Should You Get A Gift For Giving?

Marty Bluke notes that haredi appeals for tzedaka (charity) increasingly offer the donor something for his donation – special blessings, intercession on high, etc. What happened to the idea of giving just for the sake of giving, just for the mitzva, he asks?

I answer: It doesn't work when there are so many competing charities raising money from the same pool of people, especially in a society that has so many men learning full time and not working. There is not enough money to go around, so charities need every edge they can get – even if that edge is, shall we say, garish.

A better solution would be to combine schools and community organizations to reduce or eliminate duplication. But that cuts out a lot of patronage jobs and nepotism. And that ain't gonna' happen anytime soon.

Comments

[Bain Hazmanim Adventurer]

Since I'm here anyway, even though it's not Bain Hazmanim, I couldn't resist taking this one on at the risk of being misunderstood.

"[H]aredi appeals for tzedaka (charity) increasingly offer the donor something for his donation – special blessings, intercession on high, etc."

Maybe it's because of the increasing number of BTs in the world of Orthodox donors. (please give me the benefit of the doubt that this is not derogatory)

[Isa]

I once gave money to something I thought was worthwhile. THEN I started receiving all sorts of requests for money- I was even sent candles, a picture of some rebbe I didn't know and all sorts of other stuff. THEY SOLD MY NAME to be placed on the 'sucker' list. Well anyway I sent everything back with a stiff note never to darken my mailbox again.When the original outfit asked for more funds I told them why I never wanted to hear from them again. Of my shul of old, fundraisers would come on a regular basis and put the 'bite' on everyone for something or the other in NY. I asked why they come to the Midwest- cause in NY people MIGHT give a quarter or two.

[Neandershort]

All it takes is for the donors to stop giving to every professional schnorrer. Pick and choose, and check the annual reports that charities are required to file with the state.

Hint: Organized charities with a name and reputation to protect, such as Hatzala and the Metropolitan Jewish Coordinating Council on Jewish Poverty, are more likely to be on the up-and-up than some anonymous schmo with a beard and black hat.

[Lev]

All previous posts are right, unfortunately.
There are some BT among the givers but it is only in a very FEW places out-of-town.
Large BT community in Chicago is dirt-poor.
Some of the schnorrers are BTs.
But we must never forget that the Biggest Schnorrer is Chabad; they ask from Hollywood whores-actresses,etc.
Everybody on the blog is probably familiar with the antics of "Rabbi" Cuynin (Kunin)(Cunin).
That clown came to my town with MBD in 1991 by the orders of the King(Tzar) Messiah.
In order to increase antisemitism among russkies they made a Chanukah concert in Kremlin where are not only government buildings but the main churches also.
No Neturei Karta would put remaining Jewish brethren in such a sakona.
Chabad loves frei Jews. LOL

[avrohom]

lev,

you have a heart of stone. You are a lowlife. You are jealous that chabad strives and grows in russia and they have given jewish life and spirit a rebirth in those areas. you cannot take that so you rant adn rave about them. DOn't worry, they will continue to grow. The only thing that remains to be seen is for how long your rebbis who for over decades did almost nothing to breathe yiddishkeyt to all of jewry are going to join the efforts and then reclaim that thtey did everything (as usualin your circles where you are the late comers and then you claim that you were the first).

btw: the biggest schnorrers are those "kolel" schnorrers who sit fordecadeson handouts from strangers and also families who have a heart attaack to support 5 sons in law kvethcing a bentch. All this the product of the "gedolim" who creating this horror godol!

[Alex]

"the biggest schnorrers are those "kolel" schnorrers who sit fordecadeson handouts from strangers and also families who have a heart attaack to support 5 sons in law kvethcing a bentch. All this the product of the "gedolim" who creating this horror godol!"

Newsflash --- call all the major news networks ... Avrohom and I actually agree on something!!!

[Yochanan Lavie]

Avrohom and I actually agree on something!!!

