Haredim Most Racist Group In Israel

Ynet reports on a new Israeli public opinion poll commissioned by Ynet and Gesher, and carried out by the Mutagim organization:

…When asked "would you let your child marry an Ethiopian?" 63% answered they would gladly welcome the marriage while 19% said "absolutely not." Another 6% said they would be saddened but would not object.

Religious segmentation points at a different attitude: 61% of ultra-Orthodox respondents said they would vehemently object such a marriage. Only 25% would welcome an Ethiopian in-law.

That 25% of haredim would "welcome" an Ethiopian as a son- or daughter-in-law means that a large section of haredim surveyed view Ethiopian Jews as full Jews. This either means a disproportionate number of haredim interviewed are Sefardim or the question was understood by all to mean that the Ethiopian Jews in question were fully Jewish, either through conversion or through rabbinic affirmation.

Either way, haredim are far more bigoted than average, as the rest of the results clearly show:

The second question examined the degree of familiarity respondents have with community members: 32% admitted they do not have any Ethiopian friends and that they do not know any Ethiopians with whom they could build friendships. 20% do know Ethiopians but have no Ethiopian friends and 34% said they or their children have such a friend.

Once again a religious segmentation points at a different trend in the ultra-Orthodox community: 72% don't have Ethiopian friend.

Does the segregation in some of Petah Tikva schools reflect parents' wishes? 63% claim they have no problem sending their children to schools where 40% of the students are Ethiopians. On the other hand, 14% said they "would never" send their children to such institutions.

50% of ultra-Orthodox respondents said they would not send their children to such a school.

Gesher director-general Shoshi Becker said that the findings are worrying and require immediate action: "It is difficult to understand how people who practice Judaism as a way of life choose to steer clear of Ethiopian immigrants.

Becker added that a Jewish-democratic society should view acceptance of the other as a challenge and a mission and convey a clear message to future generations: "This is our job as a society, a community and as individuals."

Haredim are the most racist and bigoted subset of Jews in Israel. Anecdotal evidence points to the same result for haredim worldwide. In the infamous words of a Chabad shaliach, spoken to me in 1983 Hadar Hatorah's summer program for college students, "Why are you waisting your time helping helping schvartes?"

For every Rabbi Moshe Feinstein or Rabbi Ovadia Yosef there were – and still are – hundreds of rabbis like this one, like his mentor, Menachem Mendel Schneerson, and like  the racists and bigots of Borough Park, Williamsburg, Kiryas Joel, Monsey, Manchester, Antwerp and beyond.

Haredism survives by creating ghettos and by demonizing the Other. It is at its core a racist and bigoted. Haredism cannot change because to change would mean to end haredism – you can't suddenly start being friendly and welcoming to the Other you demonize and still maintain ghetto walls.

Historically the ghetto was imposed on Jews from the outside. We were forced to live isolated lives because the dominant, usually Christian, rulering class did not want their "pure" populace mixing with "impure" Jews.

How sad and how ironic it is that "fervently religious" Jews, haredim, have made this non-Jewish racism and bigotry their own.

Comments

[Archie Bunker]

Now that Shmarya has scuttled even the facade of diplomacy and is letting rip his virulent hatred of Haredim, let's deal with the facts.

Yediot may be no friends of orthodox Jews but Gesher is part of Meretz, the sworn enemy of religion. We all know that a poll can be skewed by the poll taker. This happens in America all the time. Someone who speaks a sub-standard form of English calls you at home to "Axe you" some questions that are unfairly worded with a Liberal slant. The polltaker even gets angry when challenged with a right-leaning answer. It's also been shown with various polls that most people polled are unemployed and have lower IQs than the general population.

My next post will deal with this particular post and "Sham"-arya's outrageous and gratuitous comments.

[The Monsey Tzadik]

I do think that Chabbad are more racists toward black people than let say Litvish people. I think Chabbad is too obsessed with black people. My wife Naomi Campbell tells me that if I was be growing up in Crown Heights I would hate black people as well.

In one of my journeys I stayed in Chabbad house for shobbos where the sholiach wife could not stop blaming shwartzes for everything wrong.

[Jim the Catholic]

I don't care if my son or daughter marries a black person. As long as they are Catholic or open to learn about being one then I'm happy.

Of course I had an Italian Catholic friend who thought it would be a bad thing if his daughter brought home a black guyeven if he was Catholic. I had a late great aunt & uncle who objected to their widower nephew marring a black Baptist woman even though she converted. They where not thrilled till the day they died.

It happens.

It's also been shown with various polls that most people polled are unemployed . . . than the general population.

If what you said is true, then given that so many charedim chose not to work, it follows that polls of charedim would actually represent the general charedi population pretty accurately, since more of the "average" members of that populuation would be polled.

[Jim the Catholic]

Additional:

In my experince there is a lot of underlying racism among a lot of Jewish people toward blacks. But to be fair there is a lot of anti-Semtism among blacks toward Jews. At least in my experience.

Don't get me started on my fellow Italians(I'm Italian on my Mother's side, Scotish/English on my Father).

Can't we all just get along?:-)

[Archie Bunker]

"given that so many charedim chose not to work"

Most of the men are in yeshiva. Whoever takes a call at home and devotes 20 to 40 minutes of unpaid time which is what many polls demand, is a useless boob with too much free time on their hands.

[Archie Bunker]

Shmarya's false premise here ignores several realities. Among them is the fact that there are differing halachic opinions as to the Jewishness of Falashas. Like it or not, Shmarya cannot force the opinion he prefers on everyone else.

