Inside Le Affair Le Marais

By now, many of you are aware of the controversy surrounding the kashrut of Le Marais, a popular French-style steakhouse in Manhattan under the kosher supervision of the OU. In brief, a mashgiach has made serious allegations against a chef and against the OU. He alleges the OU is covering up the chef's misdeeds (which are supposed to range from ordering non-kosher shellfish to bringing (and using) in dairy margarine.

The OU strongly denies the allegation and seems convincing in its refutation of the mashgiach's charges.

But there is more to this story. The mashgiach is Isaac "Yitzchak" Bitton. Yesterday, the (non-Jewish) owners of Le Marais filed a $10 million lawsuit against Mr. Bitton for defamation of character. (Here is the court filing, in PDF, courtesy of L: Download lemarais_lawsuit.pdf )

I was asked earlier this week about Mr. Bitton. Before I saw the court filing, I could not comment – now I can. Mr. Bitton lives in Crown Heights. His address in the filing is on Eastern Parkway. A quick search of the Shmais Anash list shows only one Yitzchak Bitton in Crown Heights. The address is different – a less prestigious building – but people do move. So, it seems the Yitzchak Bitton of Le Marias is the same Yitzchak Bitton I thought he was.

Yitzchak Bitton's story is sad. He is one of the very best rock drummers in the world. In France, before becoming Chabad, he led a band, Jackie and the Variations (mentioned in this Wikipedia article simply as the Variations; see 1970s before punk), which kept the Beatles out of the top spot on the French pop charts. He gave up his 'sinful' life and moved to Crown Heights. He learned, and he eventually formed a band Raya Mehemena, which was one of the best live bands I ever heard, religious or not. He played gigs and released an album that included a version of Lecha Dodi that is perhaps the single most beautiful contemporary religious song I have  ever heard.

But the haredi and Chabad worlds (apart from BTs) were not ready for real musical talent. Bookings were not frequent enough to pay the rent, and the Rebbe would not  give his blessing for the type of shows Matisyahu now does, surfing mosh pits and dancing in front of and sometimes with women. (This is a problem many BT musicians faced in the 1980s and early 90s.) So Yitzchak Bitton sold cameras for a living. He apparently went from that to serving as a mashgiach. Last I heard he still played gigs, as well.

Some of you may know Yitzchak Bitton from another venue, so to speak. There is an iconic picture of the Crown Heights riots (posted above, please click to enlarge). The man lying on the ground is Yitzchak Bitton. that's his son, now a shaliach, I believe, crying next to him. Bitton was felled by a projectile during the riots. I was told at the time that his injuries were not serious, but I do not know this first hand.

I don't know whether Yitzchak Bitton is correct or if the OU is correct, although, on the surface at least, the OU's presentation and refutation seem convincing.

But this I do know – Yitzchak Bitton is a victim. He is part of system that cast aside his special talents and left him without a viable career. At the same time, he's had to watch poseurs like Matisyahu benefit from a Chabad PR machine and leniencies in Jewish law no one would have allowed Yitzchak Bitton, or Avi Piamenta, Peter Himmelman, or many others. In other words, Bitton's stridency may be a result of this treatment, and the years of financial and emotional deprivation it surely caused.

A very wise rabbi, Yizchok Berkowitz, who was at one time the posek of Aish HaTorah, spoke at a Jerusalem conference for budding and current kiruv workers sponsored by Heritage House. Among the things he said was that if you Rabbi Kiruv Worker are going to make a person frum, you have to worry about his/her income and talents. Is she an actress? Be prepared to promote women only plays. A singer? Women only concerts. Is he an artist, a musician, a poet, a writer? If his job cannot be continued because it is incompatible with Orthodoxy, you Rabbi Kiruv Worker must find a way for him to use his talents and keep his profession, but within Yiddishkeit.

The vast majority of kiruv workers present objected. Why? To them, even a frum life of poverty is better than a non-Orthodox lifestyle. The money, the creativity – that doesn't really matter. Rav Berkowitz would have none of it, and told these kiruv workers in no uncertain terms that this was their responsibility, whether they accepted it or not.

