Israeli Conversion Court Refuses To Convert Chabad Messianist

Ma'ariv reports:
בית דין רבני לגיור סירב לגייר חבדניק משיחיסט

בית דין רבני סירב לגייר בחור שעלה מרוסיה, ולמד לאחרונה בישיבה חב"דית משיחיסטית. הבחור נפסל ככל הנראה, בשל בעיות באמונתו בעיקרי היהדות, שכן הוא מאמין כי הרבי מלובביץ' חי וכי הוא המלך המשיח

   

דפדף ביהדות
אבישי בן חיים
26/12/2007 12:37

    בית דין רבני לגיור סירב לגייר חב"דניק משיחיסט. ככל הנראה הדיינים לא מצאו פגם בהתנהלותו הדתית, אך פסלו אותו בשל בעיות באמונתו בעיקרי היהדות, שכן הוא מגיע מישיבה שבה מאמינים כי הרבי מלובביץ' שהלך לעולמו בשנת 1994 עדיין חי והוא המלך המשיח.

מדובר בבחור בשנות העשרים לחייו שעלה לארץ מרוסיה לפני למעלה מעשר שנים, ובתקופה האחרונה לומד בישיבה חב"דית משיחיסטית.

לטענת הבחור סבתו מצד אמו בכלל הייתה יהודייה ובכל זאת הוא הלך ללמוד במכון לגיור, סיים  את לימודיו בהצלחה והועלה לדיון בפני בית הדין לגיור.

גורמים במערכת הגיור שהיו קשורים להליך לימודיו תקפו בחריפות את הרכב הדיינים וטענו כי הדבר גרם למשבר קשה בכיתת הלימוד שבה הוא למד.

"זה היה פשוט חורבן. הוא הראשון מהכיתה שעלה לשלב הגיור. התלמידים אמרו ש'אם אותו לא גיירו אז את מי כן יגיירו?' אם בחור ישיבה לא מסכימים לגייר מה צריכה לחשוב סווטלנה הזבנית שיושבת איתו בכיתה? איך נגיד שאנחנו מעודדים גיורים. בשביל מה בכלל הדיינים נכנסו איתו לנושא הרבי מלובביץ' והמשיח?" אמר אחד מהם והוסיף: "יש דיינים שמשעמם להם והם רוצים נושא להרצאה או למאמר: 'מעמדו של הגר שבא מחב"ד'. הכל על גבו של המסכן הזה".

במערך הגיור אמרו כי מדובר בהרכב דיינים ציוני דתי וכי הם התייעצו עם ארבעה רבנים, ששניים מהם מהבולטים ברבני הציונות הדתית אמרו להם כי אין לגייר את הבחור ושני האחרים בעלי אוריינטציה חרדית יותר פסקו כי אפשר לגייר אותו. 

"יוצא מצב א-נורמלי שדווקא רבנים ציונים דתיים יותר מחמירים מדיינים חרדים" תקף אותם אחד מאנשי מערך הגיור והוסיף כי "עכשיו אחרי שהם התייעצו עם הרבנים שלהם הם באים לסבך את הרב עמאר עם חב"ד". זאת מכיוון שהתיק אמור להגיע לשולחנו של הרב הספרדי הראשי הרב שלמה עמאר בכדי שיכריע בעניין.

As always, if you can translate, please do so and leave the translation as a comment to this post. Thanks!

[Hat Tip: Daniel.]

UPDATE – English-language translation courtesy of Schmorgel (Borgel) here.

Comments

[Yosef ben Matitya]

barukh shehechiyanu, veqiyemanu, vehigianu lazman hazeh!

[jake]

it took you a few days to find this article...BH you have another article against chabad. you know over chanukah chabad lighting candles all over the world hit approx 1750 newspapers and tv worldwide, meaning millions of people saw and lived the mircle of chanukah b/c of the rebbe ztl. shame on you

[Schmorgel (Borgel)]

My translation:
Byline:

Avishai ben Hayyim
Dec 26, 2007
A beit din for conversions has refused to convert a messianist adherent of Chabad. Apparently, the rabbinical judges found no fault in his religious comportment, however, they rejected him on account of problems in his beliefs in fundamentals of Jewish faith, as he comes from a yeshiva in which it is believed that the Lubavitcher rebbe, who passed away in 1994, is still alive and is the King Messiah.

