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March 23, 2008

Purim Fest, 1946 – A Tale of Kiruv

Many of you are familiar with the Purim story told as part of Aish Hatorah's Discovery Seminars.

But I bet you didn't know…

…the truth behind the myth.

First, the myth.

After the first day of fighting, the king asks Esther what else she wants him to grant her. Esther asks the king to hang the 10 sons of Haman. But, the 10 sons have already been killed!

Aish then brings Rabbi Wiessmandl who says that, sometime in the "future" 10 more "sons" of Haman will be killed.

Then, Aish tells you that, as 10 Nazi war criminals were hung at Nuremberg, all together as one, just as with Haman's sons, one of the Nazis, Julius Streicher, called out "Purim Fest 1946!"

Aish then adds another detail meant to give you the willies. There were 11 Nazis slated to be killed that day. Only 10 were because one, Herman Goring, committed suicide in his cell.

Aish tells you that Haman's daughter killed herself as well, and Goring was a well-known cross dresser.

Here's what Aish does not tell you.

Streicher and the Nazis were close students of Jewish culture. They timed deportations and mass killings to coincide with Jewish holidays. They built anti-Jewish propaganda based on Jewish customs and observances – and one of their favorite holidays for this purpose was Purim.

Here's how Menachem Mendel tells the story:

I am reading Saul Friedländer’s Nazi Germany and the Jews: Volume I, The Years of Persecution (also see this post), and in his discussion of the infamous anti-Semetic newspaper Der Stürmer, I happen to come across this timely mention of Purim (emphasis added).

In its August 1935 issue (no. 35), Streicher’s paper took up a story previously published by the Reutlinger Tageblatt about a Jewish chemist, Dr. R.F., who had been accused of torturing a cat to death. According to Der Stürmer, in order to kill the cat, F. had tied it up in a sack, which he then threw onto the concrete in front of his door. “After that, he jumped with both feet on the poor animal, performing a true Negroe dance on it. As he could not kill the animal in that way, although it bled through the sack, he took a board and hit the cat with the edge until he killed it.” Der Stürmer linked the killing of the cat to “the slaughter of 75,000 Persians in the Book of Esther” and the killing of “millions of non-Jews” in “the most horrible way” in contemporary Russia. “The complacent bourgeois thinks far too little about what would happen in Germany if the Jews came to power once more,” Der Stürmer concluded. (p. 124)

Purim was a holiday which was important to the Nazis because it showed how bloodthirsty Jews really are.

The numerous confessions made by the Jews show that the execution of ritual murders is a law to the Talmud Jew. The former chief rabbi, and later monk, Teofite, declared that the ritual murders take place especially on the Jewish Purim in memory of the Persian murders, and Passover in memory of the murder of Christ. (Der Stürmer, no. 14)

In the Book of Esther, we read that in one bloody night the Jews slaughtered and destroyed 75,000 Persians. Even today, the Jew celebrates Purim to commemorate his great triumph. (Robert Ley, Pesthauch der Welt)

Purim was featured in the Nazi propoganda film The Eternal Jew and the Nazis saw Purim as part of a pattern of Jewish responsibility for tragic events in human history.

In other words, the Nazis were intimately familiar with Purim and viewed the holiday as an archetype for the Jews' supposed "bloodthirstiness."

Streicher, the publisher of Der Sturmer, by profession needed to be an expert on Jews and Judaism, and he needed to use JUdaism against the Jews. And so he did. Yelling "Purim Fest!" is not only unsurprising, but it fits perfectly with a lifetime of the man's work.

Rabbi Wiessmandl wrote after the war, after Nuremberg, after Striecher's scream had been publicized. Arguing from his conclusion, Rabbi Wiessmandl saw the Megillah played out before his eyes, and Esther's request fulfilled. He wrote that sometime in the "future" 10 more "sons" of Haman will be killed.

This is not unlike "finding" past events using the so-called Torah Code. 6 million Jews were murdered. Esther did not ask for the Jews to be able to defend themselves or for any other measure that would have saved lives. No. She asked for the deaths of 10 Nazis after the murders of 6 million Jews were finished.

What this says about Esther is not particularly kind. What it says about God is even worse.

