When Renewal Meets The Reality Of Kosher

Hazon is planning its second annual Kosher Food Conference and they have decided to shecht (ritually slaughter) an animal, probably a lamb, so attendees can see what kosher slaughter is. Nigel Savage writes on The Jew and the Carrot:

…So now we’re planning the 2nd Annual Hazon Food Conference, and started to get into this. How do we do it? Is it legal? Where do we do it? Who does it? How do we get it certified as kosher?

The first thing we found out (and this surprised me): meat has to be hung up for a few days before you can eat it. So we couldn’t, for instance, shecht a goat on Friday afternoon and then eat it for Friday night dinner. (Or a lamb either, of course). The solution to that is: we’ll shecht two animals: one on Friday afternoon, and anyone who wants to see an animal being killed will be able to see that. But we’ll also shecht one a week before, and that’ll be the one we’ll eat on Friday night.…

Doesn't it just charm you when an official of a Jewish organization that deals extensively with kosher food production issues doesn't have a clue when comes to, well, actual kosher food production?

Meat does not need to be be "hung up" for a few days before you can eat it. Think back to the Temple, Nigel, and the sacrifices offered there. The Torah (that book you sometimes refer to when making statements of purpose) actually describes various sacrifices in some detail. Nowhere in that detail is a command to "hang up" the meat for a few days before consumption. In fact, quite the opposite is true.

So one must presume you mean to say that the animal you slaughter will taste better if the meat is aged for a few days before cooking. While this may be true – certainly aged steaks are preferred in the non-kosher world – it is by no means necessary or even critical. Most meat eaten today is not aged. It is slaughtered, processed and vacuum-sealed within a couple of hours and is then either immediately frozen or refrigerated. It is not aged.

As for the problem mentioned later in the post, here is how to get your animal kosher certified:

1. Ask the rabbi who certifies the conference center kitchen to recommend a shochet.
2. Get a letter from the kosher certifying agency approving that shochet and permitting the use of the meat from that slaughter on a one-time basis. Make sure to point out that the slaughter is being done for Jewish educational purposes.
3. Be prepared to pay to have a rabbi of the kosher certifying agency's choice supervise the slaughter, bedika (checking the lungs), treibering (removal of forbidden fats, etc.), and koshering of the meat.
4. Allot several hours pre-cooking for bedika, treibering, soaking, salting and related work.
5. Have a back-up plan in case the animal is ruled non-kosher after slaughter.
6. Have a plan for use of the animal's hindquarters that does not include a Jew eating its meat.

In other words, there is more to kosher slaughter than the act of slaughter itself. You must be prepared to do all that is necessary to make the animal's meat kosher for use.

If you can do all that, you should be able to shecht an animal for kosher consumption at your conference.

Comments

[Warren Burstein]

I got nasty habits, I take tea at three
Yes, and the meat I eat for dinner
Must be hung up for a week
My best friend, he shoots water rats
And feeds them to his geese
Doncha think there's a place for you
In between the sheets?

m. jagger/k. richards

[steve]

This week's parsha discussed the Ben Sorer Umoreh, the wayward son. One of the conditions listed in Maseches Sanhedrin to classify one as a wayward son is that he has to have stolen aged meat. Recently, the OU held a Fress Fest at The Prime Grill in Beverly Hills. The Prime Grill prides itself as the home of the aged steak.

Shmarya noted correctly that sacrifices that were not eaten within their prescribed time (chataos and todos by the following dawn, shelamim by sundown the second day)were classified as "nossar" and anyone who ate from them a shiur incurred the penalty of kares.

[Lev]

Chazon is nonsense, unfortunately.
Hareidi people are sometimes more successful in all worthless "outreach"

[Nachman]

Reminds me of an old joke:
A Jew walks into an eatery and inquires about the kashruth situation by the not-so-kosher looking owner/chef. The owner responds: "Look at the wall! Don't you see all the rabbis I have hanging here"?
Replies the customer: "If YOU were hanging and THEY were cooking I'd feel much more confident..."
HANG NOT THE MEAT, rather hang those who know nothing about it yet claim to know ALL about it...

[Micky]

Or better yet, realize what bullshit kashrus is, and eat what u want. What one group (Chabad) considers kosher another orthodox group won't eat and vice versa. However those in the kosher meat business get to screw their fellow Jew especially around Rosh Hashanah and Pesach with $100. briskets.

