No Foreplay, No Affection, No Love – Sex And The Married Gerrer Hasid

Frequent FM commenter MalachHamovies comments on Harry Maryles blog:

I heard from a extremely reliable source that gerrer men:

1) cannot show any affection towards their wives (chibuk v'neishuk) even during intimacy

2)cannot be with their wife (outside of mikva night) unless they get permission from their "kommadent" (superior)

3) wives must walk in back of husbands

4) After giving birth wife cannot go to mikvah for 1/2 year

I heard they have alot of weird "kedusha vtahara" issues which was instituted by the gerrer rebbe Bais Yisroel (obviously molesting boys isn't part of k'disha v'taharu) that has nothing to do with shulchan aruch.

And people thought chabad was nuts ?

Can you conform any of this ?

Another commenter there replies:

MH: I do know that Ger does not believe in foreplay, they hold it is assur [forbidden], as for walking behind, that is common knowledge.…

Is this really true? If it is, what a disgusting perverse variant of haredi Judaism Ger has turned out to be.

Comments

[Mordecai]

Maybe Renee has some interesting comments on this point from her personal experience.

Dr. Ruth wrote a book entitled: Heavenly Sex, Sexuality in the Jewish Tradition.

See: http://www.amazon.com/Heavenly-Sex-Jewish-Tradition/dp/0814792685

One of the reviews bashed the book as follows so based upon the review it is A MUST READ:

I read this book and was appalled by the Orthodox bashing and the inordinate amount of time spent on Orthodoxy and how it handles closet homosexuality. She said nothing about appropriate sexual behavior according to halacha. Furthermore, although she spent some time on the Laws of Niddah, most of that time was spent exaggerating the problem of impotence or premature ejaculation as a possible problem of Orhtodox observance of sexual practice. I was so glad that I purchased "heavenly sex" in a used book store and paid a fraction of what the cover price because the book itself was a TREMEMDOUS DISAPOINTMENT. All I can say is Dr. Ruth is tremendously ignorant about Orthodox Judaism.

[Mordecai]

Dr. Ruth wrote a book entitled: Heavenly Sex, Sexuality in the Jewish Tradition.

See: http://www.amazon.com/Heavenly-Sex-Jewish-Tradition/dp/0814792685

One of the reviews bashed the book as follows so based upon the review it is A MUST READ:

I read this book and was appalled by the Orthodox bashing and the inordinate amount of time spent on Orthodoxy and how it handles closet homosexuality. She said nothing about appropriate sexual behavior according to halacha. Furthermore, although she spent some time on the Laws of Niddah, most of that time was spent exaggerating the problem of impotence or premature ejaculation as a possible problem of Orhtodox observance of sexual practice. I was so glad that I purchased "heavenly sex" in a used book store and paid a fraction of what the cover price because the book itself was a TREMEMDOUS DISAPOINTMENT. All I can say is Dr. Ruth is tremendously ignorant about Orthodox Judaism.

[lakewoodshmuck]

those rumors are a load of bs. in public they have some restrictions but at home . . . like the rest of us

[Isa]

Regarding:
""""2)cannot be with their wife (outside of mikva night) unless they get permission from their "kommadent" (superior)""""

What does this statement mean? cannot have sex? Unless they have permission?!!

[Shmarya]

Yes.

[anon]

I hope Avrohom Mondrowitz is reincarnated as a Gerrer wife.

[Dr Fred]

The truly sad part about all this is not the alleged restrictions imposed, but the fact that people will submit to them, thinking that by doing so they are getting "closer to God". In reality, they are demeaning themselves and diminishing their true task, viz., to contribute by expressing the individualty they learn to despise.

[Isa]

Regarding:""""I hope Avrohom Mondrowitz is reincarnated as a Gerrer wife.""""
No need to wait for reincarnation-this awaits him in prison

[Anon]

Mr. Schmuck:

You are either ignorant or a liar. Gur is notorious for their repression of norman sexuality and the Rebbe's perverse control over his chassidim's private lives.

Your hero, Harav Shach was prepared to engage in a jihad along the lines of his attack on Chabad but backed off due to the political ramifications. Pity.

Gur has become a cult.

[MalachHamovies]

Shmayra,

Thanks for quoting me. I'm honored.

I'm not making any of this stuff up. It is an open secret that the non-gerrer chasiddishe community in Israel WILL NOT take a gerrer boy due to all the restrictions that i mentioned.

Furthermore the gerrer girls school - Bais Yakkov D'gur in brooklyn was formed with the intention to have shidduchim for the gerrer boys in america. Until that school was formed gerrer boys had to be meshadech with a gerrer family in Israel.

