What Would Passover Be Without A Good Matzah-Fueled Disaster?

Haredim in Spring Valley were caught with a woodfired matzah bakery set up in an old school bus adjacent to homes. The bus had live gas lines running through it. The home the bus was directly behind is owned by a synagogue. Presumably, the bus served as the synagogue's matzah bakery. Apparently, someone in the haredi community called police after smelling smoke (on Shabbat morning) in the vicinity of the bus bakery. Police say the illegal bakery had been operating in that location, from that bus for two to three years. News 12 gives us this video report from the scene.

Please click the images to enlarge.

[Hat Tip: Yeshiva World.]

UPDATE 4-1-07: VosIzNeias is reporting that the matzah bus caught on fire today. It was being used to illegally bake matzot.

Comments

[shmuel]

Unbelievable chutzpah, chillul Hashem, danger to fellow citizens...just another day in Charedi-ville.

[shmuel]

Shmarya, totally not related: have you seen www.amashgiachspeaksout.com about the kashrut accusations against Le Marais? The OU says things are ok there. Gil's blog has it. How could you have missed this story?

The story repeated about Rav Auerbach & championed by Shmarya is not true.

This is what a talmid of Rav Auerbach writes in response:

Inaccurate to say the least, outright lies would be more descriptive.

The name of the journal was Noam. Moriah only came into existence in the late 70's.

He never withdrew the Teshuva, even though the Brisker Rov strongly opposed it, and made his opposition known.

The Teshuva which my father has, depended on two other prominent Poskim coming out and supporting it, which never happened probably due to the opposition, so it was never used Lemayseh.

Reb Shlomo Zalman was Mekayem a Neder he made to publish the 150 page Teshuva nonetheless, as a Zechus for a Refuah Shelaimah for an open brain surgery to remove a tumor, that Reb Shlomo Zalman underwent in Hadassah Hospital in 1951.

He was not afraid, besides the thugs never existed and are a figment of this guy's imagination, mistaking the verbal but not written opposition registered by those within the small Halachic community of the time, with the physical. None of this ever went public with full size notices as is so common today.

When the Minchas Shlomo vol 1 was published, Reb Shlomo Zalman opted not to include this Teshuva, as since then, the problem can be corrected by medication. At the time there was no solution for the problem, and Reb Shlomo Zalman felt that Mishum Mitzva Rabba, he did not have a choice other than find a solution. His Achrayus as a Poisek, although he was only forty years old at the time, is what can be learnt from this story.

I hope this clarifies the matter somewhat.

Goes to show, don't believe a word of what is posted, even if it comes from a so called Blogsite!

[frumbabe]

how origionally primitive and insane! check out my new post. thanx

[Schneur]

Charedim especially of the Chasidic stripe have no respect for any legal system , not even the Jewish Civil code the Choshen Mishpat which is just not studied. The CM has plenty to say about neighbors, property rights, "sakanot " and all sorts of things .
Because of their almost total ignornace of secular studies and more importantly their total disdain and bittul for anything non religious they have no regard for dangers involved in electricity, cars, cigarettes fire, gas . To them its just something you use . They do not realize the power of fire, energy etc. Its the same with medicine they have no idea what it takes to develop a new drug , they just know the finished product.
I am not absolving them , but thats the state of affairs in a scoiety completely disdainful of everything not Jewish and most things Jewish as well.

[Shmarya]

"The story repeated about Rav Auerbach & championed by Shmarya is not true."

I do not know if it is true or not. What I do know is that I NEVER "CHAMPIONED" it. Someone left the story as a comment.

From the quality of the comment here iwould tend to believe the earlier commenter who told the story.

[Nigritude Ultramarine]

Huh? What's the problem? It's not SO bad, it's just silly goyim and their silly laws. דינא דמלכותא - דינא is only a suggestion, right?

"From the quality of the comment here iwould tend to believe the earlier commenter who told the story."

Hey Shmarya, why believe anything unless it makes Chareidim look bad? While there are "Kool Aid" drinkers who won't believe any bad news, Shmarya is inebriated with the anti-frum poison potion of antiquity.

