Rabbi Ovadia Yosef: Israeli Soldiers Die In Battle Because They Are Not Orthodox

Rabbi Ovadia Yosef speaks:

“It is no wonder that soldiers are killed in war; they don’t observe Shabbat, don’t observe the Torah, don’t pray every day, don’t lay phylacteries on a daily basis – so is it any wonder that they are killed? No, it’s not.

“God have mercy on them (soldiers) and make them become newly religious – then they will all live a good life in peace,” Rabbi Ovadia said.…“[W]hen soldiers believe and pray, God helps them during the war. (These soldiers) don’t get killed.”…

This is perhaps the most obscene statement I have ever seen by a Jewish religious leader.

[Hat Tip: The Beadle.]

Comments

[Avı]

Thıs man clearly has the mentality of a 5 year old.

[J]

Wow! A Jewish Pat Robertson!

[nobody]

Rabbi Ovadia is always talking nonsense. Tell me when did he say something smart?

[Arnold]

Unfortunately "Haham Ovadiya" does this a lot. I ask this question...isn't he the "advisor" to the shas party and if so do these statements surprise you. As far as corruption in world polotics, I don't know if many compete with Shas and what makes it worse is they are supposed to stand for something.

[Arnold]

sorry-politics...I feel like I should be posting on the yeshiva world website....

[Phillip]

Then he or his children should join the
army. THey can test this belief out
by walking into Gaza.

[Abe]

Ovadia Yosef is a deluded asshole and can't help himself. He's a product of his aberrant religion.
However, where are all the "rational" rabbis? I haven't read any of them disassociate themselves from or denounce this idiot that speaks in their name.

[Nachman]

א פרענק איז א קרענק.
A while ago you were on my case for disliking FRENKS.
Alas! You just provided fuel for my fire...
They are hot headed and controlled strictly by emotions. Third world mentality is another issue. Here's a fine example...
I do not dislike people, I loathe their behavior. Sefaradim/Yemenites who 'westernized' have shown great improvement.
The back woods mentality is what gets me going.

[LubabNoMore]

This kind of statement is typical for someone with an orthodox mindset. What would be truly interesting (albiet a bit morbid) is if data was collected on the religious practices of soliders who died in combat. I'm guessing you'll find a random distribution but the results could be very interesting.

[Yos]

How can someone be so well versed and yet so dense? You would think a religious leader would have a better command of common sense. I suppose Mizada fell the day after all the zealots hiding out therein turned Buddhist.

Couldn't he have just said, wow, you know what would be great? If Israeli soldiers became more observant.

[Anon]

Bearing in mind that this is an English translation (and perhap even a rough translation) did anyone see or hear his actual statement? He could have said (i) that their death were devine retribution or (ii) he could have said that if more soldiers were observant and they prayed to God that God would have granted them greater protection and many losses of life could have been avoided. The second version does not sound objectionable at all. In fact, I would venture to say that anyone who is even partially religious believes in God and the power of prayer would say the same thing.

[Shmarya]

It is reported exactly the way Ynet does in three sources, including IMRA. So it appears what Rav Ovadia said is as reported.

[Lev]

Dear Avrohom!
I am sorry but you have been proven right.
Front page of this blog looks like denouncement of the practices of Rubashkin and Putin-Lazar-Oligarchks.
But I checked the archives,only from December 2006:Neturei Karta in Iran and Kolko arrest.
And I found out that unfortunately in the every case of the conflict between "hareidim" and someone else Moderator Shmarya or Scotty, whatever, takes the side of that "someone else", no matter where the truth lays.
I don't know about you but I am getting out.
Sorry, if anything...
Ksiva vehasima toiva.
P.S. I hope you respect all Hasidim and Rebbes, especially thouse who told "to go to work".
They had been Rabbis Hershkovitz, Stern, Menashe Klein and Chatzkel Roth.
Their Beis Din 20 years ago would STOP Kolko's crimes and Margulises(supports lifetime in the kollel and deals EXCLUSIVELY with wealthy) cover-up or worse(office with private bathroom...)
What can I say? You win.

