"Conservative and Reform Movements Despicable, Ludicrous, Spoofs On Kashrus"

VosIzNeias, the hasidic "news blog" that bills itself as "The Voice of the Orthodox Jewish Community," is at it again, attacking…

…the Reform and Conservative Movements for "despicable, ludicrous, spoofs on kashrus."

Conservative and Reform Movements Despicable, Ludicrous, Spoofs On Kashrus

New York - When the Conservative and Reform movements weighed in on the recent federal raid on Agriprocessors in Postville IA, it raised a fundamental question of what connection they have with kashrus.

Only a small number of Conservative and virtually no Reform Jews observe kashrus, at least not the kashrus that is in accordance with Torah and halacha. So when the Rabbinical Assembly and United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism issued an advisory to its members and constituents asking them to evaluate whether it is appropriate to consume Rubashkin products, who exactly were they talking to?

True, that there are many Conservative Jews who buy kosher products because it is so widely available and perhaps they sometimes think about their Jewishness, but it certainly has no connection to the Conservative movement that does not even believe in Torah shebaal peh.

Rabbi Morris Allen of Minneapolis who is the author of a new “tzedek hechsher” that would take into account how animals and workers are treated is himself a vegetarian and manipulating Torah and halacha seems natural for a him as a leader in a movement that has quite a track record of doing so.

They even have the audacity to use the Hebrew words of al pi din, when their ranks are rapidly dwindling and they are directly responsible for an intermarriage rate that has exceeded 50% in the US.

What do they know about Tzedek? Where were they when pioneers like the OU brought kashrus to the masses or when the saintly Satmar Rebbe and many other orthodox rabbis raised the standards of kashrus, including glatt kosher and cholov yisroel? They were most likely eating treife at McDonald’s as most of their members do today because of their misguided leadership.

And going from the ridiculous to the sublime is a suggestion by “Rabbi” Richard Levy, director of the School of Rabbinic Studies at Hebrew Union College-Jewish Institute of Religion in Los Angeles, to create a Reform kosher certification. He says it actually would be more stringent than traditional kosher laws because ethical considerations would be added to existing dietary prohibitions. “I would like to see it as an extension of halachah,” or Jewish law, he says. “It would expand what dietary practice means in a Jewish setting to include a concern for the people who harvest our food, bring it to market and sell it, a concern with the pain of living creatures, which has led people not to eat veal or foie gras, to look for free-range poultry and beef, or more humane methods of slaughter.” Levy thinks such a system could emerge in the next decade. With whom? With the Jews who will no longer be Jewish? Halacha? How ridiculous when they believe that Torah is man-made and has no link to Sinai!

The Conservative and Reform movements are obviously hanging on to straws. They know fully well that they have lost their youth and are on a steady march to oblivion. Their past is checkered with being destructive on kashrus like when Conservative rabbis were instrumental in striking down the 100-year plus kashrus laws that protected kosher consumers in New York State.

They are only too willing to play that role again, to deny even their own innocent constituents the right to eat kosher whenever they want and to cause prices to go even higher which would further squeeze the middle class and poor Jews for whom kashrus is a way of life, not a manipulative tool to perhaps benefit from the largesse of kashrus and to bash their Orthodox co-religionists for whom there is a bright future.

There should be no mistake that our wrath is not against innocent Conservative and Reform Jews who are simply tinokos shenishbu but against the leadership that has made a mockery of Torah and has suddenly discovered kashrus for altruistic and public relations value. It is high time that we tell them that kashrus without Judaism is none of their business even if they think that there are hidden millions to be made.

If they are so concerned about Kashrut why don’t we see any reform conservative owned Kosher plants anywhere?