The gerrer and non-gerrer chasidishe girls in NY who were going to a bais yaakov (or any other chassidishe girls school like Tomar Devorah) DID NOT want to marry gerrer boys. Again, that's the reason why the girls school was created.

[Anon]

Harry Maryles refuses to post the names of the "cover-up rabbis" unless he is provided proof.

Harry poses an interesting conundrum. I have proof. So do others who were at several meetings with those named. These meetings took place in 1982 and 1983. Time travel is not yet a reality so what do you suggest?

The bottom line is that these rabbis knew what was happening and to save Ohel and Torah Umesorah from a possible lawsuit they sat silently while Mondrowitz sodomized boy after boy after boy after boy.

Wait: Ohel and Torah Umesorah did stop referring boys to Mondrowitz. I guess that’s something. Oh, and Ohel warned him that if he continued counseling boys and they found out about they would report him. That’s also something.

So perhaps we shouldn’t be upset that these cover-up rabbis refused to take a public stand and stop him from continuing his private counseling. Maybe it’s not so bad that Ohel and Torah Umesorah violated NY State law and refused to report Mondrowitz to the authorities. Ohel did use their famous “stick” and threaten to report him. That must have saved a boy or two. And besides, many of these boys were troubled anyway, they were going for counseling.

See, it wasn’t that big a deal after all.

[chief doofis]

I know a few Gerer Chassidim. Not much different than the run of the mill Chassidim. Let's get real. No-one knows what we do in our bedrooms, nor do we know what goes on in Gerrer bedrooms. If someone, a Rebbe, Rabbi, etc., publicly says something silly (as in recent post about Rabbi Eliyahu), moronic (as in Rabbi Scheinberg's "p'sak" in the Kolko case), repugnant (as in Rabbi Scheinberg's "p'sak in the Kolko case), let's get 'em boys. If we THINK that Gerer guys have unusual sexual quirks, let's think to ourselves.

The blogosphere has done a lot of "clean-up" work in the Orthodox community, and hopefully, will get more done. Let's not ruin our credibility. There's enough to go after without invading the privacy of innocents.

[Meyer]

"Is this really true? If it is, what a disgusting perverse variant of haredi Judaism Ger has turned out to be."

I don't follow. Ger keeps these restrictions private among their members. They don't seek to enforce it among non Gerrers. The proof is that you along with many others never even knew about it.

Seriously, why is it your freakin business what Ger requires of it members?

[MalachHamovies]

Kommandanten -Commmandant- European military rank for Major is a term that's used by gerrer rebbes and chassidim . They are married men that teach the bachurim and young men specific halachas about intimacy and other halachas.

For a number of years (i don't know how many years) after marriage the kommadanten basically control and monitor the life of the young couple.

[Meyer]

"Is this really true? If it is, what a disgusting perverse variant of haredi Judaism Ger has turned out to be."

I don't follow. Ger keeps these restrictions private among their members. They don't seek to enforce it among non Gerrers. The proof is that you along with many others never even knew about it.

Seriously, why is it your freakin business what Ger requires of it members?

[Isa]

Regarding:""""Seriously, why is it your freakin business what Ger requires of it members?""""
For instance some chassidishe girl can run away a Ger boy and marry, for instance, a Chabadnic. With my own eyes I seen Chabad treat women a whole lot better than your typical black hatter. This whole blog is devoted to illuminate dumb, stupid and plain rotten evil.

[MalachHamovies]

Why should we be concerned if chabad chassidim think that their rebbe is g-d or moshaich ??

Because it's nuts and a perversion of orthodox judaism. It's the same with ger.

There is no difference between ger and any other wacko group like chabad. Ger just hid it better.

And they protected mondrowitz the same way they protect their weird sexual chumras.

[Meyer]

"For instance some chassidishe girl can run away a Ger boy and marry, for instance, a Chabadnic. With my own eyes I seen Chabad treat women a whole lot better than your typical black hatter."

Can you repeat that in a more comprehensible english instead of the piece of babble that you wrote?

[Meyer]

>Because it's nuts and a perversion of orthodox judaism. It's the same with ger.

So then, you agree that the Rabbis are fully entitled to say that reform reeks of hell because "it's nuts and a perversion of orthodox judaism". Is that right?

[MalachHamovies]

Meyer,

I haven't really though about it. Give me a day or so to get back to you. I'll give you my answer at that time.

[MalachHamovies]

Meyer,

I haven't really though about it. Give me a day or so to get back to you. I'll give you my answer at that time.

[Meyer]

>I haven't really though about it. Give me a day or so to get back to you. I'll give you my answer at that time.

