5 Haredi men beat woman who refused to move to back of bus

Jonathan Lis of Ha'aretz reports:

Five assailants believed to be Ultra-Orthodox Jews assaulted a woman and an Israel Defense Forces soldier Sunday for sitting next to each other on a bus bound for Beit Shemesh, near Jerusalem.

The incident began when the five men asked the religious woman to move to the back of the bus to prevent males and females from sitting together in public. When she refused, they beat her and the male soldier who sat next to her.

Police forces that arrived at the scene to arrest the men were attacked by dozens of ultra-Orthodox men who punctured the tires of their vehicles, allowing the assailants to escape. No one was hurt in the incident.

The ultra-Orthodox community in Beit Shemesh has been at odds with Egged over their demands that the bus company operates so-called "kosher" lines where woman and men are seated seperately.

In 2006 dozens of Haredi protestors took to the streets, hurling stones and eggs to demonstrate against the bus company. In one incident, a bus driver who was attacked fired his handgun in the air to fend off his assailants.

Comments

[C-Girl]

Is there any outrage in any hareidi communities over this behavior? How about in the communities the women who have been beaten up come from?

Egged should just cut these people off. Don't want to ride with women? Walk.

Or maybe they could start using big donkey carts to haul these crazy shtetlniks around in. It would make for some great tourist photo ops, for sure.

[Ari]

The bus driver should have fired his gun into the crowd, not the air...

[Dr Fred]

The inability, and fatal flaw, of religious extremists i.e., the inability to set limits, will results in limits being set by society. It won't be pretty,but it's inevitable.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Rosa Parks would be dead if these behamos were on the bus with her.

[Ari]

Dr. Fred, I fear that day as well. Hopefully the enlightened in the world will grow the Tchachkes to stand up to extremists long before then.

[Abe]

Too bad the soldier didn't have his rifle with him. A few incapacitated hareidim might have focused on hareidi taliban extremeism growing in Israel.

[Garnel Ironheart]

I wonder what the response would be if a gang of Chilonim were to get on a mehadrin bus and attack two men for sitting together?

[David]

From what I've seen of these Haredim, I'm actually kind of surprised that only five of them were able to handle a soldier and his girlfriend.

[Fleishike Kishke]

I am currently developing a new gadget for the frum community. I'll call it a Light Sabre. You can fight women on the city bus and check them for bugs simultaneously.

[zach]

Garnel Ironheart: I wonder what the response would be if a gang of Chilonim were to get on a mehadrin bus and attack two men for sitting together?

Have you heard of this ever happening? Don't be a moron.

[Ahavah]

I agree with the poster above: Just stop running buses to their neighborhood. If they can't respect other people's right to religious freedom, then they should just walk.

[Frum Jew]

serves them secular right. they were first asked to move. if they can't respect the sensitivities of the other passengers (or more accurately, if the dude can't be without his girlfriend for more than five minutes), they deserved it.

[Frum Jew]

/Is there any outrage in any hareidi communities over this behavior?/

Is there any outrage in any secular communities over this behavior of ignoring other peoples sensitivities and requests?

/Egged should just cut these people off. Don't want to ride with women? Walk./

know before you spew your venom. the haredim are eggeds biggest customers.

/Or maybe they could start using big donkey carts to haul these crazy shtetlniks around in. It would make for some great tourist photo ops, for sure./

why can't all those pritzusdik chilonim ride in those carts instead?

/The bus driver should have fired his gun into the crowd, not the air.../

you lowly nazi jew hater. or maybe you meant he should have shot those secular lovers?

/Rosa Parks would be dead if these behamos were on the bus with her./

name me even ONE secular jew who was killed by a haredi. just one.

/Too bad the soldier didn't have his rifle with him. A few incapacitated hareidim might have focused on hareidi taliban extremeism growing in Israel./

more chiloni nazism. you are such filth and dirt.

[Ari]

"Frum" Jew,

If those despicable wastes of oxygen can't respect that others don't have the same sensitivities as them, then they don't deserve to be able to use the bus. It aint their bus.

Anti-frum sentiment becomes understandable when confronted with idiots like you.

May your name be erased.

[Frum Jew]

/If those despicable wastes of oxygen can't respect that others don't have the same sensitivities as them, then they don't deserve to be able to use the bus. It aint their bus.

are you that thickheaded that you see no distinction between the above quoted comment and the one where you said:

The bus driver should have fired his gun into the crowd, not the air...

try to get rid of that mountain of self hate and venom and PERHAPS, MAYBE you'll get it.