The person in question is a young man in his 20s who immigrated to Israel from Russia more than 10 years ago, and recently has been learning in a meshichist Chabad yeshiva.

According to the young man, his maternal grandmother was indeed Jewish, nevertheless, he went to learn in an institute for conversion to Judaism, completed his studies there successfully, and was brought before a beit din for conversion.

People involved in the conversion proceedings who were involved in his tutelage severely attacked the composition of the beit din's judges, and claimed that the matter has caused a severe crisis in the young man's class.

"This is simply a disaster. He is the first from the class who has made it to the level of converting. The other students said 'If they aren’t converting him, then who will they convert?' If they don’t agree to convert a real yeshiva bocher like him, what will Svetlana the shop clerk think, who sits alongside him in class?!' How can we say that we encourage conversions? Why did the dayyanim even bring up the subject of the Rebbe and Moshiach with him?" Another one [translator's comment—I guess one of the teachers] added…
"There are dayyanim who are bored and they want a topic for a speech or an essay—'The Status of the ger who came from Chabad' And all on the back of this poor guy."

In the conversion institute they said, the beit din was composed of rabbinical judges from the Religious Zionist stream, and they conferred with four rabbis, two of whom who are among the most prominent the Religious Zionist movement, and those two told them that they should not convert the young man. The two others, who had a more haredi orientation, decreed that they should convert the young man.

"An atypical situation has arisen, where, in this instance, Religious Zionist dayyanim are more stringent than haredi dayyanim" one of the people from the Conversion Institute accused…and "now that they have conferred with their rabbis, they want to entangle Rabbi Amar with Chabad." This last comment refers to the fact that the case is supposed to come to the Chief Sepharadi Rabbi Shelomo Amar's desk in order for him to cast the deciding vote in the matter.

[Schmorgel (Borgel)]

Why can't he find a meshichist beis din in chutz laaretz to convert him?

[Anon]

If his maternal grandmother is jewish why does he need a conversion?

[Schmorgel (Borgel)]

"If his maternal grandmother is jewish why does he need a conversion?"

If one doesn't have solid evidence that such is the case, it is not uncommon that they require one to undergo a conversion to remove any doubt. If his mother's mother was a Jewess who married a non-Jew back in the USSR-it's a good bet that she wasn't religious enough to have saved any documentation (e.g., her parents ketuba) that would "prove" her parents' Jewish lineage, and she herself at most would probably only have a Soviet passport that identify her as of being Jewish nationality. Such documnetation would be acceptable enough to the Jewish Agency for purposes of allowing her grandson to make aliyah, but would not necessarily be acceptable enough to allow that grandson to be considered Jewish for purposes of marrying another Jew.

[chief doofis]

It's about time that people realized that if you believe a dead man is/was the Messiah, then you are a Christian, not a Jew!!

[YUGUY]

Jake:
I am sick of people claiming that Chabad is off limits because of 'the good' that they do. It is a ridiculous statement to suggest that just because Chabad does good, they can violate the bounds of Judaism as much as they would like. If history has taught us anything, its that a deviation of this sort is a sure sign of the beginnings of a new faith.

Missionaries throughout the world spread hope and life. They feed the starving in Africa, they help rehabilitate drug addicts here in America, and they fight for the state of Israel to remain a Jewish state. Does that mean that we should accept them as valid Jews?

Jews for Jesus are very into publicity as well, although they haven't quite mastered the art of propaganda as well as Chabad or Goebbels. These self proclaimed 'Jews' are nothing of the sort, and you would not join them in a minyan or accept them as coverts, despite all the good they accomplish.

WHY are you indifferent to Chabad? What makes Chabad different from these other messianic beliefs? If we were to give Chabad 2000 years of evolution, how different would it look from modern Christianity. Your looking to closely at the light of Chabad, and therefore you can't see the darkness it masks.

[Isaac Balbin]

Notwithstanding the fact that Meshichist beliefs are at best tenuously justifiable from both a textual and masoretic sense, it is equally tenuous to conclude that such beliefs can be classified as K'firah.