You really need that much time to think about it?!

[MalachHamovies]

Meyer,

Yes. I need more time. I guess i can't think as quick as you. And i am tired. Good Night.

[Nigritude Ultramarine]

What does this statement mean? cannot have sex? Unless they have permission?!!

I take it that you haven't been in a cult before.

[Nigritude Ultramarine]

I hope Avrohom Mondrowitz is reincarnated as a Gerrer wife.

Oh, he'll be someone's wife soon enough.

[Shmarya]

What does this statement mean? cannot have sex? Unless they have permission?!!

I take it that you haven't been in a cult before.ROTFLMAO!

Nig, sometimes you just totally crack me up.

[Rach]

Can someone please look into this. As a woman, I am very interested/concerned.

What sexual shenanigans does Chabad have?

[Yiss]

Total BS. Have you ever seen a Gerrer couple walk down the street?

Shmarya, sometimes you believe give the impression you believe every negative thing you hear like some sort of antisemite who lives for it.

[Mordecai]

Meyer writes: Seriously, why is it your freakin business what Ger requires of it members?

It is our "freakin business" because the ultra orthodox purport to be the true Jews. It is out "freakin business" because they are judgmental and derisive of every non-Talmudic approved action we take while in their own lives evince hypocrisy of the highest order.

It is "our freakin business" because when they have power they try to ruthlessly enforce their Kool-Aid drinking brand of Judaism on the rest of us mere pedestrian Jews.

It is "our freakin business" because they, like the Stalinst pigs they are, put cherims on people who challenge their authority, expose thjem or mock them like Shmarya. It is our "freakin business" because the Ultra-Orthodox when empowered by numbers will throw rocks at our cars dare we drive through their neighborhoods in Israel. It is our "freakin business" because they will beat up women who do not move to the back of the bus and will enable alleged child molesters like Mondrowitz. They will ostracize us if we intermarry and will otherwise castigate and rebuke us in any of a multitude of manners.

However when not in power they revel in appearing like the benign rabbi in Fiddler on the Roof. It makes me sick when Chabad Rabbis are invited to the White House and appear at menorah lighting ceremonies with Governors when their theology equates the goy with the sub-human and themselves as the superior soul.

Yes, it IS our "freakin business."

[shmuel]

Ummm...that was pretty much right on.

[Mordecai]

Shmuley:

Thanks. From your posts you are a "right-on" type of guy too. I would count you in a manyan any day of the week.

[Friend of a Survivor]

I feel I have some useful insights to contribute to this discussion, but I am being scared away by the tone of many of the comments. Let me just say one thing and post another thing. First of all, I believe it was a charedi rav, Rabbi Dovid Cohen of Gvul Yaavetz in Flatbush, who exposed Mondrowitz, yemach shemo.

Second, the following letter from the Baltimore rabbonim really put the past mistakes and the present commitments very eloquently:

VAAD HARABBONIM
RABBINICAL COUNCIL OF GREATER BALTIMORE
April 11, 2007

Abuse in Our Community

There is no subject more painful for us to discuss than the issue of sexual abuse within our community. Yet at this point we believe it is the subject most necessary to address. We must acknowledge that this horrible form of abuse exists — and has existed for generations — in our community as well. This issue must be confronted directly and we believe that this discussion can be a first step towards the necessary and achievable goal of ridding our community of this scourge.

We feel it essential to discuss this matter directly with you, as the greatest allies of the abuser are ignorance and silence. The abuser preys on people who cannot understand that what he is doing to them is so very wrong. And the abuser thrives in an environment where he is confident that his victims will not report what they have experienced or where their reports of abuse will not be taken seriously. We therefore urge you to discuss this matter in a sensitive and non-alarming manner with your children so that they will clearly understand that they should forcefully refuse and immediately report inappropriate touch. They need to know that should, Heaven forbid, something like this ever occur to them, they will have somewhere to turn. And if they turn to you, you must respond compassionately, deliberately and with competent rabbinic and/or professional guidance, understanding that the thoughtful measure of your response will have enormous impact on your child's future.
We feel additionally compelled to discuss this issue openly in order to assist — in some small way — in the healing of survivors. Abuse often creates terrible confusion in the minds of its victims who may not understand the terrible wrong they have experienced, or who may blame themselves for the abuse. Addressing the issue clearly and definitively allows survivors of abuse to see that our contempt is reserved for those who violated them, whereas they — the survivors — are so richly deserving of our compassion and our respect.