[Stephen Mendelsohn]

BS"D

Have these good folks at Hazon ever heard of korban Pesach, where the lamb was shechted mid-day on erev Pesach for consumption that night?

My question is what is the purpose of this? Why would a Jewish environmentalist organization want to demonstrate live shechita -- especially when animal-based diets are far more taxing on the environment than plant-based ones? (see the study by Gidon Eshel and Pamela Martin at http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/06/060413.diet.shtml

Changing one's light bulbs to CFLs is all to the good (but make sure you can accomodate those sensitive to fluorescent light, be careful not to accidentally break them, and recycle after they burn out). But meat-eating is far more taxing on the environment that incandescent light bulbs. If one is to teach by example, then refraining from meat would be a better way of promoting environmental awareness and respect for the mitzvah of bal tashchit.

[Not Bar Knot]

aha- so there's the rub - how can the guy lose? He's obviously pushing some feel good renewal agenda so if he asks the rabbis who currently give the hashgacha about this idea and they say no he's a victim of the ortho conspiracy and he yells "fowl" (I couldn't resist) - if he actually does it, how many vegans are going to line up for their organic goat jerk? As one of the commentators on their blog said, he'll probably end up making a lot of new vegetarians (which is opart and parcel of the agenda anyway) plus eithe way he'll get loads of publicity and he can fundrais fromn his people as nauseum - It's frickin brilliant!

[Neo-Conservaguy]

"6. Have a plan for use of the animal's hindquarters that does not include a Jew eating its meat."

Or better yet, get a Sephardic shochet/butcher that hasn't forgotten the once-common art of properly removing the forbidden parts of the leg quarter and then enjoy a great spit-roasted treat.

[Lev]

Nor Bar Knot, you right, unfortunately.

[yona loriner]

how pathetic its reallllllly amaizing that ppl believe these things..

[yona loriner]

rediculious

[Richard Schwartz]

As president of Jewish Vegetarians of North America (JVNA), and a long-time supporter of Hazon, I am appalled that an environmentally and socially-conscious group like Hazon would sponsor such an event. At a time when the world is rapidly appraching an unprecedented catastrophe from global warming and other environmental threats, and when the UN FAO and other reports have documented that animal-based agriculture is a major contributor to these threats, Hazon could do a great kiddush Hashem by leading in efforts to make people aware that it is essential that there be a major shift towards plant-based diets. Rather than having such an event, how about hazon sponsoring a debate on “Should Jews be Vegetarians?” Perhaps Hazon can help end the Jewish community’s failure to consider that the production and consumption of animal products violate basic Jewish mandates to preserve our health, treat animals with compassion, protect the environment, conserve natural resources, and help hungry people. Much more might be said re this issue, but one final comment: Is this the way that rachmanim b’nei rachmanim (compassionate children of compassionate ancestors) should act?

[Shmarya]

Much more might be said re this issue, but one final comment: Is this the way that rachmanim b’nei rachmanim (compassionate children of compassionate ancestors) should act?

Your "compassionate" ancestors, Richard, ate entire baby lambs roasted whole on spits.

[Stephen Mendelsohn]

BS"D

Our ancestors may have eaten korban Pesach and other korbanot roasted on spits, but they did not get their animals from inhumane mass factory farms which castrated and mutilated the animals prior to shechita, nor (more relevant to the current discussion) were there over 7 billion people on the planet farming many more billions of animals in a global meat, egg, and dairy system that is responsible for a significant portion of environmental destruction, including the largest share of methane and nitrous oxide emmisions. 3000 years ago, all meat was by today's standards, local and organic. Korbanot were not being procured through the importation of (shackle-and-hoist) meat from South America, the main source of kosher meat for modern Israelis. And back then, eating animal products was necessary for good health; our ancestors did not have vitamin B12 fortification the way we do today. What was Jewishly appropriate to the circumstances of 3000 years ago may not be today.

Is what Hazon wants to do by shechting a lamb mutar (halachcally permissible)? Narrowly speaking, yes. But is it ha-yashar ve-ha-tov (right and good before HaShem)? Especially for a Jewish environmental organization that should be promoting -- by example -- dietary practices that are not only kosher by traditional understanding but also consistent with its environmental mission? Probably not. Richard Schwartz and his colleagues have a right to expect more from Hazon than from the OU on this one. Judaism, properly understood, demands more than mere adherence to the strict letter of the law. It's a problem for too much of the Orthodox world, and now it's a problem for Hazon as well.