This is also a good time to remind our progressive thinking Orthodox Jews or as some call them the “modern Orthodox” that they need not be intimated by the politically correct values of the Conservatives and Reform. The reverse should be true: The Conservative and Reform should learn from those who have done so much for yiddishkeit (i.e. NCSY). Taking on an apologetic mode with our co-religionist leadership, many of which are intermarried and whose children and grandchildren no longer function as Jews, is a perverted way of being proud of what we have accomplished. Any gesture of joining them or boycotting our own just to please these rejectionists of authentic Judaism is a disservice to Torah and Yiddishkeit. Yes, we should choose our ‘mechotonim’ wisely but only those that believe in the eternity of Torah as was handed down at Har Sinai, which we celebrated only yesterday!

News Source: VIN News Editorial

This uneducated rant has the fingerprints of Menachem Lubinsky, Rubashkin's paid shill, all over it.

And it should be clear what VIN and Lubinsky are afraid of – Conservative Jews choosing to buy their kosher meat from suppliers not controlled or owned by haredi kosher supervisions.

This bluster is not about kosher – it is about money.

What Lubinsky tries to hide (beside his status as a paid consultant to Rubashkin) is that non-Orthodox Jews buy most of the kosher meat in America. Worse than that, if you factor in the Modern Orthodox, haredim may account for 20 percent of kosher meat sales – at best. Yet haredim control how that meat is produced.

If Modern Orthodoxy ever decided to go it on its own, or if the Conservative Movement and the left wing of MO joined forces in their own hechsher, haredim like Rubashkin and his rabbis will quickly lose their industry dominance.

This is what haredim fear and what Lubinsky works against.

Two other points:

1. Accusing a Conservative rabbi of "manipulating Torah and halacha" is a bit strange when Rubashkin's haredi rabbis allowed a non-Jew wielding a meat hook to rip the throat out of still-conscious cattle less than 10 seconds after the shechita cut.
2. "[T]he saintly Satmar Rebbe and many other orthodox rabbis raised the standards of kashrus, including glatt kosher and cholov yisroel…" What these "saintly" haredi rabbis did on arrival from Europe was to ignore both the customs of Orthodox America and the halakhic decisions of American rabbis and demand standards of kashrut well in excess of halakha. In other words, they inflicted their crap on normal Jews. And it is this that Lubinsky seeks to defend.

Comments

[steve]

Those posts on VIN are almost comical. I can just picture a bunch of fat slob Rubashkin fressers typing "dan l'kaf z'chus, dan l'kaf zchus..blah, blah, blah....pass the salami." How much do you think Rubashkin is paying VIN for these advertisements?

[Anon]

--If Modern Orthodoxy ever decided to go it on its own, or if the Conservative Movement and the left wing of MO joined forces in their own hechsher, haredim like Rubashkin and his rabbis will quickly lose their industry dominance.--

A close aquaintance of mine is in the kosher food business. I asked him whether he would ever consider adding a Conservative or Reform hashgacha to the Orthodox agency that certifies his products. He indicated that while he has no objections in principle, the view within the kosher food industry is that there is very little demand for kosher food within the Conservative movement and virtually none within the Reform movement. So unless the Conservative movement were to decide to fund their certifications internally, virtually no food manufacturer would actually pay for the Conservative hashgacha.

[Anon]

--This uneducated rant has the fingerprints of Menachem Lubinsky, Rubashkin's paid shill, all over it.--

I doubt it. I've seen Lubinsky's work. While he may not be winning any prizes, he can do better than that article. Also, Rubashkin won't be winning any brownie points from that article so even if they agreed they would probably not voice that opinion.

[Shmarya]

Conservative Jews buy the majority of kosher meat in the US.

As for Lubinsky, he's behind it. That doesn't mean he wrote it, however.

[Anon]

--Conservative Jews buy the majority of kosher meat in the US.--

Source?

[Cee]

Anon, you dont need sources to post on this blog just a hatred for orthodox judaism and especially chabad, then you are good to go.