[Dr Fred]

Anon:Prayer is not a quid pro quo nor are Tephilin amulets.We pray and observe so that we, hopefully may understand that , by doing so,we bind ourselves to the Divine system of thought and deed and fulfill our purpose in this life.To think otherwise is but a whiff of idolatry.

[Fleishike Kishke]

This is fantastic. The rabbi made a statement that can be scientifically tested.
"Observant soldiers in COMBAT units don't die in battle."
Does this pan out or not? If so, if a frum soldier HAS NEVER, died in battle, he's correct. If not, if EVEN ONE frum soldier had ever died in battle, this like all other statements issuing forth from his pie hole, are meaningless.
Perhaps the evidence will show that there is a correlation between frum-ness and lower fatality rates among soldiers in combat units, but then you have to explain why those frummies were killed. Did Adoynoy fuck up so to speak? Was the Lord of Hosts taking a crap and dropped the ball?
Maybe those that survive are frum, but also carry a photo of the Lubavitcher Rebbe into battle.

[Moshe]

Anon:
Your brain is from the 10th century (BCE, that is).

[ShmorgelBorgel]

Fleishike Kishke said...
"This is fantastic. The rabbi made a statement that can be scientifically tested.
"Observant soldiers in COMBAT units don't die in battle."
Does this pan out or not? If so, if a frum soldier HAS NEVER, died in battle, he's correct. If not, if EVEN ONE frum soldier had ever died in battle, this like all other statements issuing forth from his pie hole, are meaningless. "

I am sure Hakham Ovadia has a ready, canned answer when confronted with the evidence of religious soldiers killed in battle-he would just say... well "kol yisrael areivim zeh le zeh" and the presence of frei soldiers in the IDF endangers the religious soldiers. It's the same logic that some of my haredi teachers used to explain the theodicy of the Shoah.--to whit--"the Holocaust happened because of Reform Judaism (or some blame Zionism, assimilation, secularism), etc...God was punishing the Jews! Is it any wonder that Nazism started in Germany, the same country where Reform originated?" And then the students would ask..."But rebbe, what about all the frum yidden who perished too?" and the answer, would be "nu...kol yisrael areivim zeh le zeh, the sinners brought the ason on all the religious Jews" . Unassailable logic from their POV.

[Isa]

Some how I remember something about an observant tank unit that took horrific losses in the Yom Kipper war

[yisroel]

If you are going to condemn Ovadia Yosef, you should also condemn Al Gore, for claiming that we are causing global worming, and destroying the world.

[Shmarya]

Al Gore is reacting to scientific data that shows global warming and its causes.

One my argue that the data is insufficient or that China is a far greater threat to the environment than we are.

But in now way is this a comperaple situation to Rabbi Yosef's evil words.

[Yisroel]

Last week in New York it was 59 degrees. You call that global warming?
Obviously what Al Gore is saying, is bogus.

[Shmarya]

1. This is not a discussion of global warming.

2. Global Warming does not mean no cold days. It means a higher OVERALL temperature.

[Yisroel]

Shmarya,
Are you saying that if the globe gets hot, that is the fault of human beings?

[David]

You can't have your cake and eat it too, which is what "enlightened" or "modern" orthodox people try to do. Yosef merely follows the tradition of chazal and the prophets of saying that if you do x that is against the Torah you will be punished, and that if bad happened it is because of disobedience.

Either you accept that today too (as Yosef does), or you reject and abhor it today and for their time period (as I and many secular/atheist Jews do). However, accepting it for the past and condemning Yosef in the present is just too rich.

[Shmarya]

Are you saying that if the globe gets hot, that is the fault of human beings?

I'm saying two things, both clearly:

1. This is not a discussion of global warming.

2. Right now the best science points at several reasons for global warming. One of those rasons is greenhouse gases, which largely come from human endeavors.

