'Sanhedrin' Member: Israeli Police "Worse Than The Germans"

Hilltop Youth and a few haredi supporters rioted when police attempted to evacuate them from dwellings in the Hebron marketplace where the Hilltop Youth and supporters had been squatting illegally.

Watch this video of the evacuation. See the settlers wearing keffiyot to mask their faces. See the rocks in their hands. Note that the police use little force, have women officers evacuate women, and remain largely calm in the face of attacks with rocks and other weapons. Also note this from Hillel Weiss, a Bar Ilan professor and Sanhedrin member:

[Speaking to a police commander, as made clear in the video:] "May your mother be bereaved, your wife be widowed, your children be orphaned and may you be struck down in the next war and any memory of you be erased," Weiss said.

"The [Israeli] policemen are worse than the Germans. You don't expect anything from Germans, but the policemen here lost all trace of humanity and are capable of anything.

Weiss made this statement unmolested, both to the police commander and later, when he repeated it for Ynet, on video, a few feet from the evacuation. The Germans would have simply shot him dead. The Israeli police allowed him to speak, did not molest him and did not arrest him.

Weiss and other members of the so-called Sanhedrin have made similar hatelful statements in the past. To my knowledge, the Sanhedrin's president, Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz, has never distanced himself or the Samhedrin from these specific remarks.

The first two people removed from the dwelling at the beginning of the video appear to be haredim; the second may be a  Chabadnik.

[Hat Tip: Joe B.]

Comments

[Anon]

You are now going to attribute the actions of the Hilltop Youth to haredim because you may have seen one or two people who look like haredim in the video. You are out of your mind. What next? You going to blame the holacaust on haredim? WWII? WWI? The crusades?

[Alex]

so much for viahavtah lirayaCHa kamoCHa.

Were those religious Jews or Hamas in the video? one can hardly tell.

[PishPosh]

Actually they are fortunate as the Germans would have machined gunned em all and been home in time for brunch. These lame comparisons are getting tiresome.

[Dave]

As a religious Jew I am outraged. We should know better.

[Anony]

Absolutely despicable. May THAT man's memory be erased.

What a blight on all Jews.

[Michelle]

Hevron is Jewish Land! Has been always. Always will be. Pick up a Torah, for G-d's sake, and look!

These are Jews LEGALLY on their own land--that is not disputed by the government at all. The government wants them out because they didn't "coordinate" with the IDF when they returned.

This is part of an effort to distance religious Jews from the land of our people by those who hate religion. Why else would they destroy the synagogue???

[Hugh]

What an ugly religion Judaism is. It's just as false and self-serving and nonsensical as its bastard offspring, Christianity and Islam. No mention of the Palestinians suffering under the cruel occupation. Typical. But hey, God gave the Jews this land, so it must be okay.

[Neo-Conservaguy]

The police showed far more restraint than those people deserved. Perhaps a knock upside the head from the man he cursed would have taught Hillel Weiss a lesson in manners. These people make Jews everywhere look bad.

[Eliezer]

In general I would describe the Israeli police force as being incompetant and brutal. This is an opinion held by many individuals in Israel both religious and non religious. The following joke about the Israeli police force describes the general feeling here.

Someone goes to take the test to be an Israeli policeman. There is one question. How much is 5 + 5? After thinking about it for 45 minutes he puts down 12. When he goes home he tells his wife and she yells at him that he is wrong and now they will starve because he won't get the job! A few weeks later he gets a call that he is hired. As he is putting on his uniform he asks why he was hired since his answer was wrong. He was told that his answer was the closest!

As a note may I add that in the First Lebanese war my Artillary unit was attached to the military police unit that was serving in the area of the Port of Sidon in Southern Lebanon.

[avrohom]

Neo,

Don't worry about who makes jews "look bad". You guys who mock jews who defend legally owned land BEING EXPELLED FROMTHEIR HOMES and you would go bezerk ifit would be done to inner cities homeless the way it was done in amona.

