Why The Jewish Burka?

Miraim Shaviv, who for a time blogged on the iconic Protocols blog, and then at Bloghead, has been for quite some time the comments editor at the Diaspora's iconic Jewish newspaper, the venerable London Jewish Chronicle.

In a column this week for the Chronicle, Miriam explains why she thinks haredi women, albeit in yet small numbers, are wearing the burka:

So how did we reach a situation where a group of women believes that this sick behaviour is actually a Jewish ideal? … No rabbis publicly condone it. Several [burka-wearing haredi] women quoted by Ha’aretz complained they were harassed and rejected by their peers.

And yet, the “frumka” is the logical extension of two clear trends in the frum world.

Firstly, standards of modesty are becoming increasingly stringent and require increasing effort to follow. A CD recording by a top rabbi from Lakewood, New Jersey, for example, reportedly asks women not to swing their arms while they walk and not to allow their daughters to wear colourful banana-clips in their hair. Women know that if they wear skin-coloured stockings, they must include a seam so it is clear they are not bare-legged. Schoolgirls do not wear shiny shoes that could “reflect their underwear”.…

Secondly, tznius, or modesty, has long moved from being about modest clothing to being about keeping women, and images of women, away from men.

Open a Charedi newspaper, and there are either no images of women, or they are blacked out.…a top rabbi in Bnai Brak asked women to leave before the end of shul so they did not mingle with men following davening; that same town has a street with separate sides for men and women…

Just last week, a sheitel shop in New York was boycotted for refusing to remove headshots of women wearing wigs from its window.

But since when is looking at women’s faces forbidden? It’s not.

The fact is that, in the Orthodox world today, women are already being pushed out of the public sphere. The rabbis may not understand the Pandora’s Box they have opened, but the jump from the Brooklyn sheitel store to the burka-wearers in Israel is not that great.

I think the answer is simpler than what Miriam proposes. What she writes is true, but I think the essence of the problem is really this – extremists run today's haredi society.

From its leading rabbis – Elyashiv, Shteinman and Alter (the Gerrer Rebbe) – to the curriculum in its yeshivot and seminaries, moderation is nowhere to be found.

The Chafetz Chaim ran a store and was a town rabbi.

Rabbi Shteinman is glorified as a man who has no idea how a credit card or modern banking works. He is not the rabbi of a town or city.

Rabbi Elyashiv has not yet met a moderate Orthodox rabbi he would not like to ban or a Modern Orthodox institution he would not like to take over or destroy. He, too, is not a town or city rabbi and has no practical knowledge of the day-to-day lives of non-haredi Jews.

50 years ago, following the majority halakhic opinion (unless your rabbi specifically held differently) was the gold standard of Orthodox observance.

Today, yeshivot compete with each other over the number and type of humrot, stringencies, they follow and teach, as much as over the quality of student they produce. And the gold standard for observance is not following the majority opinion – it is following the majority opinion along with as many minority opinions as possible, no matter the extra trouble or cost.

Yes, Jewish burkas are a direct outgrowth of haredi misogyny. In that, Miriam Shavivv is correct.

But that misogyny itself is a direct outgrowth of the rabid, regressive, self-indulgent fundamentalism that now rules haredism.

That fundamentalism is the haredi Volvo, the haredi $1500 custom tailored suit, the haredi status symbol par excellence.

It is this generation's curse. It may very well be its downfall, as well.

UPDATE: A Mother in Israel has posted three pictures of Jewish women in burkas at a haredi wedding in Israel. The women do not look as if they are being ostracized.

Comments

[Yochanan Lavie]

I heard that in Passaic, NJ, it is now the common custom for women to wear only black and white, like the men. This is only second hand, but a reliable person says she notices this trend there.

[pure sphardic]

It's hard to say this is because the orthodox Judiasm is led by Extremists. It's true, but in this particular case, the idea evolved from simple woman, no politics, no rabbis involved. It can escalate to a problem once we have Rabbis preaching to do this, but it seems unlikely, since there isn't too much money involved.
Hechsher on Burkas? Never know

[Nachman]

I dunno guys, if she's three hundred pounds with a face that looks like it was kicked by a mule then I'm all for it!

[sephardiman]

yes, thats all these freaks need. more sexual suppression and repression. get ready for a whole new generation needing therapy.