[rebitzman]

++Source?++

Here's one:

Rabbi Avi Shafran (who openly despises Conservative Judaism) concedes that ~30% of them eat only kosher meat. There are between 6-8 times more Conservative Jews in this country than there are Orthodox (depending on whose numbers you choose to believe).

From there - it's simply a matter of math.

[rebitzman]

++Anon, you dont need sources to post on this blog just a hatred for orthodox judaism and especially chabad, then you are good to go.++

One is tempted to read the post at the head of this thread and suggest that perhaps one should scrape the dog poo off one's own foot before complaining about the stench coming from those around them.

[yidandahalf]

Good follow up on the Vin stuff, Shmarya. The Rubishcan camp is circling the wagons. Would like to be a fly on the wall after Shacharit.

[Kishkeman]

Hopefully this article is accurate.

http://jewschool.com/2008/06/11/midwest-jewish-camps-to-serve-non-agriprocessors-meat-this-summer/

[Yochanan Lavie]

It is easier to see the mote in someone else's eye than the beam in one's own eye.

[DK]

"or when the saintly Satmar Rebbe and many other orthodox rabbis raised the standards of kashrus, including glatt kosher and cholov yisroel?"

Who needs that haredi garbage? Glatt and cholov yisroel should be assured by the liberal Jewish community, and it should be explained to liberal Jews why we aren't willing to support such nonsense.

[Dr Fred]

Lavie:The internet will do them in; not so much by what is said against them, but by what these clods say in their own behalf.

[Nigritude Ultramarine]

I read the diatribe on VIN. Here's a thought. Let's assume they are correct and that non-Orthodox are all about fressing at McDonald's. As a consequence they don't have a right to say anything about kashrus?

Actually, I don't think Judaism works like that.

For example, let's say I've been a bit lax about putting on tefillin this week. Does that mean I have no right, as a Jew, to ever say that my fellow Jews need to be more careful about tefillin? Does that mean I can't say that putting on tefillin is important?

Maybe I'm not perfect in my mitzvah observance, but does that me I relinquish the right to say murder is wrong? That abusing employees is wrong?

When did Judaism become an all or nothing proposition?

[Shmarya]

When did Judaism become an all or nothing proposition?

1762.

[yidandahalf]

I realize every Jew outside the haredi fold is as good as in cherem to them. No two ways about it. Their hatred for non-haredi Jews and gentiles is equal and frightening. They don't get it.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Shmarya: Maybe they should change the name of the religion to "All-or-nothing-ism."

[Nigritude Ultramarine]

>1762

I remember learning something from his "science book" in which he stated that a menstruating woman can damage a Sefer Torah with her glance. As a bochur, I asked my yeshiva's mora d'asra if this is even possible. All he could say was, "that's what it says."

Ooookay. Good thing Judaism is not a science.

/Just as an aside, my father's side of family hails from modern day Slovakia, just like him.

[Yochanan Lavie]

a menstruating woman can damage a Sefer Torah with her glance.

Sounds like a comic book villain.

[Rabbi Michael Samuel]

I agree with yidandahalf's comments. It is a pity that the Haredi live with such a sieged mentality reminiscent of "Remember the Alamo." Their political influence in practically every sphere of Israeli life is pathetic. Their hatred of the "Other", to coin a phrase from Levinas, generates ant-Semitic feelings across the Christian world. Their hatred of the non-Orthodox and the Modern Orthodox is equally appalling. I often wondered whether today's Haredi would qualify as Zealots in the Temple era. The answer is painfully obvious.

[SJ]

as far as believing in torat sheball peh is concerned, I think that the vin article has blurred what a rabbinical interpretation is and what actually was given to moses on mount sinai (if one were to believe in the tanach).

waiting hours between dairy and meat and a separation of dairy and meet are post matantorah evolved rules products of rabbinic judaism.

these rules started when the talmud was written (http://hochmaumusar.blogspot.com/2008/05/understanding-judaism-milk-and-meat.html) and not before.

thus the vin article seemed to blur the distinction of oral law and rabbinic interpretation to hold onto its power.