The poll itself notes that a large percentage do not know any Falashas. It is completely understandable that people prefer to stick with what they are familiar with. Shmarya is as predictable as the atomic clock in Colorado and will probably counter that he can get inside people's heads and knows for an indisputable "fact" that they won't get to know any Falashas precisely because they are racist pigs.

Meretz and Shmarya of course view the "findings" as "worrying" that Haredim prefer not to go to schools that have a large number of Falashas. This is also just a harmless preference and the same would be true if the 40% were Russians or Bocharians.

It remains to be seen if Shmarya will attack with the same zeal, the parent of Exeter Academy in New Hampshire who would also look elsewhere if the school was 40% Black.

Shmarya and his ilk are mighty disappointed that they can force public school desegregation on the private sphere.

To be continued.

[Archie Bunker]

READ that they can NOT force public school desegregation on the private sphere.

[Archie Bunker]

It's surprising that Shmarya didn't promote these fringe ideas on Chanukkah as well.

http://www.thejewishweek.com/viewArticle/c311_a1413/Bakeries/Specialties_.html

Greens, Atheists Attack Chanukah
Candles cause global warming, Maccabees compared to Osama.

[David Bar-Magen]

So this is Shmarya's Great Expose of how haredim are bigoted? Wow. Can you imagine? The most segregated community in Israel doesn't like outsiders. Who'da thunk?

He does seem a bit flustered, though, that ANY haredim would "welcome" an Ethiopian into the family. He posits that there must have been an abnormally large overrepresentation of sefaradi haredim, and delivers his coup-de-grace in the form of ANECDOTAL evidence (which he has continuously derided when coming from an opponent) that haredim internationally feel the same way as the Israeli ones.

Shmarya, Shmarya. Why grasp desperately at the painfully obvious? You'd find the exact same or similar results in any ghettoized community of a single race and/or mentality, and it's patently pathetic how you try to spin this.

But of course, it only follows the standard Shmarya-on-Haredim format, as I've outlined before:

Step One: Something bad happens.

Step Two: Haredim do not react to that Something Bad with as much zeal and virtue as Shmarya does.

Step Three: Therefore, all haredim are scum.

As you so often tell others, Shmarya, you are presenting an argument far below what you're capable of.

[Archie Bunker]

"Haredim are the most racist and bigoted subset of Jews in Israel."

Patently FALSE statement.

The secularists have a burning hatred of religious Jews who they despise more than Arabs. While it may be a minority who break into yeshivas and synagogues to rip apart Torah scrolls and leave severed pig heads laying around, the rest are like the Muslims who quietly agree with Arab terrorism.

I have heard from irreligious (both indifferent and sympathetic) Israelis in corporate Israel, including El Al headquarters, how the average chiloni is consumed and obsessed with hatred of the Orthodox who they often refer to as "shvartzas" or a Hebrew equivalent.

[Archie Bunker]

I forgot to mention that Russians in Israel beat up Falashas all the time, so times in riot form, because of their color.

Has Shmarya ever gotten worked up on Failed Messiah over those incidents?

There is no lack of news coverage in this area.

[Archie Bunker]

READ sometimes in riot form

[Archie Bunker]

When I used to work in investment banking, there was a small group sporting yarmulkas that headed out to Israel from Wall St to negotiate a deal. For lunch, a VP with an American bank, who is an Israeli based in Israel, insisted on going to a treif restaurant in Tel Aviv. The bankers were shocked at his rude disregard for them but they said nothing and did not eat. The Israeli chazir decided to do it cannibal style and ordered pork. before he dug in, he immaturely announced that he is eating pig and forced the others there to acknowledge that they heard him. He fressed like a glutton who hadn't seen food in days like a scene with the fat kid out of "Charlie & the Chocolate Factory".

[Anon]

http://theantitzemach.blogspot.com/2007/12/torah-never-forgets.html

[Anna S]

My mother says she'd rather have me marry a goy than a black Jew. Blah. That's disgusting.

[Archie Bunker]

"Haredism survives by creating ghettos and by demonizing the Other."

Shmarya, face it. In your anger, you are becoming completely detached from reality.
You might be using a group-specific code word but it's obvious you are attacking all of orthodoxy save for the Avi Weiss / Saul Berman types.

Orthodoxy has survived because of adherence to the Torah. All the great empires from Greece to Rome to elsewhere have fallen but the Jews remain. Jews who think they can water down the religion have also become completely assimilated and lost. From ancient times and soon to be the Conservative and Reform will meet the same fate but the orthodox remain.

The Wall St Journal once mocked Andrew Sullivan for speaking of "generations of gays" when gays do not have generations. Certainly someone so bitter that he resorts to attacking the orthodox while he remains a bachelor will not have an heir and will disappear even faster than the above mentioned peoples while the orthodox who you declare the public enemy will live on in perpetuity.

[Shmarya]

"Haredism survives by creating ghettos and by demonizing the Other."

Shmarya, face it. In your anger, you are becoming completely detached from reality.
You might be using a group-specific code word but it's obvious you are attacking all of orthodoxy save for the Avi Weiss / Saul Berman types.

Orthodoxy has survived because of adherence to the Torah. All the great empires from Greece to Rome to elsewhere have fallen but the Jews remain. Jews who think they can water down the religion have also become completely assimilated and lost. From ancient times and soon to be the Conservative and Reform will meet the same fate but the orthodox remain.No, Ab. I was very clear. Haredim and haredism have survived because of their self-created ghettos and the demonization of the Other, two tendencies sociologists and historians who study haredism note.

