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June 18, 2007

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The whole "learning torah protects Israel" thing is a scam just so the haredim can avoid work & army.

Both the left and the right political parties bribe the chareidim in return for support of their agendas. It's very cynical.

You are both right about that. Im sure you know the drash about how Yehoshua and Chur held up Moshes arms to heaven because emunat and bitachon beHashem would win the day, not blatts.

>The whole "learning torah protects Israel" thing is a scam just so the haredim can avoid work & army.

Its an explicit Halacha In Shulchan Aruch, you blithering ignorant.

You are the "blthering idiot," ed. There is NO such halakha.

In wars of self defense, which surely Israel's are, there are NO exemptions given to scholars.

Ed- why don't you immigrate to Iran as a dhimmi? I figured u would cause u are a dummy.

Mr. Ed:
Riddle me this: if Torah study is the great protector you claim it is:
1. Why did it not protect Israel of 2000 years ago, seeing as how it was filled with Tannaim, the very greatest rabbinic scholars? The Romans ran right over them and Bar Kochba too. Some protection.
2. Why did the great Talmudic scholarship of the Tosafists not protect the Jewish communities of Europe during the Crusades?
3. There were some great Torah scholars alive in the mid 1600's, too, and if are to believe haredi (false) history, everyone was frum, and learning Torah! Why, then, did the decimating massacres by Chmelnitzky occur?
4. I guess I don't have to inquire about the Holocaust. Lots of bnei yeshiva, lots of Torah studied, 6 million dead, European Jewry burnt to a crisp, vanished. Over. Protection?
Ed? Hello? You there? Ed? I need an answer.

Ed,

Just curious. First off, if the state is treif why protect it. Kollel people should have in mind, when learning, to have the state dismantled peacefully (that was the satmar rebbe's shita and kavana). Wouldn't that kavana be more appropiate ??

Also, before davening for a sick person we mention the person's name. I have never heard of a case of a mashgiach in a yeshiva proclaim first thing in the morning after breakfast - Listen Up Bachurim ! Today we are learning torah so that the jewish people in our land should be protected.

I think the tears of a poor yemenite jew at the kotel might also be instrumental in protecting the jewish people. Yet, i don't see someone like him walking around thinking that he is g-d's gift to the jewish people.

Spot on. Indeed, why protect a treife state? I often wondered why yeshiva guys like to argue that their study protects Israel. And, right again, never heard anyone ever dedicate that day's study to the welfare and continued existence of the state of Israel. Sounds almost crazy to imagine a mashgiach would ever say it. Yasher koach, malachhamovies!

Shmuel,


Thanks for the kind comments. Although many people despise the views of satmar and neturei karta, in reality, their views are less disingenuous then the typical israeli charedei (just give me the money because i'm protecting you and i'm better then you) arguments.

By the way, the satmar rebbe mentions this point in his sefer "Al Hageula V'al Hatruma".

He writes that Israel should be taken over by the UN (not the arabs) and to daven that the state should be dismantled peacefully.

MHM,
Right again: they are at least consistent and less deceitful. But Israel being taken over by the UN is some heck of a pipe dream, with hundreds of millions of Arabs surrounding Israel. I don't even know what it means to dismantle a nation "peacefully" and neither did he.
Just a little quibble: it's "Temurah" (exchange) not Trumah (tithes).
Keep it coming!

Shmuel,

Duly noted. Thanks !

Why should the state give the haredim a dime if they are going to bite the hand that feeds them?

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