Inside Le Affair Le Marais

By now, many of you are aware of the controversy surrounding the kashrut of Le Marais, a popular French-style steakhouse in Manhattan under the kosher supervision of the OU. In brief, a mashgiach has made serious allegations against a chef and against the OU. He alleges the OU is covering up the chef's misdeeds (which are supposed to range from ordering non-kosher shellfish to bringing (and using) in dairy margarine.

The OU strongly denies the allegation and seems convincing in its refutation of the mashgiach's charges.

But there is more to this story. The mashgiach is Isaac "Yitzchak" Bitton. Yesterday, the (non-Jewish) owners of Le Marais filed a $10 million lawsuit against Mr. Bitton for defamation of character. (Here is the court filing, in PDF, courtesy of L: Download lemarais_lawsuit.pdf )

I was asked earlier this week about Mr. Bitton. Before I saw the court filing, I could not comment – now I can. Mr. Bitton lives in Crown Heights. His address in the filing is on Eastern Parkway. A quick search of the Shmais Anash list shows only one Yitzchak Bitton in Crown Heights. The address is different – a less prestigious building – but people do move. So, it seems the Yitzchak Bitton of Le Marias is the same Yitzchak Bitton I thought he was.

Yitzchak Bitton's story is sad. He is one of the very best rock drummers in the world. In France, before becoming Chabad, he led a band, Jackie and the Variations (mentioned in this Wikipedia article simply as the Variations; see 1970s before punk), which kept the Beatles out of the top spot on the French pop charts. He gave up his 'sinful' life and moved to Crown Heights. He learned, and he eventually formed a band Raya Mehemena, which was one of the best live bands I ever heard, religious or not. He played gigs and released an album that included a version of Lecha Dodi that is perhaps the single most beautiful contemporary religious song I have  ever heard.

But the haredi and Chabad worlds (apart from BTs) were not ready for real musical talent. Bookings were not frequent enough to pay the rent, and the Rebbe would not  give his blessing for the type of shows Matisyahu now does, surfing mosh pits and dancing in front of and sometimes with women. (This is a problem many BT musicians faced in the 1980s and early 90s.) So Yitzchak Bitton sold cameras for a living. He apparently went from that to serving as a mashgiach. Last I heard he still played gigs, as well.

Some of you may know Yitzchak Bitton from another venue, so to speak. There is an iconic picture of the Crown Heights riots (posted above, please click to enlarge). The man lying on the ground is Yitzchak Bitton. that's his son, now a shaliach, I believe, crying next to him. Bitton was felled by a projectile during the riots. I was told at the time that his injuries were not serious, but I do not know this first hand.

I don't know whether Yitzchak Bitton is correct or if the OU is correct, although, on the surface at least, the OU's presentation and refutation seem convincing.

But this I do know – Yitzchak Bitton is a victim. He is part of system that cast aside his special talents and left him without a viable career. At the same time, he's had to watch poseurs like Matisyahu benefit from a Chabad PR machine and leniencies in Jewish law no one would have allowed Yitzchak Bitton, or Avi Piamenta, Peter Himmelman, or many others. In other words, Bitton's stridency may be a result of this treatment, and the years of financial and emotional deprivation it surely caused.

A very wise rabbi, Yizchok Berkowitz, who was at one time the posek of Aish HaTorah, spoke at a Jerusalem conference for budding and current kiruv workers sponsored by Heritage House. Among the things he said was that if you Rabbi Kiruv Worker are going to make a person frum, you have to worry about his/her income and talents. Is she an actress? Be prepared to promote women only plays. A singer? Women only concerts. Is he an artist, a musician, a poet, a writer? If his job cannot be continued because it is incompatible with Orthodoxy, you Rabbi Kiruv Worker must find a way for him to use his talents and keep his profession, but within Yiddishkeit.

The vast majority of kiruv workers present objected. Why? To them, even a frum life of poverty is better than a non-Orthodox lifestyle. The money, the creativity – that doesn't really matter. Rav Berkowitz would have none of it, and told these kiruv workers in no uncertain terms that this was their responsibility, whether they accepted it or not.

By and large, the kiruv-outreach world, including Chabad, even including Aish HaTorah itself, does not follow Rav Berkowitz. But Rav Berkowitz is a wise man; beyond that, a very caring man. And he knew the truth, even if they did not. If you bring someone to Orthodoxy like Yitzchak Bitton, and you rob him of what makes him special, makes him what he is, you have done deep and lasting damage.

Yitzchok Bitton should be leading his band on world tours and perhaps spending his off time teaching music in Chabad schools. Instead, he sweats away in kitchens, checking lettuce for bugs. That is a tragedy. And that tragedy may be the real story behind this whole sad affair Le Marais.

More on the internal Chabad controversy surrounding Matisyahu's live performances can be seen here or downloaded as a PDF here:

Download chabad_frum_music.pdf

JEWISH TRIVA ALERT: The name Le Marais comes from a district of Paris carved out of marshland in the 12th century –  le marais means the marsh. It is now a center of Jewish life. For example, Goldenberg's famous kosher restaurant is located there. But the ever helpful Wikipedia has this interesting bit of triva to link the original Le Marais with rock music: In 1971 Jim Morrison of the Doors died in 17 Rue Beautrellis in Le Marais.

Who lived at 17 Rue Beautrellis in 1971? I believe it was the apartment of Meir Abehsera's brother. Meir – a friend of Bob Dylan and many other rock musicians, artists and writers – functioned for many years as a near-rebbe for Chabad BTs, including fellow Moroccan Yitzchak Bitton.

Comments

[anon]

The OU's post is not convincing. If they had the chef fired and made trouble they would lose the business. How much the OU was paid for its hashgocha I am sure will come out at or before this trial. My humble guess is that they only paid a fraction of this sum to the mashgichim and kept the rest for themselves.

