An Interfaith Pesak Din From Yours Truly

So tonight I'm visiting residents in a nursing home, one I get to several times per week. I know the staff well, and I know dozens of residents. Anyway, the kitchen brings up a snack cart with sandwiches, cookies, chips and ice cream bars. The residents all go for the ice cream. One sneaks an extra bar and gives it as a present to an aide, a twenty-something woman originally from Addis Ababa, Ethiopia. She takes it and starts eating. Another aide, a nice guy also from Addis, sees her and tells her harshly in Amharic to stop eating. She does and looks shaken.

I ask her what happened. It turns out this was a fast day for Ethiopian Christians. J's mother's yartzeit and her "resurrection." The girl says to me, "I don't know what to do. I forgot I was fasting and now I cannot fast. I've never done this before! What do I do?"

So I paskened.

I told her she should not eat any more and should continue as if she were still fasting. Then, tomorrow she should call her priest to see what should be done. "He'll probably tell you to fast another day to make it up," I said, thinking of the halakhic response to similar situations.

She thought that made sense.

UPDATE 8-15-07: Tonight, I saw the Ethiopian Christian woman again. If I understood her correctly, she told me that her priest told her to finish the rest of the fast and then make up the complete fast another day. In other words, their ritual law and our halakha coincide on this one.

Comments

[Ploni]

Why do you have more respect for their customs than for ours?

[Anonymous]

How touching. Shmarya "graduates" from bashing the Torah and rabbis to encouraging the worship of Yoshke.

[David]

Ploni/Anonymous--

In fairness, it's easier to be tolerant of other peoples' religions than one's own. Shmarya probably never expected anything of Christian leaders, and so never had to experience being bitterly disappointed by them.

[moshe]

Thank you for being kind to someone who was upset. It's more than so many others would do since it involved a gentile.

[Bain Hazmanim Adventurer]

Everyone,

See Shmarya get his a$$ kicked in a debate right on his own blog!!!

Look at last week's post about "Why Hareidim have so many kids.:

http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2007/08/why-do-haredim-.html#comme

[Bain Hazmanim Adventurer]

http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2007/08/why-do-haredim-.html#comments

[Shmarya]

So childish. And so wrong.

[Bain Hazmanim Adventurer]

Let the readers decide

[Shmarya]

About how childish you are or about how wrong you are?

[Bain Hazmanim Adventurer]

About how dishonest and prejudiced you are.

If you would just stick a core of issues, you wouldn't look so bad, but your nitpicking accompanied by sweeping assertions just proves that you are motivated by Shtus - destructive intentions. You have no constructive intentions. I picked on that one silly post of yours last week (even though I was a latecomer - so much wilderness, so little bain hazmanim) because that post was just a flippant, bigoted rant and you could have just admitted such. But you chose to defend it, and to debate about it. You needed it to be true that Hareidim have no patience for safety and healthy living, etc.

From this, everyone can see that you are not honest. Your outlook takes form by the churning of your arrogance in your idle solitude.

No one can help you, but at least, next time you write some damning statement about hareidim being racist bigots, or destructive citizens, your readers may recognize that it's just a product of your fantasy. They'll realize that you NEED haredim to be racist and immoral. Your psychological condition can't tolerate Hareidim being normal, and an ancient, unreforming code of law to be, possibly, legitimate.

[Shmarya]

I think most readers will recognize that you did not make your points, did not win any argument and are juvenile.

[Abe]

Anonymous,

Treating your "Torah" with contempt isn't all that difficult after you've transformed the Torah into a bizarre caricature of its former grandeur.
Worsipping yoshke isn't so bad. Its considerably more satisfying than picking microscopic bugs out of lettuce or filtering unkosher tap water.