[Shmarya]

Shmuel –

I did not miss that story. I'm not sure what to make of it, and I'm working it to see.

[Nigritude Ultramarine]

Charedim especially of the Chasidic stripe have no respect for any legal system

You mean like making a purchase at a grocery store owned by people like these and getting food stamps as change?

It was not that bad as in the original reports. It was quite safe according to the inspectors. Read today's article from CBS.

Police Shut Down Bus Converted Into Matzo-Factory
(CBS/AP) SPRING VALLEY, N.Y. A school bus that had been converted into a supersized oven for Passover matzos, complete with smokestack, exhaust fans and working fire, was fueled by gas lines illegally attached to a nearby house, authorities said Monday.

The bus, in the backyard of a residence owned by the rabbi of a Hasidic Jewish congregation, was turning out thin, crisp matzo crackers for next week's Passover holiday. The rabbi denied there was any danger, and there were indications authorities would let him off the hook after some adjustments.

Police found the bus bakery early Friday after a neighbor smelled smoke.

"Smoke was coming from the stack and there was a working fire," Sgt. Lou Scorziello of the Spring Valley police said Monday. "There certainly was the potential for an explosion."

The bus was attached by plywood to the back of the house and the oven was fueled by wood and gas from lines illegally extended from the house, said Manny Carmona, the village building enforcement
officer who joined Scorziello at the site Monday.

"There's a gas line that has not been inspected and the bus has been attached to the house in a totally illegal way," said Carmona.

However, after inspecting the inside of the house and bus on Monday, Carmona revised his assessment of the situation somewhat, telling reporters, "It's not as hazardous as it looks. The fire is contained properly."

The owner of the bus oven, Rabbi Aaron Winternitz, told reporters that he has been turning out bus matzos for his 50-member Mivtzar Hatorah congregation for the last three years.

Carmona said he would not issue a summons if Winternitz provided "clear drawings and approval by a licensed engineer" by the end of the day Monday.

"It looks safe, but you can't go on looks," Carmona said.

He also told Winternitz that the bus would have to moved back from the house. "It's too close. If something happens, it could spread to the house," Carmona said.

Winternitz said he understand all the curiosity about his "invention."

He said it wasn't the bus' first incarnation. He had bought it from someone who had converted it into a home and a carrier for a race car.

"I understand the attention. It's something new that you never saw," he told reporters gathered outside. "Inventions are exciting. People are curious."

But he adamantly denied that it posed a danger. "It's completely false."

Winternitz said he was the inventor, but an engineer had been involved.

He decided to use a bus for an oven because "school buses are made strong and safe."

The bus is used only during the Passover observance to make about 100 pounds of matzos -- or two pounds per congregant, Winternitz said.

During the weeklong Passover holiday, which begins next Monday night, observant Jews eat matzo -- unleavened bread -- to illustrate how the Israelites had no time to let their bread rise as they fled.

Carmona called the bus oven "very creative."

Asked if he'd ever seen anything like it before, the building inspector said: "Nothing close to this one."

(© 2007 CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press contributed to this report. )

[anon]

To bad this guy did not go to college and become an engineer. With his ingenuity many junk heaps would become productive.

My question is that there was a fire burning in there on Shabbos. Why?

[Shmarya]

It was Friday am, it turns out. The reporters didn't come until Saturday.

[Anon]

Do any of you know how expensive fire insurance is for a real matzah bakery? The first thing the insurance company asks is what you intend to do in the building. When they hear that you will light bonfires in the building on a daily basis the anti-semites, for no good reason, decide to increase the fire insurance cost. The bus was a great idea, if it blows up you collect on the auto insurance policy. No auto insurance company ever asked on their application whether you intend to light fires on the bus. Whoever masered on this matzah bus just ruined it for the rest of us. Now we need to think of some other shtick.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Did the bus have a mechitza?

[Isa]

Regarding:
""""Now we need to think of some other shtick""""

How about a 'sauna'

[YUGUY]

I find this funny as hell. Sorry.

[Yochanan Lavie]

"How about a 'sauna'?" Why not a mikvah? We can have the world's first Mikvah Mobile.