Please get Rabbi Bitton's address and post it and ENCOURAGE your readers to donate to this man's poor defense fund.

Understand that all the professional chefs that I have ever come across (I am in the food service business for many years) that don't respect the mashgiach will look to substitute butter for margarine etc. They pride themselves on being top banana and nobody is going to tell them what they are going to put into their creation. They are artists and they are the boss.

My contact with business owners and OU is a business and a great sales organization THEY DON'T WANT TO LOSE PAYING ACCOUNTS AND WILL DO MOST ANYTHING TO ASSURE KEEPING IT. My point is that the OU should have hired an independent agency to investigate if they did not trust the mashgiach. Did I just say trust their mashgiach?

Do you mean that the OU sends out mashgichim they don't trust? They had to investigate his claim and undermined his credibility.

I read the same report and no longer trust the OU.

Send money and help find this guy a lawyer.

MONEY NEEDS TO BE RAISED IMMEDIATELY.

[Yochanan Lavie]

My prayers go out to Mr. Bitton and his family- whoever is right. The OU is generally reliable, but not perfect. It is also a big business. BTW, I think Modern Orthodox are more tolerant of lifestyle/career choices. But I'm sure that's not always the case now that they're looking over their right shoulder all the time. MO should have done more outreach- now they are the ones whose children are turning against them.

UOJ has a lot of information that makes Bitton more credible than the OU. There is a long history of scandals at Le Marais before the OU took over from OK. Levana's has no credibility as the Lubavitch owners were caught with treif years ago, a story which the OU pretends never happened. Also, Le Marais used to be a thriving Jewish neighborhood. UOJ has a link to a Wall St Journal article that it has been taken over by gays.

[none]

You can't be sure it's the same Bitton. Furthermore, how typical of you to go from a possible kashrus scandal to Chabad bashing. Will you ever grow up?

[avrohom]

you are sick with the malady of antisemitism. Perhaps the bt's feel that their lives are empty without torah and yiddihskeyt. They believe in the G-d of Israel, the Land of Israel and the Jewish people. DOn't make them for stupid people. IT would be better when you would preface all your goebell's propaganda with a disclaimer: you are a jew who converted from Judaism so people can honestly put things in perspective.

[Shmuel Bet]

Berkowitz is no tzaddik.... he may have made some good points at that meeting, but he also forces battered women to reconcile numerous times, with unrecalcitrant wifebeaters.

"DOn't make them for stupid people.'

They're not stupid. Perhaps tragic.

[anonymous]

You have a strange sense of imagination. Yea right, "Jackie and the Variations, kept the Beatles off the top of the French charts". You ought to become a fiction writer.

[Yerushalmi]

Shmarya,

I may not always appreciate your tone when you report the latest story of the day.

That said, the way in which you presented this showed of no "grudge" that people often complain that you have.

Rahter, it was mature and even keeled.

Personally, as someone who attends R. Berkowitzs shul in Sanhedria Murchevet this is very much his stance on outreach -- and like R. Yaakov Horowitz is a OU Jew that should be respected to the umptenth degree.

To the poster who alleges" Berkowitz is no tzaddik.... he may have made some good points at that meeting, but he also forces battered women to reconcile numerous times, with unrecalcitrant wifebeaters."

I personally know a woman in the neighborhood who he assisted in getting out of an abusive relationship--so I don't know why you'd allege this...

Once again great and even post Shmarya -- I believe it drove home your message louder because of the lack of rage

[Shmarya]

Yerushalmi _

Please say hello to Rav Berkowitz for me. He's a very good man. Orthodoxy needs more like him.

[YOSEF GRANT]

Shmarya,as someone who basicly never agrees with your view points ,I was pleasently surprised to read this latest post.It is indeed iresponsable to be mekarev people without also insuring that once frum they will be able to use thier skills to earn aparnash.

[Ben Qor'ha (Baldwin).]

OU is a business, says asno.n in his respond.
so are the Lubavitchers, except the later are also cut throat savages.
i have seen it happen in a city, that had kosher hashgacha for an israeli national airline, the devils kept pounding at the airline to get the account, first with the "required common denominator of chassidishe shechita" then they resorted to lies and outright slander against the mashgichim -true yerei shamayim- until they got the account.
why all this effort? to acquire more visibility and erase manifestations of true jewish orthodoxy.
people who travelled to that city by air were of the well heeled type and they wanted to gain access to their wallets, what better way than thru the stomach and @ somebody else's expenses?
same thing with le marais, it's the best and most expensive 4 toques restaurant in america. they will save no effort to replace OU as "mashgichim of record".
i don't put it past them to have planted that poor soul bitton.
a- le marais owner, will probably find those sinister clowns very open to "cooperate" if he tried.
b- orthodoxy should proclaim these clowns treif until they disband and stop this chillul hashem.

Le Marais is NOT the best restaurant. Bistro Grill is modeled the same way with French style aged steaks etc, and does a much better job with food, presentation / ambiance and profesionalism.

[Ma Rabbi]

Yitzcak biton, the musician was not felled by a "projectile" He was at that time working as the manager of the hotel in Crown Heights. During the riot, the schvartes broke into the hotel and beat him, nearly to death. As his then 12 year old son stood by helplessly.
If indeed, he is the Mashgiach in the story, I believe him as I know him to be a sincere and honest person.

