Rabbi Yaakov Horowitz Wimps Out – The New Music Ban, part 11

Rabbi Yaakov Horowitz, 'rebbe' to many J-bloggers, was interviewed on the Zev Brenner Show last night. Rabbi Horowitz refused to comment on the Lipa Schmeltzer-concerts ban, even though that was the show's topic.

(I have posted the entire show as an mp3 file after the jump in the extended post below.)

Rabbi Horowitz pleaded with listeners to not criticize 'gedolim.' He claimed he's never heard Lipa sing (like he couldn't take 10 minutes before the show and listen), so he couldn't comment on any potential reasons for the ban.

Please.

Worse than that, Rabbi Horowitz has made a clear, open and deliberate choice. He has decided to…

…sacrifice truth and fair play in order to keep "at-risk" kids inside haredism.

In effect what Rabbi Horowitz said and wrote is telling kids the truth about gedolim will cause many of these kids to leave the fold. So avoid that problem – lie.

Another rabbi, forced to chose between truth and convenience, between truth and unfairness, between truth and deceit has again chosen to take the easy, disingenuous way out.

Rabbi Horowitz knows full well that many of the so-called gedloim who signed that ban are nothing more than thugs, our own Taliban-wannabes in shtreimlach and kapotes. He knows some of them were duped, some of them are doddering, and others have little to no concern for those outside their narrow circle.

And he knows the big 'secret' most of us know –the vast majority of those rabbis were never gedolim in the first place.

But he also knows if the hierarchical structure of the haredi community collapses, so does haredism. So, he makes his deal with the devil, so to speak.

I've had some personal contact with Rabbi Horowitz over the years. I like him. Until I saw his most recent column and heard him on Zev Brenner, I considered him to be a figure I could look up to.

In fact, in the dark of some nights, on the very rare occasions when I've thought about what I would do if I decided to return to Orthodox observance, I thought perhaps I'd rely on Rabbi Horowitz to guide me.

No more.

But it's not just no more for Rabbi Horowitz; it's no more for return, as well.

Why?

As I heard Rabbi Horowitz carefully avoiding saying anything about the 'gedolim' that could even remotely be construed as critical, as I heard him shill for a concept, daas torah, that has killed more Jews than many epidemics and that today destroys the lives of many children whose rabbis – shielded by daas torah – rape and abuse them, it finally clicked.

There may be good haredim, but there is no good haredism.

There is no haredism to return to.

Horowitz claimed the 'gedolim' years ago gave him a daas torah (i.e., told him it was a good idea) to push for more recreation for haredi youth. A woman called in an pointedly told Rabbi Horowitz that no yeshiva in Borough Park allows its students to go to concerts, take swimming lessons, or play sports. Most of the so-called gedolim live in? You got it, Borough Park.

Rabbi Horowitz was briefly taken aback. Then he did what any good haredi has been trained to do since birth. He blamed the victims and their parents.

If the school doesn't allow recreation, Rabbi Horowitz said, send your kid elsewhere. It's the parents' fault.

But it is not the parents' fault. When leaders with 'daas torah'  say no sports, no recreation, and these leaders are the rabbis of these parents, then by Rabbi Horowitz's own theology, shilled for over and over again last night, the parents must listen to those 'gedolim.'

Every supportive point Rabbi Horowitz made was made in response to pointed questions from Zev Brenner or from listeners. On his own, he was nothing but a mouthpiece for the 'gedolim.'

If BeyondBT, that besotted blog of group think that uses Rabbi Horowitz as an adviser, had any guts, they'd dump HaRav HaGoan Horowitz. But they won't.

But many others in the J-blog world have looked up to Rabbi Horowitz. We linked to his columns. We heaped praise. We rooted for him.

Will this continue?

I hope not.

For you J-Bloggers who missed last night's broadcast, here it is as an mp3 file. Listen to it all. Note how Rabbi Horowitz constantly avoids answering tough questions. Note how he shills for the so-called gedolim. Note how he blames the victims, not the rabbis who (non-sexually, this time, at least) abused them. Realize that every good statement the man makes is drawn out of him by a persistent, tough question.

Then treat Rabbi Horowitz as he should be treated – a nicer, kinder version of Rabbi Avi Shafran. A company man, not an honest man – certainly not a rebbe.

Download zev_brenner_yaakov_horowitz.mp3

Download rabbihorowitz_lipa_ban.pdf

Zev Brenner TalkLine Communications homepage.

Comments

so glad that you brought this up, I didn't think at first it was the same guy, as i thought he had his head on straight, but he was nasty on the radio... he's a phony like the rest

[Anon]

To be fair to Rabbi Horowitz, he is a very public Chareidi personage who sticks his neck out farther than anyone else of his stature. Under the guise of protecting the children, he nevertheless knowingly, I believe, shines the spotlight on the ugly situation and indirectly legitimizes criticism of the so called Gedolim.

