. What else can explain your dodging the truth with a stream of never ending semantic juggling.

[Archie Bunker]

http://www.israelenews.com/view.asp?ID=2883

Avi Shafran, in perhaps his most dishonest op-ed yet, launches a vicious attack in the secular press against Rabbi Shmuel Herzfeld.

[Shmarya]

Jerome –

The property is owned by GAL Investments, a company owned by a Chabad friend of the Rubashkins.

As explained several times and confirmed even by Getzel Rubashkin, OneForce leases the homes from GAL.

And it isn't $100 per month. Again, as explained her many, many, many times – it is $100 per week. And Getzel has confirmed this also. So have reporters for various newspapers and news services.

[Archie Bunker]

Have I mentioned before, that Avi Shafran & Pesach Lerner, old friends from Ner Yisroel, often coordinate together? I don't think it's any coincidence that their respective organizations cover up for child molesters when the two of them attended NIRC at a time when budding molesters were running rampant in their dormitory.

[Paul Freedman]

Having been critical of AgriP labor policies I'd like to note that the article, overall, with its emphasis on left-wing multicultural touchie-feelies (cultural PC trumps economic horse sense) is not so indirectly supportive of hiring illegal labor and supports the family by noting how happy the illegals were.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

As an "illiterate" Chassid, it is ironic that I should be the one to point out that crucifixion predated JC by centuries, and use of the word crucify does not constitute a comparison to JC.

Isa: I may know the guy. He was the guy who first told me of that arrangement. I confirmed that arrangement with the staffing rep. Later I met him and he said he was being told he had to stay a month on the $100 a week deal. I spoke to the rep who told me that there they encourage people to get a better deal as soon as they are able and do not require that they stay a month. I have been looking for the guy to follow up, but haven't found him yet.

Jerome: As far as bathroom breaks go, there is no rule forbidding the use of the bathroom between breaks. The worker needs to OK it with the foreman or supervisor. It is possible that a foreman will ask a worker to wait a few minutes.

On the issue of shorted paychecks. If the deductions are legitimate and pre-arranged by the worker, such as a rental arrangement, it is not a shorted paycheck. It is possible that an error would result in an inaccurate paycheck, and there are processes in place to deal with that. I am not sure what you want me to do. Do you have information that tells you that those processes are not being followed or are insufficient?

Archie: I gave that reporter a tour of the plant and specifically told him that he could not quote our conversation. When I pointed out the Mezuzos and explained them, he asked me if he could quote me on that, and I agreed. He paraphrased what I said, and quoted me on the PR thing without permission.

Maverick: I am sorry to inform you that both parts of your question are false. Agri does not label almost all of it's meat products Glatt Kosher. Only about %30 of the meat processed is Glatt after you take out the hindquarters and non-Glatt forequarters. Also, the majority of cattle do not meet Glatt standards, but to say the "vast majority" do not is false.

[Archie Bunker]

Getzel, I have never heard of ANY workplace where workers need permission to go to the bathroom, unless perhaps an individual has abused it.

Do you care to explain this huge shortcoming in kovod habriyos?

[Getzel Rubashkin]

Jerome: Rereading your comment I see you are talking about the OneForce rental deal. As I said earlier, I received assurances from the rep that the workers could leave at any time, and I am trying to find the guy who was having a hard time. If they would come to the management instead of the press, it would be easier to deal with.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

Archie, I would invite you to visit a production or assembly line, where the line would stop if any positions or tasks are unmanned. I believe your comment comes from ignorance.

I also fail to understand the breach in Kovod HaBriyos caused by notifying a superior that you will be leaving your position subject to his approval.

@The guy who wanted to ask a private question: my email address is fardak@gmail.

[Archie Bunker]

"Only about %30 of the meat processed is Glatt after you take out the hindquarters and non-Glatt forequarters."

That is still a huge amount when counting Iowa's Best and/or and downers and other wasted cattle.

People with a better handle on the workings of the plant like Rabbi Shain have stated that Rubashkin's glatt output is way above anyone else's which is why they smell a rat.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

Actually, I hear Alle's percentages have historically been higher. And here is another example of unsubstantiated allegations. Just keep count.

[Archie Bunker]

I am not familiar with assembly lines. Maybe someone else here who is can fill us in on whether there are supposed to be back up workers to temporarily take the place of someone who needs to step aside for a few moments.

As far as the kovod habriyos (human dignity) issue, I don't think I need to explain it if grown men are wetting their pants because they are denied a basic necessity by management.

[Archie Bunker]

"I hear Alle's percentages have historically been higher"

Can YOU prove that or is it an "unsubstantiated allegation" on YOUR part?