[Ari]

This will signal the downfall of the Charedi, and good riddance. I cannot believe in any way, shape, or form, that Hashem is smiling down on them. They have consistently perverted and mangled Hashem's word, making it almost impossible for anyone but themselves to be "torah-true" in the way that all religious powers seek to be the sole arbiter of G-d's will.

We are commanded to build a fence around the Torah. They have built so many fences that they not only keep the Torah in, but keep the people OUT.

[sephardiman]

haradi judaism= an ashkenazic invention.

[EileenK]

First, the costume in question is not a burkah. It's a hijab or a hijab plus niquab (face covering) or with the long cloak, an abaya.

Most of the pictures are of women wearing big hijabs and tent dresses. Since many Israeli women already wear scarves and some wear maxi-skirts or dresses, what's the big deal here? As long as they're not making any one else wear it, it's their wardrobe.

I know, Jews tie their scarves up in the back so they don't look like Moslem women who let their scarves lie flat. Hijabs also tend to be a bit bigger.

I would think a flat scarf or even a double scarf (or a scarf and hood) would be easier to wear than having to master those complicated knots. It's also easier to wear a maxi-skirt (or a mid-calf one) than one just below the knees (more freedom of movement.)

There's no uniform for modest women in Judaism, even among haredi. I personally think having to wear a wig all the time is gross. From what I've heard from women who've had to wear them for theater or due to illness is that they are very uncomfortable. Also they're expensive and one has only one or two and one sweats into them with eacch wearing. That can't be too sanitary. A drawer full of head scarves (pick your size and style), offers more variety and is cleaner.

I'm not saying I'd ever adopt the abaya and tent dress, but if I did have to cover my head, I'd consider some kind of big flat lying scarf, though I'd definitely have one in every color of the rainbow. No one is making me give up my red or orange sweaters.

I think the fashion police need to go find some other jobs.

[Dr Fred]

Extremism has no way of limiting itself and, as the old saying goes, "it's an ill wind that blows no good",It will self-destruct and sadly, people will be hurt, but perhaps that's the only way it can end.As the Pagans would have pointed out,go too far and Nemesis will destroy you.

[ML]

Yochanan, I live in Passaic and I have not noticed any woman starting to wear only black and white.

[huh?]

they are not being ostracized at the wedding,yes,
but it is one of their own daughters who is the kallah, so not so shocking.

they report being harassed by other hareidi people (maybe the hundreds of thousands they did not invite to their own wedding?)

We are commanded to build a fence around the Torah.

Interestingly, though, it was not HaShem who gave this command. There is no "build fences around my Torah" command.

They have built so many fences that they not only keep the Torah in, but keep the people OUT.

I agree.

It also pushes people away.

Imagine that someone plants a beautiful garden. Then they put up a fence to protect it. Then another fence a few feet out to protect the first fence. And so on and so on and so on. After a time, one ends up far far away from the garden, so that one can barely see it - if one can at all - standing outside a fence.

[goldstar]

EileenK, you're missing the point. I agree, people should be able to wear whatever they want. The problem is that once a trend becomes de rigeur in haredi circles, those who don't comply are harassed and humiliated by the "fashion police". (My personal experience with this was witnessing a middle-aged woman in seemingly innocuous clothing getting spat in the face by a group of haredi youths in Meah Shearim for some apparent-only-to-them defect in her outfit.)

Indeed, you state: "As long as they're not making any one else wear it, it's their wardrobe." Unfortunately, coercion is the haredi calling-card.

[yidandahalf]

This burka matter will become big business for clothing retailers. They will start pushing it and showing it and since it uses alot of cloth they stand to make some money. Before you know it burkas will be all the rage and who will be making the money? Looks like a win-win situation for the honcho crows. They could 'introduce' the burka and then sell it.

[LA-Z-Boy]

Isn't this something where we see that Chabad gor it right?
Whatever you may want to say about them, they have sensitivity to and an understandig of non-Chareidi Jews.

[A reader]

Why would this lead to harassment when no rabbonim have ever endorsed this or pushed for it? There is absolutely no precedent for this kind of dress being prescribed behavior. If anything, covering up the face too much might contradict Judaism. The article actually reflects women getting harassment FOR dressing like the Arabs, not for abstaining from the hijab.

