Haredim Seek Legislation To Bar Minors From Internet Cafés

Israel is seeking ways to regulate Internet usage, specifically ways to block porn and other "objectionable" content. Most approaches to this are benign – better filters or Knesset prizes for wholesome websites. But, as the Knesset nears action, the haredim have stepped forward with their view. The Jerusalem Post reports:

According to MK Ya'acov Cohen (United Torah Judaism), who said he had no Internet at home, on-line computing is "a dangerous tool" that has "created a revolution." He said he agreed with leading rabbis who outlaw its use unless people need it to make a living.

Cohen advocated the passage of legislation that would bar minors from going into Internet cafes or other places with on-line computers.

Why no legislation to bar minors from going to mikvas? Plenty of danger there, it seems. (Post 1, post 2, post 3.)

Comments

[Nigritude Ultramarine]

Classic coercive mind control tactics at work.

The morons running the Joan Dachs Bais Yaakov elementary school in Chicago came up with the same thing a few days ago. They will not be admitting students with T.V. in their homes. Parents have been asked to get rid of Web access unless they need it for work.

Interestingly their ban does not apply to the faculty and staff.

[Alex]

Haradim can run from modernity but they can't hide.

[Alex]

Haradim can run from modernity but they can't hide.

[Alex]

BTW ... I am a secular person and I NEVER look at porn. Could it be that the haradim don't trust in their ablity to teach kids to not look at pornography without trying to isolate them from the rest of the world?

[AC]

I agree.
As well, speaking as a web developer and from personal experience.
The net has changed alot over the past 5 years. It is alot safer to go online and there is much less porn and bad sites which link to everyday websites you and me visit daily. Unless someone is searching for porn, there is a good chance they will not come across it.
I am afraid the tactic of banning the net, as opposed to teaching self control and net safety, will backfire on skin hungry haredim when they finally get their hands on a computer with net access.
With society and technology advancing at the rate it is, the haredim will move further and further from normative society until they will become an unemployed version of the Amish with a few 'machers'(prob earning their parnasa online) supporting the rest at poverty level.

- side note,
Over Shabat someone was quoting to me a "gadol" who said it's better to beg for charity than to work on the internet. When I mentioned this to my wife she laughed and said "then they will just be begging charity from the people who are earning their living on the net", which is the truth, it's hard to remain a viable company these days without web presence.
It's hard to be frugal with major home purchases without the ability to search online for prices and items as well.

[ed]

>It's hard to be frugal with major home purchases without the ability to search online for prices and items as well.

My local library has 15 internet computers available for public usage.

[ed]

>According to MK Ya'acov Cohen (United Torah Judaism), who said he had no Internet at home, on-line computing is "a dangerous tool" that has "created a revolution."

For proof, one doesn't need to read anything more than failedmessiah.

[Yochanan Lavie]

I don't want Big Brother telling me what I can or can't read (or write). AJ Liebling said freedom of the press belongs to those that own one. On the net, we can all exchange our views.

[KRAMER]

there is an internet cafe on yafo st in Jerusalem. They have about 20 computers upstairs and about 12 downstairs.

a few of the upstairs computers are set up in a booth type configuration just like the porno booths on 42nd st.
they are their for one reason and one reason only.
these "wanker booths" are not off limits to kids, where the ones on 42nd st are.
I think they should start with baning children from the wanker booths, not the whole internet cafe.
If the internet cafe wants to be classified as an adult entertainment establishment then they should be able to keep the wanker booths, but i see no place for them in an internet cafe

[AC]

I think those booths are for teleconferencing

[Garnel Ironheart]

Interestingly, Time Magazine recently had a cover story on the Internet, the summary of which was: After all its potential, the Internet is just a giant porno shop.
The first thing we must understand is that internet standards are different in different countries. My ISP here in North America automatically blocks out unrequested content from my browser and puts unrequested mass mailings automatically in my Spam folder so I never have to deal with it. My experience in Israel, however, has been that this is generally NOT the case. I was watching a friend browse a medical site (no, it was a real medical site) and as he did, a pop-up offering him his choice of Russian prostitutes appeared on his screen. Another friend told me how random pornographic advertisements appear on his cell phone screen during conversations.
As always, there's a compromise between the chareidi "ban it all" position and the "let our 10 year olds whack off in public" position. ISP's can be made to give the subscriber the option of automatically filtering out unwanted or objectionable materials flying across the 'Net. Public Cafes can have limited access areas like the one Kramer suggested so that access exists for those who want it but not for children. Frankly, I like the idea of chareidi cell phones if only because I don't like the idea of receiving advertisements I never wanted. The 'net could be fixed up like that too.