[Shmarya]

That of course accounts for his lying in the street. Yrue, it does seem to be in front of that "hotel," but he's on the sidwalk, not inside. And I believe the original caption for the picture as it ran at the time of the riots was "Felled by a projectile …"

[Neo-Conservaguy]

The text reads like a soap opera, but I don't have to know the people involved to decide my feelings about this case. The simple question I ask myself about the OU is: can I trust them after they blatantly lied about the schita at Agriprocessors? Do I trust an organization of rabbis that looked me in the eye and said things to the effect of, "the PETA video is a lie, what you think you see isn't real, those animals are actually dead and walking around for a few minutes"? Can I trust an organization that brings in untold (literally) zillions of dollars for kashruth supervision to be truly neutral in such situations? The answer, sadly, is: no.

[Ma Rabbi]

The reason he was lying in the street is because they dragged him outside. I dont care what you read. I remember what happened to him.

[Shmarya]

I'm only arguing that my contention has a basis, not that it is correct.

[Shmarya]

From the NYTimes (courtesy of JE): http://select.nytimes.com/search/restricted/article?res=F00612F7345E0C708CDDAD0894DB494D81

Vivid New Court Statements Detail Crown Heights Clash

By JOSEPH P. FRIED
Published: April 3, 1993

Several Hasidim said in the affidavits that police officers stood by and watched assaults without intervening, and some said officers said they were ordered not to use force against those engaging in the violence.

"The police did not intervene as the crowd surrounded my son and me and savagely beat us with their fists, bricks and bottles," Issac Bitton said in his affidavit. "I blacked out after I was pummeled in the head with a brick or rock."

So it would seem they were on the street – the police were not inside homes and buildings. Was the brick or whatever thrown? It seems not, so the use of "projectile" appears to be inaccurate. It is easy to see how, in the rush of the moment, the mistake was originally made.

[avrohom]

in addition, your antisemitism knows no boundaries: on the one hand you decry the state of Bitton not being able to use his talents (in a goyishe enviroment) otoh you use the same platform to blast Matisyahu and Chabad for being able to use his talents! SO what is it? YOU ARE AN ANTISEMITE!

[Avrohom]

And at the same time you are ignorant about Pianmenta : who is very well to do using his talents to bring YIDDISHE JOY to Jews and is very very popular! YOU ANTISEMITE!

[Shmarya]

No, Avrohom, you are a very poor reader.

[Shmarya]

Re: Piamenta. I knew Avi, back when I was Chabad. Piamenta does pretty well, primarily because he plays mostly in Israel, where he is based.

[Shmarya]

You might also try reading (gasp!) the linked page for the argumets INSIDE Chabad against Matisyahu.

[DK]

Hey -- Radloh over on Seven Fat Behaimeh claims the guy was a failed musician, and claims he knows this firsthand. Is that possible?

scotty, the antisemite,

i know how to read you well enough that your whole metzius (everything you write and think) is to bring false antisemitic hatred at yidden. I also know that you know how to contradict yourself in the very same sentence abee you you give another jab.

In any event: you main hatred thesiss on this antsenticrampage was the terrible misfortune that we are mekarev talented people and make them lose their talent, while at the very same bredth you must acknowledge that this is not true regarding some people, at least the fanous one s(matisyahu and piamenta) so you go on a tirade on matisyahu shteching chabad again.

but you cannot run away from the fact that these people are able to reconcile both world and be good at it.

your links have got nothing to do with this point. Obviously there are legitimate discussions whether some of the talents are used against halacha and obviously someone who beleives in the G-d of ISrael nad His Torah and knowignly came backto yiddishkeyt with love cannot stand to live the goyishe empty life that he lived in the past (similar to the lfie that you live etc.) so that is not an option. THe fact remains that espeically in chabad there are outlets for people to continue to use their talents in music in a way that is consonant with halacha (at least that is the aspiration) and your tirades are just: TIRADES OF AN ANTISEMITE!

[mamish mishige]

David:
radloh wrote that he failed in crown heights not earlierrr, c his post

[Shmarya]

"but you cannot run away from the fact that these people are able to reconcile both world and be good at it.

your links have got nothing to do with this point."

Piamenta generally within the constraints set down by the Rebbe and Matistyahu way outside those constraints.

And the link you deride? It is all about exactly this.:
http://www.geocities.com/bochrimlist/comments.html

[Hmmm]

Could it be that Lubab inc, through its 'kosher' supervision 'authority' subsidiary,the OK Kosher Labs, wants to get their hands back onto Le Marais?
I never trust Lubab inc.

[Shmarya]

This would seem to be a stupid way to go about it.

[Ben Qor'ha (Baldwin)]

an asno.nymous, who doesn't even identify himself as such, complains of antisemitism. and i ask myself: why? is he semitic at all?

[Ben Qor'ha (Baldwin)]

asno.nymous,
what is yiddishkeyt?
is it yiddish speakers flying kites?
and why should jews be concerned?

[Ben Qor'ha (Baldwin)]

This would seem to be a stupid way to go about it.
says rabbenu shmarya.

stupid or not, it is the way they often handle things. they must have a scam or 2 up their sleeve, that normal people don't think about.
first would be, to threaten the business almost out of existence. then they show the way to return back to business with their help (darki- thru me).
a person doing the business with no particular creed to uphold, read a gentile proprietor victim or a totally secular jews, have nothing to lose by embracing them.
and sometimes the devils win, i have seen it done and not only in kashrut.
mafiosi are tzadiqim gmurim in comparison!

[Chelmerrebbe]

I am so sick of people freaking out and calling Shmarya an anti-semite. Wake up! He's a concerned Jew who writes this way out of deep worry over the state of the frum world. If you penguins were at all observant (pun intended) you'd worry too. Now I'm not saying you have to agree with all that is said on this blog. I don't. I'm sure Shmarya doesn't expect you to. The fact that you are so uncomfortable with his right to express his oppinion is telling. Why are you so scared of what he sais? Why do you have to be so hatefull? If you were 'right' and 'the bigger man' you would sigh and post a respectful rebuttle. But you don't do that. You turn to deep disrespect of a member of your own holy, nation.
You accuse Shmarya of hate, but you talk about goyim as if they were animals (get to know a couple and you'll realize that they're NOT all little Eichmans). And to call Shmarya an anti-semite is an insult to the memory of our brothers and fathers who suffered and perished at the hands of real anti-semites. How quickly some of you haredim forget...