A simple reading of the text makes it clear what Esther asked for was the public impalement of the dead bodies of Haman's sons, to show the Persian populace that the Jews had, in fact, triumphed.

Is Nuremberg an eerie parallel to Purim?

Let's look.

Haman would have had 24 "sons" at Nuremberg:

12 were sentenced to death.

One of those, Martin Bormann, was already dead. He committed suicide in 1945 but his death was not confirmed until 1998.

One, Goring, killed himself the night before the hangings.

10 were hanged.

Another committed suicide the year before.

One was medically unfit to stand trial.

Two were acquitted.

8 were sentenced to varying terms including life in prison.

Does this match up with the Purim story?

I don't think so.

Comments

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Come on tell the whole Purim link. Millenia, etc

I agree Jake. The letters written in different sizes corresponding to the year can not be overlooked. The day of execution Hoshana Raba. All this done by a secular court???

The story about the cat is sick nonsense even if one sick Jew happened to do it. We are commanded to remeber what Amalek did. And to fight his evil rom "generation to generation".

After everything only 10 were hung and one transvestite commited suicide. Not coincidence.

Of course the Nazis knew about Purim. And alot more about Judaism. An angel didn't tell Streicher to say "Purimfest 1946" at the last minute. The (sad) point is most Jews don't know the connection and many Nazis did.

There is no doubt about the connection between Amalek, Haman, Hitler, and their attacking to destroy ALL Jews before we settled in eretz Yisroel.

Truly G-d's hand in history. Hidden-Esther

Exodus 17:16
The LORD will be at war against the Amalekites from generation to generation."

1 When Israel came up out of Egypt, before we entered the land Amalek attacked. The difference between Amalek and the other nations who attacked Israel is Amalek sought to destroy all Jews, including the women, children, and the weak. This is what is meant by the verse-

Deut 25:17 Remember what the Amalekites did to you along the way when you came out of Egypt. 18 When you were weary and worn out, they met you on your journey and cut off all who were lagging behind; they had no fear of God.

The weak/old/women/children were in the rear. This set Amalek’s apart from the other nations.

2 Before we entered the land the second time Esau and Amalek’s descendant Haman tried to destroy all the Jews – Es 3:6 Haman looked for a way to destroy all Mordecai's people, the Jews.

3 The third time before we entered the land Esau and Amalek arose to destroy all Jewish men women and children – Hitler and his henchmen.

Surely this is not coincidence and shows the hand of the Almighty in history.

Hitler said in Mein Kampf, "I am embarked on a struggle to the death with the Jews for the hearts and minds of men. The Jews have inflicted two wounds on mankind. Circumcision for the body, and conscience for the soul. I am come to free mankind from their bondage."

"The struggle for world domination will be fought entirely between us, between Germans and Jews. All else is facade and illusion. Rauschning, Hitler Speaks, p.
234

"The Ten Commandments have lost their validity. Conscience is a Jewish invention, it is a blemish like circumcision."
- Rauschning, Hitler Speaks, p. 220

The Nazis knew more about Judaism than just Purim. Sadly they knew more about Judaism than the over 6 million we have lost to assimilation.

This makes the work of groups like Aish vital to Judaism.

It is truly sad to see this article on failed messiah.com.

hey shmar' whats your point?
the only point i get from your rambligs,is that you somehow justify the nazis exterminating the six million men women and children
you are nothig but a piece of human garbage,i have no doubt .that if you would have been in auschwits,you would have been the top JEWISH CAPO
drop dead you miserable piece of drek

hey shmar' whats your point?
the only point i get from your rambligs,is that you somehow justify the nazis exterminating the six million men women and children
you are nothig but a piece of human garbage,i have no doubt .that if you would have been in auschwits,you would have been the top JEWISH CAPO
drop dead you miserable piece of drek

Some of the Aish idiots vandalized the wiki entry for Julius Streicher and added the aish nonsense that Julius Streicher’s last words were “purim feist 1946”

What he really said “ was the bulsheviks will hang you one day”

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Julius_Streicher&diff=199521258&oldid=190397011

>> I agree Jake. The letters written in different sizes corresponding to the year can not be overlooked. The day of execution Hoshana Raba. All this done by a secular court???

