Alter Rebbe's Son Christian Convert

Ha'aretz has a stunning article on 185-year-old documents from a Russian archive proving Moshe, a son of the first Chabad Rebbe, Shneur Zalman of Liadi, converted to Christianity.

The documents also note that Moshe worked as an adviser to the Tzar for the conversion of Jews and that he suffered from a mental illness.

Chabad has consistently denied these facts for years, but the discovery of the documents has proved their denials false. Interestingly, the major proponent of the Chabad denials – and the lies made up by Chabad to 'prove' that Moshe did not convert – was the 6th Rebbe of Lubavitch, Yosef Yitzchak Schneersohn. His son-in-law, the 7th Rebbe, Menachem Mendel Schneerson echoed his father-in-law's denials – and the lies constructed to make them plausible.

Mental illness runs in the Schneerson family. The Rebbe's great-grandfather, the oldest son of the 3rd Chabad Rebbe known as the Tzemakh Tzedek, was mentally ill and excused himself (or was excused) from rabbinic leadership because of his illness.

The 5th Rebbe of Lubavitch, Shalom Dov Ber Schneersohn, the father of the 6th Rebbe mentioned above, was clinically depressed and sought treatment from Sigmund Freud.

Some speculate that the 6th Rebbe's sad response to the Holocaust was the result of mental illness and a product of a delusional thought process.

The Rebbe also exhibited delusional thinking, noticed as early as 1951 by rabbinic leaders like Rabbi Hutner. The Rebbe was incapable of accepting correction or criticism from aides, had no close friends, no hevrusa, and no family members he remained close with. He held no family gatherings or reunions and did not attend family simchot. This type of behavior is common to charismatic leaders of religious cults, a form of narcissistic megalomania. The Rebbe's delusions about 'contacting' his deceased father-in-law, about his father-in-law's status after his passing as the current leader of our generation, his continual referal to Chabad rebbes as the 'messiah' of their generation, and other delusions about his own messianic status may very well be products of mental illness.

Ha'aretz writes:

Documents have recently come to light proving that the youngest son of the founder of the Chabad movement, Rabbi Shneur Zalman of Liadi, Russia, converted to Catholicism.

For 180 years, the conversion of Moshe Zalmanovitch (son of Zalman) has been difficult for Chabad hassidim and the hassidic world in general to accept. Now, it will be difficult to ignore.

Rumors of the conversion of Moshe and conversions in other Hassidic families were rife in the 19th century, fueled by members of the Enlightenment who, in spite of their world view, nevertheless excoriated such moves.

Chabad denied the rumors vehemently over the years, presenting alternative versions of the life of the rabbi's youngest son, a married father of four. But documents, copies of which are in Jerusalem, prove the rumors true. The original documents are located in the national historical archives in Minsk, the capital of Belarussia.

Five years ago, Tel Aviv University historian Prof. David Assaf wrote an article about Moshe for the Hebrew periodical Tzion, surveying evidence proving and disproving the conversion.

Assaf concluded that the facts were irrefutable: a conversion indeed had taken place. However, he expressed the hope that in the rich trove of archives in the former Soviet Union, undiscovered documents would shed more light on the subject.

Assaf's hopes were fulfilled. Following publication of his article, Hebrew University Prof. Shaul Stempfer searched the archives, and found two files of documents that had once belonged to the Catholic Church in the area of Mohilev in eastern Belarussia. The documents, written in Russian, Polish and Latin, are devoted to Moshe's conversion. The files were photographed by emissaries of the Central Archives for the History of the Jewish People at the Hebrew University, and archivist Benjamin Lukin allowed Haaretz to look at some of them.

Letter to a priest

One of the most important documents is a letter written by Moshe on July 1, 1820. It was addressed to a Polish priest named Siodlovsky, in the Polish city of Ulla, where Moshe lived after his marriage.

The 36-year-old Moshe wrote he had long sought to become Roman Catholic.

He said the Jews had tried to prevent him from doing so by watching him constantly, beating him and threatening him. However, he wrote: "I have remained steadfast in my desire to take upon myself the true faith of Jesus Christ, to which the holy books and all the prophets testify."

The declaration was made before Christian witnesses, officers and clerks, whose names and occupations are noted in the document. They signed, certifying that the writer of the declaration was "of sound mind."