[Garnel Ironheart]

Interestingly, Time Magazine recently had a cover story on the Internet, the summary of which was: After all its potential, the Internet is just a giant porno shop.
The first thing we must understand is that internet standards are different in different countries. My ISP here in North America automatically blocks out unrequested content from my browser and puts unrequested mass mailings automatically in my Spam folder so I never have to deal with it. My experience in Israel, however, has been that this is generally NOT the case. I was watching a friend browse a medical site (no, it was a real medical site) and as he did, a pop-up offering him his choice of Russian prostitutes appeared on his screen. Another friend told me how random pornographic advertisements appear on his cell phone screen during conversations.
As always, there's a compromise between the chareidi "ban it all" position and the "let our 10 year olds whack off in public" position. ISP's can be made to give the subscriber the option of automatically filtering out unwanted or objectionable materials flying across the 'Net. Public Cafes can have limited access areas like the one Kramer suggested so that access exists for those who want it but not for children. Frankly, I like the idea of chareidi cell phones if only because I don't like the idea of receiving advertisements I never wanted. The 'net could be fixed up like that too.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Good post, Garnel. My position is that kids are overly sexualized today, and that is a bad thing. Children should be sheltered, but adults should not be infantilized in return. I dislike porno, and philosophically disapprove of it, but I am libertarian on adults wanting to see that junk. Kids should NEVER see it. Also, I don't want to be spammed with any content I don't want- it is an unfair intrusion.

However, those who want to bludgeon the internet with the blunt object of a ban are probably more concerned with stifling ideas than with protecting kids. That can be done with filters and parental involvement. The rabbis want total thought control.

(I can see similar trends in the old media, after the Don Imus debacle. The elites will use it as an excuse to introduce censorship).

[Lawrence M. Reisman]

Nigritude Ultramarine writes that
"The morons running the Joan Dachs Bais Yaakov elementary school in Chicago came up with the same thing a few days ago. They will not be admitting students with T.V. in their homes. Parents have been asked to get rid of Web access unless they need it for work." And up until now they allowed families with TV? A number of years ago, one of the New York yeshivas tried to start banning boys from homes with TV. Rav Pam (not necessarily my favorite person for a lot of reasons) ruled that if the ban was not in place from the beginning, they couldn't institute it now.

Interestingly their ban does not apply to the faculty and staff.

[AC]

censorship is not all bad. I wonder what the haredi postion would be if america banned all porn like china and other countries do.
would they still be able to broadly ban the internet? would they have a milk crate to stand on?

[Alex]

There are reasons why the Internet is a regulation free zone- the second government intrudes on the internet will be the second the government will want to tax sales on the internet and then that will kill ecommerce.

Also, haradim probably wouldn't have to worry so much about a potential porn problem if they allowed a normal amount of interaction between the sexes - men and women would be able to satisfy innate desires with more civil (less overt) channels.

Similarly, my experience in viewing non co-ed religious schools would be that the guys would probably be better behaved if they had girls around them all the time that guys would not want to make a bad impression with.

[Alex]

There are reasons why the Internet is a regulation free zone- the second government intrudes on the internet will be the second the government will want to tax sales on the internet and then that will kill ecommerce.

Also, haradim probably wouldn't have to worry so much about a potential porn problem if they allowed a normal amount of interaction between the sexes - men and women would be able to satisfy innate desires with more civil (less overt) channels.

Similarly, my experience in viewing non co-ed religious schools would be that the guys would probably be better behaved if they had girls around them all the time that guys would not want to make a bad impression with.

[Alex]

Basically this leads me to the point that human nature should be worked with in order to make people into better people ... opposing human nature can (theoretically and probably realistically) backfire.