He's more effective this way.

Look at him. His kids need shidduchim and he can't afford to be ostracized.

Let us not condemn him but sympathize.

I do condemn anyone who buys a product and supports our gedoylim and their cash register.

These gedolim are bullies. In fact some of my kids went to school with these gedolim or there progeny and were bullied by them. In fact I went to school with a couple of them and were never impressed by their midos or by their erudition. I had to be told how brilliant they were but never saw that they were super.
Do not buy any product with hashgocho that does not need one. Read Rav Abadi's website and learn. Kashrut.org

[Garnel Ironheart]

I can understand his comment telling parents to send their kids to a different school. In fact, I think he's on to something more than just blaming the victim.

There is an old rule in politics - people get the government they deserve. If chareidim are so afraid of the leadership that they will put up with any and all fanaticism that is imposed on them, then they deserve what they get.

God created us with intelligence and free will. Knuckling under to an elite cadre causes a person to deny both those gifts. Yes, by all means the parents who are worried about their kids should pull those children out of their madrassas and put them in other schools where they will get a better education and physical lifestyle.

Will there be a problem getting sidduchim? This is a hollow argument. If you have so many problems with the culture, why are you so worried your child won't be able to marry into it in the future? Wouldn't being banned be a step up?

[avrohom]

In a time of war in ISrael Scotty and all his friends should ashamed of themselves using all their energy to denigrate Judaism. Let them use their energy to protest the onslaught at civilians in Sderot and AShkelon. Instead on hiding your dirty faces in sand, for your mindset brough this FALSEPEACE AND ALL THESE PIECES you should do teshuva for you did not accept the vision of the Rebbe who foresaw how beggining the "pieceprocess" would bring terror in ashkelon. Instead of making teshuva for your worship of false secularideologies that is responsible for the thousands of deaths and the war we are facing you waste your imbecile energy in eschweing yiddishkeyt. Your ideologies are killing jews and not one word about it.

[not avrohom]

I actually considered what the "rebbe" said about the "pieceprocess" but then I realized that that too is "worship of false secularideologies"

[MalachHamovies]

i know rabbi horowitz. He is a well-meaning and kind man. However, he is working for evil people (the gedolim ,agudah and their askanim hyenas). He is between a rock and a hard place. He does not want to arouse the wrath of the "gedolim" and have him and his family ostracized and have his parnossa put in major jeopardy.

He knows the chinuch system developed and maintained by the gedolim is toxic and totally f****d up. But there is nothing he can do except for writing articles and trying to assist kids and their families.

Everyone in the frum community that has a family (and extended family) and in many cases work for frum people (or have business dealing with them) are in a quandary about what do do when they see all this evil.

[Shmarya]

Then he should have stayed quiet.

Instead, he shilled for 'daas torah' and for those 'gedolim.'

[rabbidw]

He censored my comment, in two places. One, I cannot remember what I said, but the other was quite ordinary. I said trhat this was part of a pattern with the censorship of Rabbi Nathan Kaminetzky and Rabbi Slifkin. I said that Lipa was in good company. The part that says Lipa is in good company is still there, but my comparison was taken out.

[MalachHamovies]

I have to admit that you both have a point. On the program he unfortunately used the asinine argument about "blaming the parents". Does that mean when our leaders f**k up the parents are at fault. Unforgivable !!

[TheAnswer]

I completely disagree. Change must be incremental. The fact R. Horowitz has an open blog and is pushing the envelope in many ways puts him "at risk" of being silenced. Do you expect him to go on a live radio show and put his neck out to be cut off?

As with any group, the leader's power is in the masses. Give time for a following to organize around him and don't be so impatient.

"He has been working for evil people.." and is being blackmailed for his parnassa.
The old parnassa excuse, right behind the abuse excuse, and the 'they made me do it' excuse which was used so well by the SS. "I just couldn't get out of it, the uniforms were soooo elegant."
In someways the enablers are more dangerous; weak willed grey area inhabitants unable to stand up for the truth. The crows are hijacking Yiddishkeit. They now believe they 'own' the Torah but they no longer have the intellect or moral integrity to study, or interpret, or learn, or teach it. Therefore they should perform honest labour for a living. GET REAL JOBS.
They stand for corruption in all its forms and now we must witness a pity party for the 'good ones' and their pitiful families and all the rest of the rubbish. Their stories should arouse no compassion at all.

[meyer]

so glad to hear that stupid scotty is gone from orthodoxy. if only scottt meshumad meisis umeidiach would die a horrible tortured death, I'd personaly attend his funeral to kick his ass one last time.

[non]

what boys schools in boro park TODAY are not chassidic?

[yidandahalf]

multiple meyer is back. archie must still be on a cruise.