By and large, the kiruv-outreach world, including Chabad, even including Aish HaTorah itself, does not follow Rav Berkowitz. But Rav Berkowitz is a wise man; beyond that, a very caring man. And he knew the truth, even if they did not. If you bring someone to Orthodoxy like Yitzchak Bitton, and you rob him of what makes him special, makes him what he is, you have done deep and lasting damage.

Yitzchok Bitton should be leading his band on world tours and perhaps spending his off time teaching music in Chabad schools. Instead, he sweats away in kitchens, checking lettuce for bugs. That is a tragedy. And that tragedy may be the real story behind this whole sad affair Le Marais.

More on the internal Chabad controversy surrounding Matisyahu's live performances can be seen here or downloaded as a PDF here:

Download chabad_frum_music.pdf

JEWISH TRIVA ALERT: The name Le Marais comes from a district of Paris carved out of marshland in the 12th century –  le marais means the marsh. It is now a center of Jewish life. For example, Goldenberg's famous kosher restaurant is located there. But the ever helpful Wikipedia has this interesting bit of triva to link the original Le Marais with rock music: In 1971 Jim Morrison of the Doors died in 17 Rue Beautrellis in Le Marais.

Who lived at 17 Rue Beautrellis in 1971? I believe it was the apartment of Meir Abehsera's brother. Meir – a friend of Bob Dylan and many other rock musicians, artists and writers – functioned for many years as a near-rebbe for Chabad BTs, including fellow Moroccan Yitzchak Bitton.

Comments

[anon]

The OU's post is not convincing. If they had the chef fired and made trouble they would lose the business. How much the OU was paid for its hashgocha I am sure will come out at or before this trial. My humble guess is that they only paid a fraction of this sum to the mashgichim and kept the rest for themselves.

Please get Rabbi Bitton's address and post it and ENCOURAGE your readers to donate to this man's poor defense fund.

Understand that all the professional chefs that I have ever come across (I am in the food service business for many years) that don't respect the mashgiach will look to substitute butter for margarine etc. They pride themselves on being top banana and nobody is going to tell them what they are going to put into their creation. They are artists and they are the boss.

My contact with business owners and OU is a business and a great sales organization THEY DON'T WANT TO LOSE PAYING ACCOUNTS AND WILL DO MOST ANYTHING TO ASSURE KEEPING IT. My point is that the OU should have hired an independent agency to investigate if they did not trust the mashgiach. Did I just say trust their mashgiach?

Do you mean that the OU sends out mashgichim they don't trust? They had to investigate his claim and undermined his credibility.

I read the same report and no longer trust the OU.

Send money and help find this guy a lawyer.

MONEY NEEDS TO BE RAISED IMMEDIATELY.

[Yochanan Lavie]

My prayers go out to Mr. Bitton and his family- whoever is right. The OU is generally reliable, but not perfect. It is also a big business. BTW, I think Modern Orthodox are more tolerant of lifestyle/career choices. But I'm sure that's not always the case now that they're looking over their right shoulder all the time. MO should have done more outreach- now they are the ones whose children are turning against them.

UOJ has a lot of information that makes Bitton more credible than the OU. There is a long history of scandals at Le Marais before the OU took over from OK. Levana's has no credibility as the Lubavitch owners were caught with treif years ago, a story which the OU pretends never happened. Also, Le Marais used to be a thriving Jewish neighborhood. UOJ has a link to a Wall St Journal article that it has been taken over by gays.

[none]

You can't be sure it's the same Bitton. Furthermore, how typical of you to go from a possible kashrus scandal to Chabad bashing. Will you ever grow up?

[avrohom]

you are sick with the malady of antisemitism. Perhaps the bt's feel that their lives are empty without torah and yiddihskeyt. They believe in the G-d of Israel, the Land of Israel and the Jewish people. DOn't make them for stupid people. IT would be better when you would preface all your goebell's propaganda with a disclaimer: you are a jew who converted from Judaism so people can honestly put things in perspective.

