Chabad Rabbi Calls for Murder of Olmert, Ramon, Livni, Others – Crowd of Rabbis Cheers, Part 2

Last week in front of a cheering crowd of fellow rabbis, many of them Chabad-affiliated, Rabbi Wolpe called for the murder of Prime Minister Olmert and other government officials. Rabbi Ariel Sokolovsky, the extreme Chabad messianist, has been urging me to print Rabbi Sholom DovBer Wolpe's "clarification."

Sokolovsky supports Rabbi Wolpe and his call for murder.

What is this clarification? This, from Chabad.info:

Rabbi Shalom Dov Wolpe said Thursday that the comments he made at the Tuesday conference were twisted and taken out of context. In calling for the execution of state leaders by legal means, he was not calling for vigilante violence, he explained, but rather calling on the police to implement the law. Rabbi Wolpe wrote that he believes violence against a fellow Jew is unacceptable, but that law enforcement has the right and responsibility to enforce the law.
   
One of Israel's laws prohibits providing assistance to Nazis, he explained, and Muslim terrorist groups are the Nazis of our day. If the government provides terrorists with aid, he reasoned, then the government has violated the law and its members must suffer the consequences, which include the death penalty.

Rabbi Wolpe emphasized that he was calling for any such punishments to be carried out in a legal manner.

Of course, the Knesset, which wrote and passed those laws, and the courts, which are charged with their enforcement, do not agree with Rabbi Wolpe.

Rabbi Wolpe is a despicable person. He should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, as should his fellow rabbis who aide him.

Download rabbi_wolpe_chabad.info.pdf

Comments

[sephardiman]

wolpe is a crazed messianist who is doing more damage than good to the settler cause. i am not a follower of chabad, or chassidim, neither do i believe in kaballah but only an idiot would say that the 'west bank' doesnt belong to the jews just as much as the rest of israel does.

[Whole Lotta Kugel]

dude,how did you get kabalah in there?

[avi]

You obviously have not seen the talkbacks on Arutz7 on this topic.

They are overwhelmingly supportive of R. Wolpe (imo 97%) and at the same time overwhelmingly critical of the OU.

Regards,

Avi

p.s nice improvement on the webpage.

[Whole Lotta Kugel]

the best thing to do with these black hatted mouldy old guys would be to just throw a WHOLE LOTTA MOTHBALLS at them. they wouldn't hang around long after that. just follow them wherever they go with mothballs.

[Ariel Sokolovsky]

B"H
It seems though that you'd have to change the Israeli attorney general as Manachem Mazuz doesn't seem to be that eager as yourself to prosecute this case and other cases that involve speech.
He even declared during the disengagement that "was no proof that the statements of the rabbis and other Oslo opponents had led to Rabin's assassination." see: Mazuz checking Chabad rabbi's 'traitor Olmert' statements for incitement. http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1198517289263&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[Misnaged]

"Rabbi" Wolpe Y"S preaches the definitely dead Shabtai Tzvi of the 20th century as Messiah King and thus he should be cut off the people of Israel. Furthermore he advocates violence against democratically elected governers of the state of Israel and because of this he should be absolutely deported.

[Dave]

I wish we would all get over this person-Mashiach thing. If everyone believed in Rambam's view of Mashiach, it would be fine. But unfortunately the wilder interpretations of the Mashiach lead to Avodah Zarah. What's the difference between MM Shneerson and Jesus? Not a heck of a lot. So because of all this, we should say "only a Messianic age, but no person Mashiach". Otherwise we're looking at a sector of Judaism become haredi- pseudo Christians, in "Jewish" clothing.

[Sephardiman]

Well what else is new? Unfortunately, this will take us to the same bad place we were in 13 years ago when Yitzhak Rabin was murdered. Perhaps a good start would be for the Arutz 7 website to be shut down.

[lakewoodshmuck]

you love wolpe and his ilk like a cat loves mice.

it gives you something to do.