Thus, Moshe son of Zalman became Leon Yoleivitch.

Of sound mind? Opinions are divided on that point, to put it mildly.

Jewish sources, even those who deny the conversion, mainly agree that Moshe had suffered from mental problems since childhood.

On the other hand, senior Catholic figures who examined Moshe after his conversion tended to affirm the act, claiming he had pretended to be insane for fear of the Jews.

Mentally unstable convert

Subsequently, the recently discovered documents reveal, even the priests realized that the new convert was mentally unstable, and sent him to the village of Lubavitch where his brother, the rabbinic leader Dov Baer, was living. Eventually, Moshe-Leon announced his intention to become Eastern Orthodox.

He was brought to St. Petersburg where he became an adviser to the Tzar, Alexander Nicolaevich Golitzin, whose vision was to convert the Jews. After his mental state deteriorated, he was sent to a clinic for nervous disorders in St. Petersburg, where he apparently died.

Assaf believes it was Moshe's mental state that led him to convert. Were there other motives, such as anger against his older brother, or pressure from a Christian friend?

These and other questions are the subject of a book written by Assaf that will be published this year. In any case, the documents and testimony, old and new, shed fascinating light on the history of the Jewish people in Russia.

Ha'aretz has printed a semi-official Chabad response here. The basic claim is that the newly-discovered documents are fakes and that 'mitnagdim' are out to get Chabad. I suppose after carbon dating proves the paper and the ink to be about 200 years old, Chabad will fall back on its rejection of science to make its 'case.'

Comments

[I Love Hashem]

...

1. Even if this is true, above it said "that he suffered from a mental illness." Didn't you write that?

2. Back up EVERYTHING YOU SAY. Especially on this website. You can't say the first 5 paragraphs without backing them up.

3. Lets include paragraphs 6 and 7 in that "back up everything you say" thing.

Obviously some people on this website know that the Rebbe didn't have mental illness, or why else would they try so hard to back him up. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people who visit this website think that you have a mental illness.

>>>>The Rebbe was also incapable of accepting correction or criticism from aids, had no close friends, no hevrusa, and no family members he remained close with.<<<<

WHAT!!!???

See here, http://www.chabad.org/multimedia/archives.asp?AID=42106&StartList=21# , the rebbe asks if the ramp to the Alter/ Mizbeach (or the Mizbeach itself, I'm not sure) is bigger than he made it. After the man's answer, the Rebbe said, "you probably did the measurements" indicating that the Rebbe was agreeing with the man. That seems to me to be a ver clear indication of what the Rebbe accepted and didn't accept.

No close friends, no chevrusa?! HA! What a joke! Uhu, right, sure!

Seeing as I have already disproved part of your article (where you didn't back anything up), it shows that you are unbelievable when it comes to information that you don't back up.

No family members he remained close with!!?? Maybe they passed away when he was young- have you ever thought of that!!??
His Mother, Brother Wife, The Fierdikker Rebbe, etc. HE WASN'T CLOSE WITH THEM!!??

Your information is proving to be a bit delusional to tell you the truth. *Laughs*

[shmuel munkes]

I gotta hand it to you scotty - you're certainly the right person to discourse on narcissistic megalomaniacal behavior!

[Shmarya]

I Love Hashem –

What have you disproved? He was not close to ANYONE (except, perhaps, his wife) from 1951 onward. He did not attend or host family lifecycle events. He had little contact with the Shlonsky's – his cousins, who were also his neighbors and childhood playmates. He had little contact with Leibel or Leibel's family.

You obviously know little about the history of Chabad or of the Rebbe.

[Shmarya]

For sources to the above, see Deutsch's first two books. You'll see who his family was, and how much – if at all – he maintained contact with them. I imagine Deutsch's third book will have more relevant information when it is published, hopefully sometime this year.

[Paul Freedman]

Wow, Shmarya, who wudda thunk it? If you are going to accuse a Rabbi (Rebbe or no Rebbe, Tzaddik or no)--who is a big public figure and very honored over the years--of being a delusional psychotic, be a mensch--use your own name on this, ya think?

He was not close to ANYONE--as in a-n-y-o-n-e? He had no close work relationships? What, he hid in his office, scribbled instructions on the back of drycleaning receipts, and passed them under the door?

