CONFIRMED: Haredi War on Modern Orthodoxy Begins

Rabbi Gil Student writes:

I was able to confirm the statement with a reliable source who confirmed it with multiple attendees. It seems that R[abbi] Nochum Eisenstein did, in fact, say this. Presumably the RCA will have to deal with this in some way. Some of their members who perform geirus, like R[abbi] Barry Freundel, have public views on this matter (see R[abbi] Freundel's book, which has been quoted multiple times on this blog).
Gil | Homepage | 11.08.07 - 7:04 pm | #

What is Gil Student confirming? This:

…In any event, my friend tells me that R[abbi] N[ochum] Eisenstein declared, FROM THE PODIUM IN FRONT OF THE ENTIRE [Eternal Jewish Family] CONFERENCE [in Washington, DC this week], in the name of R[abbi] Eliyashiv, that anyone who believes the world is older than 5000+ years is a kofer b'ikar, and is therefore unfit to serve as a dayan on a beis din, and that consequently any rabbi that holds such a view cannot perform conversions, not to mention that all of his conversions would be posul.

Similar such pronouncements were made about anyone who maintains that Chazal made any error in science or metzeius. Another "distinguished" speaker lamented that he saw a "supposed" dayan actually wearing some "brown" article of clothing and "smelled of cologne"; the EJF speaker commented something along the lines of, "can you imagine such a person serving as a dayan?"…

Rabbi Hershel Schachter lent his name to the Eternal Jewish Family cause, even though there were ample signs of bad behavior from its leader Rabbi Leib Tropper and from men like Rabbi Nochum Eisenstein and Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv. (Search for "Tropper" here to see one example; see these posts for many others.) Yet Rabbi Hershel Schachter, the 'leader' of Modern Orthodoxy went along blindly, accepting the false praise from Tropper's lips and ignoring the pain and suffering of others.

Now the RCA must take a stand. But the Basil Herrings, Herschel Schachters and Mordechai Willigs of this world lack a key element needed to fight – beytzim.

Tropper, Eisenstein, Elyashiv and Amar must be stopped. If the 'leaders' of Modern Orthodoxy will not or cannot do the job, it will fall to us, the laity, to do it.

Do not make the mistake of thinking the actions taken by haredim are irrelevant to your lives. The day will soon come when your children or grandchildren will not be able to marry in Israel because they will not have a reliable ancestry because their parents are Modern Orthodox. Your yichus will be suspect, and your Judaism marginalized.

Act now, in this brief moment left before it is too late. Tell your rabbis and roshei yeshivot that they must not capitulate to haredi demands.

If they do not listen or they do not act then realize that we are truly a leaderless generation, even though many so-called men hold positions of prestige and authority.

Hillel said, "Where there is no man, be a man," in other words, "When your leaders are cowards you must have the courage to act."

Act now. The future is literally in your hands. Hazak u'barukh.

Comments

[Yochanan Lavie]

Not that anyone asked me: Modern Orthodox institutions such as Chovevi Torah should merge with the Union for Traditional Judaism. Then, they should declare their indepedence from the chareidim- don't hire their rabbis, don't give them money, don't patronize their institutions, don't listen to their "sages." In Israel, MO should lobby for seperation of synagogue and state. (MO don't have to accept non-Ortho conversions; they don't in America.) This will never happen, because the MO are always looking over their right shoulder for approval from the "authentic" Fiddler on the Roof Jews.

[Garnel Ironheart]

> Tropper, Eisenstein, Elyashiv and Amar must be stopped. If the 'leaders' of Modern Orthodoxy will not or cannot do the job, it will fall to us, the laity, to do it

Wow, I didn't know you were MO now. Welcome aboard!

The reason the MO leadership won't fight the chareidim is that same reason most of them wear black hats. They are more concerned with being seen an legitimate rabbonim by their Chareidi world. Their laity come second in this regard.

The problem with fighting back, however, is the possible consequence: a complete split within the Torah observant world leading to the Chareidim treating MO as another type of heterodoxy, like the end of the post suggested. I don't think they want that to happen either.