[Archie Bunker]

"Historically the ghetto was imposed on Jews from the outside."

And many great rabbis lamented the end of the ghetto era because they knew intermarriage was on the horizon.

[Archie Bunker]

"tendencies sociologists and historians who study haredism note."

That's hilarious. We're talking here about blowhards like Samuel Heilman, who incredibly, get paid to hear themselves talk silly psychobabble.

Shmarya cannot deal with the main point that Haredi Jews are the only civilization to have survived throughout the millenia so he resorts to smearing them.

[Archie Bunker]

Shmarya's diatribes are incredibly similar to classic anti-Semitic literature.

No credit is given to religious Jews as the oldest civilization on Earth, instead he seeks every far fetched way to demonize them.

[Archie Bunker]

It should be noted that so called mainstream experts on Oprah and other venues have opined that mixed race marriages are inappropriate and these lovers are selfish in regard to the children who are spawned from such unions.

So are all the big talkers here, Shmarya included, going to run out to miscegenate with Black partners?

Put your money where your ....

Well, nevermind actually.

The point is you don't have to be racist to be against the wholesale production of mixed raced babies.

[Shmarya]

David Bar Magen –

If 25% of haredim polled would not object to their children marrying Ethiopian Jews then one of the three following statements must be true:

1. The question was phrased in a way to eliminate any question about the authenticity of Ethiopian Jews' Jewishness, such as "If leading rabbis of the haredi sector ruled Ethiopian Jews are full Jews and do not need any conversion …" or "If all Ethiopian Jews converted according to halakha, would you object if your son or daughter …"

2. If the question was instead written this way, "Would you object if your son or daughter married …", with no qualification about Jewish status of Ethiopian Jews, then more than 25% of the haredim surveyed would have been Sefardim because Sefardi rabbis like Ovadia Yosef do not require any conversion of Ethiopian Jews. Unless, that is, you think 25% of haredim would not object if their children married non-Jews. Of course, this is, to say the least, not likely.

3. A large number of haredim lied to the survey takers and claimed not to care if their children married Ethiopian Jews when in reality they would most certainly care and object to such a marriage.

[C-Girl]

Whoever takes a call at home and devotes 20 to 40 minutes of unpaid time which is what many polls demand, is a useless boob with too much free time on their hands.

Interesting comment from someone whose posting frequency seems to indicate a lot of time on his own hands.

[Archie Bunker]

This is where Shmarya & UOJ part company. UOJ is rightfully unsettled by the recent hijacking of the Haredi world by corrupt individuals. Shmarya on the other hand has made it his life's goal to construct a slanderous revisionist history that goes back thousands of years.

[Archie Bunker]

C-Girl,

I am currently busy with a high volume of phone consultations with clients. I have a short intervals between each call and I sometimes post during the phone call itself when it's some boring yenta who can't stop talking.

[Shmarya]

No credit is given to religious Jews as the oldest civilization on Earth

That would be because "religious Jews" are NOT the "oldest civilization on earth."

[Anon]

Shmarya you have allowed your hatred of haredim to completely unhinge you. There are so many blatant holes in your reasoning that I have to assume that either you have let bigotry get the better of you or you have lost the power of reason. Even assuming the survey was properly taken and the questions properly phrased (highly unlikely considering the group that conducted this survey) there would still be no basis for your conjecture. For example consider the following. Even if you assumption (which is completely rediculous) is correct that the question was phrased in a manner so that it was clear that the Ethiopean was clearly jewish, did you factor into your logic, or lack thereof, that haredim generally prefer to only manner within the haredi community? You probably get the same result of you surveyed haredim about their reaction to marry a RZ whose status as a jew is beyond reproach. Same with respect to the question about Ethiopian friends. Did you compare the response to the percentage of ultra-orthodox that have non-ultra-orthodox friends (even among people that are clearly jewish and white)? Same deal with schools, did you check how many of the supposedly ultra-orthodox respondents would send their children to schools where 50% of the students were not ultra orthodox or for that matter even not from the same segment of ultra orthodoxy.

The study you referenced show absolutely nothing about the existence of ultra orthodox racism or the lack thereof. However, your response shows to a very high degree of certainty that Shmarya is a racist. Perhaps you should change the title of your blog to FailedKKK.

[Anon]

Please also note that the term "ultra-Orthodox" as used in Israel does not mean haredim. Haredim are also less likely to respond to such polls, thus they are likely underpresented in the pool of "ultra orthodox" that responded.

[Archie Bunker]

So Mr. Historian / jack of all trades & spades,

Who is the oldest civilization on Earth?

[Shmarya]

"tendencies sociologists and historians who study haredism note."

That's hilarious. We're talking here about blowhards like Samuel Heilman, who incredibly, get paid to hear themselves talk silly psychobabble.

That would include dozens of sociologist and historians, including Menachem Friedman and Marc Shapiro.

In other words, AB, you don't like the message so you attack the messenger.

Typical haredi BS on your part.

[Shmarya]

Chinese and South East Asian by far.

Haredism is a mid-to-late 18th century creation.

[Archie Bunker]

Shmarya and Meretz have the same motivation in their lust to bash orthodox Jews. I have also heard the Meretz types get all ga-ga about how Falashas are the best thing that ever happened to Israel because they are the perfect class of spy to work overseas for the Mossad. I wonder if they would have any use for these Blackies if not.

[Archie Bunker]

Menachem Friedman studies modern history specifically.

