Nittlenacht With Heeb

Heeb's raison d'être is to shock.

Still, the idea of holding any event with Kinky Jews bothers me.

If Heeb truly wants to be a voice for younger unaffiliated Jews it must understand that Kinky Jews is not a group to, ahem, partner with.

It's a free country and whatever people choose to do with their sexuality – as long as that choice does not injure others – is fine with me. But Heeb must understand its choice to shock was made over the choice to be responsible.

It is that irresponsibility, not Heeb's accomplishments, that will stick in the minds of many who see that flyer.

This means Hillel directors who were open to Heeb and hosted Heeb events may now withdraw support, as may JCCs and other Jewish venues that have tried to be welcoming to Heeb.

Heeb seems intent on drawing its circle ever smaller.

This may be a bad thing for Jews.

It is certainly a bad thing for Heeb.

Comments

[R]

wtf is heeb?

[Shmarya]

Heeb Magazine.

[The Monsey Tzaddik]

What’s wrong little spanking and handcuffS ? , zugasy shetichiye and me like to play every so often. Comes handy on nidda nights (no pun intended)

[Patrick Keefe]

Heeb is a disgusting magazine and internet forum that has nothing to do with Judaism or Jews. Rather, it is forum for ex-Jews to feel secure about having abandoned the religion in favor of Marxist nihilism with Jewish gloss mistakenly called "Reform."

As for sexuality, there is indeed such a thing as MORAL and IMMORAL sex, and it goes beyond whether or not you physically hurt people. There are fetishes that only immoral people would devise, and that are therefore immoral.

[Archie Bunker]

Kinky Jews is mostly about hedonism & free sex, not actual kink.

If anyone remembers the now defunct Jewish chat section of AOL, the Jewish Federation eventually cut funding after complaints that married and single swingers were trolling the site for young sex partners. Since the majority of the site users were Orthodox, someone tried reaching out to major organizations to warn parents. The National Council of Young Israel did not even understand what the problem was. The Agudath Israel refused to get involved since they did not want to acknowledge the internet. Two rabbis finally stepped up to the plate. One approached Howard Jonas who owned a 5% stake in AOL but Jonas did not wish to act. Another tried speaking to various elder rabbis but the gabbaim refused him an audience when they heard the word "internet".

A relative of someone on the Moetzes was contacted. He refused to get involved too but may have later relented. Not long afterwards the Moetzes issued a formal warning about the internet without mentioning specifics.

[Archie Bunker]

If I'm not mistaken, "Matza Ball" was the title used by the old Communist Labor Zionist / Bundist types who made a party on Yom Kippur night on the Lower East Side that included plenty of food to fress on.

[Archie Bunker]

Nittlenacht is in January when X-mas originally was according to all X-tian streams.

[Yochanan Lavie]

The Matzah Ball was sponsored by Jewish communists, not Zionists or Bundists.

[Nachum Lamm]

Archie, Nittel was never in January. In the Russian calendar, December was in January. And the Yom Kippur Ball was called exactly that.

"Howard Jonas who owned a 5% stake in AOL"

Well, Howard Jonas made his money off of internet service that pretty explicitely promised all the porn you wanted.

[Aharon]

I don't know, Shmarya. This looks like a fun and a nice way for Jews to meet and hang out with each other. Also, the issues of Heeb I've read had some fine contributors write nice articles. In the world of Jewish communal gatherings, this is, I think, a positive event. What's the problem here?

[Michael Croland]

Is "Kinky Jews" (it was capitalized) some kind of group that I don't know about, or is it just referring to Jews who are ... kinky?

[Barry]

Archie, the Gemara states we should ask for Tal and Mattar 60 days after the equinox which would be in November. However because the Julian calender is inaccurate by about 3/4 days or so to each century, that date slipped over the years into December just as for the eastern Christians, Xmas slipped into January.

When Britain switched from the Julian to the Gregorian in 1752 so that 11 days disappeared, there were riots by people who felt that the government stole 11 days of their lives. The Church supported that change because Easter would coincide with Pessach

[Shmarya]

Michael –

It's a group.