[Bilaam's Donkey]

It's called free speech. Funny how liberals like freedom, except when they don't. Wolpe has been clear that he's not calling for vigilante violence. He has every right to express his views, however insane they are, regarding the supposed need to prosecute Israeli government officials.

[Shmarya]

Actually not.

Free speech does not mean one call call for murder, rape robbery, looting, pillaging and the like or to go outside the democratic system. Countries, including the US, have sedition laws that outlaw calls for revolution, undermining the democratic process, etc. So does Israel.

Freedom of speech comes with an obligation to speak responsibly.

RAbbi Wolpe crossed the line. He should be prosecuted immediately.

[sephardiman]

i think lubavich has done allot of damage-albeit inadvertently- to the settler cause.
The lithuanians were much more supportive of the settler movement in the past (after all the Rabbis Kook and most of Merkaz Harav were litvaks for all practical purposes). all of that changed with the famous Shach-Schneersohn spat. With recrimination on all sides, the lithuanians made a point to oppose everything chabad supported. And the more chabad supported eretz israel hashleima, the more the lithuanians continued to rail against it. the results are tacit and ourtight lithuanian support for oslo, disengagement etc.

thats my theory

[sephardiman]

also i forgot to add that all those circumstances also led to the cozying of relations between the lithuanians and groups like satmar (my enemies enemy is my friend).

[Yochanan Lavie]

Sephardiman: I agree with your analysis.

In my opinion (not that you asked)one side is messianic in that they unrealistically want to build communities in the midst of a hostile population. That party thinks somehow God will provide, even thought he sages warn us not to rely on miracles. The other party is utopian in that they think torah study will magically protect us against anything. It doesn't matter how miniscule or indefensible the Oslo borders would be, or the stated (and acted upon) genocidal intentions of our foes. Give money to yeshivot and all is right with the world.

I wish someone would revive the Alon Plan. Israel would annex Jerusalem, the Jordan Valley, and some of the Samarian highlands abutted the vulnerable (and heavily populated) coastal plan. The Arabs would get everything else- given to the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, which demographically and culturally is a de facto Palestinean state (but has the desire, know-how, and ruthlessness to smash the radicals- and seems to be sincere about peace w/Israel).

(Whatever one thinks of the morality of the Kahane solution- deportation of Arabs- it is never going to happen. No country can exist anymore in isolation and Israel can barely get away with defending itself, let alone population transfer).

Meanwhile, both secular and "religious" political horsetraders sell Israel down the river for trief pork-barrel perks.

[Yosef ben Matitya]

from part 1
"the name of a famous traitor" ?!
josefus flavius a traitor? what traitor?
he was never a 'min'.
the real traitors were the various rebbes of europe who told their people to stay behind and saved their own skins, either to escape to america which they had disparaged to their poor "flock" or to the 'zionist entity' on which they still spit while hailing it's enemies.
yosef ben matitya, was a kosher jew, who fought the occupier, when he had no choice left, he declined to commit suicide. in my opinion he did the right thing. he always defended judaism in his writings and kept a jewish way of life and identity.
give him to me anytime over the renegade idolaters we come across. he was a pragmatic and intelligent jew who recorded much of the jewish history that was otherwise blotted by uneducated fanatics the spiritual heirs of which still use his writings. i think we ought to be grateful to him. even caesar to whom he surrendered provided him with a jewish wife and as such acknowledged and showed respect to his judaism.
the current zionist narrative does not like him for the same reasons it finds heroes in the defenders of massada. while i always acknowledge the importance of the zionist enterprise and feel indebted to it, i disagree with it's attitude to the defenders of massada (suicide, is jewishly, a bad decision) and josefus.

[Yosef ben Matitya]

sefardiman ,
"twist around"? what did you exactly find twisted?
"2 can play that game"? while i am not playing a game, i look forward to see you twisting verses in a way that will suit you.

PS:(did u sign fool? and is your name descriptive of a dish or of a state of mind?)