I find it funny that all the men are freaking out over this as if it will be some covered-up-women epidemic that they won't be able to control... These women have free choice and are free to wear what they want.

[Malach Hamovies]

The "FRUMKA" - Jewish Burka will be the new chumra style in the coming years. Mark my words.

[Schmorgel (Borgel)]

Re: Yochanan and the other commenters who raised the issue of extreme stringency changing over time from a an abberant deviation to the norm and then being enforced...I acknowledge that this danger exists. However, if you try to stamp out this bizarre practice and force the women who adopt these extreme tzniut humrot to turn their backs on it by force by harassing them, it will only backfire, whether the surrounding society does it with Aravim HaChutza signs or the government attempts to enforce it, like Barry suggested they do in the earlier post. Use common sense. When Turkey banned Muslim women from wearing a tarha or hejab from civil service jobs, it only increased the attractiveness of it. So yeah, live and let live--and if and when any haredi fashion police try to enforce these modes on anyone else inside their communities or outside--the answer is simple: the people who are being told to dress this way or that always have the option to RESIST IT.

[yona loriner]

if thats how they wanna dress let them! what do u care for?

[Misnaged]

There's no whatsoever difference between Jewish Ultra-Orthodoxy or radical Islam. The only way to religious extremism is Orthodoxy no matter what religion is discussed.

[Barry]

The veil in all its forms: the hijab, niqab, jilbab, chador and burqa is a dramatic visual symbol of oppression, the inescapable fact being that the vast majority of women who cover their hair, faces and bodies do so because they have no choice. Women don't wear the burqa in Afghanistan because they like it; they wear it because they are afraid of being killed if they don't. Women haven't suddenly gone back to wearing the veil in Iraq because they're pious; they do it because women who are courageous enough to refuse, including a well-known TV presenter, have been murdered by Islamic extremists. Haredi women from Beit Shemesh to Kiryat Joel (and bus lines in between) know what to expect if they are considered not to conform to a fanatical interpretation of Tsnius

Intimidation and family pressure play a role in the strict fundamentalist identity imposed on them by fathers, uncles and brothers. Likewise it is no suprise that Pure Sphardic posted that "One very important fact, Rabbanit Bracha Benezri of Bet shemesh, one of the woman who wear these shawls, was brought to Chacham Ovadia Yosef by her husband. The husband wanted it.."

Some women may be telling the truth when they say they are covering their hair and faces out of choice, but that doesn't mean they haven't been influenced by relatives and male clerics. Just how prescriptive some Muslim men are on this subject was revealed when the principal of a major state funded Islamic academy in England, confirmed that even non-Muslim girls at his school would be expected to cover themselves. "We have a school uniform and that means wearing the hijab and the jilbab," he said.

Muslim women cover their faces as a "barrier" between men and women.

The veil in its various forms signals that women have conditional access to public space, allowed to participate in the world outside the home only if they follow certain rules. Islam isn't alone in this: for centuries, Christianity and Judaism laid down similar conditions but the Enlightenment, of which feminism is an integral part, successfully challenged such rigid divisions between the sexes. The problem is that the most high-profile form of Islam in the West and Judaism in Israel wants to reinstate those divisions; when women cover themselves, they are demonstrating their acceptance of an ideology that gives them fewer rights than men and an inferior place in society

Fundamentalists have major problems with sexuality and exhibit high degrees of sexual fear and disgust. Far from being a protection for women - it hasn't prevented alarming levels of rape in Afghanistan and Iraq - the veil protects men from casual arousal. It also establishes women as the sexual property of individual men - fathers, husbands and sons - who are the only people allowed to see them uncovered.

The practice of covering women is a human rights issue in two senses, not just as a symbol of inequality, but because accusations of racism, cultural insensitivity and Islamophobia are commonly used to silence its critics. But if I loathe the niqab and the burqa when I see women wearing them in Iraq and Afghanistan, it would be hypocritical to pretend I don't find them equally offensive in Beit Shemesh.

The 19th Amendment to the US Constitution was passed as recently as 1920. Why did women not aggitate for the vote until about century after the US republic was founded? The reason was that they consented to this situation since they did not know better and were conditioned by men to consider the idea of equality as being unnatural and immodest.