1) Dov Bear has a good post and comment thread that would answer the particular objection of the size of the letters: http://dovbear.blogspot.com/2005/03/purimfest-1946.html

2) about the Hoshana Raba thing, correlation does not prove causation. Its basic logic people.

From that DovBear post:http://dovbear.blogspot.com/2005/03/purimfest-1946.html

1 - In 9:13 Esther is simply asking that the dead sons of Haman be allowed to remain on the gallows as a warning. She isn't asking to kill them again. She is asking the King to let them hang for another day.

2 - God's verdicts are sealed on Hoshana Rabba only for the baynonim, those who are neither fully righteous nor fully evil. Were the Nazi leaders baynonin?

3 - The taf-shin-zayin combination only equals 707. The millennium (5000) is not indicated.

4 - There are at least three traditions of [different] large and small letters in the names of Haman's sons. The Yeminites, for example, have no small zayin.

This type of similarity shopping is analagous to Bible Codes or the famous Lincoln / Kennedy assassination comparisons. The impressiveness hinges on the fact that the person is looking for similarities, rather than differences. This makes it seem more statistically significant than it is.

The Taf Shin Zayin objection could be answered by the Aish folks as by saying that the EUROPEAN minhag matches Taf Shin Zayin in any case.

As Shmarya pointed out in the pot, Streicher' final declaration was recorded in Newsweek, and in all likelihood, he meant it as Shmarya said, a reference to the Jewish bloodthirstiness of slaughtering 75000 people, of which he considered himself one. A perusal of the delusional writings of antisemitic conspiracy theorists bears that out nicely. So this point adds another coincidence for the kiruv pros (Nibei v'lo yada ma nibei).

It is entirely possible that Weissmandl backfit the facts of Nuremberg to the Megilla story in inventing this pilpul. In Chabad, I heard support for this pilpul in the name of avi Ha"Shela HaKodesh, but no one could point to it in his writings, that he interpreted 707 as a year.

I think stuff like this and the Rambam code in Parshas Bo (Mishna and Torah at 50 ELS separated by 613 letters) are cool, but as the statisticians who have written on them, finding similarities or significances is easy when you are looking for them. When we realize how many things we attach significance to, we are not swept up by it. It's still cool though.

As you can see, my s key is giving me trouble. pot = post

Aish did not make up the different traditions on the small letters.

It's not their "fault" one has a smal tav, shin, and zayin.

But the names of Haman’s ten sons also show a large vav in the last name Vayzata.

The large vav refers to the Jewish millennium – “5.” The “707” refers to the century and year.

Not coincidence. Aish did not write the Megilla.

His last words, before execution on October 16, 1946, were "Heil Hitler," and, "The Bolsheviks will hang you one day!". He also cried out ""Purim Fest 1946!" - i.e., Ten Nazis were being hanged, just as the ten sons of Haman were hanged in the story of Purim, which was an earlier attempt to wipe out the Jews

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Streicher

I suggest you re-read.

1. There are at least 3 DIFFERENT traditions about which letters are small and which large. Only one of those works with the Aish story.

2. His last words are not what Wikipedia now says. He yelled out Purim fest 1946! and then, "The Bolsheviks will hang you all one day!"

3. No one says Aish "made up" the tradition of which letters are small and which large. No one is even saying Aish made up the idea that this perfectly correlates to Nuremberg.

What we are correctly saying is that, when all the facts are taken together, it does not perfectly match.

Also the quote about Streicher's last words are from Newsweek Oct 28, 1946.

Aish did not vandalize any wikisight.

This is the quote verbatim-

"Only Julius Streicher went without dignity. He had to be pushed across the floor, wild eyed and screaming "heil hitler". Mounting the steps he cried out: "And now I go to G-d." He stared at the witnesses facing the gallows and shouted "Purimfest, 1946" (Purim is a Jewish feast)

Aish made up nothing. Even if these were not Streicher's very last wiords he did say them on the gallows - close enough.

The final results match. Not coincidence.

"There are at least 3 DIFFERENT traditions about which letters are small and which large. Only one of those works with the Aish story."

