Parasites In Black

Rabbi Avraham Ravitz, Knesset member from the haredi Degel Hatorah faction (controlled by Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv) of the United Torah Judaism party is interviewed in this week's Jewish Press. The key quotes:

All reports indicate a strong economy in Israel. But we also hear of great poverty.

The government has some new plans, including trying to encourage people to accept jobs that until now they didn’t want to take. And this will be sweetened with a negative income tax. If a person goes to work and makes a very low salary, below a certain level, not only won’t they have to pay income tax, but the government will give them money.

This is expected to take effect in a year. Excluded in this plan would be kollel young men. My plan is to have kollel men recognized as if they are working.

What are you trying to accomplish on this trip to the U.S.?

I was one of the founders of the city of Betar, a suburb of Jerusalem. The city has a large number of people devoted to Torah study. Many of these kollel families are now in financial crisis.

I would like to set up an international fund whereby people all over the world would contribute money to be used by these kollel families. There are 21 kollels in Betar supporting 500 families, so you can see that the need is great.

Anyone who is interested in my idea can contact me at the Knesset. I will respond to all inquiries.

Understand this well. This haredi MK wants to have kollel students receive their regular government stipend, all the welfare benefits they already receive, and also get money from the state as if they were actually working, sweeping the streets or as a laborer.

Worse, this man is in the US for one purpose – to schnorr money to feed, house and clothe haredim who refuse to work and who refuse to let their wives get the education necessary to earn a decent living.

This insanity must be stopped. It is time to end the yeshiva-kollel draft deferments and to stop the state subsidies for this parasitic behavior.

Comments

[george]

The problem is that he's going to raise millions of dollars, just strengthing their views on the backs of all Orthodox Jews.

[Harry Maryles hasid]

Seems fishy... but as long they recite she lo asani isha every morning, it can't be too bad.

[chief doofis]

Every dollar this slimeball raises here, is another dollar that doesn't go towards the most important Jewish education that exists, Elementary and Secondary. Every dollar he takes means higher tuition for American Day Schools and Yeshivot. Every dollar that tuitions are raised, means that some kid, on the religious fringe, winds up in a public school instead of in Yeshiva!!
Every dollar tuition rises, means some couple will decide to postpone their next child (or cancel it).

The dude deserves some money from us. Enough to buy a ticket 1/2 way back to Israel!!

[MaxKohanzad]

really sorry to be commenting off topic and you can delete it if you like but

i wanted to let you know that i've just published highlighed Moshiach stuff from Sefer HaSichos 1990-92 in english. (it's big and there is lots of it) lots of anti-hyper-nomian ideas.

[moshe pupik]

There is only one thing worse then being a parasite - And, that's not being honest about being one.

[chief doofis]

They should take the Sefer Hasichos and all the Moshiach stuff, and give it to the visting schnorrer Rabbi, in lieu of money

[chief doofis]

kollel guys that are really sincere should be recognized as working if they meety certain criteria
1: two weeks vacation, and not a minute more
2; eight hours a day, and not a minute less.
3: testing in all subjects (like in a real school)
4: Five years (or equivalent time to schooling) work in the community after graduation. Give back what you took out!!
Military service, even as a chaplain, counts.
5: Schools must provide bonafide curriculum, leading to a bonafide profession (eg. pulpit Rabbi, educator, Posaik, etc.)
6: Time clocks in all schools.
7: Time limits on stay in Kollel
8: All kollel members should recite the T'filla for the Medina, soldiers, and gov't, in shul, out loud!! If they feed you, say thank you!!
9: All institutions financially supported by the Israeli gov't, should proudly fly an Israeli flag.
10: When this happens, the real Messiah will arrive!

[Ahavah bat Sarah]

Well, chief, I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

Instead, they should try this: all state welfare benefits of any kind should be tied to the husband trying to find a real job, period, unless a state-appointed non-cheredi doctor certifies you physically or mentally disabled. The family's allotment should be DECREASED if the husband makes the wife work when he won't. These people make choices not to work at market-rate employment. They should be held responsible for their decisions.

[chief doofis]

I would agree with you, Ahava. However, some form of kollel, on a temporary basis, for a very select few is necessary. Just like there are doctoral students on fellowship, some very good potential Rabbis, educators and legalists are needed. Unfortunately, the way kollels are set up, any Tom, Dick and Harry, can freeload his way through middle age and beyond.

[wait a minute]

Or just stay in America and shut up. No one's forcing you to give.

If you're paying Israeli taxes, then you can complain.

Little secret: many people in Israel would rather give to yeshivos than support the outdated and bankrupt socialist kibbutz movement, or what passes for higher "education" or Tel Aviv "culture"

[Ahavah bat Sarah]

I agree, chief, but very few, if any, fellowship awards are paid for with tax funds. They are usually funded by specific organizations or philanthropic groups, not the general public. A fellowship is generally somewhere in the neighborhood of a low, but living wage, and some even have university health benefits, etc., making them less of a burden on the general fund (universities get a lot of money from private donations, alumni, sports, etc.).

And, wait-a-minute, I don't have to shut up. And if you want my money, in Israel or elsewhere, supporting you then you need to justify the expense with something besides fairy tales.

[chief doofis]

Dear Wait a minute. I'm not against the study of Torah. I study every day. I learned in am American Yeshiva until I was 23, and then became a Rebbe for several years.

The differnece is, that I got married, so I stopped learning full time, to work, and fullfil the obligations I signed on in my ketuba.