/Anti-frum sentiment becomes understandable when confronted with idiots like you./

anti-chiloni sentiment becomes understandable when confronted with thickheaded moron jew haters like you./

/May your name be erased./

big words, being spewed by a moldy pea brain.

[Ari]

I was being sarcastic, whereas you actually believe the shit that comes out of your mouth.

Way to invoke Godwin's Law, retard...

[E.s.]

While "Frum" Jew clearly is immature, everyone else is being overly nasty in a case where it is obvious that the assailants are wrong.

Is it me, or does this sight just serve as a forum to point out flaws in people (which aren't even true all of the time [see R Amar on Heter Mechira])?

[Ari]

E.S.,

The issue is that this is a recurring problem, and one which the Charedi world refuses to deal with properly. It needs to be publicized, if not only to SHAME them into action.

[C-Girl]

"Frum" Jew- Did you even read the article? It says that a RELIGIOUS woman sparked the attack by not moving. Does "religious" now mean "secular"?

Go, on- amuse us now with your adorable little tirade. We're counting on you, now- don't disappoint us!

[C-Girl]

E.s., this isn't a case of just one messed-up hareidi going around Beit Shemesh assaulting women on buses and everyone's jumping on his unique flaws. This is a societal cancer that is growing unchecked in a permissive environment.

For some reason that I & others cannot fathom, it seems to be open season on women in Beit Shemesh and other similar enclaves.
There is no way to justify this. It is offensive.

If, instead of hareidi men, the bus had been filled with Muslims who demanded that Jews riding on the same bus sit in the back... Imagine the scenario. So is those hereidim's behavior okay because it's only women they're abusing? Twisted.

[The Monsey Tzadik]

When I was reading the post I was thinking ‘wait till the Christ-current Spins it out'. First they will blame Haaretz for being anti-Semite, anti religious etc and then will blame the woman for inviting it on herself.

But then ‘frum jew’ who is obviously a BT came along and we just can see the faces of evil. There was a charedi poster on one of the Israeli forum who said after charedi molestation case that the child brought the molestation on himself, it was probably ‘frum jew’/bt.

We are so lucky to live in United States where charedim, taliban and others cannot force their way on the rest of us.

Can we petition NATO to drop some MOAB on Ramat Beit Shemesh Bet. ? That place is en evil place. The other areas of Beit Shemesh has normal people, even normal charedis.

[Dr Fred]

Frum Jew:We learn in Pirke Avot that ( only) One who respects others is worthy of respect.A bus is a public mode of transit; all paying passengers have equal rights.No passenger has the right to dictate where another should or should not sit.Of course, such fundamentals of Derech Eretz are probably considered too Goyish to be taken seriously by these frummers,and that's their problem...and ours.

[chief doofis]

The greatest Posek of the 2nd half of the 20th century, R. Moshe Feinstein, paskened that men and women can sit together on the same car seat (in public) because a car is an "Agala G'dola" (A large wagon, and hence the movement of the car, vibrations, etc, do not cause any violation of the laws of Yichud and Nidda)
Certainly, there would be no question of riding on a public bus together. There would be no fear that he couple would become intimate, etc.

Why do these people have to keep coming up with new and more stringent Chumrot? All they are doing is destroying the image of a Torah observant Jew. One need not be an inconsiderate misogynist, in order to be "frum". You can be "frum" and a mentch, at the same time!!

[Dr Fred]

chief doofis: To answer you, it's because, to the mind of the frum, the essense of Judaism is ( wholly) contained in ritual observance.Therefore, the stricter the outwardly observant you are, the more Jewish you are.The sensitivity,kindness etc. implied in the term Mentsch are of little consequence,( to these people) a cop-out,and probably Goyish to boot.It's all very sad, and if allowed to continue without opposition, will destroy organized Judaism ( a probable oxymoron anyway).

[Isa]

A sting is needed....
Wait till this is forgotten...
Then same scenero, except the heredim sitting in front of the bus are Shin Bet goons...
get the idea?
Do it again of course...
Of course the attackers get to sit in prison for a couple of days...
Next time the idiots see this maybe they just got to figure, is it a setup?