We cannot speak with certainty to the prevalence of abuse in our community. It is clear however that any single abuser will often have many victims. Those who abuse within the family — and this horror absolutely does happen — often victimize numerous family members. A coach, camp counselor, teacher, principal or rabbi who abuses his charges throughout his career has had the opportunity to abuse hundreds of children. We can say without qu

[One of Many in the Know]

"Rabbi Dovid Cohen of Gvul Yaavetz in Flatbush who exposed Mondrowitz"
-------------------------------
Talk about revisionist history.
Rabbi Dovid Cohen was the rabbinical advisor of Ohel at the time. He was the first rabbi informed of Mondrowitz’s atrocities. He was given first hand accounts in 1981 and did absolutely nothing except advising Ohel to stop referring clients to Mondrowitz.

[One of Many in the Know]

The Baltimore Vaad Letter, which fooled a few people for a limited amount of time basically says the following:

We, the rabbis, made mistakes. Now we know better. Make sure you come to us before going to the police.

Signed, The Rabbis Who Made Mistakes That Destroyed Lives But Now Somehow Know Better.

Very telling was Rabbi Moshe Heinemann’s subsequent hand written letter telling his followers to boycott the Baltimore Jewish Times posted immediately after the Baltimore Jewish Times ran an expose of rabbinical molesters and rabbinical cover-up.

Bottom line: They’ve learned nothing so long as they insist on interjecting themselves into situations they have proven themselves to be deadly incompetent in.

[Meyer]

"It is our "freakin business" because the ultra orthodox purport to be the true Jews."

You freakin idiot. This post is about Ger, not about the ultra orthodox who purport to be the true Jews.

"It is out "freakin business" because they are judgmental and derisive of every non-Talmudic approved action we take while in their own lives evince hypocrisy of the highest order."

You freakin idiot. Ger isn't judgemental about anyone who doesn't follow their sex rules. Its their private business and they keep it to themselves.

"It is "our freakin business" because when they have power they try to ruthlessly enforce their Kool-Aid drinking brand of Judaism on the rest of us mere pedestrian Jews."

Again you freakin idiot, not when it comes to Gerrer sex rules

[Mordecai]

Meyer:

Yes it is "our freakin business" because the sex rules like every other aspect of life comes from interpretation of Talmud. It is based on theology or a prior Rabbi's interpretation. And an understanding how these folks think, construe rules, and apply those rules to everyday life be it sex or anything else impinges upon all of us. It impinges upon all of us when they place themselves on a morally high pedestal and would, if they could, dictate to the rest of us.

As a general proposition I could not give a rat's ass what anyone does behind closed doors as long as they don't scare the horses. But what they do behind closed doors (being Talmudically based) is relevant to what they do in public which is Talmudically based.

[Meyer]

"It is "our freakin business" because they, like the Stalinst pigs they are, put cherims on people who challenge their authority, expose thjem or mock them like Shmarya."

Anti religious whores like you deserve much worse than Cheirems.

"It is our "freakin business" because the Ultra-Orthodox when empowered by numbers will throw rocks at our cars dare we drive through their neighborhoods in Israel.

A Sheigetz who openly transgresses the Holy Torah shouldn't dare complain. The Sanhedrin would have sentenced him to death.

"It is our "freakin business" because they will beat up women who do not move to the back of the bus and will enable alleged child molesters like Mondrowitz.

But the Gerrer don't enforce their sex rule on others, you freakin idiot.

"They will ostracize us if we intermarry and will otherwise castigate and rebuke us in any of a multitude of manners."

Rightfully so and well deserved.

[Mordecai]

Meyer:

I am not "anti-religious" there is room in my world for the ultra-orthodox but there is no room in their world for me. I would not throw rocks at their cars.

I believe the Talmud says that those who castigate rabbis will burn in hell in boiling excrement. So if it is any consoltation to you, you will know where to find me when I die.

[Meyer]

"It impinges upon all of us when they place themselves on a morally high pedestal and would, if they could, dictate to the rest of us."

But Ger doesn't do that, jerk. They try to keep it secret amongst themselves.

"As a general proposition I could not give a rat's ass what anyone does behind closed doors as long as they don't scare the horses. But what they do behind closed doors (being Talmudically based) is relevant to what they do in public which is Talmudically based."

You stupid distorted logic is very telling of how much you hate ultra orthodox jews.

[Moreover]

Meyer:

Moreover you writein response to the ultra orthodox ostracizing us if we intermarry.

You write: "Rightfully so and well deserved."

I have some experience in this area. And it is because my personal life is their "freaking business" they open themselves up to making theor personal life my "freakin business."

I did not draw first blood. But I won't lay down and play dead and allow these hypocrites to hijack Judaism and pervert it salient features.