Oh well, at least there's the Rebbetzin. I didn't know that your average cult leader went in for life-long and enduring monogamous relationships; everytime I read about these guys in the funny papers there are these, not to be vulgar, harems and, let us say, esoteric personal interests, if you catch the drift; I guess the Rebbe was one of your more boring, conventional, family-oriented, shomer shabbos, unflashy, community-minded cult leaders.

If everyone who doesn't show up to family events is considered meshugas, there are a lot of folks this side of the computer screen who are in a world of hurt. And you know, you never can tell with cousins--people drift apart, different tastes, different interests, splits in the family, alliances, pressures of time, pressures of responsibility, maybe one family member, who knows, heads a major hassidic dynasty. Little stuff like that.

I dunno. I see pictures of this guy, videos, and he's always surrounded. Aides, assistants, followers, lieutenants, in front of him, to the right, to the left, maybe it gets lonely in there. Maybe it would be nice to believe in the pure value of "real" relationships extending back to some happy childhood where eternal bounds of buddyhood and vows of lifelong exchanges of confidences were established heart to heart between little Mendele and little Leibele.

Maybe.

[Harboyne]

To that who calls himself "he loves Hashem" !
Well , that's a very good start .
Reishis chochmoh , first step however , is הָסִרוּ אֶת-אֱלקי הַנֵּכָר, אֲשֶׁר בְּתכְכֶם, וְהִטַּהֲרוּ, וְהַחֲלִיפוּ שִׂמְלתֵיכֶם
Put away the strange gods that are among you, and be clean, and change your garments:
In the matter of loving Hashem , everything else is secondary !

[Shmarya]

Paul –

I suggest reading Deutsch's books and Erlich's as well.

The fact is the Rebbe behaved as I described.

Was he mentally ill and/or delusional?

I believe so. You can disagree, but the facts of the case remain.

[Paul Freedman]

Shmarya, my background is too far removed from the Chabad milieu to really contribute other than to say I think in just plain human terms you are self-evidently stretching to go from the conversion, the Rebbe's social habits, to your conclusion, given your summary here. Readers may note that a discussion is taking place on http://www.mentalblog.com/ on the topic of the conversion within Chabad terms of reference; the participants also exchange views on the topic of the infallibility of a Rebbe (a subtext here).

[rebeljew]

I do agree with Paul that Shmarya's conclusion is stretched and speculative. However, Leibel Groner once famously said that he felt that every day he knew the Rebbe less and less. (paraphrase) It would obviously be consistent that a tzadik had no "friends" in the peer sense. So SR can't go from point A to his conclusion.

I have also heard drashas that Yizchok and Yaakov (avinu) were mentally ill based on their actions.

[normal]

hmm - a guy with mental illness who leaves chabad and tries to hurt Jews and Judaism...

sound familiar, Shmarya?

[Mifletz]

Moshe joins the steady trickle of notable Jewish apostates to Christianity eg Pablo Christiani, Petrus Alfonsi, Artephius, Nicholas Donin, Abner of Burgos, Petrus Schwarz, Joshua Lorki, Johann Pfefferkorn, the parents of Nostradamus, Abraham Benveniste, Pfaff Rapp, Jacob Frank, Domenico Gerosolimitano, Paul Levertoff, the daughters of Moses Mendelssohn, Felix Mendelssohn. Aloisius Wiener, Franz Wentzel, Bonaventura Mayer, George Lazarus, Isaac D'Israeli (father of Benjamin D'Israeli), Michael Bernays, Heinrich Marx (father of Karl Marx), Hans Herzl (the son of Theodore Herzl), Franz Rosenzweig and the composer Gustav Mahler.

And in the last century Heinrich Heine, Boris Pasternak (author of "Dr.Zhivago"), the parents of philosopher Karl Popper, the grandparents of 1964 US presidential candidate Barry Goldwater, Bernard Berenson (art historian), Marcel Dassault (French industrialist), the nun Edith Stein, Chief Rabbi of Rome Anton Zolli, Moshe Rosen (director of "Jews for Jesus" in the USA), Clifford Goldstein (leading Seventh Day Adventist), Reverend Robert Weissman (of the London "Christian Jew Foundation"), musician Bob Dylan (on and off!), British MPs Nigel Lawson, Robert Adley and Edwina Currie, Bishop Hugh Montefiore, singer Helen Shapiro, Israeli atom-spy Mordechai Vannunu, Jean-Marie Lustiger (Cardinal of Paris and possibly the next Pope), the father of former US Defence Secretary William Cohen, and James Rubin (former US State Department spokesman).