[Shmarya]

What's the problem here?

Kinky Jews.

[R]

Is strip dreidel the jewish version of strip poker? So as nun you would do nothing, Hey you take off half your clothes and Gimmel is to strip off, but Shin you have to put an item of clothing on??

Who makes this magazine? As in what Jewish sect? Also i don't get why you are up in arms over it.

[Isa]

Go to Google, type this exactly as shown including the double quote marks:
"Kinky Jews"
[using double quote marks, Google will treat anything inside double quote as one expression]
You will now see links to their Web site

[Yochanan Lavie]

What about Kinky Friedman?

[Archie Bunker]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/23/nyregion/thecity/23orth.html

Matisyahu now identifies with Karlin-Stolin and commutes from Crown Hts to daven at their beis medrash in Boro Park.

[Archie Bunker]

Isa,

That wasn't very wise to point people to the site. You now bear responsibility if someone you directed misbehaves at their events.

[Archie Bunker]

Barry,

The fact remains that the Orthodox date of Jan. 6th was observed by other X-tian streams for a very long time. Halachicly speaking, Nittel Nacht is considered to be in Jan. if you ask a posek.

[Shmarya]

It's actually a machlochet poskim, AB.

[Shmarya]

Yochanan Lavie:

http://www.google.com/search?q=Kinky+Friedman&hl=en&safe=off&domains=failedmessiah.typepad.com&sitesearch=http://failedmessiah.typepad.com&filter=0

and this:

http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2006/09/kinky_friedman_.html

[Shmarya]

AB –

http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2007/11/matisyahu-comes.html

[Isa]

Dear Archie Bunker:
People need to know how to find things on the Internet and judge for themselves.
WORD OF WARNING!!
Access to the Internet is via a unique IP address so accessing child porn will likely land someone in a heap of serious trouble FELONY IN FACT!!-INTERNET USES ARE NOT ANONYMOUS. They are few vigilantes out there doing in idiots who access child porn.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Shmarya: I know who the Kinkster is. It was a joke! (Since everyone was hocking a tchinek about "kinky Jews"). :)

[thinkbanc]

I found your post really interesting and it has really improved my knowledge on the matter. You’ve assisted my understanding on what is usually a hard to tackle subject. Thank you!

[Davenatrix]

Hello. I am the founder and coordinator of KinkyJews. Can you be more specific about what you feel is irresponsible for HEEB to partner with us? Several mainstream Jewish Jewish organizations including the 14th Street Y, the JCC in Manhattan, the Gay and Lesbian Yeshiva and Day School Alumni Association, the Forward, and others.

In addition to promoting sexual freedom and expression [and admittedly hedonism and humor], KinkyJews promotes progressive sexual positions including being outspoken against sexual abuse, and for women's rights, lgbt rights, abortion rights, and sexual rights.

[Shmarya]

The Forward "partnered" with Kinky Jews? Or it covered Kinky Jews?

Ditto the Jcc.

[Davenatrix]

Partnered. Both were partners for different nights of Evenings of Jewish Lit-Erotica.

[Davenatrix]

My original comment should have read that we partnered with those organizations.

[Larry Yudelson]

I don't get your outrage, Shmarya. What sort of guilt-by-association game are you playing here? If you're claiming that Kinky Jews isn't what it claims to be, and what the first page of Google results portray it as being, then you should explain what it is and why it's so heinous.

If you simply don't like that it is, apparently, a Jewish subgroup within NYC's communities of sexual transgressives.... well, shit, man, remind me not to send you any advance galleys of my novels. I can't be bothered to make sure every single scene and sentence meets your moral standards -- and I'd sure hate to run afoul of them, lest you start warning my potential partners that I'm moral degenerate.

Or nave you now decide that Kinky Jews is the second group that demands total herem?

[Shmarya]

Hey, Reb Yudel! How are you?

My objection is not to what Kinky Jews does within its group (as long as no one gets hurt and everything is consensual).