[Shmarya]

They're getting a humanely raised lamb.

[Not Bar Knot]

so richard - why don't you start a "save Bambi" campaign and boycott the conference nin the name of what you feel the spirit - if not the letter - of the law is being violated

[Michael Croland]

First of all, thanks to Shmarya for being on top of things, as always!

I just wrote a rather lengthy post on my blog about the proposed shechita demo at Hazon's conference: heebnvegan.blogspot.com/2007/08/shechting-goat-at-hazon-conference-no.html

Here are my summary points:

* It must be taken into consideration that the meat from the shechted animals might be deemed treif, making all this be for naught and essentially meaning that these animals would have died for nothing.
* The tremendous fear and suffering that a goat would experience by being shechted in front of a large, nervous crowd in a foreign environment must be taken into consideration in evaluating whether the shechita demo should take place.
* Regardless of whether animals are shechted as part of it, the conference should include a discussion about vegetarianism and meat consumption in the Jewish tradition.
* A video should be shown to educate conference attendees about shechita if the organizers are committed to showing what shechita entails.
* It shouldn’t be seen as “extreme” if someone, like my mother and even at least one of the conference organizers, does not want to support a conference that actively promotes something that violates their ethical values.

[Shmarya]

* It must be taken into consideration that the meat from the shechted animals might be deemed treif, making all this be for naught and essentially meaning that these animals would have died for nothing.

The educational value still remains and the meat can be given to poor non-Jews.

* The tremendous fear and suffering that a goat would experience by being shechted in front of a large, nervous crowd in a foreign environment must be taken into consideration in evaluating whether the shechita demo should take place.

This should not be a problem. You can check Dr. Temple Grandin's research on this.

* Regardless of whether animals are shechted as part of it, the conference should include a discussion about vegetarianism and meat consumption in the Jewish tradition.
* A video should be shown to educate conference attendees about shechita if the organizers are committed to showing what shechita entails.

Agreed.

* It shouldn’t be seen as “extreme” if someone, like my mother and even at least one of the conference organizers, does not want to support a conference that actively promotes something that violates their ethical values.

If Hazon were an exclusively vegetarian organization, I would agree with you. But it is not.

Here is a direct link to Michael's post:

http://heebnvegan.blogspot.com/2007/08/shechting-goat-at-hazon-conference-no.html

[Kung Fu Jew 18]

Failed Messiah is not very knowledgeable himself about animal slaughter:

http://jcarrot.org/does-meat-need-to-be-hung-up-after-it%e2%80%99s-slaughtered/

[Shmarya]

Really? I noted the reason for aging meat in my post. It is neither necessary or commonly done.

But I see Kung Fu Jew has a reading comnprehension problem or, more likely, a simple honesty defect.

[Michael Croland]

Shmarya,

In respnonse to my comment "The tremendous fear and suffering that a goat would experience by being shechted in front of a large, nervous crowd in a foreign environment must be taken into consideration ...", you wrote, "This should not be a problem. You can check Dr. Temple Grandin's research on this."

Could you please elaborate and/or point me in the right direction (regarding Dr. Grandin's research on this particular matter)?

Thanks!

[Shmarya]

You can see the information on her website.

Basically, as long as the people are not directly in front of the animal, it should not matter.

[Netanya]

All of these arguments, comments and professed authorities continue to defend human's right to inflict terror, pain and brutal death to animals - always quoting a higher benefit. In this instance, I guess...., its to show how compassionate kosher slaughter is. Trouble is, if one were to witness kosher/kashrus methods, I'd say it would be difficult to distinguish from non-kosher slaughter as to the animal's level of pain and suffering, and WHAT level is more 'desirable'?? And to whom? I am sure the animal doesn't desire to experience terror or pain. If a compassionate person truly looks into the eyes of the captured victim/proposed meat, or hears the cries/bellows of the dying creature as her/his life blood drips into the earth, and on the hands of the slaughterer,no level of terror and suffering could be acceptable. Therefore, face it - squabble all you want, industrial animal production, kosher and non-Kosher slaughter stinks. Our earth stinks and cries out with the blood of the billions of animals who endure misery for our belly - at our hands.