[Shmuel Bet]

Berkowitz is no tzaddik.... he may have made some good points at that meeting, but he also forces battered women to reconcile numerous times, with unrecalcitrant wifebeaters.

"DOn't make them for stupid people.'

They're not stupid. Perhaps tragic.

[anonymous]

You have a strange sense of imagination. Yea right, "Jackie and the Variations, kept the Beatles off the top of the French charts". You ought to become a fiction writer.

[Yerushalmi]

Shmarya,

I may not always appreciate your tone when you report the latest story of the day.

That said, the way in which you presented this showed of no "grudge" that people often complain that you have.

Rahter, it was mature and even keeled.

Personally, as someone who attends R. Berkowitzs shul in Sanhedria Murchevet this is very much his stance on outreach -- and like R. Yaakov Horowitz is a OU Jew that should be respected to the umptenth degree.

To the poster who alleges" Berkowitz is no tzaddik.... he may have made some good points at that meeting, but he also forces battered women to reconcile numerous times, with unrecalcitrant wifebeaters."

I personally know a woman in the neighborhood who he assisted in getting out of an abusive relationship--so I don't know why you'd allege this...

Once again great and even post Shmarya -- I believe it drove home your message louder because of the lack of rage

[Shmarya]

Yerushalmi _

Please say hello to Rav Berkowitz for me. He's a very good man. Orthodoxy needs more like him.

[YOSEF GRANT]

Shmarya,as someone who basicly never agrees with your view points ,I was pleasently surprised to read this latest post.It is indeed iresponsable to be mekarev people without also insuring that once frum they will be able to use thier skills to earn aparnash.

[Ben Qor'ha (Baldwin).]

OU is a business, says asno.n in his respond.
so are the Lubavitchers, except the later are also cut throat savages.
i have seen it happen in a city, that had kosher hashgacha for an israeli national airline, the devils kept pounding at the airline to get the account, first with the "required common denominator of chassidishe shechita" then they resorted to lies and outright slander against the mashgichim -true yerei shamayim- until they got the account.
why all this effort? to acquire more visibility and erase manifestations of true jewish orthodoxy.
people who travelled to that city by air were of the well heeled type and they wanted to gain access to their wallets, what better way than thru the stomach and @ somebody else's expenses?
same thing with le marais, it's the best and most expensive 4 toques restaurant in america. they will save no effort to replace OU as "mashgichim of record".
i don't put it past them to have planted that poor soul bitton.
a- le marais owner, will probably find those sinister clowns very open to "cooperate" if he tried.
b- orthodoxy should proclaim these clowns treif until they disband and stop this chillul hashem.

Le Marais is NOT the best restaurant. Bistro Grill is modeled the same way with French style aged steaks etc, and does a much better job with food, presentation / ambiance and profesionalism.

[Ma Rabbi]

Yitzcak biton, the musician was not felled by a "projectile" He was at that time working as the manager of the hotel in Crown Heights. During the riot, the schvartes broke into the hotel and beat him, nearly to death. As his then 12 year old son stood by helplessly.
If indeed, he is the Mashgiach in the story, I believe him as I know him to be a sincere and honest person.

[Shmarya]

That of course accounts for his lying in the street. Yrue, it does seem to be in front of that "hotel," but he's on the sidwalk, not inside. And I believe the original caption for the picture as it ran at the time of the riots was "Felled by a projectile …"

[Neo-Conservaguy]

The text reads like a soap opera, but I don't have to know the people involved to decide my feelings about this case. The simple question I ask myself about the OU is: can I trust them after they blatantly lied about the schita at Agriprocessors? Do I trust an organization of rabbis that looked me in the eye and said things to the effect of, "the PETA video is a lie, what you think you see isn't real, those animals are actually dead and walking around for a few minutes"? Can I trust an organization that brings in untold (literally) zillions of dollars for kashruth supervision to be truly neutral in such situations? The answer, sadly, is: no.

[Ma Rabbi]

The reason he was lying in the street is because they dragged him outside. I dont care what you read. I remember what happened to him.