If Heeb had partnered with a GLBT Jewish group or a group advocating pelegish, say, I wouldn't have raised any objection.

My objection to Kinky Jews is that the group has the notion that any form of sexuality expressed any way at all is fine and all are equal, all are Jewish and all are "kosher."

Kinky Jews does not seem to understand boarders. At any rate, strip dreidel should not be a part of any Jewish event that aims to be inclusive.

I understand Heeb recently published an ad from a group of Israeli porn sites.

This is also wrong. And it is bad for Heeb, as well.

[Shmarya]

Reb Yudel –

Please send me one of those novels. I'd really like to read one.

Let's say your novel has very graphic depictions of usual and unusual sex acts (ie.e, it's basically porn with a story wrapped around it).

I would object to Hillel Houses, JCCs, etc., stocking that book – unless a real credible attempt was made to both keep it away from minors and to clearly label the content so unsuspecting readers could be forewarned.

Heeb doesn't seem to agree with this.

[Reb Yudel]

Well, Ben Yehuda Press is not publishing any porn or erotica at the moment (thanks for the idea, though)... but lets say that we did. Should that disqualify shuls from ordering any of our other books? Because that is what you are suggesting: If Heeb works with KinkyJews to provide strip dreidel activities, you think JCCs should no longer work with Heeb to provide other services. (We'll put aside for a moment the fact that a JCC worked with KinkyJews to provide an evening of literary erotica.) I really don't follow that logic. Shouldn't an event, or a book, stand on its own?

That is to say, you're not complaining that a communal group is sponsoring a group that worked with a third group. That's a secondary boycott, which I believe is illegal in this country, at least (regrettably) when undertaken by a labor union.

The problem with your approach is ein ledavar sof. Should you not read a book by an Orthodox rabbi because his publisher also publishes books by a Jewish Renewal rabbi? Should you boycott the Renewal rabbi because her publisher publishes books by authors who make women sit behind a mechitza?

If you're not boycotting products bearing the OU, are you endorsing their views on sexuality, or on the settlements?

I also have to ask where you draw the line in considering books as needing to be kept away from minors. When the local Rochester newspaper profiled my haredi high school, they mentioned that students in the dorm had their mail censored -- they couldn't receive Playboy. The truth was that they could receive Time or Newsweek, but a couple of days late, to give the Rebbetzins time to black-out any non-tznius pictures.

You might want to describe Kinky Jews as being uniquely offensive for being nonjudgemental, but some people find Haredi Judaism offensive for its portrayal of masturbation as genocide and Ismar Schorch's Conservative Judaism as offensive for being self-righteously intolerant of homosexuality while being self-servingly tolerant of boalei-nidah.

Perhaps your real problem is with Heeb. It's certainly not a magazine that I leave lying around the house, nor does it claim to be. It's precisely the sort of magazine that would sponsor a strip dreidel party. The only thing that would make me think twice about working with Heeb in the future, were I a JCC or the like, is that they needed outside help to manage the strip dreidel.

[Shmarya]

You're missing my point.

If Newsweek or the New Republic partnered with Kinky Jews you'd understand why many subscribers would be upset.

It turns out Heeb took porn ads, as well.

Would you want your kids to see those ads?

Heeb puts no disclaimer on its product. It should.

[Reb Yudel]

Maybe I'm jaded because the only issue of Heeb I was ever given was the Sex issue, which spoke for itself. But what's with disclaimers? National Lampoon never had disclaimers, even at its funniest; nor, to the chagrin of my high-school Roshei Yeshiva, did Newsweek.

As a publisher, though, I think disclaimers can be a wonderful thing. Remember "Banned in Boston"?

[Shmarya]

National Lampoon never took porn ads and it never promoted S & M.

[Pinchas haKohen]

Sexuality in Judaism has moral boundaries, any porn sites from Israel are in transgression. In addition, any Jewish websites which support male homosexuality or lesbian marriage amongst Jews have transgressed these moral boundaries forbidden by Torah Judaism. ...... has everyone gone meshugenah?