[R]

I always wanted one of those.
"that same town has a street with separate sides for men and women…"
Same as this statement! I so want to go there. Brilliant!
I always said they would have something like that. I know when i was in sem around the corner was the yeshivah and the other lubby sem girls were only allowed on one side of the street...I have no idea how that made any sense because the yeshivah was on one side and the dorm was on the other.
As for Rabbis banning all types of decent clothes and asking not to put their daughters in colourful headbands...wtf? There are some psychos running orthodoxy these days.
I am glad i don't listen to much these so called Rabbis have to say.

I am assuming only a very minor amount of women where this garb. I bet they want reductions when they go shopping in arab markets.

[Barry]

"When Judah saw her (Tamar), he thought her to be an harlot; because she had covered her face."

[YU GUY]

There are girls schools in Lakewood "Ir Hakodesh" that have rule regarding the length of 12 year old girls hair. If the length of a girls hair goes beyond her shoulder blades, the extra hair is cut off immediately. This is not based in halacha. There is no logical reason to say that a high school girl, or any girl, need to have hair of a certain length. Yet, these schools are considered to be the 'frummest' schools. My own cousins in Lakewood look at me, a fully orthodox jew, as the shabbos goy.

The issue at hand isn't that some people are going above and beyond the call of Judaism, but rather that they are taking Judaism, and perverting it. Where 50 years ago, or so I'm told, an orthodox girl could wear a skirt that just covered her knees and would be considered fully observant, the trend now would have right wing Judaism shun her as 'modern,' and look down on her in some ways. The skirt a girl can wear in a 'frum' lifestyle is now limited in many more ways. Denim, of course, is ossur. The skirt must cover until the ankles. It also can't be too long, except of course at a wedding. Color are frowned upon. These ideas all started small, and spread to the community as a whole.

THIS IS CRAZINESS! The indifference that I see here is proof that in 100 years, Judaism will be completely changed forever. Centrist ideals are fading, as people are shunned by the crazy-orthodox-fundamentals regime. This Burka seems like a small issue now, but everything starts small. It is another cancer growing inside the Jewish body. Eventually, it will grow in popularity and be adopted by Orthodoxy. We, the indifferent orthodox, are scaring away our less religious brethren. Hell, I'm petrified myself. I'm 22 now, and I fear I will not recognize the Judaism that my grandchildren will one day accept as centrist. I'm sure if my grandfather were alive now, he wouldn't recognize many of the practices as Judaism. Would Moshe???

These women should be put in cheirem. It is terribly sad to say that one should be punished for their garb, but in these cases, the action will lead to the perversion, and eventually the destruction, of Orthodoxy as we know it.

[Barry]

