Haredi Rabbis Ban Sukkot Water-Drawing Festivities Because of "Lewdness"; Chabad To Hold Ceremony Anyway

Briefly, the non-hasidic haredim led by Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv have banned concerts and other outdoor public gatherings meant to be enjoyable (as opposed to long "Torah" gatherings meant to bore participants forced to endure long speeches by often elderly rabbis).

The haredim expended the ban this year to the yearly outdoor Sukkot water-drawing festivities held across Israel. Why? Because of "lewdness" – if the events are held outdoors, men and women may find ways to mix and, well, you know where that could lead. The ban is so strong that the city of Bnei Brak canceled its water-drawing celebration.

But there is a crack in the ban, Chabad has water-drawing celebrations scheduled for its neighborhoods and has refused to comply with the ban. Ha'aretz reports:

A spokesman for Tzeirei Chabad, the Chabad youth organization, told Haaretz "We are not opposing the rabbis and are not holding any shows. We have brought to the attention of the Torah sages that for us this is not just a street event, but one that has gone on for years and has value. There is value in holding the events in public. It is not just for the ultra-Orthodox public, but for the wider public, and men and women will remain separate."

Ha'aretz also reports that Neturei Karta, of all people, are planning to hold a demonstration of protest against Chabad's decision at the Jerusalem water-drawing celebration.

Chabad's celebration will probably get out of hand. Every haredi looking for a good time and willing to violate the ban will be there. So will secular Israelis, Western university students studying in Israel and yeshiva/seminary students on one year Israel programs.

What would have been a normal if somewhat loose event may turn into a giant clash between Chabad leaders trying desperately to keep a lid on things and revelers looking for a good time. And, this being Chabad, the Vodka will be flowing.

I suspect in the end haredi leaders will have much to criticize and much about which to say I told you so. That haredi over reaction contributed strongly to this situation is a fact haredi leaders will never admit or understand.

Comments

[Yochanan Lavie]

I wonder how the "sages" would have reacted to King David's dancing in front of the aron. Much like Michal, Shaul's daughter, did.

[avi]

So, Shmarya is actually supporting Chabad!

May we merit to see the real thing!

Happy Sukkos
Gut Yom Tov

[Renee]

I have never been to anything at Chabad that did NOT get out of hand.

I went to Simchas Torah at a non kiruv Lubavitch synagogue once and was treated to sheital wearing drunken women doing the can-can in front of the men where a knocked down mechitza had been. Not pretty.

The Rabbi, himself having made kiddush on a pint of Chivas was in no shape to stop it.

[Sephardic-Male]

more proof that orthodox judaism is a cult which is run by insane rabbis and thier BS rules

[anonymous]

BS'D

As a Chabad chossid myself, I am embarrassed that Chabad seems to be ignoring again, as usual, the opinions of the non-Chabad rabbonim.

Why do we forget that we are fellow Jews who should follow the recommendations and rulings of the gedoilim, and not act so 'above it all' ignoring their rulings?

We preach being modest, and we act stuck up. To be 'in your face' defying the rulings of gedoilim, just because they are not Lubavitch is separating ourselves from klall Yisroel.

We need to learn to respect other opinions and rulings, and not making light of the words of today's gedoilim just because they are not Chabad.

Maybe it all started when some ignorant Chabad 'chassidim' started saying 'we are the only Real Chassdus' and all the rest are not real Chassidim.

That horribly insulting concept, shows the ignorance and blinded attitudes of our current leaders who allow this kind of thinking to proliferate.

We are Chassidim, yes. We are Chassdim of a Rebbe who was a great godol and tzaddik. However, there are dozens of other Chassidisher Rebbes and Rabbonim today whose words we must not make light of.

We also must stop talking about the Rebbe as if he was the leader of all Klall Yisroel. While he was alive, he was 'one of many' gedoilim, and certainly did not represent the majority.

To keep repeating this shtus is to continue to insult the Chareidi world.

When are we going to show the ahavas Yisroel that we preach?

Are not other Chareidim as important as thost whom we approach for mivtzaim?

We continuously slap other Chareidim, yirai shamayim, in the face, ignoring them as though they are meaningless.... maybe it is because we do not currently have a leader. Our Rebbe, Olov Hasholom, was niftar, and we are without leadership.

I cannot believe that the Rebbe would condone this current haughty attitude of ours. And... if you would succeed to convince me that he would, I would leave Chabad, for that is wrong.

Chabad is not the only acceptable form of Yiddishkeit.

Chabad is NOT the only true chassidus.

Satmar, Munkacs, Ger, Bobov, Skvere, Kloisenberger, Skolen, and many others are also TRUE CHASSIDIM, and TRUE CHASSIDUS.

If a godol disagrees with Chabad, it does not mean he is a misnaged.

We keep showing everyone how great we are by how many people we drag into our Chabad Houses, and how many Chabad Houses we build all over the US, etc., ... But we never stop and praise these other Chassidim for the Tzdaka and Chessed they are doing that is beyond any in the history of Yidishkeit, or for the wonderful Yeshivois and Moisdois they build, and for the amazing kehillois of theirs that are thriving and growing beyond imagination.

We are not the only ones doing wonders... look around us!

We put these wonderful Chassidim down with snide comments, and ignorant remarks. That is horrible and bad enough. But this increased ignoring of their rulings is abominable.

I am deeply ashamed these days to be a Lubavitcher Chossid.

Okay... I will not get off my soap box.