Morever, youguys embarass the hole jewishpeple when you haveno mercyon those bein expelled and you havenotshownyourmercy when the cops acted with the most vile and sadistic ways when they expelled the jewsof amona...you guys who did not show any empathy to those jwws at the very least, show that you have got nothing to do with jews and you actually are the one who make jews look bad.

[Neo-Conservaguy]

Eliezer, your opinion certainly can't be based upon that the video clearly shows. The police acted beyond professionally and with far more tolerance that was deserved by those attacking them. Which side was throwing the rocks and cursing?

avrohom, aside from your continued sad attempt to rewrite the history of 'aza - a place that was always considered bachuts halachicly - your position that the police were responsible for the violence in either 'aza or Hebron goes against reality as clearly seen in video evidence. You are denying the reality of the violence planned and carried out by those who would dare attack the legal arm of the government of Israel. They are, simply put, criminals by both secular and religious law.

[Ariel Sokolovsky]

B"H
The current government system in Israel derives it's legitimacy according to Torah law solely from the fact that it is meant to provide security.
When it throws Jews from their land it loses all legitimacy and must be replaced by any means.
Hopefully soon these 30 heroes http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-08-06-israel-battalion-rebellion_N.htm
will be joined by others removing the ability of this evil government to continue placing our people in danger.

[Eliezer]

My opinion, which I believe is shared by the majority of Israelis, is not based on one or two incidents but dozens and hundreds of incidents which have taken place over many years. I am not just talking about ploice action against the right or settlers. The Zeiler commisssion, which was investigating corruption in the Negev police district, made the following statement. " Current police activities more closely resemble those of the Mafia than a professional police force". This statement was made by Judge Zeiler the head of the commission. I once had my home broken into and called the police. A neighbor told me that it was no use. Either the police are incompetent or they are taking bribes. As a result of the Zeiler commission the polce chief resigned. The head of police investigations division was removed from his position due to his undertaking wire tapping against politicians without a court order. He also kept those recordings which were leaked to the press despite orders to destroy all illegal wire tapping recordings. In order to clean things up and get a professional police force the entire upper echelon of the police force must be fired.

[Eliezer]

Just to finalize my comments. The majority of policemen are probably OK. Perhaps they are not the most competent but they try to do their jobs. A large minority, however, are violent and corrupt and would not hesitate bringing their batons down on your soft head! They could not care less if it is appropriate or not. This is particularly true for the riot police and those on horses. They will simply run you over and then lie that you attacked them. Actions of this type have been captured on Video but it is very very difficult to bring these individuals to justice. This is particularly true because the upper escelons of the police force are mostly corrupt. Take for example the case of an individual who thought that Sharon would appoint him as police chief if he told Sharon that he would make sure that the case against him was closed. This was confirmed by a member of the Likud central committee who said he was present at a meeting that took place between this individual and Omri Sharon. For some strange reason no action is being takin in this case. One final comment. The State Auditor published the following about the unit that is supposed to investigate complaints about the police.

50% of all cases were never investigated and simply closed.

47% were investigated and closed without action.

3% resulted in some sort of action in most cases very minor action.

I may not be a statistician but I agree with the State Auditor that the above statistics are a bit suspicious.

[Yisroel]

To: Huge

The Nazis that killed millions of people, the soviets, Saddam Hussein, and many others, were not religious people.

[Shalom]

If you haven't seen the videos of what occurred when amona was evacuated, its something you have to see.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3849046935689116101&q=amona&total=80&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=4

There are many others. Just search the word "amona" in google video. THe video posted by shmarya above has to be taken in context to what the police have been doing to settlers recently. I'm not advocating cursing fellow jews, but these people's anger is in large part because of the actions of the police.

[Shmarya]

I'm not advocating cursing fellow jews, but these people's anger is in large part because of the actions of the police.

Gaza preceded Amona, if you recall. That's Gaza as in pouring chemicals and flammable liquids on police; throwing rocks at police; setlers armed with 20 lb stone, iron bars, and clubs; throwing sand and chemicals in the eyes of police and the army; and much, much more.