[JewishCynic]

Yochanan hit it on the head:
"don't hire their rabbis, don't give them money, don't patronize their institutions, don't listen to their "sages."
They slap MO and other jews with one hand then beg them for money (or pick their pockets) with the other.
There doesn't have to be direct confrontation with the haredim; "just say NO".
If they see the money tree drying up they'll start singing a different tune.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Modern Orthodoxy feeds the hand that bites it. (attribution: Rabbi Yuter).

[Paul Freedman]

At the end of the day, "Who Is a Jew" and other citizenship policies in Israel will not be made by the Orthodox--but by secular, Conservative, Reform, Reconstructionist Jews. We are the majority, we will not completely assimilate in the near-term, and we will "keep our oar in"--you guys may not like that, you may not feel we are not really 100% Jewish but heredi fundamentalism is not going to run or ruin our lives however much tsouris it causes yours.

[rabbidw]

I was Leibel Tropper's roomate almost 40 years ago in Yeshivah. Do not underestimate his intelligence or his egi. They are both overwhelming. But he is also very ignorant. I believe he boasted of dropping out of the English department after 8th grade. In other words, he is brilliant, highly chariamatic and just plain ignorant.
But this whole chareidi kulturkampf rests on a the growth of the issur as opposed to the Teshuvah. The issur is basically Rabbis treating the rest of the worl as children, as they tell us you must do this or cannot do that, why? because we say so!! The first modern issur that I can think of, (I am sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong) was the ban on participating in the Synagogue Council of America. Rav Eliezer Silver of Cincinnatti was theAcknowledged Gadol and head of the MOetzes before Rav Kutler, was quoted as saying there was no halachic reason for this ban. IMHO it was a pure powerplay, which was succesful. It drew a border and challenged more modern Rabbis that if they crossed the line they would be rejected. The traditional halachic approach is the Teshuvah, which to be accepted, has to play fair, has to marshall arguments on both sides. Like a legal brief, a Teshuvah has to explain decisions that go the other way. If a legal brief does not cite all the relevant cases it is laughed at and ignored. These "Gedolim" are uncomfortable writing Teshuvot, because that would indicate that there are two sides to the issue. They take the easy side by just writing issurim, that do not have to stand up to halachic logic, they wre meant to be accepted "because we say so. It is a cheap and easy way, and is very dangerous to use. The faculty of Riets used this approach just a few years ago when they all signed a letter against women's tefilot. So now they are victims of their own approach. Dince not one of them will assert that they are bigger that Rabbi Elyashav, if they can write an issur about women's tefillah groups and expect us to be bound by there collective opinions, why should they not be bound by the collective opinions of Rav Elyashav and his colleagues, who still seem to be living in the 16th century? It will be interesting.

[The Monsey Tzadik]

There were many EJF conferences where the rabbis came from all over the world and had their airfare and hotels paid by Tom Kaplan. There is a simple way to stop all this meshugaas and this to stop the flow of money from Kaplan to Tropper.

If he refuses to do so I am sure the Modern Orthodox with their connection to the state of Israel can get the Mossad to arrange for accident to happen to Mr. Kaplan…

There are actually a group of people who have the ability and the resources to fight back they are call chabbad but they are too busy in setting up branches in Phuket and suing the Seattle airport.

I once read one of their big shots , Dovid Eliezry of OC posting in Cross-Currents and Sheepingly trying to convince them that Chabbad are Legitimate Jews. Eliezry is known for his attacked on Liberals and Liberal Jews in particular.

Let me tell you something Eliezry the enemies of kllal Isroel are not the Liberals and not the Seattle Airport Authority, they are the charedis which you are begging them to accept you and your kind

[S.]

>If he refuses to do so I am sure the Modern Orthodox with their connection to the state of Israel can get the Mossad to arrange for accident to happen to Mr. Kaplan…

Are you crazy or do you just have a macabre sense of humor? Don't even joke like that.