[shmuel]

"No one can help you, but at least, next time you write some damning statement about hareidim being racist bigots, or destructive citizens, your readers may recognize that it's just a product of your fantasy."
Please. We all know by now that charedim really, truly are racist and bigoted. They hate the "other" and everyone in the world is the other. Their lack of respect for anyone not a charedi is universally recognized and despised.
"Destructive citizens"? LOL. Charedim wrote the book. Whether it's rioting in Boro Park (against the cops, no less!), Ramat Bet Shemesh, Jerusalem, or anywhere they can burn a tire and overthrow garbage cans, there you'll find charedim. The chillul Hashem is profound and will keep us in galus for many healthy, happy years. Don't believe me? Read Harry Maryles on www.haemtza.blogspot.com and see the what he wrote regarding the NYS throughway Mincha stop. If you don't join in his humiliation and anger, you're not Jewish.

[Bain Hazmanim Adventurer]

Jews will always have plenty of opportunities to be embarrassed by their fellows. Good luck with your miserable life.

By the way I expect to be out of Golus soon, but I wonder whether you'll be left to remain in your beloved happy healthy golus.

[Yos]

Didn't know J's mother was suppose to have come back. Why would that be an occasion to fast, I wonder.

[Anonymous]

I agree that BHA kicked Shmarya's derriere.

Shmarya also lied or is grossly misinformed about instruction at yeshivos about health and safety issues. I cannot comment on Israeli yeshiva high schools of which I am unfamiliar, but many North American yeshivos that I am familiar with have the same cirricula during secular studies as any public school.

[Moshe from the City]

The Chareidim even hate each other. Satmars have on more than one occassion (when drunk on Purim in particular) beaten up Lubavitchers and vice versa. Also, in New York there are tons of Chabad sects that start trouble with each other and someone gets beaten. Let's just remember, looking like a shmuck with your unkempt beard, and ugly black coat doesn't make you a good person, it just make you a religious fundamentalist nut, probably no better that goyishe nuts.

[Yochanan Lavie]

BHA: When you make aliya, remember it is pronounced "galut" not "golus."

[Anonymous]

If Yochanan Lavie is trying to be cute, maybe he should do a little more research. The original pronounciation is NOT "galut" as the Sefardim say it, but rather "galuth" like the Yemenites pronounce.

[Y. Ben Qor'ha]

maybe he should do a little more research. The original pronounciation is NOT "galut" as the Sefardim say it, but rather "galuth" like the Yemenites pronounce.
sez Anon,

Anything but sefardis chas vesholom! or (let's tuck in a yud for fun) veshoylom. (2 yuds) but what can i tell you? you are right. and it's not only the yemenites, minhag bavel too. taf refuyah, is th. even dalet refuyah is dh (really a d aspiring to be a z).
really, the spanish language has affected the sefardis pronounciation. even arabic (and chaldean) has a d and a dh, t and th.
but the negative effect of spanish on hebrew is still nowhere close to the mass butchering incurred during the german, polish and russian onslaught on hebrew.
from a semitic language(like arabic, aramaic etc..) , so called ashkenazi "hebrew" is a failed slavic dialect. i beg your forgiveness but ask any onlooker. it's not only the consonnants - whereby th=ss, even the vowels, almost all shevaeem are naeem kamatz gadol becomes a total 'holam?! all residual differences, are totally drowned in the difference between polish, litwack and russian yiddish. in any case, no matter what, r' yochanan is right: right or wrong, in israel of today, u can say golus until you are blue in the face, only american new immigrants will understand you.

[Anonymous]

Ashkenazi pronounciation was affected by more than just Slavic and Germanic language. The bitter cold climate also played a role over many centuries. People don't open their mouths much to pronounciate when it's freezing. It's also possible that Sefardi and Teimani pronounciation was affected to some degree by hot climate and spicy foods. You might get a better idea if I could mime to you some examples in person.

[Isa]

Back in Minnesota, my tailor was Assrian [Christian] and I found out that their language in the home was Syriac (Aramaic with Syriac script).
I had him pronounce the Syriac alphabet and it was extremely close to the Yeminite Hebrew and I could hear the small differences between letters.
Any MiddleEastern christian who disavows being 'Arab' is likely to be a friend of Jews. Any Christian who calls themselves 'Arab' is likely to be an enemy. This is NOT 100% certain in either case. Any christian who calls themselves 'Syrian' rather than 'Arab' RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!