Schmorgel (Borgel) misunderstands my position in claiming that I wish the government to enforce some sort of dress code on these unfortunate women. As a democrat, I believe in the autonomy of the individual adult (even a female one) so that a woman should be allowed to dress as much or as little as she wants to(within decency), just as I am free to criticize her ignorance in so dressing. Likewise I would not force an adult Jehovah's Witness to have a blood transfusion to save his life because that would offend his autonomy.
Children however have no autonomy. They are in the guardianship of their parents and when in school their teachers are in locus parentis. The state will decide what the duty of guardianship entails. If the parents fail in the duty of guardianship, then the state must intervene to protect the child's interest as it sees fit. So children of Jehovah's Witnesses are given blood transfusions against their parents' wishes. If a child is dangerously anorexic or morbidly obese the state will intervene and ignore parents claims that both they and the child are happy in that situation. Likewise with education. The state requires guardians to ensure that children to be compulsorily educated because it wants it future generation to be well informed so they can make the right decisions when adult just as it requires guardians to ensure that their children are properly fed. Of course some children are fussy eaters and are thin whilst others are fat but the state will not intervene in a situation which whilst not ideal is not completely unacceptable (unlike childhood anorexia or morbid obesity).
I take the view that the situation is similar as regards education. It is the duty of a guardian to have his child educated as much as it is to have the child fed. There is a large middle ground as to what amounts to acceptable education just as there is a large middle ground to what amounts to acceptable nourishment. Accordingly as long as the state considers it reasonable, some schools may put an emphasis on some subjects more than others. There comes a point however where the standard of education is so poor that it cannot be considered education just as there comes a point when the standard of food provided to a child is so poor as not to be considered as proper feeding and the state must intervene as guardian of that child's interest over the parents objections. Haredi education (especially in Israel) is in that position. It falls well outside what can be considered as minimally acceptable by secular society and whether or not the Haredim like it, Israel is a secular state just as all Western states are. The Haredim believe that the purpose of education is to make ehrliche yidden and to suppress as heresy those ideas which have arisen since the age of enlightenment (including the position of women) some three hundred years ago. The secular view is that all ideas which reasonable people consider rational even if controversial are worthy of study even if these ideas are heretical to religious ideas. Haredi children are indoctrinated, not educated. It is an absolute scandal that Haredi children have absolutely no proper knowledge of how the modern world around them operates and that the Israeli and American judiciaries fail in their duties as ultimate guardians of childrens interests by intervening. Steve swims in the secular sea of American culture eating turkey on Thanksgiving yet wishes to have something as basic as the secular but heretical philosophy of the founding fathers kept from his children. As I said earlier, it is the purpose of education to sometimes teach children what their parents do not wish them to know. Do you honestly think that many even minimally educated women would agree to wear burkas or be segregated in buses or live in fear of being assaulted for not having a seam in their tights? Why do the taliban put so much effort in preventing girls education by destroying schools and murdering teachers? For the same reasons as Rabbi Schteinman wants girls to have the 'minimum of the minimum' education. Instead and on the contrary, whilst schools may not be able to achieve such a standard, they should at least aim to teach to 'the maximum of the maximum' of each child's educational development whether boy or girl. That is why I disagree with those that say that some vocational Bantu education should be made available to Haredim. If the secular part of education is not good enough for Ramat Aviv children then it is not good enough for Beit Shemesh children.
Nearly all the problems suffered by Haredi Judaism highlighted in this blog arise from ignorance of and rejection of modernity. Adults can choose for themselves to be ignorant and cover their ears and close their eyes. They must not be allowed to make that choice for their children.
I am sorry to repeat myself like some broken record on the issue of Haredi 'education' of children but I believe that this is the most important matter facing orthodox Judaism and the future of Israel today. I do not deny that the last 300 years of modernity since the Age of the Enlightenment are largely responsible for the steady decline in religious faith both Christian and Jewish and that these ideas could be considered heretical. However it is absolutely pointless to imagine that these developments can be ignored or suppressed (through indoctrination of children) or to claim that these developments have had no beneficial bearing on the course of human history and that with some effort, the clock can be turned back to the seventeenth century. The expression 'Chodosh Assur Min HaTorah' is a useless mantra against reality.

[Dr. Dave]

O.K. I think the problem is why do these women think that their bodies (created by Hashem) are sinful.

Could it be that mysoginistic Tannaim Have made statements to that effect!!

Gemara Shabbat 152 amud Aleph quotes a Braita that "a woman is like a container full of feces with an opening full of blood; but everyone runs after her!!"

Nice!

If a woman is pretty she shouldn't have to cover herself in a Burqua to keep some chazars from sinning!!

If you say that she must - it is like saying a rape victim brought the crime upon herself because of her clothing.

If I have a nice car, I shouldn't have to hide it and not drive it because you might be tempted to steal it!!

[YU GUY]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RdZb96qTr4

A victim of rape in Saudi Arabia got 6 months and 200 lashes for being provocative. This is right were the Jewish Burqa will lead Fundamental Judaism. We are NOT on the right path.

[Neo-Conservaguy]

YU Guy wrote:

"We, the indifferent orthodox, are scaring away our less religious brethren. Hell, I'm petrified myself. I'm 22 now, and I fear I will not recognize the Judaism that my grandchildren will one day accept as centrist. I'm sure if my grandfather were alive now, he wouldn't recognize many of the practices as Judaism. Would Moshe???"

It's unusual to see a younger generation YU Orthodox guy making these observations. You're correct to pose the question: "if my grandfather didn't know these practices, can they be legitimately required of myself?" It would seem "minchag avotainu" is only invoked for strictures these days; you had better not eat those beans on Pesach!

You can either fight the fight at YU - and good luck, because you'll need it - or perhaps you become a part of a potential solution and help bolster the more rational approaches to religious Judaism at Yeshivat Chovevei Torah or at the UTJ school in Teaneck. The good guys (and gals) need all the help they can get in this battle.