[Lawrence M. Reisman]

Rabbidw writes that the "first modern issur that I can think of, (I am sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong) was the ban on participating in the Synagogue Council of America." How about the bans against the chasidim tarting in the 1700s? In the 1800s, several rabbonim in Polan and Hungary issued issurim on machine-baked matzos without ever having seen them produced. The Agudas Harabbonim issued a few in the 1920s and 1930s, such as purchasing (kosher) food from a Jew who also sold non-Kosher. There was also an issur on Torah Vodaas opening a high school because of hasgoas gvul. By the way, the issur on the synagogue council was in fact a teshuva. It started as a question to Rav Yaakov Kaminetsky and Rav Gedalia Schorr, roshei yeshiva of Torah Vodaath, by the Igud Harabbonim (basically a Torah Vodaas alumni association at the time) on joining with the RCA (basically aa YU alumni association at the time) in their participation in the synagogue council. Those two involved the other nine who signed the ban. (The history of this is detailed in Louis Bernstein's "Challenge and Mission")

"Rav Eliezer Silver of Cincinnatti was theAcknowledged Gadol and head of the MOetzes before Rav Kutler," Not quite. He was the president of the Agudas Harabbonim, but before Rav Aharon cam here and Reb Moshe's reputation was established, Rav Eliahu Henkin was regarded as the leading rov in America.

Rav Silver "was quoted as saying there was no halachic reason for this ban." I don't think he quite came out that way, but he disagreed with it and quite publicly declined to sign it. One can find more history on this in Aharon Rakefet's "The Silve Era."

[Jim]

Reading your blog does so much to reaffirm my commitment to Conservative Judaism. Thank you!

[Paul Freedman]

Jim, my nephew is a Conservative youth leader now studying at the Conservative Yeshiva/Seminary in Jerusalem after his college graduation. Following the controversies here pushed me to plead with him to consider staying with Conservative notwithstanding that his desire to study and learn and grow spiritually in an atmosphere of authenticity might seem to be most directly met within Orthodox affiliation.

[mordecai]

"Authenticity" is a human construct that appears to me more suited for descriptions of authentic reproductions of Van Gogh or authentic Matzoh Ball Soup. "Authentic" religion strikes me to be a bit odd.

I imagine that when G-D judges the Black Hats who believe they are authentic he may bellow: "When I said a blue thread in the Tzit Tzit I meant a blue thread in the Tzit Tzit!! What numbskull came up with the idea that we did not need a blue thread?"

Alternatively he might just say to the Alte Rebbe Shnorrer Zalman of Bialy: "Kellipots Shmellipots. Where did you get that hairbrained idea that non-Jewsish souls come from no-good. I am the Lord thy G-D and I do not make defective products only the Chinese do!!"

[Ahavah]

"If they see the money tree drying up they'll start singing a different tune."

I doubt that. They would be very happy to defacto "excommunicate" everyone everywhere who won't adhere to their extra-biblical stringencies. They don't care one whit what effect this would have on other sects of Judaism - to them, there ARE NO other sects of Judaism. You need to get that straight right now.

"IMHO it was a pure powerplay, which was succesful."

Exactly - the money now is actually secondary, though they have waited until this moment to act until they had plenty of resources available to them. It's now all about powermongering and control - and they don't intend to give up either.

"I am the Lord thy G-D and I do not make defective products only the Chinese do!!"

The cheredi don't believe that, and never will. Their racism and arrogance is deeply ingrained in their teaching and philosophy and even their eschatology.

The other sects of Judaism have not been able to stand up to this nonsense so long as the state of Israel is subsidizing and artificially inflating the influence of the cheredi. The only thing that's going to stop them is the total economic collapse of their communities - a wish that may be a lot closer to coming true than anyone cares to admit. Unfortunately, destroying the last link to the "old world," however far off course they have become (which is quite far) will do far more damage than good to Judaism in general.

And here in America, the backlash is already building against their self-centered attitudes and exploitation of others - and it is not just the cheredi who will be the targets of the ire of the masses. But for most, moving to Israel is not an answer. Intelligent educated people are not going to put up with being told their marriages, adoptions, conversions, and geneology in general are "not really Jewish." American support for Israel among Jews is going to fall through the floor when they realize they have been rejected as "sub-humans" with "defective souls."

What happens then? I really don't know.

[Isa]

OK so screw the MO converts.
There are any number of MO rabbis that do getts. Now these Heredi idiots have created a whole bunch of mamzereem.