[rebeljew]

normal

"tries to hurt Jews and Judaism..."

Your charge is unfounded unless your view of Judaism is so monolithic as to preclude any discussion. Hurting Judaism and fighting nonsense (whether you agree or not) are not synonymous. If they are to you, you might want to reconsider your nickname.

[Paul Freedman]

And here:

http://www.haloscan.com/comments/tzemach/111134868579535224/#42615

[normal]

to rebeljew:

so you agree with my charge about mental illness?! or at least some severe psychological problems such as deep-rooted anger, low self-esteem, and a tendency to blame and criticize others...a shrink would have a field day with this site

And re: your main charge

The Greeks and mityavnim thought they were helping Jews and Judaism.
The Russians thought so too.
So did Herzl when he suggested mass conversion to Christianity [when he saw that wouldn't work, he came up with Zionism - look it up]

Everybody thinks they are helping.

Helping is made by building, not hatred.
Fine, leave Chabad. Fine, point out that he is not the Messiah. But get a life. Don't constantly criticize everything Chabad and Charedi. This is helpful? This improves the Jewish people. Heck, most of it is way way assur [see Chafetz Chaim for more]

If you want to help, improve and build.
If you want to destroy, keep doing what you is doing

[Paul Freedman]

rebeljew: one clarification: from the sources cited, Reb Maishe appears to have been "strange"--disassociative and hyperactive, while to an outsider Mendel seems phlegmatic (e.g., communal religious claims aside--rationalists think the whole idea of Tzaddikot is nuts--you wouldn't think he was "peculiar" from his mannerisms) and, for that matter, a cousin several times removed from Maishe to begin with. Yet Shmarya used the tzurris of the one to get to the other--IMHO his focus (polarizing) skews the threads.

[rebeljew]

normal

Using the handle "normal" and launching critical attacks on someone else as mentally ill would also be an interesting study in psychology. Shmarya's line of reasoning is well documented on this site. Follow the "Scandal of the Rebbe's indifference" link and the comments attached and you will see why he feels as he does. You may not agree, but there is nothing ab"normal" about it. Shmarya was a Chabadnik and an activist. The Rebbe did something that he found repugnant and immoral from his viewpoint. He felt betrayed, tricked, and angry, that he had devoted years of his life to a paragon of mrailty who turns out to have a major flaw in his estimation. Maybe you can argue that he overreacted, that he was not a richtike chasid (in having his own value set rather than those dictated by the movement), that the Rebbe was right and he was wrong or whatever. But his reaction is not mentally ill. I have to agree more with Paul's last conclusion.

I agree with this setniment of yours:
If you want to help, improve and build.
If you want to destroy, keep doing what you is doing.
However, I would add that sometimes destroying is part of building, and it is only that aspect that is forbidden as work on Shabbos. We need to get past the destroying stage and on to rebuilding stage. Part of what has to be gone at the end of that stage is the nonsense that is driving the Charedi world in general and Chabad specifically, in our days. Then Chabad can get back to building.

[I Love Hashem]

Shmarya-

You were the Rebbe's Chassid. When you saw the Falsha letter you decided he was delusional. How could you be one of the Rebbe's followers without being a tad "mentally ill" yourself?

[normal]

for rebeljew

Two things

1) this web site and shmarya's attitude are way way past normal. I have never seen such a hate-filled, critical, angry attitude. Yes this indicates real problems. Believe me, I've dealt with angry people. Get some help, S - work out your anger. Maybe your dad beat you up or didn't say he loved you or something. Go to an Anger Management seminar, get a punching bag, whatever.

Hatred this deep doesn't come from a 'destroying to build' approach. It comes from hate.

2) if you really care about Torah, then follow it: most of the stuff on this site is full of issur deoraita;s: lashon hara, motzei shem ra, sinat chinam, etc. Where is there a heter for this? Name a posek, Rabbi, whatever and sources that say this is ok.