[Yochanan Lavie]

Actually I was trying to be cute. The Yeminite pronunciation is correct, but unfortunately it's not standard Israeli Hebrew.

[Anonymous]

Christian Arabs are still genetically Arabs and have a predisposition to hate Jews and Americans. The Wall Street Journal even had a writeup about this. What a bunch of losers. They feel this way even though the fanatical Muslims hate them and often kill them. It's like the Kurds who despise Jews even though they are so persecuted themselves.

[Isa]

Regarding:""""Christian Arabs are still genetically Arabs and have a predisposition to hate Jews"""
TRUE!
The Coptics, Maronites, some Greek Catholics, Armenians do NOT consider themselves to be Arabs. They bemoan the Arab conquest just like the Palestians bemoan the Zionist conquest.I think the majority of Christians in Israel and the territories are Greek Orthodox and THEY consider themselves to be Arab. There is a party in Lebanon called the Syrian National Socialist Party that was started by a Greek Orthodox [Anton Saadah] Their motto: No borders- No Jews. They consider themselves to be 'Syrian' Run as fast as you can!

[Dr Fred]

Moshe: I recall Martial's epigram; "If beards meant wisdom, any old fart could be Plato".

[PrincessTalkALot]

Shmarya isn't "worshipping" jesus. He was just trying to help a woman in distress.

Why can't you people get a clue; Shmarya isn't going out of his way to bash Judaism and Torah; he is just disgusted with how some Jews behave outrageously immoral but still see themselves as "frum."

[Yochanan Lavie]

George Habash of PFLP was Christian. Michel Aflaq, the founder of the Baath Party was Christian. Edward Said was Christian, as is Hanan Ashrawi. Tariq Aziz, Saddam's butt boy, was Christian. However, pro-Zionist Christian Arabs include Brigitte Gabriel, Joseph Farah, and I believe the actor Jamie Farr (Cpl. Klinger).

I live in a town with many Christian Arabs of various denominations, as well as many Muslims. It seems that they go to extremes; they either bend over backwards to prove their Arab bonafides, or they make common cause with the Jews and repudiate Arab nationality.

[Anonymous]

"disgusted with how some Jews behave outrageously immoral but still see themselves as "frum."

That's actually what UOJ does on his blog. Shmarya is beyond the pale. If PrincessTalkaLot would stop babbling and pay close attention she would see not just Shmarya's disingenious bashing but his deep seeded bitterness as well.

[Anonymous]

"or they make common cause with the Jews and repudiate Arab nationality."

Those may be the ones whose family have been slaughtered by Muslims. Like R' Avigdor Miller said, a Liberal is in a state prior to being robbed / bashed over the head by a thug. Then he becomes Conservative.

[Sarah]

This site points out the disgusting and often illegal actions of many so-called leaders of the ultra-Orthodox community who drive Jews away and generate anti-Semitism among Gentiles. Those of you who don't like to hear the message -- true and accurate as it is -- beat up on the messenger.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Anonymous: As a former liberal who was mugged by reality, I would say you're right.

[PrincessTalkALot]

I am not needlessly babbling. Of course he is bitter. I'm bitter. It pisses me off that so many frum Jews are behaving this way.

[Dr Fred]

Sarah: Frum Jews have come to believe that the essence of Judaism lies in ritual observance, not Derech Eretz.Having accepted this grevious error, they, in significant measure,make ritual their idol. And what is "wrong" with idolatry? In idolatry,the only concern of the worshipper is his/her behavior re the idol; no introspection, no self examination, no concern with how others are treated.We see this all the time and it's appalling and disgusting.