Shapiro, who is himself orthodox, does like to dredge up controversial items from any period in time but he does not impart anti-religious venom from what I've seen.

It was the yeshiva movement and Hasidism that started a few hundred years ago but they are the same basic religious Jews as always existed. Haredi is a recently minted term but could technically be applied as far back as the patriarchs.

"Chinese and South East Asian"

Considering that they are the bnei Keturah, the first orthodox Jew, Abraham, would predate them. At least according to some opinions that are laid out by the sefer Parshas Derachim. Shmarya is only correct according to the opinion that Jewry started with Mount Sinai.

[Shmarya]

It was the yeshiva movement and Hasidism that started a few hundred
years ago but they are the same basic religious Jews as always existed.
Haredi is a recently minted term but could technically be applied as
far back as the patriarchs.This is perhaps the craziest statement I've seen this month, maybe this year. All available evidence contradicts what you write. You'd know that, AB, if you weren't so busy dismissing out of hand anything and everything that challenges you.

"Chinese and South East Asian"

Considering that they are the bnei Keturah, the first orthodox Jew,
Abraham, would predate them. At least according to some opinions that
are laid out by the sefer Parshas Derachim. Shmarya is only correct
according to the opinion that Jewry started with Mount Sinai.This si a close second. Really, AB, you just don't realize how crazy you sound.

[Archie Bunker]

I hate to burst Shmarya's bubble but the prism from which he views things at his lonely outpost is really distorting his perception.

Shmarya is refering to the great rabbis of the 17 to 1800s such as the Gaon of Vilna. Except that there is a decline when further removed from Mount Sinai. There is no difference between the Gaon of Vilna, Rashi, Mar bar Rav Ashi of the Talmud, Rabbi Meir of the Mishna, Moses and the Patriarchs.

Even if your only "education" is watching the motion picture "The 10 Commandments", you might be able to figure that out. Certainly, any honest person who knows his head from his foot think's it's Shmarya who's off his rocker.

[Abe]

>I am currently busy with a high volume of phone consultations with clients. I have a short intervals between each call and I sometimes post during the phone call itself when it's some boring yenta who can't stop talking.

Posted by: Archie Bunker | December 13, 2007 at 01:26 PM <

I didn't no that operating a phone sex business could be so boring yet lucrative. You must have a very high voice to fool all of those horny yentas.

[Shmarya]

There are no academic historians who believe that, Ab.

[Archie Bunker]

And most scientists claim Genesis never happened.

So?

I don't mean to impart any Catholic overtones but you and your Darwinian friends are in for a big surprise at the "End of Days".

[Lionel Jefferson]

Shmarya, face it. In your anger, you are becoming completely detached from reality.
You might be using a group-specific code word but it's obvious you are attacking all of orthodoxy save for the Avi Weiss / Saul Berman types.

I was about to say, "And the charedim attack all Jewish groups except their own." However, that wil just be more rhetoric back and forth.

Instead, I'm interested in reading your words of praise for the Orthodoxy practiced by "the Avi Weiss / Saul Berman types," how you are fully accepting of its legitimacy, how you have deep respect for the leaders of this group of Orthodoxy as well as those who practice it, and how - though you might have problems with some particulars - you have no problem with it as a whole.

If you feel that Shmarya is just "attacking" out of hatred and nonacceptance of your side, then prove him wtong and show respect, love, and acceptance of (what you claim is) his version of Orthodoxy.

[A reader]

Well his version of 'orthodoxy' as shown throughout this blog if you take a look around is that the exodus never happened because there hasn't been evidence dug up by the "academics." That was never orthodoxy and it isn't now. Open your eyes.

[Shmarya]

Well his version of 'orthodoxy' as shown throughout this blog if you take a look around is that the exodus never happened because there hasn't been evidence dug up by the "academics."

No. My point is that there is much scientific evidence that CONTRADICTS the exodus, the flood, etc., and often no evidence to support these fables.

BTW, Sa'adia Gaon, recognizing the problems with many Genesis fables, noted that all should be taken as allegory if science contradicts them. Sa'adia Gaon live about 1000 years ago, and his view was a normative Jewish view before the rise of haredism.

[R]

"Shmarya cannot deal with the main point that Haredi Jews are the only civilization to have survived throughout the millenia so he resorts to smearing them."

who says it was charedi jews? The haredim of the past were not half as crazy as the ones of today. If judaism was like this 3000 years ago they would have never left egypt, they would have been too busy making sure they were keeping to the chumras instead of doing what was actually asked of them. The ultra orthodox rabbis are not leaders, they are political figures blinded by greed and power, with no respect towards others. They no longer care about the people, they only care about chumras and forcing others to do as they say. If you don't, then you aren't frum and can't go to their schools even though they are comprehensives due to the government giving them money to run it. They can't care less to chazer off the society they live in and give nothing back apart from their bigotry in return.

[Jim the Catholic]

>And most scientists claim Genesis never happened.

Technically no bonafide scientist would say that since it would be asserting a negative that is not scientificaly testable.

[Jim the Catholic]

>No. My point is that there is much scientific evidence that CONTRADICTS the exodus, the flood, etc., and often no evidence to support these fables.

Ah-Ha!!!! I knew it! Shmarya has a dogmatic anti-supernaturalist bias!:-)

[lakewoodshmuck]

how angry would you be if your daughter wanted to marry a lubob shliach?

[Yochanan Lavie]

Jim ben Yaakov writes: "In my experince there is a lot of underlying racism among a lot of Jewish people toward blacks. But to be fair there is a lot of anti-Semtism among blacks toward Jews. At least in my experience."