Funny how you start your 'history' immediately after massive settle violence.

[Shalom]

How many police had to go to the hospital with serious injuries because of gaza settlers? How many israelis had to go to the hospital after amona. THe police have been acting with excessive force, and there is no justification for it.

[Shmarya]

And?

You conveniently left out the violence from settlers that immediately preceded Amona. Police were hurt evacuating Gaza and you know it.

No one is justifying police brutality. But to listen to dishonest disingenuous people like you one would think the problem lies solely with the police. Nothing could be further from the truth.

[Shalom]

I am not justifying settler violence, or the cursing of non jews, and you are assuming things I never said. I am merely responding to the comments above, and saying that settlers may be violent, but the police have shown themselves to lack restraint even at the risk of settler's lives. The acts of violence perpetrated by the police have been much more brutal and violent than those done by the settlers.

[Shalom]

I meant to write "the cursing of jews," although I am equally against the cursing of non jews (except for the hitlers and stallins ofcourse).

[David]

This whole "worse than the Germans" thing has really got to stop. These days, it seems like the Germans are the measuring stick for all evil in the world, and everybody who has a disagreement with someone else whips out the measuring stick, and pronounces his opponent equal to Hitler. Aside from being grossly offensive and completely misguided, it shows a rather tragic lack of imagination.

As to the police, the settlers should be intelligent enough to figure out that the police are not their problem, the law is. In a democracy, you have every right to fight the law through the appropriate methods, but fighting the police is a pointless (and dangerous) activity.

[avrohom]

neo,

You seem not understand whatpeople saytoyou. The police acted in amona in a brutal nd sadistic way equal to enemies cracking down their opposing enemies.

Whether not gaza was "bachuts" of halachik eretz yisroel, the fact hasproven taht it was bifnim security wise. There were no kassam shmassams in the times gush katif was up. Ashkelon andSderot were SAFE! You guys with passionate hatred for ERetsYisroel and those who defend as JEWISH STATE FROM G-D cannot stand anyone who stands in the name Hashem and Torah and ERets yisrael givenn by the torah therefore you reqrite history.

Scotty, now you are justifying amona brutal attac on jews. imaigine one would such rationalziatios with ethiopians you would go all over the place.

Scotty insteadf puttingyour eneegy in badmouthing settlers do teshuva for your lauding their expulsion and do something toprevent further withdrwals and more hamastan driected at tel aviv.

[moschiach moschiach moschiach, oy oy oy va-voy!]

kishmoy ken lo hu (ovruhum)!
i am looking forvert for the time reb olmert
(yarum hoydoy) will agree with abu mazen
on a palestinian state in the west bank la-afuqei chevron.
we will then see your heroes "de mi culo"
under palestinian soverainty getting what they deserve.

[David]

Hugh--

The suffering of the Palestinian people is, like most of their problems, largely of their own creation. It is certainly not a function of Judaism, and your nasty slur is way out of line.

The Palestinians have had multiple opportunities to live in a peaceful state alongside Israel; they have rejected all of these opportunities in favor of violence. If the Israelis remain on a war footing (albeit a very restrained one) in their dealings with the Palestinians, this is entirely a function of the Palestinians' poor decisions and corrupt and evil leadership.

[moschiach moschiach moschiach, oy oy oy va-voy!]

David is very clever.
the 150,000 wicked arabs man women and children, had their chance to live in peace.
They had their chance! Thhheyyyy blew it!They are now fair game to the weisses (ill reputed hillel), (arur hy'd) goldsteins, the Draculas Levinger and other likeminded idiots.

"The Palestinians have had multiple opportunities to live in a peaceful state "
Do you heaaar me? Do you heeeear me?
They had, they had. They are fair game. Just like the tutsis, they could have escaped. but did they? noooooooo. They were fair game too. It's all their own creation OK? don't come running now to David! You, blew it! OK????