[Isa]

To Yochanan Lavie:
Habash is Greek Orthodox,Aflaq is Syrian Orthodox, Ashrawi is either Greek Orthodox or perhap Latin Catholic. For the pro 'Zionist' Joseph Farah and Jamie Farr are Lebanese most certainly Maronite [at least by birth] When your ancestors have been butchered by the 'Mohameden' (excuse the spelling) and the Jew has never bothered your ancestors, well guess what side one is likely to be one. For the Greek Orthodox I THINK what happened was their mother church was the Russian Orthodox Church that was 'screwed over' by the Communists. Guess who they might blame for the Communists? The Jew thats who!
For the Maronite, has been taught that THEIR Phoenecian King Hiram of Tyre had an alliance/treaty with King Solomen of Israel and THEIR craftspeople built the First Temple.
Ask if they consider themselves to be an Arab- If yes, make sure your gun has bullets in it, if no, possible friend,The Serbian Orthodox is a different case altogether, cause they remember their grandparents were stuck in SS concentration camps along with Jews by either the Moslem Albanian SS or the Croatian Catholics during WWII.
For Tariq Aziz: Sadaam as bad as he was, was good to the LOYAL Christian. A loyal Christian could sit in the middle of the bus, not at the back, Nobody could hurt a loyal Christian except for Sadaam himself. In the old days a Christian could be killed, like a rat and NOTHING would be done.

[Avrohom]

This site is devoted to show not only how you should combine derech eretz with ritual; it comes to tell you: ritual is menaingless, ritual "idol worship" (afreh le[pumey) This site is antithetical to yiddishkeyt. It is goyish. It abohrrs Hashem ELokey Yisroel. It abhors atoh bechartanu. It uses "derech erez" a apretext to bash atoh bechartanu.

All of you who generalize on all observant jews that they lack derech erts , that they do not introspect are just racist antismeites. If this would be the other way around you would scream bloody murder about "Racism" and bigotry. But you do so to observant jews without distinguishing whether or not there are instances where your criticisms have no place in reality or they have underlying reasons why they happen or there are hardships etc etc.

But you want to do away with judaism that you call "ritual" and call it "idol worshipping"; you learnt in the temples to do away with yiddishkeyt and anything thati s yiddishkeyt you call them "idol worship".

The result in practical terms are: you want to do away with circumcision as we know it, you laud the expulsion of 9,000 jews (and have heart bleeding for israel's enemies), "humanistic" jews do not care when jews are expelled, their energy is spent in "Tikkun olam" they at best have no time for the jews, then you critcize all tzadikim regardless of who they are what good they did to the world and jewry, and at the end you defend AN SS OFFICCER!!!

You worship the idolatry of the so called "Humaniosm" and you put yourself in a position of holy than thou that you are "it" in derech erets ...and use it as pretext sacrifice in the alter yididshkeyt as "WE know it"!

[Anonymous]

Believe it or not, Hanan Ashrawi, one of the most butt ugly women on the planet, was Peter Jennings's lover. The anchor to be was Beirut correspondant for ABC News in the 1970s. This was reported in the NY Post and elsewhere quoting US Intelligence after the scandalous, staged interview that Jennings gave a few years ago, allowing her to make all kinds of conspiratorial outbursts against Jews without challenging her.

[Ichabod Chrain]

So Shmarya, did you pasken right?

(Besides I don't see how this is worshipping Yoshke. The lady was just trying to be respectful of her mother.)

[Shmarya]

I don't yet know …

[Sarah]

Peter Jennings also had a fling with Barbara Streisand. Maybe that was his teshuvah for the Ashrawi affair.
Note to Avrohom: this site telling the truth and exposing the liars and goneffs among the haredim isn't Jew bashing, just a reminder to them that they can still mend their ways and make the world safer for all Jews and stop generating so much hatred of us.

[avrohom]

sarah,
"exposing the liars and goneefs": means saying all observant jews are liars and goneffs!?! "generating somuch hatred"?

is when self hating jews are embarassedof their identity that they bend backwards to the goyim and "we do not associate with those goneffs" telling the world that all observant jews are goneffs and liars...ha self introspection you and your friends and how much hate you guys generate....mend your ways to see how you stood behind when your brothers and sisters suffer....how man of you pay money to the nyt and other lftist organizations that bash erets yisroel and the jewish dwellers...how many of are liars to badmouth israel and you caused the exulsion of 9,000 jews and the ksssam rockets...see how all your ways leads to harship for the jews in israel....howmuch death is attibuted to your "holier than thou" attitude...after you "mend your ways" talk to observant jews about "mending their ways"...