I think it's more complicated than that. Non-Orthodox Jews (by far the vast majority) are generally Liberal and not racist. (At least not consciously. One can argue that liberalism is condescending towards minorities, but that's another issue).

Among Orthodox Jews there tends to be more racism; the blacker the hat the more they hate black skin. But again, there are many exceptions. My Modern Orthodox friends are emphatically not racist. But I have MO who are. I have even met a Chabadnik who clearly wasn't a racist- so it's down to the individual. (Too much generalization is, well, racist...).

AS for blacks, unfortunately that's statistically true- except for the many exceptions I have met. And some of my students I have may have turned around, because their prejudices were based on ignorance.

Although I don't buy the Art Scroll view of history that Moshe Rabbeinu wore a shtreimel, and Judaism hasn't changed one bit in 2000 years, Archie is correct in pointing out the obnoxious behavior of the anti-religious (as opposed to the merely non-religious). They even view an apikorus like me, whom Archie would consider a Meathead, as a religious fanatic.

Jim: I agree that Shmarya is a bit dogmatic (even though I like the dude personally). Yet I am not an ultra-literalist either. I think it is possible to be open to the possibility of the supernatural, and take the leap of faith, w/o reading Genesis/Bereishit like a protestant fundamentalist, or rejecting science. Like Saadia, and I think the Rambam, I think the torah is the word of God but is partly allegorical.

(You know Alle-gory. He won the Nobel Prize, LOL).

(I am not sure even all Karaites would be ultra-ultra literalists, since they emphasize individual interpretation of Tanach rather than blind allegience to leaders. Those who know, respond).

[Yosef ben Matitya]

reb yochanan
without ref to this subject, a letter published recently by the qaraites of israel, that sheds some light on some of their attitudes and positions. :-)
הנושא: גיור בני אומות העולם ליהדות
הקראית עם הגעת המועדים עלינו לברכה זכותנו
להביא לידיעת הציבור התפתחות חשובה בתולדות
עדתנו. ב-31 ליולי 2007 עדת היהודים הקראים
קיבלה 14 חברים חדשים מבני אומות העולם
שהתגיירו ליהדות הקראית. מועצת החכמים לא
חיפשה את האנשים האלה אלא הם פנו אליה
מרצונם החופשי ומתוך אמונה תמימה. בעקבות
פניות אלה מועצת החכמים למדה את נושא הגיור
במשך מספר שנים ולאחר חקירה אינטנסיבית
במקרא ובספרי חכמינו החליטה שהגיע העת
ליישם את המצווה הזו. לפני שש שנים הרב הראשי
לשעבר הרב חיים בן יצחק הלוי כתב את
הדברים הבאים בעניין הגיור: "דת ישראל ובמיוחד הקראות איננה
מונופוליסטית וכשמה כן הוא, והעובדות לכך בתורה
ובנביאי ישראל הנן רבות עד אין סוף זה
בנוסף למובא על ידך, גם בספר ישעיהו יד,א. וכן
בכל ספרי חכמינו ע"ה ובמיוחד בספר אשכול
הכופר לרבי יהודה הדסי זצ"ל פרק קל"ג מאות
ל' והלאה. יצוין שיחסו של המחבר לגרי הצדק
הנו חיובי עד מאוד. כמוהו כל חכמינו ע"ה,
גם מה שהדבר מוצא את ביטויו בתפילותינו
בכל בתי הכנסת בכל שבת ושבת. ההלכה קובעת
להתגיירות שלושה תנאים ואלו הם: א) ברית
מילה. ב) רחיצה. ג) הרצה, דהיינו קיום המצוות
הלכה למעשה לאחר לימודם." בתורה כתוב שלאחר שהגר נימול ומקבל על
עצמו את עול המצוות: "וְהָיָה כְּאֶזְרַח
הָאָרֶץ". הכוונה שהגר נעשה כמו כל יהודי
מלידה ולכן "תּוֹרָה אַחַת יִהְיֶה לָאֶזְרָח
וְלַגֵּר הַגָּר בְּתוֹכְכֶם". הנביא
יחזקאל מלמד שבאחרית הימים הגר אף יקבל חלק
ונחלה של ארץ ישראל יחד עם צאצאי יעקב
אבינו: וְהָיָה תַּפִּלוּ אוֹתָהּ בְּנַחֲלָה
לָכֶם וּלְהַגֵּרִים הַגָּרִים בְּתוֹכְכֶם
אֲשֶׁר הוֹלִדוּ בָנִים בְּתוֹכְכֶם,
וְהָיוּ לָכֶם כְּאֶזְרָח בִּבְנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל,
אִתְּכֶם יִפְּלוּ בְנַחֲלָה בְּתוֹךְ
שִׁבְטֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל: וְהָיָה בַשֵּׁבֶט אֲשֶׁר
גָּר הַגֵּר אִתּוֹ, שָׁם תִּתְּנוּ
נַחֲלָתוֹ נְאֻם אֲדֹנָי ה': כפי שהרב חיים הזכיר במכתבו הנ"ל מזה
שנים אנחנו מברכים את הגרים בתפילותינו כול
שבת וכוונתו ל"ברכה הראשונה" לאחר הוצאת
ספר התורה. בברכה הזו אנו מברכים את בני
עדתנו ברחבי העולם ובין היתר את "האלמנים
והאלמנות וגרי הצדק הנמצאים בקהילותיהם."
ברכה זו מלמדת שאבותינו קיבלו גרים
לקהילותיהם הלכה למעשה. דוגמא לכך אנו מוצאים
בספרי ההיסטוריה על קבוצה של נוצרים
שהגיעה מספרד למצרים בשנת 1465 כדי להתגייר
ליהדות הקראית. אבותינו קיבלו את הגויים
האלה בברכה ואף התגאו בכך שהם ראו את
האמיתות של דרכנו ושבחרו להתגייר דווקא ליהדות
הקראית. על חובתנו כלפי הגר אנו לומדים מדברי ר'
יהודה הדסי בספרו אשכול הכפר: עלינו לקיים דברי תורתנו שאמרה
"וַאֲהַבְתֶּם אֶת הַגֵּר כִּי גֵרִים הֱיִיתֶם
בְּאֶרֶץ מִצְרָיִם" … הגר הוא תם וישר,
ובישרוּתו האמין בה' ובטח בו, וראוי לנו לכבדוֹ,
כאיש הישר שאינו יודע העיקר ונדבק
משמועה עם אנשי הצדק ובעלי האמונה לפני ה'
ליחדוֹ: וראה ועשה כמעשה הצדיקים ונוצל ונושע
מנקמת אלוהים: ר' יהודה הדסי דיבר על חובתנו לכבד את הגר
הבוּר – דוגמת רות המואבייה – שמתגייר
מתוך יראת אלוהים פשוטה ואמונה תמימה באל
האחד והיחיד בלי שלמד את התורה לעומקה.
ואולם במציאות של המאה ה-21 מועצת החכמים
אישרה תוכנית לימודים אינטנסיבית שכול
מועמד חייב לעבור לפני שהוא מתקבל לגיור.
ואם הצטווינו לכבד את הגר הבור על אחת כמה
וכמה שעלינו לכבד ולהעריך את הגר שלמד את
עיקרי האמונה ואת מצוות התורה. בהזדמנות של הגעת המועדים ושל הצטרפותם
של 14 יהודים קראים חדשים מאומות העולם
אנו מברכים: ברוך אתה ה', אלוהינו מלך העולם,
שהחיינו וקיימנו והגיענו לזמן הזה, אמן
ואמן. יהי רצון מלפני ה' אלוהינו שבני
אומות העולם יתעוררו לדרכך, ושבני אחינו
הרבניים יראו את האמת של תורתך, ושבני עדתנו
יחזרו לשמור את מצוותיך, אמן ואמן. בכבוד רב, הרב אליהו מרזוק הרב הראשי לעדה - צוות הפורטל הראשון של היהודים הקראים
בישראל