Moshiach must be coming.

[yona loriner]

this is stupid!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lev]

Dear Avrohom! You can say and think of me anything:I STRONGLY don't think that we know each other.
But what I KNOW how Chabad "strives and grows" in Russia.
I know this very well, because, UNFORTUNATELY, I was a part of it.
They are American, Israeli or Whatever citizens--countries that are Putin's sworn enemies.
How is this for "spirit and rebirth" in "thouse areas"?
How do you explain that?
Can you read Russian?
Do you know that ganovim-shiksa-banging Oligarchks have a VERY LITTLE time left before Russian People throws them out, together with Lazar-Gorin, and, just maybe, so hated by you kollel "schnorrers" will productively employ "Chief Rabbis of Russia" as toilet cleaners in BMG building?
Despite your hatred of me-really usual Chabad hate
for its religious critics like Rabbi Schah, who was absolutely harmless-let me eludicate you a little bit.
THERE NO JEWS REMAINING IN RUSSIA, everyone left.
Your Rebbe God King (Tzar) Messiah told:no "land for peace", then how is to explain Lazar's Best Friend invites HAMAS to Moscow TWICE?! How is to explain continious since "bad" Soviet times absolute support of Arabs in, with everything, incl. weapons?
Do you know that all Russian media(maybe besides your favorite half-pornographic site jewish.ru) use the term Palestine as if it is already a State?
What does shaliah-"Chief Rabbi" thinks about all of this?
On one hand he has to follow the dictates of the Righteous Messiah about Arab-Israeli conflict; on the other, if he does so he will be thrown out before his supporters.
If you don't believe me about real "spirit" and "rebirth", check this sites: ari.ru; mid.ru, fsb.ru and HUNDREDS of the vicious antisemitic websites like nowhere in the world.
Yes, "kollel schnorrers" for "decades"--more than 30 years--supported the contention that NO JEW HAS ANY VIABLE FUTURE ANYWHERE IN EASTERN EUROPE!!!
Now something personal: you verbally abuse me as much, but hopefully not more, than other non-lubavitchers.
Do you know me?
Do you know, may be, my six grade tennis partner Borya Gorin, now "Executive Secretary" (and the translator) of the "Chief Rabbi of Russia".
In 1994, on the bus from Monsey to Brooklyn he gave me hell for me being...cleanshaven!
Didn't say hello or good-bye.
Perfect, the most perfect of yours cult version of "avavas Yisroel"
The guy that was with him joined Neturei Karta lately.
They are friends with Iran...like Russia.
Long live Our Rebbe-God King(Tzar) of the Universe, Righteous Messiah For Ever and Ever(translated for you, Avrohom, from Russian newspaper published in Milwakee.
Wish you all the best.
Lowlife.

[Avrohom]

Lev hoeven,

Listen carefully, I have no problem with your criticizing lazar and his methods of working. But when when you denigrate the REbbe or his aticities I will give you an earful about your "godolim" and maybe on some of them we can make also asher yotzar. I actually respect personally some of them but it's neither here or there.

When you and your hateful friends speak and write the way you do on the Rebbe i'll remind you who your friends are.

DO You deny that there are lots of baaley teshuva or people who get close to yiddishkeyt througfh them??? If you deny that there is nothing to talk to you because besides your being a hater you are also in lala land. I know for a fact that they have yeshivos where lots of boys learn torah and become baaley teshuva. I see many baaley teshuva who come here.

The rest is not relevant to our discussion. "my hate": do you how respctful you write about the REbbe and you earn any respect? The Rabbi you mentioned was nothing but harmless...go learn history and you will find how "harmless" he was.

No Jews left in Russia? Not even 20,000 Jews? How come Rabbi Goldsmith is there? RAbbi Lebel
YOur other complaints at the people there I might agree with some of them but that is no reason for you to denigrate my REbbe!

