Lentils in Jewish Law and Thought

I've long been puzzled by rabbinic references to foods that do not seem on the surface to be accurate. What do I mean? For example, lentils, which rabbis of old considered a suitable food to serve a mourner because they are "round."

But lentils are not round. Quite the contrary, they are almost flat with an oval shape, and have been from time immemorial. Look at this bit of lentil triva:

The optical lens is so named after the lentil (Latin: lens), whose shape it resembles.[1] The same applies also to Greek language, where the word φακός means lens and φακή means lentil. In the Persian language, a lens is referred to as adasi where adas means lentil. In Hebrew, a lens is known as adasha (plural adashot) and adash (plural adashim) means lentil. In Turkish, mercek means lens and mercimek means lentil. In French the word lentille is used to mean either lens or lentil. In Serbian, word sočivo and in Croatian leća, means both lentil and lens.

So what gives? Were rabbis simply playing fast and loose with reality in order to darshan Ya'akov's red (lentil) stew as the mourning meal for his family on his grandfather Avraham's passing, and thereby make Eisav look bad?

Maybe not.

Last week I had Indian food that had been imported from India rather than locally prepared. The lentils were round, almost like large peas. This is an unusual strain of lentil, now found mostly in India. Perhaps there was a time when these lentils were also found in Israel. Whether that time was concurrent with Ya'akov and Eisav or concurrent with Rabbi Yochanan and Yossi HaGlili is another matter, as is the possibility these round lentils were found in Babylonia during the time of Ravina and Rav Ashi but never in Israel during the past 5000 years.

This has implications for halacha because of the common measurements used in Jewish law – the size of a lentil and half a lentil. Why? Because the Indian round lentils are larger than our lentils by as much as two times.

So what is the real history of the lentil as it applies to Jewish law and thought? This, as we say, needs looking into. Perhaps some of you can do that and report back what you find.

Comments

[Michael Croland]

Very fascinating! Looking forward to reading other people's replies

This definitely put me in the mood for having lentil soup tonight! =)

[A perplexed reader]

Hmmm, so the 'evil rabbis' are not all liars and deceivers afterall... But how can that be?.......

Please note strong sarcasm.

[C-Girl]

Shmarya, Any chance that what you had were mung beans?

[Ben Qor'ha]

Sorry Rabeinu , but I don't understand the qashya.
The lentils are 'agulim, if u prefer me'ugalim.
I always understood -since childhood- that to mean round like discs and not spherical like a ball or a marble.
When the holy books explained round in the context of lentils, or even elliptical or spherical egg (also standard food for mourners and the Eve of Tshaa Bov), it always compared those foods to a "galgal" -a wheel- that has no 'mouth' in analogy to the deceased that could speak no more.
In that, both the eggs and the lentils qualify in not having a mouth and being round.
Otherwise, mung beans as suggested by C-Girl, or even chick peas or peas, do have a mouth, tiny as it would be.
Until proven otherwise, I am happy identifying Yaaqov avinu's lentils, in a straight line with those of the talmud and the shulchan 'arukh and those that I consumed at my grandmother's and my mother's table.
Apart from the use for aveilim and tisha beav, they are besser than Popeye's spinach being equally loaded with iron and the added benefits of fiber!
I have bigger problems settling the haphazard way in which ashkenazim identify the food on the seder plate, being even further from Eretz Yisroel and Babylon than India.

[Ben Qor'ha]

a quote from b.t. baba batra
מסכת בבא בתרא פרק א
דף טז, ב גמרא
ויבא עשו מן השדה והוא עיף ותנא אותו היום
נפטר אברהם אבינו ועשה יעקב אבינו תבשיל של עדשים לנחם את יצחק אביו [ומ"ש של עדשים] אמרי במערבא משמיה דרבה בר מרי מה עדשה זו אין לה פה אף אבל אין לו פה דבר אחר מה עדשה זו
מגולגלת אף אבילות מגלגלת ומחזרת על באי העולם

I had earlier written, "it always compared those foods to a "galgal" -a wheel- that has no 'mouth' in analogy to the deceased that could speak no more. " actually, it says here that the analogy here is with the aveil and not with the deceased. It is the aveil who can't talk. Otherwise, the lentil is still round enough for me! :-)

[Fleishike Kishke]

So much for those who to the shiva house bring "round" bagels, for the circle of life hakunamatata. Bagels definitely have "mouths."

What I don't get is what difference does lentils and mourners "not having mouths" make? This connection seems so shallow. Is it old time humor? Green donuts on St. Patty's day?

[Shmarya]

Shmarya, Any chance that what you had were mung beans?

No. Lentils.