[Getzel Rubashkin]

I did not make an allegation. You are the one who insinuated the something unKosher was going on, and tied it to the percentages.

I know that nothing of the sort is going on, and simply point out that I have been told that Alle's percentages are higher. Anyone in the meat business knows that Glatt percentages are not a science and depending on the quality of the cattle and the growing practices etc. as well as the proficiency of the bodek the percentages will vary.

I made no allegation against Alle. You did, against Agri.

About the Kovod HaBriyos, if the story you mention did happen it is the exception rather than the rule, and a result of a poor judgment call by a supervisor, one which, if done with awareness of the situation, calls for disciplining. Workers often leave the line subject to the supervisor's go-ahead.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

Incidentally, there is a Gemara that says "Rov Behaimos Kshairos." I have not seen it inside, but I have heard it quoted.

I believe you cannot argue that that is referring to nonGlatt, because if it is an objective fact that most animals are not Glatt, and the Bais Yosef holds that that there is no such thing as non-Glatt Kosher, this Gemara would be a clear Stira to his position.

Of course, as I mentioned, Glatt percentages are not an objective fact, they are dependent on a number of variables and as such, I would never accuse a company of being Machil Nevailos simply because of high percentages.

Just a thought.

[state of the Jews]

Most meat processing lines require a worker to ask permission for a bathroom break so as not to disrupt or slow processing. A supervisor/foreman will usually sub in for the worker him/her self until the worker returns. Occasionally there will be what we used to call in Israel a "p'cock" someone who knows all the positions and work on the line and can fill in whenever necessary for such things as bathroom breaks. This however is rare and it is usually the supervisor/foreman who fulfills this role.

All of this assumes a supervisor is present. It is not unusual for a supervisor to be in a different part of the plant for for legitimate or illegitimate reasons, when a worker has to take a "hafsakat lachatz" or pressure break, and it is not unusual (so I've been told by workers) at Agri for a supervisor not to have a back-up for himself, thus creating a conflict situation for the worker. If the worker takes such a break and the supervisor deems it as having been unnecessary or disruptive, the worker can be fired. I have met former Agri workers fired for taking an "unauthorized" bathroom break.

[Archie Bunker]

So Rubashkin may have forced situations then of workers relieving themselves ON the assembly line. Someone should tip off the USDA inspectors to this.

[WoolSIlkCotton]

Oh what a tangled web we weave...
Wouldn't all this have been avoidable if the Rubashkin Crime Family has hired legal workers, paid them a wage with benefits on par with unionized workers in similar jobs elsewhere, not tried to screw workers with sleazy housing schemes, not treated their workers like human garbage, not torn open the throats of improperly schechted animals that were still alive, not polluted the local water system there, not run a crystal meth lab, and not tried to cover it all up with lie upon brazen lie?
It sounds like a Dayenu-type song.

Surely, when all the penalties, fines and prison terms are assessed, the extra monies spend trying to import more cheap labor from far away, plus the legal and spin doctor bills, and the intangible cost of the international Chillul Hashem, was this really worth it to the Rubashkins? Being the sociopaths that they are, I'm sure they will shrug it off as the cost of doing business the Rubashkin way.

I'll bet even the Gotti family are shaking their heads when they read what is going on.

[Archie Bunker]

"Incidentally, there is a Gemara that says "Rov Behaimos Kshairos."

The Sridei Aish in the teshuvos (Yoreh Dayeh, siman 4, nisfach 3, michtav 23) says this only true of stam beheimos. But when there are reyusos and other chashoshos to suspect the beheimos are treif, it does not apply.

You can see where I going with this in relation to Rubashkin.

[Jerome Soller]

Hi,
In one part of my previous email, I said accidentally said $100/month, but in the main part I correctly said $100/week. However, the main part of my question was not answered by anyone (Shmarya or Getzel). You have an employee that claims that he is shorted on pay (by having extra rent removed) and that he has a contract for $60/week rent. It is there any way to
a)substantiate that there actually is a contract that says $60/week for rental (or do all of the contracts read $100/week),
b)help this person with the risk of retaliation, if the contract actually read $60/week.
I find it difficult to imagine, if this issues exists, that it is isolated. Either there is a written contract which says $60/week or the employee was mislead orally by OneForce. If the written contract is resolved, would the Agriprocessor Jim Martin or some neutral party be able to guarantee this person anonymity to get the problem resolved? If the employee was mislead, surely Agri could insist to OneForce that this practice stop.

Jerome

[Getzel Rubashkin]

Jerome, this arrangement was described to me by a OneForce employee. I was also told that a number of employees did, in fact, transfer out of the OneForce housing mid-month. Subsequently, I met the employee who originally told me about it in the plant, and when I asked him how he was doing, he told me he was being told he had to stay the month.

