BREAKING! Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi: Child Abuse A "Ba'al Teshuva" Problem, Real Haredim Don't Abuse Their Children

This, my friends, is what kiruv is really all about:

A Mother In Israel writes:

I heard Rabbi Metzger on the radio (Channel two) Thursday am and he was asked why the haredi press didn't report about the child abuse cases. He said three things:

1) The abuse is a Baal teshuva phenomenon.

2) Anyone growing up with a haredi education wouldn't beat their children, among other reasons because they don't call their teachers by their first names.

3) The charedi press doesn't consider these BTs charedim so they feel no need to report about it.

Metzger is a prick. The man stands accused of fraud, of extortion, of sexual harassment of both females and males – in fact, a panel of senior Rabbinut judges in effect found him guilty of all this before haredim led by Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv brokered Metzger's "election" as chief rabbi.

Yet BTs, Jews who became Orthodox at some point after childhood, are the only child abusers in Orthodoxy?

Metzger should be run out of the Rabbinut, run out of Israel and run out of Judaism.

And so should the evil man who made this incompetent, bigoted boob "chief rabbi."

Comments

the chutzpah knows no bounds!

[mother in israel]

I put up my own post:
http://mominisrael.blogspot.com/2008/04/rabbi-metzger-on-child-abuse.html

[Garnel Ironheart]

You need to change the title on your main page. This guy's National Religious like the Pope's a virile scoundrel.

Is there a link to an audio copy of his remarks?

I'd like to hear this for myself.

It is difficult to believe that these statements could have been made as quoted.

[mother in israel]

My husband and I couldn't believe it either. The IBA's website has past programs, but I couldn't manage to listen on my computer. I would be happy to be proven wrong.
http://www.iba.org.il/media/?recorded=radio14

[formelly frum]

This finally all the questions I had, how could all this stories of misconduct by frum people on this web site be true.

Now I know, either they where not true, or the person was, is a baall Teshuva. Mt heart rest easy now.

Thank you Rabbi Metzger

[mother in israel]

I listened to it again. He said that the parents of the children hospitalized in Jerusalem were not haredi. He also said (twice) that child abuse is not a phenomenon in the charedi community. The abusers were a tiny group of baalei teshuva who were influenced by by sick people.

He did not say that all bts are not haredim, just that these (the ones from Jerusalem) weren't. But I don't know what he would say about Keren, who was clearly in the haredi world.

[mother in israel]

I updated my post accordingly. Actually, I wonder whether the men who advised the mother from Jerusalem (Chen and the rest) were baalei teshuva.

[formelly frum]

"Israel - Rabbi Metzger: I Call On Every Jew To Expel Abusive Rabbis, And Phony Educators From Klal Yisroel"
http://www.blogowogo.com/blog_article.php?aid=1380455&t=10

I wonder these two statement contradict each other

[mother in israel]

In the interview he decried child abuse and said not to listen to any rabbi who recommended it. There's a very positive element to what he said about the haredi community --i.e. that hitting your children and identifying as haredi do not belong together.

[Bartley Kulp]

They treat us baalei t'shuva like we are some Appalachian Hill Billy's with the accompanying music from the movie deliverance. I actually think the oppsite is true.

[Bartley Kulp]

They treat us baalei t'shuva like we are some Appalachian Hill Billy's with the accompanying music from the movie deliverance. I actually think the opposite is true.

[Bartley Kulp]

They treat us baalei t'shuva like we are some Appalachian Hill Billy's with the accompanying music from the movie deliverance. I actually think the opposite is true.

[Xbt]

Charedim do a better job in covering up then bt.

[Neo-Conservaguy]

Not to excuse the chief rabbi or haredim in general for their sins, but some of the super-frum Baal teshuvoth I met have been a little unstable mentally, and many sometimes seem very tense and angry. Of course, I also note that latent anger in many FFB haredim as well, and consider it a symptom of the disease of Frumkeit. Maybe I'm just pissed that it seems these are the type of folks that end up teaching my kids(i.e. screaming at them) in "Modern Orthodox" day schools.

[Anon]

--some of the super-frum Baal teshuvoth I met have been a little unstable mentally, and many sometimes seem very tense and angry.--

I know of a non-frum baal teshuvoth (or more accurately someone who was a baal teshuvah and then reverted back) who is a little unstable mentally and often seems very tense and angry.

[Friar Yid]

I agree- the Haredim don't have a child abuse problem, they have a crazy moron problem. This problem is exacerbated by the fact that the crazy morons on the bottom, like your run-of-the-mill child abusers, are enabled and whitewashed by the crazy morons on the top, such as so-called rabbis like Metzger and his patron Elyashiv.