[Yosef ben Matitya]

how angry would you be if your daughter wanted to marry a lubob shliach?

that's different. the shluchim are committed minim.
with the rest of mankind, it's on a case to case basis. a nice person is a nice person, a bad person is bad. with the shluchim, they are coming upfront and identifying themselves as minim upfront.

[Meyer]

Its so nice to see the "Oilam" beating up on old man Shmarya. Keep up the good work.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Thank you, Yosef.

[Lionel Jefferson]

Well his version of 'orthodoxy' as shown throughout this blog if you take a look around is that the exodus never happened because there hasn't been evidence dug up by the "academics." That was never orthodoxy and it isn't now. Open your eyes.

Go ahead, you're just proving Shmarya's point.

You know darn well that the Weiss/Berman/YCT Orthodoxy is really Orthodoxy. However, you choose to attack it. I gave Archie Bunker the opportunity to prove Shmarya wrong, but he hasn't chosen to do so yet. You took the challenge and used it to prove Shmarya right.

[Dave]

Yosef, I do not know enough Hebrew to understand enough of the post that you did on the Karaite Judaism positions/ attitudes. Is there a website from which I can download that in English? Please let me know.

[yona loriner]

i think shmarya should marry a nigger

[yona loriner]

i think shmarya should marry a nigger

[Yochanan Lavie]

think shmarya should marry a nigger

Posted by: yona loriner | December 14, 2007 at 08:03 AM

You mean like Moshe Rabbainu did? (Rabbinic apologetics aside). Ethiopian women are very attractive and Shmarya should be so lucky.

Meanwhile, the above post proves that many chareidi Jews are indeed racists. It is attitudes like these that have driven me from Orthodoxy and I know I am not the only one.

(Disclosure: I am not politically liberal on most issues, I think affirmative action is condescending b.s., and I still daven at an Orthodox synagogue because the other denominations are too PC for me).

[Spock and the Vulcans]

i think shmarya should marry a . . . "

I think you should get a life.

And watch your language.

Do you think that it is an insult to say that you hope someone marries a Black person? That's ridiculous. I have no qualms about marrying a Black person, whether an Ethiopian Jew or an African American Jew - either born Jewish or a convert.

But thank you for reinforcing the charedi stereotype and for helping to prove the findings of the survey and the premise of the post. Your contribution has been invaluable!

I'm sure that HaShem is very proud of you for saying that and that your comment brought Him great joy.

Keep up the good work, it's such a Kiddush HaShem.

[Jim the Catholic]

yona loriner
Unless you are black you are a VERY naughty person.

[shlomo the wise]

The torah says that aberham was worried that the egyptians would tak his wife because she was white and they never had seen a beutifull white woman.