[Truth]

Very interesting approach, Scott, I wouldn't have figured you for a lackey yes-man of fascism...

What do we have here:

The citizens own the property (no legal argument about this whatsoever, they own this undisputably); not to mention the rest of that 'arab market' being owned by Jews for at least hundreds of years (only 'abandoned' due to the murderous enemy pogroms of 1929).

The citizens agreed to leave the last time, per agreement with the regime that they would be 'permitted' to return shortly.

The regime reneged (as usual), or was merely lying (as usual).

Therefore, the citizens re-occupied their property.

No matter how the uniformed running dogs of the regime acted this time, they have no justification (morally or legally) for their removing the owners from their property.

ANY resistance is justified (and mandatory).

The regime and its operational organs have gotten a 'free-pass' for far too long in all areas (except, interestingly enough, when it comes to dealing with our murderous foes).

I'm suprised (but not very) at how supportive such 'pursuers of justice and liberty' are of such a corrupt, oppressive, illegal regime.

It's quite a specatcle watching the worshiping at the altar of 'rule-of-law' by clowns such as this blog owner; said 'law' being made for and by the fetid clique of political whores from the brothel on the hill (ie, Knesset).

Resistance is NOT futile - it's the only thing that will save the victims of the regime (and not only the patriotic pioneers, either - there are plenty of victims of the regime's organs in circumstances completely removed from issues of returning to liberated areas of Israel).

Truth.

[Anon]

Shmarya, I believe the reports of people pouring chemicals and flammable liquids on police (accusations made by the police and quickly used by higher ups in sound bites they gave to the media) have been discredited by subsequent investigation and the police now admit that this did not occur.

[Anon]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7588638402237205985&q=amona&total=81&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

[Shmarya]

I believe the reports of people pouring chemicals and flammable liquids on police (accusations made by the police and quickly used by higher ups in sound bites they gave to the media) have been discredited by subsequent investigation and the police now admit that this did not occur.

I saw and published pictures and videos of settlers pouring liquids on police. Some of that liquid was oil meant to cause then to fall off ladders. Some of it was reported as chemicals by media there at that moment.

And the rocks, iron bars, pipes, etc.? All captured in pictures and on video.

[moschiach moschiach moschiach, oy oy oy va-voy!]

all this talk of freedom of speech and fascist police, is deceiptful nonsense.
one has to be able to ditinguish between a rat and a person when one sees them. these violent guys are themselves. free speech and democracy? with the wrong guys claimouring for democracy, they got the 3rd reich und hitler imech shmeuy in germany.
what civil liberties? those of arur goldsein, zadeh, popper?

[Alex]

the most disgusting thing is a religious jew that would call Israel undemocratic, referring to the post above mine.

[Anon]

--And the rocks, iron bars, pipes, etc.? All captured in pictures and on video.--

I won't try to defend violence on either side. They are both wrong. Though personally I find the violence by the police to be more dispicable for a number of reasons. They are there two protect and are supposed to be trained to deal with these situations with resorting to excessive violence. Also, while I don't support the settlers' use of violence they were being thrown out of their homes so I can understand the emotional aspect of it.

[Shmarya]

Yes, but in Gaza there was little police violence and a lot of settler violence. The police took a lot of abuse and retaliated at Amona.

The retaliation is not correct but it must be understood in context.

[Neo-Conservaguy]

"You seem not understand whatpeople saytoyou. The police acted in amona in a brutal nd sadistic way equal to enemies cracking down their opposing enemies."

I generally understand well. Understanding is not the same as agreeing. In this case, you invoke the violence in Amona as if it occurred in a vacuum; it did not, it occurred within a context of massive settler violence against the LEGAL representatives of the State.

"Whether not gaza was "bachuts" of halachik eretz yisroel, the fact hasproven taht it was bifnim security wise. There were no kassam shmassams in the times gush katif was up. Ashkelon andSderot were SAFE! You guys with passionate hatred for ERetsYisroel and those who defend as JEWISH STATE FROM G-D cannot stand anyone who stands in the name Hashem and Torah and ERets yisrael givenn by the torah therefore you reqrite history."