[Neo-Conservaguy]

Of course we can share anecdotal experiences with people from any group that have "issues"; my point was that I note this occurrence more commonly among certain groups, and the super-frumies are one such group. Another group that has these issues would be the impoverished urban families that surround me, but it's easier for me to understand the driving factors with that group, and that's another topic for another day.

[Yoni]

As was revealed this week on "Uvda" ("Fact", an Israeli news-documentary program similar to 60-Minutes in the U.S.), the Taliban lady, Bruriah Keren - surprise! surprise! - did not grow up chareidi, in fact she grew up on a dati kibbutz, i.e. as left-wing modern-orthodox as they come. None of her siblings are chareidi (I'd venture that most are not observant at all, as is par for the course for people who grow up in dati kibbutzim). Her mother and sisters are interviewed on the segment, and they all disdain her. Her sisters describe her as a "very loose" young woman, who dressed "very provocatively" in "mini-mini skirts". She served in the army (umm... not very chareidi!). How did she meet her husband? Through a nice shidduch?? Umm.. not exactly... they met on an army base when he got her drunk... nice! Reading between the lines you get an impression that she had sex with quite a few men in her youth... nice! Now - surprise! - we're told that she was severely physically abused (albeit not sexually...) by her father. That explains a bit, huh?
The whole segment is less than 15 minutes long, watch it...

http://www.keshet-tv.com/UvdaVideoPage.aspx?MediaID=35381&CatID=4791

The upshot is that Beruriah Keren is for all practical purposes a BT, as - for all practical purposes - is Michal Sheinbaum. Neither of them grew up in the chareidi world. Their move towards religous extremism went hand-in-hand with the deterioration of their mental state. This is not to condone Metzger's idiotic explanations, but there's no escaping the simple truth that most people who become BTs are escaping something and carrying some "baggage".

[Dr. Dave]

These Chareidim - "Quakers" in English are NOT FRUM. You cannot be considered Frum if you ignore the Mitzvot bein adam L' Chaveiro!!!!

[mother in israel]

She grew up in a dati kibbutz, but the children, certainly the boys, travelled to attend charedi schools.

How do you know that none of her siblings are charedi?

[Yoni]

Whose "children, certainly boys,travelled to attend chareidi schools"? Bruriah's siblings? Where did you get that from? It was certainly not mentioned in the "Uvda" segment, and if you know anything about dati kibbutzim, that's about as implausible as chareidim sending their kids to school at a religious kibbutz, i.e. completely anathema.

"How do you know that none of her siblings are charedi?" Umm... did you watch the segment? Did you?! Did anything give you reason to conclude that any one of her siblings is chareidi? Do folks who grow up in dati kibbutzim NORMALLY end up chareidim? The answer is NO. Did you notice how derisively her mother and sisters speak of her and her religous fanaticism, and how they lampoon her?

Can't get around it - Bruriah Keren is a crazed BT.

[Shmarya]

there's no escaping the simple truth that most people who become BTs are escaping something and carrying some "baggage".

There's no escaping "Yoni's" bigotry, it seems.

Most BTs are nice, normal people who have made, I think, a poor choice.

There is no data at all to support what Yoni claims.

As for the rest about the burka cult leader, note Yoni's claim – Michel Scheinbaum is also a "BT" in Yoni's mind. Why? Because she went to MO schools.

That she grew up Orthodox, kept kosher and Shabbos, learned and believed, means nothing to him. MO=Not Orthodox.

Is it any wonder that those misguided MOs who do become haredi will tend toward extremism when haredim view the Orthodoxy of their youth as equivalent to non-observance?

[mother in israel]

I did watch Uvda. I know what I wrote sounds improbable, but I have a private source.

Plenty of charedim would lampoon Keren's veil-wearing and modesty fanaticism.

[Yoni]

Yes, Einstein, making the move from the modern orthodox world to the chareidi one entails the same psychological processes as becoming a BT. I grew up MO and do not have a chareidi bone in my body (my wife wears pants, does not cover her hair, and makes kiddush in our home; I could give a million more "indicators", but for anyone who understands anything, that's enough...), but if I were for any reason to become a chareidi, I would rightly be considered, by others as well as myself, a BT for all intents and purposes.

"Most BTs are nice, normal people who have made, I think, a poor choice." Umm... I think you yourself Shmarya are a prime example of a seriously twisted and troubled BT.

[mother in israel]

And, both the mother and sister in Uvda covered their hair, so while they may not identify as charedi, they are certainly not secular.

[Shmarya]

Yes, Einstein, making the move from the modern orthodox world to the chareidi one entails the same psychological processes as becoming a BT.

Unless you are referring to cult indoctrination, you're wrong.

As for what you are or are not, I'll let readers judge that by what you have written and how you wrote it.