I don't have access to the details of the judgement, however, I can only surmise that the Beis Din had difficulty allowing a precedent which would seemingly also allow someone who kept 613 Mitzvos but claimed Yoshke (Lehavdil) was (the only possible) Moshiach to be classified as a Ger Tzedek.

Importantly, Chabad (whether they be overt Meshichistin or the more passive silent variety) deny the possibility that anybody ELSE could be Moshiach. That latter point needs to be considered in analysing the textual veracity of their viewpoint. Nevertheless, unless one defines K'firah as acting against established Mesora, it's hard to show that this is K'firah.

[Shmarya]

t took you a few days to find this article...BH you have another article against chabad. you know over chanukah chabad lighting candles all over the world hit approx 1750 newspapers and tv worldwide, meaning millions of people saw and lived the mircle of chanukah b/c of the rebbe ztl. shame on you

1. The article's publication date is December 26th, 2007 – i.e., yesterday.

2. As YUGUY points out, using your standard, we'd all have to accept J for J and Hebrew Christian converts as Jews.

[Shmorgel (Borgel)]

"As YUGUY points out, using your standard, we'd all have to accept J for J and Hebrew Christian converts as Jews."

Well, that is the shitta of some, such as Milhouse. I don't like Chabad Messianism, but I think it can be argued that it is a valid POV that the early Church were authentic Jews who followed the mitzvos. Also, I should have translated "le'hakhria' as "resolve" before instead of "cast the deciding vote" but I hope it's close enough.

[Ariel Sokolovsky]

B"H
What will you say is Chabad dayanim would reject a religious Zionist convert on the basis of the statement by the Rebbe that those who say that state off Israel is the begining of redemption are following after a false Messiah and loud proclamations of this belief actually causes terror in peace time etc.?
How about a Chabad judge sitting on an Israeli Beis Din or one here coming out with a statement that rabbis who hold these beliefs are presumed to be fools and or heretics and not to be relied upon (similar to Aaron Feldams statement on Mashichistim)
Hirhurim will explode in righteous indignation and this blog author would scream "bloody murder".
How about a religious zionist judge on an Israeli Beis Din refusing to accept Satmar or Naturey Karta ger has this ever happened?
PS. From what I have read about Rabbi Amar's background I don't think he would support this outrageous decision.

[Neo-Conservaguy]

Who in the world would go to a Chabad beth din besides someone from Chabad? An am ha'arets, perhaps?

[R]

Ariel sokolovksy, what you are saying would be like the pot calling the kettle black.
Plus who cares what Chabad would do or think. They do and think and say alot of things about other Jews, but it doesn't mean they are right.
However, with this decision about this incident, i think the bet din were 100% correct with their decision.
So take off your beer goggles and see chabad for what it is.
With christianity the original christians were jewish, but once the non jews joined and started to change things, even they saw that it was turning against torah and Judaism. Sadly one can't really say the same for Chabad as they just blindly follow like sheep everything their rebbe ever said, no matter whether it made sense or whether it is against the torah. Because rebbe is all powerful and torah and god in once.

[Ariel Sokolovsky]

B"H
Plus who cares what Chabad would do or think.
I am talking about Chabad judges on the official Israeli rabbanut batey din like the beit din in this case.
Decissions like this made for ideological reasons have potential to deminish respect for the official Israeli rabbanut even further to the point of each group setting up their own competing batey dinim like here in the USA like the Tzohar affiliated religious Zionist rabbis threatened in the case with heter mechirah few months ago...

[Yosef ben Matitya]

"Decissions like this made for ideological reasons have potential to deminish respect for the official Israeli rabbanut even further to the point of each group setting up their own competing batey dinim like here in the USA like the Tzohar affiliated"

lubovits, does not eat other's schechita they have their own batei din, their own nusach, their own 'avoda zoreh! what remained jewish in them?

[Ariel Sokolovsky]

B"H
If Religious Zionists will not recognize Chabad conversions , the Chareidim will nulify Religious Zionist conversions after 17 years
etc. it will lead to separate competing Beis Dins. In this atmosphere of lack of unity it will be much easier for Reform and Conservative , Reconstructionists etc. to demand equal recognition for their own conversions and this will lead to Orthodox creating separate sifrei yuchsin (rivate geneological records registries) etc.
See also: http://www.whoisajew.com
This will also hurt religious Zionists more than it will hurt Chabad as they often tend to have more linient standards for conversion.