I have checked into this. Aish is using the most widely used Megilla. They did not write any of them. Get off their back. Leave well enough alone.

Your problem with the Rebbe is turning into a problem with Judaism.


It's not "Aish's" story. Talk with the people who wrote this particular Megilla Aish "is using".

Scott

No one is arguing the facts. Indeed, 10 people were hanged and a cross dresser committed suicide. The date was Hoshana Rabba and JS did mention Purim among his last thoughts. There is a tradition, especially in Europe that the small letters are Taf Shin Zayin. That is cool as I said. But statistically it is not that amazing.

Consider: Lincoln / Kennedy assassinations

1) AL elected in 1860, JFK in 1960
2) AL killed in a theatre, perp fled to warehouse, JFK killed in warehouse, perp fled to theatre.
3) Both last names have seven letters.
4) Both have Biblical Hebrew first names.
5) Both were killed over civil rights
6) Both succeeded by a VP southerner named Johnson
7) Both had strange physical syndromes (AL had Marfan's, JFK had Addison's.)
8) Lincoln had a secretary named Kennedy, JFK had a secretary named Lincoln.
9) Both VP successors served only one term.
10) Both VP's were deeply suspected by Congress.
11) Both AL and JFK battled depression.

And this could go on all night. Obviously, there is no prophetic connection and I could run off as many differences as similarities. (AL poor, JFK rich, JFK veteran, AL not, JFK short, Lincoln tall, etc.) The point is that the "amazing" similarities are only amazing because I knew the target of the "prophecy". They are not all that unusual.

why do we need to find fault Again with what non-chabad are doing????!!!

Scott

No one is arguing the facts. Indeed, 10 people were hanged and a cross dresser committed suicide. The date was Hoshana Rabba and JS did mention Purim among his last thoughts. There is a tradition, especially in Europe that the small letters are Taf Shin Zayin. That is cool as I said. But statistically it is not that amazing.

Consider: Lincoln / Kennedy assassinations

1) AL elected in 1860, JFK in 1960
2) AL killed in a theatre, perp fled to warehouse, JFK killed in warehouse, perp fled to theatre.
3) Both last names have seven letters.
4) Both have Biblical Hebrew first names.
5) Both were killed over civil rights
6) Both succeeded by a VP southerner named Johnson
7) Both had strange physical syndromes (AL had Marfan's, JFK had Addison's.)
8) Lincoln had a secretary named Kennedy, JFK had a secretary named Lincoln.
9) Both VP successors served only one term.
10) Both VP's were deeply suspected by Congress.
11) Both AL and JFK battled depression.

And this could go on all night. Obviously, there is no prophetic connection and I could run off as many differences as similarities. (AL poor, JFK rich, JFK veteran, AL not, JFK short, Lincoln tall, etc.) The point is that the "amazing" similarities are only amazing because I knew the target of the "prophecy". They are not all that unusual.

Take the Discovery Seminar then let's talk.

The comparison of Lincoln and Kennedy is only evidence the story of Haman and Hitler is true.

By the way-

It is an urban myth that Lincoln had a secretary named Kennedy. There is no record of that.

Statistically it is not amazing that the Nurembourg trials were prophesized in the Tanach 2350 yeasr ago?

Okay it was just an accident.

Statistically it is not amazing that the Nurembourg trials were prophesized in the Tanach 2350 yeasr ago?

Okay it was just an accident.

The Reincarnation of Abraham Lincoln

into John Kennedy


http://www.near-death.com/experiences/reincarnation08.html

Scott –

Having actually taken the Discovery Seminar and studied at Aish, I can again point out that Aish only mentions the similarities but COVERS UP the differences.

Further, you bring mistaken arguments. As RebelJew pointed out, no one is arguing the basic facts – we're arguing what is left out of the story by Aish changes the story into a much less special event.

Obviously, you have never thought very deeply into the significance of the Aish story as told.

According to your understanding, Esther is allowed to ask for anything "up to half" of the kingdom.

She asked for these 10 Nazis to be hanged.

She does not ask for Jews lives to be saved. She does not ask for the Holocaust to be averted. She does not ask to save children or women. She does not ask for gas chambers not to be built.