"These women should be put in cheirem. It is terribly sad to say that one should be punished for their garb, but in these cases, the action will lead to the perversion, and eventually the destruction, of Orthodoxy as we know it."

Already done; the moment your Orthodoxy became unable to roll with the changes, in true Jewish tradition, it was vulnerable to stagnation and regression. This is why many have fled that "movement" in areas outside of the major urban centers. Every Orthodox shul I can think of in my area has, at best, significantly diminished membership from the glory days 40-50 years ago. My Conservative shul is full of refugees from the local "Modern Orthodox" congregation.

[Yochanan Lavie]

"There are girls schools in Lakewood "Ir Hakodesh" that have rule regarding the length of 12 year old girls hair. If the length of a girls hair goes beyond her shoulder blades, the extra hair is cut off immediately."

This is like the religious Christian Lowood school in "Jane Eyre." A girl with naturally curly hair had it hacked off because it was considered vain. Meanwhile, the appalling conditions at the school are contrasted with the posh lifestyle of the hypocritical headmaster, Mr. Brocklehurst.

I wasn't sure about Passaic, so thanks to ML.

Schmorgel: Yes, counter-repression against the hijab makes it attractive. That's the case in Turkey and in France (school kids can't wear it). But I'm afraid it will become the new norm, be enforced on those who don't want it, etc. That seems to be the trend. We shouldn't make it illegal, but our so-called leaders should make it clear that this is not normative practice, nor should it be.

[Yochanan Lavie]

A small handful of Muslim girls wear a hijab at the public high school I teach in. (Most of the Muslim kids I teach are secular, and don't cover their hair). They even wear it to (co-ed) gym class! But Israel ain't America. It is understood here that religion is a private affair.

[Ari]

YU Guy:

That was a wonderful, well-written, thought-provoking post. Keep standing up for the Judaism that you grew up with, and you won't go wrong. With a sibling at YU currently, I hear tidbits here and there, and the place needs people like you.

[L]

These people are practicing fences, not torah

[L]

These people are practicing fences, not torah

[Elireb]

Reading these modesty discussions based on this new extreme mode of non Jewish dress by a "rebbetzin", prompts me to recommend a new thoughtful, compelling and contemporary book by Eliyahu Safran. "Sometimes You are What You Wear" (Xlibris) is a breath of fresh air that sheds new light on an old issue. Get the word out - Jews of all groupings would be stimulated to think in Jewish and rational terms about themselves and modesty. www.modestybook.com

[mother in israel]

See my blog for an update. Will link to this post soon.

These people are practicing fences, not torah

Good and insightful observation, L, sums it up perfectly.

[Michael]

Lavie, as a member of the Passaic community, I am not sure your statement is entirely correct.

However, what is true is that Passaic is marching towards the right faster and faster as years go by. The Modern Orthodox community here is shrinking, and the picture you painted of out town might be true not too far down the road.

[BecauseHashemSaidSo]

If everyone here really was interested in doing what Hashem wanted, they wouldn't care what the Chareidim/Ultra-Orthodox/Right-wingers are saying. Why are you saying that Judaism is getting more right wing? Are you defining Judaism by the Chareidim? I think some people are a little insecure in their religiosity here. If you really had confidence in your level of "frumkeit", you would do what you're supposed to do and ignore what some hacks are saying.
About the topic at hand, the laws of tzniut are not a set of criteria to meet. Yes, there are certain areas in which it's black and white. However, the common translation for tzniut is modesty. Modesty means not calling attention to yourself. If everyone is wearing a mid-calf skirt and you wear a longer one, that is not tzniut, because it calls attention to yourself. If extra long hair calls attention, it is not tzniut. The Shulchan Aruch discusses a woman wearing a bright red dress. This is not a discussion of covering elbows, or knees. This is a different set of criteria. And this does not only apply to women. It applies to men also. However, women have a natural attraction so they have a little head start in making heads turn. It's only normal that they have to be a little more careful. And if you think that it's not fair, take it up with your Designer. I think that if in the society that these women live in their dress makes them stick out more, than their plan is backfiring. However, if where they live they are lowering their profile, they choose to be more strict with themselves, and mind your own business. You're right, in Passaic it would be not tzniut. But I think that everyone here feels a little insecure that they know that these women are worried about whether they are REALLY being tzniut or not, while most of us just pay lip service.