[a comment on YW]

Hey, if people cannot respect the Rules that the majority want & that incidentally were given by G-d at Sinai, & are sacred to the moral upkep of the community, then you just gotta take tje law into your own hands. So she gets smacked up a bit!! What’s the big deal? Maybe she and her preetsusdikke friends will cover up a bit and have some respect for G-d fearing people, who just happen to be the majority. Let’s cool it as bit. It takes some courage & a lot of guts to stand up for what is right & to dole out some “petch” when necessary!!

[Nigritude Ultramarine]

name me even ONE secular jew who was killed by a haredi. just one.

Yitzchak Rabin

[Frum Jew]

Yitzchak Rabin

AMIR WAS NOT HAREDI!!!!!

[Angry at this Injustice]

Is there any outrage in any secular communities over this behavior of ignoring other peoples sensitivities and requests?

On what legal authority are the "sensitivities and requests" of charedim higher than the "sensitivities and requests" of non-charedim? Please cite the appropriate sources in Israeli law.

What of the sensitivities of Jews (secular and religious) who think that Jews dressing like 18th century Poles and Lithuanians in a Middle Eastern Jewish country is stupid?

What of the sensitivities of passengers who are offended by civilian passengers who board the bus and start bossing them around ?

What of the sensitivities of passengers who are offended by other passengers who are in their faces claiming to be better and more moral than they?

know before you spew your venom. the haredim are eggeds biggest customers.

Okay. You're right.

Iran is one of Russia's biggest nuclear technology customers. So, they shouldn't cut off helping them develop the bomb.

Secular or religious: Money trumps all!!!

why can't all those pritzusdik chilonim ride in those carts instead?

Because they're not the ones acting like bullies!!! If these jerks don't know how to ride public transportation without beating people up, then they don't deserve to ride them. That goes for secular, religious, Jew, non-Jew, anyone.

you lowly nazi jew hater. or maybe you meant he should have shot those secular lovers?

Ohhhhh! So you are offended by the thought of the bus driver shooting one of the charedim, but you'd be okay if he "shot those secular lovers"? Niiiiice!

name me even ONE secular jew who was killed by a haredi. just one.

These two almost were.

more chiloni nazism. you are such filth and dirt.

While I don't agree with the original post's comment about incapacited charedim, your comments don't make you seem any better.

[Nigritude Ultramarine]

AMIR WAS NOT HAREDI!!!!!

Oh, I don't no about that. He attended chareidishe elementary and high schools.

/BTW, Amir is still alive

chief doofis: To answer you, it's because, to the mind of the frum, the essense of Judaism is ( wholly) contained in ritual observance.Therefore, the stricter the outwardly observant you are, the more Jewish you are.The sensitivity,kindness etc. implied in the term Mentsch are of little consequence,( to these people) a cop-out,and probably Goyish to boot.It's all very sad, and if allowed to continue without opposition, will destroy organized Judaism ( a probable oxymoron anyway).

Posted by: Dr Fred | October 21, 2007 at 08:17 PM
------------------------------------------
Dr. Fred does not know what he is talking about. It is because they consider Rabbi Feinstein to have been Reform!
Oh, wait, Dr. Fred is right, also.

[Bob]

Scott,

I give you credit. You didn't add your own thoughts to the article.

Keep it up!

[jonathan rosenblum Does Hannah Montana]

AMIR WAS NOT HAREDI!!!!!
==========================
You are an idiot ! Amir went for yeshiva ketana to Yishuv chadah which is charedi yeshiva. To say that he is religious Zionist because he went to Kerem is like saying that Howard Din is a Modern Orthodox because he went to Einstein.

[Neandershort]

Or maybe they could start using big donkey carts to haul these crazy shtetlniks around in. It would make for some great tourist photo ops, for sure.

Maybe those haredi asses should be pulling the donkey carts.

[Alex]

Israel ought to set up anti religious-extremism laws. They seem to need it.

[HAREDI JEW]

THEY SHOULD BURN AT STAKE ALL HAREDI JEWES
(THAT IS YOUR REAL WISH)
WITH G-D'S HELP THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN

[David]

I think the argument about respecting people's religious sentiments is a poor one. The Egged bus is a public acommodation for everybody-- not just those with extremist sentiments.

Haredim cannot expect to make policy on busses that happen to pass through their neighborhood, and nobody-- but NOBODY-- deserves to be beaten or attacked because of where or with whom he or she chooses to sit. Period.

[Yochanan Lavie]

They wouldn't have the balls to do this on a New York City MTA bus in Brooklyn. They hate the medina, then take advantage of it.