She does not ask for a return to Jerusalem and a Jewish state before the Holocaust.

She does not ask for any of dozens of things that would have saved Jewish life.

Instead, she relies on the nations of the world to stop the Nazis, and she relies on the nations of the world to bring the surviving war criminals to justice.

She only asks for 10 Nazis to be hanged, not the hundreds who should have been.

Esther comes out looking very bad. But so does God.

Take the Discovery Seminar then let's talk.

Done. I even have the pamphlets, that I kept over the years. Bible codes, proof from the four animals with one kosher sign. I have them all.

"The comparison of Lincoln and Kennedy is only evidence the story of Haman and Hitler is true."

How so? It appears to be evidence of how people find spurious connections in all kinds of data, because they are not looking at the data statistically to determine if it is unusual or not.

"http://www.near-death.com/experiences/reincarnation08.html"
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOkay then, I guess we clear that up. (whistles nervously and tries to avoid eye contact)

"It is an urban myth that Lincoln had a secretary named Kennedy. There is no record of that."

I agree, but it is used by pro-coincidence folks (which you are apparently one of), so I included it a fortiari. (IE I gave them a connection that doesn't even exist.)

"Statistically it is not amazing that the Nurembourg trials were prophesized in the Tanach 2350 yeasr ago? Okay it was just an accident."

Since the reality of that "prophecy" is what we are discussing, this assertion simply begs the question. Nowhere does megilla mention Hitler, Nazis, Germany, Nuremberg, UN, Allies, WWII or anything related to the Holocaust (nor Sadam Husein for that matter, nor Chielminiki, nor any of the rest). I think we can agree on that unless the Bible Code folks want a crack at it. But, McKay et al have demonstrated that effect in War and Peace as well, so it might be a good bet for you. It was only Weismandl who made the connection AFAIK.

This is no els. Not simply a "code". Aish covers up nothing. Matter of fact it's all the different circumsatnces which lead to the same end results which make it evn more remarkable.

The New York Times headlines read "Goring commits suicide, Ten Others Hanged".

Aish did not make that up. Aish has never intentionally "covered up anything".

As far as McKay, codes come out in any book, but statistically not comprable to the Torah. One reason is the codes McKay found do not (or rarely) come out in a place relevant to that subject.

Again - Amalek, Haman, Hitler.

It doesn't take an idiot to see this is not coincidence.

3 times we setttled the land and 3 times "someone" just happenned to attack to murder us all.

Shmarya lighten up.

Aish has never intentionally "covered up anything".

It just 'forgets" to mention the other 13 Nazis on trial and all the other DISSIMILARITIES to the Purim story.

As far as McKay, codes come out in any book, but statistically not comprable to the Torah. One reason is the codes McKay found do not (or rarely) come out in a place relevant to that subject.

The Codes researchers, Ripps, et al, originally claimed there wee NO statistically relevant codes found elsewhere. THey were proved wrong, and their methods of collecting data – especially what Gans did – has been proved fatally flawed.

Is it any coincidence that Gans worked for Aish? I don't think so.

"It just 'forgets" to mention the other 13 Nazis on trial and all the other DISSIMILARITIES to the Purim story."

Shmarya you are judging negatively without evidence. Stick to the child molesting, conversion problems etc,...

McKays work dealt with els's. This is NOT an els. McKay's work can't touch this.

I know what Ripps claimed. We all learn. Does not not make McKay's research "proof" Ripps works is "fatally flawed". Wishful thinking.

Amalek, Haman, Hitler. Even a dummy can see the light. No coincidence.

The Naziis didn't know anything about anything--a bunch of mumbling, drooling, arrested adolescent swoony retards, whose crackpot doggends of semi-literate factoidal jibbersih never amounted to any "expertise"

Is this a big joke? You are trying to prove or disprove Judaism based on the sarcastic remarks of Nazis? Don't stop there, Eichmann recited the Shema when he was captured, I suppose that proves the Torah is true. But the most disturbing line in this whole "megilla" is that of Scott, who is willing to accept Der Stuermer's story about that "one sick Jew" as being based in fact. This whole conversation would be better off not having happened. Imagine. There's a whole series of articles on this site dealing with the problematics of the history of Esther, yet, everyone is willing to assume that somehow she influenced the outcome of the American judges at Nuremberg. Bible codes, Aish "proofs" based on Nazis (they also have a line that if it weren't for persecution Jews would be the most numerous people on the planet and rule the world).
What are you folks all smoking?