[Shmarya]

I think that everyone here feels a little insecure that they know that these women are worried about whether they are REALLY being tzniut or not, while most of us just pay lip service.

No. People do not want to live in a cult. Judaism was not meat to be a cult. Haredi extremists make all Orthodoxy more cultlike by the day.

[SnipeFu]

I read all this and I get scared too. I don't want to see the Charedi world descend deeper into the pit of chumrahs.

If you look at a picture of chabadiks from 50 years ago, just as an example, they wore different clothes, different hats, each had their own style and manner.

Look at them today. Black and white suit, untucked shirt, same hat scrunched the same way. Absolute conformity. No individualism.

And it seems like it's only getting worse with all the garbage chumrahs coming out these days for women.

But who can wake them up? Who has the power and authority to stand up and say, "enough madness!?"

[Deborah Shaya]

There is No codified Halacha that a married woman must cover her hair totally and constantly whenever she steps out of her house.

The Halachah has been MISinterpreted. When the Halachah refers to "Covering hair," it does not mean "Cover your hair with hair!" and "constantly for life." The Halachah is that:

A married woman is required to cover her hair when:

(1) she lights the candles to welcome in Shabbat and Yom Tov – lechavod Shabbat ve Yom Tov, and

(2) when she goes to the Synagogue, because that is the place of Kedusha.

The Halacha does not require anything more from married women. This is the true interpretation of the Halacha.

The misinterpretation of the Torah is completely Assur, and a twisting of the Torah.The Torah must remain straight.

[Deborah Shaya]

In ancient times, a woman would only cover her hair upon entering the Beit Hamikdash.Similarly for the Sotah-otherwise she would not be required to cover her hair ordinarily, day to day.

It is very important for people to know and realise that when a married woman covers her hair with 'Real Hair' the woman is covering herself with 100% Tumah. This is totally against the Torah.

Nothing could be more nonsensical than for a Jewish woman to cover her hair with someone else's hair -who was not Jewish as well!She can never fully be sure that this 'hair' has not come from meitim-despite any guarantee by the seller.This 'real hair' is doubly and in some circumstances, triply Tumah.

1.It will contain the leftover dead hair cells from another person - however much it has been treated, the tumah is still there.

2.This other person (likely to be a non-Jew who most likely was involved in some kind of Avodah Zarah) may have eaten bacon, ham, lobster etc, all of which are totally forbidden as unclean and non-kosher foods in Halacha.

3.If the woman happens to be the wife of a COHEN, then she is bringing her husband into close contact and proximity with meitim and Tumah Every day, and throughout their married life. This is clearly strictly against the Torah.

[Deborah Shaya]

There is nothing more degrading and demeaning to a woman than to make her cover her hair FOR LIFE upon marriage.It is an abhorrent practice.

Any man who makes such a ridiculous demand on his wife, or wife-to-be, should similarly also be required by his wife to wear: long white stockings, even in the summer; a fur streimel; grow a long beard; wear a black hat and coat constantly, and cover his face when he speaks to his wife.Wigs -"la perruque"- were merely a fashion item in the time of Louis XIV-they are not for the Jewish woman!

Rabbi Menachem Schneeersohn tz”l, gave the directive that a married woman must cover her head with a “sheitel.” This needs to be corrected. Rabbi Schneersohn a"h, was a Tzaddik, – but on this – he was, unfortunately not correct.

It is extremely unhealthy and unhygienic for a woman to cover her hair constantly.The hair needs oxygen to breathe.A woman's hair will lose its natural beauty and shine, she may have scalp problems, some of her hair may fall out, she may get headaches, and she may end up cutting it short like a man, when she always wore it long, in order not to have too much discomfort from her hair covering.

Do you think that HaKadosh Baruch Hu commanded this of women? I can assure you that He did not.The commmandments are not meant to cause so much repression and oppression in women.Was Chava created with a wig? Of course not! Did she start wearing a wig? Of course not!

Please Wake Up.

Use the spark of intelligence that Hakadosh Baruch Hu gave to you and blessed you with.

And give your wig back to your husband if you wear one.