[Meyer]

"I am not "anti-religious" there is room in my world for the ultra-orthodox but there is no room in their world for me."

Of course there's no room for hatefilled foulmouths like you.

"I believe the Talmud says that those who castigate rabbis will burn in hell in boiling excrement. So if it is any consoltation to you, you will know where to find me when I die."

You'll know where to find me too. I'll be stoking them flames.

[Mordecai]

Moreover, I have a possessory interest in Judaism being every bit a son of Zion as they. The perversions of the Tanya equating the "goy" witrh a sub-human and the Jew as the Master Race does not bode well for Judaism as a corporate entity. These concepts must be ripped out and extirpated from Judaism.

[Meyer]

"I have some experience in this area. And it is because my personal life is their "freaking business" they open themselves up to making theor personal life my "freakin business."

When you marry a Goyta, its not just about your personal life. Its about the lives of hundreds of generations of children which will now be goyim instead of jews due to yourselfish lust for a shiksa.

"I did not draw first blood. But I won't lay down and play dead and allow these hypocrites to hijack Judaism and pervert it salient features."

By marrying a Goyta, you slap Judaism in its face and that makes you the one whose hijacking Judaism and perverting it salient features.

[Meyer]

"The perversions of the Tanya equating the "goy" witrh a sub-human and the Jew as the Master Race does not bode well for Judaism as a corporate entity."

See, that's your mistake. You view Judaism as a corporate entity. Not as a divine mission instructed by God, but like a business deal. That's why your perspective of Judaism is so distorted and corrupted.

[Mordecai]

I appreciate very much hearing the word of G-D himself in his celestial majesty through your quite small and croaking voice.

And should judgment day arrive I will meet G-D and he will judge me based upon my life and deeds (I am not saint for sure). But I did not murder nor did I commit adultery like King David and may very well may be judged more favorable than him.

As you are a great spokesman for the "religious" as opposed to the mere apostates I hope that when you get your next eye infection you will notify me. Pursuant to the Talmud I would like to cure such eye infection by spitting in your eye (as I am a first born son). Thereby I will show my contempt for you while at the same time expressing my piety by following Talmud.

When you and the Rabbis follow the "cures" in Talmud rather than seeking the aid of modern medicine then you may critique my personal life. In such instance, I will disagree with you but at least recognize you are sincere. As it stands now you are a mere hypocrite who would claim the Talmud is "Holy Writ" whispered into the ear of Moses by G-D but would not even for a moment consider following many of its silly mandates.

[Mordecai]

Meyer:

You write: [See, that's your mistake. You view Judaism as a corporate entity. Not as a divine mission instructed by God, but like a business deal. That's why your perspective of Judaism is so distorted and corrupted.]

You also are ignorant of the English language and nuanced meanings of words. No doubt you interpret Torah in the same unidimensional and shallow manner which exlains your ignorance.

"Corporation" has to do with somethinf that is united or combined in one body. The words corpse and corporeal are related to corporation and have nothing to do with a money-making entity.

[yona loriner]

this is as true as the jewish ppl have sex with a sheet between them!!!! u as a former orthodox dont believe it urself!!!!!

[Mordecai]

Friend of a Survivor:

You write: "I feel I have some useful insights to contribute to this discussion, but I am being scared away by the tone of many of the comments"

Thanks for your comments. I cannot speak for everybody but as for me you are welcome by me anytime.

[MP]

Someone has to say this: Regardless of the quality and quantity of the Gerer sex life, I bet it is much much more frequent and much better than the sex life of most of the frustrated commenters here and certainly than that of the blogmaister himself. :)

[yidandahalf]

When wealth moves around fluidly and politically and is generated by a religious entity such as Chabad then the corruptions and deviations and unhealthy occupations of its members become any Jew's business. These people have a mighty presence that is getting ever stronger and this is the what the goyim see.
About the Gerer matrimonial tribulations; well, this topic so far has over 70 comments. Doesn't that say it all? Everybody wants to hear about sex anytime they can. We are having a Thanksgiving diversion.

[rebeljew]

Sure.

And all their topsheets have holes in them. Yeah, right.

[yidandahalf]

I also have ties with the charedi community. When I 'went over' the persecution and unadulterated hate visited upon me by liberal, conservative, and reform Jews was staggering. I didn't care, I never looked back. BUT can we assume that maybe, just maybe, this was the result of the sort sickening behaviour both on display and frantically covered up by the charedi community? The little guy as always, the obscure shlemiel; he's the one bearing the brunt of the honcho abominators who are preoccupied with counting their money or their mitzvos points in the world to come and COULD CARE LESS. So we, the others, care. It is indeed, OUR FREAKIN' BUSINESS.