[Yechiel the Ultra-orthodox]

Let's not be stupid. If someone's Jewish accordind to Moses that only means I am permitted to marry this person. No one is FORCING you to marry them.
Everyone knows that blond hair and blue eyes and Scandinavian features is more attractive then black skin (even Jewish black skin). According to the Medrish Says (an english collection), black skin was a punishment on Ham for having intercourse in the Ark, when it was prohibited.
Punishment fitting the crime (a sin commited in the DARK).

However I am incredibaly racist against blacks in America, And I want ALL back into slavery. Amen.

[Yechiel the Ultra-orthodox]

How come Shmarya doesn't go for a walk at night in a black neighborhood? Is it because he is racist?? Far vos nisht? tuchus cup!

[Yechiel the Ultra-orthodox]

This is my last post.

In my previous post I stated you are not FORCED to marry anyone. 2 things.

1. I meant within the Jewish people your not forced to marry against your will (Gemare Yevamos on the case of Muchas Shichin).

2. I DON'T advocate intermarrige. That would be like an Emporer marrying a stripper. End.

That would be like an Emporer marrying a stripper.

An emporer? Is that someone who runs an emporium? Why can't he marry a stripper?

[Yosef ben Matitya]

"because he is racist?? Far vos nisht? tuchus cup (sic)!"
sz yechiel.
as to me, i see that yechiel's cop is tuches having abandonned all logical methodology. with him are all his likes in unison. jews? i don't think so. stupid degenerate pilpul with prejudice has nothing to do with intelligence and everything to do with rish'us.

[Yosef ben Matitya]

אומרת הגמרא בשלושה מקומות שונים בשם רבי שמעון בר יוחאי: "אתם קרויים אדם ואין הגוים קרויים אדם" (יבמות ס"א עמ' א', בבא מציעא קי"ד עמ' ב', כריתות ו' עמ' א') וכן מובא בילקוט שמעוני (יחזקאל ל"ד סימן שע"ג).

imho,
it is rather those who hold these most foul positions that have lost in the field of being created in the image....

[Yechiel the Ultra-orthodox]

Let's reason.
If Africans are not inferior to whites then how come they don't discover cures for deseases?

Why is Switzerland more safe then, say Congo?

[Jesus Christ]

I hate niggers!

[The Prophet Mohhamed]

I really hate niggers!

[Buddah]

I really really hate niggers!

[God Almighty]

I really really really hate niggers!

[Martin Luther King Jr.]

I also hate niggers.

Let's reason.
If Africans are not inferior to whites then how come they don't discover cures for deseases?

Why is Switzerland more safe then, say Congo?

Let's reason.

If Americans are not inferior to Canadians, Swedes, Norwegians, and Bermudans, then how come they don't live as long?

Why does Japan have a longer life expectancy then, say, the U.S.?

[Jesus Christ]

Those studies included life expectantcy of niggers as well as whites. duh. (nigger smoocher)

[Yosef ben Matitya]

Why is Switzerland more safe then (sic), say Congo?
asks yechiel

i tell you why,
for the same reason that kenya, mali, zambia and many other black countries are safer than germany! (hell incarnate for 6 million jews only last century). germany i said? how about russia, hungary and ukraine. that short a memory u have?
or you are enamoured with white racists yours seem to love to emulate?
a case of stockholm syndrome. are we becoming like our persecutors? have we lost any semblance of shame?

Those studies included life expectantcy of n-----s as well as whites. duh.

Right! And Bermuda is full of BLACK PEOPLE and they have a HIGHER life expectancy than Americans. So, a country with a majority Black population still beats the American longevity. And JAPAN is full of ASIAN people (non-whites, in your lingo) and they have the highest life expectancy of all.

(n----- smoocher)

Thanks! My ex was an incredible kisser. And I'd appreciate it if you didn't refer to her with such terms, especially since she is clearly your superior by any measure of intelligence, ambition, success, and humanity.

Since I'm Sephardic, you probably already consider me to be a "polluted" wog, anyway. So don't try to convince me of any of your white pride nonsense.

You must be a self-hating Jew: you probably think to yourself that if only you weren't Jewish, then you could join the KKK and be around people who you could really relate to.

Well, I'll stop here. You probably have to get going now to brush your tooth and tune up the banjo.

[Isa]

To those that use the 'N' word.
I once denounced a guy at work that used it in a story as a KKK guy.
Story:
Late at nite at a all night diner a group of African Americans were loud, and this moron goes over to them and says to them "You are a bunch of nxxxers" Well they slapped him around. Then the cops come. First cop on the scene was an African American and the moron calls him a nxxxer. On goes the iron braclet and spends the nite in jail.

How would YOU like it if some anti-semite told the Volkswagen joke at work? "how many Jews fit in the VW? 3 in front, 3 in back and 6 million in the ash tray???

The effect of my denouncing the KKK moron is that he got pushed out of the department and into another.

[Eitan Dayan]

Can you say, "self-hating Jew?"

Shmarya, you momzer, you are no better than Noam Chomsky. You debate with fallacious arguments, and you have absolutely no respect for any in the frum community. Accept that you nothing about what you are talking about, get married, and let go of your angst.

[Shmarya]

Can you say, "KKK apologist"?

Wow, you sure have compiled a list of grievances, most of which probably don't affect anyone reading this
blog. And most of which don't apply to most Islamic countries.

You don't think that Shmarya has read about 1,000,000 of these kinds of posts on his blog?

If you have any insightful argument to make, about the issue at hand then make it. These ad hominem attacks contribute nothing to the discussion.