[avrohom]

ber koprcha,

you are indeed a descendant of korach who aligns with antisemites to besmirch observant jews. Anyone who aligns himself with someone who is destined (not only to raise issues, but his main itnent) to besmirch all rabbis with evil intentions is antisemite.

While he and you and other copycats of scotty, think you own the copyright to call "racists" "bigots", others have not forgotten that there are many "Erev ravs" and antsemites as our prophets said "meharssayiyich umachrivayich mimech yetzeu"! SOney yisroel that you are

[avrohom]

ber koprcha,

you are indeed a descendant of korach who aligns with antisemites to besmirch observant jews. Anyone who aligns himself with someone who is destined (not only to raise issues, but his main itnent) to besmirch all rabbis with evil intentions is antisemite.

While he and you and other copycats of scotty, think you own the copyright to call "racists" "bigots", others have not forgotten that there are many "Erev ravs" and antsemites as our prophets said "meharssayiyich umachrivayich mimech yetzeu"! SOney yisroel that you are

[Chelmerrebbe]

*Sigh*
I'd like to hear something other than baseless, hateful statements from you, Avi. Either learn to have a conversation or stop talking.

[anon]

Fantastic post from the yeshiva world blogspot response--

To 1:06

"Oh wait, you can't falsely accuse someone of something under "free speech", and if you do you have to pay."

A civil suit for slander has to meet several criteria.

1. The Plaintiff has to prove malicious intent. Considering that Rabbi Bitton's job was to protect the kashrus of the Jewish public, how would you PROVE that the motives behind Rabbi Bitton's accusations regarding the kashrus of Le Marais are PURELY malicious in intent?

2. The second thing that the plaintiffs must prove is that the accusations are false beyond any shadow of a doubt.

The owners of LeMarais cannot PROVE beyond any doubt that the kashrus accusations made by Rabbi Bitton were false.

TO the contrary since Rabbi Bitton was hired to be an agent of OU SPECIFICALLY to judge the kosher status of the restaurant during his shift his negative judgments of Le Marais or its employees represent "absolute privilege".

Rabbi Bitton was the only person there at the time of each specific incident who would be qualified to give expert testimony regarding the kashrus status of the restaurant at the time that incidents happened so there is no way to bring in opposing expert testimony to support the OU's assertion that the restaurant was kosher at the time. The whole concept of a Mashgiach is that we trust his testimony absolutely regarding the kashrus of the place. This why the principle of "absolute privilege" applies in this case.

Rabbi Bitton has only written about incidents that happened during the time of his employment by the OU, during the time when he was employed as the agent of the OU, specifically charged with the job of determining the kashrus status of the restaurant.

It is my opinion that if Le Marais feels as though they have been harmed by an agent of the company that they hired to administer a kashrus program that Le Marais should seek damages from the company and not the employee as the employee was only doing the job for which he was hired at the time, which was to judge the kashrus status of the restaurant at the time of his watch. It was the OU who hired, trained and installed Rabbi Bitton in the position of sole judge of the kashrus status of the restaurant during his shift.

3.Specific damages have to be proven. The owners of Le Marais cannot PROVE that they have suffered 10 million in damages and that it is a direct result of Rabbi Bitton's blog?

Personally I have always noted that kosher consumers eat out much less often before Pesach as the expenses of making the holiday are significant for everyone. An audit of receipts for the past 10 years since the restaurant has been open would show seasonal fluctuations in receipts. There are many reasons one could attribute to Le Marais's alleged drop in receipts, perhaps an article in the NY Times about the dangers of red meat. Proving beyond any doubt that a specific news article (such as a blog)is solely responsible for a drop in receipts is nearly impossible.

This is a frivolous lawsuit filed simply to harass and intimidate Rabbi Bitton. Surely the attorney who filed this suit knows how absurd it would be to try to collect 10 million dollars from a Mashgiah. How would you propose to do that, sell his organs???

The OU seems to be very concerned about defending a Gentile chef from allegations that might cost him his job, even at the expense of the kosher consumer. Why aren't they defending their employee against a frivolous lawsuit that he surely does not have the means to defend himself against???

March 27, 2007 4:19 PM
Anonymous said...

Bittons claims are bull. Bitton deserves to be sued.

March 27, 2007 7:04 PM
Anonymous said...

To 1:06

"BTW, did Bitton claim to have a DIN TORAH against the OU? "

The Gentile ownership of Le Marais is suing Rabbi Bitton.
Why is it relevant whether or not Rabbi Bitton has a Din Torah against the OU.

"Did he qupte which Rav advised him that "Torah law" required his lashon harah and motzei shem rah?"

Chofetz Chaim Shemirat Halashon Chapter 9 details the circumstances when one is REQUIRED to inform.

Kashrus is one of the situations in which the one who knows has a halachic obligation to inform

Rabbi Bitton had a halachic obligaton to inform/warn the public of a serious kashrus violation if he was aware of one.

It is not Lashon Hara to report a kashrus violation because the speech is l'shem mitzvah. Even if Rabbi Bitton were mistaken, his intentions are clearly l'shem mitzvah so it cannot be Lashon Hara. One of the requirements of Lashon Hara is that the speaker's intent be one of malice.

Speech can only be lashon hara if it is true. The Gentile ownership of Le Marais is suing Rabbi Bitton for slander which is a lie.