A proper analysis of whether the military support of the 'aza Jewish residents was correct would have to include an understanding of the amount of personnel and equipment involved. By all accounts, it was significant. The question then becomes, what is the most effective deployment of those resources? You believe it was in 'aza; the military professionals, who have a lifetime more experience than you do in these matters, believed otherwise.

As for your claim of my hatred for Israel: go screw yourself.

[rebeljew]

In Hevron, there can be no doubt that the settlers have better claims than in Gaza or anywhere else. I do not necessarily oppose some level of resistance on the part of the settlers, as the government wants to assert manifest authority and the reidence are not allowing it. The government needs to negotiate with the settlers, rather than thinking that there is a military solution (just as they preach with the Palestinians).

That said, the settlers cannot go over the line from resistance to rebellion. Israel has a full legal system and a public forum for redress of grievances. They are right to make the most of those forums but not to harm the police in the line of duty. Ultimately, it will be public outcry, not fighting that will force the government to do what is right.

Also, these silly, bombastic comparisons with the Nazis do much to undermine the gains that could be made with the Israeli center. The Israeli police are NOTHING like the Nazis, lo bei v'lo miktzasei, and the comparison is repulsive and fanatical! This is a discourse in a democratic, transparent, civilized country, run by the rule of law. (Even though it is Israel, and civility is relative, it is still not fascism.)

This law must be changed and challenged in the most stringent ways that public activism will permit. Israelis with full legal rights to property in Hevron must have those rights protected by the government. However, until they herd the settlers into gas chambers, let's leave the "Nazi" card in the deck.

[avrohom]

Neo,

So if did not happen in a vaccuum, we have a justification for them acting in the bestial way inj which they did! Is that your position?

[Anon]

"As for your claim of my hatred for Israel: go screw yourself."

Isn't that kind of difficult?

[Anon]

"Yes, but in Gaza there was little police violence and a lot of settler violence. The police took a lot of abuse and retaliated at Amona.

The retaliation is not correct but it must be understood in context."

I can never excuse what happened in Amona based on violence in Gaza. What was done was despicable.

Most of the Gaza withdrawal involved resistence, not violence. Personally, I had ambivalent feeling about the withdrawal from Gaza. I think it was an appropriate thing to do if it could further peace, but I was somewhat skeptical about whether it would have that effect. While there certainly was some violence in Gaza, for the most part the way the withdrawal occured made me proud to be a jew. Some resisted more and some less, and yes some certainly crossed the line, but seeing pictures of residents and soldiers sent to evict them praying and crying together is amazing. It was an event that brought out the best and the worst from people on all sides, right and left, haredi and hilonim, etc. Unfortunately, I think most people seek to focus on the worst but not the best.

[Alex]

Avrohom- DUDE, GET A NEW SLOGAN ALREADY,

oh and btw, your fellow co-religionists don't even want a state of Israel to exist, so instead of harrassing other people on this forum about "lauding the expulsion of 9,000 jews," go harrass your fellow ultra-religious jews who think that Israel should not even exist.

[The Beadle]

For what’s it worth, I am not sure why people cannot be bitterly opposed to what is happening to the Jews in Hevron, without agreeing with that which the professor has said.

It would appear that for most people it has to be one or the other.

Oy meh hayah lanu.

[Walt Disney]

Wow - you have a video, now we have a complete God's-eye view of the *entire* story. What century is this? I know you used to be a haredi, but how can you be so media-illiterate and naive to think that if there was any police violence it would have *had* to have shown up on that video clip?

Also:

"Gaza preceded Amona, if you recall. That's Gaza as in pouring chemicals and flammable liquids on police; throwing rocks at police; setlers armed with 20 lb stone, iron bars, and clubs; throwing sand and chemicals in the eyes of police and the army; and much, much more."