[Shmarya]

I'm only arguing that my contention has a basis, not that it is correct.

[Shmarya]

From the NYTimes (courtesy of JE):

http://select.nytimes.com/search/restricted/article?res=F00612F7345E0C708CDDAD0894DB494D81

Vivid New Court Statements Detail Crown Heights Clash

By JOSEPH P. FRIED
Published: April 3, 1993

Several Hasidim said in the affidavits that police officers stood by and watched assaults without intervening, and some said officers said they were ordered not to use force against those engaging in the violence.

"The police did not intervene as the crowd surrounded my son and me and savagely beat us with their fists, bricks and bottles," Issac Bitton said in his affidavit. "I blacked out after I was pummeled in the head with a brick or rock."

So it would seem they were on the street – the police were not inside homes and buildings. Was the brick or whatever thrown? It seems not, so the use of "projectile" appears to be inaccurate. It is easy to see how, in the rush of the moment, the mistake was originally made.

[avrohom]

in addition, your antisemitism knows no boundaries: on the one hand you decry the state of Bitton not being able to use his talents (in a goyishe enviroment) otoh you use the same platform to blast Matisyahu and Chabad for being able to use his talents! SO what is it? YOU ARE AN ANTISEMITE!

[Avrohom]

And at the same time you are ignorant about Pianmenta : who is very well to do using his talents to bring YIDDISHE JOY to Jews and is very very popular! YOU ANTISEMITE!

[Shmarya]

No, Avrohom, you are a very poor reader.

[Shmarya]

Re: Piamenta. I knew Avi, back when I was Chabad. Piamenta does pretty well, primarily because he plays mostly in Israel, where he is based.

[Shmarya]

You might also try reading (gasp!) the linked page for the argumets INSIDE Chabad against Matisyahu.

[DK]

Hey -- Radloh over on Seven Fat Behaimeh claims the guy was a failed musician, and claims he knows this firsthand. Is that possible?

scotty, the antisemite,

i know how to read you well enough that your whole metzius (everything you write and think) is to bring false antisemitic hatred at yidden. I also know that you know how to contradict yourself in the very same sentence abee you you give another jab.

In any event: you main hatred thesiss on this antsenticrampage was the terrible misfortune that we are mekarev talented people and make them lose their talent, while at the very same bredth you must acknowledge that this is not true regarding some people, at least the fanous one s(matisyahu and piamenta) so you go on a tirade on matisyahu shteching chabad again.

but you cannot run away from the fact that these people are able to reconcile both world and be good at it.

your links have got nothing to do with this point. Obviously there are legitimate discussions whether some of the talents are used against halacha and obviously someone who beleives in the G-d of ISrael nad His Torah and knowignly came backto yiddishkeyt with love cannot stand to live the goyishe empty life that he lived in the past (similar to the lfie that you live etc.) so that is not an option. THe fact remains that espeically in chabad there are outlets for people to continue to use their talents in music in a way that is consonant with halacha (at least that is the aspiration) and your tirades are just: TIRADES OF AN ANTISEMITE!

[mamish mishige]

David:
radloh wrote that he failed in crown heights not earlierrr, c his post

[Shmarya]

"but you cannot run away from the fact that these people are able to reconcile both world and be good at it.

your links have got nothing to do with this point."

Piamenta generally within the constraints set down by the Rebbe and Matistyahu way outside those constraints.

And the link you deride? It is all about exactly this.:
http://www.geocities.com/bochrimlist/comments.html

[Hmmm]

Could it be that Lubab inc, through its 'kosher' supervision 'authority' subsidiary,the OK Kosher Labs, wants to get their hands back onto Le Marais?
I never trust Lubab inc.

[Shmarya]

This would seem to be a stupid way to go about it.

[Ben Qor'ha (Baldwin)]

an asno.nymous, who doesn't even identify himself as such, complains of antisemitism. and i ask myself: why? is he semitic at all?

[Ben Qor'ha (Baldwin)]

asno.nymous,
what is yiddishkeyt?
is it yiddish speakers flying kites?
and why should jews be concerned?