[Ben Qor'ha]

Fleishike Kishke
u mentioned that Bagels definitely have "mouths."
I don't think the mouth refers to the hole in the bagel or in the doughnut but rather to a visible pinch on the dough of each to seal the dough together. in that sense, an italian taralli would have a mouth.
"What I don't get is what difference does lentils and mourners "not having mouths" make?" Most normal mourners are speechless, silent if you will.
This is not really a shallow analogy, but rather an act with symbolism. Like eating maror on passover (ok, that is de-oroysso), tzimmes on rosh hashana signifying gelt does it make anymore sense?
As taught by R' Tevye :Tradition! (music et al)

[Fleishike Kishke]

To my mind, tsimmes are clearly intended to be fun, festive, playful, pun-y holiday fare. Though I do know frummies who eat them with "kavono" and maybe even the care to eat "an olive-size worth." Yet that still is "shallow," but I'll eat them if they're made with humanely-butchered short-ribs.

If Jacob's lentils in the torah and talmud are as whimsical and easygoing as green donuts on St. Patty's day I can get into that. but then pray tell how did Orthodoxy evolve into the mean, petty, warped, hypocritcal, nasty, closeminded, movement that this blog feels the need to counter?

A Baal Teshuva made havdolo after the Feast of Weeks and then realized he hadn't eaten blintzes. So he ate them the following day, but without a blessing.

[Ben Qor'ha]

"but then pray tell how did Orthodoxy evolve into the mean, petty, warped, hypocritcal, nasty, closeminded, movement that this blog feels the need to counter?"

I don't know fleishig. like everything else in life, it's not all black, nor white. Let's all be better and teach by setting an exemple.
PS: There is no doubt in my mind that rabbis in the talmud had a keen sense of humour. Some still do in our days. Fools, often baalei tshuva, often pose as custodians of the law and defenders of the faith in ways often harmful to the faith and to themselves. But I am digressing now. In any way, a reply to your question should be able to command a fat fee. :-) not so easy!

[Yochanan Lavie]

Fleishike and Ben Q:

Why did the Baal Teshuva cross the road?

A: Because the Artscroll siddur told him to.

(Disclosure: I am a BT gone bad, and I still daven, using the Artscroll siddur. It is just fine, but I am making fun of the mentality).

[Archie Bunker]

"Were rabbis simply playing fast and loose with reality in order to darshan Ya'akov's red (lentil) stew as the mourning meal for his family on his grandfather Avraham's passing, and thereby make Eisav look bad?"

Floating this question against the Sages of the Talmud is indicative of an astounding sense of arrogance. There is no one alive today who are versed in even a fraction of their knowledge.

The post does not even make sense. An oval is also round. The Sages did not say that the lentil is perfectly circular.

As a matter of fact, the Sages always lump lentils & eggs together in the same category. Oval comes from the Medieval Latin ōvālis and originally from the old Latin ōvum, the word for egg. In modern Hebrew, the word for oval is segalgal. Galgal was the word used by Sages to describe lentils, eggs & life cycles.

[Archie Bunker]

Why all this advocating on behalf of Esav? I guess if someone eats in the manner of "haleetainee na", one would sympathyze & identify with Esav. :o)

[Fleishike Kishke]

I discussed this post with my shiksa girlfriend ... her take on it was if the mourner eats enough lentils and eggs eventually he'll have to open his mouth and say, "excuse me ..." ba-rum-pump.

On my ride home it occurred to me that these days gumballs would be the perfect food to bring to a mourner. Round, spherical, no mouth. Too bad the talmud with all its far-seeing pre-scientific holy spirit wisdom couldn't divine gumballs.

[S.]

I don't have much to add to what Archie Bunker said (never thought I'd say that! ;) but I would just say to bear in mind that the extremely expansive English vocabulary with precise and narrow terms for seemingly endless concepts is not analogous to Hebrew. As of the late 19th century there still was no Hebrew word for "pink," something to bear in mind.

[Neo-Conservaguy]

"Floating this question against the Sages of the Talmud is indicative of an astounding sense of arrogance. There is no one alive today who are versed in even a fraction of their knowledge."

I doubt they would have agreed with such a dangerous comment. Then again, they seemed better able to recognize fanatics and the harm they cause Am Yisrael, so perhaps they had a few things more clear than the thousands of Toira scholars that sit "learning" in yeshevoth all day rather than working like most of the sages of the Talmud did.

[Dave]

Speaking of the sages of the Talmud, years ago in my Dad's and my business, we used to have a customer who was in the organic food business. He was an ex-hippie, and he used to wear socks and sandals, right into the fall. His name was Jim. We used to call him Jim the Sandal-Wearer (as in Rabbi Yochanan the Sandal-maker). We used to have a big laugh out of it. I guess you had to be there.