They're "smoking" Orthodox Judaism, sad to say.

Sorry to repeat myself, but as a child of survivors and one who grew up in its dark shadow, I went back to confirm that someone named "Scott", a well known Jewish name, advocating increased Jewish observance, could put in writing the following statement. I guess we should go searching through East Germany and the Baltic states to find our "true" rebbeim:

The Nazis knew more about Judaism than just Purim. Sadly they knew more about Judaism than the over 6 million we have lost to assimilation.

I feel like tearing kriyah after seeing these words.

These jews were lost to assimilation for the same reason that jews are "being lost" from the orthodox perspective today- the orthodox are just too damn strict.

maven: 20 + of my family were lost in the camps. It's a sad fact more Jews have been lost to assimilation (walked away from Judaism) than the 6 million Hitler murdered. I think you misunderstand what I wrote.

SJ-I agree. Again it's what makes groups like Aish so vital. They are trying to bridge this gap- between the haredim, mo, and non orthodox.

maven--the Naziis knew less about Judaism than the most assimilated know-nothing who at least knows nothing, the Naziis knew less than nothing because all they really knew were the mirror images of their own fears and baseness. Those of you who believe in all mystical power of "codes" are, however, perhaps in a unique position to understand the runic and occult genius of Nazidom.

Scott, cut the crap. Aish is trying to control the nonorthodox, not bridge the gap.

I heard a Lubavitcher tell me that the Rebbe "killed" Stalin on Purim. (It is well known that Stalin was planning deportations to Siberia of most, but not all, Jews around the time of his death).

The Rebbe, in a Purim fabringen shouted "hurrah!" The chevra responded: "hurrah." Then the Rebbe started rhythmically chanting a staccato "hu rah, hu rah, hu rah" which the crowd took up. (Hu rah= "he is evil"). Stalin died that night.

This Lubav sincerly believed that the chanting killed Stalin. Rational? No. It's a matter of faith. With all respect to the Rebbe, and other well-meaning kiruv-ists, it's not the kind of faith that appeals to me. I prefer to see things in the hands of God- not Esther or the Rebbe. He is inscrutible, and sometimes appears tardy or indifferent. But I prefer a difficult Diety to one that can be manipulated by mere mortals.

"20 + of my family were lost in the camps."

So you think your family would have suffered equally if these relatives weren't quite shomer shabbat or didn't believe in Bible codes? Or are they part of that 6 million "lost" as well, having named you "scott"?
As far as not understanding what you wrote, I understand all too well. I'm yeshiva trained, have learned in serious Yeshivot in Israel, gave a shiur for many years, have advanced degrees, and have heard all this garbage a million times.
If you believe that people with free will making choices about their lives is equal to the crematorium, well, then Aish Hatorah is just the right place for you to identify with.
And if Torah Codes is what defines your Judaism, then you are a lost soul as well, as there is no mesorah whatsoever for Torah codes anywhere in Jewish sources, except for a stray mention of the word "dilugim" in the Rokeach, which I doubt you are using as a source. I personally find the "Aish" discovery program more odious than anything I've found in Chabad. (I actually heard a nice response to the Codes nonsense from an "old" Chabad rabbi who I respect, not a meshichist by any means. When asked what he thought of these "codes", he said that if there was anything to it, the Rebbe would have mentioned them at some point. Multiply that answer for the Rambam, the Gra, Ramhal, etc, and that's the value of "codes".)

Paul- please, do not confuse my thoughts with those of the folks I was citing with deep scorn. The suggestion that the Nazis knew more about Judaism than the children they threw into the fires of the crematorium apparently comes from Aish (fitting, now that I think of it).

May Hashem have mercy on our souls.