[Shmarya]

Yosef merely follows the tradition of chazal and the prophets of saying that if you do x that is against the Torah you will be punished, and that if bad happened it is because of disobedience.

He follows it in an infantile and cruel fashion rejected by many rabbis, "enlightened" or not.

[chief doofis]

If all observant Jews were not harmed in battle, and non observant ones were, it would take away our choice. The good Chacham should know that S'char Mitzva B'hai Alma Lekah (there is no true rewatd meted out in this world). Of course, there may be some protection for good deeds, but to try to second guess the Divine is true foolishness.

It is one thing to say, "Let's examine ourselves, perhaps we are failing in some religious aspect, and repentance MAY help us". It's quite another thing to claim KNOWLEDGE as to why things happen to people.

Small wonder why the Rabbinical establishment is so unheeded outside the sheep tht follow it blindly!

[avrohom]

Lev,

NOt only that (that he takes the "sides" of someone else); he looks lechatchilah to look for anything and everything under the sun to say that all haredi and chassid and observant jews are bad and evil.

HE THE DEFENDER OF A NAZI OFFICCER ENTRUSTED TO KILL MILLIONS OF JEWS!!HE IS A VILE ANTISEMITE ANYONE ENCOURAGING HIM (WRITING IN SUPPORT OF HIS POSITIONS) IS GUILTY OF ALIGNING WITH SOMEONE WHO IS ANTISEMITE OUT TO BASH ANYTHING THAT RESEMBLES A FRUMER YID,

kssiva vechassima tova to you to all yidden, and including all people of lakeood!

[Sephardiman]

I'm so glad that Nachman, an obviously uneducated and illiterate Kugel Eater, approves of "Westernized Sephardim". I have three university degrees and I'd venture to suggest that puts me ahead of him academically.

Without reservation, I can say that he would receive more respect as an Askenazi, at my Sephardi Bait Knesset in Chicago, Ohel Shalom Torah Center, than he has displayed towards Sephardim and Chacham Ovaida.

[Alex]

Orthodox Jews need to be thrown out of the Israeli government and perhaps the IDF also.

[Rafi G]

Here is the video: http://lifeinisrael.blogspot.com/2007/08/rav-ovadia-yosefs-speech-video.html

[Nachman]

Sefardi man N"Y
Sorry to have touched a raw nerve.
I'm glad to hear that B"H you are more educated than I am. I wish you lots of success in all your endeavors. I assume though that you were educated in the western world. Throwing a tantrum though will only convince me that even westernized sefaradim revert to their natural habits/behaviors.

[Paul Freedman]

My favorite rabbinic orbiter dicta on providence blamed the tsunami on idolatry. Or was that Al Qaeda? Hmmm

Nachman: Your remarks are unseemly. However, it's worthy of note that , while Sepharadim look to the Golden age of Spain for ( somewhat of) a model, Ashkenazim persist in taking the fetid world of late 19th C. Eastern Europe as the model for today's Jewish outlook and observance. That world was one of external oppression, internal repression, secular ignorance and participation; a world that no one wanted to move to and many ( most?) wanted to escape from.Yet the fantasy persists. The same language, dress, food ( that lovely excremental chulent)and ignorance are held up as something we should all emulate.So there!

[Jim the Catholic]

Didn't Job settle all this before?

There is nothing new under the sun.

[Moshe]

I love the Askenazi food. However the 18th century dress (especially the Satmars, but also Chabadniks) and the sidelocks definitely are idiotic and cult-like, and they are NOT Jewish. The chasids tried to emulate the upper class polocks, just like Jews in this country emulate upper class Episcopalians. Oh well, the more things change, the more they stay the same!

[ShmorgelBorgel]

Anonymous 10:30 am (Sephardiman with 3three degrees?) wrote in response to Nachman's baiting... "The same language, dress, food ( that lovely excremental chulent)and ignorance are held up as something we should all emulate. So there!"

