1500 Rally Against Haredim In Beit Shemesh

Ha'aretz reports:

Some 1,500 residents of Beit Shemesh gathered late Monday to protest the recent wave of ultra-Orthodox violence in the city, calling on police and municipality officials to take stronger action against Haredi "zealots."
 
The protesters, many of them Anglo residents of the city's modern Orthodox neighborhoods, demonstrated against what they call growing religious intimidation and coercion on behalf of Haredi fringe elements.…

I think this protest is organized by these people, although I'm not 100% sure.

Comments

[Mordecai]

What a shame that after thousands of years of history and hundreds of esteemed Rabbis who left a rich and noble heritage, we are reduced to the elements among Jews who deem themselves "authentic" seeking to violently impose their belief system upon the rest of us. And those extreme types who do not use physical violence use psychological techniques like cherems and ostacization. And those extreme elements who do not use cherems and ostracization walk about with the false pride of the certainty of their own position vis a vis the rest of us pedestrian Jews. And their theology proclaims we are ONE PEOPLE, while acting in manners that divide and atomize us -- Spare me!

[Yochanan Lavie]

If dressing up like "Fiddler on the Roof" is authentic Judaism, then the Amish are the only authentic Christians. (At least the Amish are non-violent, non-coercive, polite, and work for a living. Some chareidim are like that, too, but not enough of them).

[lakewoodshmuck]

writing 1500 people looks better then writing 50. the number is total b.s.

[The Heilge Rebbe of Otisville]

Two differences between Amish and charedim come to mind, Amish do not practice child molestation or at least do not have it as part of their practice.

Another one is that Amish do not steal from the government, they actually refuse any government help.

[Ben Qor'ha]

imho, judaism is judaism, and orthodoxy, is at best a convenient moniquer or a misnomer.
there is no such thing. the term orthodox was created to distinguish between some jews and others who call themselves reform, conservative or otherwise.
consequently, modern, or ultra or "medium done" or other such apellation are misleading and can only mean non reform or non recons etc.....
those who behave like savages cannot claim to represent any kind of judaism except their own freak world.
it is therefore appropriate to excomunicate them. be they who they be, whoever is directing the demonstration or the violence, even if his name is elioshiv or shteinman or anybody else.
in imagery often used by the chumash, we should "vomit them" from our midst.
"normal rabbis" should "instruct their people" to stay away from these. we should not use their services, not only in kashrut. we should reject their mohalim, i.e. insist on non metziza bepeh bris.
reject their schools as batei vaad shel leitzim.
we should consider any food with hechsher of badatz, or crown heights or crc desatmer as treif. if a product has both OU and badatz, it should be banned until the manufacturers fire their badatz thieves. it's a war to save the jewish religion.
to say that they give judaism a bad name, is to be kind to them.

[Mordecai]

Hey Shmarya:

Take a look at this:
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=ia&vol=sc%5C20040407%5C02-2126&invol=1

This is a decision in the Supreme Court of Iowa concerning a dispute between Beth El Jacob Synogogue and Chabad of Iowa. It appears that they are both in Des Moines, both "Orthodox" (the term advisedly used per Ben Qor'ha's warning above). I understand they are down the street from each other.

It seems that an elderly woman died and first left her money to Beth El Jacob and then changed her will to Chabad. It went all the way to the Iowa Supreme Court.

Regardless of who was "legally" correct there are some interesting observations:

(1) "Orthodox" Rabbis want the common Jew to resolve disputes with Rabbis sitting as Judges as opposed to resorting to the "goyishe" courts. So why did the "Orthodox" Rabbis not resolve the problem within the Mishbucha?

(2) Since "Orthodox" Rabbis are so well-versed in the thousands of pages of commentary of the Talmud which is the "Oral Law" straight from G-D to Moses why did they not resolve this issue (over mere gelt) like men of Torah rather than make it an ugly public fight. My readings seem to indicate that the fight was public and ugly with name-slinging and so forth.