Also the Laws of Lashon Hara apply only to speech about other Jews. For Rabbi Bitton to say something negative about the chef cannot be lashon hara.

It is sad to watch a Yiras Shamayim Jew being persecuted by other Jews because he is practicing Judaism.

March 27, 2007 7:08 PM

[Shmarya]

To clarify:

1. To prove malice, all that is needed is to prove malice TO THE COURT's or JUDGE's SATISFACTION. The law does not demand an absolute standard of proof.

2. The accusation made must be proved false, but that proof does not need to be absolute.

3. Damages are assessed based on lost revenue, lost time, an assessment of what may be lost in the future, a descrease in the value of the business, etc.

In other words, the man who left the above comment does not know what he's talking about. Bitton is in deep trouble, unless he has the proof he claims to have. But that proof has not been made public, so we'll have to wait and see.

[avrohom]

shell marble,

You and your ilk NEVER want a conversation. You malign, defame, curse out all rabbis and all off sudden when we call you and your ilk erev rav you want a "conversation"?!?

[Lawrence M. Reisman]

Allow a lawyer to comment:

ANON: The Plaintiff has to prove malicious intent.

SHMARYA: To prove malice, all that is needed is to prove malice TO THE COURT's or JUDGE's SATISFACTION.

ME: Proof of malice is not a requirement in a defamation suit, unless the plaintiff is a "public figure" in which case either malice or reckless disregard of facts must be proven.

ANON: The second thing that the plaintiffs must prove is that the accusations are false beyond any shadow of a doubt.

SHMARYA: The accusation made must be proved false, but that proof does not need to be absolute.

ME: In a civil suit, the plaintiff must prove his case by a preponderance of the evidence. "Guilty beyond a REASONABLE doubt" applies only in criminal cases, and "beyond any shadow of a doubt" only applies in the blogosphere.

ANON: Specific damages have to be proven. The owners of Le Marais cannot PROVE that they have suffered 10 million in damages and that it is a direct result of Rabbi Bitton's blog?

SHMARYA: Damages are assessed based on lost revenue, lost time, an assessment of what may be lost in the future, a descrease in the value of the business, etc.

ME: Both of you are right, in that damages must be proved. However, that could be difficult, absent a showing of a reduction in business.

That's it for now.

[Ben Qor'ha (Baldwin)]

uvruhum keeps talking about antisemites. but he chose not to answer if he is semitic of any kind himself.
among anash, ve can discuss openly, hush, hush!
to me he comes across as a descendant of haman ha-agagi that sat in lishkas hagozees at one time (sipping gozoss as they went).
but since he didn't originate from a holy teepoh sruychoh, it took them no time to revert to amaleqizmus r'l!
i think he would be a direct descendant of torquemada und chmielizscky. oy oy oy r'l.
don't u think?

[avrohom]

no korach you ARE FROM A POSSUL ZERA and not mizera yisroel as you speak against tzadikey olom, against kedushas hatorah, and you do not have the quality of bayshon (a simon of a yid) you are antisemiticand you have mized in your essence zera nochri and therefore you align yourself with soney Hashem and soneh am yisroel.

[Hmmm]

Avrohom
Won't you shut up?You are such a predictable bore.

[avrohom]

and you are predictable racist antisemite. as long as you will be talking like an antisemite i will answer you likewise.

[Ben Qor'ha (Baldwin)]

holokhe: eissav soyneh leyaakov = what?

= self hating uvruhum!

[Shmarya]

I think any reader who choses to do so can look back at avrohom's comment in order and see that he is the first to throw stones, the first to be derogatory, the first to be truly obnoxious.

[avrohom]

korach i know you drink and smmoke a lot of pot, but eisav soneh leyaakov= is the sinoh of ESAV AND THE EREV RAV WHO END UP BEING MORE POPE THAN POPE!

scotty, you dont need to be einstein to see how YOU FOR YEARS are the most ANTISEMITE DERROGATORY TO AL RABBIS AND REBBES. JUST LOOK AT THE RECORD AND ARCHIVES FOR THE PAST 2 AND SO YEARS.

[Shmarya]

Yes, I admidt it. I am very derogatory to both rabbis and rebbes who enable abuse and abuse coverups, who commit crimes, who pervert justice, and who oppress the small and the weak. Guilty as charged.

[avrohom]

You mean to say that all rabbis and rebbes who you degraded here (and you have covered no small amount and you covered them from the times of the talmud) are in that category? And you have certanily performed "drisha vechakira" and heard their say in the matter and you have enough knowledge and experitse and divine inspiration to be able to know withouit a shadow of a doubt that all rabbis that you degrade without any compunctions (someone sneezes in google and you are all over yourself to degrade hassdim and haredim) to malign him immediately? SInce i do not suspect you of having ruach hakodesh i will say that you are infested with failed and false hatred towards anyone who beleives in the Divine Torah, Am HaKodesh, Atoh Bechartonu and that is the only explnation for your antisemitic canards and the "Explanation" you have just demonstrated to everyone (accusing all rabbisd and rebbe os f crimes coverup and abuse. Exactly a a copy of the protocols of zion).

[Oxymoron]

So here to sum it up. If Chabad will allow the BT movement to do what it wants Le Marais will be Kosher.

[Shmarya]

avrohom –

I cite evidence for every charge I make. And, yes, I do hold them to be guilty as charged – these men have systematically covered for rabbis of sexually abuse children, for men who abuse women and for men who steal. And, sometimes. these rabbis do these things themselves, too.

You never once have stood up for victims of rabbinic sex abuse or the like. Not once. All you ever do is call me names, call other commenters names, and, in general, act like an ass.