Funny how you start your 'history' with a description of what 00.1% of the settlers were doing 00.1% of the time during the evacuation of the Gaza Strip. If you look into the latter dvelopment of accusations about the use of "chemicals" in the most extreme encounter between police and demostrators, you will discover that the whole thing basically unravels.

I am not a fan of anti-police vionece by demostrators,however, before you blow your stack you should consider the actual cultural norms that regulate the behavior of demonstrators in contemporary liberal societies. Here is a point for comparison: think of how wonderfully liberal minded anti-globalization demonstrators behave when the G-8 comes to meet in a Western capital. That should serve as your yardstick of what is considered acceptable political violence in modern democracies.

Here is another thing to consider: the Israeli government does not pursue a policy of destroying mosques in Um El Fahm; it does not destroy kibbutzim in the Galil; it does not turn the inhabitants of Herzalia into refugees. The settlers are the only people who have had to endure such trials, and given the circumstances, they have endured them with remarkable cool-headedness. (Please don't tell me lies about the only people in Gush Katif who got screwed were the ones who refused to leave - I was there helping people pack up, and believe me EVERYONE was screwed. Also don't tell me lies about the people in Gush Katif being horrible criminals who set up illegal settlements - the Israeli government created Gush Katif and held campaings to convince people to move there)

Here is my general impression of what's happening here: you are one of those people who have no living connection with the reality you love to complain about. You have been bamboozled by the Israeli press, whose coverage of settler activities is shaped by a consciously anti-settler agenda (for instance: 1)Before the disengagement, Israeli newspapers would regularly carry front page headlines describing extreme worst-case scenarios of what some police planning unit thought that settlers might possibly do - none of which, of course, ever really happened;2) the admitted self-censorship of Israeli journalists who refused to publish anything critical of Sharon in order to make sure he survived as Prime Minister long enough to carry out the disengagement 3)Israeli newspapers will devote more space to a pro-settler school girl who writes nasty graffiti about an Israeli politician than they will to the most horrific rapes and murders, etc. etc.)

The Israeli press, especially online newssites also love to publish any anti-settler material they can get theri hands on becuase they know it will generate a lot of talkbacks, which they can then take to their advertisers as proof that people of the site's popularity and the carefulnes with which it is read.

What's with you? You are so critical and skeptical about anything a religious person says, but no one ever taught you not to believe everything you read in the newspapers, even if what you read is anti-religious?

[Shmarya]

Funny how you start your 'history' with a description of what 00.1% of
the settlers were doing 00.1% of the time during the evacuation of the
Gaza Strip.

More like 10% hard core violence and 80% supporting and helping the 10% who were violent.

What's with you? You are so critical and skeptical about anything a religious person says, but no one ever taught you not to believe everything you read in the newspapers, even if what you read is anti-religious?

Actually, I did media monitoring before it was a cause celebre.

The point here is that, in an age of easily obtained video footage and blogging, there is no footage of violent police at the Hebron evacuation.

There is, however, footage of violent settlers.

[Yoni]

Prof. Weiss's comments are an outrage, but that's his intent. Inflamatory guy. The left had Yeshayahu Leibovitz (who dubbed IDF soldiers "Judeo-Nazis"), the right has Weiss, big deal.
I served in Golani with one of Weiss's sons, nicest and gentlest guy you can imagine. Buy the way, Shmarya, where did you serve?

[Walt Disney]

"More like 10% hard core violence and 80% supporting and helping the 10% who were violent."

I think I can speak for everyone who lives in Israel and has any first-hand knowledge of what happened during the disengagement when I say: thank you for this. Now we know what you are up to.
How misinformed are you? You are like someone in Israel writing that it is an everyday occurence in the USA for people to commit mass murder on university campuses. You have simply proven that you have no idea what you are talking about.

[joe b.]

Yoni's challenge
"Prof. Weiss's comments are an outrage, but that's his intent."

oooptheeeee, i fergot, then it must be alright to wish the mother of the officer to become berieved, his wife a widow, his children orphans etc... very inspiring talk of machshevet yisroel coming out of his butt straight to like minded people with their brains in their colons!