[Yochanan Lavie]

Isa: Thanks for the informative follow-up. I wasn't sure of the denominations, but I do know Said was Anglican, and the "C of E" has never been a friend of the Jews. (As you probably know, Prostestant missionaries were unsucessful w/Muslims, but did get some Christians to switch denominations).

Brigitte Gabriel is a Maronite, whose mother was treated (very nicely) in an Israeli hospital free of charge. That's what caused her to become philosemitic.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Believe it or not, Hanan Ashrawi, one of the most butt ugly women on the planet, was Peter Jennings's lover.

Maybe he just threw a Palestinean flag over her face, and did it for the cause.

[Dr Fred]

Avrohom: I take it that your reference is to my post. Once again, your ability to read objectively is deficient. The "purpose" of ritual as I see it ( in this world with the limited insight of man) is to bind oneself to God, Torah and Israel.Once that is achieved, there is the hope that the ethos of Judaism will be "absorbed", as it were.Unfortunately, there are those who can't see the forest for the twigs.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Dr. Fred, I think Rav Kook warned that the mitzvot themselves can be turned into idolatry. Another feature of pagan thought is that a diety can be bribed, placated, or manipulated through prayer and/or sacrifice. (I believe in prayer, but I don't think it's magic).

Also, hero worship is another feature. The human-like gods, or god-lioke heroes, are special beings to whom the normal rules of morality don't apply. Unfortunately, in the post-Christian west, the cult of the celebrity is a reintroduction of paganism.

In Judaism, the Vilna Gaon worried that tzaddik-worship could intorduce such things into Judaism. I think it has, but alas, the Litvishe yeshivot now seem to regard their sages with same infaillibility as chasidim do their rebbes.

[Dr Fred]

Yochanon:Just a thoght but I've often thought that Chassidism arose in Russia because the Jewish peasant wanted what the Gentiles had, viz., miracle workers and wandering holy men.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Dr. F: I think you're right. They were influenced by the folk religion of the Catholic and Christian Orthodox peasants. Their clothing is an imitation of the local nobility.

[Anonymous]

According to US Intel, Jennings was sleeping around with many Arab women besides Ashrawi. He was fighting the Jews with his last dying erections and breath. The NY Observer reported that right before he kicked the bucket, he launched a lawsuit against Rabbi Marc Angel's shul on the Upper West Side. He lived down the street and was unhappy about their expansion and renovations.

[Anonymous]

Has Yochanan Lavie attended any Litvish yeshivos that he should know about any purported "infallability" regard factor of roshei yeshiva on par with Chassidim and their Rebbes? I think not.

I attended different yeshivos before learning in Lakewood for years and I can tell you that apart from the rare great ones like R' Moishe Feinstein, yeshivaleit do not think this way at all.

[ShmorgelBorgel]

"[Jennings] was fighting the Jews with his last dying erections and breath. The NY Observer reported that right before he kicked the bucket, he launched a lawsuit against Rabbi Marc Angel's shul on the Upper West Side."

I am not disputing that Jennings was biased towards the Arab Palestinian side in his coverage, but c'mon, a lot of people on that block in the UWS are against Shearith Israel building a huge tower that will blot out the sunlight and is not in character with that part of the neighborhood. Also, Jennings was also married for a time to Kati Marton, a Hungarian Jewish Holocaust survivor. He must have had a thing for Semitic women, Arabs and Jews alike.

[Isa]

Peter Jennings smoked cigarettes and died from lung cancer.He quit smoking them started again after 911-he was a heavy smoker.
Blessed are You O L-rd who created the tobacco plant.