[Isa]

This is really about a community that has hid and SHELTERED a serial child molester for over 20 years. Thinking about...maybe their sexual chumras contributed to Mondrowitz's ' behavior'.

[Yos]

Sex without foreplay? Sign me up!

[yidandahalf]

I also have ties with the charedi community. When I 'went over' the persecution and unadulterated hate visited upon me by liberal, conservative, and reform Jews was staggering. I didn't care, I never looked back. BUT can we assume that maybe, just maybe, this was the result of the sort sickening behaviour both on display and frantically covered up by the charedi community? The little guy as always, the obscure shlemiel; he's the one bearing the brunt of the honcho abominators who are preoccupied with counting their money or their mitzvos points in the world to come and COULD CARE LESS. So we, the others, care. It is indeed, OUR FREAKIN' BUSINESS.

[Yos]

"Thinking about...maybe their sexual chumras contributed to Mondrowitz's ' behavior'."

They said that about Catholic priests and celibacy. Obviously, perverts are just perverts. I've gone without sex like some kinda hindu faqir on a bed of nails and I've never been tempted to rape a child. Not even a little bit.

[ABE]

Enough already with all this Chasiddishe Gur Shtoos.

I'M OFF TO WATCH ANOTHER RERUN OF MY " SON THE PARASITE" ON THE GUR CABLE CHANNEL. TODAY'S EPISODE: NACHMAN MENDEL VISITS HIS RAV TO ATONE FOR HIS AVEYRA AFTER HE DISCOVERS THAT THE SHEET WITH THE HOLE THAT HE USED ON MITZVA NIGHT WAS SHATNEZ.

[Isa]

To Yos:
True, very true
BUT what if Mondrowitz was able to control his forbidden desire with regular 'visits' to his wife which were certainly restricted by his 'Commandant'

[Gerrer Chosid]

WHAT IS FOREPLAY ?

[Renee]

My mother comes from a Gerer Chassidic family. My cousins are Gerer Chassidim.

They have quite normal sex. They enjoy foreplay just like the rest of us. They enjoy it more when they are pregnant, which generally the better part of 25 years of their lives.

They have sex whenever they want during the clean days. They sneak away to hotels to have intimate evenings away from their teenage children.

They go to the mikveh after childbirth 7 days after the bleeding stops like everyone else does. They love their husbands. Their husband love them. Their husbands tell them in front of other relatives how beautiful they are and that they still look like the brides they married even though they are middle aged grandmothers. They blush and DO look like the brides they were 20-30 years ago.

They do not use a hole in the sheet. They have warm, loving and playful relationships with their husbands.

Many Haredim will not walk side by side with their wives on the street but will ask their wives to walk a pace behind them.

This is becoming more and more common throughout the haredi world. The reason I was told was that the husbands got aroused when looking at their wives tuchuses. That sounded good, so I started to walk a pace behind my husband so he would also get aroused whenever he looks at MY tuches.

I have never heard of heterosexual relations "curing" either homosexuality or pedophilia. People who prey on children for their kicks are sick and disgusting and there is no excuse for it.

Homosexuals in the frum community face challenges that are beyond what most of us could overcome and need our ahavas yisrael and support in their struggle to serve Hashem properly. But of course this is true of anyone who desires that which is forbidden.

[Bitzki]

Happy Thanksgiving, Meyer! Are you eating a Rubashkin PRIMA kasher turkey today? You always sound as if you didn't eat since the night before. Maybe you should work.

[rabbidw]

I like to look at my wife's tuches, but for that, she has to walk a step or two ahead of me. I don't know if she like to look at my tuches or not, as I generally walk beside her.

[Meyer]

>Happy Thanksgiving, Meyer! Are you eating a Rubashkin PRIMA kasher turkey today? You always sound as if you didn't eat since the night before. Maybe you should work.

A Happy Yom Chamishi, Bitzki. No turkey for me today. That's for Goyim to fress. A pastrami and coleslaw sandwich will be just fine. And I work too.

[Renee]

Renee:

Did your mother and cousins actually have discussions with you about the specifics of their sexual acts?

[Mordecai]

Above posting was posted by Mordecai not Renee. Sorry for the mistake

[yidandahalf]

I posit that the "women" posters of late ( ger sex life and chabad sex shenanigans ) are not chicks at all but more of the male opponents to the content of this site. I guess in the old days of usenet they would be like trolls who come out. But no way these mamsers are chicks. Women don't talk that way. This is the height of their ingenuity. JESUS!