[Dr Fred]

Lavie: Interesting, because R" Riskin , in his JP column of a week or so past, points out that RAMBAM makes it clear that a Torah scroll CANNOT be desecrated. These people are , sadly, Eastern Europe's legacy,( together with cholent. God';s reason for Pepto Bismol).

[Dave]

It's kind of funny, I think a lot of bloggers- including some disillusioned ex-Orthos are probably going to end up Karaites or something similar. In my opinion that would be better than Reform.
At least Karaites believe in Torah mi'Sinai.

[Isaac Balbin]

It's likely that someone who does not keep Kosher, does so because of a lack of Yiras Shomayim which leads them to be either a Mumar L'Teyavon or Mumar Lehachis. I have not articulated the level of Kashrus (be it Glatt/Cholov Yisroel/Bishul Akum/Shrozim/ etc) as those are details and not relevant to my point. There are people who are vegetarians or miltant vegetarians. Again, those people do not automatically eat Kosher food either. They either choose to, or choose not to, based on a definition of Kashrus approved by their Posek/Rabbi.

In my view, it would be mainly a Mumar Lehachis who would be more likely to adopt a neo-kashrus approach --- whether this be Conservative or Reform. I believe these people are in the minority, and the vast majority are simply motivated out of Teyovon. As such, it is unlikely that there would be a swarm of new neo-kosher devotees.

Of course, those who have been buying orthodox kosher meat/food may switch allegiances to a neo-kosher authority. I suspect though that the remaining orthodox kosher authorities will clean up their act (so to speak) and this issue will well and truly disappear within 12 months.

The Internet will have been largely responsible for the clean up, and that is a good thing.

[SJ]

dairy and meat***** tired :|

[SJ]

k that meet thing was one embarassing oversight in my typing cause i'm tired but in response to dave's post the problem with believing in torah shekatuv actually is that there's simply no evidence for its claims about the creation or the exodus.

[A reader]

Why do you constantly try to equate Modern Orthodoxy with reform and conservative judaism?

[A reader]

" I often wondered whether today's Haredi would qualify as Zealots in the Temple era. The answer is painfully obvious."

The zealots would have tried to kill off leftists like today's Israeli "haredim." Granted, the average haredi on the street themselves may have 'rightwing' or conservative views, but the leadership and haredi establishment/political structure is very much leftism in every way possible (as well as the basic theology). I would think Zealots would consider them collaborationists despite their pretensions otherwise.

[A reader]

But I guess the "academic" or self-righteous way to denigrate someone is to call them an "extremist" or "zealot" and if you have a difference of opinion or a resentment, I guess it's forget accuracy, just have at it.

Yes, those 'evil zealots' of the temple period, they are just like ______'s of today that give me so much stress! Relevant and worthwhile a comment to be sure, even if it was true...

[TakesOneToKnowOne]

manipulating Torah and halacha seems natural for a him as a leader in a movement that has quite a track record of doing so.

. . . kind of like the chasidim and charedim.

[VINSpin]

nd going from the ridiculous to the sublime is a suggestion by “Rabbi” Richard Levy, director of the School of Rabbinic Studies at Hebrew Union College-Jewish Institute of Religion in Los Angeles, to create a Reform kosher certification. He says it actually would be more stringent than traditional kosher laws because ethical considerations would be added to existing dietary prohibitions. ... Levy thinks such a system could emerge in the next decade. With whom? With the Jews who will no longer be Jewish? Halacha? How ridiculous when they believe that Torah is man-made and has no link to Sinai!

Of course, this paragraph right here points up the ridiculousness and meaninglessness of VIN's article.

The article praises "pioneers like the OU brought kashrus to the masses or when the saintly Satmar Rebbe and many other orthodox rabbis raised the standards of kashrus, including glatt kosher and cholov yisroel," so the author obviously has no problems with the idea of making kosher certification more restrictive than halacha might call for. So, in theory, the author should have not problem with the concept of the tzedek hashghacha.