"Inflamatory guy."
Yoni has no reason to blame him! that's the way he is. Different strokes for different folks. The guy is into fireworks.

"The left had Yeshayahu Leibovitz (who dubbed IDF soldiers "Judeo-Nazis"),.....soooo, what?"
Don't blame Yoni,
a-he was too young to protest Prof Leibovitz's z'l -and looks like still too young mentally.
b-he still cannot distinguish between an expletive and series of deliberate curses and death wishes on a public servant. Was it in Taanit that it said: Im Daat Ayin, Havdala Me-Ayin?

"I served in Golani with one of Weiss's sons, nicest and gentlest guy you can imagine."
If we are into anal complex talk, let me fart in homage to your 'service', Yoni.
Weiss's son gets all my sympathy, probably an abused kid by an abusive father. My sympathy goes also to his wife if she is still alive; as the Weiss is on record of being abusive to women as well.
"Buy the way,....did you serve?"
I don't know of anybody 'buying their way' no?

[Shmarya]

I do know what I'm talking about. You have a fantasy that is not backed up by facts.

9000 Jews were expelled from Gaza, correct?

Take all children below the age of 15 out of the picture and you have about 5000.

Remove the senior citizens, the sick and infirm. You're down to 4000 (probably less).

1% of 4000 is 40. Are you really claiming there were only 40 protesters involved in violence?

There were far more than that.

[Yoni]

Well, well, we got a new hero in Joe B. Ladies & Gents - I offer you Buttman! Very concerned with your intestinal activity, are you? Save it for someone else...
I could care less where you live, but here in Israel we still have free speach, and cursing someone (as opposed to inciting to violence), albeit a high-ranking army officer, falls squarely under that right. Go on trying to draw spurious distinctions between Weiss and Leibovitz, you're not convincing anyone... Weiss said what he said, a minority agree with his sentiments, the majority doesn't, who cares, it's just words. Weiss is a brilliant literary scholar and a talmid chacham, and a zero like you is not worthy of licking the soles of his shoe. So he's a kanai, so f-ing what? Big deal...

[Walt Disney]

At first some people might have thought that we were just exchanging rhetorically invented statistics with each other, but once again you insist on flaunting your ignorance - this time by basing your calculations on the number of people who actually lived in Gush Katif.

Here's the news: During the disengagment, Gush Katif was completely flooded with protestors from other places in Israel.

You really don't have a clue, do you? Do you know any religious people in Israel?

[Anon]

--Here's the news: During the disengagment, Gush Katif was completely flooded with protestors from other places in Israel.--

Must agree with Walt on this one. Estimates of the number of protestors from outside Gaza that managed to get into Gush Katif to resist the withdrawal range from a couple of hundred to a couple of thousand. More than enough to make some noise.

[WalkingAlongTheShore]

What Weiss said was despicable - both the "worse than the Germans" comment and his curse (which basically said that he wished the policeman would die - that' no way for a "Rabbi" to speak).

That said, the land property in question in Hevron is Jewish-owned. It is legally theirs. The only reason the government is evicting them is because they are tired of having to protect a handful of Jews surrounded by Arabs who don't want them there. So, it comes down to this: does the Israeli government support the right of Jews to live in Hevron or not? It appears from this action that they do not. However, that does not change the fact that the property is Jewish-owned, and therefore, the Jews have a right to stay there if they so choose.

Whether or not one believes in the Bible, Hevron was inhabited by Israelites/Hebrews/Jews for centuries, if not millenia. Jewish habitation there only ceased if they were expelled.

For thoses that are religious, Hevron is the second-holiest city in Judaism. Jewish sovreingty over Jerusalem is under fire, and mere Jewish habitation (forget control) in Hevron is also under fire. Meanwhile, Islam's first and second holiest cities are firmly in Muslim control in Saudi Arabia, and their supposed third-holiest site (the Temple Mount) is also basically under their control, and Hevron and the Machpela is also mostly under Muslim control.