(3) Since the "Orthodox" are so keen on keeping things within the mishbucha so as not to air dirty Jewish linen in the goyishe world why did they choose to do just that. It seems that many "Orthodox" despise this website just for that very reason. However while they do not wish you (Shmarya) to openly air linen they seem to feel it is OK for them to do so. I guess it all comes down to whose ox is being gored and whose bread is being buttered.

(4) The image of two "Orthodox" Jewish groups (the only two in the town) fighting over money only serves to fuel the odious stereotype of the money-grubbing Jew. Would it not have been wiser to split the money down the middle and go out for a few drinks of Slivowisz rather than having put on such a spectacle.

(5) What happened to the principle of AHAVAT YISRAEL (Love of your fellow Jew). Rabbi MM Schneerson wrote a book: THe MItzvah to Love Your Fellow As Yourself.One concept in that book is ALL ISRAEL IS ONE. Does all of this go out the door when there is a dispute over money?

[Mordecai]

Shmarya:

Try this link instead

http://www.iowabar.org/iowasupremecourt.nsf/9a275c73f72409f4862564bb00563305/4d129900b908175386256e6f004b7ce1!OpenDocument

[yona loriner]

YOUR NOT SURE!!!!!!! JUST LIKE ALL THE OTHER STORIES U EOTHER MAKE UP OR DISTORT!!!!!!!

[Mordecai]

Yona Loriner:

Why dont you go to the website of the IOWA BAR and read the opinion of the Iowa Supreme Court yourself. Or why dont you go to any law library and read it yourself. These are the FACTS. Do you think it is a fabrication? A lawsuit was filed over gelt. And the only two "Orthodox" shuls fought over a few hundred thousand dollars.

Here is the info. Try using your brain:

Case Title: IN THE MATTER OF THE ESTATE OF BLIMA FORDONSKI BETH EL JACOB SYNAGOGUE and MARSHALL BERG, Appellees, vs. LUBAVITCH OF IOWA, INC., Appellant.

Date: 04/07/2004

Number: 166 / 02-2126

Decision: Appeal from the Iowa District Court for Polk County, D.J. Stovall, Judge.

Beneficiary under testator’s latest will appeals from judgment setting that will aside based on finding of improper execution. REVERSED AND REMANDED.

Michael D. Maxwell, West Des Moines, for appellant.

Mark McCormick, Roger T. Stetson, Margaret C. Callahan, and Robert D. Sharp of Belin Lamson McCormick Zumbach Flynn, P.C., for appellees.

[Isa]

Getting back to main subject:

These folks need a sting.
Women sits in middle of bus.
Get thugs, the ones who know how to thump,dress them like Heredim and watch the fun when some heredim fool starts bothering the women to go to the back.

[Ariel Sokolovsky]

B"H
They probably couldn't agree on a "neutral" Beis Din to use to resolve this.

[David Bar-Magen]

I'm worried about this, frankly. The haredim are not the type to be impressed by demonstrations, and I wonder if such a public showing would only serve to draw more specific bullseyes around the participants and invite further terrorization from the fringe element.

[yona loriner]

mordecai what r u talkin bout????????? ur comin from left field just like fm usually does!!! what u answered me has nothing to do with any post on here and not the topic either so whateve moron!!!

[Mordecai]

Yona:

Yes it is relevant to this posting. This is about Orthodox zealotry in a broader reading of the post. My point is many of these zealots establish rules for the rest of us to follow and seek to apply those rules with stringency and with nauseating self-righteousness. However, often, they are all too eager to skirt their own self-righteous axioms when their own self-interest is at stake.

This web-site comments upon hypocrisy of the "Orthodox," so the posting is relevant.

Ariel:

B"H
They probably couldn't agree on a "neutral" Beis Din to use to resolve this

Oh, my dear friend, so you mean the Dayan Jewsih Judges are NOT impartial. Are you suggesting that they are biased? Are you suggesting that they have an axe to grind? Are you suggesting that they will render a decision based upon petty factional interests as opposed to the loft principles of Talmud? Are you suggesting that they will interpret Talmud to suit self-interst? Thet are not neutral you say. Don't you think we know that?