It will cause much pain for many people for generations more so than the machloikes between Beis Hilel and Beis Shamai that lead to Beis Hilel considering some among the Beis Shamai mamzerim.

[Yosef ben Matitya]

It will cause much pain for many people for generations more so than the machloikes between Beis Hilel and Beis Shamai that lead to Beis Hilel considering some among the Beis Shamai mamzerim.
the machloyqes is there already. chabad are out of the pale.
jews they are no longer.
with their avodo zoreh with there foreign deity, shfichus domim by their practice of loshen hore, and aroyos of the pileges.
jews are no longer allowed to communicate with them. (sheein mabitin bifnei rosha)
all what they say is botel umvutol keafro deoro.

[like other cults: Chabad missionary thrives on the ignorant only!]

The discussion here is futile - anyway in the more Torah knowledgable circles of the Jewish world Chabad Lubavitch and its most recent Idol have long ago been written off as legitamte Jews - Listed are the main Torah Scolars and Yeshiva masters of the last generation:

Chazon Ish and Brisker Rov
R. Aharon Kotler of BMG Lakewood Yeshiva, Reb Yaakov Kaminetzky of Torah Vodaas,
Reb Yechezkel Abramsky Slabodka Yeshiva
Rav Shach Ponevesh yeshiva
Satmar Rebbe
Reb Yitzchok Hutner of R. Chayim Berlin Yeshiva,
rabbi ruderman, R, Weinberg and Rabbi Aharon feldman Ner Yisroel in Baltimore.

The Largest Yeshiva in the world is Mir in Jerusalem and BMG in USA. The Largest Chassidic Group in the world is Satmar.

I don't think any Chabad missionary would succeed at any of these major centers of Jewish scholarship, they are long considerd idol worshipers at the best and a bunch of manyaks at the worst.
So waht did the mamas"sh do to Chabad with his grand operations: turned it from a more or less normative chassidic group to a crazy cult akin to a pseudo-Christian cult - with money and power and something to sell [pseudo Judaism] and the worst: one big Avoda Zara [Idol Worship, of himself] Nebbech!

furter reading:
Rabbi David Berger: Chabad: the New Cristianity.
Rabbi Newman : Al Vtorah Veal Hatemurah, London 1992 [Hebrew]
Kuntress Haemmes al Chabad [Hebrew]

[like other cults: Chabad missionary thrives on the ignorant only!]

Like many cults: Chabad missionary thrives on the ignorant only!

The discussion here is futile - anyway in the more Torah knowledgable circles of the Jewish world Chabad Lubavitch and its most recent Idol have long ago been written off as legitimate Jews - Listed are the main Torah Scolars and Yeshiva masters of the last generation:

Chazon Ish and Brisker Rov
R. Aharon Kotler of BMG Lakewood Yeshiva, Reb Yaakov Kaminetzky of Torah Vodaas,
Reb Yechezkel Abramsky Slabodka Yeshiva
Rav Shach Ponevesh yeshiva
Satmar Rebbe
Reb Yitzchok Hutner of R. Chayim Berlin Yeshiva,
rabbi ruderman, R, Weinberg and Rabbi Aharon feldman Ner Yisroel in Baltimore.

The Largest Yeshiva in the world is Mir in Jerusalem and BMG in USA. The Largest Chassidic Group in the world is Satmar.

I don't think any Chabad missionary would succeed at any of these major centers of Jewish scholarship, they are long considerd idol worshipers at the best and a bunch of manyaks at the worst.
So waht did the mama"sh do to Chabad with his grand operations: turned it from a more or less normative chassidic group to a crazy cult akin to a pseudo-Christian cult - with money and power and something to sell [pseudo Judaism] and the worst: one big Avoda Zara [Idol Worship, of himself] Nebbech!

further reading:
Rabbi David Berger: Chabad: the New Cristianity.
Rabbi Newman : Al Vtorah Veal Hatemurah, London 1992 [Hebrew]
Kuntress Haemmes al Chabad [Hebrew]