I agree partly with what you are saying, but you don't have to call cholent excremental--a lot of good people, Ashkenazi and Sepharadi alike, enjoy their cholent! A lot of other Ashkenazi cuisine I could do without...but also bear in mind that traditional Ashkenazi fare can be very diverse too...the cuisine of the Yekkes of Frankfurt wasn't entirely the same as Galizianers...etc.

[Dr Fred]

Sorry, Shmorge, it was me ( forgot to sign in).Hyperbole is the American equivalent to British irony, so take it with a grain of schmaltz.However, the fanatasy of Eastern Europe does bother.The above article about prostitution points out how desparate people were to get out ( and how decadent and decaying that society truly was).We need a new model, lest everything falls apart.

[avi]

I don't know who coined the term
"The Golden age of Spain", but it is a myth. Many Jews were tortured and forced to convert to Islam.

"the sidelocks..."
The AriZal had SHORT peyot.

Regards,

Avi

[Yisroel]

Shmarya,
I understand that you are not discussing global warming. However you are missing my point, Al Gore, and all his followers are also trying to scare all of us, by claiming we are destroying the planet.

[Shmarya]

I don't know who coined the term
"The Golden age of Spain", but it is a myth. Many Jews were tortured and forced to convert to Islam.

That was much later, after the Moors were overthrown.

[Shmarya]

I understand that you are not discussing global warming. However you are missing my point, Al Gore, and all his followers are also trying to scare all of us, by claiming we are destroying the planet.

Sigh. They are "scaring us" based on very good scientific data.

[Nachman]

What is it in what I'msaying that's getting everyone all bent out of shape?
I state what I observe.
These are cold facts.
Sefaradim are hot tempered, emotionally based decision makers, and those who failed to accept western culture are VERY PRIMITIVE.
It is of little significance how they dress, what they eat etc.
IT'S THE M-E-N-T-A-L-I-T-Y.
You can bash me and Ashkenazi Jews all you please (and you do have some valid points) but that does not change the facts...

My initial comment was to explain Rabbi Ovadia's foolish statement and what drives him to say things he does.

Please don't loose any sleep over this it's just an opinion...

[Yisroel]

Shmarya,

The scientists are trying to scare us, in order to get money from us, to do research.
How do you explain, a Newsweek article years ago trying to scare us about global cooling?

[Sephardiman]

Nachman, no one is trying to bash you, only just trying to point out that your bigotry is beneath you. Sephardic Judaism represents the authentic spirit of Judaism, something the Ashkenazim deviated from when they rejected Maran Yosef Karo's teachings.

[Shmarya]

The scientists are trying to scare us, in order to get money from us, to do research.
How do you explain, a Newsweek article years ago trying to scare us about global cooling?

1. This is not a discussiona about global warming or global cooling.

2. As data gets better and more detailed, our understanding changes.

3. Science does not need to "scare" us to get money for studies.

[Dr Fred]

Nachman: I can't believe it.Your attitude in ...well,beyond the pale. Are you Jewish?

[avi]

Shmarya,

"That was much later, after the Moors were overthrown."

Just to be clear, what timeframe do you consider to be the "golden" age?

Regards,

Avi

[Shmarya]

The same time historians do – during the reign of the Moors.

[avi]

In 711 AD, the Moors{Muslims} conquered Visigothics, mainly Christian Hispania. ...

The initial rule of the Moors in the Iberian peninsula under this Caliphate of Cordoba is generally regarded as tolerant in its acceptance of Christians, Muslims and Jews living in the same territories, though in various periods Jews were expelled and Christians relegated to a kind of second class status. The Caliphate of Córdoba collapsed in 1031 and the Islamic territory in Iberia came to be ruled by North African Moors of the Almoravid Dynasty. This second stage started an era of Moorish rulers guided by a version of Islam that left behind the tolerant practices of the past.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moors

Iberia (Spain) was conquered in 710-716 AD by Arab tribes originating from northern, central and southern Arabia. Massive Berber and Arab immigration, and the colonization of the Iberian peninsula, followed the conquest. Most churches were converted into mosques. Although the conquest had been planned and conducted jointly with a strong faction of royal Iberian Christian dissidents, including a bishop, it proceeded as a classical jihad with massive pillages, enslavement, deportations and killings.