Anyone wanting to see this for themselves can simply Google your name on the "Search This Site" bar on the right side of the page, making sure to spell your name as you spell it here. Do that, and then use your find feature to find the (often multiple) comments left by avrohom. You'll quickly see that my representation of avrohom is correct.

[avrohom]

scotty,

I too have evidence that you are a systematic antisemite with a rabid hatred of observant jews doing everything and anything to smear thm with any sneeze of the internet like for instance condemning the orthodox for marshalik yhd whne in fact the haredim DID SOMTHING POSITIVE! shows what a rabid antsemite you are. And we do not need to click scotty in the bar; just a cursory reading on the antisemiticheadings would suffice.

I would like to tell you, that in my private life i actually agree with 30% of your criticisms at the establishment; that is i initially read what you wrote; but with the passage of time iu discovered tha tnothing isperfect in life and the criticizers themselves are full of it and they carry more problems than they raise (As it is said in talmud ruachhatzfonis eynoh messuvevess") so i have come to the present conclusion that its time for the blogger to realize that blogging world creats as mcuhproblems and more than it tries to resolve.

[Shmarya]

In other words, sweep the abuses under the carpet. Poor choice, my friend.

[avrohom]

no, iow, speak out about *abuses* and even the failure of the leadership to deal with them; but don't claim they are the abusers or even that they are knowingly covering it up (At least not ALL OR THE MAJORITY). calling them "racists" does not do nothing for the cause and also is not true and is wrongfully deamining and so is the issue of striping of all of them any respect (except those few whom one is clear and certain that they are actilve parts of a particular coverup).

[jacob1970]

to the author of the article you completely missed the point of the scandal and your pathetic pity is unneeded. it sound as though you mourn your own lack of acceptance from the frum community in whatever it is that you do. Rabbi Bitton has had many successful years in the jewish music world and that is besides the point. He is a man of integrity who believes in actually doing his job, which is being a mashgiach who is unafraid to put his livelihood on the line for klal yisrael so that they dont eat non-kosher food. You say that the OU's refutations are quite convincing-I strongly suggest you reread their letter and Rabbi Bitton's letter again and this time read between the lines and take take for face value everything the OU says. Quite frankly they dont have a very clean past, and as for Rabbi Bitton we can say that he is someone who is respected in the community and is a good g-d fearing jew that we should all be very proud of.

[Gilad Weinreb]

It occurs to me that the mere fact that Le Marais is open Pesach means that its kitchen, dishes and facilities will be kashered - likely Saturday night. Meaning, the kosher kitchen will be a newly kashered kitchen and, under the two current mashgichim, the food and preparations are being watched; likely with even greater concern than ever before given the controversy.

Le Marais will be reborn and the place will be brand newly kosher - again.

[Shmarya]

Avrohom –

You have never once on this site stood up for any victim or criticzed any abuser or enabler.

As for who has done what, here is a brief synopsis of the Rabbi Kolko case. You'll note many rabbis knew – none went to the police and many covered for Kolko.

And this is just one case out of dozens.

[avrohom]

Scotty,

This is because i feel that this venue is a venue that has more venom to yiddihskeyt than all the abuses together. I have voiced my opinion in other forums. But a forum that is designated to denigrate and to maliciously slander all haredi jews and rebbes and rabbonim cannot be supported at all not even subtly.

your forum is a forum that is designated to be mecharef umegadef ess Hashem and His torah.

[avrohom]

Scotty,

This is because i feel that this venue is a venue that has more venom to yiddihskeyt than all the abuses together. I have voiced my opinion in other forums. But a forum that is designated to denigrate and to maliciously slander all haredi jews and rebbes and rabbonim cannot be supported at all not even subtly.

your forum is a forum that is designated to be mecharef umegadef ess Hashem and His torah.

[Anun(ciacion)]

"But a forum that is designated to denigrate and to maliciously slander all haredi jews and rebbes and rabbonim cannot be supported at all not even subtly."

it's so bad, right?
a tzaddiq like yourself shouldn't be even reading!
why don't you practice your brand of fetishist mysogynist judaism elsewhere where your rules are upheld?

[Anun(ciacion)]

oh, i said "fetishist mysogynist judaism " right?
i just forgot to mention "brainless".

[Anun(ciacion)]

oh, i said "fetishist mysogynist judaism " right?
i just forgot to mention "brainless".

[Shmarya]

Avrohom –

It is the LEADERS of haredi Judaism who are implicated in these scandals, the very rebbes and rabbis you venerate.

Your remarks here having litttle if anything to do with the tone of this site. Your remarks are based on protecting the very corrupt leadership you wish to defend.

[Los Angeles Yid]

Shmayra,

This is one of your finest post ever well balanced a great investigation along with fact findings.

However I side with the OU.

[avrohom]

you are and remain an antisemite.YOu attack ALL Rabinate you cast aspersion on all observance because of the ills of a few even if we will accept all of your accusation when some are not true. There was a "reform" rabbi from south america caught stealing a few ties last week sand was arrested! Have we heard from you??? you antisemite! NO. Listen you can scream till tomorrow and i do feel a lot like you (that some minority do coverup and others are incompetent and others do not the power of police that exists in other systems etc) but when you malign all of the system and ALL the rabbis you have entered the area of mecharef umegadef toras Hashem and you corroborate that you need to reinvent and portray negatively oobservant jews to make you feel good about your non beleif of hashem and his torah and all the apikorsus that you proffess.

Your usage of the le marais to twist and to besmirch baaley teshuva movement shows how corrupt and racist you are when so many thoughtful and professional people change their lifestyle because they know and feel that your present lfiestyle is ugly and empty of real substance and judaism is the thing to cling them to Hashem!

[Shmarya]

LA Yid – Thank you!