Let us all.... ALL Chassidim, those with 'down hats' and those with Shtreimlech, all respect each other and every admire and recognize each others rulings.

Let us all enjoy the Sukkos Yom Tov and have a G'Mar Toiv.

Signed,
One Lubo who does not spit at other Chassidim, Chassidishe Rebbes, and Gedoilim

[PishPosh]

Isnt Succot festivities where all the young men and woman gathered in Yerushalaim for more or less the biggest singles party Israel would hold at the time

[DK]

"That haredi overreaction contributed strongly to this situation is a fact haredi leaders will never admit or understand."

Good point!

[Yaakov]

Wow, more disinformation from the master of disinformation. As a matter of fact, the Simchas Beis Hashoeva was a tremendous success, bringing together many Yiddin to dance and sing together in the spirit of Ahavas Yisrael(and yes not to drink). If someone (especially a wanna-be Chabad Chasid has a problem) he can check the actions of numerous Rabbanim (and the "Lubavitcher" can check any volume of Likutei Sichos) who participated in such events years before. There was nothing to control, no girls and boys mixing (as a matter of fact, not one women was visible - they were all in the sukkas in Kaliv and other places around the area), and generally a good time had by all. It ended early (around Hatzos) and there was not one public bottle of vodka (ask the police, they provided protection and arrested no one for public drunkenness, because there was none). Also, hundreds of kids made circles, and it was a fantastic time to see kids of all backgrounds joining together in the spirit of true Ahavas Yisrael. So please don't attempt to cast misinterpretations about something which you clearly know nothing about.

[Neo-Conservaguy]

"Isnt Succot festivities where all the young men and woman gathered in Yerushalaim for more or less the biggest singles party Israel would hold at the time"

Indeed, this was probably the original reason for the creation of the "women's gallery" - to protect the women from the drunken (Roman-influenced) debauchery occurring at those parties.

[Shmarya]

So please don't attempt to cast misinterpretations about something which you clearly know nothing about.

Didn't score too high in reading comprehension, now did you?

[pushkina]

WOW! Reb anonymous,

kol ha kavod for the truthful things you say above. i'm going to assume also that you don't hold that the late rebbe was the moshiach, simply because you seem to be very forthright in what you say. would to g@d, that all chabadniks were as honest and open as you.

unfortunately, we don't hear often from a lubavitcher that chabad is NOT the only acceptable form of jewish living. where i live, by virtue of communal abdication, it HAS become de facto the only accepted form of non-reformed jewishness.

thanks for your sharing your point of view.

[Rebitzman]

<>

It seems instead that Shmarya exposes what he views to be stupidity or insanity where he sees it - and acknowledges the rational and the sane where he finds them.

Chabad - like all of us - kind of hops from one side of the line of demarcation to the other.

[Rebitzman]

<>

Last time you posted this to someone I kind of objected - this time I can only stand in utter awe and agree with you.

[Rebitzman]

*So, Shmarya is actually supporting Chabad!*

It seems instead that Shmarya exposes what he views to be stupidity or insanity where he sees it - and acknowledges the rational and the sane where he finds them.

Chabad - like all of us - kind of hops from one side of the line of demarcation to the other.

[Rebitzman]

*So, Shmarya is actually supporting Chabad!*

It seems instead that Shmarya exposes what he views to be stupidity or insanity where he sees it - and acknowledges the rational and the sane where he finds them.

Chabad - like all of us - kind of hops from one side of the line of demarcation to the other.

[Rebitzman]

*So, Shmarya is actually supporting Chabad!*

It seems instead that Shmarya exposes what he views to be stupidity or insanity where he sees it - and acknowledges the rational and the sane where he finds them.

Chabad - like all of us - kind of hops from one side of the line of demarcation to the other.

[Rebitzman]

*So, Shmarya is actually supporting Chabad!*

It seems instead that Shmarya exposes what he views to be stupidity or insanity where he sees it - and acknowledges the rational and the sane where he finds them.

Chabad - like all of us - kind of hops from one side of the line of demarcation to the other.

[Rebitzman]

Well - there's a server burp. I hit send ONCE, but.....

[avi]

Anonymous,

"I am deeply ashamed these days to be a Lubavitcher Chossid."

Without sounding like I don't care, it sounds like you haven't been a "Lubavitcher Chossid" for some time.

The Rebbe knew what the scene was when he started the dancing on Sukkos.

And there were plenty of "critics" at the time, as ususal. But he did it anyway!

Chabad doesn't condone "mixing". But these Chareidi "bans" are just Taliban Judaism.

BTW, last night I danced with all types of Jews in Crown Heights, including all the groups you mentioned. It was great! And the
unity and happiness was phenomenal

Regards,

Avi

Indeed, this was probably the original reason for the creation of the "women's gallery" - to protect the women from the drunken (Roman-influenced) debauchery occurring at those parties.

So what evil others are influnces Jews to drink now. I wish we could just claim some responsibility when we do wrong.

[avi]

The earliest reference to a mechitza (partition) between men and women is in Gemora Succah 51b in the description of the balcony that was erected each year in the Beis Hamikdosh for the use of women during the simchas beis hasho'eivo (water drawing ceremony).

Initially women had been placed in the ezras noshim (women's section of the Beis Hamikdosh) and men outside. This had led to light-headedness.

At a later stage men were placed inside with the women sitting outside, but again there were the same consequences.

Finally, projections were inserted into the walls of the ezras noshim and each year a balcony assembled. The women sat in the raised section with the men below.

(www.chabadtalk.com/go/ph/ph-10.htm )