Toledo, which had first submitted to the Arabs in 711 or 712, revolted in 713. The town was punished by pillage and all the notables had their throats cut. In 730, the Cerdagne (in Septimania, near Barcelona) was ravaged and a bishop burned alive. In the regions under stable Islamic control, Jews and Christians were tolerated as dhimmis - like elsewhere in other Islamic lands - and could not build new churches or synagogues nor restore the old ones. Segregated in special quarters, they had to wear discriminatory clothing. Subjected to heavy taxes, the Christian peasantry formed a servile class attached to the Arab domains; many abandoned their land and fled to the towns. Harsh reprisals with mutilations and crucifixions* would sanction the Mozarab (Christian dhimmis) calls for help from the Christian kings. Moreover, if one dhimmi harmed a Muslim, the whole community would lose its status of protection, leaving it open to pillage, enslavement and arbitrary killing.

By the end of the eighth century, the rulers of North Africa and of Andalusia had introduced Malikism, one of the most rigorous schools of Islamic jurisprudence, and subsequently repressed the other Muslim schools of law. Three quarters of a century ago, at a time when political correctness was not dominating historical publication and discourse, Evariste Lévi-Provençal, the pre-eminent scholar of Andalusia, wrote: "The Muslim Andalusian state thus appears from its earliest origins as the defender and champion of a jealous orthodoxy, more and more ossified in a blind respect for a rigid doctrine, suspecting and condemning in advance the least effort of rational speculation."

The humiliating status imposed on the dhimmis and the confiscation of their land provoked many revolts, punished by massacres, as in Toledo (761, 784-86, 797). After another Toledan revolt in 806, seven hundred inhabitants were executed. Insurrections erupted in Saragossa from 781 to 881, Cordova (805), Merida (805-813, 828 and the following year, and later in 868), and yet again in Toledo (811-819); the insurgents were crucified, as prescribed in Qur’an 5:33*.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/001665.php

Regards,

Avi

[Shmarya]

Avi –

You can't learn history from Jihad Watch.

Jews lived in peace in Spain for about 500 years. they were often middle class and well integrated with the rest of society.

[Nachman]

Being that I am Ashkenazi I follow Ashkenazi ruling in Halakha. Maran Habeth Yosef ZY"A was a Torah Giant. The Rema however disagreed with his rulings. Ashkenazi people follow Rema.
YES! Sefaradim were THE Torah authority for many years. AGREED UPON!
My SOLE issue is with third world mentality of jews originating from third world countries who failed to westernize.
If it walks and talks and smells like... it IS a ...
Those who were educated in Ashkenazi/western institutions are another story altogether.
'Frenk' is not a nationality it's a mentality...

[Dr Fred]

Nachman: The "founders" of the Yeshiva movement in the US post WW2 took ( the fantasy of) 19th C. Eastern Europe as their model.That place was a cultural backwater from which millions tried to escape.That's your "heritage", nothing to brag about, but then is then and now is now. We're all Jews and we need to be examples to the world, and to each other.Cut the crap and get with it!

[Yochanan Lavie]

The pre-modern, "primative" mentality is not exclusive to Sephardim like Rav Yosef. Many Ashkenazim also succumb to magical thinking. As Dr Fred points out, true Jewish piety is not wishful avodah zarah.

Spain under the Moors was a wonderful society, but the Almovarids ruined it, as they did the liberal West African Muslim kingdom of Mali. The Almovarids were fundamentalists- and therefore enemies of tolerance.

[Reb Yudel]

Seems like Reb Obie has come up with the best argument yet in favor of drafting yeshiva students.

[Shmarya]

LOL!