[Alex]

Basically this leads me to the point that human nature should be worked with in order to make people into better people ... opposing human nature can (theoretically and probably realistically) backfire.

I agree with the post above which pointed out that porn is a red herring here. Instead of banning internet they could simply require everyone to subscribe to "Net Nanny" which is the most annoyingly vigilant software filter I know. Parents can even add their own keywords to this software when new "trends" appear, and beside that it updates itself regularly. There are many more programs like this one, too.

So porn isn't reason they want internet banned - information is what they want banned: information about scandals and crimes, information about science and medicine that contradicts mesora, information about people's right to have freedom of religion and self-determination. Like all tyrants, they fear information, not skin.

[Litvak]

So in other words, the rabbis want to pass a law instead of teaching parents to do good parenting? This is so stupid especially considering that Israel is well known as the white slave capital of the world

[Nigritude Ultramarine]

And up until now they allowed families with TV?

That is correct. In Chicago there aren't many options for to send one's children to elementary school. I guess they want the parents with T.V. to send their kids to public school.

[Nigritude Ultramarine]

And up until now they allowed families with TV?

That is correct. In Chicago there aren't many options to send one's children to elementary school. I guess they want the parents with T.V. to send their kids to public school.

[Nigritude Ultramarine]

Crud. Didn't mean to double post.

[jewishwhistleblower]

http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=13991

Religious preschools in New York City have long been exempt from permit requirements and other stringencies. But that could change under a proposal from activist health commissioner Dr. Thomas Frieden, who wants to mandate criminal and child-abuse background checks, increased training and other measures that would affect the largest schools.

Under Frieden’s proposal, religious preschools attached to elementary schools would be exempt from permits or background checks, but would be subject to other provisions of the health code and would, for the first time, be monitored for violations.

The regulations range from fire safety measures to rules on space, the keeping of pets, control of insects and rodents, ventilation and lighting and plumbing, among other issues.

“There has not been a significant revision of child care regulations in nearly 20 years,” Frieden said in a statement.

At an April 19 public hearing, representatives of the Catholic Archdiocese and Agudath Israel of America, among others, raised concerns that a sea change of new regulations would wreak havoc, forcing preschools out of existing spaces in neighborhoods where new quarters are scarce, and that the increased administrative costs would be too much to bear. And then there are free-exercise-of-religion concerns.

“We are considering all comments very carefully and think important points have been made,” said Sara Markt, a spokeswoman for the health department, on Tuesday. “This is precisely what the comment period is for.”

The city has extended the public comment period until July 30, inviting providers to send their input in writing. But a watering down of the regulations is seen as unlikely.

“I don’t think they intend to back off,” said Brooklyn Councilman David Yassky, who represents Williamsburg, where tens of thousands of chasidic children attend unregulated preschools. He’s raised objections with Frieden and with City Hall.

He said that while no one objects to the safety enhancements, “this regulation requires teachers to have certain certification and for [schools] to have low student-teacher ratios. That really gets into the education mission of the school. It really does cross the line between church and state.” The regulations, he says, would force schools “to be in permanent negotiations with the government.”

[jewishwhistleblower]

Conversion agreement off?
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=13998

Sex offender inmate caught eating treif, demands kosher and gets
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=14005
http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070501/REPOSITORY/705010353

Holocaust Cash Went To Shadowy Pal Of Ousted WJC Leader
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=14012

[C-G]

It's been suggested that if online porn was ever banned, there would be only one site left on the whole internet and it would be called bringbackporn.com

;-)

[AC]

I never see porn. I see so many sites in the course of my work and none have anything to do with porn.
Maybe there is alot of sites out there but only deviants go looking for it.
If you exercise self control, and teach your family to do so, I don't see the problem with the internet.
Self control= no porn, no IMing with strangers, no chatrooms, no gambling
It's that simple, why don't people understand that this is all there is to internet safety.

[Nigritude Ultramarine]

Self control= no porn, no IMing with strangers, no chatrooms, no gambling

And making sure that Moderate SafeSearch is enabled in order to filter out explicit images when doing a Google Image Search.