All those sites you talk about do not erase the numerous activities of torah and mitzvot that are done in russia. I see the pictures of so many events with so many jews that all those sites are irrelevant as far as our discussion about the rebirth of judaism there is concerned.

Yes, kollel shnorrers for decades didn't have any vision. They did nothing in almost no corner in the cast world. HYst recently (the past decade in a half) they decided to jumpthe bandwagon and start mini kiolell in other areas of the world. But that was only after they see the success of lubavitch in all corners of the world and they saw the Rebbe was a milion light years ahead of them they also started doing some "kiruv" (which btw is some good - a little less schnorring and something good may cause them to do teshuva) - in the meantime chabbad is eastern europe with strong acitivites for a almost two decades abnd many many baaley teshuvas and people getting close to judaism while your doom prophets say no "NOVUABKE FUTURE" IN THE MEANTIME MANY JEWS HAVE HAD THEIR VIABLE PRESENT FOR A FEW DECADES!
I verbally abuse you, because you abuse me when you denigrate my rebbe. When you talk like that in a public forum it is fair game that you taste the medicine that you give others.

Your mentors and godolim and ktanim created a culture of shnorring, of lving off others, and also causing some theft and immoral actions...we are talknig abvout THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN SUCH IMMORAL STATE... instead of them concentrating on lubavitch's health let them find solutions for: the families that have no money, work, the mortgages that the shver has to pay, the heart attacks the shvers have to suffer, the gayva and elitism that exists in your circles...the discirmination that they do with sfardim...the mistreatment of other groups...and then after you will tell me how they cured all the ills they brought to the world...we will discuss about lubavitch...

kssiva vechassima tova,

avrohom

[Lev]

Avrohom,
Thank you for your wishes!
On a different post I wrote that I cannot argue with you about your closest to Judaism religion.
You speak of baaltshuvos.
In my community in the Southwest, Messianic Rabbi came 20 years ago.
Then, as well as now, he has ONE shomer Shabbos family and score of people who DRIVE to his temple on Shabbos.(Like Lazar and his oligarchks with their shiksas).
TEN years after Aguda-Lakewood "schnorrers" came in, and now they have scores black-hat-sheitel wearers(I don't think you have problem with that?)
So who the hell cares who was first?
As I told you, one(may be more) Russian Lubavitcher baaltshuvas became members of Neturei Karta, i.e. friends of Putin and Lukashenko.
Lehavdil, Rabbi Schah lived in the Jewish City of Bnei Brak, not in the dangerous DURING THE DAY "African-American" community.
He was nothing more then instructor(one of many) in Ponovezh Yeshiva, originally from the area not far from "City of Brotherly Love", as "shluhim" call forkakte(sorry) Smolensk village.
All major non-farbrengen Baal Tshuva Yeshvos(Someyah Ohr, "Aish") are Misnagdic in your parlance.(No other Chasidim use this word anymore-so much about your "ahavas yisroel").
I do not want to defend thouse yeshivos but the fact is that much more people became Orthodox through them...
Speaking of pictures, which one did you see: Lazar with Putin? with Patriarch Aleksi II?(hates Yoshka-killers more then you hate me), with Abramovich-Slutzker-Friedman?(Shiksa mistresses didn't get in the shot). Any other photo can be simply DOCTORED NOW, and you know this.
Yes, I am ashamed for Goldsmith--Lebel too, though I personally or any one I know have anything to do with that.
Do you know BTW that above were harassed 2 years ago by the Friend of Lazar's Friend Procurator General Ustinov for..."extremism" in Kitzur Shulhan Oruh?..I had answered all your libels against kollel "benchwarmers-schnorrers" already, so I won't repeat myself.
Finally, MO Rabbi and no schnorrer Stewart Weiss(whose son was killed from the weapons provided by Lazar-Assman countries) wrote in JP a critical evaluation about continious support of the ARTIFICIAL non-existant Jewish life in countries like Estonia wre EU goim killed everyone 65 years ago. What "present"? What "future"?
Speaking of "immorality", though I've spoken about this, ASK ABOUT LUBAVITCHER MAN NAMED SHAYA IN THE KIEV THEN ONLY SYNAGOGUE AND WHAt DID HE ASK GIRLS TO DO?
I knew a guy who heard it from the horse mouth.
The last one: I respect all Chasidus and did not DENIGRATE RABBI SCHNEERSON HIMSELF.
For me he was outspoken Rabbi of medium-size Synagogue in the former Jewish Neighbourhood. SOME of his followers...whatever Rest I will leave for Moderator Shmarya.
Avrohom, as my Ukrainian Jewish ancestors used to say, I wish you a git gebenche yuor!