[shmuel]

It was once a beautiful, uplifting religion. It once stood for truth. Yes, TRUTH. You know, not falsity, but truth itself.
And now, no more. Hijacked by little people who have an agenda of their own imagination and creation. Try debating with them: they and their supporters will argue the sillliest, most intellectually inconsistent arguments. Ask them too tough questions and they refuse to answer. They hang up.
Really, boys, it's over. A beautiful faith, with joy, and song, and study, and prayer, now denuded of all its joy and song. By chasidim, no less. The irony is delicious: they, chasidic anti-establishment types created a new form of Judaism based on joy and song, and the Litvish elite clobbered them so that they changed. Three hundred years later, they are the establishment and now they are the ones clobbering those who push joy and song.
Pathetic.
Judaism: gone. It was nice knowing you. Thanks for the nice memories.
It only gets worse from here.

[Gary]

Rabbi Horowitz is a fraud, plain and simple. He heads Project YES, which is under the Agudah umbrella, so of course he'll only go so far.

He reminds me of the "cool" rebbe in some haredi high schools, who tries to show the guys that he's one of them, that he understands them, that he's not out of touch like the others, and when you finally open up to him he stabs you in the back.

He's full of talk, but the bottom line is, as you've seen, nothing's been done. Rabbi Horowitz, talk is cheap, shut up and dance! Show some beitzim!

[Neandershort]

Shmuel - I hope you're wrong. It's not Judaism that's to blame here; it's our fawning on doddering old fools with their heads up you-know-where. We have to strengthen institutions like Chovevei Torah and the sensible portion of Y.U., and if we can't inject some Torah Viagra into the Rabbinical Council of America, we will have to form a parallel body. Also, strengthen the Conservative movement and its Solomon Schechter schools; there has to be some place Jewish for our disillusioned dropouts to drop into.

[Jaded Topaz]

There are no real leaders nowadays. I came to this conclusion long ago.
When possible I guess it's good to focus on the good individuals do.
I generally try to ignore all religious leaders nowadays .Their agenda driven drivel drives me dizzy and the heartwarming ulterior motives don't speak to my heart in any way,the caring smiles and (censored) articles and periodicals in triumphant English notwithstanding.

But I definitely don't think "besotted group think" is the correct combination of words to be used when describing Beyondbt, that word combo has the wrong connotations and undertones too.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Although I don't want to throw out the entire rabbinic tradition, Anan ben David had a point. Read the miqra, and think for yourself. Don't blindly follow leaders (not even himself, ben David said).

[R]

"In a time of war in ISrael Scotty and all his friends should ashamed of themselves using all their energy to denigrate Judaism."

I think the charedim do this on their own.
There are no gedolim in this world, if they are they are too few and probably are only seen within their own little communities.
These big Rabbis with their even bigger egos are only in it for power and money.
As for buying stuff with hechsherim. Part of the problem is the kashruth authorities that lie to you because of money. They tell you that even if you can buy without a hechsher it's better to buy with a hechsher. Why? Because some hocus pocus rabbi put his seal on a product? More like that Rabbi will be putting your money in his pocket while the non hechshered product would be better and cheaper.
Judaism is a joke and the reason it is so is because of all this chassidism that has filtered into it.
It saddens me to see Judaism turn into Charedism and with it into Talibanism.
It's a disgrace and chilul Hashem.

[yidandahalf]

HOW LOW CAN YOU GO? Never low enough for the crows. Whenever the s**t hits the fan and all else fails we get "They're firing rockets at Sderot and this is what you misnagdim do!"
This from people who delve into such arcana as sea lice and infested mushrooms ( "Is your family safe?" ) for a living. Is such 'thinking' a result of repressed sexuality?, is it a sort of chassidisch version of OCPD? When confronted with such towering examples confusion I find the followers even more fearful to think about. The lackeys are the ones who become truly frightening to me. They are positively demonic. There is simply no other explanation. The yetzer hara has almost completely taken over these people.

[Yehudi Hilchati]

I think you're being too hard on Rabbi Horowitz. He's never claimed to be anything but Charedi and the charedi world believes in Da'as Torah. I may be biased though, as a former talmid of Rabbi Horowitz (albeit one who he would consider at least partially "off the derech")

[viv]

Not for one moment can you consider that they (the gedolim) perhaps know more than you?
When it comes to gedolim, the general approach is that "I may not understand why, but it is clear that with their far superior knowledge in Torah, they have a more global view of the picture than I do." That is why we call them gedolim - because we respect their knowledge and opinion. If not, then what are they to us?
Many times throughout our lives, we've had the experience of a certainty of being right, only to find out that we were wrong. That the person in charge did know what they were doing.
The person in charge is Hashem. His shelichim are the gedolim. Respect that.