[Dave]

The problem is that we as Jews keep on talking about our differences, instead of what unites us. If I were a rabbi, I would say "If you believe in (the Jewish concept of) G-d, and you believe that Torah study and good deeds are primordially important, let's talk. These things are axiomatic and foundational values. We can debate anything else"

[The Monsey Tzadik]

Are you crazy or do you just have a macabre sense of humor?

Yes

[Modecai]

[If I were a rabbi, I would say "If you believe in (the Jewish concept of) G-d, and you believe that Torah study and good deeds are primordially important, let's talk]

The idea that "if you were a rabbi" is pregnant with the unarticulated implication that your views would have more weight or authenticity if you were a rabbi.

Actually, if you were a rabbi I (and perhaps others) would have more reason to skeptically consider if you have an ax to grind or have a particular agenda.

[The problem is that we as Jews keep on talking about our differences}

That we talk about differences is not a "problem" but a sacred obligation. The racist Chabad Tanya says that the souls of the nations of the world, however, emanate from the unclean kelipot which contains no good whatsoever, as it is written in Etz Chayim 49, ch. 3, that all the good the nations do is out of selfish motive."

We have a duty to extirpate this nefarious concept from the body politic of Judaism and from our theology. It is NOT a Jewish theology and is antithetical to the spirit of Judaism. It is anathema and it should be treated as such. No commonality, such as dancing the hora or singing Hava Nagila, can mitigate the blight of such thinking upon Judaism.

Did we not expect decent Germans to distance themselves from Nazi extremism? Do we not expect decent Christians to denounce the Ku Klux Klan? What if decent Cristians were to celebrate their commonality with the Klan instead of talking about "problems." Consider if a Christian leader were to say: "Let's talk about what unites us with the Ku Klux Klan rather than our differences." What would your resopnse to that be?

"Problems" may make us uncomfortable or place squarely in front of our eyes the reality of religious extremism within Judaism.

Yes they are our brothers and I do not believe we should hate them. However we should correct them and make quite clear our disagreement with such views as for example the one cited from the Tanya rather than pretend they do not exist in a false show of Jewish unity.

[Neo-Conservaguy]

How sweet it is - perhaps karma is a Jewish concept after all. On that basis, I can think of no group that more deserves to get this treatment than the OU/RCA. They have happily shit on anyone to the "left" of them for decades. Now, they're getting it themselves because they are "left" of the haredim. How does it feel to have the crap land on you, boys?

[Yochanan Lavie]

How does it feel to have the crap land on you, boys?

Neo: There is a Sephardic saying: If you spit downwards, it lands in your beard, if spit upwards it lands in your face. (i.e. don't slander others because it comes back to you). So maybe karma is Jewish.

[Neo-Conservaguy]

For the authentic Jewish position on Conversion, we need only look to a true voice for the halachic process in our generation, Rabbi D. Marc Angel:

http://www.forward.com/articles/11985

[mordecai]

Angel's article is good. He is a Rabbi aptly named.

EMMES

[Dave]

Mordecai, don't get me wrong- I am very much against fanaticism. I am also very much against mysticism of any kind.

[Bartley Kulp]

Can someone please provide a proper hyperlink to Rabbi Eisenstien's comment? I cannot find it in the Eternal Jewish Family websight. I would not like to debate over this issue unless I can authenticate the fact that he made those statements.

[Shmarya]

I tell you what – when it comes out in paperback, we'll call you.

[Yakir Pinchas]

The language here is false. Haredi Jews include Modern Orthodox. What you mean to say is Hasidic (Chasidic); not Haredi.

[Shmarya]

Nope. You're wrong.

The dichtomy between The RCA and the Charedi world is false.RIETS is a part od the larger yeshiva world. It calls itself centrist orthodox and tries to function as the moderate voice within the yeshiva world. Lakewood is the right wing of the yeshiva world and presents itself as the intellectual elite of the world.

[Yakir Pinchas]

I stand corrected. But I would have preferred a better explanation than: "Nope. You're wrong."

[Shmarya]

You're right about that. I apologize.

[Lev]

Ahava, are you a survivior of the "BT Archiprlago"--"Archipelag BT"?(See my post on Kvetcher).
Mordecai, I had posted on this topic, some stupid Lubavitchers TRANSLATE Tanya in all types of foreighn languges to cause more emnity with non-Jews.