[avrohom]

Lev,

I know that a lot of boys and avrechim become baaley tshuvos is russia by chabad. I see them in NY! I also know boys who go there for activities in yeshiva summer camps. They bring yiddishe neshomos back to avino shebashamayim!

IT's very good that instead of schnorring some of your friends actually do some good in smaller towns. May they influence the majority of the shjnorrers and the graves ill amongst charedi community that cause geneva gezela onooah and tzaar baaley chayim and sometimes retzicha etc to follow their ways...I would be very pleased that your friends would bring more baaley tshuva and shetels and kids who learn torah and keepmitzvoh and kinas sofrim tarbeh chochmoh may be the lubavitcher friends will learn from them...but in the meantime it's time for the lakewooders and the whole schnoor and enetitle ment mentality to learn from lubavitch...

"who cares who was first?"

you are right...as long as it is done... but there is an inyon in torah to be EMESSDIK as the owner of this sheketz blog has on his heading about"truth" and about being someone with integrity and there also be hakoras hatov for those who pioneered the idea of bringing torah and yiddishkeyt to every corner of the world.

NOw with regards to the Rabbi in Bney Brak: the fact that lived in such and such a city does not make him immune from being "harmful" and does not make him "Harmless" fellow. In fact he brought a lot of dissenssion and splits in different communitires. My point ios not to denigrate even him...but don't bring me this nonsense to make my Rebbe look bad.

Somehow your friends in the bney brak israeli world is noty so ashamed of R. Lebel as i saw an article about him around a year ago in hamodia or so praisinh him for his activities. (actually I saw a picture of R. Lazar together with him in a function in his yeshiva?).

YOu have answered my concrete concerns about the shnorrers and the culture of shhnorring as i know them personally. I know how some of the Roshey Yeshivos perpetuate the system knowing full well that the propsective yungerleyt have no parnossoh and have large families and who else will pick up the burden... the shver who will have to have an heart attack sooner or later...

It could be that Steven Wise's position is to be taken into consideration. In the meantime they are there for almost two decades and have success. One Jew is an olom moleh...they have saved many more than one...our torah teaches us how deed has the power to generate our redemption...

Lev, If you respect my Rebbe and watch your pen about him...i'll be silent at your other rants... but the moment you denigrate my rtebbe you have an earful about the schnorrers ganovim and gazlonim and rotzchim and destroyers of thousands of families....

and as long you respect my Rebbwe i'll give my sincere and heaty wishes for a gut gebencht your and as i learn today in maamor chassidus, that the Rebbe says: that in addition to our custom of writing (elul) kssiva vechassima tova leshono tova umssukoh we want to verbalize also that these blessings should materialize "betov hanireh vehanigleh"!