[Nachman]

Dr. Fred,
Millions tried to escape?
Neh!
The 'true' torah world was not aplace where 'millions' tried to escape. The fraudulent Rabbanim from that period caused some to abandon Yiddishkeit. The REAL torah world, although limited in quantity, was a light to the world.
True, even nowadays we have fraudulent Rabbanim masquerading as 'g-d's messengers' - But a large part of orthodoxy is still genuine and we adhere to what is dear to us.
When a Rav makes a silly statement like R' Yosef let it be understood that it is not necessarily the opinion of ALL orthodoxy...

To set an example to others you need to be with the program... SEFARADIM are NOT.
They for the most part are uncivilized.
I live in the NOW! NOW the WEST rules - period.

I feel the same wat about CHASIDIM SHOTIM who know very little of ANYTHING.
All my arguments are geared to protect GENUINE piety and TRUE B'nei Torah.

I assume you do not like B'nei Torah - point blank.
You fail to comprehend that even in these 'dark times' some people are DEDICATED to a cause - SERVE G-D WITH 248/365... I am well aware that they are few but they DO exist.

Shana Tova

[Dr Fred]

Ah, of course. The Taliban are more dedicated than anyone on this planet; they are willing to die for their beliefs, while you are not even willing to be civil.

[Nachman]

It seems we're not on the same frequency.

So let's stop right here.

Shana Tova

[formely frum]

well Rabbi Ovadia Yosef: must hate Israel since he could solve all the problems with the Arabs. Let all the Orthodox just take a walk to Gaza the west bank etc. they do not even need guns etc. just walk thinking about Torah and taking the land back.

Howver since he has not called his flock to do that he is Israel Hater.

What a shame I would love to see him and his flock in action

[Dr Fred]

Nachman:Tizku LeShanim Rabboth!

[Alex]

Nachman- I dare you to go to the middle of Gaza with nothing but a chumash (no weapons) and see how long you last.

[Nachman]

Don't know how long I'd last WITH a stockpile...

[Alex]

Nachman, are you honestly able to say that you would feel equally secure in the middle of Gaza while carrying either a chumash or a M-16 rifle, separately?

[Nachman]

The Torah is a protection for all who TRULY believe in it and are worthy of such.
They need no physical objects to protect them, neither Chumash nor Kalachnikov, M-16 Or UZI.

If G-d forbid your fate is sealed... NOTHING will protect you.

It is due to our weakness and faint belief in HKB"H (I must unfortunately include myself - in all honesty...) that we resort to weapons to 'protect' ourselves. We feel secure when we show strength etc. All good until... Heaven forbid.

This is what I honestly believe.

Shenishma V'nithbaser B'soroth tovoth.

[Alex]

I nominate Nachman for Israeli Minister of Defense!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL just kidding, Nachman can be the Iranian Information Minister. that's more like it.

[SteveMD2]

This nut case rabbi and his whole Shas party - where did he get his religious lessons from - Arafat? Bin Laden ? Adolf Hitler (born a Catholic btw)

I suppose I can't really post what I think about people like him, but it sure isn't nice. Thinkgs like who they should share the same hole in the ground with, etc.

Btw, I am Jewish, but every time I hear of these freaks, I get closer and closer to joining the Unitarian-Universalists, and sending money to Palestine relief groups.

And I will damn well fight against America's blind support of Israel. I've met nice Palestinians and Muslims people btw. For the Shas, there is the old expression about what I wouldn't do for them down their throats if their guts were on fire. Good riddance to them.

[SteveMD2]

This nut case rabbi and his whole Shas party - where did he get his religious lessons from - Arafat? Bin Laden ? Adolf Hitler (born a Catholic btw)

I suppose I can't really post what I think about people like him, but it sure isn't nice. Thinkgs like who they should share the same hole in the ground with, etc.

Btw, I am Jewish, but every time I hear of these freaks, I get closer and closer to joining the Unitarian-Universalists, and sending money to Palestine relief groups.

And I will damn well fight against America's blind support of Israel. I've met nice Palestinians and Muslims people btw. For the Shas, there is the old expression about what I wouldn't do for them down their throats if their guts were on fire. Good riddance to them.