The Rebbe Is Everywhere?

Toby Katz notes:

The argument "if G-d exists even though He is invisible then anything I can imagine also exists" is laughable. 

I heard a Lubavitcher argue that way once in favor of the idea that the Rebbe is everywhere and hears and sees everything. His argument was just like that, "If G-d is everywhere and hears and sees everything, then that proves the Rebbe also can be everywhere and see and hear everything."

This kind of reasoning defies the first mitzva of every Jew, which is the mitzva to use  your sechel.

I've also heard a form of this argument before, including hearing it from senior shluchim (Chabad rabbis). It goes like this:

Now that the Rebbe is no longer confined to a physical body, is everywhere and can see everything. He helps many people at the same time, all over the world.

My questions:

1. Is this avoda zara?
2. If not, is it still assur (wrong according to Jewish law)?
3. Can anyone name any Jewish sources that support this type of belief?

Comments

[Paul Freedman]

The argument is not simply that "if G-d is invisible and exists ergo..." in the sense that one could assert that "invisible demons" are exists, etc.: rather, the assertions to the degree they are sincerely held substantively transfer the paradoxes of the invisible G-d to a) in parallel but diminished assertions regarding the ability of the departed tzaddikiim to help their adherents (as at oheliim), b) conflated assertions of the paradoxes of the "invisible" Rebbe-Creator made by Elohistiim. But you knew this.

[Paul Freedman]

I would guess that the belief in the "spirit" or "soul" of a departed being somehow present is a lasting part of Jewish folk culture. For example, the stories about a dybbuk, a possessing spirit: in one account, Isaac Luria dispatches R. Chaim Vital to interrogate the spirit that has possessed a widow; the adulterous spirit tells how he has been personally slungshot by an avenging angel from the grave into gehenna. I don't know that the belief in the ability of a blameless and pure spirit (as opposed to a cursed and despised one) to provide solace and comfort to the living is restricted to Chabad circles.

[Nachum]

I guess it's logical to say that someone's who's left this world can see everything, although that assumes God will allow him. To say he *helps*, though, is mamash (pun intended) avodah zara. Not even those who say it's OK to pray to the dead to act as a "gutte bette" would claim that.

[Chaim]

This whole Chabad issue has really raised a lot of read flags for me. I am associated with Bobov Chassidim, but I was attending a Chabad in florida for some time. All I can say is , they gave me a very bad taste of their yiddishkeit. If you can call it that.
For instance, they tell you that you can get answers and brochas from the Rebbe by writing a letter to him, read it out loud as you stand in front of his picture, then, place it randomly into one of his Sichos Books, and whatever page it is in the book, that's your answer! Pure Nonsense and actually Xtians have told me they do the same thing with JC and the NT. When I decided to change from Chabad to Bobov in my Derech, They really treated me badly. One Rabbi actually started cursing me on Simchas Torah. The Main Rabbi of the shul stopped talking to me and helping me with issues I had. It is like they were telling me silently that I am committing some henous sin for changing and that Chabad is the only true way to truth. The Rabbi publicly embarrases people who disagree with him on these issues. Many jews have left the community because of this attitude. When I start talking about the stuff I found on Failedmessiah.com, they immediately get defensive about it and start trying to convince me even more about the whole Rebbe idea. Its so crazy. They make me feel very isolated because I am different.
What is Chassidus coming to?
I think is it a big shame, not only to yiddishkeit, but to their Rebbe himself.
And, at the same time they yell " Moshiach now", while drinking bottles of vodka, getting drunk, vomiting in the shul, treating other jews like crap and calling it "kiruv".
This really makes me sick. And they wonder why I chose to stick with Bobov?
I heard with my own ears that no other Rebbe compares to the REBBE, and that Kiruv only began in other jewish communities because of the Rebbe. And my freinds, the list goes on, and on, and on. I can go on for days telling you the horror stories. Well, enough said.
My advice to those becoming Chassidic: stay away from them and get yourself to NORMAL yiddishkeit. Grow long Peyos and wear a Shtreimel. Stick to the same yiddishkeit all other Chassidim have followed for hundreds of years, in the true spirit of the Holy Baal Shem. Old wine has more class! :-)

[Neo-Conservaguy]

"...that proves the Rebbe also can be everywhere and see and hear everything."

By meditating on this quote, I've just had a seasonal epiphany regarding the hidden nature of "The Rebbe", beautifully expressed in the following deeply mystical piyut...

He sees you when you're sleeping
He knows when you're awake
He knows if you've been bad or good
So be good for goodness sake

Oh! You better watch out, you better not cry
Better not pout, I'm telling you why
Rebbe Melekh is coming to town

[Paul Freedman]

Nachum--I think that even the Elohistiim tend to retreat when challenged to a theological position that the Rebbe was/is so nullified as to his physicality that he is as a pure window or tzinor to Godliness--in a sense h/He isn't mistoveving and "helping".

[Shmuel]

Here's some advice to those becoming religious: stay away from Chasidus, the long payos,the streimels, the Yiddish, the anti-intellectualism, the garb, the show, the charade. Attach yourself to communities where Torah study is taken seriously and you can question freely anything you want to. Where is that? There are some fine baaley-tshuvah yeshivas in Israel where that holds true...and I had the privilege of studying in one...

[Paul Freedman]

...he's making a list, he's checking it twice ...

[Shmarya]

Neo-Conservaguy –

Lol!

But let's change the last line to "Rebbe Memech HaMoshiach is coming to town." It works if you sing it really fast.

"This kind of reasoning defies the first mitzva of every Jew, which is the mitzva to use your sechel."

Huh ? You never heard of 'credo quia absurdum' ?

Oh - wait - that's a Christian doctrine. Oops...

[Paul Freedman]

I'm still stuck on Chaim's "Animal 770 House" movie--the one where John Belushi squints and asks, "You know what this means, don't you ... K I R U V!"

[nu]

Oh you better not nudge
You better not cry
You better not kvetch
I'm telling you why
Rabbi Cohen is back in town