[R]

"Hey, if people cannot respect the Rules that the majority want & that incidentally were given by G-d at Sinai, & are sacred to the moral upkep of the community, then you just gotta take tje law into your own hands. So she gets smacked up a bit!! What’s the big deal?"

YW, if this is how people think, no wonder the Jews are in such a mess.
Anyway who is the majority? It's a public service paid for by all Israelis that pay to use it and that isn't only the charedi.
Then the charedim wonder why they have a bad name. It is not against torah to sit next to someone of the opposite sect on a bus. however i find it amusing that they are all against women sitting next to a male, but it's ok to be in such close proximity and hit a woman which also includes touching her...hmm not so frum anymore.
They are all into their chumras which have no basis to halacha and it's one thing for them to be like that, but to force it upon others with violence is just a plain violation of the torah they seem to be so zealously upholding. All they are, are a bunch of violent scum and have nothing to do with torah or G-d.

THEY SHOULD BURN AT STAKE ALL HAREDI JEWES
(THAT IS YOUR REAL WISH)
WITH G-D'S HELP THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN

Haredi Jew -

No that is not our wish.

Our wish is that you guys would GROW UP ALREADY!!!!

Do you really think that this sort of behaviour is a mature, G-d fearing, example that is a light unto the nations or a Kiddush HaShem?

[Neo-Conservaguy]

Remember this incident, especially the riot when the police arrived, the next time someone posts a video of the Israeli police delivering a beat-down to men in black hats. Perhaps, God forbid, it will be richly deserved.

[Lawrence M. Reisman]

"They wouldn't have the balls to do this on a New York City MTA bus in Brooklyn."

In Brooklyn, Charedim run their own bus lines between Manhattan and Brooklyn, and within Brooklyn. Those who are sensitive about the issue ride the charedi buses. In Israel, Egged doesn't want the competition on charedi-frequented routes, so it runs a limited number of mehadrin buses.

It would be far better if Egged just gave up on Charedi patronage, the charedim started their own bus lines, and Egged announced that if charedim don't like the way Egged runs things, they have their own buses to go to.

[chief doofis]

I grew up in the "Litvish" Yeshiva world. I had Rebbeim, who studied under the greatest of the pre War Gedolim (The Chafets Chaim, R. Boruch Ber, etc.). We never heard of Charedim (until about 10 -15 years ago, AND we (and our Rebbeim), rode the busses and subways in New York!! (Together with women, Gentiles, etc!!)

Where is all this stuff coming from? What Roshei Yeshiva and principals of girl's schools would have "kvelled" over in 1970, is now "prust". Who rewrote the Torah since then?
All this is accomplishing, is to drive a wedge between Jews. Where does it say that black is holier than gray? Why is it more proper to say Choylom instead of Cholom? Was the Vilna Gaon "modern"? Why can't a husband and wife sit next to each other on a bus? Even stupider: If a young man and a young woman, even with black hat, long sleeves, etc. are on a date, how will they ever come to "tachlis", if they are on opposite ends of a bus? TAYKU?

[Ari]

Doofis, I'm totally with you, especially on the incessant appending of the extra yud (or "y") to the vov (or "o") as a sign of being more frum. I had friends that did not do this, and then all of a sudden when they "flipped" out decided to start pronouncing differently. I want to smack them upside the head sometimes...

[chief doofis]

Ari: The Gemara in Berachot cites several places in the Shema, where one word ends with the same sound that the next word begins with, and enjoins us to be careful, and separate the two. Thus B'chol Livavecha, etc. If a "cholom" was really a "choylom", the Gemara should also include "B'itoy Yoyreh"!! (as opposed to B'itto Yoreh). Since the list does not include the two, the sound cannot have been "Oy"

[Ari]

Nice, doofis, I like it

If you have it off the top of your head, could you point out what daf it's on?

[chief doofis]

B'rachot 15B

[Ari]

Thanks much!

"AMIR WAS NOT HAREDI!!!!!
==========================
You are an idiot ! Amir went for yeshiva ketana to Yishuv chadah which is charedi yeshiva. To say that he is religious Zionist because he went to Kerem is like saying that Howard Din is a Modern Orthodox because he went to Einstein.
----------------------------------
You mean Howard DEAN.

"It is not against torah to sit next to someone of the opposite sect on a bus."
----------------------------------------
Actually, it is even worse than sitting next to someone of the opposite SEX!