[Ben Qor'ha (Baldwin)]

This would seem to be a stupid way to go about it.
says rabbenu shmarya.

stupid or not, it is the way they often handle things. they must have a scam or 2 up their sleeve, that normal people don't think about.
first would be, to threaten the business almost out of existence. then they show the way to return back to business with their help (darki- thru me).
a person doing the business with no particular creed to uphold, read a gentile proprietor victim or a totally secular jews, have nothing to lose by embracing them.
and sometimes the devils win, i have seen it done and not only in kashrut.
mafiosi are tzadiqim gmurim in comparison!

[Chelmerrebbe]

I am so sick of people freaking out and calling Shmarya an anti-semite. Wake up! He's a concerned Jew who writes this way out of deep worry over the state of the frum world. If you penguins were at all observant (pun intended) you'd worry too. Now I'm not saying you have to agree with all that is said on this blog. I don't. I'm sure Shmarya doesn't expect you to. The fact that you are so uncomfortable with his right to express his oppinion is telling. Why are you so scared of what he sais? Why do you have to be so hatefull? If you were 'right' and 'the bigger man' you would sigh and post a respectful rebuttle. But you don't do that. You turn to deep disrespect of a member of your own holy, nation.
You accuse Shmarya of hate, but you talk about goyim as if they were animals (get to know a couple and you'll realize that they're NOT all little Eichmans). And to call Shmarya an anti-semite is an insult to the memory of our brothers and fathers who suffered and perished at the hands of real anti-semites. How quickly some of you haredim forget...

[avrohom]

ber koprcha,

you are indeed a descendant of korach who aligns with antisemites to besmirch observant jews. Anyone who aligns himself with someone who is destined (not only to raise issues, but his main itnent) to besmirch all rabbis with evil intentions is antisemite.

While he and you and other copycats of scotty, think you own the copyright to call "racists" "bigots", others have not forgotten that there are many "Erev ravs" and antsemites as our prophets said "meharssayiyich umachrivayich mimech yetzeu"! SOney yisroel that you are

[avrohom]

ber koprcha,

you are indeed a descendant of korach who aligns with antisemites to besmirch observant jews. Anyone who aligns himself with someone who is destined (not only to raise issues, but his main itnent) to besmirch all rabbis with evil intentions is antisemite.

While he and you and other copycats of scotty, think you own the copyright to call "racists" "bigots", others have not forgotten that there are many "Erev ravs" and antsemites as our prophets said "meharssayiyich umachrivayich mimech yetzeu"! SOney yisroel that you are

[Chelmerrebbe]

*Sigh*
I'd like to hear something other than baseless, hateful statements from you, Avi. Either learn to have a conversation or stop talking.

[anon]

Fantastic post from the yeshiva world blogspot response--

To 1:06

"Oh wait, you can't falsely accuse someone of something under "free speech", and if you do you have to pay."

A civil suit for slander has to meet several criteria.

1. The Plaintiff has to prove malicious intent. Considering that Rabbi Bitton's job was to protect the kashrus of the Jewish public, how would you PROVE that the motives behind Rabbi Bitton's accusations regarding the kashrus of Le Marais are PURELY malicious in intent?

2. The second thing that the plaintiffs must prove is that the accusations are false beyond any shadow of a doubt.

The owners of LeMarais cannot PROVE beyond any doubt that the kashrus accusations made by Rabbi Bitton were false.

TO the contrary since Rabbi Bitton was hired to be an agent of OU SPECIFICALLY to judge the kosher status of the restaurant during his shift his negative judgments of Le Marais or its employees represent "absolute privilege".

Rabbi Bitton was the only person there at the time of each specific incident who would be qualified to give expert testimony regarding the kashrus status of the restaurant at the time that incidents happened so there is no way to bring in opposing expert testimony to support the OU's assertion that the restaurant was kosher at the time. The whole concept of a Mashgiach is that we trust his testimony absolutely regarding the kashrus of the place. This why the principle of "absolute privilege" applies in this case.