Avrohom –

With a few very rare exceptiopns, I do not cover the actions of the Reform or Conservative movements. I never have, probably never will.

Further, since the Reform Movement does not believe in the divinity of the Torah or its laws, the real news is how FEW reform rabbis steal or break those laws.

On the other hand, Orthodoxy, which claims the divinity and perfection of the text and its laws, is full of theives and has a rampant rabbi-on-boy sex abuse problem. This is definately news.

[Shelby]

OK. let me lay it down for you. In the riots, Rabbi Bitton and his kid were walking home from the hotelon crown st. they were beaten by a mob on schenectady between president and caroll.

Secondly, his son is NOT a shaliach. You should get your facts straight.

the reason rabbi bitton hasnt had much success is because he is a sephardic baal teshuvah in a ghezhe ashkenazy world. MBD and avraham fried, made it right? their music is boring. but its an ashkenazy world. Piamenta is great, but he struggles. The event organizers, distributors all that, are all biased, and wouldnt let the sephardic guys, especially sephardic + lubab+ baal teshuvah. it doesnt get any worse than that..

But from what I here Bitton is working on some new stuff. I heard some and its great... so maybe the tide is about to turn.

[avrohom]

scotty,

thank you for making my point that you are a rabid antsemite racist. RAbbis in the orthodox are no more thieves than their counterparts in the reform and conservative movement and their counterparts in the secular jewish and goyish world. Look at all news papers from the whole world and see how many crimes are committed by non n charedi people. that you choose to abuse your antisemitism and rabid hatred for jews who fall prey to their evil inclination is not an attetment to their spesial status as thieves but to your rabid racist and bigotry and most importnatly ANTISEMITISM!!! don't bother eating matzoh without claining up your act in falsely portraying all observant jews with your antisemitic brush the mhty you "beleive" in is worthless with your rabid hatred at the jewish people. CONVERT TO ANY GOYISHE RELIGION PUBLICLY!!

[avrohom]

and btw, when was the last time an orthodox rabbi stole 4 pairs of ties worth 680$?

[Shmarya]

Let me help you, Avrohom –

Non-Ortthodox Jewish movements tend to fire rabbis who steal, cheat, etc. Orthodoxy tends not to do so and, with haredim, it tends to keep these theives in positions of authority – think Igud HaRabbonim or New Square.

[Shmarya]

I dunno, but I know haredi rabbis who stole $750,000 from the government (money meant for handicapped children), millions in other government frauds.

BTW, the reform rabbi you mention is in the hospital now – it seems he has a medication imbalance, and appears to be bipolar.

you antisemite,

the "Rabbi" you mentioned is faking it! and saving face! look how you "melmaed zchus" to a non observant rabbis but your rabid hatred finds no shred of limud zchus for an observant jew. So many stories you twisted and twisted when they are not true the way you writwe and not perceived that way. There are thousands of haredi rabbis. Some steal...There are the same by reform by conserva...by secular...by goyisher clergy and most impoertant by your secular ethical and moral animal fakers...google fraud and theft and see for yourselves the thousands scams performed by the goyisher society...look at the moetgage foerclosures scam as of late...you are blatant and rabid antisemite racist

[Shmarya]

Remember the hot luch program frauds? They were (and still are) widespread in haredi Brooklyn – including Crown Heights.

There are dozens of these types of scams, stealing millions of dollars from State and Federal governments.

The people who run them are familiar to you – they are haredi community leaders to this day.

and there THOUSANDS OF SCAMMERs in all different types of scams. Google them (not only charedi you antisemite) and you will all the "rational" people scamming and stealing from people and from goverment and you'll discover that the number of haredi scammers are minuscule in relation to the others.

[Shmarya]

But scammers make up a significant part of haredi leadership, which is my point.

[karkemish]

"and there THOUSANDS OF SCAMMERs in all different types of scams."

actually, it's quite simple. the haredis in general and the followers of the moschiach sheqer in particular claim to be the sole agent of the shkhina on earth!
they claim to be teachers of morality and models of being upright.
if actually they shamelessly practice theft and deceipt, they are the lowest on the human scale. no nogah or otherwise.
lilith is their mother and samael is their father.
your regular run of the mill non chareidi swindlers, admit -usually- khotey ani!
much like the famous brothel keeper in the yerushalmi whose prayer was the only one to be acceptable.
he admitted khotey ani.
what the avruhums of the world should learn from this, is that a sincere penitent brothel keeper is better than a hareidi "godol" who is a cheat, a swindler and mechaleil shem shomayem befarhessyo!
while the penitent brother keeper (who is better than the so called rabboy), is doing kiddush hashem!

[avrohom]

korcho,

"sincere penitent keeper" is the word; not the fake sanctimous holy than thou secular idol who says "i'm it" in morality and steals and scamms and DOES NO TESHUVA AND DOES NOT SAY CHOTEH ANI; the fbi has to make them say choteh ani to get them out of prison earlier.

You defend all the scum of the world by saying they mekdeash hashem regardless of whether they do teshuva; but you condemn ALL haredi and hassid by the mere fact that they are haredi thewy must be swindlers~! what piece of bigotry and racism!?1 i could imagine if i would use this kind of logic about the ethiopians and african americans what scotty and your ilk would say! but you are entitled to be antisemtic against observant jews!

[David Cohen]

Whoever would like to donate money to the Yitzchak Bitton Freedom of Speech Defense Fund, as I have, can do so at the following link:

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_xclick&business=ton112%40yahoo%2ecom&item_name=Yitzchak%20Bitton%20%2d%20Freedom%20of%20Speech%

Support justice, support freedom, support kashrut.