Yet, how does the author approach the matter? By attacking the Reform and Conservative movements and the perceived level observance of their members.

If the author was truly serious about the issues brought up in the article, he would have written an article which would have said something along the lines of:

"They have the idea for a tzedek hechher, but they don't follow halacha correctly. So, of what use will such a hechsher be? Therefore, we should spearhead this movement. There's nothing wrong with the aims of the tzedek hechsher, but it's the people leading it who we can't trust to do so competently. Let's show them how truly observant Jews can do it . . . and do it better."

That's how the article would have been written if it had any real, insightful, or constructive thought behind it. As it reads now, however, it's obvious that the author just wanted to write an attack piece on Conservative and Reform Judaism and just used the "kashrut/observance" angle as a jumping off point.

[jewishwhistleblower]

http://www.thejewishstar.com
June 6, 2008 edition

Sexual Abuse Threats minimized

1)
CLARIFICATION
In last week’s In My View column (A call for action; May 30, 2008) by Rachel Marks, the article referred to sexual abuse as a problem “that plagues our community.” The word “plague” does not
represent the view of the author and the message she wished to convey; its inclusion was the result of an editing error. Ms. Marks
believes, as she stated later in the essay, “we must recognize this [sexual abuse] as a problem but, Baruch Hashem, not an epidemic.”
The Jewish Star regrets the error.

2)
Stranger danger in FR
Eighth grader runs from would-be attacker
BY MAYER FERTIG
A quick-thinking eighthgrade
girl escaped from a man
who ordered her into his car by running into the Young Israel of Far Rockaway.
...
When classes resumed Tuesday after the Memorial Day weekend, an administrator went from class to class reminding older students
— those most likely to be
on the streets without an adult — how to react if faced with a similar situation.
One parent of a TAG student
was unhappy that the
school did not send letters
home to alert adults to the
threat.
“I’m disappointed and concerned that the school did not choose to notify parents directly and relied on word of mouth,” he said. “Not being forthright when there are dangers
compounds the problem
because you end up having
rumors fly.”
...

[Yochanan Lavie]

They have the idea for a tzedek hechher, but they don't follow halacha correctly. So, of what use will such a hechsher be? Therefore, we should spearhead this movement. There's nothing wrong with the aims of the tzedek hechsher, but it's the people leading it who we can't trust to do so competently. Let's show them how truly observant Jews can do it . . . and do it better."

VINSpin is correct. I wish people were as machmer about mitzvot bain adam l'chavaro as they are bain adam l'makom.

(NB: I am making an observation, not setting myself up as a paradigm of virtue for either realm).

Dr. Fred: I actually like cholent. Maybe that's why I call Tums "Jewish After-dinner mints" ;)

Dave: I agree that karaism is preferable to extremes of the right and the left. But I don't want to chuck all of the rabbinic tradition, and I think parts of the tanach are allegorical.

A reader is correct about chareidism being in some ways liberal. They believe in gov't handouts, gov't intrusion into private life (the rabbanut), gov't monopolies (again, the rabbanut), and even go along with the "Peace Process" when it serves them. Apart from the "chardal" element, SOME of them would acquiesce to being dhimmis under Islamo-Palestinean rule if it meant more money for them.

[jewishwhistleblower]

Discussion regarding inclusion of Rabbi Mordecai Tendler on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mordecai_Tendler

[steve]

They have the idea for a tzedek hechher, but they don't follow halacha correctly. So, of what use will such a hechsher be? Therefore, we should spearhead this movement

Spot on, YL! It shows to what level we have sunk that we need to take mussar from the Conservative and Reform movements. When rabbis and kashrus agencies are blinded by money and the public is blinded by their gluttonous desires, sometimes it pays to listen to advice from outsiders who have no bias one way or the other. True, most of Conservative and Reform Jews do not adhere to the strictest levels of kashrus. However, that does not impair their judgment in this case. It is the Rubashkin fressers, Weissmandel and the OU that has their judgment impaired because of ulterior motives. It's about time that some moral standards are adhered to before kashrus "supervision" is granted. It's about time that some type of kashrus standard is adhered to before logos are affixed on packages. It's about time that we cleaned up this mess.