[avi]

Sephardiman,

You really believe that the "lithuanians" would cut off their nose so-to-speak just
because of baseless hatred for the Rebbe? (Shach-Schneersohn spat)

The fact is, that these rabbis were bribed by the gov't, as the Rebbe stated many times.

This has been proven time and time again over the years and is now so blatant,
that it has fueled a disgust for all Chareidi Jews, and has made a mockery of Torah.

Just look at the news today. $ha$ and EuroTJ can't jump high enough to sell out Israel.

Regards,

Avi

[avi]

Sephardiman,

You really believe that the "lithuanians" would cut off their nose so-to-speak just
because of baseless hatred for the Rebbe? (Shach-Schneersohn spat)

The fact is, that these rabbis were bribed by the gov't, as the Rebbe stated many times.

This has been proven time and time again over the years and is now so blatant,
that it has fueled a disgust for all Chareidi Jews, and has made a mockery of Torah.

Just look at the news today. $ha$ and EuroTJ can't jump high enough to sell out Israel.

Regards,

Avi

[Yosef ben Matitya]

"The fact is, that these rabbis were bribed by the gov't, as the Rebbe stated many times." sez avi.
"fact? said the rebbe?" sounds like lashon hara to me! - many times you say!- not surprising coming from a megalomaniac choteh umachatee.
chabad choses who will bribe them.
wealthy people is the specification! the deeper the pockets, the better they are. no matter who, good bad, stolen money or not. jews or gentiles. (which they invest in deceiving). like the medieval churches, they absolve donnors of sin. they don't run for office because they know that free sufganiot, calls for subversion and violence do not add up to seats in the knesset.
at the same time, they are actually, anti israeli and their eretz haqodesh was transposed to crown heights r'l.
their so called rebbe never visited israel, because he knew that people with the type of his "vaunted" scholarship are a dime a dozen in israel.
"it has fueled a disgust for all Chareidi Jews, ....."
why? does avi count himself as a jew ? how? I find his own clique's deceiptful ways disgusting. are they ever able to utter a straightforward truth?

shas and utj which he slanders, 'earned' their seats in the knesset by the ballots of those who elected them.
the same cannot be said about the minim who go around lying to all and sundry about how great they are and how the dead of montefiore cemetery is the leader of the generation. we have a word for this in israel: fikhsa

[Paul Freedman]

love the new website look--on "execution" vs "murder"--there's a couple of Jewish jokes in their somewhere with the punchline:

"Whewww, *that's* what you meant--for a while there I was worried"

peace & luv

[R]

Whatever the rebbe said, must be truth.

[Schmorgel (Borgel)]