[Anon]

Mikvah mobile is not a bad idea. The question is to we need to have a mechitza or is it sufficient to just have the women go to the back of the bus?

[JewishCynic]

Nice to see this report especially at this time of year when it seems that half of Monsey's hassidim are out schnoring. Here's a guy who used his yiddiche cup (and physical labor) to bake matzos. Yeah it probably doesn't meet code but some thought was given toward safety - it isn't the usual flaunting of the law for profit. If he were a real Monsey macher he'd be collecting gov't subsidies for running a bus company, for feeding the poor and for powering his vehicle with alternative fuel!
BTW the usual Pesach/fire story this time of year concerns biyur chometz fires geting out of control.

[Anon]

--If he were a real Monsey macher he'd be collecting gov't subsidies for running a bus company, for feeding the poor and for powering his vehicle with alternative fuel!--

Why are you so quick to be choished this fellow for being such an idiot? Maybe he was running a matzoh baker and collecting government subsidies for running a bus company. At least be dan him a little bit l'kaf zechus that he was getting government subsidiaries for using alternative fuel. After all he was using wood.

[Nigritude Ultramarine]

BTW the usual Pesach/fire story this time of year concerns biyur chometz fires geting out of control.

Don't forget the drapes going up in flames during bedikas chometz.

[cowfy]

to all the eruv rov trash out there.your dearly beloved ny times had a positiv article on this motza bus.so all you zombies relax.your leader has no hate for this bus.

[Nigritude Ultramarine]

Speaking of school buses:

Lakewood Chareidim Devising Plan to Pay Jewish School Bus Drivers More Than Gentile Drivers

דינא דמלכותא דינא -- Who needs it?

[Matzah bakers local 101]

Shmarya,
With anti-semites like you, who needs Nazis? Here's the bottom line after the bakery was down for one day. Always be sure to condemn the jew don't bother waiting for things like facts.

Here's the updated news clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YFN9G3kCbM

[Shmarya]

I watched yoiur video.

What is the difference between an oven in an RV and this, you ask?

The gas in RVs (and in the other cases you mention) is propane that comes from specially made tanks that are fire and explosion resistant. There is no connection of live gas to a building.

Also, a matzah oven runs at a much higher temperature than a regular oven. What you have in that bus is a matzah oven, fuled by a wood fire, within feet of a live gas line. That is a real sakana.

The very fact that you do not understand this shows that you are ignorant, probably due the the education you got from your haredi school.

Now, a bit more for your foolish mind to process:

Building codes exist. The bus bakery violates those codes. The codes have penalties for violation written in them.

The owner is being forced to disconnect the gas line and movve the bus at leat 10 feet from the building.

In other woirds, your "report" is bullshit.

If you and your black-garbed friends don't want to follow the law, move away – please! Buy your own island and misbehave there.

[Shmarya]

From yesterday's NY Post:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/03282007/news/regionalnews/cooking_up_matzo_deal_regionalnews_leonard_greene.htm

It's a compromise worthy of King Solomon.
If a Rockland County rabbi can produce the paperwork showing his school-bus oven is safe, then officials won't force him to move the matzo-mobile until after Passover.
But the clock is ticking on Aaron Winternitz, who for three years has baked maztos in a converted school bus behind his Spring Valley home. Passover begins Monday at sundown.
Village officials put the brakes on Winternitz's bus bakery after neighbors complained of the smoke.
Buildings inspector Manny Carmona also said the bus was too close to the rabbi's home. But Carmona said he would allow Winternitz to move the bus farther away at a later time if he can provide written safety assurances from an engineer. It's still shut down, despite the claims of the so-called Matzoh Bakers Local 101.

Here is VosIzNeias a few minutes ago:
Spring Valley, NY - Village officials are working with the rabbi to enable him to make his matzo in a makeshift bakery in his back yard without violating village code, but some of the violations will be resolved just after the Passover holiday.
Village Deputy Building Inspector Manny Carmona ordered Rabbi Aaron Winternitz to stop baking the matzo last week after he found several code violations related to the operation as was reported here on Vos Iz Neias: .
Since then, the rabbi has capped gas lines and removed wiring that connected the oven to his house, the most serious safety violation, Carmona said. The rabbi is endeavoring to provide the village with an engineering certification that the oven was safely constructed, Carmona said.
A third issue - the proximity of the oven to the house - can be resolved after the Passover holiday, Carmona said.Haredim lie as a baseline and scream antisemitism as a baseline. Sick.