[Sarah]

How do you all feel about the Chabadniks in NYC and elsewhere taking money from crooked real estate developers and criminals for their yeshivas and Chabad centers? Is there anything in halacha about this? The R.C. Church used to gladly take Mafia money and drug money, and maybe still does, but should Jews do this? Aish used to promise anyone who sent a nice donation would receive a poster of the Kotel and those who did got a little postcard. Not exactly honesty in schnorring. After I gave a contribution to the Holocaust Museum in D.C. they gave my name and address to dozens of other groups and I was swamped with schnorring mail every single day. K'tiva V'chatima Tova.
Sarah

[Lev]

Dear Avrohom!
Let us FINISH this tit-for-tat not only with illuminating words of the late Rabbi Schneerson o"h but with following conclusion.
The Place where I was treated with respect, friendship and dignity as a Human Being, Jew, etc was not Crown Heights...but Lakewood.
Yes, It is NOT Ir HaTorah or Ir Hakoidesh, and, as you said, this blog-website is not a place to defend any strain of Orthodox Judaism, but I NEVER saw, heard, observed all the misery that you mentioned about the place on every post.
And again, "Aish" cult, that stole from you,whatever, put yarmulke on the head and Sherman "Stone" Chumash in the hands of the King of the real Evil Kingdom of Hollywood Iser Danielovich Kirk Douglas.
This clowns ARE, unfortunately, connected to Lakewood but they are not "Chief Rabbis".
Lebel is also a clown and...(its Elul) for being silent on the death of Litvinenko and Anna Politkovskaya.
And, unfortunately, SCHNORR IS EVERYWHERE.
Wishing yo the same best wishes as you did.

[avrohom]

ev HaYokor!,

In private life I play your side and i actually tell people (Sincerely) that they should respect all people and i personally hold that the Rabbis brought good to people. But, I also see how they brought disaster. In general i tell the critics to concentrate on the positive side.

NOw, you come with all your holy attitude (and i'm sure you mean well) and even if concede that you have a lot of points (and i personally agree with some of them -the major ones-) I beg you to offer the same respect that you want me to offer your rabbis. That is all i'm asking of you. I have not (at least tried) not to mention any particular names. All I was trying to point out to you: if you will not offer respect to my Rebbe who did so much good and was a tzadik and Gaon in learning and cared for every jew, I will point out to the misgivings of other leaders to show you (not tit for that per se) that even if in your perspective my REbbe did not live up to your ideals, you should still appreciate that the man lived a life torah and maassim tovim and avdus Hashem. You find problems in some of what he did, from your perspective, it does not give you the right to come off knocking the tzadik. IF you feel so, pause a second and see the problems caused by some of the people you respect .

(On this blog you could find someofthe problems that exist in these circles and the sameyou could find in other blogs that will tell you the real life problems that are unbelievable. These problems are not revealed to a guest. But they come up in making shiduchim, accepting kids to a school. You can even read many of these problems in mishpacha magazine and when you will be more involvedin the actual day to day life problems)

The problems are infinite and no solutions are sought. So beloshon chazal "tul koroh mibeyn enecho" and hizoher from talking bad about Tzadikim and MAnhigey Yisroel.

You somehow belittle in other writings of yours the sacrifice by lubavticher chassidim. IT is unbelievable I know many people who have first witness accounts to horros perpetrated to their immediate families (like for instance Reb Chonye MArozov who was taken by the nkvd in front of his children and perished in one of the prisons. Others were shot in front of their children. And they were arrested, exiled,and shot for belonging to the Shneerson group.

Anyway i am here to change your mind. As I am not here to change your mind about the number of baaley teshuva from the Russia andUkraine. You will not chanemy mindeither as I seemany of them in flesh and blood and have conversations with them. I know boys who go to russia in summer camps and pessach camps andarrangeforbris miloh for so many jewish boys and some of them are in yeshivos. All the crimes that you will raise (and as i said I do hear (And agrree with some) your concerns but do not deny to me that there are no baal teshuvas: I see them! talk to them!

But anyway i'm not interested to change your mind and you will not change my mind. But please do not denigrate and even disrespect my REbbe. Keepthe discussion on another level.

kssiva vechassima tova betov hanireh vehanigleh,

avrohom

[avrohom]

Lev Hayokor,

I meant to write: i am not HERE TO CHANGE YOUR MIND!

kssiva vechassima tova,

Avrohom