Rebeljew, why are you defending hatred?

[rebeljew]

Independent of the views expressed here, SR is part of the grand Jewish unified world that you would build. In all politics, there are watchdogs. We can depend on them to go miles beyond the argument, so that when we see facts taht they have examined, we know that they have gone through them thoroughly.

You want to find "gedolim" that support this site halachicly. Find any anti-Chabad posek and present him with this site. I don't think he would have a problem.

Lashon Hara, motzi sem ra, etc. are empty epithets to through at those we do not agree with. You must consult the Rebel's Dictionary
http://rebeljew.blogspot.com/2005/06/rebels-dictionary.html

[shmuel munkes]

yeah rebeljew but do you know the difference between a watchdog and a lapdog?

[Neo-Conservaguy]

Hey Paul, have you actually spent any significant time with any Chabad folks? Have you talked with them, learned Torah with them - or perhaps Tanya, of course, davened with them, eaten with them, argued with them...? I doubt it, because if you had, you would know that Shmarya's merciless criticism sometimes hits the mark. Some - and it's very important to stress that word - some of the members of Chabad are really out there and some of the dynamics of the organization are deeply disturbing. Yet, for all of the problems, they do kiruv like no other group, teach the poor local folks as well as the rich celebrities they milk for money, and have many members that in my experience are deeply loving, caring human beings.

So too, is my experience with Shmarya's writing. I have issues with it sometimes; it really does seem full of tremendous personal anger at times - many times. And yet, there is real value to looking past the angry tone and thinking about the facts that he presents for various contentious issues. How many other folks that know Chabad from the inside-out are willing to take them on? How many well-educated Jewish scholars (outside of the Conservative movement's JTS) do you (currently) see taking the position that the halakha must - MUST move forward with changing times and find a rational balance of old ways and new ideas? Certainly not some other "normative" Orthodox blogs that would cheerfully censor the very criticism you've laid on Shmarya's doorstep!

[sam]

YOU ARE PLAYING WITH FIRE!!!

[normal]

I never said Gedolim I said any Rabbi etc and since this site is (a) issurei deoraita and (b) full of hatred of all Torah authorities, no one would okay it. This is clear. If you think there is a leg to stand on halakhically,

Ah so now it is clear - the ends justify the means.

I can spew hatred if I am write and my goal is to fix a broken world.

Sorry guys, trayf attitude and no mekor in Judaism.

We recognize the problems and fix them

You are way way off the mark

[Ariel Sokolovsky]

B"H
My comments on this on http://www.Mentalblog.com
Tzemach I don't get it why Rabbi Kamenetzky's arguments http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/603280.html are so not convincing to you that you have to use "blah , blah, blah" to link to them . After all it's well known that Alter Rebbe's last name was listed as Boruchov (his fathers name was Boruch) Miteler Rebbe had last name Shneuri and only Tzemach Tzedek's generation started using Schneersohn so how could Alter Rebbe's son write a letter signed by the last name that was 1st used a generation later?
Besides the fact that all of us know how "bribable" Russian bureaucrats are it was not and isn't too hard to plant such forgery in the archives.
Why some of you guys lend more credence to a dumb argument if it's made by someone with PhD next to their name especially you Tzemach and other Russians who like to brag (see here for example: http://www.mentalblog.com/2005/06/direction-of-lubavitch-is-it-mapped-by.html ) about your critical thinking and not taking things for granted?
If you continue this way next thing you are probably going to believe is that Yudel Krinsky is recognized as Moshiach after all there is the copy of the official "Psak Din" document right here http://www.yudelkrinsky.com/recognized.html

**************
As to Shmaryas allegations about the Rabbeim being "mentally ill" chas vesholom see what a Psychotherapist writes :
http://www.jhberke.com/tale_2orphans.htm

[rebeljew]

normal

I see why you are "normal". Blathering platitudes must be easier than thinking.

No one approves hatred ... unless of course it is directed against the right people, like nonfrum clergy, misnagdim, Modern orthodox, the Moshichistim (or anti-Ms, depending on which side you are on) ...