[Neil]

I dunno about the sex stuff, but here in Tel-Aviv I see Gerrers walking next to their wives all the time. But it's possible that in hareidi enclaves they comport themselves differently. I've got a true-blue Gerrer in my miluim unit, so I'll inquire next time we meet. In their shtiblach I've seen different takanot regarding weddings - they're not allowed to invite over 200 guests, spend over so-and-so amount on the wedding, etc., in order to avoid having people go bankrupt when funding their kids' weddings. One gets an impression that their rebbe runs a tight ship...

[The Monsey Tzaddik]

I like this thread…

All the chosiddim sects have their own shuts about sex, even chabbad (you can ask HNC or the good people in 7 fat cows).

My mother came from very choshuv belze family, when she got married to my tati she was not the sex kitten as she is now. I was told that originally they slept in two separate bed (like Moshe and Tzipora) but then they visited Modern Orthodox relatives and she saw that they have two twin beds connected and only in nidah days they separate them. My mummy came home and made my tati buy two queen beds so they can cuddle on clean days.

I remember we used to get packages from publishing house in Israel (of obscure Maharsha manuscripts), from Good Vibrations, Stormy Leather and Victoria’s secrets.

Zugasi shetichye learned some tricks from my mother, one time on mikvah night my wife out of blue did something to me which made me …… After I regained my consciousness I asked where did you learn it ? and with devilish smile she answered “from you mom”

From then on I look at my mom and dad with whole new light….

Happy Thankgiving

Belze are the best !!!!

[C-Girl]

Thanks, Monsey Tzaddik. I know that I speak for most of the people here when I say that I will never look at a smiling chossid the same ever again.

Happy Thanksgiving to you, too.

[anon]

Pity. I was hoping the number of comments would remain a very fitting "69."

[Yochanan Lavie]

WHAT IS FOREPLAY ?

It comes right after threeplay and right before fiveplay.

[Isa]

Regarding:
""""What is FOREPLAY?""""
If this is an honest question then just type the word, foreplay into Google.

[Sebi]

I live in Boro Park and know Gerrer Chassidim.

Probably the no foreplay rule is the reason the Gerrer boys cannot find shidduchim.

It is seriously difficult for them and for this reason they are getting married older and older.

Chassidic girls would rather marry a hungarian and shave their heads if they can atleast get jiggy with it.

[velvetsex]

The Steipler endoresed a book by Rabbi Travish in the late 70's called "Pirkei Hanhagas HaBayis" 2 Vols.
it is a Halachik Liberal Sex Manifest ending with a letter ofthe graetest post war Torah authority= the Chazon Ish.

it was realy meant against the Gerrer Takunnes.

a question discussed by Shadchonim is "Benei Nidda" regarding BT's that want to marry FFB's but were concieved by a non kosher cohabitation.

one Rabbi said the same applies with Gerrers that concieve children that are "Benei Gerusahs Halev" or "Benei Senua" [Talmud Nedraim 59]

[anon]

Aren't the laws of nidah as they are harsh? Why not seven days? Why a minimum of 12 days and for those with problems longer? Did women discuss there practices? The rabbis now are the komandants!

[YitzchakS]

As always - totally absurd and along the lines of the hole in the sheet myth. The only restriction I have ever seen is that an acquaintance of mine, a Gerrer Chossid from Antwerp who operates a successful and very visible small business in Yerushalayim along with his wife, does not sit anywhere near her in their office. I would assume this has to do with a minhag but it could just as soon be done out of a sense of professionalism.

[Tamarah]

Ah, niddah - the differences between Torah proper and minhagim. In Torah, women are tamei for several reasons. First, for regular menses - usually 7 days. Second, for bleeding outside of menses - plus 7 clean days. Third, for bleeding after childbirth - varies depending on if the newborn is male or female.

According to "tradition", Jewish women decided to combine #1 and #2 so that niddah would be all the menstrual days *plus* 7 clean days. This was because Rabbis and the women's husbands did not trust women to be able to tell the difference between regular menses and abnormal bleeding. Unfortunately, sometimes the mid-cycle bleeding is ovulatory bleeding and avoiding relations at that time would cause a couple with fertility issues to have more difficulty conceiving. So, even though women are more educated in this area than before, if you ask an O rabbi or rebbitzin, they will tell that, because Jewish people have been accepting this "fence" for hundreds of years, we must still accept it today.

In studying the Talmudic (my fiance bought the Schottenstein Translation for me to study), I think we really need to take a closer look at WHY we live as we do. For instance, without the ash of the Red Heifer and living in Galut, we are ALL tamei, so some of restrictions do not make sense. There is a growing movement afoot in Israel to have women poskim on these issues. The website is http://www.yoatzot.org.