[Yosef ben Matitya]

the truth is that those clowns (those frozen in time when not regressing) are not jews at all.
what is the difference between shcheetat nokhri and theirs?
any cent spent to benefit of these minim, is like a qorban to avoda zoreh!
A penny to Rubashkin = Etnan Zonah ; while a penny to Vos Nieas = mechir kelev!

[Yosef ben Matitya]

SOME of them would acquiesce to being dhimmis under Islamo-Palestinean rule if it meant more money for them.
It's not the money YL.
Not everything is money.
That would be the easy way out for explaining it.
There is more to it, yedidi.

[Yosef ben Matitya]

YL
i am digressing a bit in following your comments on those who sell out for money, i trust u will find this paper interesting.

http://www.cardozolawreview.com/PastIssues/fischer.website.pdf

[yidandahalf]

F**K all those OU logos and the rest of it. If we think it's treif we shouldn't eat it. Only ka$hru$ can be left to the rabbis because they know trief, oh yes they do. They would put a hechsher on a turd if they got paid. Enough of the corrupt hechsher sellers who have hijacked kashrus.

[yidandahalf]

MEANWHILE those sorry mamsers over on VIN are STILL deleting comments. This is how insecure and afraid they are. VIN drones, you are blind and your noses are stuck up the wrong end of the crooked crows.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Steve: I was quoting VINSpin when I spoke of tzedek hechsher. I can't take credit for that quote, although I endorse it.

Yosef: You're right, it's not just the money. Some charedim are "chardal" (chareidi/dati leumi) and some are moderately non-Zionist. I have no problem with them politically. I still can't understand the ANTI- Zionists, however. Like many leftwing diaspora Jews, they worship powerlessness and victimhood. I can't understand how people still villify, 100 years later, the national liberator of the Jewish People, our Washington or Garibaldi. (Granted, he started as an assimilationist, but he was a tinok shenishba). Or curse Ben Yehuda, our Samuel Johnson or Noah Webster, in MODERN HEBREW, no less!

I think self-hating Jews, of the secular far-left or religious far-right, should hop on the next plane to Teheran, where they can revel in their degradation all they want.

[Simon Rose]

The Conservative take on proper attitude towards people and the animals is correct per Torah Halacha.

These so called Orthodox (the Rubashkins & the OU) may know the letter of the Law, actually I doubt it and certainly are clueless about the spirit of the law.

They're highly educated on scams and circumventing the law of the land in order to make money.

[Paul Freedman]

My Conservative brother and his friends and associates maintain kosher households

[Yochanan Lavie]

I know many Conservative Jews who keep kosher. I even know a few who are basically orthoprax, but ideologically Conservative, and prefer an egalitarian davening. The stereotypes don't always hold.

(Stereotypes of Orthos don't always hold either, but the Rubbishcan family is doing its best to incorporate all of them. "Hath not a Mexican eyes...")

[Ted]

Regardless of the Reform and Conservative
movements level of kosher observance,
how does this excuse Agriprocessor's
selling of tainted meet to a Conservative
camp. Unless posioning non-orthodox Jews
is acceptable from Halacha's stand point ?