Or, if you really want to prove him wrong, take the "Lionel Jefferson Challenge" (see post somewhere above for more details), which in short says:

"If you feel that Shmarya is just "attacking" out of hatred and nonacceptance of your side, then prove him wtong (sic) and show respect, love, and acceptance of (what you claim is) his version of Orthodoxy."

Can you say, "self-hating Jew?"

Shmarya, you momzer, you are no better than Noam Chomsky. You debate with fallacious arguments, and you have absolutely no respect for any in the frum community. Accept that you nothing about what you are talking about, get married, and let go of your angst.

You don't think that Shmarya has read about 1,000,000 of these kinds of posts on his blog?

If you have any insightful argument to make, about the issue at hand then make it. These ad hominem attacks contribute nothing to the discussion.

Or, if you really want to prove him wrong, take the "Lionel Jefferson Challenge" (see post somewhere above for more details), which in short says:

"If you feel that Shmarya is just "attacking" out of hatred and nonacceptance of your side, then prove him wtong (sic) and show respect, love, and acceptance of (what you claim is) his version of Orthodoxy."

[Yechiel the Ultra-orthodox]

I love Blacks. I think everyone should own one.

[Yechiel the Ultra-orthodox]

I love JEWS. Here is a poem I have composed for JEWS:

Over the Earth, in every land. On every inch. Are the Jews (and Chabad too).
They have no blemish (even converts).
They never do wroung (like my song).
I only marry them, gentiles are in Cherem.
My love for the Jews is so deep, They are in my dreams when I sleep.
Even if they are athiests I love them still, since they are am haaretz.
If they are seriel killers I love them still, since they are mentally ill and didn't kill on purpose.
If they steal it's because the gentiles have badly influenced them.
They have the best midos.
They are all erlich and yummy.
They are made of sugar and spice and everything nice.
Who can praise them?
It will never be enough!
Their souls are like diamonds.
Their beuty is so great!
I love them! I love them!
From Mel Brooks to the Gerrer Rebbe I love them all!

I AM NOT BEING SARCASTIC!

[Yechiel The Ultra-orthodox]

Since we're talking about Jokes, partner...

Joe Lieberman asked God, "Will a Jew ever be President?"
God answered, "Not in your life time".
Hillary Clinton asked God, "Will a woman ever be President?"
God answered, "Not in your life time".
Then a black guy asked God, "Will a black man ever be President?"
God answered: "Not in my life time!"

[Nigger Niggerson Jr.]

nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger

loser loser loser loser loser loser loser loser loser loser loser loser loser loser loser loser loser loser loser loser loser loser

loser

[Orangejello Jamal Jackson Jr.]

I am black. I am insulted by this sites publshing the "n" word. Whoever is in control of this site is not sensitive to blacks and should be fined $5ooo.
Blacks have made numerous contributions to society. In fact the top Basketball athletes are black. Blacks also were the first people to have sex with animals. Dr. Lemonjello Wilson Jr. invented AIDs following experiments with man on chimpanzee intercourse.
Dr. Condoleeza Rice Jr. is woking hard on making peace in the Middle East.
Dr. Micheal Jackson Jr. is a world reknown black dancer and singer.
Dr. Mike Tyson Jr. is a successfull boxing athlete.
Please, let us all recognize the wonderfull inner-cities of America, created by the hard work of millions of single black mothers. End the racisism and we all will play basketball together.

loser

[Lev]

Yechiel, YBM might be right:some Botswana is safer for frum Jew than City of Brussels, for example, and forget(or don't) about WHITE Ukrains, Belaruses,etc

[Lev]

MT, UNLIKE many other Chasidisms, all presented in our favorite Munsey, Mashichisten never ever sympathized with other nations who ALSO were under foreign rule!
Yechiel, YBM might be very much right: some Botswana is probably safer for frum Jews then City of Brussels, forget(or don't) about WHITE Ukrains, Belaruses, etc.

[sh]

thiopia - Frum Doctor Treating The Ill In Ethiopia Called A Hero.
Ethiopia - Rick Hodes, who runs the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee's medical program in Ethiopia is too busy treating destitute cancer patients in Ethiopia. The Johns Hopkins-trained physician oversees treatment for thousands of people in Addis Ababa seeking to immigrate to Israel.

Hodes spends his free time at Mother Teresa?s Mission in Addis Ababa - also sponsored by the JDC - where he and a group of nuns care for people suffering from such illnesses as tuberculosis, malaria and cancer. He has taken several of his younger patients into his home and paid out of pocket for their treatment. [haaretz]

posted by Shlomah Shamos @ 12/18/2007 02:55:00 PM 10 Comments Links to

[Shmarya]

Try to process:

1. Dr. Rick Hodes is NOT haredi.

2. The readers of this blog raised almost $1800 for Rick's nonsectarian work this year.

[Eitan Dayan]

Anyone can tell from reading this blog that Shmarya has a bias the size of the Titanic.

A person with a blog has a bias?

How perceptive of you!

Thank you for enlightening us!

[Yechiel the Ultra-orthodox]

Hi Fans! I'm sorry I took such a long break from you. Some posters brang up a GREAT point! Every gentile nation has abused the Jews. White/Black and everyone in between!
This means they all will be killed by the Messiah who by the way is not mendy.
I might be the messiah, but my phsycologist is skeptical.

[Kushite]

Its a shame to see some Jew racists.Who is more "Jewish" than Moses but married to an Ethiopian woman ? ...one thing ...having a blond hair and green eyes, if one boasts as a "pure" Jew ...humm ...so funny ...i believe those who did DNA study on unearthened remains from biblical time know what i mean ...