[Yoni]

Mother in Israel - Several sisters of hers were interviewed. I did not notice any one of them with head-covering. I did notice that one of them is pictured at the Kotel with short sleaves. Obviously non-chareidi. That the mother is with head-covering at age 80-something says nothing; many dati women will all of a sudden don head covering when their hair greys. I repeat that it is unheard of for someone from a dati kibbutz (other than maybe Chafetz Chayim or Shaalavim which are in any case Poalei Aguda) sending their kids to chareidi schools; these folks were from Ein Hanatziv, which is on the liberal end. I don't know what your "private sources" tell you, but I have yet to hear of a girl from a chareidi home who does army service...

Shmarya - you prove yourself time and again to be worthy of the BT label. Kol hakavod, fool...

[mother in israel]

Yoni, not that I don't have better things to do erev Pesach, I watched again. The sister who does most of the talking is most definitely wearing a head covering; the second sister (who speaks first) isn't. In the picture from the kotel the sister is both wearing a head covering and has sleeves to just above the elbow.
As for the army, the family was seriously messed up, it clearly wasn't a typical haredi family, but it wasn't secular either. And they weren't ideological religious kibbutznikim either. I don't think they were actually members of the kibbutz.

[Sam]

I have linked to this post. Thanks for bringing this up, Shmarya, and bringing yet more evidence, if it were even needed, that Metzger is a prick.

Real charedim do not abuse their kids.

Yes, and . . .

Real Muslims don't fly planes into buildings or become suicide bombers.

Real Christians don't join the KKK.

[R]

Everyone is a BT. And what about those who grow up frum and orthodox, then go off the rails and then go back to being frum. They are BT too.
All those who pray on YK and promise they won't sin again are BTs.
So to blame child abuse and craziness on BTs is probably right. Except this does not exclude those who don the black hat or the shtreimel or who were brought up strictly orthodox and only sending their kids to charedi schools and yeshivot.

Another reason why i don't listen to alot of Rabbis, especially when they spurt out a load of nonsense that can only be seen as Sinat Chinam.

[The Monsey Tzadik]

You have to admit that large parentage of the baalei teshuva is mental unstable if not outright crazy. In my town you an see those people who less than a year ago were eating cheeseburgers and giving blow job to strangers now criticizing other Jews. You can hear them calling Modern Orthodox and conservative Jews “shkatazim” and saying that people who support the state of Israel are idolatry worshippers, etc.

Some of them are freaks of nature; there is that guy from kol eysav whose peos grow horizontally and without gel. You have to see it to believe it.

[anonybear]

Those that are trying to show a correlation between this lady's unstable nature and her horrific crime and the fact that she became "haredi" or a BT are way off. The lady was abused by her MO father as well, does that mean that MO leads to child abuse. Correlation does not equal causality, people.

[FedUp]

Some one above said that BTs are mentally unbalanced or at least more so then FFBs. Perhaps it's like this. FFBs spend their religious lives gaining back reason from the brainwash they recieved as children. They can usually compartmentalize and live "normal" religious lives. BTs OTOH gave up reason for religion and thus the radicalism. This can lead to mental instability and according to our beloved chief, child abuse. What a sick $%^&! I wish they would play his radio clip before every kiruv program. This is what we FFBs think of you BTs. Maybe they wouldn't be so easily conned into religious delusions.

So first off, though its already been said, he did not decry all baali teshuva, just said that these cases were baalei teshuva (who because they dont necessarily know better) listen to these ideas.

and secondly, about people yelling even if he did; its not his original idea, and is mentioned a couple times in the Ramchal (Derech Hashem), and I believe by a couple of other places.

[Yochanan Lavie]

While it is true that many seek religious conversions are unstable, it is also an unfair generalization. As unhappy as I am about the state of Orthodoxy today (to the extent that I am more conservadox in practice, and heterodox in ideology) I did not make a poor choice by becoming more traditonal. Life was empty for me before developing a personal relationship with God (THEY stole that idea from us), and the rituals give a rhythm to my life. In the past "secularism" and religion were not seperate; one could be religious and embrace science and culture. That is the road I choose. A life w/o religion is stale and meaningless. A life with only religion is stifling and narrow. When my father and brother died recently, it was religion, and my community, that helped me through it- including lifelong friends I made through Orthodoxy. I don't know how I could have gotten through it alone. It is through my shul that I met people in the town I moved into several years ago- w/o shul I would be lonely and isolated there.

It is true my non-Jewish and secular Jewish friends were also helpful, and I am grateful to them, too. But I need a better reason to wake up in the morning than to simply earn money to buy things, to stimulate my nervous systems and fulfill my biological functions. I went through my nutball BT phase, but I emerged from it a more thoughtful believer.

I would not impose my views on anybody, if I had political power. But I am sorry, I did not make a poor choice- despite Lanner and other assholes I had to put up with.

[RHONDA]

GOD'S CHOSEN PEOPLE vs. the master race.......... all racists.