[Neandershort]

I had a neighbor way back when who was an extraordinarily talented swimmer. He swam for Yeshivah of Flatbush, and any event he was in was a contest for second place. He never got the recognition he deserved, and never got a chance to compete for a place on an Olympic team, because he was in yeshiva here and not in a public school in Southern California.
Several years ago a talented basketball player, Tamir Goodman, billed as the "Jewish Michael Jordan" (an impossible burden to place on a HS kid but that's another tale) faded from the scene because no Division One college would accommodate his Shabbat observance.
I thought that when God gave a person talent he was supposed to use it.

[Shulom]

Due to the general tenor of the arguments posted here, I chose not to reveal my identity, but I will say that as a producer for a Jewish media outlet in the midwest, I was able to confirm from "high placed sources" that this Yitzchak Bitton IS the same Jackie/Yitzchak Bitton of Les Variations (not the name)and Raya/Rava Mehemna fame. He suffered a terrible beating during the Crown Heights riots, and there is a very real possibility that his delusional thoughts of OU conspiracy are the result of brain damage incurred during that tragic attack.

[Kashruth Question]

Who would a viable third party investigator be?
Another kashrut house with potential to gain through discreditng OU? A person whom Bitton chooses?

Who is universally trusted across the board and whose opinion would be respected for either not supporting the conclusions of the poor dejected mashgiach or those of the big goliath OU and Le Marais?

What Judaism lacks today is a unifying voice - which leaves the road open for any one man to destroy a business and a hugs kashrus agency or leaves a poor man to be pitted inapropriately against a firing squad.

Who wants to answer that?

A mashgiach can be wrong, just as the OU can be wrong. Even though the truth and facts are out there, the public sees what it wants, reads only the lines it deems important and judges based on forgone colclusions.

V'ahavta Laraicha Komocha. Sure, what the heck does that mean anyway?

[Renee]

I am happy to know that NYS is still under the Constitution.

KOSHER-CLASH RABBI OK'D
By BILL SANDERSON
PrintEmailDigg ItStory Bottom

April 25, 2007 -- The "rockin' rabbi" is free to speak his mind about a Manhattan steakhouse, a judge said yesterday.

Brooklyn Supreme Court Justice Mark Portnow lifted his gag order against Isaac Bitton, a former kosher supervisor at Le Marais in Midtown, who in his youth was the drummer for a chart-topping French rock band.

Bitton, 59, quit his job at Le Marais in March and posted a blog accusing its chef of violating various laws of "kashrut." A kosher-certifying agency found the violations were inadvertent.

The owners of Le Marais plan to drop the suit.

[melv]

Hey check out www.amashgiachspeaksout.com, some new info was posted.

[Yossi"Joe"Izrael]

There is some truth in what you claim about Bitton being a 'victim', but to turn it into such a fact and justifying him is just a lie plain and simple. Life is about decisions. Justice John Roberts is (was) a Judas Priest fan, but he can't come to court clad in leather & chains screaming "breakin the law breakin the law". You can be a frum and respected person and a musician - MBD, Avrohom Fried, Danni Mamman, Menachem Hermann, Ari Boigneau, Lipa Schmeltzer, the Piamentas, Yehuda Glantz and on and on and on, all make a living from thier music (and yes, I am aware that all of them combined together don't make in their lives what KISS make from one album's sales. It would be interesting though to see Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley as lubavichers!). The choices were his and his alone. No one forced him to give up music.
Also you don't explain what did the OU do wrong.

[Shmarya]

"I don't know whether Yitzchak Bitton is correct or if the OU is correct, although, on the surface at least, the OU's presentation and refutation seem convincing."

Got to read closer, Joe.

Also, your grasp of the argument – i.e., that Bitton's talents have been wasted by Chabad, the people who "mekareved him – is to say the least, weak. You also fail to grasp a rather simple point, the idea that doing to Bitton what Chabad did to Bitton is assur.

Further, you want Bitton to be responsible for making decisions that he was ill informed to make. Why was he ill informed? Because he was not told the truth by those who "mekareved" him.

All one has to do is read Joe Izrael's comment to see why so many BTs have been hurt by the system, and why so many BTs leave Orthodoxy.

[Yossi"Joe"Izrael]

""I don't know whether Yitzchak Bitton is correct..."
This is NOT a quote from my comment, as well as the others. "Got to read closer," Shmarya.

"All one has to do is read Joe Izrael's comment to see why so many BTs have been hurt by the system, and why so many BTs leave Orthodoxy." I somehow fail to grasp what rock'n'roll has to do with baalei tshuva dropping out. Although it's true that there is a lot of abuse or misguidance by the "system", it doesn't absolve anyone from their own responsibilities. Some of the musicians I mentioned are BT's and some FFB. I fail to see your point. Did habad forbid him to pursue a musical carreer? You're the first to admit that they promote Matisyahu's horrid ox manure, so why would they not use Bitton in the same manner? Because there aren't enough Jewish rock fans?

I probably won't be the last accusing you of anti-Semitism, and am certainly not the first. Wipe the snort from you nose, dude.

Shmaryahu my friend, don't you start away uneasy - you poor old sod you see it's only me.

[Yossi"Joe"Izrael]

"Yitzchak Bitton's story is sad. He is one of the very best rock drummers in the world." Uh-huh.

I'm sure Rav Matisyahu Salomon, Rav Elyashiv, and Rav Belski would have literlly crucified -or at least beheaded him- had he worked as a sessionist. Actually I wonder why at all people hire Colaiuta, Gadd, Simon Phillips and Dave Weckl for their studio work. Maybe they're stupid or something.

[Shmarya]

Joe,

You wrote "Also you don't explain what did the OU do wrong."

I replied by quoting myself from the original post above: "I don't know whether Yitzchak Bitton is correct or if the OU is correct, although, on the surface at least, the OU's presentation and refutation seem convincing."