Yohanan, you are right vis a vis the Allon Plan. It should be done de jure, with a Knesset act proclaiming those areas to be retained by Israel as territory where Israeli law applies (as was done with the Golan), i.e., as sovereign territory of Medinat Yisrael, and presented as a fait accompli with or without Israel's "negotiating partner's" approval.(Which, needless to say, will be guaranteed not to be forthcoming.) The Hashemite Kingdom will not be willing to take back the West Bank, Israel missed an opportunity in 1986 to negotiate with King Hussein, and he renounced any claim to the West Bank a year later and the 1st intefadeh subsequently broke out. The Arabs of Yehuda and Shomron should then be free to establish their sovereign state if they wish, or seek anenxation to Jordan, if they wish, or whatever they want to do, in any area that Israel relinquishes, and they can call it "Falastin" or "Majnuniya" or whatever they want to call it. Israel should not seek to negotiate with them further for diplomatic recognition, exchange of ambassadors or the like, but they can have their state, if they really want it. They will of course continue to demand the return of all territories taken by Israel since 1967 (at a minimum-obviously they truly demand all of "Palestine" from "the river unto the sea") but they need to know it won't be forthcoming. If they continue to launch rocket attacks and use Israel's "continued occupation" of territories taken in June 1967, such as East Jerusalem, Gush Etzion, Maaleh Edumim, Israel must respond in a much harsher way than it has with the provocations from Gaza. Moreover, the separation barrier must be made even more permanent. But this must also entail the immediate dismantling of any settlements (sadly, this will include Hevron) that don't fall within the new borders of Israel. If need be, the IDf will have to do much more head-smashing, tear-gassing and water-cannoning than it did in Gush Katif to evacuate the WB settlements. Naturally, the "civilized world" will condemn Israel's "unilateral annexation" and Israel will be rent internally by the images of the foced evacuation of Jewish families from their homes (gam ze yaavor) but Israel needs to simply state--"Hey, they wanted a state--they can have it now--we've evacuated many more settlements to show our good faith. They want more?! They won't be getting any more." If a Palestinian government that arises in these areas wishes to establish peaceful diplomatic and trade arrangements with Israel despite not getting all of the territries, wonderful (but not bloody likely). At any rate, they can demand the return of those areas return and have diplomatic relations (if that's what they want) just as Japan still claims legal sovereignty over the Kurile Islands (which Russia has controlled since the end of WW2) and yet Japan and Russia still have diplomatic and peceful relations. If that's what they want, then yofi, Israel shiould respond in kind. But Israel should expect no such overture from them, nor should Israel seek it. Israel can obtain peace between itself and the Palestinian Arabs and the other Arabs, just as the United States currently enjoys peace with Castro's Cuba and South Korea has with North Korea. I think that such an arrangement is the best possible scenario for the foreseeable future. If this is not done and if the status quo continues, and if Israel listens to the delusional voices emanating from the settler's movement which refuses to countenance any withdrawal from any part of "Eretz Yisrael ha Sheleima" they will create the binational Palestinian state, which would soon become the Islamic Republic of Palestine with Sharia Law and dhimmi status for any Jews that they permit to remain.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Schmorgel: Thanks. You said it better than I. Also delusional are the "Peace Now, No Matter What, or We'll Throw a Tantrum" crowd. They think if only Israel retreated to what Abba Eban called the "Auschwitz Borders" the Palestineans will sing "Kumbiya" with us. We need a leader who will be tough and unsentimental about Israel's realistic security needs. Unfortunately, no one has the betzim.

[Avi]

Yosef ben Matitya,

"sounds like lashon hara to me!"

Not at all since it was public knowledge (albeit to a select minority) Now it's so widespread, it's taken for granted.

Furthermore, haven't most of the bloggers here condemned hiding behind
the "lashon hara" facade when larger issues are at stake?

"megalomaniac choteh umachatee"
That is actually real lashon hara, al pi Torah and you need to beg the Rebbe's forgiveness.

"his "vaunted" scholarship are a dime a dozen in israel"
I guess that explains why thousands of scholars from Israel consulted him in Torah.

"shas and utj which he slanders, 'earned' their seats in the knesset."
True. So what?

The rest of your diatribe is childish.
We have a word for this in America: disturbed

Regards,

Avi

[Lev]

YBM, actually "fikhsa" seems to be Russian "Creole" word originally.
Otherwise, you are basically right.
Times change, nothing changes...

[Lev]

Sephardiman, don't forget that Chabad never cooperated with other Orthodox, even way before Hakimat Hamedina(besides quid pro quo/gelt things(heard from a mashichist)); Lubavithcher CHILDREN are taught vicious lies about Rabbi Karelitz, Rabbi Shach, of course, Rabbi Kotler.
If these people, who look and even dress in similar to Lubavitchers' manner, are mortal enemies, then what about The Duly Chosen and Sworn Government of the Jewish DEMOCRATIC State of Israel?!
Lakewood S., you are lucky member of the ONLY Jewish Community where establishment of Chabad temples is forbidden, so you are the only ones who can keep Wolpo/es away!