I approached the OneForce rep about this and was told that the employees are able to move out, and are encouraged to do so. I did not ask about that specific worker. I have not yet found the guy to discuss it further.

Archie, I was simply quoting that Gemara to illustrate that the "vast majority" are not necessarily non-Glatt.

[Maverick]

Glatt has nothing to do with the cut of the meat. In order for an animal to be "glatt" kosher, the lungs of the animal must fulfill certain requirements (only 20-25% of cows are glatt kosher) If you believe that 75% is not a vast majority, you are lending credence to the claims that you have a limited education.

Also, posts from associates of Agriprocessors have a chazakah of not being unbiased and truthful (I refer to the 5WPR incidents). I am not accusing you Mr. Rubashkin, I am simply offering further proof that if one objectively and logically asses the situation, your posts must be taken with a mound of salt.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

++(only 20-25% of cows are glatt kosher)++

That is false, as anyone with any degree of experience will readily tell you.

[Maverick]

Thats funny, I was told that only about 1 in 5 cows are kosher by an experienced shochet. And I suppose you consider yourself to be an expert on glatt kosher, you who thought glatt referred to the cut of the meat ("Only about %30 of the meat processed is Glatt after you take out the hindquarters and non-Glatt forequarters. Also, the majority of cattle do not meet Glatt standards, but to say the "vast majority" do not is false.")

[Shmarya]

A good herd is usually about 65% glatt, from what I've seen.

The idea that only 20% to 25% of cattle are glatt is nothing I've ever heard of or seen.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

Your desperation to prove me wrong does not make me a moron.

The discussion was concerning how much product was shipped as Glatt. The percentage of animals which are Glatt will not correspond directly to the product shipped, as only the Glatt forequarters will be shipped as Glatt meat. That is where the %30 came from.

Every healthy animal is born Glatt. The conditions under which it is raised effects the percentage which will remain Glatt at the time of Shchita.

What is the name of this experienced Shochet of yours? I don't believe anyone with any experience would make the statement you made.

[Jerome Soller]

Shmarya and Getzel,
Neither of you have answered my questions. Again, restating them again in a more precise form.

Shmarya:
Did the employee say that they had a written contract that said $60/week rent after the first week? If so, did you see this contract, can you see this contract, or is it third-hand? If not, what it an oral promise?

Getzel:
Getzel makes some points about when they leave the bed rental, in his previous note. This may be relevant to other abuses or at a minimum sources of confusion for the workers, but this issue of $60 vs. $100 per month should be straightforward. What does the standard OneForce contract say for subsequent months (e.g., $60/week or $100/week)? If the OneForce contract says $100/week and they were telling workers $60/week before they moved to Iowa, it is a gross misrepresentation (fraudulent way to have people relocate and uproot their families). This is independent of whether they can switch the housing later or not. As the company that contracts OneForce, you would have a moral responsibility that your contractors don't breach their contracts with people working at your site or hire workers through misrepresenting the terms of their employment. Here is an analogy (hypothetical):
Let's say that a business was hiring someone that lived in Brooklyn (my fond memories of Brooklyn include my orthodox grandparents' small apartment that always smelled like mothballs) or Pottsville to move west to Salt Lake City, San Francisco, or Seattle (definitely a move to a better location :) ). We orally and or writing promised to cover their relocation expenses. After they got to Salt Lake City, sold their house, and relocated their family, I then turned around and said there was a misunderstanding and would not cover their relocation costs. However, in my infinite graciousness, I would still let them have their new job and would even help them recover from the money they lost in relocation by finding an apartment in a rundown area. Other than legal action, they would have two choices at that point: move back to New York City (G-d forbid) or start the job and eat the cost of the relocation. If OneForce lied or breached a contract about $60/week rent, there is no excuse and their workers suffered for it, regardless of whether they eventually switched apartments at a later time.

Jerome

[Jerome Soller]

In the last message, I said per month again. I mean per week.

Jerome

[Shmarya]

What I reported has been reported over and over and over again by the AP, Des Moines Register, WCF Courier, erc., yet you act as if this new hire – and me – are making it up.

Does it not occur to you that these employees are taking a considerable risk going public?

If you do not want to believe multiple media reports, don't believe them.

As for a copy of his contract and the worth of oral promises, I think the answer to that is evident.

[Jerome Soller]

Shmarya,
No, I am not acting as if you made it up. I realize that these employees are taking a considerable risk going public, which is something that I previously addressed in my note and Getzel did not acknowledge in his simplistic response (just go to management). Of course, barring a class action lawsuit, an investigation by the Department of Labor, or Agri auditing their contractor, I am not sure that you or anyone has proposed a solution to force resolution of this issue, without exposing an individual employee to retaliation. However, in about five responses, you still did not answer whether there was a written contract or an oral promise, and whether to your knowledge that their standard written contract that said $60/week or $100/week.