Rabbi Bitton has only written about incidents that happened during the time of his employment by the OU, during the time when he was employed as the agent of the OU, specifically charged with the job of determining the kashrus status of the restaurant.

It is my opinion that if Le Marais feels as though they have been harmed by an agent of the company that they hired to administer a kashrus program that Le Marais should seek damages from the company and not the employee as the employee was only doing the job for which he was hired at the time, which was to judge the kashrus status of the restaurant at the time of his watch. It was the OU who hired, trained and installed Rabbi Bitton in the position of sole judge of the kashrus status of the restaurant during his shift.

3.Specific damages have to be proven. The owners of Le Marais cannot PROVE that they have suffered 10 million in damages and that it is a direct result of Rabbi Bitton's blog?

Personally I have always noted that kosher consumers eat out much less often before Pesach as the expenses of making the holiday are significant for everyone. An audit of receipts for the past 10 years since the restaurant has been open would show seasonal fluctuations in receipts. There are many reasons one could attribute to Le Marais's alleged drop in receipts, perhaps an article in the NY Times about the dangers of red meat. Proving beyond any doubt that a specific news article (such as a blog)is solely responsible for a drop in receipts is nearly impossible.

This is a frivolous lawsuit filed simply to harass and intimidate Rabbi Bitton. Surely the attorney who filed this suit knows how absurd it would be to try to collect 10 million dollars from a Mashgiah. How would you propose to do that, sell his organs???

The OU seems to be very concerned about defending a Gentile chef from allegations that might cost him his job, even at the expense of the kosher consumer. Why aren't they defending their employee against a frivolous lawsuit that he surely does not have the means to defend himself against???

March 27, 2007 4:19 PM
Anonymous said...

Bittons claims are bull. Bitton deserves to be sued.

March 27, 2007 7:04 PM
Anonymous said...

To 1:06

"BTW, did Bitton claim to have a DIN TORAH against the OU? "

The Gentile ownership of Le Marais is suing Rabbi Bitton.
Why is it relevant whether or not Rabbi Bitton has a Din Torah against the OU.

"Did he qupte which Rav advised him that "Torah law" required his lashon harah and motzei shem rah?"

Chofetz Chaim Shemirat Halashon Chapter 9 details the circumstances when one is REQUIRED to inform.

Kashrus is one of the situations in which the one who knows has a halachic obligation to inform

Rabbi Bitton had a halachic obligaton to inform/warn the public of a serious kashrus violation if he was aware of one.

It is not Lashon Hara to report a kashrus violation because the speech is l'shem mitzvah. Even if Rabbi Bitton were mistaken, his intentions are clearly l'shem mitzvah so it cannot be Lashon Hara. One of the requirements of Lashon Hara is that the speaker's intent be one of malice.

Speech can only be lashon hara if it is true. The Gentile ownership of Le Marais is suing Rabbi Bitton for slander which is a lie.

Also the Laws of Lashon Hara apply only to speech about other Jews. For Rabbi Bitton to say something negative about the chef cannot be lashon hara.

It is sad to watch a Yiras Shamayim Jew being persecuted by other Jews because he is practicing Judaism.

March 27, 2007 7:08 PM

[Shmarya]

To clarify:

1. To prove malice, all that is needed is to prove malice TO THE COURT's or JUDGE's SATISFACTION. The law does not demand an absolute standard of proof.

2. The accusation made must be proved false, but that proof does not need to be absolute.

3. Damages are assessed based on lost revenue, lost time, an assessment of what may be lost in the future, a descrease in the value of the business, etc.

In other words, the man who left the above comment does not know what he's talking about. Bitton is in deep trouble, unless he has the proof he claims to have. But that proof has not been made public, so we'll have to wait and see.

[avrohom]

shell marble,

You and your ilk NEVER want a conversation. You malign, defame, curse out all rabbis and all off sudden when we call you and your ilk erev rav you want a "conversation"?!?

[Lawrence M. Reisman]

Allow a lawyer to comment:

ANON: The Plaintiff has to prove malicious intent.