Don't equate the support of kollels with the support of Torah.

The Chofets Chaim had a grocery store, the Rambam was a doctor, Rashi, a vintner, etc.

Spend our scarce resources on our children and on our M'tsuyonim. Why are there 500 guys in kollel in Betar? What will the TORAH world have from them? How many M'chanchim, Rabbis, Chovrai Sefer, etc. will come out of the 500?

But if you took all the money thrown out on those 500 families, you could give a basic Torah education to THOUSANDS of kids.

PRIORITIES!!!!

[shmuel]

All hail Chief Doofis! Hail to the Chief!

[chief doofis]

The problem with Orthodoxy today, is its absurd disconnect with the realities of society.

Rabbis (even well intentioned ones), are clueless. Look to the abuse scandals. Do you really think that the right wing Rabbis WANT kids abused? of course, not. But when the problem occurs, they don't know how to deal with it. So, they cop out. They'll toss around lines about Mesira, Loshon Hore, etc. Not because, they are evil, not because they don't care. Simply, because they have maxed out on their limited abilities. Seventy five years of learning, and they don't know how to use a credit card. Their greatest "Avlah", is they won't admit that they are beyond the scope of their capabilities, and defer to a professional.

The Orthodox world is very top heavy. Instead of producing strong "balabatim", they are producing weak "lamdanim".

Instead of working to make Orthodoxy more palatable to an increasingly secular society (WITHIN THE CONFINES OF HALACHA), they ADD TO HALACHA, and make Orthodoxy more insular and less people friendly than ever.

The revival of Orthodoxy could be so much easier,if it were only approached logically. If I were a secular woman, visiting Israel, and someone made me sit in the back of the bus, not only would I not be interested in Orthodoxy, I would despise it!! Geniuses, if you insist on segregating the sexes, put the girls in FRONT. Show them that they are separate, but at least EQUAL!!

I could ramble on forever. Length of skirt equals piety. Ditto for color of hat. Does he wear white shirts? Does she wear a robe or a dress when she lights candles?

No overt concern for dignity, intellectual and moral honesty, hard work, moral and PHYSICAL cleanlines. All of these are mentioned in the Torah and Talmud. A Talmid Chacham with a stain on his shirt is Chayav Missa!! What Yeshiva would send ayoung man home, if he's wearing a dirty shirt? How many would send him home if he's wearing a clean BLUE shirt?

Let's get back to basics. We can be alright, IF WE THINK!!!!

[shmuel]

Keep it coming, Chief. We'll fix this broken toy of a religion yet. But it will be very hard, since our fearless leaders wear the rosiest colored glasses and see no problems at all with anything. Chile Abuse? Financial scandals? Rabbinic coverup?Intellectual dishonesty? Historical revisionism? Uniformity of dress, thought, speech and aspirations? Shh, please, we're trying to be good Jews here. Don't rock our boat.

And what exactly does Scotty due to make a living????

He will probably say nobodys business, which, says it all.

[Reb Yudel]

Yup, he's not making it our business... unlike Ravitz, who insists that its everyone else's business to feed his community.

[Isa]

Regarding:
""""And what exactly does Scotty due to make a living????""""
Does Scotty have his hand out asking for money? No course not

I once gave money to some Jewish cause through the mail and THEN they put me on the sucker list, then I started to receive tons of stuff in effect saying 'feed me we are starving' got candles, I even got a 8 x 10 photgraph of some rebbe I sent it all back saying next time you send me stuff I will not return nor will I give to you cause you will put me on some more sucker lists. When the original outfit asked for money again,I told them why they will not get anything from me again.

[Aharon]

I didn't really understand the phenomena of the kollels in Israel until I found something recently. I was reading some archives online about my ancestors in Bacau Province in the Moldova region of Romania, and in reading description of each of these towns there (and elsewhere in the region) I saw how much pride the communities took in declaring that they had a kollel and had 10, 15 men studying in it full time. This is no excuse for the abuse of this system in Israel -- for all I know this system also had a dark side for the communities in Eastern Europe. But I do understand now, that one reason this system exists and persists is because it is a source of pride and a tradition for these communities, and in some important way represent a resistance against cultural assimilation. I just want to reiterate that I don't support or agree with the kollels and that it is wrong to romanticize them as some sort of genuine expression of pious religiosity. But I did find some historical prespective useful in understanding this phenomena.

[chief doofis]

There is a major difference between a town having 10 people learning Torah (usually on a rotation) and a town such as Betar with 500 guys in kollel.

The 2005 population of Betar was 25,700. Assuming 500 kollel families, with a total population of at least 2500, that's at least 10% of the population. Could you imagine any country, city or civilization that has 10% of its population (or more) doing NOTHING!!

[MO MAN]

Sure Chief,

The good old U.S.A., now we're gonna have more free shit given away and more freeloaders when Hillary gets in.

Truly, I don't understand how this can be. I'm looking at Pirkei Avot and it says plainly the young men should get a job. So why aren't they?

[chief doofis]

Amigo, you can look at Pirkei Avot all you want, the Chareidi world ignores that. Avot is not a "lumdiher M'sechta". They prefer to learn more relevant Gemaras like the three Bava's, Yevamot, Nedarim, ,etc. Those make your mind "sharf", unlike something like Berachos, Megilla, etc., which merely teach you how to be a Jew!!

Heaven only knows how many young minds were turned off to Yiddishkeit, by that practice!
There will be a "din v'chesbon" for every child whose brains were fried in elementary school Gemara classes.