Why should I care that the Yemeni megilla had only 2 out of the 3 letters in larger print? Either they bungled the tradition along the way or they had it wrong to begin with, or somehow the European Jews magically stumbled upon a new tradition of having 3 letters large instead of 2 (if we assume that the Yemeni way was "original" and Europeans incorporated some scribal error into it later on - somehow? ). All this is irrelevant.

What became the most widespread and universal tradition for the Megilla writing was the three large letters that correspond to this story. Because 2 out of the many groups and sects of Jews had it different in remote locations doesn't change what the megilla is in a vast majority of writings and doesn't change the connection here in this story highlighted by Aish. And if someone wants to assert that the Yemeni way is supposed to be "original" they certainly can't explain how the "change" got into the more widespread majority Megilla and when it did, why do you preclude hasgacha pratis or that it was "meant" to be that way in the megilla.

Once again axe-grinding and belittling Aish for no reason except that Smarya hates Orthodox Judaism and especially hates when non-Orthodox Jews begin to keep Orthodox practices.

Actually, Scott, many of the codes that McKay points out DO come near a significant phrase. He points this out if you actually read his paper.

To whomever is putting down the name "Scott", the poster may just be mimicking the blogger. He / She should use a real authentic Jewish name like Mordechai, Esther, Mendel, Mushke, Hyrcanus, or Sender.

He / She should use a real authentic Jewish name like Mordechai, Esther, Mendel, Mushke, Hyrcanus, or Sender.

(LOL)

Rebel: Then Shmarya could sing Elvis's immortal song: "Return to Sender."

maven: my apologies

Codebreakers: you realize that suffering is real at the time it occurs? Ditto evil.

>Statistically it is not amazing that the Nurembourg trials were prophesized in the Tanach 2350 yeasr ago?

>Okay it was just an accident.

What makes you think the miniscule letters in the megillah are a scribal tradition which goes back to the original meggilat esther text? It is not mentioned at all in the Talmud. Our earliest Bible text with such letters is from the 10th century. It seems to me that you have a gap of 14 centuries, with no evidence of these small letters in any source, to fill before you can claim that this is a prophecy from the megillah.

test

you may find it interesting to go to massechet Megillah on daf vav where it quotes Rabbi Yitzchak "Do not grant Esau the wicked desire of his heart, do not remove his nose ring,this refers to Germamya a royal prince of edom who if they would but go forth, would destroy the entire world." Rav Chama bar Chanina says "There are three hundred crowned princes in the Germamya of Edom." Firstly the resemblance of Germamya in the Talmud to the hebrew name for Germany Germanya is quite interesting, then the fact that this is written in massechet Megillah, interesting as well, then on daf vav, note the enlarged vav in the Megillah where the ten sons are mentioned and I went on the internet and found that in Germnay's history there was a time when Germany was composed of 300 territories http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire, also that amalek originates from Esau and Germamya is said to be of Esau and that if Germamya is unleashed it would destroy the entire world which was ofcourse the Nazi's objective.

Thanks JC

Our family has always been pro-israel, until jewish soldiers killed that little boy and his father, while trying to take cover behind some concrete road blocks. It has been a few years since then, but we will never forget this. In the years following this murder many more children and women have been killed/murdered by the israeli army, colonists and the israeli air force. We do not mention the name israel in our houses, we do not want anything to do with this slaughter. I'm just telling you the truth, I know you don't like the truth when it isn't in your favour, but nevertheless here it is.

uh...mike? that has been disproven in a court of law in France.
the dad set it up as propaganda.
get informed.
who is cruel?

I took the trouble to obtain the German transcripts of the Nurenburg Trial (I'm fortunate to have access to a large research library). Julius Streicher has been clearly documented to have said "Purim Fest 1946". And many noticed this, and wrote about it afterwards. There was an American journalist present at the hanging, who wrote in his column that Julius Streicher was "showing off" his expertise in Judaism. Yes... everyone at the time understood exactly why Streicher said this. There is no mystery there. Of course it is a great thing that later a Torah scholar notices that the small letters in the megillah script, along with the large Vav (a graphical allusion to the gallows) interspliced with the 10 names of Haman's sons is the Hebrew date for 1946. Let everyone interpret this according to his own avodah, but this is an example of how we make the Megillah real. Hashem created us, and He does his job, and we do our job. One shouldn't use these things to manipulate someone "Oh, now you HAVE to BELIEVE". But for one who already has emmunah, this is yet another worthy endeavor in Torah study.

i was keen to see a cynics take on this event, and i have to say if that is the best you can do, this seeming "coincidence" has convinced me cos your arguments to refute it are crap!

open your eyes!