[Avrohom]

The purpose of "ritual" as Hashem sees it and conveys to us in His Torah to bind oneself to G-d Torah and Israel is reached when done in accordance with the Will of G-d. THere are those who think that they will find their own avenues to make the link with G-d. That is fine with me. But they should not come with their holier-than-thou snnobbish attitude that denigrates those who follow the tradition that the bond with G_d and His Torah depends upon following the rituals to the T. When one studies talmud and Shulchan Aruch one sees that the Rabbis of yore were hung up in ritual to the minutest detail. Those who are not fond of this medium fine. But to denigrate and yet call it "idol worship" is sickening. The reformers of the way with which to bond with G-d have strayed so much from the original ideas that they denigrate their mother by calling her an traitor! how silly and yes "idol worshipping" of them when they follow the cultures of the day that puts "secularism" and humanism over tradition and the bond to G-d which is reached only by following the directives by tradition.

Those who repeat mantras the Rav so and so warned that mitzvot can be turned into idolatry, are so distant from those RAvs and mentors and the mentors would turn in their graves had they known that their words are misinterpreted to mean that the way masses follow tradition with their common faith and sincere beleif in Hashem called "emunah pshtuah" which manifests itself relating to G-d in ways with which they relate (and they have no other word to convey to that other than saying they are "Bribing" G-d but they all know intuitively that this is not what they mean)! Had they known that their words would twisted and distorted by those who would like to take away following the mitzvot of Hashem and the simplicity of it's ways to be substituted to reforming and changing the ways upon which jews lived for thousands of years they would reconsider their own ideas....

While human gods are shunned in judaism, emulating and "attaching" oneself to Talmidey Chachamim and Tzadikim is part and parcel to Judaism. And obviously normal rules of morality applies to them as well.
Reformers and the like like to quote selective piece of Vilna Gaon and even talmud when they are jumping over hundredns and thousand sof stories and pages in our tradition that allows, encourages and commands attaching oneself to tzadsikim and chachomim. IN fact our Rabbis tell us: that the way to attach oneself to G-d is through attching oneself to Rabbis. and obviously this implies that they are on a higher plane thatn other individuals.

It is the the corruption of judaism when people think that all of judaism is the negation of anything religious that is adopted by other groups. Worse when religion is so foreign that all one relates to jewish tradition is by saying no to prayer ritual becuae it sounds "christian" or some other silly idea.

The sadness of all the above is when some of the proponenets of these ideas are people who want to destrroy every fabric of our jewish tradition. They would like to do away with circumcision as we know it under the guise of secular values and garbing it in "jewish tradition".

Roshj Chodesh ELul a good time to make an introspection if all of Judaism consists of: denigration of the way Jews have lived for thousands of years!

[Haforsko]

IN fact our Rabbis tell us: that the way to attach oneself to G-d is through attching oneself to Rabbis. and obviously this implies that they are on a higher plane thatn other individuals.

To paraphrase J, the rabbis are saying: "We are way, the truth and light; no one knows hashem but through us."

And J. was considered a meglomaniac?

[Yochanan Lavie]

Anonymous: I concede your point regarding some yeshivot. But what about in Israel? I heard that roshei yeshivot give out advice, blessings, amulets, etc., just like rebbes. Also, Daas Torah is similar to papal infalibility- even more so because the pope is considered infailible "ex cathedra" i.e. about religion, and not about anything else. Daas Torah, I believe, concerns all issues rabbinic authories opine on. If so, that is like the worship of tzaddikim found in chasidut.

[yona loriner]

made up story its soooo distorted

[Sarah]

The Orthodox look down on any of us who won't believe their way is the only way and despise us as is proven on some of these posts. Lots of them think nothing of lying to us and cheating us because we're not "one of them" and I've heard stories of them even doing it to each other. Many of their own children see all this plus the rampant spousal abuse and have left the fold, with some ending up on drugs. But they cover it up and yell lashon hara if anyone dares to talk about it. It's heartbreaking to meet abused wives and ex-wives and students abused by rabbis and teachers in yeshivas.