Islam, like Christianity, preaches that Judaism has be defeated and superceded. Things like this - whether done ostensibly to promote "peace" or to limit the government's involvement in disputed areas or take pressure off of the IDF - in the end does nothing to refute the Muslim (and Christian) claims, and just encourages the image of Judaism defeated and inferior to Islam (and Christianity). So, in the case of Hevron, to those Muslims motivated by religion, it shows them that THEY are standing by and defending their father Ibhrahim, while the Jews and the Jewish State don't really care about their father Avraham.

Do "settler" kids throw rocks and water balloons at "observers"? I think so. Do "settlers" yell at Arabs in Hevron? Yes. Are they deeply suspicious of Arabs and do they have anger toward them? I think so. However, under the conditions that they live in, do the Jews in Hevron live anything resembling a normal life? They are a handful of Jews surrounded by Arabs in a town where on more than one occasion, Jews have been murdered by Arabs. They see Arabs living in houses that belonged to Jews as recently as 1929 - houses that were taken when the Jews were driven out in a Shabbat-day pogrom that left many Jews dead. They see the Israeli government view them as liabilities, a drain on resources. And they know that IDF soldiers risk their lives to protect them (and understandably, many of those soliders probably resent having to do so). Is this anything like a normal existence?

So, given all of that, does it really come as any surprise that the Jews of Hevron would react this way when evicted from their homes - yet again?

[Shmarya]

Here's the news: During the disengagment, Gush Katif was completely flooded with protestors from other places in Israel.

Most of the violent protesters were still settlers – some from Gaza and some from the West Bank.

You really don't have a clue, do you? Do you know any religious people in Israel?

Oodles and oodles.

[joe b.]

yoni in hindu- (the pri-k) says:
"so f-ing what?"
f-ing
אמא שלך בראש חוצות על הרי הגלבוע
בתחתוני "עבודתה" בלויי הסחבות
ולפני שנעזוב מדוע שלא תצפה את ראשך ואת ראש "אותה נבלה וייס" בשמן מנוע ותכניס את עצמך
ואותו ויתר חבר מרעיך הנקלים והנבזים
לישבן אתון בלעם הצדקת

[Yoni]

Hey Buttman Joe B., you sure do an anal fixation.... just make sure to wipe well...
צואה נוזלת על פניך...

[Anon]

--Most of the violent protesters were still settlers – some from Gaza and some from the West Bank.--

Once you combine the West Bank settlers it is consistent with the less than 1% figures noted earlier.

[joe b.]

oooptheeee, yoni, i fevgat again to bless you:
יהיו-ימיך מעטים; פקדתך, יקח אחר.
יהיו-בניך יתומים; ואשתך, אלמנה.
ונוע ינועו בניך ושאלו; ודרשו, מחרבותיהם.
ינקש נושה, לכל-אשר-לך; ויבזו זרים יגיעך.
אל-יהי-לך, משך חסד; ואל-יהי חונן, ליתומיך.
יהי-אחריתך להכרית; בדור אחר, ימח שמך.
יזכר, עון אבותיך--וחטאת אמך, אל-תמח.
ויכרת מארץ זכרך.
ותאהב קללה, ותבואך ולא תחפץ בברכה, ותרחק ממך.
ותלבש קללה כמדיך: ותבא כמים בקרבך; וכשמן, בעצמותיך.
תהי לך כבגד תעטה; ולמזח, תמיד תחגרנה.
כן יאבדו כל אויביך השם ואוהביו מחיילי צהל הנאמנים כצאת השמש בגבורתו
תפול עליך אימתה ופחד
PS:
(if you don't have yet a wife and children, may the curses hit your future wife and children)

[Shmarya]

Cut it out, both of you!

Argue politely. please.

[Yochanan Lavie]

It's about time you enforced civility, Shmarya my friend.