SHMARYA: To prove malice, all that is needed is to prove malice TO THE COURT's or JUDGE's SATISFACTION.

ME: Proof of malice is not a requirement in a defamation suit, unless the plaintiff is a "public figure" in which case either malice or reckless disregard of facts must be proven.

ANON: The second thing that the plaintiffs must prove is that the accusations are false beyond any shadow of a doubt.

SHMARYA: The accusation made must be proved false, but that proof does not need to be absolute.

ME: In a civil suit, the plaintiff must prove his case by a preponderance of the evidence. "Guilty beyond a REASONABLE doubt" applies only in criminal cases, and "beyond any shadow of a doubt" only applies in the blogosphere.

ANON: Specific damages have to be proven. The owners of Le Marais cannot PROVE that they have suffered 10 million in damages and that it is a direct result of Rabbi Bitton's blog?

SHMARYA: Damages are assessed based on lost revenue, lost time, an assessment of what may be lost in the future, a descrease in the value of the business, etc.

ME: Both of you are right, in that damages must be proved. However, that could be difficult, absent a showing of a reduction in business.

That's it for now.

[Ben Qor'ha (Baldwin)]

uvruhum keeps talking about antisemites. but he chose not to answer if he is semitic of any kind himself.
among anash, ve can discuss openly, hush, hush!
to me he comes across as a descendant of haman ha-agagi that sat in lishkas hagozees at one time (sipping gozoss as they went).
but since he didn't originate from a holy teepoh sruychoh, it took them no time to revert to amaleqizmus r'l!
i think he would be a direct descendant of torquemada und chmielizscky. oy oy oy r'l.
don't u think?

[avrohom]

no korach you ARE FROM A POSSUL ZERA and not mizera yisroel as you speak against tzadikey olom, against kedushas hatorah, and you do not have the quality of bayshon (a simon of a yid) you are antisemiticand you have mized in your essence zera nochri and therefore you align yourself with soney Hashem and soneh am yisroel.

[Hmmm]

Avrohom
Won't you shut up?You are such a predictable bore.

[avrohom]

and you are predictable racist antisemite. as long as you will be talking like an antisemite i will answer you likewise.

[Ben Qor'ha (Baldwin)]

holokhe: eissav soyneh leyaakov = what?

= self hating uvruhum!

[Shmarya]

I think any reader who choses to do so can look back at avrohom's comment in order and see that he is the first to throw stones, the first to be derogatory, the first to be truly obnoxious.

[avrohom]

korach i know you drink and smmoke a lot of pot, but eisav soneh leyaakov= is the sinoh of ESAV AND THE EREV RAV WHO END UP BEING MORE POPE THAN POPE!

scotty, you dont need to be einstein to see how YOU FOR YEARS are the most ANTISEMITE DERROGATORY TO AL RABBIS AND REBBES. JUST LOOK AT THE RECORD AND ARCHIVES FOR THE PAST 2 AND SO YEARS.

[Shmarya]

Yes, I admidt it. I am very derogatory to both rabbis and rebbes who enable abuse and abuse coverups, who commit crimes, who pervert justice, and who oppress the small and the weak. Guilty as charged.

[avrohom]

You mean to say that all rabbis and rebbes who you degraded here (and you have covered no small amount and you covered them from the times of the talmud) are in that category? And you have certanily performed "drisha vechakira" and heard their say in the matter and you have enough knowledge and experitse and divine inspiration to be able to know withouit a shadow of a doubt that all rabbis that you degrade without any compunctions (someone sneezes in google and you are all over yourself to degrade hassdim and haredim) to malign him immediately? SInce i do not suspect you of having ruach hakodesh i will say that you are infested with failed and false hatred towards anyone who beleives in the Divine Torah, Am HaKodesh, Atoh Bechartonu and that is the only explnation for your antisemitic canards and the "Explanation" you have just demonstrated to everyone (accusing all rabbisd and rebbe os f crimes coverup and abuse. Exactly a a copy of the protocols of zion).