[Deborah Shaya]

1. To all the women who are wondering about the sources:

We have all been created, "Betselem Elokim" - "in the image of Elokim."
This means that we have been given something called "intelligence." The source is the very first Parsha, Bereishit - 1:27. It is time that people use the spark of intelligence and Kedusha with which Hashem has blessed them.

If your rabbi will tell you to go and jump into the depths of a glacier, presumably you would do that too – and give me a source for it?

“According to the Zohar”, I should also be covering my hair with a wig when I have a bath. “According to the Zohar and the Gemara” and all the sources that have misinterpreted the Halachah, and MIStranslated the Zohar, I should also have been born with a WIG on my head.

These sources and translations are incorrect, as they have deviated very far from the true and correct interpretation, of the Halachah.

[Deborah Shaya]

2.Remember that the Jewish women are very, very holy. They are much more holy than the men. Look at the exemplary behaviour of the women at Har Sinai.

The women never sinned at the Eigel, and so are greatly elevated. Many of the men, unfortunately, ran after a calf made out of a lump of gold – after they had just been given the Torah, and seen the greatest of all Revelations. The women refused to give their gold for the avodah zarah of the men.

The women were greatly elevated after such a wonderful display of Emunah, and they are regarded very highly in Shamayim.

That is why women are not even required to pray. They can pray at home on their own. Nor do women have to make up a minyan. That is how holy the Jewish women are. Men have to pray 3 times a day to remind them of their Creator.

The men are telling the women to put the hair of a non-Jewish woman who may have eaten things like snakes and sharks and alligators, and has worshipped in churches, Buddist temples or Hindu temples : on their own Heads. They had better wake up.

If the men don’t want to wake up to the truth, and the true interpretation of the Halacha, the women will wake them up – whether they like it or not.

3. Many righteous women influenced their husbands for the good at the Chet Haeigel and at the time of Korach.

It was these righteous women who succeeded in bringing their husbands back to their senses.

And because of these great women, the lives of their husbands were saved. Those men therefore turned away from the madness of avodah zarah, and the rebellion of Korach against Hashem's choice of Aharon, as Cohen HaGadol.

[Deborah Shaya]

4. Look at the Jewish women in history, and remember how holy they are.

(a) Yaakov, who was the greatest of the Avot, came to marry the 2 daughters of Lavan, Rachel and Leah. Lavan was not exactly a tzaddik. Yaakov went to Lavan, of all people, to marry his 2 daughters – not 1 daughter, but his 2 daughters. Nothing could be greater than that.

(b) Rut, who came from Moav, became the ancestor of David Hamelech.

(c ) Batya, the daughter of Paroh, was given eternal life because she rescued Moshe from the river. No one could have been more evil than Paroh.

(d) Devorah, was a Neviah, and also a Judge.

Women who came from such adverse backgrounds, were able to become builders of Am Yisrael. That is how holy the women are, and how much more elevated they are than the men.

This was never the case with men. It never happened the other way round.

Don't tell me it is holy for me to wear a WIG! Hair over my own hair? This is ridiculous!

Similarly, don’t tell me it is holy for me to plonk a permanent head covering on my head for the rest of my life. This is equally vile.

Please Wake Up.

Use the spark of intelligence that Hakadosh Baruch Hu gave to you and blessed you with.

And give your wig back to your husband if you wear one.

5. Remember: Not a single “dayan” or “rabbi” has the slightest bit of interest in correcting the situation for the women. Therefore, the women will have to correct the situation................for ..................themselves.

Whether you wish to accept the correction – which is true – is up to you. Are you going to live by the truth? Are you going to use the spark of intelligence that Hashem gave to you and all women? Or are you going to follow rabbis and dayanim who tell you to wear a wig in a Heat Wave – and you thank them for it as well?

[William Dwek]

The next things the bloody "rabbis" will come up with is to tell the woman to wear a CARPET on her head. Not a sheitel AND a hat, but a Carpet. Or you could go for 5 shaitels on your heads and a rug.

And do you know what the Jewish woman will say to her husband?
"Yes, husband! I am now wearing a carpet on my head!"

You women must either be extremely thick, or petrified.

[charles soper]

The niqab sends a strong signal. Gen .38.15.
See here for some more data www.strateias.org/niqab.htm.
I am a gentile Christian, by the way.