[Dr Fred]

Yona: We sent our daughter to a girl's seminary in Israel post Yeshiva high school.She contracted pneumonia and spent 6 weeks recuperating in their "dorm". The Rosh Yeshiva or his wife never visited her once nor did they call us to inform us of her progress. Contempt is the correct term but it's not strong enough.If that rabbi ever comes to our house he will be met by a Russian mishaberach, in spades.

[Anonymous]

Amulets are widespread in the Sefardic and CHassidic worlds. The Litvish have an aversion to anything that could be construed as segulah-like or "superstitious."

There is no longer any central Daas Torah from what I can tell. We are so far from Sinai that we have come to this. There are dubious proclamations "signed" by gedolei Eretz Yisroel that some roshei yeshiva tell me appear to be coming from mafia-like consiglieres that surround and shield Rav Elyashev from the public.

A kol korei in recent years that was signed by many roshei yeshivas and rebbes was circulated by a convicted felon with an agenda. A rosh yeshiva who would not sign believes many of the others were misled and manipulated.

There are a few figures of worthy character and scholarship to merit leadership but they are too old and frail to get involved. They have also been shunted off to the sidelines by the laymen running the Agudah. Rav Chaim of Brisk predicted generations ago that the Agudah "secretaries" would eventually hijack the ship.

[Anonymous]

Sarah, you seem to be bitter from some unfortunate experience. There are some ignorant or evil individuals who behave in the manner you describe but you cannot paint the rest with the same broad stroke. Stealing from gentiles and secular Jews is forbidden. Anyone who does so will also steal from his own kind.

The claims of lashon hara are a perversion of the Torah. Many of us recognize the institutionalized corruption and are fighting back. This has come about thanks to a group of businessmen masquerading as rabbis who are running a cartel. The truth will prevail in the end.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Anonymous: Thank you for your reply.

[yona loriner]

how pathetic

[Miriam]

To anonymous who won't post his or her name: Sarah doesn't sound bitter to me. It's just the same old same old from the defenders of the evil and corrupt rabbis. Like using the old lashon hara bit to attempt to silence anyone who speaks out against rabbis and institutions that do terrible harm to Jews as well as to the world in general. Why do the Orthodox refuse to deal with the problem of the abuse of young boys in their yeshivas? Proportionally, it may be as bad as in the R.C. Church. Is this the Jewish way?

[Anonymous]

Miriam, it is not the Jewish way. Maybe I was not clear enough in my explanation of what is happening.

Institutional corruption is rife in the Orthodox world at this point due to various shifts in demographics and other factors. As the blogger UOJ or even some rabbis themselves will tell you, certain families have hijacked various yeshivos and organizations. While leadership posts were always taken up by those who merited them, they have recently been seized by corrupt people who protect everything for their clan. The general Orthodox population is suffering from the evil deeds and greed of the new "leaders". Whether it be child abuse, mafia tactics to silence those outspoken against injustice, or outrageous yeshiva tuition jacked up by people lining their pockets, we are all paying the price.

I can tell you it is much more infuriating to those of us on the inside than it is to outsiders.

It is wrong to paint all of us as evildoers when most of us are being victimized by this insanity.

Some of the readers here who have a problem with Shmarya are coming from this angle. We take issue with his attacks on Orthodoxy as it were. If you'd like to get a better idea, try reading UOJ's blog who tackles the problem with an eye on fixing the problems, instead of just bashing everyone by association.

[Alex]

" yeshiva tuition jacked up by people lining their pockets, we are all paying the price. "

because you loosers hate secular studies so you can't get real careers.

[Anonymous]

We can always count on Alex to chime in with one of his boorish and incoherent outbursts. Which 5th rate school did he get an "education" from?

[Dr Fred]

Anon: If the founder of this blog is abrasive, so what? It takes a special person to be a whistleblower ( don't try it unless you're prepared to suffer big time) and many such people have an agenda, a grudge or what have you, but they do a necessary service to everyone who srtives for morality.The reality is that it's truly a difficult job that exacts its price...but someone has to do it.Consider the message, sort out the excesses, but, above all, be grateful that someone does it.Chazak U'Baruch to him and to those like him!