From the Conservative movement (I converted through University of Judaism), sanity is beginning to return to some Jewish families. The two C mikvah ladies that I have spoken to give both the Torah background and the O traditions and allow the couples to decide if that minhag should be a part of our lives.

I, for one, think that education of women is a KEY to bringing sanity to Judaism.

[Yochanan Lavie]

I, for one, think that education of women is a KEY to bringing sanity to Judaism.

And to Islam, too.

[Miriam Woelke]

B"H

A little late, but here my comment.

Yes, I can at least partially confirm what you listed. I have no idea if these Takanot are still valid because they came from the former Rebbes. I don't know how the present Gerer Rebbe handles the issues.

[yudel]

well boys,
Nothing like a sex article to get out the minyons. For the record. In Israel the Rebbe of Gur is in the forefront in the battle against abuse. He has assigned in communities his chassidim to go after these predators and to turn them over to the police. He also has told them to make sure victims have counseling by a skilled sexual trauma therapist. They have a list of the best in Israel. They are not frum.

Now sex. True their sexual practices are different and seem untoward. In fact for those who master these practices their orgasims are akin to what is assiduosly described and taught in Tantric Sex. To attain that level of union is a very incredible state of consciousness. Anyone who knows close a chassid of Gur is well aware of the tremendous power in this form of very ancient sex.
However naturally because it is a uniform code it does cause clearly problems for some. And Gur is large and things fall badly through the cracks.
And bad things have happened in Gur. But ask a warm regular chassid of Gur about all of this and you will get some amazing answers to all of this brought down and given to them by the BESHT.

There is no wiggle room on what i have written above. This is from pi ha dibbur from the Rebbe of Gur on these matters.

Again we must be careful not to let our sinas chinam make our decisions about all these matters in one fell swoop.
As i have written consistently there are many wounded souls here on this site.
I hope and assume you are working to bring back your relation to your neshama to achieve equanitmity.
Kol Yisroel arevin zeh l'zeh. That is core to our heart and as much as we attend to the hell in our midst we must not forget that we speak of our pain not for vengenance for justice and tikkunim.
I am sure many of you get frustrated by my missives. Like who in Gds name is this dude running these lines at us.
I do not mind. I come from the shadow world and have been off the grid for three decades toiling in the fields. At one point i too had this outrage. I found the outrage as oppossed to seeking strong justice was a refuah. And in particular a refuah to those savaged and wounded.
How many of you outside of this blog are doing anything even in the smallest way constructive in this shadow war to lend a hand to the wounded that lie in all our midst? How many of you have reached out in your shteibl to the victims and made an attempt to go after the perps who often are the gavar davenning next to you?
How many of feel your very home is prepared to give refuge to victims and to protect them?

i can only plead with you to not just remain boxes of teeth here chattering and do something smart.

I am certain some of you are. Look how many of have found failedmessiah.com.
What is next? It always must be what is next.

[Shmarya]

What BS.

Ger has been hiding molesters like Mondrowitz for years.

Ger child abusers get therapy, I'm sure – but they escape the courts system and any independent oversight because the Gerrer rebbe violates the law and protects them.

You do not know whether these men continue to abuse or not. (Hint: THEY DO.)

As for Ger and "tantric sex," I don't know where your information comes from – but it certainly does not come from Ger women, or from any objective observer of that community.

The Gerrer rebbe is a criminal. So is your defense of him.

[ANTI GER]

Ger chumras are sick! I know personally how they work and either ger people "cheat" or are unhappily married or end up getting divorced. It is a cult that has been under the wraps for too long with too many victims. Let the word spread that these men who are controlling the sex lives of their chassidim are perverted themselves and get sick joy out of controlling the innocent followers. It is totally against halacha what they do! I welcome anyone who is suffering in silence to add to this forum.

[charnie]

It is every bodies buisness that gerrer chasidim dont have any relations with there wifes besides for twice a month and than no foreplay, So people should not marry gerrer chassidim unless they are ready to live a life almost as a nun. They will not tell you before hand that they follow these rules. I have a coworker who is a non gerrer woman and she got married to a gerrer boy by mistake and they did not tell her untill after she was married. She is misreable. What happened to the TRUTH

[Jack Ass]

The FACT stands to this day for all who are concerned to see for themselves. Not Ger nor the Gerrer Rebbe has done SHIT for the victims of Mondrowitz and Leizerowitz, two of the rabid wholesale Gerrer molesters in America. I know because I have the dubious honor of being a victim of one of these pigs.
Sorry hogs.