[Paul Freedman]

Neo-Conservaguy--I've known some Chabad guys, some were nice, some shlichiim were jerks and wouldn't let me into their house (tumah), but, no, the shul I don't attend IS Conservative, not Chabad. :-)

My family in Cincinnati and their friends are very big participants and promoters of local and national Conservative institutions and I think there is a lot of movement for growth in Conservative/Conservadox. Personally, I've never said I am Orthodox or even observant--my point to begin with is that the Jewish community can afford heterogeneity and that Shmarya's Chabad-bashing is dofka superfluous to any proposed project he might be considering for modernization of Orthodox belief. After all, literalist belief in a 6000 year old universe is not unique to Chabad or the Rebbe.

I would tell any enthusiastic mentor of Conservative chinuch that they are doing a very important and very big thing. And I would tell any enthusiastic Conservative activist to stay with the movement and consider long and hard before adopting congregational Orthodoxy (even Shmarya's authentic Orthodoxy in the making) because of a desire for "authenticity".

[I Love Hashem]

There are bad people from Chabad and good people from Chabad. This doesn't reflect whatsoever on the Rebbe's personality. If he was able to attract Presidents of the United States, Prime Ministers, and the like, obviously there is something non-mentally-ill about him. It is quite clear that if the Rebbe Shlita got so much attention by such prominent people, than Shmarya, in his fruitless attempts, is the mentally-ill attention seeker.

[Conserva-Girl]

Mifletz, one glaring ommission in your list of people that we should (mostly) be sad to have "lost": Rapper "50 Shekel". Our loss is, ironically, our gain ;-)

[the swartz be with you !]

I love Hashem, You love Hashem , We all love hashem ! (hopefully avinu shebashomoyim) .
" If he was able to attract Presidents of the United States, Prime Ministers, and the like, "
attract ? one does not have to be very sharp to see thru this massive excercise of deceipt .

Rabbis a,b,c,d or most likely a group , in territory X of the franchise , will go to Y. Rabin z'l , Shimon Peres , Margaret Thatcher , Aviezer Ravitzky , Rabbi Sacks , Joe Lieberman , Ronald Reagan as the case may be (let's call them the objective ) and will stick a microphone in their face and : life , camera , action ! , as usual , a,b,c,d would (mis)represent themselves in advance as representative of the "largest jewish group in the world" , the former rebbe "is the greatest jewish sensation , Oh yea , greater than Moses , a veritable Messiah !".
They will likely hand to the objective being filmed a statement written in advance .

Hey , they are quite transparent by now !

So , no ! Mr/Ms you love hashem ,
he did not attract attention
they -the objectives- were forced into it with a microphone down their throat parroting pre written messages .
Margaret Thatcher , did not study Tanya !

[Athol]

I am not a Lubavitch but i wonder why you are so bitter about them and Rebbe Schneursohn. Because people have different ideas doesn't mean they are mentially ill. Also most leaders in religion have to keep a certain distance from their followers as do teachers of children. I have met many lovely Lubavitch people and Rabbis and I have also met some weird ones but that is the same with everygroup I have ever met. i am sure the Alter Rebbe's son Moshe did suffer some mental distress because it is never easy to go against one's family and disappoint them in such a drastic way. He probably suffered terrible guilt for hurting his family so much. I am also sure Moshe was a sincere seeker of truth that followed where his heart led. I also don't see the big deal that the Schneursohn descendants are mainly not frum today. That shows that Lubavitch respect a persons free will and don't force people to adhere to their veiws. many people who are now secular have religious grandparents or great grandparents- what is your point. Lashon Hora is a terrible thing and I suggest you sit quietly and examine your conscience in prayer and see within your self for the root of this bitterness you seem to habour towards others who are just trying their best to live in a way they feel is true. Its not my way but I do respect what the Lubavitch are doing. You should read the book "the Rebbe's Army" it is very informative and gives one a clearer picture.

Cheers Athol

PS Most families especially today with the drug problems have family members who have mental problems. I find it distasteful that you blacken a whole family because some of its members may suffer mental illness. this is a very uncharitable thing to do.

[I Love Hashem]

the swartz be with you...

I was talking about actually visiting him. Not talking about him.