[Me]

Shmaraya,
You ignorant, arrogant,anti-semitic bastard. Pick up the phone and call the Spring Valley Building Department 845-352-1100. Look at some of the positive stories in CBS or NY TIMES instead of the worst mis-informed error laden one that you could find.
1) The difference between gas and LP is that the gas comes from a pipe and LP is stored in tank. If you have a fire, unless you have a high concentration due to closing all the windows and doors, the gas leak or pipe will burn. The windows are opened, the fans are running to keep the baking area cool and to cool the matzos coming out of the oven. There could not have been an explosion. LP on the other hand, all your fuel is contained in one place. If that overheats, even with the built in pressure relief valve, that is a much more serious chance explosion.
2) The above point is moot. The "live gas line" was shut off. The Matzah oven is a woodburning oven. Thats what the pile of firewood in picture is for.

[Me]

Continued from above

3) I didn't want to bore you with details of 3 layers of 2400 degree insulation, fire brick construction, and a stainless steel inner liner in the bus. The NY Times which as bad as they are, are less anti semitic than you, had a very favorable review. The outside of the bus is cool to the touch. The inspector was very impressed when he found out the details.
4) I know more about engineering than you will ever know.
5) If you want to be a proper precise nazi, why don't you post copies of the violation notices, tickets, lawsuits, etc. That presumingly would have been filed if there was a crime, an infraction, or a violation of the building code. It's all covered by the FOIL (no pun intended during the pesach season. It just came out like that.) (Freedom Of Information Law for the uninformed) If the guy is menacing his neighborhood, he would be charged with something. Put up or shut. The address of the Spring Valley PD and City offices is:
200 North Main Street,
Spring Valley, NY 10977.

[Shmarya]

The Times story is three days old, and it confirms NONE of what you say. It QUOTES the rabbi but has no confirmation of the rabbi's claims.

Meanwhile and more recently local coverage makes it clear that:

1. There is no baking going on now because the town shut down the bus bakery.

2. The bus will need to be moved away from the house to MEET BUILDING AND FIRE SAFETY CODES.

3. The baking will not resume until the rabbi PROVES HIS CLAIMS.

In other words, you either do not read very well, do not care about the truth or a re simple malicious – or, perhaps, all three of those together.

[Shmarya]

And it would be FOIA, the Freedom of Information Act that you are refering to. And FOIA requests take MONTHS to go through channels. I've done it and I know.

[Shmarya]

And here is the newest news story I can find. It was published this (Friday) morning:
http://www.nynews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070330/NEWS03/703300378

Spring Valley rabbi faces safety deadline for matzo-baking bus

Rabbi Aaron Winternitz's time is running out if he wants to bake Passover matzo inside the converted school bus attached to his Wilsher Avenue house.

As of yesterday afternoon, the rabbi had not yet met all the Building Department's demands before it would consider lifting an order shutting down the makeshift bakery. Passover will start Monday evening.

Extension cords and other wiring were disconnected but remained attached, and combustible materials were still near the bus and house, Deputy Building Inspector Manny Carmona said.

While the rabbi disconnected the gas lines from the house to the bakery bus, the lines had not been removed, Carmona said.

"He has not finished everything I requested him to do," Carmona said. "I am giving him until" today.

Before the village will even consider lifting its shutdown order, the rabbi must provide Carmona with engineering certification that the large oven was properly designed and installed safely.

If all that is met, Carmona said, the village will give him a pass this year on moving the bus at least 10 feet from the house and allow him to bake matzo.

"We're trying to work with him and if everything is safe, we would reconsider," Carmona said. "He may not be able to provide the information until after the holiday. He's trying."

The rabbi could face a code violation if the wires and combustible materials are not removed, Carmona said.

Today is probably the rabbi's last chance since Carmona doesn't work weekends. Saturday is the sabbath and the rabbi and his congregants can't work or bake.