[Thothal, Budapest]

To Shmarya, Shepardiman & Co
1. You doesn't seem to understand the difference between calling for murder and calling for enforcement of the Law of the Land. It is common sense that gallows are tools for the latter. Moreover it should be common knowledge that - according your Penal Code 97(b) & 100 combined with State Law #29 - the mere intention to withdraw from any area of Israel proper or of the Territories declared as "Occupied" constitutes the crime of treason.
2. The analogy with Groucho is spurious because a) he didn't call for electric chair b) Nixon never intended to secede Texas to Mexico c) the Constitution of the latter doesn't contain any paragraph about the annihilation of the USA.
3. Of course impeachment in Israel - even for a MP with approval rating in single digits - is out of question because a) the MKs are answerable only to the party bosses b) of the necessity of continous horse-trading between the said parties.(The culprit is your system of voting for party slates instead of individual candidates according the principle of proportional representation.)

[Shmarya]

You doesn't seem to understand the difference between calling for murder and calling for enforcement of the Law of the Land. It is common sense that gallows are tools for the latter. Moreover it should be common knowledge that - according your Penal Code 97(b) & 100 combined with State Law #29 - the mere intention to withdraw from any area of Israel proper or of the Territories declared as "Occupied" constitutes the crime of treason.

Simply false.

No one makes this claim EXCEPT for Wople and Co. The Supreme Court, the Knesset, the actual Knesset members who WROTE that law, etc., all disagree with you and Wolpe.

But what most of these people also agree on is that WOLPE did violate sedition laws.

Wolpe should be tried. If convicted, he should be punished to the fullest extent of the law – including, if applicable, the very gallows he so loves.

[Thothal, Budapest]

1. What you saying is essentially this: Rabbi Wolpe called for the application of some - albeit misunderstood - law. Calling this sedition would have been even in the Soviet Union a bit thick - execept of course under Stalin.

2. Penal Code 97(a)
"Any person who committed an act with the intention of harming the sovereignty of the country, an act which may cause harm to the sovereignty of the country, shall be sentenced to death or life in prison."
Penal Code 97(b)
"Any person who intentionally allowed any part of land to be removed from the sovereignty of the country or added to the sovereignty of another country, an act which will bring to that, shall be sentenced to death or life in prison."
Jewish State Law #29 Article 1
"Any law applying to the whole of the State of Israel shall be deemed to apply to the whole of the area including both the area of the State of Israel and any part of Palestine which the Minister of Defense has defined by proclamation as being held by the Defense Army of Israel."

3. I think the above laws are very easy to interpret like the Rabbi did. (But who I am to know being neither lawyer nor jewish nor aware the difference between the Chabad, the Lubawitscher or any other Hareidi School of Thought.)

[Thothal, Budapest]

1. What you saying is essentially this: Rabbi Wolpe called for the application of some - albeit misunderstood - law. Calling this sedition would have been even in the Soviet Union a bit thick - execept of course under Stalin.

2. Penal Code 97(a)
"Any person who committed an act with the intention of harming the sovereignty of the country, an act which may cause harm to the sovereignty of the country, shall be sentenced to death or life in prison."
Penal Code 97(b)
"Any person who intentionally allowed any part of land to be removed from the sovereignty of the country or added to the sovereignty of another country, an act which will bring to that, shall be sentenced to death or life in prison."
Jewish State Law #29 Article 1
"Any law applying to the whole of the State of Israel shall be deemed to apply to the whole of the area including both the area of the State of Israel and any part of Palestine which the Minister of Defense has defined by proclamation as being held by the Defense Army of Israel."

3. I think the above laws are very easy to interpret like the Rabbi did. (But who I am to know being neither lawyer nor jewish nor aware the difference between the Chabad, the Lubawitscher or any other Hareidi School of Thought.)

[Shmarya]

Again, no Israel court agrees with you. No Knesset lawmakers who wrote those laws agree with you. The Knesset does not agree with you. No Israeli legal scholars agree with you.

Let Wolpe hang. Join him, if you will.

[Thothal, Budapest]

You proved my point.
Best regards

[Shmarya]

If your point is that you are no legal scholar, you certainly proved it.

[Sam I Amster]

Hi, saw this on http://www.SubliminalMessages.Com and just wanted to add my disgust with Rabbi Wolpe. Tsk, tsk, tsk.