[rebitzman]

++I know many Conservative Jews who keep kosher. I even know a few who are basically orthoprax, but ideologically Conservative, and prefer an egalitarian davening. The stereotypes don't always hold.++

This entire thread seems to be predicated on the idea that we (Conservative Jewry) actually CARE what the Ultra-Orthodox think of us. I'm not really of the opinion that's the case.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Rebitzman: I wish the Modern Orthodox wouldn't care what the ultras think, either. (Disclosure: I am traditional and daven in both MO and Conservative synagogues). But they have a monopoly on schechita, sofrut, and other things. I think the only Jewish skill not monopolized by them is milah; many MO doctors are also mohelim. As Dave posted elsewhere, we (the non-Ultras) have to break the wierd symbiosis with the chareidi world that despises us.

[Idiot Yeshiva Kid (a joke from SJ)]

Naaa Yochanan you is mistaekin on vat is modern and vat is not, cauz etheics iz not modern cauz it not come from grand rebbe maimon or whatever vat iz modern iz text written by dezert peapel dousands ov yers ago and ve follo dat widout regard to animul rites pepel sae.

[rebitzman]

++But they have a monopoly on schechita, sofrut, and other things.++

And this has to change.

Not sure how - since their folks seem willing to do this utterly crappy job (I HAVE done a kosher kill on my own - once. Have the stich marks to prove it, and have NO interest in doing it again) and we want our kids to be Dr's, lawyers and Accountants.

[tookus boy]

With all do respect to the frumkes, I think someone needs to expose how some "kashrut" associations are nothing more than excuses for the Rabbi's son-in-law to take in a cut of the profits every-time some poor schmo decides to open a Kosher restaurant... That's what it is... you open the shop, pay the Rabbi's son-in-law to hang out in the kitchen and nosh himself fat... boom... the place is Kosher. Talk about ethics... has anyone looked into the topic of Rabbincal Patronage Scams?

As for a Reform/Conservative hechsher, on the surface, it seems a bit silly... on the other hand, some Conservative Jews do keep Kosher inside the house, and why should they have to donate money to the frumkes every time they decide to have a bagel?

[SJ]

tookus boy is learning. kosher is nothing more than extortion by rabbis.

The hechshers have brainwashed us. Yesterday I got a bottle of Springtime Artesian water out of a friend's fridge. I looked and looked and no hechser. Before I realized it I had begun to think "Why isn't this water kosher, what's wrong with it?" JESUS.

[Isa]

Sarcastically

To 01:10PM:

Before psach, be sure that the hechsher has a P before you buy water

[Nigritude Ultramarine]

That's what it is... you open the shop, pay the Rabbi's son-in-law to hang out in the kitchen and nosh himself fat... boom... the place is Kosher.

And that is why, my wife and I have this fantasy. We are going to open a kosher restaurant one day. It will be totally kosher, but we plan not to accept any hechsher.

[Nigritude Ultramarine]

Yesterday I got a bottle of Springtime Artesian water out of a friend's fridge

And I bet your gasoline doesn't have a hechsher. Oh noes! LOL!

/We need a Rabbi Abadi in the U.S.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Isa: I don't know if this is true, but I heard Bostoner Chasidim set aside barrels of water before Pesach, to be mevatil the chametz traces that may be in the municipal water supply. That is the water they then use for Pesach.

"Idiot Yeshiva Kid" Iz goot u learned goot Inglish!

[yidandahalf]

That was me about the Springtime water. This morning I set out to conduct some business; it was hot so I rolled the windows up and booted up the air. Immediately swarms of fruit flies appeared around the door and windows. I don't know where they came from. BUT THE POINT IS THIS: you could be in the middle of the desert with a week old piece of fruit and there will be fruit flies so HOW CAN ANY FRUIT BE KOSHER because where do the flies come from if not from eggs which must be present on the fruit from the get go. What say the experts about this? They maintain that in modern times we have technology that can detect these tarfus and we are obliged to do so not not eat them. Where do these fruit flies come from SO FAST?

[Yochanan Lavie]

Yid & 1/2: Sadly, some rabbonim will still maintain that they are spontaneously generated- like mud mice and sweat lice.