What a bunch of B.S. ...
For instance: Rabbi Weissmandel, zt"l, hi"D, had already been murdered in a nazi lager by the time of the Nuremberg trials...

For instance: Rabbi Weissmandel, zt"l, hi"D, had already been murdered in a nazi lager by the time of the Nuremberg trials..

False.

He survived the war and moved to Mount Kisco, NY. He remarried and had children. He lived at least into the 1950s.

Purim is coming, and you should be excited. What other Jewish holiday promotes drinking, shouting, silly costumes, and general rowdiness?I visited my mother in her old-age home and here they were; plenty of bnei-akiva boys with their knitted kippot dancing to the sounds of joyful purim songs. This is the meaning of Purim:to bring joy to people , specially to people in need .

I was looking for more info on this to speak about at my seudah... surprisingly, I found it here. What you wrote only confirms it. The small letters in the names of haman's sons are tav, shin, vav pointing to the Jewish year 5707, when the 10 nazis were killed! Of course I don't expect Hashem to give us an oen miracle and throw words in Julius Stretchier's mouth... he knew what Purim was, and it's no coincidence that 10 nazis were hung in the year predicted in the megillah with the 10 sons of Haman who were killed!

If failedmessiah.com wants to shed light lousy arguments made by people, that's fine... I think open discussion makes us stronger and understand why we believe what we believe. However, to argue against anything and everything just for the sake of arguing against it is silly and cheapens your other arguments, some of which have some merit.

Go ahead... write a document about any people on earth today and hide a code that no one will understand for 2000 years, that will predict the exact same event happening 2000 years in the future. Impossible because a) the same people won't be around as a people anymore, b) your prediction has 0% chance of coming true. Unless, of course, you're writing about the Jews who will be around and you're connecting to a larger source behind everything, the source being outside of time.

That the so-called Torah codes provide the same (or better) statistical results in phone books and in works like War and Peace seems to escape you.

The codes have been proven false.

Past that, our Judaism is not at all similar to the Judaism practiced by Jews when the Purim story supposedly happened.

Using your standard, we can say that stories that happened to the early Christians are repeated today to their descendants – even though the Christianity practiced today is not at all similar to the Christianity practiced almost 2000 years ago.

You need to separate the propaganda, the spin and the apologetics from the facts.

What haredim count on is that people like you aren't learned enough to do that.

Does anyone know where in Mein Kampf this appears? I want to use the quote but must say exactly where it is... and I sure don't want to buy the book to find out.

"I am embarked on a struggle to the death with the Jews for the hearts and minds of men. The Jews have inflicted two wounds on mankind. Circumcision for the body, and conscience for the soul. I am come to free mankind from their bondage."

I came to this link from "On Being Aished." All I needed to see was the pictures under "You might also like" to know that you hate Orthodox Jews. And how 'bout them ol' links to Failed Messiah that take your thinking to its Nth power.

It's true that not all Orthodox Jews are perfect. But you can take it to the bank that Torah Judaism, despite lapses of its adherents (and compared to the rest of humanity the number of lapses is microscopic), has given more to the world in terms of morality than any other people in the history of the world -- all because we know that it was given by the Creator of the whole universe, a one-time revelation, on Mt. Sinai.

I'm sorry I ever stumbled upon this page.

You know, normally i agree with a lot of your stuff that is based on, "FACT" (such as pedophilia, laundering of money etc) but you cannot fight the fact about the letters, and even if that mamzer had knowledge about jewish customs, its too much of a "coinsidence" the manner in which all happened.

The truth about nuremberg trials is that it all was planned by zionists,the judges, the translators the hang man ,the number of execution the date of execution all was set by zionists to prove that G-d will was behind like in the haman case.those have little mind knows it.

Shahid you don't know your history, fOR THE MOST PART THE early Zionists did not believe in G-D or organized religion.

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