Jerome

[Shmarya]

They were promised $100 first week and $60 thereafter.

They got to Postville and were stuck with $100 per week, ad infinitum.

In most cases, the contracts are oral.

[state of the Jews]

Jerome:
One problem in answering your question is that a great many of these recruits are illiterate in English (most of the Latino employees were illiterate in both Spanish and English) and thus don't really understand what they are signing. I suspect that is the case with the Somali workers as well.
Most of these problems, for example unauthorized deductions for rent and "loans" only surface after workers receive their first paychecks and are shocked to see they have no money. Rather then deducting money over time, all deductions are up front - just in case the recruit doesn't work out.
The Postville Food Pantry used to feed 30 or so people a week. Now they feed well over 100.
A new grocery store has opened on Lawler at Tilden St. in Postville where GAL Investments used to have offices. The "Peace Grocery" was opened by Somalis to cater to the Somali community.

Getzel - Lubinsky says you now have health insurance for your workers. Is that insurance immediate upon arrival at the plant? Is it through OneForce? Who is the insurance carrier? Is family coverage an option? If so is it affordable? Just curious.

[Jerome Soller]

Shmarya and "State of the Jews",
Thank you for feedback. I thought as such, but did not want to assume things without hearing it more precisely from people that were closer to the situation.

Getzel, given what they have described, what is Agriprocessors doing to eliminate this problem now and in the future? What is Agri doing to work with OneForce to guarantee that employees received rent rates that they were orally promised, and that false promises are not made by OneForce representatives? This issue has been discussed for a while. What concrete steps have Agriprocessors and OneForce taken to eliminate this issue, now and in the future? There are NO EXCUSES for Agri to tolerate its contractors not behaving in an ethical fashion! In summary, you have spent a lot of time writing some interesting content on the details of Kashrut, but what specific actions has your organization done to respond to this specific issue?

Best wishes,

Jerome

[state of the Jews]

Jerome:

It is a common business practice for large corporations to put an intermediary between themselves and a dicey situation so they can say, "Its not us who caused this problem, its this company we farmed out to - its there responsibility. Take your objections up with them."

That's probably why Agri hired Jacobson, OneForce, etc in the first place - to put an additional layer between themselves and potential problems. We know from others on the blogs that Agri had previous relationships with some of these recruiting firms. What's going on now is called the establishment of deniability.

[Getzel Rubashkin]

Jerome,
I agree with you about not tolerating unethical contractors and I advocated canning one on those grounds, which I believe happened.

Allow me to clarify. I believe the $100 a week corresponds to the OneForce housing, and the $60 a week corresponds to the GAL rental arrangement.

The agreement with the workers was that they could move off the OF deal and onto the GAL deal as soon as they had the money, which they were told should be by the second week. This is the agreement described to me by multiple workers, and that is what I was sharing in response to your question.

I came back to the plant last night during the second shift to speak to some of the employees I had originally spoken to, and he expressed some concerns. I gave him my cellphone number and hopefully I will hear from him today, and will be able to resolve the issue.

SOJ: I do not know details of the insurance setup. I suggest you call Jacobson, as they are currently handling that area.

[Shmarya]

Allow me to clarify. I believe the $100 a week corresponds to the OneForce housing, and the $60 a week corresponds to the GAL rental arrangement.

The agreement with the workers was that they could move off the OF deal and onto the GAL deal as soon as they had the money, which they were told should be by the second week. This is the agreement described to me by multiple workers, and that is what I was sharing in response to your question.

This is not what workers are tell the press and St. Bridget's.

$100 week one, $60 every week thereafter is what OneForce promised them. Nothing was said about moving after week one to another "dorm" to get a cheaper rent.

SOJ: I do not know details of the insurance setup. I suggest you call Jacobson, as they are currently handling that area.

How can Jacobson be handling the insurance for all Agri employees?

Do they "handle it" for OneForce? For people hired directly by Agri HR? For existing Agri workers?

[Getzel Rubashkin]

Shmarya, I am telling you what I was told by six individual OneForce employees on the porch of their house. It is a setup the OF rep confirmed.

Jacobson is hiring Agri's workforce. They are the ones handling insurance. I don't believe anyone is being hired by Agri HR at this point.

[reader]

Mmmmm empire chicken.... yummy.

[Yochanan Lavie]

What else can explain your dodging the truth with a stream of never ending semantic juggling.

Posted by: yidandahalf | August 18, 2008 at 04:44 AM

What are? Anti-semantic? (LOL).