[Paul Freedman]

This is a story told to the author of "The Rebbe's Armies" by friends of Sharon--Ariel Sharon comes to the United States and arranges for a visit to the Rebbe. At the end of their visit the Rebbe tells Arik, "Do not get on the plane you were going to return to Israel on tonight." So Arik stays over one more night. The plane is hijacked to Algeria by terrorists. So the Rebbe is asked, "If you knew the plane was going to be hijacked why didn't you say it in public and save all the victims of the hijacknig their misfortune?" The Rebbe says, "I didn't know about the hijacking. I just knew Ariel Sharon could not get on that plane."

[Shmarya]

The actual story is the Rebbe asked to see him the next day. Sharon demurred because he was leaving for Israel. Hasidim convinced him to stay an extra day because, if the Rebbe wanted to see him, it must be important – necessary – for him to stay. Sharon relented and stayed. Later, when asked about the hijacking, etc., the Rebbe said, "I didn't know about the hijacking …" Th eRebbe never told Sharon he was in danger, never demanded or insisted Sharon stay. He just asked to see Sharon the next day – no more. Did the Rebbe know Sharon was in danger? Did he "know" that Sharon must stay an extra day for security reasons? There is no proof from the Rebbe's actions ***PRIOR*** to the hijacking. Further, if the Rebbe had sensed danger and had warned Sharon, hundreds of people could have been spared the danger of hijaking. The Rebbe did ***NOT*** do so. Sharon's failure to get on that plane may have been a miracle, but there is ***NO*** proof the Rebbe played anything but a bit part (that may very well have been unintentional) in its unfolding.

[Paul Freedman]

Shmarya, at first I liked the book's version but there is something even nicer about this one, the whole relationship between the Hasids insisting Sharon stay because "if the Rebbe wanted to see him, it must be important," that's a nice touch...

Look, as an altercocker apikores I thought it was a nice tale and did at least second the point that big deals and big shots were in the custom of "actually visiting him", not just "talking about him"--but, who knew, could anything remotely like this actually happened--Sharon? not getting on a plane because of the Rebbe? and the plane is hijacked??! Maybe, somebody in Chabad actually knew the basis for this anecdote that had made its way from mouth to pen to research notes to transcription to the final draft of the book, but, as a skeptic, I was doubtful that there would be any confirmation of this incident.

The book does use the words "I didn't know about the hijacking" in recounting his reply "I didn't know about the hijacking, I only knew & etc."--which is the tantalizing to me--the "I didn't know" as much as the "I only knew" even in the version circulated in the book. To me, that's the touch. It reminded me of the tale about the Baal Shem Tov when he sent a disciple to see if an expected visitor had arrived in a nearby village ("Of course I could look in the Holy Zohar for myself, but it's always good to get a second witness.")

[Moshe]

Oh come on!!!

You really believe russian documents that he wanted to "accept the true faith of yoshke".

Come on, don't be ridiculous. You have got to be pretty gullible to actually believe what is on those documents is what really happened.

christian documents don't prove a thing.

[Mendy]

Ill! Mentaly Ill! Tha's the apt term for the host and patronizers of this repulsive purgotorious web domain. It is futile to even allow thsese discussions to advance further. Doing so, just adds more fuel to the hot burning coals of this himmel geshrei.

To conclude "Yitamu chataim min haaretz urishaim od aianam ,bimihayra biymeinu"

[((((((((((((((((((((((((((YAWN))))))))))))))))))))))]

"To conclude "Yitamu chataim min haaretz urishaim od aianam ,bimihayra biymeinu"

Dan lekaf zechus! The correct response is "Avinu malkainu, shlach refuo mehero lekol cholei amecho, veShemarya besoicham!"

This guy is missing so many screws that he has a restraining order which keeps him from going within 100 yards of a Home Depot or similar so that he does not empty out the stock!

[poor you]

Whoever made this site is PLAYING WITH FIRE. Dont mess with things you are too unstable to deal with..

Hashem should have Mercy on you.

Playing with The Lubavitch Family is Serious.

[sarah leah]

I just think its interesting that his son converted. And that there is a history of mental illness in the family. And that the Alter Rebbe was aided by the nazis to get out of Warsaw. And that he didn't campain the release of Jews being murdered in the holocaust, but did get his book collection shipped over.
Interesting
there are things you don't know about 'till you stop denying and start looking.