So, if baking approval does come, Winternitz and his congregations are facing a last-minute challenge.…So the only "antisemites" here appear to haredi commenters on this blog.

[Me]

Shmarya,
The only thing wrong with your 1, 2, & 3, is that I was there and you weren't. I take it you still haven't called the building inspector or the town attorney as I did. I did see the story in the local paper, the Journal News, and I was dismayed, but the reporter doesn't say when he last looked at the bakery bus or when he last spoke to the town official.

I know you think you know everything, those of us that really do know everything, find that particularly irritating. Allow me to enlighten you. For your edification, The FOIA is a federal law under which one can have access to certain federal records and documents. It has no application to any agency other than federal government agencies. You cannot make a FOIA request from your local town government. The FOIL is a New York State law. It applies only to (state and local) government agencies in New York State.
Here you can find the NYS FOIL:
Search New York Laws Here Use search term "Freedom of Information Law.

If you need more information on the NYS FOIL
This website should answer your questions.

And, in order to make your wretched life easier, here is a website
that will generate a preprinted FOIL letter.

P.S. I do appreciate that this discuss is held openly without censorship. Have a good Shabbos. I know where I'll be baking matzah erev Pesach.

[Shmarya]

You'll note that "Me" claims to have information that contradicts several different media reports. We'll know by Monday if and when the bakery reopened and what restrictions are put on the operation.

I think it clear that the bakery was closed Thursday just as I claimed. Was it reopened sometime Friday? Or did the rabbi continue to bake illegally? We'll soon know.

Bottom line: "Me" was wrong about the bakery operating (leagally) on Thursday. We'll soon know if he is wrong about Friday, as well.

[Shmarya]

Here's the latest update from the JournalNews, from Friday afternoon:http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070330/NEWS03/703300454/1019/SPECIAL02

Spring Valley rabbi can't bake matzo in school bus bakery

Rabbi Aaron Winternitz can't bake matzo for Passover this year in his school bus bakery attached to his Wilsher Avenue house.

The Building Department is not convinced the oven is safe.

Deputy Building Inspector Manny Carmona this afternoon issued the rabbi a letter telling him he could not use the oven. The rabbi couldn't provide an engineer's certification that the make-shift bakery was safe and had been properly installed.

"My department is not satisfied this oven is safe to use," Carmona said. "He did as much as he could."

The school bus oven was discovered last Friday when a neighbor called the police after smelling smoke. The smoke was coming from the metal stack atop the bus in the backyard of the rabbi's house.

The rabbi said he had been baking matzo for nearly three years.So, what's the story with "Me," the haredi commenter who was so quick to call names? He's lying or delusional, or both. FOIL (or FOIA) requests are not filled with rapidity. There is no way he filed one and got information with in a few days.

Simply, he's lying. He may have received information from the rabbi or someone close to the rabbi, and belived that information to be true. He may have seen the oven and personally declared it safe.

But, clearly, village officials do not agree with him. The rabbi could not produce the documents necessary to continue baking – engineer's plans, etc. And everything the village did to try to help the rabbi out still could not overcome that.

[jimmieboy]

This is a great exchange. Thank you for the excrutiating pain in my back from laughing so hard. You guys sure do know how to argue!

I have a few questions:
Is there really a Matzah Local 101?
Couldnt matzah be baked in an outdoor stove, like an outdoor pizza oven? If so, why not do that, build in in the backyard like a big barbeque, set it sufficiently far from the house. Done. No problems with the code officials.

Anyway, word around town is that a new musical childrens TV show is being created entitled "Everyone Ride On The Matza Bus".

Best regards, and thanks, I'll be back to see how this all pans out.

[JewishCynic]

Just go to www.nyjournalnews.com and hit the tab for "Rockland".
So he fired up the oven knowing the village did not permit it - case closed. I wanted to give this guy the benefit of the doubt, even a positive for his creativity and effort but he just goes on to reinforce Shmarya's viewpoint.
BTW I see in the Journal that the Neturi Karta fire may not be arson. So if it wasn't the hand of man does that mean it was a higher being?...